Honda’s slogan was, “ You meet the nicest people on a Honda.” HD’s biggest mistake was going public. The small, locally owned shops were run out of business. Instead the “resort dealer” took over. Priority was given to the shareholders, not customers. Tee shirts are more profitable than actual motorcycles.
Correct.. Pitiful, that today, the higher cost of the bikes are not to improve the brand.. The cost is to support the payments to the new CEO'S dead set on bringing Harley down. Same type being paid to destroy anything American..
@@jimmywall7325 Your last sentence, Same type(global criminal schmuck banksters) being payed/paying to destroy anything American(or whoever else they please). It's their MO !!! All gubberments are just fake fronts, all under their criminal control.
@@jimmywall7325 In America, there is this perception that CEOs/CFOs are like invaluable gods. Commoners trip all over themselves to give them the keys to the kingdom, pay them exorbitantly and elect them president. The Boomers and Gen Xers are all hyped up on Ayn Rand garbage and believe that anyone associated with b'ness is some kind of underappreciated savior of society.
I currently own a 2014 FLHTK and I know I paid to much for it in 2014! But you are telling the truth sir and this is not my first Harley. I will be purchasing elsewhere in the future!!!
Generation X'er here. Like you mentioned, I started on sport bikes but eventually moved to Victory and then a Harley (used). I love my Harley, but I just can't justify spending 30, 40 or 50K+ for a new one that still needs more thousands for "upgrades" to lighting, suspension and engine performance. Just my opinion.
Nailed it! A 30k bike that needs shocks because the stock shocks are bricks is a crock of sh*t. I own two Harleys, a '06 springer and a 2019 RG. I will not be buying another one.
I agree my family were all 1% and only rode Harleys and now a days it blows their minds how much they sell and honestly the HD bikes are not that great built to be honest not for 30k. Dudes that can afford brand new Harleys I see never ride them which is wild to me. I have a yahama bolt cause I can afford the street glide. Brand new with taxes it was a little over 8 grand and it's ready to rock when HD I need to make it stage 2-4 to get to most companies these days. When I can afford a bike I'll go with a Indian challenger.
ABSOLUTELY! I agree 100%. Owning two Harleys. Started out on a used Sportster as my 1st bikeand enjoying the hell out of it for 4 yrs until I could afford to upgrade to a big twin Softail. Which I did enjoy as well, however my biggest mistake was purchasing in brand new. High interest loan, expensive maintenance, overpriced maintenance items and parts, overpriced "upgrades", premium bike with less than premium performance. Why does H-D continue to put the shittiest brakes and suspension on one of the heaviest bikes out there on the road that doesn't really handle or corner that well either? H-D has had plenty of time and opportunity to improve, innovate and develop better , modernized bikes but is always decades behind everyone else selling the same antique bikes that hasn't changed much in decades. Yet expect customers to buy them for 2 or 4 times more than something from their competitors that offer something modern and up to date in performance, technology, reliable, and lower cost of ownership for significantly less rather than sell you an image and gouge you later. Indian is actually doing it right for an upcoming brand appealing to the American market both younger and older riders and offering a product that is priced accordingly and speaks for itself. Yes is price point is kinda up there with H-D yes but you get ALOT more for the money. The Japanese brands are really hard to beat nowadays and will last for ages and are the most reasonably priced and you get performing bikes and the latest hardware for the money. Just my $0.02. I'll always love H-D in my heart but they just need to get with it and make bigger necessary changes all across the board.
As a millennial, you nailed it on the cheaper transportation. At 24 I got a $6k Suzuki for a commuter. Then at 32, a couple years ago, got a small Kawasaki sport bike for $6k. Perfect bikes that are super reliable and cheap to maintain. Why ever in the world would I pay for a Harley, when I could get a new Japanese bike for a quarter of the price? All that matters to me is being on the road and not being broke, true freedom.
@@debasishraychawdhuri I think Honda realized that there was an image problem with motorcycling in the American market. This bad-boy image was strongly popularized by Hollywood. Don't forget, Hondas were first introduced as small motorcycles, hardly out of the scooter class. Harley-Davidson was not their competition, but the bad-boy image certainly was.
@@gromitdaddy Was it just that model, or that family? Cause there were multiple different Cubs, and also the Trail/Hunter Cubs. Hell, if they could keep those new Trail 125s in stock, I'd be adding on to that number, haha.
As a 46 yr old (Not a RUB) but old enough to be able to afford nicer stuff. I did my research, knew not to start on too big a bike. Really liked the street 750's as a starter bike. Literally got laughed at by the Harley dealership and pushed to a bigger bike that definitely would have been out of my skill level. Until the culture changes on bikes like that and the sportster being womens bikes, a lot of future customers will just go else where. I ended up with a Honda Shadow Phantom 750 as my first bike and never regretted that decision. Looking to upgrade to bigger bike soon and still have a bad taste in my mouth, so I have been looking at Indians a lot lately, especially with the HD service horror stories I have been hearing lately.
sorry to tell you but a sportster is not a womans bike...it is for anyone that wants to ride a bike with less weight and size.....there is no such thing as a bike just for women.....it is matter of personal preference...you should have bought the street 750 or a sportster...you didnt have to prove anything to those idiots at the hd dealer....they were just wanting you to spend more money
Hopefully your experience at one Harley dealership will not ruin the experience. Not all dealerships are created equally nor does a single employee at a dealership represent the overall atmosphere of said dealer. Unfortunately there are bad apples in some of the best dealerships. I hope you shared your experience and thoughts with someone at the dealership who should care about your experience. If someone at the management level doesn’t give a rip then shop somewhere else.
