That's the trouble with reviews from people who didn't pay for the filament. He's not wrong that the filament is great for scenarios that it's most suitable for, but the fact that it's ridiculous for situations where ABS or ASA (or even PLA/PETG) would just as well. It's pretty incredible material. For the price, however, it still niche. I'll be glad to start seeing comparison between this new filament and other 'engineering' materials like PA6/PA12 (GF and CF reinforced), since they are all around the same price, give or take.
Goodbye to old filaments? Not at $200 per kg it's not. It's certainly an interesting material, but I'd rather stick with some type of fiber-reinforced filament given the price.
Does fiber reinforcement actually make pieces any stronger, though? My understanding is that the carbon fiber is chopped far too short to provide any real strength, which normally comes from many long parallel stands of carbon fiber. Instead, the carbon fiber adds stiffness and dimensional stability.
Having it print at a different orientation would minimize the tip breakage seen. What you had was layer separation, I know you probably did it standing up to allow it to print without supports but canting it to a 45-degree angle or such would eliminate the layers running along fracture angles.
I'm reminded of car bodies made with a chopper spray gun, that cut glass fibers into short pieces and spray them along with fiberglass resin. I saw such a car in a wrecking yard; the chassis was there, but the body had disintegrated. I don't like thinking about what happened to the driver when the body turned into shrapnel.
Ppacf is a huge game changer. I watched a guy print an elephant figure and then stand on it. Fuzzy skin makes the finished product look so much better and gives that Bedliner look and feel in things.
@yakostudios5405 Look up- After 11 Prototypes, I finally did it. from Morley Kert. He stands on the mini Elephant figure in it and also makes a killer part for the One wheel.
"I watched a guy print an elephant figure and then stand on it" So? Tests have shown even a screw thread printed in PLA can hold up to 50kg, you don't need special filament for most purposes. And on top you don't risk your lungs with carbon fiber dust.
I understand why people don’t think this changes anything because of the price but proving you can achieve this level of strength on an fdm printer is HUGE
@@TheSolongsidekick well, I didn’t know it was this strong or easy to print so it’s a big deal to me, even if I don’t buy it from bambu. I make car parts and mostly use petg cf.
@@helli3088 Uhh maybe, go look for it, seems like the thing there would be a billion variants and similar designs out there. But I still wouldn't print it with an FDM printer if you can avoid it, a tough resin like Blu with like 10% flex resin mixed is going to be exponentially stronger. No layers to potentially delaminate and way more watertight as well. You can get good resin printers for under 500 bucks these days.
The filament is PPA-CF - a carbon filled nylon. $150 per kg. Requires a hardened steel nozzle, an enclosed printer and a filament drying set-up. Tensile strength gains are highly dependent on print and filament quality and the best gains are 50% - many videos discuss this.
I think I used PETG to make some custom offset body mounts for my trx-4... I was genuinely impressed that my hole openings printed to their true geometry and it could survive a fall onto the body without shattering.
PPACF stands for Polypropylene Added Carbon Fiber. This is pretty self-explanatory then, assuming you already know what PP is. It's one of the most used plastics because of low cost, ease of manufacturing (injection molding), sufficient rigidity and being cheap. Any type of plastic bucket or box basically uses this - and a whole range of other objects. Carbon fiber adds extra strength and rigidity, while PP is already excellent at resisting almost all chemicals and moisture. Pure PP has issues with shrinking and warping as it cools if you print with it - making detailed parts difficult - but carbon fiber reinforcement reduces this problem greatly. The caveats are you need high heat to print it - so some less expensive printers will need a little modding. An enclosed printing space and thermal control would be a must - but that stuff is DIYable withhold breaking the bank. Secondly, like with all filaments that use fiber reinforcement it will be rough on nozzles and wear out standard brass ones fast. You need a higher grade of hardened steel or better if you are going you use this on the regular. I don't have personal experience with it, but fiber reinforced plastics certainly have a lot of potential for strength.
Gonna be honest i just stumbled across this channel so im not sure of your 3d printing knowledge but there are many methods to make some very strong prints using some very cheap filaments such as ABS, ASA, PC, Nylon, etc. As far as body panels go there are also cheaper semi flexible filaments such as the harder TPU filaments that will retain shape and take a hell of beating. You mentioned you have an X1C i would recommend looking into multi material prints as well. Just some friendly advise from someone whos deep in the 3d printing world hope this helps at least someone here
Game changer! In my opinion, 3D Printing has become more about the materials in recent years. Form fit and function for prototyping has evolved into material performance and capability.
I offered 3d printing services with a Markforged Onyx printer for years. The issue is people dont want to pay the extra cost for the quality. Its often not viable to print a part that you can jist purchase for less, unless it means you can provide it locally or it is a custom part.
Avoiding cf filaments here for now. These chopped fibers are very small and not always well encapsulated in the final print. Not convinced there are no health issues. Further tests show little improvement over the base material properties.
There is also no evidence f any real health issues either. How were you testing the material? Holding the same print in both a fibre filled and non filled material you can clearly tell a difference in most cases.
@conorstewart2214 hold a cf part and then zoom in on your hand with a decent macro lense mode on a phone or get a cheap microscope. You will see the CF pieces embedded in your skin.
@@conorstewart2214 you keep commenting about this, just stop. You don’t have any idea what you’re talking about. There are several videos very recently put out demonstrating that the carbon fiber strands very easily get embedded in your skin. Go do some research before you spout nonsense on the Internet.
