Perfect Pumping Hydrofoil Board for Lake Foil Surfing?
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- Опубліковано 28 вер 2024
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This sport is dangerous. Please be safe. We’d encourage you to thoroughly review all product safety material prior to trying. If you don’t feel safe, do not proceed. This sport is not as easy as it looks. It took us many hours of practice, but we enjoyed the journey. Please use a CGA life vest. Please wear a helmet to protect your head. Please wear a wetsuit to protect from cuts from any sharp edges. Please proceed at your own risk. We review products and share our own personal experience. If you rely on the information in this video, you assume responsibility for results. Wake Thief, LLC.
This is dope keep pumping it like an animal!
😂 I should’ve left that out of the video.
@@WakeThief yea my guy probably, I would describe it as pumping up a tire
@@Bruh-gc7rd good one!
*inhale* “BY OSCILLATING THE HYDROFOIL UP AND DOWN THE LIFT COMPONENT VECTOR CAN BE INCLINED IN THE DIRECTION OF TRAVEL” *gasp*
Cool video by the way, I didn’t even know this was a thing!
Lol! Thanks for this. If I can ever help; let me know
this is great, its like a science experiment to discover a totally new sport.
Thank you, Anthony. I just had that realization recently. The more we dig in and try things, the more we're learning. Our recent mission is to try to simplify the learning experience so everyone can experience this feeling we know and love! Thanks for the comment.
I’m obsessed with this . I saw a vid on tiktok and now I’m hooked . I want a board so bad .
Pls email me at wakethief@icloud.com. Happy to help! What’s your weight? Boardsports skill level? How do you want to use it?
The board you are using I kite foiled with for about one year. I then moved to a Kanaha Shapes board which was even shorter and lighter. Amazing board. Now i'm riding a friends custom design which is similar to the KS but with more rocker for kiting. Try the KS i think you will like it.
Oliver! Thank you. I will take a closer look. I appreciate the comment.
Have you given any thought to using some kind of handlebars on your boards? If you had one handlebar on the front and one on the back, it seems like this would allow you to pump harder. The bar stem could either be rigid (like a steel tube) or soft (like a rope or cable).
(I say this as a former skateboarder who experimented with all different kinds of set ups back in the 1970s, including screwing a T-shaped handlebar onto the front of our boards, making them behave somewhat like the two wheel Razor-type scooters that came out about 10 years ago. Doing this certainly made jumping on and off curbs easier. It also made it more difficult to fall off the board.) I hope you'll consider giving this a try.
Such a clever idea, thank you! I have never heard this one. I think you’re right. There aren’t that many muscles we can fully utilize when pumping. This would help. Appreciate you sharing.
I didn't even know self-propelled hydrofoiling was a thing. Thanks for sharing.
No problem! Thanks for the comment.
I love all of your videos. Great work. Next step would be pumping with a handheld wing while hydrofoiling in light winds :D
Yea! That should help endless flight. Thanks for the comment, Christian.
This looks like so much fun! I’ve got to try it.
Dude you rule. You do this in winter -- There is snow ? Thats dedication ..
Lol! Thanks for the comment, Finn. We’re a bit nuts. ua-cam.com/video/-RFXBMPSbOA/v-deo.html
I used to work in hydraulics. When we had to manually pump something, not with external power, we would describe it as 'mandraulic' 😊
if you bring your feet closer together over the stem of the foil you'll generate more power with each pump. Also relaxing your upper body so you can use your weight with your legs like you're a big weighted piston
You probably have a little extra air resistance with the larger board too which adds to wasted energy. But extended mass is likely the dominant cause of the wasted energy.
Have you considered Pumping with a single front strap or front and back strap? I think it would give you more leverage, or would you consider it cheating??? Enjoy watching your reviews!
Thank you. It’s a great reminder. Yes I have tried it but the front strap location is not ideal so I need to try another board. I think it would help too! Onto a new board!
“Pumping it like an animal” 😂 perfect response!!
Wouldn't be surprised to see this being an Olympic sport in at some point.
Can’t wait to see you start by catching a wave in the ocean!! I know you can do it
I’ve never surfed a foil in the ocean. I think I’ll struggle popping up and paddling in … two muscle memories I dont have! Thanks for the comment
"I'm pumping it like an animal,"... totally something I would have said at the spur of the moment. My coworkers think I'm crazy for laughing like a hyena in my office when I saw this.
