The original 2 tenths of an inch should have been more than acceptable for a bicycle stem. I've gas welded 4130 aircraft tube frames to .3 tolerance and never failed an FAA airframe alignment inspection. Good on you Mr. Brodie.
I just brazed a new bar clamp onto a Kona Velocity quill. stem that I shortened...and I completely eyeballed the orientation, not even factoring in brazing distortion, and I can't imagine my accuracy is even close to Paul's...and if its off, you would never know riding or even looking at it 🤷♂
Obsessive disorders are difficult to deal with on both sides of an interaction. I think you dealt with it well by refunding the purchase and letting the customer let go of the mental impasse.
@@paulbrodie The customer is always right....EVEN WHEN HE IS WRONG. I confirmed the angle to be 0.2 degrees (using 0.014 in over 4 in). Now, take a 44cm handlebar...the difference in height between corresponding points at each extreme would be 44cm x tan(0.2) = 0.15cm or 1.5mm. That is ridiculously small. Assuming he uses a wrap on his bars, the compression in his grip or uneven wrap could introduce that much difference. Not to mention the bike's stem tube alignment in the frame could easily be out by that much. Kudos Mr Brodie! You made one hell of good stem! Sadly, sometimes people are just never happy if something is not perfect (in their perception) - which is a poor reflection on them especially when their own error in measurement was the problem. A construction spirit level is a joke in machinist terms. Plus, the photo clearly shows the bubble offset to the left - so not even level in his measurement. Heavy sigh! Again, kudos to you Sir!!! No legitimate returns for 39 years and counting 👍
Brian, thanks for watching and commenting. I liked what you said. I did enjoy making this video, and I did try not to assign blame... just tell the story! Happy Holidays!!
@@physicsguybrian Original quote was 'The Customer is always right...in matters of taste' Basically if the customer likes purple top hats and cowboy boots, don't tell them they are wrong, try to do the best you can to serve that requirement. However it doesn't apply to everything.
0.2 degrees error over 630mm bar length would be 1.1mm at the bar ends, one side positive and one side negative. As you so diplomatically pointed out, your customers setup was meaningless for detecting errors of that small a magnitude. Kudos to you for taking the high road dealing with this fellow and producing such high quality work.
I'm not going to check your math but thanks for adding in that info, I agree 1.1mm at each end is pretty minimal, I'd guess most bikes are riding around with that much or more.
I got the same result and came here to say that, so instead I'll just say I confirmed this (i.e., the difference from one end to the other would be just slightly more than 2mm).
Erik, this is the first time in my life that I have had curly hair, and it might not last, so I am going to take advantage of it. That's what Chemo can do to a guy like me....
2:38 Alex's measurement ASSUMES his handlebars that are in his measurement setup are perfectly aligned in all 4 bends. He also assumes the quill stem top face is perpendicular. Most people would try some variables like other bars etc.
I guarantee you that if you measured Alex's bones from his back through his shoulders, to his arms, you'd find more than the 2.35mm of dissimilarity between one side of him and the other than that fourteen thousandths of an inch adds up to at the end of his 660mm bars.
Hi Paul. You should start an auction for the Re-aligned stem. you will probably be very surprised as to what people will bid to own one of the last Brodie stems. Love your work and your videos. Merry Xmas Paul and Mitch.
I have frequented a dozen German internet forums over the years, and there are always a bullying group of members who try to put others down. UK is right up there, too
Funny you say that, I was watching a youtube show on Military Tank restorations and they pointed out that German production was much slower than the Allies because over-complication, part complexity and overly strict tolerances, so much so it created shortages that affected their ability to fight (also didn't help that they also used forced labor)
For those wanting to do their own calculations, Tan .2° * 630mm = 2.199 mm. Others have pointed out that since the bar is clamped in the middle, half of that would appear as positive on one end and negative on the other end. For reference, 1mm is approximately the thickness of an American dime. Alex made a problem where one didn't exist.
I have an aluminum threadless Answer stem from (probably) the late 90's, it has a visible misalignment rightward. To get the handlebar perpendicular to the front wheel the stem is about 91° from the right side of the bar and 89° from the left Edit: I'm pretty sure I came from the return bin at Synchros when they were in Richmond, works great
A big box carpenters' level in a mechanics vice on a wooden work bench, that's cutting-edge precision there. Sadly, Alex sees nothing wrong with his setup.
Indeed he does not. Even sent a photo trying to prove his argument but the offset bubble on a very low precision level discredits him completely and that is entirely apart from his terrible setup. Heavy sigh!
Lol. Retired aircraft QA tech here. If ANYONE tried to complain about a part we made, with a level, ON PAINT, IN A VISE, well.... if it was an employee, they would be fired on the spot. Period. If it was a customer............. give them a replacement, go away now, never come back.
I loved the eyeroll when you hit 3thou and called it good. Originally Alex bar would have been up 1mm and down 1mm on the other end on a 60cm handle bar. Probably get that error on your grips🙄. Some people are never happy. Had Alex installed it in his bike he would have never known.
I was sent to H-D factory for training and a factory tour in the mid 70's and that's exactly how they corrected frame alignment after welding the frames :)
That's life, Paul. Amazing to see the strength in the stem. You should frame it and put it on the workshop wall. Like a first dollar made kind of a thing. All the very best to you and Mitch.
If you have to use instruments to detect the misalignment, it's good enough for a bike. I raced a whole season with a slightly bent handlebar and didn't notice until I took the bar off and discovered it didn't sit flat on the bench. People are more complicated than machines
Jonathon, it's true! People can be complicated, and sometimes fussy too... And peoples bodies are rarely symmetrical and almost never perfect. Thanks for commenting!
I would've been impressed if you had gone 40 years with no returns😮. I think that fine piece of Brodie Engineering needs to be visible in every video going forward. Thank you for taking the time to film, edit and upload so others can watch and learn.
Alex clearly doesn’t understand how to measure things. Metrology is a well established study and practice which Alex hasn’t studied or practiced! Regardless your story of this stem is instructive for anyone watching. In solidarity I’m wearing my “It’s Milling Time” t-shirt today!
Great video. I’d happily buy that stem, 1.1mm off or not. I wonder what Alex’s method is for aligning his stem to his front wheel? Surely not the usual squint and “yeah, that looks good, let’s go ride” method.
Alex probably forgot to mention he's a 240 lbs one-armed Ironman. Pure speculation, but a solid hypothesis. I imagine it was rider-induced misalignment. ...or you messed up and he caught a minor mistake after 40 years of admirable work.