Ive been going thru your videos the past couple of weeks and keep noticing the f1 shirts. I make parts for F1 cars for my day job but come play with rc cars when i get home. Its cool seeing people from NA into f1
Started with Elegoo printers but I think I will upgrade to a bamboo lab printer. Had to teach my old self how to do all this 3d printing so time for an upgrade. This material looks great.✌👍
Can you try using it in small printed tools? Like allen wrenches or screwdrivers? Or scissors/knives and see how well the edges hold? Maybe also see how good it is at replacing common weakpoints in prints. Could be good to keep around to use here and there (sparingly) to reinforce certain parts of prints that are failing like in some more complex mechanisms for example. Also could maybe be good as a rigid skeleton to slap other weaker/cheaper/faster printing materials onto.
That boat was insane! This was nice to see as I just had a bumper printed by a friend who did it in PLA and just leaning with weight broke it so good to see other filaments with high strength out there, I’m new to this and so is my friend who printed the part 😂
I often 3d Print with Pet-G, I designed few products and sell them, they're doing good in high UV and high Humidity Environments, so far, I sold close to hundred products so far as a hobby, but Now I am going to test ABS printing soon... lets see which one is better
Maybe I missed it but did you discuss on the health issues that come with CF materials? It has been shown that the micro carbon fibers are dispensing into the air while printing. And even when the object is done the fibers will abrade into you hand until you eventually swallow or inhale them. CF unfortunately is not without issues. The only way to prevent it is to paint or glue the surface as you usually see with all the industrial manufactured CF parts.
damn son, you gettin' at it with that boat 😂😂 awesome video, I had no idea I could get filament that strong and heat resistant, that opens a whole new world of fun stuff to tinker with. I'm gonna design an intake manifold for my pickup now 🤩🤩
Ohhhh very nice! Definitely looks stronger! I would imagine if we also print in higher infill it would withstand even more right? Love that you can print out spur gears and bumpers too!!
In fdm, perimeters matter more than infill for strength according to tests. Even maxing out perimeters for a solid print can be stronger and take less time printing than 100% infill.
Ive been cranking out fdm prints for my drifters (including actual suspension arms) from normal PLA. very interested in this stuff! Thanks you! Man i really gotta get back on the forums...
For $100/0.75kg it’s got to justify the price of printing parts you’d normally buy. While a gear is a good strength test to a degree, you’d really need to run it for many long hours before concluding if it’s as strong as a regular composite gear which would probably cost between $4-8 depending on the vehicle. The fact that it doesn’t implode immediately does make it test better than other common filaments but still, $100 and it needs to print enough parts (and be at least as strong as them) to outweigh the cost of just buying replacement parts. Very interesting nonetheless, I’d be curious to see how it works with parts like a-arms, wing mounts, but still those parts are usually pretty cheap (or, you print them in high infill TPU and they’re indestructible). Bit of a brain dump this morning, haven’t had my coffee yet.. I like that the industry is experimenting with different materials, trying to find optimal use cases for them all while keeping the price cheaper or at least on price parity with injection molded composite parts is what we’ll figure out in time.
I like that there are always new innovations with 3D printing, regardless of the hobby! I agree, it's not cheap, but in the long term- if everyone had a 3D printer- we could (in the future) probably print our own replacement parts for things that would normally end up in the landfill. Maybe I watched too much Star Trek Next Generation in my youth, but those replicators were amazing!
I would argue that you would not just print every piece out of this material. The best comparison would be if you have a use case where you actually want a metal part and this material may be used instead. Getting the required part 5-Axis-CNC machined would be much more expensive. The requirements of the project tell you what you need and to stay cost effective it is a good idea to choose a suitable material. If you don't need the stiffness and impact strength or heat resistance then it's just the wrong material. But if you do then you do then it is nice to have. Also no one says that the whole part needs to be printed of this material. Lets say you need that heat resistance because it contacts with a heated part, then you could just create an interfacing piece from this material and the rest from something cheaper.
That boat took a real hammering, but as a test it was anything but fair. Front part in one material and rear in another. The rear sure had an easier life.
I bet that spur gear will quiet down once used for awhile and with a tad of grease. After being used for awhile you can then set your gear mesh and wipe off any grease. The grease might help it work in without melting from friction. Just an idea 🤷♂️ I wonder how it will hold up to a brushless..
It seems like a fairly typical nylon with the exception that it legit has better bending modulus than PLA. The big questions are related to that: How toxic is it? How much of a pain is it to dry? How much does it tend to creep?
Long time watcher here and I’m glad to see you’re still creating great videos. I pop in and out of the RC hobby and I suffered from mechanical sympathy lol so while watching you repeatedly hit the rocks to prove toughness only I couldn’t help but think “We get it you vape!” Lol. Keep em coming and I hope all is well. And you should have the misses put more parts on more RC’s. 😇.
Something that is often missed is the relationship between stiffness and toughness. If two materials have the same strength but one is half the stiffness, it will have four times the toughness. This is because the material is acting as a spring and the energy absorbed by a spring is proportional to the square of the deflection. So toughness, which is the how much energy can be absorbed before before failing, is maximized by high strength and low stiffness. [edit] Actually, that's not quite correct. The formula for the energy stored by a spring is E = k * (x^2) , where k is the spring stiffness and x is the deflection. So with half the stiffness and the same applied force, the deflection will be doubled, and E = 0.5k * (2x)^2 = 2x^2, or in other words, toughness is doubled.
i have been printing functional, mechanical and high stress biek components out of CF-nylon and CF-PC forever. brake levers, shifter arms for a gp shift conversion, velocity stacks. some filaments really work well. need to test metal filament at some point though. electroplating looks like a nice touch
I make some extremely high-impact parts and might give this material a try. That said, I wonder if you have tried PETG-CF. PETG is stringy and flimsy, but has excellent layer adhesion. CF of course is very stiff and strong. When paired together it makes a very strong combination that is stiff but resiliant, easy to print, and doesn't string. Not as high-temp as PA of course, but better than PLA. Cost $46/kg.