There’s thousands of these going around now too. Lol.
www.tiktok.com/t/ZTNPCnqJu/
Keep on pumping my man!
Thanks! Appreciate the comment!
I got an idea why not have a rope at the front to grab onto and help with the weight distribution, it will get you way more leverage at the front.
Gosh, that's an interesting idea. Someone also mentioned pumping with dumbbells. I need all the help I can get. Thanks for the thought!
They have a similar craft back in the day.
What lake are you on?
I’d like to see more short board options. Looking at a Kit board from Clearwater they have a small and smaller option wondering if the 2’11” peanut would be a wake thieving tool of glide.
I’ve been wondering the same thing. I’d guess it works well. If you order jt, please let me know. Thanks. Wakethief@icloud.com
Thank you for the review... No wonder it is so hard to pump my 112 liter Reedin board!!.. lol... As a wing foiler, it is NOT as important, but still it matters... I will not even try until I am at the level of wing foiling with about 20 liter range board... 🙄☺️
Yes! Pumping these large boards is unbelievably hard compared to the
Axis Tray 110 looks like a good option, have you tried one yet?
I have not tried one. I think you're right though.
@@WakeThief I just ordered one, I couldn't resist.
"Like an animal" had me laughing hard. I'm surprised you said something and didn't save every ounce of energy.
I love the micro too, very responsive! Have you ever used foot straps with that board? Makes MY pumping easier but doubt if you need it as you can pump it like an animal! Lol
Lol. Thanks Serge. Yes, I've tried the straps, but they're not placed in the spot I want them, so can't really make good use of them. I hope you're well. Thx for the comment.
what can you say regarding inflatable boards?
The smallest board I’ve been able to come across online is the Axis Tray 94. 94cm, 4.4 lbs and less than 10 liters.
Thanks, Ryan. Love it. Great suggestion. That's a logical next step!
Not only is the 94 tray shorter and lighter it is also wider than the dwarfcraft micro and so it still has a generous planing surface. In particular it is much wider in the tail. It also has a good nose scoop so I have found it for kitesurfing as easy as the dwarfcraft to get started on foil. Very cool to see you gliding in the lake.
Thank you! I’ll take a closer look. That seems like the winner as well as the small carbon board from Armstrong. Appreciate you taking the time to share.
@@dpurdy6402 sounds like the logical next step. Thank you
So how many pounds is your favorite board and foil added up.
Wait, what's wrong with using a skateboard deck? I was gonna try it
Just really hard to start with the lift of the foil only. Board planing before foil takeoff is a lot easier
I'm pumping it like a animal 🤣 that was great rofl
Thanks. I'm sure I could've come up with something better.
Have you tried the 80 cm Naish microchip?
I haven’t
Best answer ever, idk what you were talking about :laughing:
😂
Planning on hydrofoiling a racing kayak, any foils you would recommend
Wow! I talked to someone last year also interested in that! How much do you and the kayak weigh? What speed do you want to fly at? Maybe email me if easier. Wakethief@icloud.com
@Wake Thief Great videos! Thank you! I looked into foil pumping 1-2 years ago and was advised by one company that this is only for pros who live and breath water sports year round. Thanks for proving them wrong. Did you have a chance to review the Kanaha Shapes Board? How would this compare with the Dwarfcraft Slingshot 100cm, or the Axis Tray 94? Also, have you ever considered/tried using some sort of propulsion system attached to the bottom of the board just to get started? Is there a propulsion system that would be light enough to secure to the board?
Robbie! Great questions ... I have not tried the Kanaha shape boards, but should reach out. Thank you. This foil drive system is close to the propulsion system you describe. ua-cam.com/video/jp6-l2-LZOM/v-deo.html. I have a boost surf fin coming ... been waiting on that for a long time. Thanks for this. I'll keep you posted.
Swiming with an efficient dragfree tail maybe ...?
Good to see ya
I have found that I need the rear wing to stabilize the front wing while pumping. It's just too hard to pump without the rear wing!
Why do you need to pump? Will it not work or go forward if you dont pump?