Hopefully your experience at one Harley dealership will not ruin the experience. Not all dealerships are created equally nor does a single employee at a dealership represent the overall atmosphere of said dealer. Unfortunately there are bad apples in some of the best dealerships. I hope you shared your experience and thoughts with someone at the dealership who should care about your experience. If someone at the management level doesn’t give a rip then shop somewhere else.
First bike was a kick-start shovel. Never even owned a sportster but I'll tell you the sportster was never intended to be a beginners bike nor a woman's bike.
I feel H-D is about conforming- same bike, same clothes , same bars, same rides. Riding with others makes me crazy. I just want to go out alone and enjoy the ride
Just get a Kawasucki, Soosucki, Hounda, or a Yamadog and no one will want to ride with you. That's what I found out the old-school HD heads call Jap bikes. That and Jap junk. They absolutely hate me. I'm the worst. I have a US made Goldwing. I'm a pariah.
Real friends who love to ride are never a bother. I don't tell them what to ride or what to wear. The image seekers? Tik-tok is waiting for you... sell your ride and good luck.
Price. 100% for the price of a harley I can get a bike like a ducati or bmw that are more powerful, sometimes just as comfortable, still cool as fuck, and have more to them (cruise control, heated grips other tech). Fuck I've wanted a breakout or fxdr for so long but for the price I need a bike that will do everything I want (travel and fun) so I lean towards the naked and sport touring bikes sadly
Almost the same everywhere....I like HD..but I have Japanese bike instead because of the price...
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I live in the UK and "the culture" here is more cafe racers than anything. Harleys are cool, but mostly loud and obnoxious machines that are for posers that want to act tuff in packs because by themselves they are mostly the exact snowflakes that they claim others to be, especially when you say "mean things" about their favourite motorcycle brand. In fact, some people base their whole personality out of having a Harley.
He has a point. Even someone born in 54 with 50+ years riding on over 60 bikes (5 HDs) can think that Southpark pretty well nailed it.
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South Park did nail it. I like Harleys but let's not pretend that they're not a product of a bygone era. That's why it's a "premium brand" now. It's made for 50+ year old people that have their houses paid for and the kids out of the house and that's ok, but even me with more than enough money to buy one, would only buy it as a 4th of 5th bike and even then I would go for an old shovelhead or something. Right now it's BMW GSA all the way. Not necessarily more affordable but something I can across the planet, as proven by Obi-Wan Kenobi himself and a segment that even H-D is trying (and failing miserably) to dip in.
Their riders literally do this at bars near me. Rev engines, Chris Stapleton blaring, obnoxious when they walk in. One bar by me banned cycle clubs. Too much fighting, and running women off.
I’m kind of disappointed that after buying my M8 that BRAND NEW it has a sumping issue and lubricant transfer from the transmission to the primary. Trask and others have solutions buy they aren’t cheap. You shouldn’t have to fix a brand new, expensive machine. Nobody else could get away with this nonsense. The Asians have made some cool bikes like the Warrior, the Valkarie, and the Honda 1800 but they just CANCEL them and leave the owners out to dry. HDs have problems but at least they are consistent.
Yeah. I’m 72 and riding 56 years, so I think we can hold down that long gray end of the market survey. Maybe I can’t afford (and don’t want) a new Bugatti Chiron, but can get whatever I want motorcycle-wise. I have never had a Harley, essentially none of my rider friends ride them either. Never did. It is a culture and a dealership experience that I do not get. I tried a few times over the evo and post evo years, an inexplicable itch for one arose a couple of times. Then I showed up and looked to get one at a dealership and boom it was over quickly. Don’t need that. There are other companies to buy perfectly wonderful motorcycles from. I would like it better if H-D could get re-centered and stay on the rails - just make rideable, comfortable, reliable, ownable, economical, fun, classy motorcycles. You know, motorcycles for people to use and love using. But if they can’t sort it out, the world will indeed just move on. If it happens that they cannot sort out something as obviously survival-oriented as not doing things that alienate the people they want to sell things to, I agree with you, no tears. This is not a generational issue in my opinion. I mean, a few years ago my good older friend got a bad diagnosis, rode to the Yukon from Santa Fe and back. Went to chemo. Recovered a bit and went to Wyoming or something for an optimized eclipse. Multiple trips up into Colorado and Idaho. Then, after the last one, he rode home and died a couple of months later. He was a rider. Total gearhead too. A real bike guy, smart and accomplished with a regular job and career. He never had an H-D for almost exactly what I said, lousy experiences, other options, and it had nothing to do with this simple minded BS about birth year.
I grew up on dirt bikes and I rode Harley Davidson and the real reason I stopped buying Harley is the dealerships these days. I walked into a dealership and you have to literally throw money in there faces to evenget them to talk to me and it makes me sick.
I’m 44 and have moved away from the crotch rockets to the cruisers. I do believe that the Harley dealers should move to more affordable bikes. I went with the India scout. Looks good and plenty of power👍
For me here's what it comes down to, I'm a blue collar guy in my 40's living in NY. HD is just to expensive for me to buy new. I have always had to buy second hand and even then there pricey at times. So I ride around on my carbureted HD's piecing them together to keep them running just to have one. It's a love hate relationship but financially it's all I have to work with.
You owe no apology for that. That is what it came from, exactly what you are doing. I built them from crash restorations and pieced them together from random crap for years. It is a labor of love, Brother. There’s really nothing else like a Harley and when I rip up into a crowd all it’s about is the respect. And my built bikes garner as many oohs and ahhh as anything else there. It’s a love thing and if I find myself where that’s not so I can count on my scoots to get me somewhere else.
Divorce yourself from this love/hate relationship. Get with a younger, hotter, faster firecracker. Maybe of Asian, Italian, or British descent. You deserve it. And the great thing is you can afford it too
@@jimdavidson7771 until any of those countries start actually focusing on the cruiser market they aren’t an option, imo. They make sport bikes with the occasional cruiser as an afterthought.