Hey Paul, if Alex doesn’t want that stem anymore, can I buy it please? It’d be pretty special to be the proud owner of the only Brodie stem to receive extra special alignment treatment in 39 years!
This is a tricky one, since it is almost entirely in the customer's head. Most people have no idea how good or bad (usually bad) their frames, stems, forks really are, and that ignorance is bliss. The second you measure it, then you are done for. Even a CNC's stem is going to be only marginally better than yours. The bend on the bar is most likely out a mm or more on each end. I think you were right to take it back rather than fight the customer, but I also agree that stem is "to an acceptable standard".
Now that stem its "James Webb comply" ! I admire your work soo much but also that "Germany thing" to persuit the perfection and detail, I dont take the situation as a personal in any way, I guess that stem deserves a frame and a special place in your shop. congratulations for your confidence in your quality of craftmanship.
Customers. I've been in business (nothing to do with bikes) for 20 years, and learned a long time ago that pleasing 99% of them takes no effort at all if you take pride in your work manufacturing things. Most of the problems the remainder have are easily put right, but the few that are left will never be happy no matter what you do, so putting a disproportionate effort into trying to please them is not worthwhile, as you still can't win every time. I'd have thought it would be worse in a hype driven industry like bikes, full of people swearing that insignificant changes like 1 degree difference in head tube angle or a 10mm change in bottom bracket height, etc, typically in bike reviews, transforms the performance of the new model vs the old give people unrealistic expectations.
As Jody(welding tips n tricks) described one of his former bosses, " he was a dictator without the tator."@@paulbrodie Can't please ALL of the people all of the time. Sometimes a person has to fire a customer. Keep up the GREAT content.
A trick I do when straightening things is to use a dial indicator to measure the bending moment. Then I can apply the pressure while watching the dial. I start at maybe .020". The metal springs back, maybe to .000, I put pressure till it reads .030", it springs back to .005". So if it's out .013" to start with I got .005" towards straight. I'll try .035". This may bring it another .005" or more depending on the metal. Doing this with a dial indicator I can rapidly approach .001" of trueness. I've used this method for pushrods, fork tubes, circle track race car axles, triple trees, and aligning similar shaped objects like what you are doing. The circle track axles wouldn't move until I measured 1/8" or more on the dial indicator. I blew apart a few V blocks doing those until I used solid steel blocks with a radius that match the axles diameter. Pretzeled my 20T press once..
I run a coffee shop in India and the little kids around the back of our shop ride around on bikes with no head bearings, broken spokes and wheels so misaligned that the new brakes I fitted for them are literally hit or miss on the rims. Im sure your client would have been fine with .2 degree misalignment on his handlebars.
I concur with the 0.2 degree angle given the 4" quill length and with a 660mm bar that means one end is 1.16mm higher than the mid point and the other end is 1.16mm lower, meaning there is a height differance of 2.32mm between the ends of the bars. I put it to Alex, he would not even notice that in the real world, let alone being eben able to see it...
lets just hope Alex doesn't start measuring his house. I worked in the building industry - general acceptable tolerance was 10mm. Way better than my 1930's house which doesn't have a single room than is square! It could destroy a person who worries about accuracy.
Very interesting story! some people cannot be pleased no matter what. On the other hand, we've leaned today that Brodie stems have a generous 39 year warranty! 😂😂 Thanks Paul!
Hallo Paul, ich habe das gerade erst gesehen. Die Geschichte ist einfach nur zum fremd schämen. Peinlich vor allem die öffentliche Diskussion darüber in einem Forum. Danke für eure tollen Videos. Immer wieder ein Genuss, dir über die Schulter zu sehen. Alles Gute!
Hi Paul & Mitch... wishing you guys a great Christmas and a healthy, happy New Year. Thank you both for your amazing videos, compelling projects, and for teaching me how to do things properly. Brilliant!
I've got numerous brand name aluminium handlebars that are bend differently each side, some are 12mm height difference when on full lock with grips touching the top tube
Mr. Brodie, you are the man. Tolerance and degrees, predetermined by the fabricator are dialed in and if a customer isn't pleased, to quote Kurt Vonnegut, "Go take a flying '"f" at a rolling donut." Makes me sad that you even bothered to respond, but well played on your part. You don't need to defend your work. I rarely engage on this level, but "F" that guy. It's not a fighter jet, it's a bike stem...a hand crafted beautiful bike stem from a master of his craft.. Go Paul and Mitch, keep moving forward.
I won't comment on anyone's expectations of perfection, but I suspect a lot of alignment issues could be found were one to properly measure components of any given bicycle. Especially frames and forks, and they still ride just fine. Staying together is more important.
It was interesting watching you making guitars as my brother makes and restores them for people. Over the years he has come across a couple of customers who will never be satisfied. One lived quite close to my brother and was slagging his work off on the net so I went with my brother to this guy's house to refund him and take the guitar back. The guy looked totally panic-stricken and refused to accept the money back deal. He obviously just liked slagging people off on the net.
Spirit levels are good for laying bricks ,I would have more faith in your experience and the digital readout. Anyway right at this moment I’m involved in a debate with my wife and son in regard to how straight our Christmas tree is aligned to the floor. Speaking of which Merry Christmas to you Paul and Mitch , thanks for an enjoyable able ride during the year. Everyone else out there stay healthy and safe . 🎁🎁👍👍
The summer that I worked in a bike shop in Edmonton, buddy comes in with his track bike. He's headed off to England for some higher level track racing after Edmonton hosted the Commonwealth games. We just wanted to look over his bike to make sure that nothing was amiss before he left. I first noticed that his seat wasn't level, it was tilted side to side. On his seat post, he had one Campagnolo support and one Zeus support. Visibly wonky, buddy didn't notice at all. Then we checked the frame, it was twisted from, amongst other things, riding over the wheels of someone who crashed in front of him. Measurably wonky, buddy didn't notice at all. I can't imagine that any of the bikes that we raced were actually straight (try discussing "straight" with an engineer or a physicist), how would we know? Those bikes went to the Olympics and got medals, but were they straight? I doubt it. They were straight enough.
That's a great story, and probably quite true. Usually, something has to be quite wrong before a Lot of people notice. Most people just don't look that hard. Thanks for commenting...