Correct. The drag force slows the foil down to a point where it can’t generate lift and it falls out of the sky. We need to pump to keep the foil going
This looks like so much fun. Whats the top speed? Also, wouldn't you just need bigger/ wider wings or whatever the things under the water are called for longer distances? Lol can you tell im a noob? Wicked video tho 🍻
You’re not wrong! That’s exactly what we need. Max speed of this wing is about 6m/s pumping. Can go much faster with a kite or wing. We need bigger foils and that will unlock endless flight
What size foil works best? does aspect ratio matter? I would think a short board like 30", but 20 " wide would work well. Volume of the board does not matter, so a short and thin light board would be good. Does foil weight matter?
Hi Heinz - I like 1800-2000sqcm area, and aspect ratio >7 (115cm or larger span). Lets me fly at a lower speed to reduce power so I can fly longer. High aspect ratio reduces drag. Board can be as short and light as you can get, as long as you can get out of the water on it. Foil weight doesn't matter that much. I prefer Aluminum mast because its stiffer and provides better power transfer during pumping.
If we fall in the middle of the sea, how do we get back on it?
Swim back to shore and relaunch
You should try liquid force nebula
Yes. Great board. Been riding it a few months now. We’re working on a 20 board review right now so please stay tuned!
Folks often speak to a "sweet-spot" on board akin to a tennis racket. Said differently, an area of control - often slightly larger board more forgiving, etc. Is there a pt. of diminishing returns (say you went sub 3 ft) whereas the board is just too twitchy/sensitive that it makes it nearly impossible to ride if you foot/weight placement is not perfect, etc.?
It's a great point. In the same way, I complain about swing weight, it does dampen the pumping motion. A little bit like how pumping a super short fuse and small wing takes more precise control and energy, I suspect the same is true for boards. Thanks for this.
Thank you for this 😁. Do the same rules apply for ocean boards?
I suspect it does for tow foiling (getting pulled into an ocean wave with a jet ski), but if you want to paddle from your stomach to surf (like conventional surfing), no ... you'll need a higher volume board that will plane more quickly ... ideally something >40L. Thanks for the question.
🤔it looks like it might feel the way jumping hard on a trampoline feels. like when your trying not to let your feet going in the air but still jumping trying not to knee your face lol🤣
What if you just widen your stance on a larger board to use that extra leverage.
Thanks for the suggestion, Grant. We have tried this and now realized that the goal needs to be nearly straight legs and feet close together. Imagine doing a wall sit for 30min . The weight of ones' body is enough (without even introducing force to pump the board) to tire one out. But we can stand for 30min no problem. So, you're right, the leverage would help, but the tradeoff is the ability of your legs to hold your body weight when far apart.
Well done as usual! Thanks for your work!
Have you ever tried a 60cm or 68cm mast for pumping?
Brilliant thought Lars. Yes. I have a few smaller masts and given I only need about 25cm up plus down on the mast, I might as well go shorter and benefit from the lower weight better control and better rigidity. I’m just so used to 75cm right now it will take some getting used to
Thanks for your answer! It’ll be interesting if you can improve your already astonishing pumping time with a shorter mast..
@@lazylaserlars thanks Lars. I will try when my lake thaws :)
What have you found to be the optimal mast length for pumping? (And what's your lenght as reference, since it likely relates to rider length?)
I saw you previous response now, thanks!
You're welcome ... short is best. Nice and rigid. I have tried 90cm masts multiple times and I feel so much better on a 75cm. I also feel like you need to stick with one and not change so you can really place that wing near the surface and keep drag down ... by having less mast underwater.
How fast does a boat need to be going to use their wake to propel you? I’m thinking about buying one but at my marina boats can’t go over 5mph.
5mph isn't enough, but 8mph is. You might be able to get away with 6mph if you're light (2400sqcm). Let me know if I can help you figure this out. wakethief@icloud.com
Im beginer 70kg, which size of wing foil fit me. Thank you so much.
I’d be happy to help. Please email me with your boardsports background and what you want to do with the foil … dock start, pump, surf wakes/waves, big wakes/waves, wing?
Hey I really enjoy your videos!
I plan to get the Axis 1150. I weight 58 kg and I heard under 60 kg the Axis 1010 would be better?
I want to dock start and surf little waves.
I want to use the 3'7 board from Indiana with 24 litre volume. Do you think that is a good idea ?