I'm torn. I bought a pretty sweet used harley at around age 22 and I'm 25 now, so over the last 3 years I have had a blast riding it, but here's the dilemma: Before owning a harley, I would walk around town and absolutely hate the intermittent disruption of a crazy loud exhaust. I would sit at a cafe and we'd have to stop the conversation for a solid minute until a harley was out of earshot. Then I try one myself and it's truly a fun thing, but I feel like a dickhead riding by homes or nice streets in town where I know i'm waking people up or ruining conversations, making babies cry, etc. Then there's all the cultural reasons this guy mentions above. Pile on top of that the all-in cost of a harley- loans, insurance, fuel, parts and labor, registration, etc. It's just as much of a financial curse as a car, except it cannot carry as many people or items as a car, AND you need good weather. Understand this. Every generation since the baby boomers has less wealth and more debt. I was born in 97. Simply owning a reasonable car might be out of the question for people like me and definitely the next generations. I'd be lucky to own a home, let alone recreational vehicles. It's no wonder why the younger market simply cannot justify the purchase, considering skyrocketing prices and all the risks involved in motorcycles in general. Riding a harley around is a truly thrilling, fun and novel experience. But it's just one of THOUSANDS of novel ways to travel. Considering how many other desirable, fun, and most importantly cheap and free options there are for commuters, buying a harley is not on my bucket list. Selling one is, though. If anyone is interested in a 2008 CVO hit me up lol. I'd like to save for a down payment on a home and be a bit more responsible with money.
From what I have seen and heard, a lot of younger people don't even want to get their licenses. Much less any kind of transportation except for 50 cc scooters. No licenses, no registration, and no insurance.
But I don't see now scooters cruising the country there mostly in the cities and around colleges. I'll stay with Harleys but there ain't no way I can afford new anymore, I figure those prices are for corporate people or people that has higher income careers. To me I like the old school bikes better and they don't look like there plastic. But I do see Harley and Indian losing there butts because of there prices. Young people for the price of a Harley would rather get a sports car than a 2 wheeler with just a 2 year warranty and reliability. Harley parts are like buying John Deere parts, I have to buy both lol. I like my v- twins and my evo's don't care to go newer
I agree with your assessment. I ride a Harley and my grandsons first two bikes were a Honda. He likes the style and cost of the 700-900 cc Japanese bikes because he can’t afford a $13,000 every level Harley. 🤷♂️
@@HoboHiney it should be required everywhere as long as it has a motor on it. They are going to pass it here in Louisiana, tired of them parking next to my bike and they fall over into mine or someone's else's
The saying you quoted re Honda is actually, "You meet the nicest people on a Honda". It was a marketing slogan that Honda used in the early 1960's when they first brought their motorcycles to America.
The kid is 100% right. I’ve been riding since I was a kid myself and now Harleys for the last 20 years. I love the bike but the culture rubs me totally the wrong way. It’s like some Harley riders are trying their best to look like hoodlums and outlaws. Sure, there are died in the wool thugs and very dangerous people that ride harleys, but come on people. MOST Harley riders these days are professionals and above-average earners in our day jobs. Stop with the ‘look at me I am tough’ mentality and just enjoy the bikes and the rides. The whole ‘we are dirty BIKERS and slobs that’ll kick your ass’ demeanor really doesn’t fly any more.
What gives you the right to judge anyone? Don't like the look, don't like the culture then ride a BMW. The "culture" is as old as the motorcycle company itself. I've been riding for thirty years, and I've always found Harley riders to be good people. Just because someone wears leather and jeans doesn't mean they are trying to be as you put it "hoodlums". To each his or her own. Different flavors for different people. Above average earners? Are you kidding me? Most Harley riders are blue collared hard-working Americans who love American built motorcycles. The high earner, professionals as you put it only make up a small percentage of Harley riders. So, if your offended by people's appearance than that's on you not the guy you're judging.
Well said, I think in my opinion it's a emphasis on stepping away from societal norms. Portraying the ideology that I do not follow the suit and tie lifestyle.
@@joeposato6662 or like me. Always wanted one and by the time I could afford one I was trucking otr and the last thing I want to do when I finally make it home is ride around. Bikes were always more of a quick trip over to see friends but the older I get the less I care to see anybody and if I go anywhere it's to pick up something that won't fit on a bike lol
My dad passed away a few tears ago, and he loved riding. He always had a few different bikes on hand. One or two Harleys and one metric cruiser for fun to mess around on. But he loved his Harleys, and we always talked about going for rides when I get my first bike. I really want to get a Harley sportster because it's the best option for beginners in th HD line up, but I can't afford it. You shouldn't have to pay 15k or more for something in the beginners' price point. I'd buy used but don't know enough about bikes to trust myself to know what to look for, and I don't want to be scammed. So it just kind of sucks because I knew how much he loved his Harleys, and I never got to ride with him. So i sit here now trying to remember my dad and have his spirit, but I can't because of the price point for HD beginner bikes.
I don't know, I'm a boomer and just purchased my first Harley. I always saw them as broken down, leaking oil, ruff riding and loud. Then early this year a friend had purchased a new Street Glide and he talked me into riding it. I really didn't want anything to do with it and why would I. I had a Yamaha FJR1300 and a BMW RT1200. In short, after riding his Street Glide, a few months later I purchased my own. I have to say I feel in love with that bike. I think Harley's problem is that they are pricing the bikes right out of the market and blaming everybody and thing except themself's. Super inflated pricing with quick and easy financing is no longer desirable for this generation. Just my 2 cents.