PETG-CF is about half as strong as PA6-CF, which itself is half as stiff and 75% as impact resistant as this, lol. The layer adhesion is better on PETG-CF, but I think you'll find that the added strength more than makes up for it, where applicable
I'm interested to see how long that spur gear lasts. It seems, just from the limited running of the boat, that the material is plenty strong for a bumper or roll cage on a crawler. Good video 🤘y'all have a badass day🤘🍻🤘
Good video! Just wanted to add watch CNC Kitchen and My Tech Fun as they will give you insights to the strengths of each filament, PLA is one if not the strongest you can get however its impact strength is lower and in your case friction heat is way to low as PLA does not like to rub on other materials, but it will out hold better than any other filament under certain conditions temp and high load for extended times is not one of them. Another thing to think about is larger layer lines and an extra 10-15 degrees past normal printing also will add strength by better adhesion between layers but visual quality drops off. Its great they are really pushing what is possible with FDM printing.
PLA is “strong” but it really doesn’t come close to filaments like these especially when you take into account the other mechanical properties too. When printing things like gears then visual quality matters, any imperfection that you can see will likely be a surface imperfection that will effect friction or wear or how the gears mesh together.
I wonder how well the gears would hold up somewhere further down the line in the driveline. I am thinking they would break and jam it, but it could be a cool experiment. As it is, the spur is probably the safest place to start testing!
Very interesting. I work for a 3D printing research company, I'd love to put this through our stress testing platforms. I've just received an X1 Carbon :)
Im picking up a Bambu Labs P1 or A1 just to mess around and learn 3d printing, not FPV or Drones but Rc Crawling especially the scale crawlers is the reason im getting into 3d printing. Im stocked to start my journey all cause crawlers pushed me into getting one.
It´s PA with aromatic diacids which gives the material great mechanical properties, it´s quiet expensive though and you don´t need that CF filling, it marketing BS. GF filling is way cheaper and better.
Just to let you know that you didn't mention or I missed it but you can and is recommended to aneal the part(s) in the oven for 8 to 12 hours at temps between 80 to 100 C or 176 to 212 F which will make the part even stronger!
@@scalebuildersguild Actually I went back and watched it again and you didn't mention the anealing , just that you needed all metal hotend, for the abrasive resistance. Just an FYI. great video tho.
That filament seems to be really good just from watching your channel. I don’t even have a 3D printer but it would have been nice to see an idler gear from an older Axial 3 gear transmission on a Tekin ROC 412. 😂you never now.. thanks Matt!
Polycarbonate or PC is the strongest best value for money filament. Downside is it requiring an enclosure. PC CF overcomes this and is easier to print, but its layer adhesion isn’t as good as straight PC. Also not sure I want to use Fibre filaments after watching Nathan Builds Robots video on the topic.
You should not listen to someone that doesn’t understand nano tubes versus ground up cf. next pc has nothing on ppa. Some of these comments are mind blowing .
You could try to print every other layer with PC-CF and the others with normal PC. Maybe that improves layer bonding. I wish there was such a setting in orca slicer, but you can do this via custom color changes after each layer in orca slicer. It's just an idea, i have not tested it myself, yet.
@@bbc92314 If you are going on pure performance PPA CF is great, but that is not what I said. I was pointing out that PC has great price/performance. $209 USD for a role, is no longer a hobby grade filament.
Sweet material, I love new engineering materials to test out. The price comes with quality filament, its expensive but usually worth it depending on your application. Heads up on printing gears with carbon fiber material, you may end up with excessive or premature wearing of that gear (more likely whatever its touching) because carbon fiber is abrasive so it will essentially grind away at whatever gear its up against. A normal Pa6 or Pa12 would probably work better for the long run, in my experience.
Try Sunlu PLA+, it's super strong and cheap too, reasonably easy to print with as long as you dont try to go too fast with printing (they have a high speed version too, but haven't tried that yet).
But will it still break along layer lines? In the past I've had to be very careful to print with specific orientation to help prevent this, but sometimes there's nothing you can do.
Nice!!! Is that boat riding a little nose heavy? It looks like the nose should ride a little higher with the jet lower in the water… or is it just me? Great work as usual bro!!! My birthday is today so I think I’ll grab some of that filament for my birthday! I have 2 P1S with hardened nozzles, but I also have two Creality K1Maxs and a CR10 all of which can handle higher temps and abrasives
What 3D Printer would you suggest for a first printer? I love customizing RCs of all walks. A Printer would certainly expand my capabilities to customize. I am very savy with modeling software, so that won't be a hindrance. Thank you for any input, I love the channel.
Nice video and content, thanks for such a good video and your thoughts about the new PPA-CF. My thoughts: Spur gear on a crawler is a good test to begin with, however not really a great test of the filament. I suggest that you print a spur. gear for a 1/8 scale electric off-road 4WD buggy which can run a 4S or a 6S LiPo and run the buggy on top speed and see how well does the spur gear really holds up. Cause that would really put a huge amount of stress on the gear and material and if the spur gear still holds up well by the time a 6000mAh battery is down to empty from full, then it would definitely be called a GAME CHANGING material and can be used for replacement of parts for RC cars.
That is so friggin cool! I want to build the boat. Thank you for testing and sharing about this new filament type. Where can I get more information about the boat you built? I want to build too.
I would highly recommend downloading the Supersprint v0.4 for the jet boat. I also built out the original and have since switch to the updated version and it is significantly better :)
How is the weight? I'd be interested in applying it to aircraft RC if it's lightweight enough, if not for everything for SOME things, like fan mounts etc.
