Is My Mash/Wash Safe To Distill?
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- Опубліковано 25 лип 2024
- Trying to decide if your wash is safe to distil? Worried that it has sat too long? What if it turned to vinegar? Should you worry about botulism?
The answer is nearly always "Yes its safe" let's talk about why.
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#Podcast #homebrew #distilling
Just in case you didn’t realize I often include affiliate links in my videos and descriptions.
This will not change the price for you at all, But the seller will buy my a cup of coffee if you purchase from one of the links. Choice eh? - Навчання та стиль
My rule of thumb is that if you ask how it is doing and it talks back, don't put it through the distiller :-)
If it talks back, take another drink!! Lol
🤣🤣 if it talks back you have been drinking heads I guess
Thats why water purifiers have always been important.
Bona fide brewing microbiologist checking in. Good discussion. pH sub 4.5 will keep you safe for sure (a little ethanol % never hurt too)...BUT the overzealous fermentation buffer guy needs to take heed. We've all had tap water sugar washes crash hard and yeast flock out short of dryness due to pH being out of yeast biological operating range (too low). So some folks will buffer this with something Calcium Carbonate based....or even Calcium/Sodium Hydroxide. If a wash is front loaded with a very high pH clostridum could certainly take hold along with some other enteric beasties. It might even halt the fermentation completely (that would take a lot).
So just remember....buffering with chalk or oyster shells is good and usually necessary if not running all grain ferments (which have tons of buffering capacity) but monitor with pH strips. It shouldn't ever go above 5.5 or dip below 3.5...start to finish....even if you're doing some weird ass lacto soured thing.
Lastly if you do get off flavors/aromas...they may or may not distill out. Check the boiling point of the compound and if it's anywhere near 170F you can't seperate it from ethanol. For instance Diacetyl (butterish aroma). If your mash smells like it, your distillate will smell like a CONCENTRATED version. Also bear in mind the sensitivity threshold. Look at Butryic Acid (vomit smell). The boiling point is much higher than ethanol but the sensory threshold is wickedly small....so if your wash just barely resembles it, your distillate could reek of it (it'll be in the tails if you do).
Ok my fingers are tired.
As alway a ph question. My ph always drops below 3.5 for my all grain mashes. Usually it is around 3.3-3 with a remaining gravitiy around 1.020/1.015. From that point the ferment is very very slow. Is there a way to keep it up without buffering oder adding things during the ferment?
@@deniselias5405 Simply adding something like calcium carbonate isn't technically buffering, although it kinda is, it's actually changing the alkalinity of the water. You can use an actual buffer (weak acid/conjugate base) if you want to try and prevent the pH from dropping huge amounts.
I'd just like to point out that boiling point isn't everything, and it often takes a back seat to other properties like solubility and density. Isoamyl acetate is a good example of that, it comes out in the heads cut, but it has a BP of 122C/288F. Simply because it will be floating on the surface of the wash and evaporate away. Ethyl acetate is another example at 77C/170F, it has a low water solubility (and even lower at higher temps), and low density, so an overwhelming majority of it gets expelled in the heads cut as well. But since it has some water solubility (due to the slight hydrogen bonding between water and it), and it has a low odour threshold, you'll find some of it will inevitably show up in the hearts.
Adam W You're not wrong. The delicate dance is not only completely dynamic over the course of a distillation but difficult to predict. Not so difficult to repeat thank goodness!
Denis Elias why are you apprehensive about adding things to buffer pH crash in a wash that will be distilled?
Little anecdote to back up the "Drinking water was like russian roulette" quote. Living here in Antwerp (Belgium) for about a thousand years the only thing you could safely drink in and directly around the town/city was femented stuff. Once a toddler was taken away from the breast it would start drinking a low ABV beer and would continue to do so for the rest of their lives. It is sometimes said that a person living here could spend their whole lives without ever drinking a drop of plain water. This necessity formed into "tradition" and up untill just a few decades ago you would regularly find a bottle of "table beer" (just a rather foul but sweet tasting low ABV beer) sitting next to a pitcher of water on the breakfast, lunch and dinnertable.