I'm a millennial (1987) I ride a Harley but I also own a Suzuki and Kawasaki. Started on sport bikes. After a bad wreck I made the transition over to cruisers. Started with a used sporty then a Yamaha midnight star. I'm still kicking myself for selling the Yamaha to HD to get an Electra glide. Wish I just bought the HD and kept the Yamaha. Now I'm on an 11 ultra limited. I considered buying the new Road Glide ST and they wanted 15k down and over $800 a month! THATS MORE THAN I PAY FOR A MERCEDES! There's no way I'll ever buy another new HD. HD makes a good bike but not great. Know who else makes a good bike? EVERY MAJOR MANUFACTURER. And I can pick up a BMW at this point cheaper than a Harley. The other brands have more bang for your buck. HD is shooting itself in the foot on a regular. My buddy just dropped $41k on a 131 Harley. Meanwhile I got home yesterday from buying a 2016 Kawasaki with 5800 miles for $4500. Reliability and price point are a huge factor. And by no means am I poor and can't afford a Harley. I'm just not about to waste money simply for a logo.
Been riding all my boomer life. I can tell you that I never felt like joining the Harley cult because they were the only riders that would rarely wave back. Love the bikes…hate the attitude.
@@petedoug I don't know... ...around Central Texas it's really rare for riders not to give the wave no matter what they're riding or to whom they're waving. Pretty friendly here. I've had to keep my hand and fingers out for sometimes scores of other Harley riders passing the other way, every one of them waving. Some of their passengers waving, too. Even the Bandidos wave but don't approach them at a stop unless they invite you over. Only times I haven't gotten a wave was if the other guy had his hands full at the moment or didn't see me.
To be honest, Harley isn't the only ones who are having a problem with this generation who wrote this letter, they say we're ruffians but they all need a safe space to retreat to when their feelings get hurt so who's really got the problem here😥
I'm part of the younger generation. I ride a motorcycle but Harley is overpriced for what they offer. My interaction with Harley riders is typically in the range of "it's not a real bike unless it's a Harley". They are always the ones with the loudest most obvious pipes on the roads as well. The whole idea of safe spaces is dumb so I 100% agree with you there. 👍
@@quinnhemmert3035 so your not man enough to stand up for what you ride? It don't make a hill of beans what you ride just Harley riders always say "It's Not a Harley" just to see where your at. You obviously can't take it so you run. Most Harley riders could care less what you ride oy your riding. Can you keep up. In a long distance ride are your butt cheeks sore or you still by my side? Tiffin up cuocake!
I agree with what you said about Harley pricing themselves out of sales. If they had more options in just the $10k price range they would sell a boat load of them.
Man, I don't even know if that's enough. Honda has those little 110cc Navis nowadays for under 2k (before fees anyways). They know how to get people on a bike.
I don't get why the v-twin bikes aren't selling new for around 10k. It's an air cooled bike that burns your legs. You can't tell me the extra highway bars and saddlebags cost thousands $$$ more than the missing radiator and fan. And you don't need all of the ABS and traction control. LOL, cruise control, wtf? Blinkers that auto turn off? Man, I just want a clunky, rumbling mess to cruise around in. If I wanted fancy I'd get a BMW or something.
You have to ride what is right for you. Not every biker is going to ride a Harley, not every biker wants to ride a Harley, and that is okay. Personally I love the Kawasaki Vulcans. Always have and always will. I've ridden bikes from every major brand and have found, for me, nothing compares to the feel of the Vulcans. Besides if you think about it whether you ride an HD or a Metric bike it's all the same wind.
When I started riding in 1967 it was all about performance and handling. British at first, then Japanese. Then in 1969 a social upheaval occurred called Easy Rider. Few of us even understood the movie, but those bikes...the look, the sound. We had to have 'em. They weren't fast, they didn't have to be. They weren't comfortable, heck, they weren't even safe. But they were sooo cool. That's when we noticed H-D using the biker image or culture in their marketing, even though Fonda and Hopper weren't "bad bikers" . They were pushers. They were also free, in the wind, enjoying the experience without pressure. And H-D used this ideology brilliantly, IMO. But 50+ years later it's beginning to wear out. Values change. I'm 73 now, and I still ride an H-D FXDB. Again, the look, the sound, nothing comes close. It's not "fast", but it doesn't have to be. I couldn't care less about the beer, babes and bikes culture, I've never even had a beer, and I'm no tough guy biker. Just enjoy the ride.
Harley programmed you at a young age and it obviously stuck..... Sadly They prey on certain peoples mentality... they hooked you with the image stuff from Easy Rider and such...Well at least you realize the mistake you made ever buying them....most people never break free of the brain washing like tactics...Brain washing is The only way anyone would buy an over-priced underperforming product and continue buying...Should be a Law against companies doing that to people.. thankfully I never fell for their shenanigans..No Sir.. I Demand Quality Performance and Reliability. I'm a True motorcyclist enthusiast. I don't buy Sub-Par anything.
I agree 100% about loud and obnoxious! 95% of HD riders buy the loudest exhaust they can Find! I ride with some, a day next to one at 70-80 mph gets old quick...
As a "younger" rider, being 28, I found a lot about Harley I did and didn't like. Price was a serious issue. I ended up buying a 2022 iron 883. Shortly after I got the chance to work at a local dealership and I was quickly met with a lot of negatives. Most pertaining to price as any part to customize the bikes are so expensive. I grew up thinking harley was a company built with the ideology of personalization being a focal point. But at easily $100 for something rather generic I was disappointed. Then it became a lack of options. Harley had very limited options for my bike with a lot of the ones I like not being compatible. If I could go back and get a cheaper bike to have the extra money to put into it, I would in a heartbeat. Harley has had members openly admit they are now trying to image themselves as a "luxury" brand. I just don't have the love for the company I used to.
