I Finally Tried A Strandberg Guitar And This Is What I think Of It.
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- Опубліковано 4 чер 2024
- #knowyourgear
Strandberg guitars
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Strandberg KYG Podcast Interview
• Ola Strandberg Talks A...
00:00 Intro
00:45 Geeky Stuff
08:44 Sound Samples
14:11 My Thoughts
Radius Gauge with slots
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Fret Rocker
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Precision Notched Straightedge
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The Music Nomad gauge I use
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Digital Caliper
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Digital Multimeter
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My Favorite set up tools
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The picks I use
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Music Nomad tools
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Here are some other products from a dealer I trust and buy from online
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Here are some other products from a dealer I trust and buy from online
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I am sitting in a wheelchair. Bought a Strandberg Boden 6string two years ago. The best guitar for me and my wheechair. Comfort, sound,builtquality,weight...the best guitar in my collection. Thank you Mr. Strandberg for this Masterpiece. And thank you for this review.....
That's awesome 👍
great advise Mr.!
Go for it, bro.
What’s it like for holding drop running?
I am getting a strandberg,,,,Also,,,they seem top notch instruments ❤It.
One of those just came through my shop. Definitely the most comfortable guitar I’ve ever played. The ergonomics are out of this world. Everything is just so well thought out. I agree about the trem claw - perhaps if they blackened the claw, springs, and trem block, it would streamline the back better.
True... it may be a bit "conventional" looking in the back, but who looks at the back very much? I see it for a second when I put the guitar over my shoulder and that is it. Certainly no one watching you play sees it.
This is my most often played guitar in my collection. It is the most comfortable and ergonomic guitar I have ever played. Well worth the cost and like 5 pounds total weight. I would definitely buy another.
I had the pleasure of trying one at a guitar clinic a couple years back; the neck is just absolutely perfect! If only my cheap ass could justify spending that kind of money on a single guitar lol.
I’ve had my os8 for a few years now and I can safely say if you have any issues with left hand posture or pain, this guitar is the answer. It will force you to play correctly and you’ll take that correction with you to other guitars without realising it. Genius ideas with strandberg
While not my most often played, It's definitely a gateway addiction and I fully admit to binge-playing it a lot from time to time! The Suhr pickups sound killer! It's a lot of fun to play, just inconsolably intolerant of my sloppy guitar work. 🎈
I have an 8 string Strandy that weighs 5 pounds. It's the lightest guitar in my collection even though it's the one with the most strings lol
Seriously considering buying one. Does it hold tuning well?
I am sure many will disagree with me but I cannot get over the price premium on this guitar. I understand the market pretty well and the premium is probably 70%-80% given the location of manufacture and component cost. I get the innovation and if it does the job that much better, cost is somewhat relative but it doesn’t negate the fact that Strandberg is pushing the envelope on price here.
If you consider the prices, that the top dogs like Fender and Gibson charge for their custom guitars, Strandberg is in the similar league. Moreover, if you face the prices of the Top-Guitars from Fender and Gibson, Strandberg is even cheaper! However, the difference is that for a 5 kg Les Paul you need an orthopedist to repair your spine after the gig. I already have two very good guitars, but my next one will definitely be a Strandberg.
What exactly do you mean the price premium? The margin?
@@quantum_beeb The whole discussion is ultimately a lot of nonsense. If everyday goods are left out, the consumer ultimately determines the value of a product, namely the price he is willing to pay for it. It's that simple. As long as someone is willing to pay €2,000, €5,000, or even €10,000 for a premium quality guitar, the manufacturing costs don't matter.
I agree completely
I think people are completely forgetting things such as Research and development costs. It's like saying an iPhone should only cost 300 dollars because of components.
Strandberg's trem system and other components are made in-house. Not to mention Strandberg has nowhere near the economy of scale of fender or Gibson.
Obviously there's a bit of a price premium, but you are paying for a relatively new manufacturer.
Hey Phil, liked the overlay for your pickup info, nice touch. You just keep getting better with your videos
You did a great job of showing the tonal variety on the guitar. Now I want one!
The range of tones from those 2 buckers is amazing!
Very well put together and informative video, thanks Phillip!
I have one of the Strandberg Prog 7 strings with a poplar burl top. I agree with Phil, I freaking love the neck on that thing. Thanks for the content!