I always think when I ride with just one pannier that the bike is going to be leaning, and in fact I never notice it. (I'm sure the ratio of the weight of whatever's in the pannier to the total system weight [ = bike + rider + payload] is pretty small ... )
Just woke up at 3am here in Japan and started my day watching Paul and Mitch! Before making custom bicycle frames, I learned a lot from a tailor on how to take measurements to make a suit. He told me that is really very hard to find someone with both shoulders in the same size, in my opinion, 0.2 degrees will not do any difference in the fit position.
I have no doubt it's physical straight. Somethings can appear twisted bowed or crooked. I didn't even know what that was for until several minutes in. Forgive my ignorance
My first thought "the guy is measuring paint" lol Makes you wonder how uniform thickness of paint job is? Then if he noticed something off while riding it, how accurate are his handlebars? On the other hand, .0135" seems a lot of tilt in 4". That translates to .088" over the length of 26". So less than 1/10 of an inch difference between the ends of the handlebars. He just might feel it... maybe. But it does go to show you about checking things for straightness after welding or brazing should be part of the program. Building mass spectrometers back in the 80's had some crazy specs we had to adhere to. :)
is the stem tube (vertical bit) machined true on both ends, or a cleaned up saw cut? a little bit there will show on the 'level' test. even if the bore is dead on 90 degrees to the handlebar clamp tube.
I think what you call the "stem tube", we refer to as the Quill Tube... The top is machined on a lathe, and the bottom is saw cut , and belt-sanded smooth to the highest QC! Hope this answers your question....
German´s are superior when it comes to precision. No BS, just German´s bein German.... What´s not to like And agree with Brodie at the same time, awesome builder and gentleman
I used to work with some Germans in high-end cycle distribution. They almost bankrupted their supplier (a very high-end frame brand) by returning anything which did not match EXACTLY to the pre-production approval sample. These frames were colour anodised, so many frames were returned for the colour being just slightly different to the initial pre-prod sample - when most us understand full well that coloured anodising never has perfect batch consistency. Well, the conclusion to my story is that due to poor descision making by these Germans, the entire supply chain went bankrupt. Alex may well be one of the Germans who I used to work with!
Good story David. There is a fine line between being reasonable and unreasonable, and knowing where the balance is is a good thing, I believe. Being nit-picky and hurting your supplier financially does not sound good to me at all...
@@paulbrodie It would seem that being nit-picky is a sport in Germany! Another thing I learned whilst working with Germans is that "German efficiency" is a myth. So, I wound up working for a related carbon bike frame brand. It was British financed, German designed, managed and operated (yes, by the very same nit-picky ones) and Taiwanese produced. We were pioneers in the industry; the world's first exclusivly carbon frame brand which was distributed globaly, and the originator of the modern tapered steerer. By 2005 we had a range of road trames. TT/Tri models and an XC MTB frame - all very innovative and high quality. We worked with a well known (in Germany) freelance cycle-industry technical consultant who insisted that each individual frameset must be checked in Germany for Stiffness-To-Weight and the specific result logged against the serial number and maintained on a database for reasons of QC accountability for insurance liability and warranty reasons - despite no other comparable frame brand doing this. The consultant provided the testing equipment necessary, at 30,000 Euros. The testing ended up taking a minimum of 45 mins per frameset, as the proceedures had to be carried out three times and the varying results averaged to give specific values for the record. This meant that one staff member in Germany did nothing but STW testing, so the cost was 30,000 Euro initially for test rig, and then about 3,000 Euro per month as additional internal labour costs. Can you guess what happened to that brand? Yup, bankrupt as well. There were other serious issues contributing to the business failure, mostly related to poor descision making in Germany. It was often a case of noses being bitten off to spite faces, and ridiculous petty grievances - just as with poor Alex, who has (quite rightly) been publicly embarassed and now has no stem! I'm not telling the name of the failed UK/D/TW carbon frame brand. Can anyone guess?
David, thanks for the continuation of that story. It is hard to be in business, even harder to be in the Bicycle Business, but still so many people and companies have a desire to make it in the Bike Biz. I know it's easy to make the Assumption that because bicycles often have a high retail value, there is a Lot of money to be made! Which is not true... I do not know which company you were associated with, sorry..
@@paulbrodie An old joke: "How does one come out of the cycle-industry with £10M? Go in with £40M..." (-: I've been there and seen it first hand at brand, distribution and retail level. All of the many cycle trade and industry businesses I've worked for, and with, failed - and not always because of me!!! The cycle industry is a great way to lose serious amounts of money, and very, very few ever get rich from it. Most don't manage to break even in the long run, but it can be fun trying. Being settled and contented, and remaining enthusiastic, as you seem to be, is a great outcome. Congratulations on being a fellow cycle-industry survivor. Someone might read this and guess the brand I spoke of earlier - but I'm never telling!
Yes, I have heard that joke for sure! I did have a lot of tough years in the bicycle biz, but I do feel fortunate to be in my present situation. We enjoy making videos, and creating or fixing bicycles, motorcycles, and other assorted projects. Never bored...
I recently had a request from a German fellow regarding some bicycle historical knowledge that I am privy to but immediately refused because for one thing you had to be there and for another it would have led to endless requests for finer points that have much to do about nothing similar to what this customer of yours has brought upon you Paul. I wanted to say what you can you expect he is German but that is a bit harsh as there are people like him all over the world. Luckily it took 39yrs for one to find you!
Nice to see you again mr Paul……remember there’s always a rotten apple in the barrel…one bad apple spoils the whole bushel….happy holidays mr Paul…to you and your loves ones….
Using the DRO seemed odd to me, guessing with a beautiful milling machine like that you might have a dial indicator at hand. It worked for sure, not criticizing the result. Making bicycle stems for NASA would make for some extremely expensive components. Beautiful shop! What are you planning to make next? Good luck!
Yes I do have a dial indicator. In fact four of them.. Using the DRO seemed logical to me. Yes, there are many ways to achieve the same result. Thanks for watching!
Would say……well, you said it all Paul. In fact ,if I were to comment on this,it would be along the lines of NO TWO THINGS are ‘identical’. Any two things made by hand,using judgement and having a standard to work within will differ ,when measured to a minute detail. On the other hand Products ‘manufactured’ on a large scale will ALSO work within accepted,desired tolerances. But if any product is measured to minute detail they will differ also. Suppose ,as you say ‘what is acceptable?’ Your work is ,to my mind,as good as it gets!
Hi Paul, for completeness next time also measure the vertical clamp for squareness to the head. That said i doubt any appreciable difference will be seen. Cheers!