What you're saying is that you want those days to come back right?
Lost track of an all grain wash that I fermented on the grain that sat for two years before I distilled it and it was some of the best stuff I've ever made.
Ty for the info can you lose abv if you're wash/mash sits to long before you run it?
Or is there ever a best time to run your wash/mash when your ABV peak is highest?
@@markkrone6567 not a distiller, but I dont see why your wash would lose abv by sitting around. And abv peak, again its not losing abv so sorry of yes? You want it to have finished fermenting and cleared up, so I guess yes at its peak abv?
Jesse sometimes I just don't know what I'd do without you. Thank you so much for sharing your knowledge of this craft. 😊
Made a rum wash years ago where I ended up moving before it finished fermenting and I actually forgot about it found it and it was not the best smell in the world but ran it and it ended up tasting like green apples and sweet pears.
You made heavy rum, with high ester formation.
Your description of the pelical reminded me of my first Flanders red sour beer I ever brewed so cool to see it grow.
Another good video, simple and to the point with great info...keep it up! :)
You made me choke on my top ramen with freakin “freedom units”😂
Thank you very much, I'm new to distilling and I had no time to destil my mash last week and I was scared that I needed to trow it away. Thanks for the knowledgeable content. Sorry for the bad English
Btw you are the best youtuber for Destilling
That was a good job exsplaining the hazardous issues out there.
I had a wash that got an infection before the yeast took it over and it smelt like baby poop very early on. I finished the fermentation and ran it and while I'm sure it was safe I never got rid of that faint smell in the spirit. So if it happens again I would just toss it, because trying to get the smell out of the fermenter was ridiculously hard.
I recently ran a 3 year old 10 gal sugar wash . The wash sat in the garage for a about a year . It then went to a mini- storage for 6 months, then back home under my r v for a year and a half. From 4/21 to 5/24 . The wash was racked from fermenter into 2 5gal buckets for three years .
Small potstill w/thumper . 1 1/2 qt 0f 74 % mellow vanilla fruity tasting sugar shine .
This video had an influence in my decision to keep the wash as long as I did .
Thanks for the video .
did a batch with 100% oats and amylase, didn't get around to running it for months, came out spectacular!
Had a year old apple mash...sealed...
had funky white film on top...ran it and turned out better than my regular batch...awsome flavor brandy
Thx! Have a 3 months old Gen5 UJSSM sitting on my shelf.... let's run it!
Good shit !!! Once again thanks 4 your time!!!
Never got a vinegar or similar in 6 years of fermentation. Edit: damn sure no rotting flesh ! Fruit and juices, etc, for high abv wine. 3 years of beer, no problems, yet. 1 1/2 years of distillation, corn and barley, add wheat or rye, then all barley, so far so good 👍 (drinking a single malt as I type 😁) I've been lucky I guess.
Great upload Jess !! 🥃 Thanks
This video is great for people new to the craft because it is way too easy to let your imagination get away from you when you start seeing "weird" stuff in your product. Eventually weird becomes normal, and actual weird stuff becomes easy to identify.
Dude, you are a top man :-) fantastic as always
he's the best!
Great topic. I made a wild apple cider I intended to run through together still, but forgot about it in a he basement of my in-laws farm. When I pulled it out, it had a big kombucha style SCOBY on it and smelled like dirty feet. I started running it for the heck of it, but stopped early as I there was little to no alcohol, the distilled product was also very bitter.
bitter is not a good sign
I use recycled yeast for my 5 gallon mead and the flavor gets better by each fermentation. Its been on three so far, and now on a fourth batch of mead
Recently I found that I had forgotten to put one of my washes through the still. It has been sitting for about 4 months. Had asked some of my mates here if it was OK to put through the still. Because none of my "expert" friends had not shared my experience they were reluctant to give comment or just simply said, "chuck it".