Very glad you enjoyed that neck carve.
I came across a used lower end Strandberg for about 1300.
Sat with it for about two hours in my local Guitar center, and absolutely regret not buying it.
I own an Ibanez QX25 right now, and I can definitely see the Strandberg being the second guitar in my collection.
Hi Phil, fantastic review, I loved the detail you portrayed. Cheers ✌️🎸
The 7 string prog is a beast. I love mine. And yes, I'll agree with you that the neck shape really gets it's stride when you add the low B.
That thing sounds good. Great playing!
I'd love to try one of these, they do seem to be great from whatever angle you approach it: design, feel, sound, ergonomics, etc...
👍
As always, very informative and I enjoyed this greatly. A Strandberg was not previously on my radar due to lack of information, but I am intrigued and will definitely seek out one to try. I also wanted to let you know that I enjoyed your playing greatly also.
DUDE! Your video on the Strandberg 8 was what pushed me off the edge to get one - I mean, I was already teetering off the edge from Gardiner's videos already but, YEAH!! Thanks again!
Great video - I know Plini plays one and I love his playing but never really thought I would want one of these. Now I definitely want one!
thanks for the fantastic review - this is definitely the guitar at the top of my list now!
I have to add another comment. This was one of your best reviews. It was very honest and pointed out all the important features without any bias one way or the other. Basically there’s a purpose behind everything. You did an extra good job demonstrating the pickups and their versatility. I can understand the issue with the back trem area. Possibly using darker springs and claw with a brass block?? Idk…Thanks for the great review.
Does it really matter what the back of the guitar looks like?
I've seen lots of review and read lots of comments and Strandbergs seem to be loved by pretty much everyone who owns/plays them. One of my friends has owned one for a few year and he loves it! He's owned many guitars over the years and it's his favorite out of anything he's owned. I've never played one but I do play those hybrid 9-46 strings and I love them 🙂
Seeing that little smile as you start playing, love it! Gotta try one
Great vid. I've had one of these for several years and find it extremely playable, as are all the others I've tried. Mine is the 6-string fixed-bridge Boden made in Korea. There were only two things I didn't like about it. The first was the pickups. The stock ones were Seymour Duncan and just didn't seem to give the range of sounds I wanted. I tried a few others, including EMGs, but eventually settled on a pair of Q-Tuner humbuckers, which sound perfect and also match the modern look. The other thing I wasn't fond of was the design of the rear control cavity, which made working on the guitar really annoying (it still does, but I've settled on the right pickups now, so it doesn't matter). It's been updated for later models, however, and the newer version is much, much better.
I've most recently played a friend's Salen Jazz and it was fantastic. The only model I've never been able to get my hands on is the Varberg, and I would absolutely love to try one of those. They are amazing examples of how a modern guitar could be conceptualised. Strandbergs are, I think, the best-designed major new instruments on the market today, and deserve every bit of success they've had.
A couple of years back, I bought my first Strandberg after amassing an collection of five headless Kiesels of varying models. I bought the Strandberg because I really wanted a “T style” guitar, something that Kiesel didn’t offer. I was immediately a convert! As great as the Kiesels feel, play and sound, the ‘berg has the edge. I am inspired every. Time. I. Play! The Suhr T style pups are so versatile with just a three way switch, a volume and tone that I play every gig without even a passing thought of another sound. The neck is the best, restringing is a breeze (it is a hard tail like a Tele) and the attention to detail immaculate. That guitar is a Sälen Deluxe in sunburst, Pre NX, and earlier this year I bought a second, a Sälen Standard in traditional T Style butterscotch which is an NX… and it’s hard to tell which is my favorite! The new one is a little snappier without the F hole but with a moment’s play I’m in love with either!
Thanks. You just sold me on a Stranberg instead of a Keisel. Not sure which model I am getting but LOVE the lightweight vibe of the guitar. I am 61 so no more Les Pauls for me. Thanks for the comment😎
Interesting, thanks for the demo Phil.....
Really cool. Liked the back plate incorporating the input jack. I'd worry w/the light weight and balance of it all that I might be busting that. But w/ that setup I'm not as much. Cool,cool.
On the one hand, I'd really love to get my hands on one of these and try it. On the other, it's well out of my price range. If I loved it, it would break my heart. Thanks for the video Phil!