Hello Paul, hello Mitch, this story makes me smile....I'm German, my hobby is MTB since decades and some Germans take it more than serious. When I buy something handmade, i have to thing about tolerance. In your case people think , there could be none, cause it's done by Paul. In Germany you are iconic for your stuff. Therefore people expact 0 degree. I think, refunding was a good deal for you and the customer. But it's still a handmade stem an it would have worked pretty well and reliable. If he would have placed a steelbar, he would have had corrected it within seconds....for me no reason to make such a trouble.
Dear Paul Brodie, as a cancer sufferer you might like to check out the many UA-cam video interviews of one Thomas Seyfried PhD (Professor of biology at Boston College) on the causes and possible cures of cancer. These tend to be long (an hour or more) but apart from the educational aspect the guy is really entertaining and thought provoking. Best regards.
"Hi, I'm looking for some hand made bicycle parts..." "Yeah I make those, by hand." "Okay I'll take some... hey these aren't exactly perfectly perfect, like if they were made by a CNC robot!?!?" "Yeah, they're hand made..."
I would love to see why the spirit level was so off…. Maybe the end were not perfectly 90 where he tried to rest the level….? Just to try to replicate the error…. Heheh
When I saw the first email from Alex, with his photos of the spirit level, I just knew I wanted to give him a refund, and Not to get into any sort of discussion... His method was very questionable, and I was happy to get the stem back. Thanks for watching...
Im dealing with a shop that sold me defective pedals ,The wrong grease was used and it damaged the o rings in the pedals ,And the grip tape used was spray glued to the pedals and not attached the normal way .They are a bespoke pedal from Germany that use laminated wood for the body.
There's more than 4mm of 'squish' in bar grips. If you're riding (off road) the bars are moving all over the place; up, down, left, right. Human anatomies are not perfectly symmetrical either. Even the smoothest of tarmac paved roads are far from even and level. Also: what is the accuracy of a DIY spirit level?
It is multiplied, but still not huge. 0.5 degree misalignment would result in a height difference of "800mm * tan 0.5°" which is ca. 7mm. For 0.2 degree misalignment, it's then only 2.8mm difference between the two bar ends.
There are other things to consider too with how it was measured with the spirit level, such as if the stem tube was cut perfectly square? It's really such an insignificant amount I don't know why it would matter, granted it's going to be worse the longer the bars are. It would have been interesting to see a long tube mounted as a handlebar would be and measure the runout at the ends, what would .0003 translate to at the bar end?
In addition to bikes, I also have an interest in astrology. When you do a reading, you often need to determine the angles between planetary bodies. The level of precision of this task is referred to as an "orb". 0.2° works out to 12 minutes of arc, which is a completely miniscule deviation, even for objects out in the depths of space.
The original 2 tenths of an inch should have been more than acceptable for a bicycle stem. I've gas welded 4130 aircraft tube frames to .3 tolerance and never failed an FAA airframe alignment inspection. Good on you Mr. Brodie.
Thank you. Happy Holidays!
I just brazed a new bar clamp onto a Kona Velocity quill. stem that I shortened...and I completely eyeballed the orientation, not even factoring in brazing distortion, and I can't imagine my accuracy is even close to Paul's...and if its off, you would never know riding or even looking at it 🤷♂
Sometimes eyeballing can be very good!
Two tenths of a degree. Really tiny!
I think I’ve just watched a “Canadian F*** You” 😂
Well, that's one way of looking at it....
That’s right
Perfecto.
🐻
Obsessive disorders are difficult to deal with on both sides of an interaction. I think you dealt with it well by refunding the purchase and letting the customer let go of the mental impasse.
Refunding was the correct thing to do..
@@paulbrodie The customer is always right....EVEN WHEN HE IS WRONG. I confirmed the angle to be 0.2 degrees (using 0.014 in over 4 in). Now, take a 44cm handlebar...the difference in height between corresponding points at each extreme would be 44cm x tan(0.2) = 0.15cm or 1.5mm. That is ridiculously small. Assuming he uses a wrap on his bars, the compression in his grip or uneven wrap could introduce that much difference. Not to mention the bike's stem tube alignment in the frame could easily be out by that much. Kudos Mr Brodie! You made one hell of good stem! Sadly, sometimes people are just never happy if something is not perfect (in their perception) - which is a poor reflection on them especially when their own error in measurement was the problem. A construction spirit level is a joke in machinist terms. Plus, the photo clearly shows the bubble offset to the left - so not even level in his measurement. Heavy sigh! Again, kudos to you Sir!!! No legitimate returns for 39 years and counting 👍
Brian, thanks for watching and commenting. I liked what you said. I did enjoy making this video, and I did try not to assign blame... just tell the story! Happy Holidays!!
@@paulbrodie You are all class and no BS! Happy Holidays!!
@@physicsguybrian Original quote was 'The Customer is always right...in matters of taste' Basically if the customer likes purple top hats and cowboy boots, don't tell them they are wrong, try to do the best you can to serve that requirement. However it doesn't apply to everything.
Sounds like Alex didn’t even try to mount it? Heck, I’ll buy it from you, if only to have an original Paul Brodie!
Came here to say the same
Well, I still have it, with the red paint... Make me an offer.
@@paulbrodieDon’t know how much to offer, but I’m doing a resto-mod of my old (1990) Trek 930 and this would be a great addition!
Well, I sold it to Alex for 260 plus shipping...
@@paulbrodie 🙂👌
0.2 degrees error over 630mm bar length would be 1.1mm at the bar ends, one side positive and one side negative. As you so diplomatically pointed out, your customers setup was meaningless for detecting errors of that small a magnitude. Kudos to you for taking the high road dealing with this fellow and producing such high quality work.
I'm not going to check your math but thanks for adding in that info, I agree 1.1mm at each end is pretty minimal, I'd guess most bikes are riding around with that much or more.
Thanks Scott. Appreciate your comment :)
I got the same result and came here to say that, so instead I'll just say I confirmed this (i.e., the difference from one end to the other would be just slightly more than 2mm).
2mm skew on the bar. It's a joke of an error. The bar flexes more when in actual use. The bar itself isn't that straight.
Thank you Paul and Mitch and of course co-starring Paul's hair.
My hair really has gone crazy...
oh.. that was a hair? i thought it was a cat...lol (^_^)
Get a haircut, son.
Erik, this is the first time in my life that I have had curly hair, and it might not last, so I am going to take advantage of it. That's what Chemo can do to a guy like me....