Glad I watched this vid of yours so will put it through tomorrow and see what happens.
Thanks mate
What was the result?
Just ran 6 gallons of rum mash that was in my closet for over a year. Tastes great.
I could make a joke about that but I wont!
I use to do open oak keg fermentation,with bakers yeast( live in the bush,per online buying days)so if it went off,ie white weird stuff would grow on top,I found using mustards seed & Alum would kill the mad mold,& get it back to active fermentation,& would distill off no problem...
If you're afraid of all that, just take a look at how Hampden Estate make rum, their fermentation, the muck, the overall hygiene of the distillery. If they're fine you're fine
i had a failed ginger beer that sat in a plastic office water container for a year with a rubber bung ( with a hole) and a sheet of glass on it , ran fine turned in to 94% ,smelled a little acrid but obviously it was mostly booze !
Glad I ran across this video. I've dumped 2 mashes in the past because they smelled like puke. Stunk up the whole garage. Guess I should have ran them if I could have tolerated the stench.
My first wash was tpw and as I borrowing a mate still, he didn't bring it over for 4 or 5 months. We cracked the lip open. Smell really nice, we end up drinking couple litres. That wot I don't understand about Ur videos. O can't remember see u tasting any of Ur washes or mash. I smell and taste all my new recipes.
Was wondering about using dunder as in buccaneer bobs rum. Is dangerous growth possible. Hate to intentionally transfer something to the wash.
Not to mention that once it's been run through the still and its at 120+ proof, it kills pretty much anything that may be present in the final product
"Freedom units."
As an apologetic American during these times, I appreciated that quip.
I came to the comments for this exact reason. Merica!!
Who would have thought that a republic would use the kings foot to measure anything.
Yee yee,
I will only refer to farenheit as freedom units from now on.
Unfortunately, common sense isn't so common any more . . . :D But I love your discussion on this! As a homebrew beer nerd, I hate it when some people get so worked up about everything needing to be absolutely sterile. And yes, I've seen people really shoot for sterile, not just sanitized.
I have done a lot of reading on how to be safe with smoking food. If you are making Jerky and smoked fish( as long as you get the temp up to 166 F you are normally safe. Every time I smoke and I test the product its normally over 180 by the time I pull it out
Some of the best things come from screw ups you never know you might get a gem out of it at that point only thing you have to lose is time
OMG have you seen the DES side column 120ltr still 😘 distillers dream right there.
This was very helpful. I'm new here, and I was worried about this topic, but for flavor reasons. Botulism is anaerobic and cannot reproduce in an oxygen environment. I cannot see how pathogens would carry over in the vapor. Toxins, maybe. I guess a mash tun could become anaerobic if CO2 blanketed the surface of the liquid...
Did you say the safe plastic grade was PTFE, not sure I got you there. Tks
Yeah feijoa! Looking forward to that:-)
I heard feijoada? 👨🍳
I can see it all now... Food colab 🤣
ua-cam.com/video/3029wxnkuao/v-deo.html
@@StillDrew982 I got that reference Andy. Fear not, it's been gotten by at least one person.
I have 28 gl. Of wash , 4 months old. I'm expecting it to be just fine. Heck, 4 month old wisky straight off the still. Yum. 😜
George from Barley and Hops was talking on one of his videos and commented about a sugar wash he had sitting around for over a year, Long story short he said it came out fine.
Great!!
Thanks for the great info
I had a sugar wash which after about 20 days from putting the yeast in the wash, it smelled like acetone and little white flakes formed on top of the liquid layer.
I had it air locked and the equipment was to my ability and knowledge clean, i didn't distill it because of the acetone smell. Wondering why that particular thing happened.
Also i filtered some washes later and the remainder which consisted of yeast and other stuff because i wanted to check if the yeast was still alive to add it to another batch or not. so i washed the yeast with cooled boiling water and then add it to a small HDPE bottle and add about 2 spoons of sugar to check if it starts fermenting that or not, and after a week again that acetone smell and white flakes formed. I also added a little amount of citric acid to lower the pH and again added 1 spoon sugar, not so much spoiler but again the acetone smell only grew stronger. I wonder what is the cause this problem.