People really underestimating how this impacts the local 3D printing applications. And to consider filaments can continue to improve is mind blowing and exciting.
I just got me a Bambu labs PS1 couldn’t go for the X1 carbon. Hopefully it will be huge upgrade to my creality CR10S Pro leveling the bed sucks so bad.
Very good test of two filaments at separate places but receiving very similar test conditions simultaneusly. You may want to try it for other of your models ... We'll watch ...
Matt, Thanks for being the Grand Poohbah of Gold Level Ding Dongs, this is great information. With that being said, is the finish/texture much different on this PPA-CF than the different versions of PLA? Being a CF based filament, what precautions do you take when shaping for sanding?
for 166$ a roll is crazy expensive. And it says it's only possible to print with X1C. I don't know why a P1s with hardened nozzle would not be able to print it. Nice review nonetheless, A PLA+ or tough spur gear would have yeet itself to the moon. I really like the 3d printing content. And do you have a link for that boat? looks awesome.
Search MJet on CGTrader. As for the price, yes it’s expensive, but if used sparingly on high stress areas, I can see it pay for itself rather quickly. P1S isn’t enclosed and needs to keep some mega high temps to print properly.
Taken straight from the product page: "Bambu PPA-CF is compatible with P1S, X1C, and X1E printers, requiring only an enclosure and a hardened steel nozzle. This filament is easier to use than you might think, printing smoothly at nozzle temperatures between 280°C and 310°C. Expand your possibilities with Bambu PPA-CF."
@@eighty-eighth_section That's what I thought. P1s is the same printer without the AI detection, camera and the screen. I will give it a try. Pretty sure my other 3d Printer can print it, a Flashforge 5M Pro.
Ok now the sound of that spur has me wondering if anyone has any spur gear prints that purposely "tune" the audio of the gear noise? 😮 Could be a "game changer" for my scale AE86 build!
48% stronger and 1000% more expensive. Just use TPU for the bumpers everyone.🤨
Yep. Harder TPU, like 72D or something is pretty indestructible.
That's the trouble with reviews from people who didn't pay for the filament. He's not wrong that the filament is great for scenarios that it's most suitable for, but the fact that it's ridiculous for situations where ABS or ASA (or even PLA/PETG) would just as well. It's pretty incredible material. For the price, however, it still niche. I'll be glad to start seeing comparison between this new filament and other 'engineering' materials like PA6/PA12 (GF and CF reinforced), since they are all around the same price, give or take.
Race drones have been using TPU for years. As long as your printer has a direct drive extruder it's easy to use.
@@Hotwire_RCTrix there's probably no mainstream printer built after 2023 which can't print TPU
@@antonkukoba3378 Thanks but I still wouldn't use a printer with a Bowden tube for printing a softer TPU.
Goodbye to old filaments? Not at $200 per kg it's not. It's certainly an interesting material, but I'd rather stick with some type of fiber-reinforced filament given the price.
Does fiber reinforcement actually make pieces any stronger, though? My understanding is that the carbon fiber is chopped far too short to provide any real strength, which normally comes from many long parallel stands of carbon fiber. Instead, the carbon fiber adds stiffness and dimensional stability.
@@SharpevilYes, it does. Stiffness/modulus is one measurement of strength.
@@Sharpevil Exactly what do you think tensile strength is?
@@Sharpevilyes, but between layers I have doubts
200 the Chinese will copy themself fast
YAY! 3D printing AND RC vehicles! My two favorites! RC is what got me into 3D printing 5 years ago.
Awesome! I love this part too!
Having it print at a different orientation would minimize the tip breakage seen. What you had was layer separation, I know you probably did it standing up to allow it to print without supports but canting it to a 45-degree angle or such would eliminate the layers running along fracture angles.
I'm reminded of car bodies made with a chopper spray gun, that cut glass fibers into short pieces and spray them along with fiberglass resin. I saw such a car in a wrecking yard; the chassis was there, but the body had disintegrated. I don't like thinking about what happened to the driver when the body turned into shrapnel.
Ppacf is a huge game changer. I watched a guy print an elephant figure and then stand on it. Fuzzy skin makes the finished product look so much better and gives that Bedliner look and feel in things.
@yakostudios5405 Look up- After 11 Prototypes, I finally did it. from Morley Kert. He stands on the mini Elephant figure in it and also makes a killer part for the One wheel.
@yakostudios5405, ua-cam.com/video/RzFl3H5293M/v-deo.htmlsi=LwlcrqOksKaGwgdP
@yakostudios5405 I guess it's from the latest video of Morley Kert.
"I watched a guy print an elephant figure and then stand on it"
So? Tests have shown even a screw thread printed in PLA can hold up to 50kg, you don't need special filament for most purposes. And on top you don't risk your lungs with carbon fiber dust.
I understand why people don’t think this changes anything because of the price but proving you can achieve this level of strength on an fdm printer is HUGE
Agreed!
No, it's not. There's absolutely nothing new about carbon fiber filled nylon. Get a grip.
@@TheSolongsidekick well, I didn’t know it was this strong or easy to print so it’s a big deal to me, even if I don’t buy it from bambu. I make car parts and mostly use petg cf.
Awsome! Is it possible to get the files for printing that boat?
@@helli3088 Uhh maybe, go look for it, seems like the thing there would be a billion variants and similar designs out there. But I still wouldn't print it with an FDM printer if you can avoid it, a tough resin like Blu with like 10% flex resin mixed is going to be exponentially stronger. No layers to potentially delaminate and way more watertight as well. You can get good resin printers for under 500 bucks these days.