@@paulbrodie I'm sorry. I didn't know you had Chemo
2:38 Alex's measurement ASSUMES his handlebars that are in his measurement setup are perfectly aligned in all 4 bends. He also assumes the quill stem top face is perpendicular.
Most people would try some variables like other bars etc.
for real, lol. He would have to use some precision ground rod for that, cause handlebars are massively out of whack compared to that.
You should put the stem up for auction now, it's famous!
Yes, I'm going to sell it at the Swap Meet next Sunday...
I guarantee you that if you measured Alex's bones from his back through his shoulders, to his arms, you'd find more than the 2.35mm of dissimilarity between one side of him and the other than that fourteen thousandths of an inch adds up to at the end of his 660mm bars.
I agree with you. Thanks for watching....
Hi Paul. You should start an auction for the Re-aligned stem. you will probably be very surprised as to what people will bid to own one of the last Brodie stems. Love your work and your videos. Merry Xmas Paul and Mitch.
Yes, I am going to mount it on a Plaque and call it Art.
It will be the "Stem with a Story"..
An Auction might be good.
Making art out of it is good. frame the stem, then auction it off and donate the profits. ;)
what a funny drama.@@paulbrodie
@@pixelstift
Stem sell research is a big thing of late...
25 years in Bike business. No bike has ever been Perfect. Flex in every Bike. Brodie you are RIGHT.
Alex confirming the cultural stereotype about Germans with rigid objects jammed in their annular sections.
I have frequented a dozen German internet forums over the years, and there are always a bullying group of members who try to put others down. UK is right up there, too
Funny you say that, I was watching a youtube show on Military Tank restorations and they pointed out that German production was much slower than the Allies because over-complication, part complexity and overly strict tolerances, so much so it created shortages that affected their ability to fight (also didn't help that they also used forced labor)
That's one weird story. But a story nonetheless. This stem should be better off in the hands of someone who understands its value.
I agree. Thanks for commenting...
I like how you didn't prescribe what is really right or wrong, just what it really is, no bs.
Thanks Bruce. I just wanted to tell a story.
For those wanting to do their own calculations, Tan .2° * 630mm = 2.199 mm. Others have pointed out that since the bar is clamped in the middle, half of that would appear as positive on one end and negative on the other end. For reference, 1mm is approximately the thickness of an American dime. Alex made a problem where one didn't exist.
I have an aluminum threadless Answer stem from (probably) the late 90's, it has a visible misalignment rightward. To get the handlebar perpendicular to the front wheel the stem is about 91° from the right side of the bar and 89° from the left
Edit: I'm pretty sure I came from the return bin at Synchros when they were in Richmond, works great
This is a very scientific solution to a problem that doesn't exist....
A big box carpenters' level in a mechanics vice on a wooden work bench, that's cutting-edge precision there. Sadly, Alex sees nothing wrong with his setup.
Indeed he does not. Even sent a photo trying to prove his argument but the offset bubble on a very low precision level discredits him completely and that is entirely apart from his terrible setup. Heavy sigh!
Lol. Retired aircraft QA tech here. If ANYONE tried to complain about a part we made, with a level, ON PAINT, IN A VISE, well.... if it was an employee, they would be fired on the spot. Period. If it was a customer............. give them a replacement, go away now, never come back.
Paul you need a blue rinse for that hair do.......
I loved the eyeroll when you hit 3thou and called it good.
Originally Alex bar would have been up 1mm and down 1mm on the other end on a 60cm handle bar. Probably get that error on your grips🙄.
Some people are never happy. Had Alex installed it in his bike he would have never known.
I did enjoy making that video. felt like I had something to say!
Yes, but...but...he could have fallen over!
Just goes to prove that everything Paul makes is to the highest standard.
I was sent to H-D factory for training and a factory tour in the mid 70's and that's exactly how they corrected frame alignment after welding the frames :)
It's just metal...
That's life, Paul. Amazing to see the strength in the stem.
You should frame it and put it on the workshop wall. Like a first dollar made kind of a thing.
All the very best to you and Mitch.
That’s a great idea. Then every time you look at it you can say “That’s the only one anybody has complained about, and it’s perfect.”
Yes, it is going to get mounted on a Plaque... :)
Made me double check the old trig geometry formulas. Thumbs up for that.
I did have to ask my friend Scott...
Same here. It's been decades.
If you have to use instruments to detect the misalignment, it's good enough for a bike. I raced a whole season with a slightly bent handlebar and didn't notice until I took the bar off and discovered it didn't sit flat on the bench.
People are more complicated than machines
Jonathon, it's true! People can be complicated, and sometimes fussy too... And peoples bodies are rarely symmetrical and almost never perfect. Thanks for commenting!
Great to see your doing well Paul!Happy holidays Sir.Keep up the great content!
Thank you... Happy Holidays!!
I would've been impressed if you had gone 40 years with no returns😮. I think that fine piece of Brodie Engineering needs to be visible in every video going forward. Thank you for taking the time to film, edit and upload so others can watch and learn.
Well, what a difference one year makes!! Thanks for watching...
Alex clearly doesn’t understand how to measure things. Metrology is a well established study and practice which Alex hasn’t studied or practiced!
Regardless your story of this stem is instructive for anyone watching.
In solidarity I’m wearing my “It’s Milling Time” t-shirt today!
Love the way you handled this situation, I'd be honored to have that stem. Some people's kids...
Thank you very much! Happy Holidays :)
Great video. I’d happily buy that stem, 1.1mm off or not. I wonder what Alex’s method is for aligning his stem to his front wheel? Surely not the usual squint and “yeah, that looks good, let’s go ride” method.
Alex probably forgot to mention he's a 240 lbs one-armed Ironman. Pure speculation, but a solid hypothesis.
I imagine it was rider-induced misalignment. ...or you messed up and he caught a minor mistake after 40 years of admirable work.
I have not met Alex. Have no idea of his "build". He's obviously fussy with dubious methods of checking alignment.. Thanks for commenting...
Hey Paul, if Alex doesn’t want that stem anymore, can I buy it please?
It’d be pretty special to be the proud owner of the only Brodie stem to receive extra special alignment treatment in 39 years!
This is a tricky one, since it is almost entirely in the customer's head. Most people have no idea how good or bad (usually bad) their frames, stems, forks really are, and that ignorance is bliss. The second you measure it, then you are done for. Even a CNC's stem is going to be only marginally better than yours. The bend on the bar is most likely out a mm or more on each end. I think you were right to take it back rather than fight the customer, but I also agree that stem is "to an acceptable standard".