I don't have any issue if the yeast preferred fermenting sugar to acetone because that can be useful for other stuff not including drinking of course. But i want to know why that happened.
All that aside I realy wanted to thank you because i started fermenting and distilling ethanol by the info mostly from you.
Hi it’s due to ethyl acetate formation combo of ethanol and acetic acid
May u got contaminated or semi expose to atmosphere
@@balajicherukuri6967 So that's caused by oxygen getting inside the fermentation vessel.
So this means if the fermentation was done by constantly aerating the wash you could get acetone more favorably?
Did anyone do that and have the result info?
Thanks a lot by the way.
One point is that to get vinegar, you will need to have a source of oxygen.
So if you keep your lock on top of your container of wash, you should get no vinegar from your ethanol.
Chemical reactions:
sugar -> ethanol + carbon dioxide: C6H12O6 -> 2 C2H5OH + 2 CO2
ethanol + oxygen -> ethanoic acid (vinegar): C2H5OH + O2 -> CH3COOH + H2O
Its happend twice now. My brandy wash turned slimy. No bad smell. Any info highly appreciated?
I have had a beer I brewed that was in the fermenter for 5-6months.
Good sanitation and it’s all good, little oxidized but no infection 👌🏻
Disclaimer is VERY well done!!
What is this "Common Sense" you speak of?
I have found that it usually adds up to about $0.02
I've literally just put a sugar wash through a T500 which was stored in my garage in a 50l keg for at least 4 years and it made a very clean mid spirit. The keg has a 3 inch opening and it just had a plastic lid sat on it from a plastic tub. Not sealed completely at all. It didn't turn to vinegar, was glacially clear and I bet had lost a lot of its esters etc over the years. It was also made with a yeast that was also way out of date. Why did it sit there for all this time? Well, I was going out with a woman who lived miles away and it just got lost under the garage junk.
I am a brewer so the keg would have been well sanitised.
As a beer guy I've always been jealous of how little sanitation is necessary for distillers.
It's the number one factor in beer.
I've had a wash turn a bit vinegary. my solution was to add a heap of bicarb soda to neutralize the vinegar. we also washed the still with bicarb and then heavily rinsed it with water in case there was any vinegar in the still.
my brother had an issue where he royally f-ed up his wash and some how got ammonia in it. not only did it taste awful, but it went right through the still and everything after was tainted. the solution was to wash the still with a strong solution of citric acid followed by thorough washing. we also added a heap of citric acid to the distillant and redistilled it.
in both cases, what we added chemically bonded to the impurity, creating a compound that does not evaporate, even when boiled.
in both cases, the goal was clean spirit, and by the end of it, this was achieved. I'm not sure what caused the ammonia. maybe the yeast has rotten our something. I really don't know.
“If it does smell a bit like rotting flesh...”
So THIS is how the zombie apocalypse starts
My question is about spent Mash. I have about 10gal of corn base mash that I strained good and ran down to around 100 proof. After cool down, wile still warm, I poured in containers and sealed..Haven't touched them in a couple of years??. Have to ask, do I now have a super sour mash and can still use or dump as quickly as I can..lol thx
I saw someone used a thumper filled with fruit to get the flavor of that fruit. I think it would be cool to do a apple brandy and fill a 1/2 gallon mason jar thumper with caramel, to make like a caramel apple brandy. Was wondering whats your take on using thumpers to get more flavor. Will you ever use a thumper in general?
It works for me I purée the fruit first though.
If you are just used fruit and not something alcoholic than I'm pretty sure that it is called a gin basket (even if it's not gin)
Zack perron it depends on the kind of still a gin basket is usually found in a Column still a thumper is usually found in a whiskey still
@@charlesschmidtke8427 how well does the flavor carry over?
so do we scoop the white layer on top of the mash off? or leave it and how do you know if you used enough yeast
It depends on the level of alcohol in the wash or mash the cousin of yeast asadal bacteria also may die in your 20% wash or mash
What about some Green Mould ontop of a dunder pit?