Oh hell, couldn't deal with Harley " culture 40 years ago and I'm 59! I know a lot of righteously cool Harley riders, but I could never deal with social baggage.
I learned to ride on HD bikes and rode them as a police officer. The last bike I bought was a Yamaha Royal Star touring cruiser. Why? Harley's prices, business practices, and what you get for what you spend, made it an easy decision to walk away from them. That was back in 2007 when I bought the Yamaha. I absolutely love that bike and still have it. It's been on numerous road trips with me and currently has 170k on it. I'm thinking of getting a second bike to help with the mileage duties since the Yamaha is getting up there in mileage yet still reliable as the day is long and more so than any HD I've ridden. With their current status and offerings at the prices, I won't be looking at them. While I'm not a GenX kid (I'm 54) I can afford an HD but for what they want for the 2023 lineup, I refuse to get ripped off. HD doesn't seem to understand that at the prices they want you cannot attract these young folks. They are at the beginning of their careers so they don't make top dollar, may have a wife/husband and kids, and TONS have student loans. The suits at HD simply don't get it and it may well be to the detriment of the company.
I am a GenX'er. I am from a family of Harley Riders. I love both Indian and Harley due to their history in our Country. However, I was slightly turned off when Harley catered to Hollywood a while back. I love the feel of running from state to state chasing beers, whiskey, and tacos. I love runs to Yellowstone, Sturgis and Gatlinburg. And most importantly, I don't take for granted the time I get with my riding brothers when we roll out for weeks on end, tent camping and drinking around campfires as we cross the country for no more than to just say we did it. When I'm out on runs, I go from being a 47 year old to being a 16 year old again real freaking quick (along with the small circle of bro's I run with). We do stupid shit and have fun. I don't look at a watch and I don't answer the phone unless its family. If you don't have a bit of FTW in ya, you just won't understand the culture.
@@FranBunnyFFXII Yeah, I know, I have both. But man, sometimes they can get weird looking. I will probably add a Road King or a fat Boy in a few years if they don't change the style too much. Just love to ride.
What part of Indian's history do you like? The part where they went out of business 8 times or the part where the Indian name was passed around more than a Tijuana whore?
I think the reason HD catered to Hollywood was from a desperate attempt to appeal to broader and younger audiences. It was a business decision that didn’t seem to go anywhere. Harley is struggling to find an inroad with younger riders and is looking for a way to appeal to them. The younger generations seem to be somewhat lost themselves. As a group, they are fickle, pampered and seem to have little long-term interest in many things. I wouldn’t take it personal. Just my opinion
I think Harley has made some awesome moves in the past several years. The M8 motor in 2017 in the baggers. The new softail frame in 2018. Bringing back the Low Rider S in 2020. The Pan America. The Low Rider ST. Road Glide ST. Street Glide ST. The 122, 128, and 131 big bore kits. The new Sportster S (which I’m not personally a fan of but it is a big improvement over the old Sportster in terms of performance). I understand the need to market your product, but it shouldn’t be done at the expense of history, heritage, and culture. Our society has become too fragmented and individualistic. One of the many things I love about Harley Davidson is the camaraderie. When you buy a Harley, you are not just buying a form of transportation, although it is that. You’re also entering into a culture and history that is bigger than yourself. Stay true Harley. There’s legions of fans out here that support you. Ride safe everybody. Rant complete.
I've always wanted an HD but chose to buy Honda because of reliability, cost, and similar styling. Reliability has gotten better , cost is still terrible , but was fortunate enough to get a '14 FLHXS on a sweet deal from a used non-HD bike dealership. Very happy with it. Rides like a charm. Doesn't leak any fluids. It took me until 38 years old to finally afford one. Point being , I totally agree with you. Cost of owning one , insuring it , and maintaining it , could easily drop $500-700 per month on someone's head. Most younger kids jumping on bikes already know this , therefore won't even step foot on HD property. Many would like to own one , but see their products as a "maybe one day" dream.
I'm Gen-X and perfectly content with Honda's reliability and price point! My Rebel 1100 for fun rides around town. If I ever want a chopper like bike, I'll get a Fury. Whenever I retire and want the couch on wheels, lol. Then there is the Goldwing.
Over 200,000 miles across 6 Harleys. 1 mechanical. Voltage regulator on 1999 FXDX, push started 150 miles to Harley shop they fixed it fast, I was traveling. I stopped for a young man broke down last month, it was a Honda.
H.D. is in some ways an American Porsche on two wheels. But as a middle class guy I love Harley's having owned 17 bikes over past 35 years, starting with a Honda at 18. Over Half my bikes have been non HD and I'll put it this way...a Harley is an investment not just a motorcycle. One can enjoy riding it and knowing it retains its value much better than any other brand, then pay it off and use it for collateral when purchasing a home, etc.
@@jonathanheavner7040 It was brand new a 2021 with 1100 miles. The charging system failed. Not a big deal. Point is new bikes rarely fail and all models will have them.
I'm a 68 year old USMC & US Army Veteran, I was ready to buy a new motorcycle this spring, I had $12K in savings for a down payment, I wanted a 2023 HD 750 Street, not avalible. I looked at other HD models, then in May the Bud Light Dylan Mulvaney Beer Can & Budweiser Harley-Davidson Beer Cans, bad timing for HD. I started looking @ other brands & in August I bought a new 2023 Kawasaki Vulcan 900 classic LT, for $10K cash & had $2K for upgrades.
Hollywood, remember when Harleys were beautiful. They were just right man. You could take the tank off and step back to look at the bike. It was still great looking even without a tank. You could take the seat off, same thing. Still would look gorgeous. Harley has finally completely ruined their entire line of bikes. Check it out man. Road king and sportster were the last decent looking bikes. Gone. Dyna, gone. Electra glide, gone.