Thanks for watching and commenting!
Alex's wife must have seen the card statement. Suddenly it had to go back due to "misalignment."
Thanks, Paul, for the metrology lesson and thanks, Alex, for the entertainment, both were much appreciated :)
Being German myself, one word that came to mind is "Fremdscham". Keep it up Paul, love to see you take it with some good humour!
Also german here: in my mind the german word "pingelig" popped up.
The other German word to describe Alex that comes to mind is "korinthenkacker".
Jemand from the Germans hier eine Idee in welchem Forum das durchdiskutiert wurde?
Thanks, will do!
I frequent German forums, and there are always some guy(s) who are know-it-alls with overinflated ego's who bully the rest .
I would be very interested to know what the variance on the 6xx mm bar is from end to end!
Now that stem its "James Webb comply" ! I admire your work soo much but also that "Germany thing" to persuit the perfection and detail, I dont take the situation as a personal in any way,
I guess that stem deserves a frame and a special place in your shop. congratulations for your confidence in your quality of craftmanship.
Thanks for watching and commenting!
It's no pursuit of perfection, this is just being a hair splitter and a PITA to someone.
Customers. I've been in business (nothing to do with bikes) for 20 years, and learned a long time ago that pleasing 99% of them takes no effort at all if you take pride in your work manufacturing things. Most of the problems the remainder have are easily put right, but the few that are left will never be happy no matter what you do, so putting a disproportionate effort into trying to please them is not worthwhile, as you still can't win every time. I'd have thought it would be worse in a hype driven industry like bikes, full of people swearing that insignificant changes like 1 degree difference in head tube angle or a 10mm change in bottom bracket height, etc, typically in bike reviews, transforms the performance of the new model vs the old give people unrealistic expectations.
Someone told me that the Customer used to be King, but that is no longer the case. The Customer has now become a Dictator..
As Jody(welding tips n tricks) described one of his former bosses, " he was a dictator without the tator."@@paulbrodie Can't please ALL of the people all of the time. Sometimes a person has to fire a customer.
Keep up the GREAT content.
Thank you. We will keep creating for sure!
A trick I do when straightening things is to use a dial indicator to measure the bending moment. Then I can apply the pressure while watching the dial. I start at maybe .020". The metal springs back, maybe to .000, I put pressure till it reads .030", it springs back to .005". So if it's out .013" to start with I got .005" towards straight. I'll try .035". This may bring it another .005" or more depending on the metal. Doing this with a dial indicator I can rapidly approach .001" of trueness. I've used this method for pushrods, fork tubes, circle track race car axles, triple trees, and aligning similar shaped objects like what you are doing. The circle track axles wouldn't move until I measured 1/8" or more on the dial indicator. I blew apart a few V blocks doing those until I used solid steel blocks with a radius that match the axles diameter. Pretzeled my 20T press once..
It would be interesting to check similar sized commercial stems to see how they compare to Alex's ezacting standards.
I run a coffee shop in India and the little kids around the back of our shop ride around on bikes with no head bearings, broken spokes and wheels so misaligned that the new brakes I fitted for them are literally hit or miss on the rims. Im sure your client would have been fine with .2 degree misalignment on his handlebars.
I concur with the 0.2 degree angle given the 4" quill length and with a 660mm bar that means one end is 1.16mm higher than the mid point and the other end is 1.16mm lower, meaning there is a height differance of 2.32mm between the ends of the bars. I put it to Alex, he would not even notice that in the real world, let alone being eben able to see it...
lets just hope Alex doesn't start measuring his house. I worked in the building industry - general acceptable tolerance was 10mm. Way better than my 1930's house which doesn't have a single room than is square! It could destroy a person who worries about accuracy.
Very interesting story! some people cannot be pleased no matter what. On the other hand, we've leaned today that Brodie stems have a generous 39 year warranty! 😂😂 Thanks Paul!
Thanks for liking our video. I can't remember any stem ever coming back for warranty...
Hallo Paul, ich habe das gerade erst gesehen. Die Geschichte ist einfach nur zum fremd schämen. Peinlich vor allem die öffentliche Diskussion darüber in einem Forum. Danke für eure tollen Videos. Immer wieder ein Genuss, dir über die Schulter zu sehen. Alles Gute!
Classy response
Thank you.
Hi Paul & Mitch... wishing you guys a great Christmas and a healthy, happy New Year. Thank you both for your amazing videos, compelling projects, and for teaching me how to do things properly. Brilliant!
I've got numerous brand name aluminium handlebars that are bend differently each side, some are 12mm height difference when on full lock with grips touching the top tube
😂 measuring alignment with a spirit level 😂
He's German enough said 😂😂🤘🤘
Actualy, we are using spirit levels for precision alignment… but different kind of them. Very sensitive and acurate. ie 0.02/m…
Mr. Brodie, you are the man. Tolerance and degrees, predetermined by the fabricator are dialed in and if a customer isn't pleased, to quote Kurt Vonnegut, "Go take a flying '"f" at a rolling donut." Makes me sad that you even bothered to respond, but well played on your part. You don't need to defend your work. I rarely engage on this level, but "F" that guy. It's not a fighter jet, it's a bike stem...a hand crafted beautiful bike stem from a master of his craft.. Go Paul and Mitch, keep moving forward.
Thanks for watching and commenting :)
I won't comment on anyone's expectations of perfection, but I suspect a lot of alignment issues could be found were one to properly measure components of any given bicycle. Especially frames and forks, and they still ride just fine. Staying together is more important.
Yes, and our bodies are sure not perfect either. Are my arms exactly the same length? Probably Not...
I heard they were just riding along when it happened.
Yes, "JRA" really is a Thing. It happens probably more than you might imagine....
It was interesting watching you making guitars as my brother makes and restores them for people. Over the years he has come across a couple of customers who will never be satisfied. One lived quite close to my brother and was slagging his work off on the net so I went with my brother to this guy's house to refund him and take the guitar back. The guy looked totally panic-stricken and refused to accept the money back deal. He obviously just liked slagging people off on the net.
Spirit levels are good for laying bricks ,I would have more faith in your experience and the digital readout. Anyway right at this moment I’m involved in a debate with my wife and son in regard to how straight our Christmas tree is aligned to the floor. Speaking of which Merry Christmas to you Paul and Mitch , thanks for an enjoyable able ride during the year. Everyone else out there stay healthy and safe . 🎁🎁👍👍
Hope you get your Christmas tree straightened out....