Thanks for the great videos :)
Hi Yvi - Please email me at wakethief@icloud.com. Happy to help. I think you’re right to size down to 1010 or maybe even 910 (same foil section so similar lift to drag performance, with roughly same aspect ratio and just less area … which is needed for lighter riders to fly at higher speeds). 24L board should be good but you can go even less volume if you like. We like the 100cm dwarfcraft. If you’re in the US/Canada and purchase from REAL, Mackite or Greenhat, please us WAKETHIEF coupon code. We will send you a small gift. We make a small commission that supports our channel! Thanks for your support.
Slingshot's new 2021 line has a 100cm micro which is 4 inches shorter than this one! Are you considering getting into wing foiling? I'm considering getting into it but would appreciate some of your in depth research videos on it as well. Anyways thanks for the great info!
Thanks, Aaron. I did see that one. It would be the one I'd get if I were in the market for a new one! I have wing foiled, but the lake I live on / test foils is just too calm. Makes it perfect for lake foiling, but crappy for winging. I am going to go to other lakes in the summer of 2021 and do some winging videos, but unfortunately I won't have anything until then. Great suggestion!
@@WakeThief Good to know! Yeah I would be doing it 70% on a lake in Alabama and the other 30% in the gulf. That's why I am hesitate myself. Big investment on bigger board and wing to not know for sure how well it would perform here. Thanks for your help!
@@akelly1983 pls let me know if I can help. Foilingny@gmail.com & @foilingny on Facebook.
Wow you can really pump, do you ever pump with friends
Thank you.
You’re welcome. If you look through a few more videos including the 1010 vs 1000 review you’ll get a good feel for what will be good for you. Reach out again if I can help.
pushing water over the wing to create lift and thrust by pumping the board
Bingo! I'm working on a video to dive into the details of pumping. How the physics work and how we can think about better pumping wings. This has been a fun journey. Thanks for the comment.
@@WakeThief thank you for the reply ! hope to see a vid of yours on pumping in the ocean! happy new year!
@@jackbenimblejack1 no doubt my first foiling in the ocean will be capture for everyone to .... laugh ... though I’ll hope for a smile more than a laugh.
Can you put a link for the board that you got
This is the 2021 version of my 2019 model. I recommend the 100 unless you're >6'2" and >220lb, then the 120. greenhatkiteboarding.com/products/2021-slingshot-dwarftcraft-foilboard?sub_id=ghwt
Love the videos. One thought is that it seems you seem to ride the foil deeper in the water which i hear is less efficient though i'm not exactly clear why. Have you looked at mast depth in the water to see if that improves efficiency?
Excellent point. I totally agree. The clips I used in this video were some of my earlier videos, and I had the same reaction when making the video. I am fully convinced that a front wing near the surface has much less drag that a wing deeper in the water. I believe it's just less drag from the submerged part of the mast. I also found that small burst of low amplitude pumps with wing near the surface is more effective than high amplitude slower pumps. Thanks for the comment.
It's additionally a possibility that water displaced over the foil closer to the surface requires less lifting energy as the mass of water above the foil is reduced close to the surface.
"When I pump with my legs, the foil underneath the board performs a dolphin kick" (Not entirely sure this is correct, but sounds pretty good)
Much better!
@@WakeThief How easy is it to get up on the foil if a jetski is giving you a tow? Is that a fairly manageable skill to learn for one of the more pumpable boards. I'm thinking of getting a jetski and some foils, and doing something similar to what you do, except with jetski launches instead of dock launches. (Good docks are not that easy to find, but boat ramp launches, particularly for a jetski, are everywhere.)
Peter. Definitely something that can be learned. Depending on current skill level you might choose a larger board and a smaller foil first but it can and is skipped often. Let’s chat and we can decide what’s right for you. Devon. Wakethief@icloud.com
Broooo, keep pumping it like an animal
Oh man. "Pumping it like an animal" hahahahah priceless xD
I felt like such a fool after I said it.
Are we still doing phrasing?
Tech tip: Need to add a device that extenuate the movement with little effort...like a bike with gears...you're welcome!
That is brilliant. It's so true. If we could leverage to create that small movement too that would be awesome. Thanks for the comment.
Alternatively the Moses t22 which is still 1.9kg, 107cm long and cheaper than the axis.
Thanks Ollie!