Never seen a rock racing boat before! Love it!
I read your comment before watching that part of the video. I had scroll back so I could like your, very appropriate, comment.
The filament is PPA-CF - a carbon filled nylon. $150 per kg. Requires a hardened steel nozzle, an enclosed printer and a filament drying set-up. Tensile strength gains are highly dependent on print and filament quality and the best gains are 50% - many videos discuss this.
That ping pong ball desperately wants to join all the e clips that have zoomed off into the other dimensions 😂
😂
Your destructive boat testing is hilarious… bravo…!
Thank you!
I think I used PETG to make some custom offset body mounts for my trx-4... I was genuinely impressed that my hole openings printed to their true geometry and it could survive a fall onto the body without shattering.
Cool to see one of your favorite UA-cam channels use one of your models for a material review. Had fun designing those Tacoma wheels.
Right on! Love those wheels, thank you!!
PPACF stands for Polypropylene Added Carbon Fiber. This is pretty self-explanatory then, assuming you already know what PP is. It's one of the most used plastics because of low cost, ease of manufacturing (injection molding), sufficient rigidity and being cheap. Any type of plastic bucket or box basically uses this - and a whole range of other objects. Carbon fiber adds extra strength and rigidity, while PP is already excellent at resisting almost all chemicals and moisture. Pure PP has issues with shrinking and warping as it cools if you print with it - making detailed parts difficult - but carbon fiber reinforcement reduces this problem greatly.
The caveats are you need high heat to print it - so some less expensive printers will need a little modding. An enclosed printing space and thermal control would be a must - but that stuff is DIYable withhold breaking the bank.
Secondly, like with all filaments that use fiber reinforcement it will be rough on nozzles and wear out standard brass ones fast. You need a higher grade of hardened steel or better if you are going you use this on the regular.
I don't have personal experience with it, but fiber reinforced plastics certainly have a lot of potential for strength.
Gonna be honest i just stumbled across this channel so im not sure of your 3d printing knowledge but there are many methods to make some very strong prints using some very cheap filaments such as ABS, ASA, PC, Nylon, etc. As far as body panels go there are also cheaper semi flexible filaments such as the harder TPU filaments that will retain shape and take a hell of beating. You mentioned you have an X1C i would recommend looking into multi material prints as well. Just some friendly advise from someone whos deep in the 3d printing world hope this helps at least someone here
This is a game changer, 😂… you had me at hello sir. Lol
Ha! You complete me! 😂
Oh man I need to finish putting my boat together ( All printed out). What fun!
Game changer! In my opinion, 3D Printing has become more about the materials in recent years. Form fit and function for prototyping has evolved into material performance and capability.
Agreed! Thanks for watching!
I offered 3d printing services with a Markforged Onyx printer for years. The issue is people dont want to pay the extra cost for the quality. Its often not viable to print a part that you can jist purchase for less, unless it means you can provide it locally or it is a custom part.
Avoiding cf filaments here for now. These chopped fibers are very small and not always well encapsulated in the final print. Not convinced there are no health issues.
Further tests show little improvement over the base material properties.
There is also no evidence f any real health issues either. How were you testing the material? Holding the same print in both a fibre filled and non filled material you can clearly tell a difference in most cases.
@@conorstewart2214won't deny the prints are lighter or have a different look.
@conorstewart2214 hold a cf part and then zoom in on your hand with a decent macro lense mode on a phone or get a cheap microscope. You will see the CF pieces embedded in your skin.
@@conorstewart2214 you keep commenting about this, just stop. You don’t have any idea what you’re talking about. There are several videos very recently put out demonstrating that the carbon fiber strands very easily get embedded in your skin. Go do some research before you spout nonsense on the Internet.
Please stop. Learn the difference between cf nano tubes and ground cf.
Ive been going thru your videos the past couple of weeks and keep noticing the f1 shirts. I make parts for F1 cars for my day job but come play with rc cars when i get home. Its cool seeing people from NA into f1
I'm a huge fan of F1 and hope to be able to go to a race one day! That is so cool that you make parts for the cars.
Started with Elegoo printers but I think I will upgrade to a bamboo lab printer. Had to teach my old self how to do all this 3d printing so time for an upgrade. This material looks great.✌👍
Go for it! Never too old to learn new things! And my wife says we're never old, just old-er.
@@scalebuildersguild Yup, I'm Technologically Brain dead so I have to sneak up on this stuff very slowly. Looking forward to it though!👍
What a saver ! Thanks God its not overpriced to the hell ! Nice and affordable, awesome ! :)
Good to know my sarcasm detector isn’t broken.
@@scalebuildersguild
Can you try using it in small printed tools? Like allen wrenches or screwdrivers? Or scissors/knives and see how well the edges hold?
Maybe also see how good it is at replacing common weakpoints in prints. Could be good to keep around to use here and there (sparingly) to reinforce certain parts of prints that are failing like in some more complex mechanisms for example.
Also could maybe be good as a rigid skeleton to slap other weaker/cheaper/faster printing materials onto.
That boat was insane! This was nice to see as I just had a bumper printed by a friend who did it in PLA and just leaning with weight broke it so good to see other filaments with high strength out there, I’m new to this and so is my friend who printed the part 😂
I often 3d Print with Pet-G, I designed few products and sell them, they're doing good in high UV and high Humidity Environments, so far, I sold close to hundred products so far as a hobby, but Now I am going to test ABS printing soon... lets see which one is better
Maybe I missed it but did you discuss on the health issues that come with CF materials? It has been shown that the micro carbon fibers are dispensing into the air while printing. And even when the object is done the fibers will abrade into you hand until you eventually swallow or inhale them. CF unfortunately is not without issues. The only way to prevent it is to paint or glue the surface as you usually see with all the industrial manufactured CF parts.