Happy Holidays!!
The summer that I worked in a bike shop in Edmonton, buddy comes in with his track bike. He's headed off to England for some higher level track racing after Edmonton hosted the Commonwealth games. We just wanted to look over his bike to make sure that nothing was amiss before he left.
I first noticed that his seat wasn't level, it was tilted side to side. On his seat post, he had one Campagnolo support and one Zeus support. Visibly wonky, buddy didn't notice at all.
Then we checked the frame, it was twisted from, amongst other things, riding over the wheels of someone who crashed in front of him. Measurably wonky, buddy didn't notice at all.
I can't imagine that any of the bikes that we raced were actually straight (try discussing "straight" with an engineer or a physicist), how would we know? Those bikes went to the Olympics and got medals, but were they straight? I doubt it.
They were straight enough.
That's a great story, and probably quite true. Usually, something has to be quite wrong before a Lot of people notice. Most people just don't look that hard. Thanks for commenting...
I always think when I ride with just one pannier that the bike is going to be leaning, and in fact I never notice it.
(I'm sure the ratio of the weight of whatever's in the pannier to the total system weight [ = bike + rider + payload] is pretty small ... )
A bike frame is straight when I can ride it hands free without leaning to one side. Measurement is always about setting the right criteria for it.
Heck I’ll buy it from you and use it forever. 👍
Awesome!
Just woke up at 3am here in Japan and started my day watching Paul and Mitch! Before making custom bicycle frames, I learned a lot from a tailor on how to take measurements to make a suit. He told me that is really very hard to find someone with both shoulders in the same size, in my opinion, 0.2 degrees will not do any difference in the fit position.
That's a very good point.. Thanks for commenting over there in Japan!
@@paulbrodie Thank you for 39 years making bicycles and never giving up. Thanks for the great camera man too, Mitch!
Could have just installed it in a mock up and looked to see if its straight.
If it looks crooked it’s crooked.
Can your eye see 0.2 degrees? Probably not....
I have no doubt it's physical straight.
Somethings can appear twisted bowed or crooked.
I didn't even know what that was for until several minutes in.
Forgive my ignorance
You are forgiven! Thanks for watching.. Happy Holidays! ....
Started machining in 1972. Manual to CNC, Alex got me laughing mine arse off lol!
My first thought "the guy is measuring paint" lol Makes you wonder how uniform thickness of paint job is? Then if he noticed something off while riding it, how accurate are his handlebars? On the other hand, .0135" seems a lot of tilt in 4". That translates to .088" over the length of 26". So less than 1/10 of an inch difference between the ends of the handlebars. He just might feel it... maybe. But it does go to show you about checking things for straightness after welding or brazing should be part of the program. Building mass spectrometers back in the 80's had some crazy specs we had to adhere to. :)
The old pipe will fix the nanometers 😁
Welcome back to the Fluffy Hair Club, that's really awesome to see!
is the stem tube (vertical bit) machined true on both ends, or a cleaned up saw cut? a little bit there will show on the 'level' test. even if the bore is dead on 90 degrees to the handlebar clamp tube.
I think what you call the "stem tube", we refer to as the Quill Tube... The top is machined on a lathe, and the bottom is saw cut , and belt-sanded smooth to the highest QC! Hope this answers your question....
yes it does. thanks for the reply.
Classy as always Paul.
Thank you Pete.
Good job sir
German´s are superior when it comes to precision.
No BS, just German´s bein German.... What´s not to like
And agree with Brodie at the same time, awesome builder and gentleman
Thanks for commenting!
well... Alex got your attention. That made him happy. 😄
I used to work with some Germans in high-end cycle distribution. They almost bankrupted their supplier (a very high-end frame brand) by returning anything which did not match EXACTLY to the pre-production approval sample. These frames were colour anodised, so many frames were returned for the colour being just slightly different to the initial pre-prod sample - when most us understand full well that coloured anodising never has perfect batch consistency. Well, the conclusion to my story is that due to poor descision making by these Germans, the entire supply chain went bankrupt. Alex may well be one of the Germans who I used to work with!
Good story David. There is a fine line between being reasonable and unreasonable, and knowing where the balance is is a good thing, I believe. Being nit-picky and hurting your supplier financially does not sound good to me at all...
@@paulbrodie It would seem that being nit-picky is a sport in Germany! Another thing I learned whilst working with Germans is that "German efficiency" is a myth. So, I wound up working for a related carbon bike frame brand. It was British financed, German designed, managed and operated (yes, by the very same nit-picky ones) and Taiwanese produced. We were pioneers in the industry; the world's first exclusivly carbon frame brand which was distributed globaly, and the originator of the modern tapered steerer. By 2005 we had a range of road trames. TT/Tri models and an XC MTB frame - all very innovative and high quality. We worked with a well known (in Germany) freelance cycle-industry technical consultant who insisted that each individual frameset must be checked in Germany for Stiffness-To-Weight and the specific result logged against the serial number and maintained on a database for reasons of QC accountability for insurance liability and warranty reasons - despite no other comparable frame brand doing this. The consultant provided the testing equipment necessary, at 30,000 Euros. The testing ended up taking a minimum of 45 mins per frameset, as the proceedures had to be carried out three times and the varying results averaged to give specific values for the record. This meant that one staff member in Germany did nothing but STW testing, so the cost was 30,000 Euro initially for test rig, and then about 3,000 Euro per month as additional internal labour costs. Can you guess what happened to that brand? Yup, bankrupt as well. There were other serious issues contributing to the business failure, mostly related to poor descision making in Germany. It was often a case of noses being bitten off to spite faces, and ridiculous petty grievances - just as with poor Alex, who has (quite rightly) been publicly embarassed and now has no stem! I'm not telling the name of the failed UK/D/TW carbon frame brand. Can anyone guess?
David, thanks for the continuation of that story. It is hard to be in business, even harder to be in the Bicycle Business, but still so many people and companies have a desire to make it in the Bike Biz. I know it's easy to make the Assumption that because bicycles often have a high retail value, there is a Lot of money to be made! Which is not true... I do not know which company you were associated with, sorry..
@@paulbrodie An old joke: "How does one come out of the cycle-industry with £10M? Go in with £40M..." (-: I've been there and seen it first hand at brand, distribution and retail level. All of the many cycle trade and industry businesses I've worked for, and with, failed - and not always because of me!!! The cycle industry is a great way to lose serious amounts of money, and very, very few ever get rich from it. Most don't manage to break even in the long run, but it can be fun trying. Being settled and contented, and remaining enthusiastic, as you seem to be, is a great outcome. Congratulations on being a fellow cycle-industry survivor. Someone might read this and guess the brand I spoke of earlier - but I'm never telling!