I’m a Boomer. I like the culture. I just don’t like the dealers trying to stave off their demise with markups. I can and have afforded everything Harley sells. Never again. No standard heel shifter? Paying $1350 dollars for blacked out bike, then noticing chrome saddlebag latches? No doubt to force you to look at them everyday or give them another $79.99 to replace them! Harley is asking their most loyal customers to bend over to keep them afloat. They don’t even lube you. No, millennials are having a difficult time purchasing a house. $30,000 toys are out of reach. Has nothing to do with ideology!
I just bought a 2014 FLSTFB with less than 5K miles on it for $11k (including a 2 yr extended warranty + wheel&tire, as well as 36 mo scheduled maint). This is my 8th bike and 5th Harley. I could give 2 shits what millennials and lazy-assed Gen-Z's think about the price point. I've also owned several metrics in my 58 years (I'm a Gen-X, right on the cusp of leaving behind the boomer gen), and can say with confidence I'll stick with Harley. I *ALMOST* bought an Indian this time around, but I'm a Harley guy, through and through. This is my first previously owned bike (a garage queen in its previous life), and have no worries about its reliability. Current generations just need to learn to appreciate a thing for what it is instead of constantly whining about "I don't make enough money because I haven't put in the time to increase my value in order to increase my wages" bullsh!t. Rome wasn't built in a day, junior. Put in the time, effort, blood, sweat, and tears, then reap the rewards of the value you provide to the economy and working market. Spoiled, numb-nutted, nit-witted, twat-filters. Two years of lock-downs and government hand-outs have completely ruined any work ethic America HAD, save the Gen-X'ers, Boomers, and those who came before that are still kickin it and makin bank.
Well said ! Most millennials don't own a Harley, or even a house ! Many live with their parents, have large debt with the latest cell phone, plus a recreational drug habit.. That is why they want cheap, reliable transportation (who doesn't). Social causes and diversity are their culture with shallow electronic family connections. This seems to be their form of entertainment, drama and rebellion ! Now it is their turn to be the perfect parents and correct the mistakes we made.I would advise them to be committed, accountable and responsible.
I love all motorcycles. Over my lifetime I have bought what I can afford and enjoyed every ride. Finally bought my first Harley when I was 55. I'm now on my third, but it will probably be my last. They have gotten too expensive and I will need to start moving to lighter bikes sooner than later.
I bought me a 125cc motorcycle/scooter. It's super light and I use it around town, the bank, the library, the store and just cruising around. Now my heavier bike is used for highway and freeway where the weight is less noticeable.
I’m 34 years old. Rode dirt my whole life. Just got my first road legal bike. Bought myself a Honda dual sport, to adventure ride. One of my buddies and i did 135 miles down in berks county PA a couple weekends ago when the weather was spectacular for the season…55° and sunny. Of course every guy and gal that loves to ride was out riding. Big groups, small groups. We passed a chain of bikes, maybe 40 of them, and they were all makes and models, from Harleys to 3 brand new Honda super cubs at the back. I’m a polite person so I wave at every biker, I don’t care what you ride, I just want more guys and gals riding, period. I made a mental note, because not one Harley rider would take their hand off the bars to wave at two guys, one on a Honda another on a triumph. To each their own, but the “you don’t have or ride a Harley, therefore you are inferior or less of a man” mantra was never my cup of tea, and I’m not knocking it. But we passed 100bikes that day, none of the Harley guys could stoop down to our level and give a friendly wave. Who cares what you ride, it’s the feeling the bike gives you deep down in your soul.
64 years old here, bought my first HD. Been able to afford one for a long, long, long time, but just felt that the value wasn't there. I ended up buying a used Milwaukee 8 107 CI Sport Glide. Wouldn't buy from a HD dealership, they are downright crooked and corrupt. Instead bought from a private party and probably saved myself $4000 to $5500 on a 5 year old HD. Dealerships want $16-$17000 for the 2018 I bought. They try to snatch up every private party used HD they can find. I finally found one for sale used from a Private Party, and it's everything I've ever wanted in a Cruiser, and for a fair and reasonable price. Forks weeped oil on it, 3 HD dealerships said it needed new fork seals for $650. Went to an independent repair shop, said I needed new seals and bushings and it would be $350 to $400. Went online, watched a smart british guy cut up a 1 gallon plastic milk jug with a utility knife to fabricate a tool, and slid it up the forks after carefully wiping everything off of the forks with a soft cloth, and fix the leaking seals. Did the same myself, the milk jug was free. So yeah, I feel Harley Davidson shops are absolutely criminal. Ask the service department to clean your fork seals if they are leaking, and see what they try to charge you for, for repairs, if they even will.
I think that the sales never recovered because the twin cam sucked and was not a step forward from the Evo, which was already 25 years behind competitors' designs in terms of not producing multiport, overhead cam heads. Obtaining port velocity while retaining port volume would have been like having our cake and eating it too. Aftermarket companies brought it to light that the single crank journal that drove two pistons rods together was being supported by roller bearings as opposed to the previous Timken bearings. The aftermarket maximized on the opportunity to fill that gap with their welded, balanced, Timken design which provided a way back to gear driven cams. The crappy plastic cam tension guide for chain driven cams was becoming a well-known problem. To add fuel to the flame, the engine design ignored the modern V-Rod motor that with liquid cooling and 500 more cc's would open HD motors to better cam timing and ignition maps due to the predictive liquid-cooled environment of the motor. Who wouldn't want a 1700cc V-Rod in one of the FLH variants? Harley increased its mass manufacturing runnout tolerances It was a slap in the face to technology and anyone with half a brain at this point, but yet still Harley kept raising the prices of P.O.S. designs in the name of "The Purests," Even the gear boxes and compensators suck. Baker has one gear on his main shaft and Harley has four (translation = Clunk) when going into gear. I'm generation X and after spending all the money I had to spend to fix the deliberate de-engineering of the HD, I feel that I was ripped off. "Oh but here's a Screaming Eagle catalog to put the parts that we should have put on your overpriced, air cooled P.O.S. in the first place." Just keep moving that stroke out further to the edge of the flywheel to band-aid a crappy design. The M8 is just an Evo with multiports and mild liquid cooling in the head but too little too late. That's why I won't buy another. Get a Goldwing and save yourself the trouble.