Hey Phil. Great review as always. I've had the older version of the Boden 6 for a few years now. It is truly a superb guitar. A few observations... The Seymour Duncan pickups in mine are attached by small screws that work themselves loose over time. Every few weeks I notice a rattling and sure enough, one or both are loose. My version has very little sustain. There's just not enough material to resonate I guess. Minor complaints as it is a superb bit of kit overall. There is surely no finer professional-level instrument for travelling. I carried mine as hand luggage when I moved across the world 2 years ago. It is small and easy to handle. I will say that, as soon as I was settled, I began craving more 'normal' guitars. That's my cross to bear - I have an addiction to guitars. But I find that I pick up the Strandberg a LOT less when there is competition. I can't put my finger on why that is. Cheers :)
You are SO right about the 7 string and endureneck. I have 3 6 string strandies - I like the endureneck, but I also like my Ibanez necks. BUT - On the 7-String and 8-Strings I got rid of all other guitars. It is a HUGE thing there, every extenden range guitarist should check it out!
I love my Strandberg Boden 6. The pickups are amazing and identical to those in my Suhr Modern Satin. I toss a HX Stomp, some headphones and a cable into the gig bag and the whole package comes in under 12 lbs. It's perfect for travel and easily goes in the overhead bin on a plane. The neck feels great to me as well.
The design works fantastically on an 8 string as well. It makes an 8 so easy to handle and pkay.
Great review!
outstanding tone!
I'm the owner of two Strandbergs and BOTH of them have had huge quality issues:
The Strandberg Prog came with active pickups, which used up the batteries even when I was not playing! I've had to send the guitar back in order to change the input jack.
The string lock assembly and the metal washers are really low quality. When the washers wear out, you have to change them and buy new ones, which only Strandberg can provide. If you don't change them, you won't be able to keep the guitar in tune. I've decided to swap the string lock assembly for another system. Both guitars are at the luthier right now. I'll update you when the work is done if you want to.
Moreover, the zero fret is useless. Strandberg, get rid of them! It gets dents every now and then, which cause a pinging noise when you bend or use vibrato.
All this thing do not happen the first day you have the guitar. It took these issues one year to start to appear and to realise how low quality these guitars are made.
I've just bought an Ibanez Q, which are half as expensive as Strandbergs and might be superior qualitywise. Let's see how they compare to the Strandbergs in a year or so.
Its been a year, how is the Ibanez doing compared to Stransberg?
Note that if you leave the guitar plugged in then the battery is engaged all the time.
@@mortennissov7891 I always unplugged the guitar when I was not playing and it still used up the battery. Now this doesn't happen anymore.
I bought my first Boden Original 8 string a few months ago and it’s the best guitar I’ve ever played. I have a custom Aristides, PRS custom 22, Ormsby, Ibanez, Fender strat. And the craftsmanship, playability, and sound from the Strandberg is on another level. Just holding it you can feel the quality of the instrument. My only regret is I don’t have more of them.
wow!
Wow, it beats your aristide eh? That's quite the review!
How's your Ormsby? Was thinking of ordering a Hype GTR 7, really love how they look
@@aninfinitemindofmusicandreams Ormsby’s are solid. Even the import models from Korea that I’ve played are fantastic for the price point ($1,200-$2,000 USD). I too love the Hype GTR models. Enjoy!
Wow! This review is legit!💪🏼
I bought mine bout month ago love how much care you had for this instrument. Would you ever care to do a tuning video for this specific guitar!?(: finally someone agrees that it is worth the money spent . Love mine hope you love yours . Cheers
great review!
Great review Phil, thank you. I remember you saying the strandbergs felt too expensive for you for an Indonesian guitar. Have you changed your thinking on that? I listened to the podcast with Ola too, but would be great if you could mention your latest thoughts on the price point maybe in another podcast
Awesome review sir…
I have been looking at this model for awhile. Just bought today after your video. Used of course but some one must go from my collection. Lol thanks Phil
The only time I got to play one myself was at the Sweetwater I live by. Felt really, really nice to play on. I'd definitely consider it if I were looking to get another guitar in the future. For now I'm just happy with my Ibanez THBB10 though.
I’m still waiting on Strandberg to make a 6 string baritone version and I would buy one immediately!
That would be amazing.
@@SapperRJMorgan yeah I think so. Especially with fishman fluence pickups.