I've read other claims that is mostly debunked at this point.
damn son, you gettin' at it with that boat 😂😂 awesome video, I had no idea I could get filament that strong and heat resistant, that opens a whole new world of fun stuff to tinker with. I'm gonna design an intake manifold for my pickup now 🤩🤩
Agreed!
Ohhhh very nice! Definitely looks stronger! I would imagine if we also print in higher infill it would withstand even more right? Love that you can print out spur gears and bumpers too!!
In fdm, perimeters matter more than infill for strength according to tests. Even maxing out perimeters for a solid print can be stronger and take less time printing than 100% infill.
It seems the tip had infill? I wonder if the extreme edges could be reinforced with less infill.
Ive been cranking out fdm prints for my drifters (including actual suspension arms) from normal PLA. very interested in this stuff! Thanks you!
Man i really gotta get back on the forums...
For $100/0.75kg it’s got to justify the price of printing parts you’d normally buy. While a gear is a good strength test to a degree, you’d really need to run it for many long hours before concluding if it’s as strong as a regular composite gear which would probably cost between $4-8 depending on the vehicle. The fact that it doesn’t implode immediately does make it test better than other common filaments but still, $100 and it needs to print enough parts (and be at least as strong as them) to outweigh the cost of just buying replacement parts.
Very interesting nonetheless, I’d be curious to see how it works with parts like a-arms, wing mounts, but still those parts are usually pretty cheap (or, you print them in high infill TPU and they’re indestructible). Bit of a brain dump this morning, haven’t had my coffee yet..
I like that the industry is experimenting with different materials, trying to find optimal use cases for them all while keeping the price cheaper or at least on price parity with injection molded composite parts is what we’ll figure out in time.
I like that there are always new innovations with 3D printing, regardless of the hobby! I agree, it's not cheap, but in the long term- if everyone had a 3D printer- we could (in the future) probably print our own replacement parts for things that would normally end up in the landfill. Maybe I watched too much Star Trek Next Generation in my youth, but those replicators were amazing!
I would argue that you would not just print every piece out of this material. The best comparison would be if you have a use case where you actually want a metal part and this material may be used instead. Getting the required part 5-Axis-CNC machined would be much more expensive.
The requirements of the project tell you what you need and to stay cost effective it is a good idea to choose a suitable material.
If you don't need the stiffness and impact strength or heat resistance then it's just the wrong material. But if you do then you do then it is nice to have.
Also no one says that the whole part needs to be printed of this material. Lets say you need that heat resistance because it contacts with a heated part, then you could just create an interfacing piece from this material and the rest from something cheaper.
That boat took a real hammering, but as a test it was anything but fair. Front part in one material and rear in another. The rear sure had an easier life.
I like the idea of a CF ping pong ball with a textured surface for extra shot curving :) Would make a really cool project.
I bet that spur gear will quiet down once used for awhile and with a tad of grease.
After being used for awhile you can then set your gear mesh and wipe off any grease.
The grease might help it work in without melting from friction.
Just an idea 🤷♂️
I wonder how it will hold up to a brushless..
It seems like a fairly typical nylon with the exception that it legit has better bending modulus than PLA. The big questions are related to that: How toxic is it? How much of a pain is it to dry? How much does it tend to creep?
carbon fiber in it , is like asbestos, no thanks
Its been tested as significantly stronger than typical nylons on other channels at this point.
I can appreciate that you were not being nice during the testing 😂😂😂 real world test right there 😂😂😂
Long time watcher here and I’m glad to see you’re still creating great videos. I pop in and out of the RC hobby and I suffered from mechanical sympathy lol so while watching you repeatedly hit the rocks to prove toughness only I couldn’t help but think “We get it you vape!” Lol. Keep em coming and I hope all is well. And you should have the misses put more parts on more RC’s. 😇.
Thanks for watching! She'll never agree to being part regularly, but she was a good sport, that's for sure!
Something that is often missed is the relationship between stiffness and toughness.
If two materials have the same strength but one is half the stiffness, it will have four times the toughness.
This is because the material is acting as a spring and the energy absorbed by a spring is proportional to the square of the deflection.
So toughness, which is the how much energy can be absorbed before before failing, is maximized by high strength and low stiffness.
[edit] Actually, that's not quite correct. The formula for the energy stored by a spring is E = k * (x^2) , where k is the spring stiffness and x is the deflection.
So with half the stiffness and the same applied force, the deflection will be doubled, and E = 0.5k * (2x)^2 = 2x^2, or in other words, toughness is doubled.
That is so interesting! Thanks so much for sharing!
😂🤣😂🤣
That boat makes me think about the movie Bait Shop..
I actually like it..
Has that don't F with me look . 👍
i have been printing functional, mechanical and high stress biek components out of CF-nylon and CF-PC forever. brake levers, shifter arms for a gp shift conversion, velocity stacks. some filaments really work well. need to test metal filament at some point though. electroplating looks like a nice touch
Thanks for the tip!
I make some extremely high-impact parts and might give this material a try. That said, I wonder if you have tried PETG-CF. PETG is stringy and flimsy, but has excellent layer adhesion. CF of course is very stiff and strong. When paired together it makes a very strong combination that is stiff but resiliant, easy to print, and doesn't string. Not as high-temp as PA of course, but better than PLA. Cost $46/kg.