Yes, I have heard that joke for sure! I did have a lot of tough years in the bicycle biz, but I do feel fortunate to be in my present situation. We enjoy making videos, and creating or fixing bicycles, motorcycles, and other assorted projects. Never bored...
I recently had a request from a German fellow regarding some bicycle historical knowledge that I am privy to but immediately refused because for one thing you had to be there and for another it would have led to endless requests for finer points that have much to do about nothing similar to what this customer of yours has brought upon you Paul. I wanted to say what you can you expect he is German but that is a bit harsh as there are people like him all over the world. Luckily it took 39yrs for one to find you!
Nice to see you again mr Paul……remember there’s always a rotten apple in the barrel…one bad apple spoils the whole bushel….happy holidays mr Paul…to you and your loves ones….
Using the DRO seemed odd to me, guessing with a beautiful milling machine like that you might have a dial indicator at hand. It worked for sure, not criticizing the result. Making bicycle stems for NASA would make for some extremely expensive components. Beautiful shop! What are you planning to make next? Good luck!
Yes I do have a dial indicator. In fact four of them.. Using the DRO seemed logical to me. Yes, there are many ways to achieve the same result. Thanks for watching!
Would say……well, you said it all Paul. In fact ,if I were to comment on this,it would be along the lines of NO TWO THINGS are ‘identical’. Any two things made by hand,using judgement and having a standard to work within will differ ,when measured to a minute detail. On the other hand Products ‘manufactured’ on a large scale will ALSO work within accepted,desired tolerances. But if any product is measured to minute detail they will differ also. Suppose ,as you say ‘what is acceptable?’ Your work is ,to my mind,as good as it gets!
Hi Paul, for completeness next time also measure the vertical clamp for squareness to the head. That said i doubt any appreciable difference will be seen. Cheers!
Nice explanation! Alex... well... one day he will grow up... or not.
Merry Christmas to you, Mitch, and your relatives... 🎄 🎁
Happy Holidays to you!
The forces you applied to "align" the stem can obviously easy occur in regular use when the stem wasn't set up deep enough.
My takeaway is that steel is wonderful, it can be cold set and extra-perfectly aligned with ease.
39 years, that’s a really long time for not one single person to complain about something.
I know.... I know.... Thanks for watching and commenting!
Are you finding them over there then we have a in England the same hope you have a good one. Michael from England
great work
Thank you! Cheers!
Hello Paul, hello Mitch, this story makes me smile....I'm German, my hobby is MTB since decades and some Germans take it more than serious. When I buy something handmade, i have to thing about tolerance. In your case people think , there could be none, cause it's done by Paul. In Germany you are iconic for your stuff. Therefore people expact 0 degree. I think, refunding was a good deal for you and the customer. But it's still a handmade stem an it would have worked pretty well and reliable. If he would have placed a steelbar, he would have had corrected it within seconds....for me no reason to make such a trouble.
Dear Paul Brodie, as a cancer sufferer you might like to check out the many UA-cam video interviews of one Thomas Seyfried PhD (Professor of biology at Boston College) on the causes and possible cures of cancer. These tend to be long (an hour or more) but apart from the educational aspect the guy is really entertaining and thought provoking. Best regards.
Lol. I could tell it was out of line from my living room. I guessed .250 of a degree.
That's Amazing! You must have Supernatural powers or something like that....
"Hi, I'm looking for some hand made bicycle parts..."
"Yeah I make those, by hand."
"Okay I'll take some... hey these aren't exactly perfectly perfect, like if they were made by a CNC robot!?!?"
"Yeah, they're hand made..."
Looks good to me!
Hello from Beautiful British Columbia Canada 🇨🇦 😍 ❤️
Well Hello to you in Beautiful BC. :)
I would love to see why the spirit level was so off…. Maybe the end were not perfectly 90 where he tried to rest the level….? Just to try to replicate the error…. Heheh
When I saw the first email from Alex, with his photos of the spirit level, I just knew I wanted to give him a refund, and Not to get into any sort of discussion... His method was very questionable, and I was happy to get the stem back. Thanks for watching...
Im dealing with a shop that sold me defective pedals ,The wrong grease was used and it damaged the o rings in the pedals ,And the grip tape used was spray glued to the pedals and not attached the normal way .They are a bespoke pedal from Germany that use laminated wood for the body.
it's like watching William Dafoe making bikes. ❤
Happy Holidays guys
Thank you. Happy Holidays.
The Alex Stem is now very popular 😂😂
You might be right. I'm going to sell it at the Vintage Swap Meet next month...
I’ve been around a long time (one year older that you) and found that some people aren’t happy unless they’re miserable.
True.
There's more than 4mm of 'squish' in bar grips. If you're riding (off road) the bars are moving all over the place; up, down, left, right. Human anatomies are not perfectly symmetrical either. Even the smoothest of tarmac paved roads are far from even and level. Also: what is the accuracy of a DIY spirit level?
I like your comment. Thanks for commenting!
Is this a gooseneck for a Rocket Ship heading to Mars? Or a Bicycle!
Wouldn't a slight misalignment of the stem be multiplied out at the ends of a 800mm bar?
It is multiplied, but still not huge. 0.5 degree misalignment would result in a height difference of "800mm * tan 0.5°" which is ca. 7mm.
For 0.2 degree misalignment, it's then only 2.8mm difference between the two bar ends.
Having a return just makes it real, otherwise nobody will believe you! The result is still no defect in 39 years.
There are other things to consider too with how it was measured with the spirit level, such as if the stem tube was cut perfectly square? It's really such an insignificant amount I don't know why it would matter, granted it's going to be worse the longer the bars are. It would have been interesting to see a long tube mounted as a handlebar would be and measure the runout at the ends, what would .0003 translate to at the bar end?
In addition to bikes, I also have an interest in astrology. When you do a reading, you often need to determine the angles between planetary bodies. The level of precision of this task is referred to as an "orb". 0.2° works out to 12 minutes of arc, which is a completely miniscule deviation, even for objects out in the depths of space.
I have the feeling that 0.2 could be a meme or something..
Alex`s 9:06 minutes of fame for shure...
“I’m not in the habit of aligning stems.” -GOAT
The spirits told Alex it was out.