The armstrong 311 board maybe. I rode with the Half-life guys on youtube and brought my micro like yours. They thought my potatoe chip board was dead compared to there 311. They have 500 plus sessions to my 100 something so it might be worth a try.
Donny! Love the suggestion. I'll take a look.
@@WakeThief Thanks for responding! You and Half-life are my lakefoil heros! Cant believe your up to 300 hours now. 🤙🍻
Thanks, Donny. Pls let me know if I can ever help.
@@richdeveau9134 Yep. I have the dwarfcraft micro. I found the micro is easier to get up on. The 311 is very buoyant and doesnt submerge like the micro so you have to pretty much one hand your start holding the board with one hand. Would be easier to pop up if strapped. The feel of where the foil is in the water is very similar. Super sensitive. They both pump well. I like my micro. But thats what im used to. 🍻
Super helpful, Donny. It doesn’t sound like switching to the 311 gains much.
Pumping it like a train
Pumping it like an air pump
Pumping it like bike pedals
Pumping it like a water well
Pumping it like a water toy
Pumping it like Old fashion gas pump
(I have honestly no idea what I’m talking about)
Pumping it like a water gun toy
Pumping it like pumping gas into a car
Pumping it like an organ
Pumping it like a bag pipe
Ha! Well done!
@@WakeThief thank you
What size foil are you using?
Hi Dan. It's the AXIS 1150 (115cm span, 1700sqcm area). Full review here: ua-cam.com/video/Ueb5mMOMt-8/v-deo.html
@@WakeThief It looks awesome, I have been trying to learn with a 2400sqcm Armstrong foil on my sup surf board, which is huge and fat and feels impossible to even pump once on. Perhaps my huge board is the problem and not the huge foil wing. Thanks for the video, you are awesome on that thing.
Thank you, Dan. How big is your board? Pls send me vids. Happy to help you figure it out. Wakethief@icloud.com
@@WakeThief just emailed you, thanks!~
Is this making you tired? If yes, in how many minutes
On a foil like this, 2min. But I’ve gone 24min on this foil …m.ua-cam.com/video/WfJbF0xkUOY/v-deo.html
You sound like Brian from sv Delos
Lol. You’re not the first to say that. I had to look him up!
looking good! 👏‼️🏄♀️🤙💯🤳🤣🤟✊🚨☃️🎬🎥🙏
Thanks, Zeno! I watched your video yesterday and your board looked great ... as did your dock starting and pumping!
@@WakeThief Thanks! You mean this video: ua-cam.com/video/Jgy5swhecuQ/v-deo.html
Love it! Thanks for sharing
Great video & foiling
I got a fish pulling me
Pumping is best described by a bird flapping its wings, thats how they can stay in the air. Foil pumping is the same principle, you pump the wing so you don't sink.
I'd love to dig into this further. Perhaps a good future video idea. Thank you.
Awesome music track!!!
My thanks to UA-cam Studio non-attribution required tracks ...lol
As a poor college student, I don't think I'll be able to afford even the cheap ones for a while 😅
You're pumping it like an animal? o_O
Flying & Gliding ...
It moves sort of like the tail of a dolphin.
Yes, exactly!
lol Hiw these thing wear that shadow and the fake sun thing wow
"I'm riding on a dolphin tail!" Should be close and concise enough.
LOL. Yes, that would've been better.
Should have said your girlfriend is pulling me in her invisible airplane .
Lol. That's a good one.
"It is all in the hips." Probably a terrible responce.
Lol. That’s pretty good!
Less pump is much more better...
This is cool but looks exhausting
It sure is .... if it were just a bit less energy it would be even more amazing.
... pumping it like an animal. lol
I'm pumping it like an animal!?!?!😂
😂 I couldn’t think of anything better!
im pumping it like an animal was deffenetly the best thing annyone could say ever
LOL. Glad you liked it. I didn't know what to say. After saying it, I realized how I actually didn't understand how pumping worked!
I love the response you gave to those kyackers. Haha I'm pumping like an animal! 🤣
There has to be a response! I'm an engineer, not a marine biologist, so I blanked on animals ... dolphin, I think seems to the consensus answer I'm hearing. Thanks for the comment, Hunter!
I love the response to...😁
That was the BEST ANSWER! I nearly rolled on the floor laughing.. But the answer is so true and accurate! 🤣 Great job as always!