Buy Strandbergs 8 string guitar. It’s has 28 inch neck and it is good! Plays like butter.
@Cyrus Freeman ibanez has a 28" baritone 6 . Sounds wild , looks good too
Put a Schaller sure-claw in the tremolo cavity, not only looks better but adds some mass (if that's your bag) and works perfectly.
Strandberg is the only guitar I've ever had 2 of. They just feel so good to play.
I just got the prog nx in charcoal. my gripes are super minimal. the gig bag is great, but it's still just a gig bag so I had to diy a case. i also would rather have a push in trem arm rather than having to do the helicopter. that's all i can find to complain about. i play a lot of styles and the guitar takes it like a champ and out preforms my expectations every time i play it. i barely have to tune anymore. i've never had a guitar that gets out of the way more than thing. i'll sit with a fender or schecter or a gibson, etc, etc, and they all sort of tell me what to play. this guitar is a blank canvas that gives me free reign. the neck profile disappears into my hand. the fan frets took me a long time to get used to, but now i love it. i may be over-hyping it, but i love this guitar!
I use 2 Springs on my Suhr (with the Gotoh 510) and the Tuning-stability and return-to-pitch is Phenomenal. Definitely an interesting guitar - for sure.
This has got to be the best touring musician guitar. Also for small stages/venues.
Great to play on the couch!
Can you replace the 6 piece string metal thing at the headstock with the new one peice?
Some of the best tones iv heard from anything on the channel in a while.
You have made the best sound of this guitar ever. We need an entire video you explaining your setup!
"Friedman small box 50 into a 212 cabinet with vintage 30s miked with sm57 into my 88m neve interface in my computer"
88m neve?
The headless guitar reminds me of the Steinberger guitar from long ago.
You sounds great on that strandy!
Thanks Phil!...
that looks a lot like my next guitar build.🤣🤣
Interesting review of an amazing guitar, ( I have a Boden and just ordered a Salen Jazz). You used a term I couldn't find in any of my chord dictionaries; "Cowboy Chords"? Do you mean 'Cowboy" as opposed to Geek, Nerd, Hippie, etc.?
I liked the tone a lot. I also like early Teles and tri-5 Les Pauls for the thick necks and old wood. That neck scares me but I'm willing to try it. LOL One of the reasons I love guitar is the tradition and simplicity of it, so I also have to get by that. Green is not my fav color either, but just a visual thing. The whole thing is like going from a Corvette to a Tesla. LOL 8) --gary
Hey Phil! Thanks for a great review! Can I ask you to do a shootout on all of the existing Strandberg Boden models, so that everyone can decide if they need Metal, Prog or other one. Thanks!
Looks great. I wish the neck pickup was parallel with the fretboard though.
Very cool guitar. It just occurred to me.... What kind of stand would you use?
Thx for the great Video!!! How about trying a aristides or a Tom anderson?
Best necks I played ever some hand made asymmetrical neck by an amazing luthier and they feel so comfortable. Gonna order a guitar from when I’ve saved enough nickels and dimes. When building a guitar he has people come in near the end of the year long process so he can shape the neck to the player’s hand. Such a nice guy and a great player, too. Gonna try different guitars and figure thin or thick neck, the body style (he has a couple and they look great), pickups, etc.
The neck pickup on mine is soooo good. Great guitar
Excellent review! Really appreciate it. The 7 string would be something I would buy also!
Cool but how would you hang it on the guitar wall? Do they make special hangers for it?
Love the neck. Feels like your playing the leg of a table but in a good way.
I played a couple of them at the dealer in Tulsa and yes, really like em. 👍
Got s Classic 6 Trem and love it with my Mesa Boogie Mark V Combo! The Prog 7 will be my next guitar. :-)
NICE JOB BRO.......!!!!!!!!!!!! Very informative........!!!!!
The design of the neck is next level
My buddy has a plini model and I was shocked how thicc the neck was. Didn't expect that. I honestly only played a few quick riffs on it and gave it right back because it scares me to think 'what happens if I love it' and I order one and next thing you know, I want to sell all my guitars and have nothing but strandbergs. I'll just keep my hands off of them and stick to my current traditional necks, lol.
Played the NX6 and it sounded so good and played so good i bought it.
Top notch craftsmanship and there is a hole on the back of the guitar. Where is the tremolo cover? What did they think?