RELIABILITY ??? This actually happened to me and my two riding buddies in 1971. If they see this, they will remember. The three of us and their two wives and my girl friend took a trip to Palomar Observatory from San Diego. I and Nancy on my 1965 Pan Head, Charley and wife Marion on a 1969 Triumph 650, and Larry and wife Susan on a fairly new 750 Honda. It was a typical beautiful Southern California day. We were having a wonderful ride until Larrys' Honda began to over heat and seeze up. So we tied a rope to the back of my Harley and wrapped (not tied) it around Larrys' handle bars so I could tow him and Susan. This worked well. But low and behold, a little while later Charleys' Triumph had the same break down. So we tied another rope to the back of Larrys' Honda, and wrapped it around Charleys' handle bars. There we were, my old Pan towing the two of them. We were able to take our time in the mountains, but Interstate 5 was a different story. And it was dark. We had to kick it on up to keep from getting run over. The old Pan performed perfectly without a glitch all the way back to Ocean Beach. That old Pan carried Nancy and I on many trips to the mountains and dessert. I also road it every day to Point Loma Submarine base. It was the only transportation I had. It never once let me down. I took care of it and didn't abuse it. I have had cense then a 78 Shovel, 82 Shovel, 57 Pan, 63 Pan, and a 86 FXSTC Block Head. Several hundred thousand miles later, not once did any of them let me down. This is a honest testament. IN THE WIND
The un-marketing concept is funny because when I worked in marketing for a H-D dealership we hired those very people. If you cut them they bleed orange and black. We hired the long haired, cut wearin, bearded guys in sales. If you didn't know your Knuckle from your Shovel they didn't want to talk. I was hired on because I knew social media but I was a sport guy at heart. I rode a Buell M2 Cyclone during my tenure there. I was in a meeting where we were talking about the new model roll out and I was shocked. We had an updated radio, an updated rear end for the Tri Glide and new colors on last years offering. That's it! Oh. . . and the Tri Glide update was to fix a known issue.
One of the big problems in my opinion is, Harley-Davidson is catering to their stockholders to the point they are pricing themselves out of the market. Yes, People are buying Harleys from the dealership, but alot more are being sold from the private sector, myself included. I retired recently and always wanted a Harley. But, couldn't pay that huge price. I found an excellent bike very well taken care of for $6,200. Since Harley is targeting the millennia sector (imop), is produce an engine capable of producing more Horsepower and liquid cooled. I think alot of the younger people see Harleys as a big, very slow hunk of steel. Change is inevitable, but of course Harley wants to keep the brand alive, then they are going to have to change the bikes and attitudes of people. I Love Harley-Davidson especially the history that comes with it. and love the old school nostalgic look. But I also know they need to change, in order to stay in business.
I'm in between a rock and a hard place... I have to much into it to sell for a decent return and to practically give it away..... Stuck with this one for the rest of my life.... not complaining but a fact. I came from Rockets all my life but after my kidney transplant and turning 54 had to leave the speed to the young guns
Price is definitely the biggest issue, but I think selection is the 2nd one. They don't need to get rid of their classic styled stuff, but they shouldn't be just satisfied with it. If you look at someone like Honda, you can get all types of bikes, across all types of CCs. From little 50cc scooters, to dirt bikes, sports bikes, cruisers, touring, adv. They've got it all. Someone starting off on some little Metropolitan or Ruckus has so many different options branching off from that.
Im 58. I've ridden metric bikes since i was 16. I bought a 2020 Road Glide limited a year ago. I bought a 2015 Roadmaster yesterday. I love them both. My Harley dealership is excellent, fair,and friendly. My Indian dealership is the same. I just don't get all the animosity towards Harley davidson. They are an American for-profit company. They are free to make as much money as they can. I'm happy that people are on two wheels regardless of what they ride.
The only thing they need to change is the price. I love Harley and won’t buy anything else but just because I’ll drop 23K on a low rider doesn’t mean enough people will. You’re absolutely right too that new sportster should be 10k. I bought my sportster new in 2017 for I think 8k
@@hootertexas9711 ... Bullsh!t. I just priced out the new Scouts (both 60's and Bobbers). They USED to be under $10k, but not today bud. I ended up buying a decked out garage queen 2014 FLSTFB for ~$11K (103ci) and will put it up against ANY of the current year Scouts. Then again, I put in some research before I dropped the hammer on the purchase. People today are too lazy to look for deals. They just want to walk in and be handed the best price, then bitch when it doesn't meet their expectations, or unfounded (lower than market) value.
Don’t forget a kind of hidden social metamorphosis … When I was a teenager, at the beginnings of the mullet decade, dirt bike was so cool… We grew a little up and move to the big cruiser circus in the 90s and 00s. We liked the road, but miss a little dirt. Then came big reliable ADV bikes. A lot of us wouldn’t resist the appeal of 80/20 riding, moving from the city to the backcountry and back. This is called… best of both worlds. We’ll never go back to the cruiser circus, clowns, acrobats and costumes; we just found back some of our roots and we’re mixing them with (still a lot of) pavement. Midlife crisis? Maybe. A new variation of HD cosplay? To a certain extent, yeah… But ain’t gonna buy any road-only bike anymore, cause a little good old dirt just makes life… wiser.