PETG-CF is about half as strong as PA6-CF, which itself is half as stiff and 75% as impact resistant as this, lol. The layer adhesion is better on PETG-CF, but I think you'll find that the added strength more than makes up for it, where applicable
I'm interested to see how long that spur gear lasts. It seems, just from the limited running of the boat, that the material is plenty strong for a bumper or roll cage on a crawler. Good video 🤘y'all have a badass day🤘🍻🤘
The boat: incredible! Thx for the video
Thanks for watching!
Good video! Just wanted to add watch CNC Kitchen and My Tech Fun as they will give you insights to the strengths of each filament, PLA is one if not the strongest you can get however its impact strength is lower and in your case friction heat is way to low as PLA does not like to rub on other materials, but it will out hold better than any other filament under certain conditions temp and high load for extended times is not one of them. Another thing to think about is larger layer lines and an extra 10-15 degrees past normal printing also will add strength by better adhesion between layers but visual quality drops off. Its great they are really pushing what is possible with FDM printing.
PLA is “strong” but it really doesn’t come close to filaments like these especially when you take into account the other mechanical properties too.
When printing things like gears then visual quality matters, any imperfection that you can see will likely be a surface imperfection that will effect friction or wear or how the gears mesh together.
@@conorstewart2214 that is very correct
I wonder how well the gears would hold up somewhere further down the line in the driveline. I am thinking they would break and jam it, but it could be a cool experiment. As it is, the spur is probably the safest place to start testing!
My wife or my son always call to me or walk in while I am recording videos. I thought I was the only one llol
Very interesting. I work for a 3D printing research company, I'd love to put this through our stress testing platforms. I've just received an X1 Carbon :)
Im picking up a Bambu Labs P1 or A1 just to mess around and learn 3d printing, not FPV or Drones but Rc Crawling especially the scale crawlers is the reason im getting into 3d printing. Im stocked to start my journey all cause crawlers pushed me into getting one.
Great choice! Thanks for watching!
Incredible material! Very nice report on it!
Glad you enjoyed it!
It´s PA with aromatic diacids which gives the material great mechanical properties, it´s quiet expensive though and you don´t need that CF filling, it marketing BS. GF filling is way cheaper and better.
Just to let you know that you didn't mention or I missed it but you can and is recommended to aneal the part(s) in the oven for 8 to 12 hours at temps between 80 to 100 C or 176 to 212 F which will make the part even stronger!
Yes I’m pretty sure I mentioned it! Very important!
@@scalebuildersguild Actually I went back and watched it again and you didn't mention the anealing , just that you needed all metal hotend, for the abrasive resistance. Just an FYI. great video tho.
@@cowboy124aa3I did mention drying, didn’t I? Maybe not annealing!
That filament seems to be really good just from watching your channel. I don’t even have a 3D printer but it would have been nice to see an idler gear from an older Axial 3 gear transmission on a Tekin ROC 412. 😂you never now.. thanks Matt!
Polycarbonate or PC is the strongest best value for money filament. Downside is it requiring an enclosure. PC CF overcomes this and is easier to print, but its layer adhesion isn’t as good as straight PC. Also not sure I want to use Fibre filaments after watching Nathan Builds Robots video on the topic.
You should not listen to someone that doesn’t understand nano tubes versus ground up cf. next pc has nothing on ppa. Some of these comments are mind blowing .
You could try to print every other layer with PC-CF and the others with normal PC. Maybe that improves layer bonding. I wish there was such a setting in orca slicer, but you can do this via custom color changes after each layer in orca slicer.
It's just an idea, i have not tested it myself, yet.
@@bbc92314 If you are going on pure performance PPA CF is great, but that is not what I said. I was pointing out that PC has great price/performance. $209 USD for a role, is no longer a hobby grade filament.
Did you anneal you prints? That should make it even stronger.
Loved that you kept in the interruption 😂
What would you say about using this in a go kart? Say for panels for the go kart?
Could it be used for medical aplications like PEEK but easier to print? Does it need a very special setup? (extrusion temperature)
I don't think the carbon fibre content makes it a safe replacement in the medical field
Sweet material, I love new engineering materials to test out. The price comes with quality filament, its expensive but usually worth it depending on your application. Heads up on printing gears with carbon fiber material, you may end up with excessive or premature wearing of that gear (more likely whatever its touching) because carbon fiber is abrasive so it will essentially grind away at whatever gear its up against. A normal Pa6 or Pa12 would probably work better for the long run, in my experience.
Try Sunlu PLA+, it's super strong and cheap too, reasonably easy to print with as long as you dont try to go too fast with printing (they have a high speed version too, but haven't tried that yet).
Thanks for the tip!
How is your channel not at 100K subs this is my comment prediction that you get that plaque by the end of the year!
I really hope so! Thanks for watching!
For the boat hull, what glue did you use for this filament?
The price is just ridiculous 🤮
Fair enough, thanks for watching!
I read for PLA strength you should use 100% walls and no infill.
Great review thats kind of a game changer for home / small business operations.
I wonder if a little lapping compound would help the noise of the spur gear.
I don't have a 3d printer someday love the channel. Always watch, stay safe. Hopefully, I can say hi at Pro-Line next week
Make sure to come and say hi! Thanks for watching and looking forward to PLBTF!
PEEK filament, if an hobby printer can afford to print it😢
How does it hold up if you spray it with hairspray?
The ultimate test.
But will it still break along layer lines? In the past I've had to be very careful to print with specific orientation to help prevent this, but sometimes there's nothing you can do.
Of course, orientation makes a world of difference when you can!
Nice!!! Is that boat riding a little nose heavy? It looks like the nose should ride a little higher with the jet lower in the water… or is it just me?