PLEASE do a review on jet guitars they are very much on the budget side of guitars and I've seen amazing reviews but you would be my deciding factor on whether I would get one
Thanks for the link to the socks, I want to Test Authentic 🤪
There’s nothing I don’t love about this guitar, though I usually don’t care for fanned frets. They aren’t extreme and seem to work for the instrument. The sound is unique and really nice. The only thing I noticed to be questionable was the slight lack of sustain, but it was so minor that I wouldn’t hesitate to add this beautiful guitar to my collection. Thanks for the excellent review.
Yeah I liked that the fanned fret layout was subtle
I have one, sustain is never an issue. I play a boden original 6 w trem and sustain is beyond anything I’ve played.
I realise that this could seem like a slightly odd comparison to ask, but how does it compare to a Musicman Axis / Peavey HP2 / EVH Wolfgang? Those are quite compact guitars for their scale length. Is it like comparing apples and oranges, or are there similarities ? Although I'm not completely enamored with the Wolfgang shape, the guitar fits me like a glove. So I'd be interested to know if these are compact in a similar way?
It's nice to see they got their QC issues under control. I bought one of the very first Machacek models when it came out, and it had to go back once and then I had to do a fret level and fix a number of finish issues even then. The pickups are mounted a bit wonky, as well.
Even after all that, it's one of my favorite guitars to play as the design just makes it a joyous experience.
Love my Strandberg. Probably my most played because it is so comfortable and easy to play.
Phil: How would you describe/compare the feel and movement of the Strandberg trem system versus more common Ibanez Edge/Floyd or even Strat style 2 and 6 point trems, especially in terms of the perceived smoothness?
Great point, a lot of hype arund teh ergonmics and headless and new look etc, but Ibanez have made the best trems for decades, and if you want to do more than basic trem stuff i think an Ibanez Pro Edge would be better
A thought about the hybrid string choices that you mentioned: wouldn't it make sense to do the opposite of what you did, a heavier gauge on the high strings for the shorter scale and a lighter gauge on the lower strings for the longer scale? Otherwise, you are amplifying the tension differences between the different scales?
I use this guitar for playing in a modern big band. It is extremely versatile and so lightweight that you can play forever. I can do classic swing comping as well as funky stuff, flashy solos for rock tunes- all in one guitar, and with on board controls, no adjustment at the amp*. It is easy to transport and there is no head-neck- joint that can break. The neck profile is great for me, but it is maybe not so good for players with thumb over the edge of the fretboard. To adjust to the fanned frets took no effort for me. But I have to say, I am a Jazz guy, I have the guitar quite high and prefer a nearly classical position for my left hand and thumb. I can use this guitar instead of two I would normally need. * well except I switch to the overdrive channel for the Rock solos
You should definitely check out a GOC guitar! They have a very nice and different neck profile aswell and they're own unique shapes aswell! Would love to hear your opinion on a vajra model as i love mine in 6 strings and plans to buy an 8 to go with it.
This is the review I have been waiting for! The only thing that would make me happier is if you reviewed an 8 string also. I definitely agree with your observation in the interview about Ola's design being the most widely accepted innovation in recent guitar history. I have lusted after a Strandberg Boden 8 for a few years now, but before that I honestly thought a 335 with a bigsby was the pinnacle of guitar. The whole collection of innovations Ola has made in pursuit of ergonomics and lightness makes it all the more beautiful to me! One of these days I will own a Strandberg 😤
The 8 is really different compared to 7 and 6 string versions. Mostly due to a really long scale on the bass strings, it sounds more plastic-y, it's harder to do palm mutes because the strings at the bridge are all over the place, etc. In terms of neck comfort, it's better than most 6 string guitars no question.
My take is get the 8 if you want something really different. Get a 6 or a 7 if you want a more versatile and familiar high end guitar with added comfort.
I just got a 2020 not sure if I like the fish man moderns.
The earliest, US made, Lace Cybercaster guitars had an unusual 'twisted' neck design that was supposed to be more ergonomic. Torzal also have a different neck design with a twist in it. I wonder how they compare to this Strandberg?
Thought that the tone of the guitar in this demo was fantastic and quite 'hi-fi' with great definition of each string. Not sure how much is down to the instrument or due to the 'amp' settings. Agree that the open trem spring cavity makes it look unfinished and a bit untidy. Think a matching, black alloy cover would look better.