08:05 Deck is my favourite word in your accent
So I went to a work conference (nurse) at a brewery. Got drunk, made bad decision to buy two cartons of their appalling barrel added sour ale (abv 11.5%)
It was S#1T !! I couldn’t drink it.
Sat in my shed for a year, went past it’s “use by date”…. So chuck it or still it?
Stilled it #ucking beautiful.
Germs- nope- distilling is killing !!
Brewers were among the first to realise that bad water stopped the mash fermenting. The early breweries had a tower with a big sand filter at the top. Water was pumped up and left to pass through sand filters, then it was boiled before the start of the mash.
As far as a fermented wort goes what do you know that survives 10% alcohol and an hour at 90C. However a wort stood too long may have a different (better or worse) flavour or feel when drunk. Most name brands will have very precise times during the production just to maintain the taste of the brand constant.
I was a little overzealous and started a banana mash before my still was built. well long story short It sat and I forgot about it and now I have my still. It smell's like banana beer not vinegar. I'm wondering if it is safe to run. thoughts?
RUN IT! That's what I took away!
the rare auld common sense eh.where did it go.thanks again for the info and entertainment.mad dog.west cork.eire
i always check PH now as 1 batch went blue from the stuff taking metal out of the packing.
🤔If you don't clean your still&packing well your product will be blue especially if it's copper!.
Hi guys im in NZ and have used 8kg dextrose with classic8 turbo yeast. The yeast faild due to being way to old (best before 2018) so after 2 days of no activity i added 4Table spoons of active bakers yeast and withen 30mins all activity was cranking. Its been bubbling strong for 3 days now has started to slow dramaticly. OG was 1.136 and is now down to 1.020. Question is its still quite sweet will it be ok to leave say 1 more week and then run thru reflux still?
"If it smells like rotten flesh"... you should probably need to stop make wash from dead bodies? :D
what about bat and goat head in the jamaican dunder pit ?
@@RoranRock those things are probably fresh meat and should be fine in my opinion
You'll be right mate just still it .
I'm doing it the old way and can't check gravity. I go by the cap dropping. Now it has white powder on top cap dropped I've been working long days and can't get to distilling it. Smells sweet and idk what is ontop of it
Ok mine is snow covered bubbles. Thx for the help. It finished a month and a half ago
Vinegar is an acid and is sold at around 5%. At least here in the States. In Easter Europe it's sold in a much higher percentage and is pretty dangerous. If you have vinegar and you distill it, I'm assuming it's going to concentrate much higher then 5 or 10%. Should be very careful about that.
commercial vinegar is 30%
hello chasers!!!
My experience of running a bad 5 year old batch, thinking I could separate vinegar from alcohol, ruined all of my copper parts. I had to have all the copper sandpapered.
Can a wash/mash lose abv if fermentation is to Long???
Any concerns with mould?
Does anybody know if a sugar wash that does not ferment out completely but still at 12% is ok to still distill ?
I tried to make saki not too long ago. i let it sit for three months total, and it turned to vinigar. Never distilled it i just dumped it.
"Wired freedom units". LMAO
Whew.....ok good. I thought my mash was turning out to be a goner. There are some slightly almost furry bubbles forming.....seems like it's going to be ok though!
Thanks Jesse for all you do. One question re botulism. You say botulism gets killed at 85C but alcohol comes off the still at 79 C , so that isn't hot enough to kill it. Am I missing something here ?
The alcohol reaches temperatures well past 90C in steam form during distilling and is cooled down to condense back into a liquid as it comes off the still.
Pure alcohol boils off at 79C but the mix of alcohol and water you actually have in the still is hotter.
Doesn't high concentration of alcohol kill it anyway?
@@zacharyrestelli1402 Of course. Thanks Zachary.