@@jrussomann thanks! Appreciate you taking the time to leave a comment.
I thought you made some sort of beasteality joke.
Rigid, thin, little air resistance, and a tail kick are what I imagine the perfect board would be and it looks like ur setup is all of those except the tail kick. I recently just went from a 4'0 36L board (very thick and no deck concave) to a 4'8 29L board (very thin with a front strap and deck concave). I have to say the 4'8 pumps about the same, in short distances even better (I might attribute this to the strap allowing more aggressive pumping). I even feel as though I gain some extra torque with my front foot being further away from the mast.
My advice for the 3 minute setup: pump your little board with a paddle in your hands and use a front foot strap. It looks like a lot of sup riders are using it to their advantage. But again this brings up the age old question, should you be measuring your flights in distance or in time? I personally think distance. Since your goal is to achieve unlimited flight you need a fast board that can get you from wake to wake in the least amount of time, once at the wake you can regain energy and the process continues of wake hopping and energy recover. I have experienced this recently, I have a foil with extreme amount of lift but soooo slow. Since it's slow I am killing myself to get to the next wave. My other foil (super fast) I can cover more distance in less time and therefore seemingly always be on a wave. Sorry if I'm being a bit of a broken record.. Awesome videos! Without a doubt you produce the most structured, scientific, well documented surf foil research that is available to the public right now!
Matthew! Awesome suggestions. The front foot strap isn't in the right spot on my board, but I really like that idea ... like a cyclist with clip in pedals! I will measure in distance now that I can with Apple Watch. It's just easier to measure time than distance for this test. You're absolutely right. I am now wondering if I can actually go further by going slower ... power needed to overcome drag is the cubic of velocity, so if I slow down a bit, my exertion goes way down, and maybe our distance further ... like the tortoise and hare! Thanks again for these suggestions. I'll let you know how it goes.
@@WakeThief Excited for whats to come!
@@WakeThief it is sqare with velocity not cubic ;) I think the way will be: go faster, go further, build better foils with thinner profiles and same energy requirement and lift (it will stall earlier, but this is managable )
Power is cube & force is square, no?
@@WakeThief oh sorry, just read "... drag is the cubic of velocity" my fault -.-
A good pumping description might be "im pushing the board down and the fins underneath it are causing resistance in the water which then pushes me back upwards" or if thats too long, "I push down and forward then the fins/water pushes me back up"
That's super good! I'll use that in future videos. Thank you.
Would it be almost like a bird flapping it's wings but in water?
I just discovered this, it looks fun
Yes! Well said. If I can help, let me know. Wakethief@icloud.com
Haha. I have got that question a lot of times too...but never gave that answer. Gonna remember :)
Ha! Best response I’ve been recommended in the comments is a dolphin swimming
Almost heaven, West Virginia
Blue Ridge Mountains, Shenandoah River
Life is old there, older than the trees
Younger than the mountains, growin' like a breeze
Take me home
Great video! Sick skills! Can’t wait to pioneer this in my town!
Awesome! Thank you. If I can help in any way, please let me know. Wakethief@icloud.com
For a mere $12,500.00 everyone can enjoy this practical everyman's enjoyable fun. So take out a mortgage & come have fun
Another great video! Just about to buy a new board and I made my choice! 👍 thank you!
Great! Glad you enjoyed it.
Learn from a fish
Thank you for posting. A great report with little wasted time.
Thanks, Jeff!
Riding on the back of a dolphin 🐬
Perfect!
I don't pump but kitefoil. I have to say though I enjoy your videos. I appreciate the detail, thoroughness and effort and the narration is top shelf. Please keep it up.
Great response! I cracked up🤣
Lol. Glad you liked it. I hope you're well, Skaleezay!
Love that you shred all seasons, Rain or shine! Or Snow 🤘🏼
Thank you!
nothing motivates you to keep pumping more than 32F water
Lol. Isn’t that the truth. My water is 80F now. Hard to imagine it being 32F like it was!
nice, what would happen with a longer column (distance between board and foil), you could do less but harder pumps? maybe faster since accelerate down?
Please record your longest pump ever in one cut
You bet. You can find it here: ua-cam.com/video/yUgfmvJLGy0/v-deo.html