Obvious comparison, but it does remind me of the later Steinberger M series gutars.
Thanks for the review, Phillip.
I have a Boden 08 and love it the weight is perfect and the range is unbelievable. I’ve played it as a bass before 😂
I’m sorry about this but I thought that sign behind the guy you showed in the very 1st clip read
LESS
BUTT
BUTTER 😂
It actually read Less But Better 😂
What an absolute gem of a guitar, I’d really like to get myself one of these, but pricey though aren’t they?
I had a the HSS in Malta Blue before the "pandemic" destroyed my business and made me sell almost all my gear. :( It was wonderful! I've seen more videos lately hating on the Strandberg neck, and to each their own, but I was always happy with mine. It was just so easy to pick up and play. Maybe I'll be able to grab another one day!
Good luck getting back to where you were.
Sorry to hear man. Yeah lot of bs that demic was. Can’t imagine working so hard to build a business only to be forced to close. Gd government tyrants
Got one this summer and after some time getting to know the guitar, I can honestly say that I have not used my "normal" guitars at all, they just feel wrong to me now. Brilliant design, effortless playing and no pain or fatigue at all in my hands or body. Highly recommended, even if it's expensive. Furthermore, it's really light, so no back och neck pain (looking at you Les Paul). Best guitar I ever played and owned. Top quality and built like a tank. The neck is what makes this guitar special. It actually works and makes you play more ergonomic. Took some time to get used to, but after that, there's no way I'm picking up my Strats or Solar or any other of my guitars. Very well intonated (best intonation I've had). Have not had to do any work on the guitar at all, setup from factory was spot on (has never happened before).
Played one today. Couldn't fault it except for the colour palettes. Mine was all white with black bits and fret board ( hardtail ) I think less is more with these. Easier on the eye.
Oooooooh, the green is so nice!
Being a HUGE death metal fan and player, I can also say that the NX7 Prog is an absolute beast. You need more distortion Philip,...🤘👍😝
Phil, I know you know your gear and taste better than everyone, but for the 'classic Hard-Rock' sounds you seem to enjoy, I would suggest that you try the Revv G4, you might enjoy...
I own an Alex Machacek (?) model with different pick-ups, and it works as a charm!
Thanks Phil, never tried one of those, actually I don't remember ever seeing one.
I don't know why, but for some reason I don't feel that the price tag is justified. I wonder what others feel the same.
Some impressive shredding at 5:13
I have been curious about these
So in the last year a local GC had a used 6 string standard that i got to play. The looks are still not for me and I do not have the frame that could pull one off on stage but holy hell! The body was comfortable and the neck was a revelation. I never wanted to put it down, I was probably in GC for over an hour playing. Shortly after another GC in my area got a 7 string version so I shot right over. Sadly the hand feel with the neck for me was not as magical as it was with the 6.
Funnily enough, I wasn’t big on the neck when I tried a 6-string Boden. But, I was looking for an 8 and ordered one off Reverb without having tried an 8 string and the neck was absolutely glorious for me.
The 5-Watt World guy has a Strandberg and did a history of it. I'd be interested to know whether the instrument has become his guitar of choice when he practices each day. Why don't you see Clapton or Slash playing them I wonder? Excellent video BTW - I like your content, Phillip - Happy New Year
They don't want a neck that tries to make them play a certain way. Easy.
Ned Ludd - My guess would be, like me, why own and play ugly pointy-assed guitars if you don't have to!!!
I didn't realise a guitar can't be good unless Clapton or slash play them 🙄
@@dizzygunner - Where did anyone say that?
@@nedludd3641 if that's not the case, why ask whether Clapton or slash play them at all? what relevance do they have to this conversation?
I would like to know how the tremelo felt; since it uses bearings like Ibanez's ZR system vs the traditional knife edge.
I gotta say these guitars are beautiful! But I highly recommend that people check out GOC guitars! For the price it’s a jem build quality is amazing! Would be nice if you could do a comparison! Great review of the strandberg!
Phil finally made a video on my guitar! I've been waiting forever, just make a video on aristides and I can die a happy man
Nice review, thanks Phil. About classical guitar fretboards, every one that I've ever seen is truly flat, no radius. Maybe some hybrids or whatever they're called have a radius.
True, but 15+ radius is more or less as flat as it gets