@@MadJix The bacterium is nearly impossible to deal with, it's the toxin itself that decomposes at 85°C
I made a sugar wash, and it smells like vinegar. The yeast took off right away, and there was airlock activity for 3 weeks. When i opened it up, there were still bubbles, but it smelled like wine and vinegar. Is that normal?
Hey there can somebody please answer me ? I have 60%+ abv vodka made and when i smell it it burns my nose , when i taste it it burn a tad bit on my tongue and bites it , is it toxic or fine ? I drunk 30mils of it and im still here chatting but still im worried a bit
George from Barley and Hops covers this topic in numerous casts and reviews the science behind the topic.
I'd be wary of Georges videos, some of his info is dangerous or just wrong.
One of my washes was inadvertently exposed the microbial colonies from a thermal vent at 15,000 ft. depth and 600 degree's temp, should I worry?
How do I make or save my vinegar smelling sour mash after Ten days?
Can I somehow add more water and sugar to save my mash that taste like vinegar?
A good video. Very informative.. Moonshine Life Group
If the rubber piece to secure your airlock fell into your mash and sat for months inside the mash, is it still safe to distill?
Yep
Beer guy here. Y’all are crazy lol I wouldn’t let any of this stuff touch my equipment. Fruit flies?? that’s just nasty lol
Remember that the next time you crave a pickle.
If you go pour it, and it comes out like jello, probably best to distill it anyway. /s
I have a sugar wash with a lb. raisin i made Feb. 22. I racked the raisin after 3 weeks. ( it took about 7 weeks) I had my daughter taken from me in March to murder and a very close friend passed unexpected in May. So I have not been up to distilling.. my question is... is it safe to run? I hate to waist but want safe!
Go for it your golden
When do I test the ph to see if it is safe from botulism?
Or how do I tell if there is botulism in my mash? Don’t want that shit lmao
Once again you hit it.
Common sense prevails.
If in doubt, throw it out.
Like your saying,
I have gotten side tracked Hurricanes and ect and didn't get to the wash for a couple of months.
As long as it was clean and sealed.
By the way, its a lot of work to make Vinegars.
Nobody ever talks about the color of the wash... does that make a difference?
BTW it was clear with no mold evident.
Everyone who wants to get into distilling should have minimal culinary experience. Can you fry an egg, and scramble one. Bake a loaf of bread from scratch, flour, water, salt, yeast, knead, rise, bake, eat. Watch the changes, feel them as you knead it, and for an even more thorough understanding, read up in soaking grains. While it isn’t exactly what we are doing, it is part of hydrating grains, much like we do for a mash. Also, make pickles, ferment a hot sauce. Again taste as you go, watch the changes that occur, it makes the fermentation process followed by distillation much easier to understand and troubleshoot if needed. Lastly, nothing about this is exact, we have SG ranges, temperature ranges, one little difference in temperature can make a difference in fermentation timeframes. Use your head people, just because it rains in Seattle, does not indicate it raining all the way over in Las Vegas. They are different, the entire atmosphere is different, therefore the exact results will be slightly different. Relax and have fun!
Is it normal for birdwatchers to get very clear ? Kind regards Ben, za
Usually clear ish depending in how long after fermentation ends. I usually overpitch the tomato paste just because its cheaper to buy one big can. And it is usually a dark pink color.
I’ll make sure to tell my defense attorney that you said it was ok
That sounded like RONA to me! :)
thanks Hehe so i shacked a 210 liter buccaneers rum for nothing
No email address, can't really ask questions or talk.
I thought he was Jason Clay Dunn at first. Then I heard him speak.
I was waiting to hear about methanol and ethanol dangers also.
Nobody wants to get blind or killed by it, right? 😅
My father in law gave me 10 gallons of apple juice that sat in the root cellar for 2 years...I ran it it was fine. Just my take, a little funky and I like it.
I distilled some mulberry wine. What was left tasted just like juice. Is it safe to drink?