Great work as usual bro!!! My birthday is today so I think I’ll grab some of that filament for my birthday! I have 2 P1S with hardened nozzles, but I also have two Creality K1Maxs and a CR10 all of which can handle higher temps and abrasives
Very curious to know how a suspension arm would hold up? Like on a slash or something of that matter.
I’ll see what files I can find and will try it. My one caution, there’s usually flex built into those types of parts for a reason.
Two great projects! That spur is too noisy to be practical but shows how strong this new material is! Big price difference between it and regular PLA?
Thanks for testing this stuff!
No problem!
What 3D Printer would you suggest for a first printer? I love customizing RCs of all walks. A Printer would certainly expand my capabilities to customize. I am very savy with modeling software, so that won't be a hindrance. Thank you for any input, I love the channel.
I’m a big fan of BambuLabs, they are such great printers. The A1 is a good place to start, but has its own shortcomings over the big dogs.
This is material I have ordered for prototyping a machine drive-train system with... i have high expectations as even PLA has been sussussful.
I’ve never seen a RC car operated so carefully
Nice video and content, thanks for such a good video and your thoughts about the new PPA-CF.
My thoughts:
Spur gear on a crawler is a good test to begin with, however not really a great test of the filament. I suggest that you print a spur. gear for a 1/8 scale electric off-road 4WD buggy which can run a 4S or a 6S LiPo and run the buggy on top speed and see how well does the spur gear really holds up. Cause that would really put a huge amount of stress on the gear and material and if the spur gear still holds up well by the time a 6000mAh battery is down to empty from full, then it would definitely be called a GAME CHANGING material and can be used for replacement of parts for RC cars.
That is so friggin cool! I want to build the boat. Thank you for testing and sharing about this new filament type. Where can I get more information about the boat you built? I want to build too.
Search "MJet" on CGTrader.
WOOW what an amazing speed that RC boat has....dang! At first I thought is was FFwd! looool...How fast does it go?
Not sure I’ve never measured the speed. It is pretty fun though!
Approximately? Because I realy have no clue!
I would highly recommend downloading the Supersprint v0.4 for the jet boat. I also built out the original and have since switch to the updated version and it is significantly better :)
Thanks for the tip!
Best parts of this video is wife calling and ping pong ball goofing around.
Thanks for the info 👍 and what scale is the body you printed?
How is the weight? I'd be interested in applying it to aircraft RC if it's lightweight enough, if not for everything for SOME things, like fan mounts etc.
Do you notice any adverse effects to the nozzle? Nm you answered my question.
People really underestimating how this impacts the local 3D printing applications. And to consider filaments can continue to improve is mind blowing and exciting.
I’m glad that some people are enthusiastic instead of flat-out dismissing it! Thanks for your comment!
and it prints good on the a1 ? and also there is this filament called tollumer it coasts even more and is even stronger
You cannot print this on an open printer. A1 included.
I just got me a Bambu labs PS1 couldn’t go for the X1 carbon. Hopefully it will be huge upgrade to my creality CR10S Pro leveling the bed sucks so bad.
Enjoy!
Do you need a heating chamber to print?
Yes, an enclosed printer is required.
Love seeing you in the Bambu subreddit, soon as I heard you chime in about this material, I knew I had to get some for my Bambu!
Hope you enjoy it! I love reddit!
Thanks for the information on the new product
Any time!
Very good test of two filaments at separate places but receiving very similar test conditions simultaneusly. You may want to try it for other of your models ... We'll watch ...
Neat video I know nothing about 3D printing 😂
Matt, Thanks for being the Grand Poohbah of Gold Level Ding Dongs, this is great information. With that being said, is the finish/texture much different on this PPA-CF than the different versions of PLA? Being a CF based filament, what precautions do you take when shaping for sanding?
You’d want to wear full PPE when sanding, not something I’d do without a full mask and eye protection.
for 166$ a roll is crazy expensive. And it says it's only possible to print with X1C. I don't know why a P1s with hardened nozzle would not be able to print it.
Nice review nonetheless, A PLA+ or tough spur gear would have yeet itself to the moon. I really like the 3d printing content.
And do you have a link for that boat? looks awesome.
Search MJet on CGTrader. As for the price, yes it’s expensive, but if used sparingly on high stress areas, I can see it pay for itself rather quickly. P1S isn’t enclosed and needs to keep some mega high temps to print properly.
mjet supersprint
and ragnarok rc boat
It's actually only $100 per 750 g spool right now. The P1S is enclosed and supported, as long as you use a hardened nozzle and hardened extruder.
Taken straight from the product page:
"Bambu PPA-CF is compatible with P1S, X1C, and X1E printers, requiring only an enclosure and a hardened steel nozzle. This filament is easier to use than you might think, printing smoothly at nozzle temperatures between 280°C and 310°C. Expand your possibilities with Bambu PPA-CF."
@@eighty-eighth_section That's what I thought. P1s is the same printer without the AI detection, camera and the screen.
I will give it a try. Pretty sure my other 3d Printer can print it, a Flashforge 5M Pro.
Don't tease us with the possibility of Rebecca joining the video... cruel. ❤😂
Ha! I can't afford to have her on too much- it was an expensive bribe last time!
Would the p1s be able to print this stuff?
pctg has been my goto for gears and sturdy prints so far. this is interesting imo.
Ok now the sound of that spur has me wondering if anyone has any spur gear prints that purposely "tune" the audio of the gear noise? 😮
Could be a "game changer" for my scale AE86 build!
You must have scared the bejesus out of the fish 😆
Drying Settings (Blast Drying Oven) 100 - 140°C, 8 - 12 h...... wow, how did you dry yours? my sunlu only goes up to 80c i think.
I have the SunLu, you can do it for twice as long at a lower temp.