I'm 55 and street riding is boring to me. I have a dirt bike, Duel Sport, and ADV bike. Very doubtful I will ever buy a cruiser again. Just the thought of jumping on a 700+ lb motorcycle makes me cringe.
I'm 70 YO. I just bought a Honda Rebel 500 after I crashed my Liter bike. I have owned 6 new bikes in my years none were HD's. If HD would make a 500, 750 , 900 CC bike amf price it under 10 grand then with the right advertising I think many young riders would buy HD's. I don't know anyone in their right mind that would pay 20 thousand dollars for a motorcycle in today's economy. I know I'm not that stupid. Now there are folks that make big money that can afford to dole out the cash or can afford the financing; Most of us can not.
Young fella at my local dealer was telling me the young kids don't like the forwards he said we wear sneakers and full face helmets. He was trying to convince me that was the new way. I told him with all due respect I'll never be that way. I'm 50 and if we all die out and that style takes over so b it but I ain't changing. Then he went on to ask me how the 80s were he was so fascinated at how crazy n free we were then.
I’m a 70s kid. Raced dirt bikes, still got a garage full of them. then superbikes in 2000 I took a almost brand new super glide sport px on the fastest latest Japanese thing. Only because a local HD dealer said he’d take off me right away. The problem was I quite liked it. It was so unlike anything I’d ever owned it was mostly black with just enough chrome to make the black paint look even better. I sold it to the dealer a few months later. It’s embarrassing but it was pier pressure from my sports bike mates. I said it was embarrassing. I never forgot how good it looked Ive always loved the look of that bikes with twin shocks. Jump forward and I bought a Buell then another and a third. By then I was in a club that all had Harley’s And decided they wasn’t really my thing but if I was going to get one it had to be another DYNA. It was love at first ride. I’ve never spent so much time on a bike. I have a beautiful gloss black Harley sat in my garage. It’s everything a proper Harley should be. Being one of the last of the dyna s it handles superb, brakes are abs with cvo floating disks. It has the big fat stanchions rock solid and the Harley premium Showa shocks, it’s mine, I still don’t like Harley’s but I love mine. The new model’s don’t do anything for me what so ever you can tell me the new ones are a couple of mph faster and if you test one the handling is ever so slightly better. Well I had a M109R before this and if i want all that. there’s a fireblade sat in the garage that does thousands of miles per hour. Corners like formula 1 car. And is smoother and quieter that electric. The point I’m trying to make is most Harley riders like Harley to be Harley’s air cooled a bit shaky and loud. feel the way only a Harley does. I have tried a new ones. Sorry but it makes want to stick with my dyna Lowrider s even more Harley don’t seem to know there own market. The kids can’t afford them. The guys who can like there current bikes better. The buyer in the middle don’t consider a Indian Harley a Harley. So they buy a mint second hand bike instead and I don’t blame them. Harley is scaring all its own customers away. They spend money on the bike they have because there’s nothing in the showrooms for them / me. Cheers
Reliability is the most important thing to me as a motorcyclist. I'm a first time Harley owner who doesn't give a shit about Harley culture. I pray my road glide doesn't let me down because Harley WILL lose my business.
Both of these other comments are great and true. Maintenance is the key. I got my first Harley in 1988. It was 4 yrs old and I was the third owner. I still ride it daily. I have over 150,000 on it and upgraded the displacement once after a ring broke. It's .100 over stock. Only reason ring broke was me racing it. Stock it would out run a lot of bikes and it held the track record for years. She was a mid year 1984 FXRT. I don't race anymore but she still will give you a run for the money. Maintenance is tge key with regular oil changes religiously.
My brand new 2022 harley davidson softail shutoff while i was riding in the middle of busy traffic, kinda scary, mechanic checked the bike and said its ok
You may recall the Movie “ The Wild Ones” where gangster motorcyclist ( mostly WWII vets) took over a town. That movie attracted a number of boomers, but only a small number. Honda came to public notice in the early 60’s and attracted a large number of customers by using the slogan “ You meet the nicest people on a Honda.” My first bike was a Honda 90, it was cheap, dependable and easy to maintain. I rode a few other brands including the H/D , but found that the Honda met all my needs, and I did meet nice people who rode the Honda. I’m 74 years old and continue to ride. My ride now is a Goldwing. My son recently bought a bike and asked me what he should buy. A Honda was the only choice.
Harley-Davidson should bring their prices down to where the metric bikes are and that would make them more competitive and more people would want to buy them. Also have a better guarantee on the bike. Like a full warranty lifetime warranty that will catch everybody's eye
There is no need to do either. Harley’s are for people who know high quality bikes and can afford them. The materials used on Harley’s are far superior compared to other manufacturers in the same class of motorcycles. Their resale value is also much higher than other brands.
The Honda slogan was - you meet the nicest people on a Honda. Dad's rode goldwings my entire life. I had a VROD for years and the flak that I got from guys one big twins was obnoxious. I now have a 15 Fatboy that's been bobbed out. I love Harley motorcycles but a good portion of their owners stick their nose up at people who ride anything else, which is very sad.
Even the Indian made Royal Enfield's are reliable now a days. Manufacturing standards have gotten so good that even cheap crap brands are somewhat reliable. And you are right on about the buy American thing. I am a die hard buy American guy, when HD ticked me off I started buying Victory's. But I mention to people at work that I have American made cars and bikes for the "buy American" reason and they look at me like I have two heads.
Because even the "made in America" cars and trucks are full of foreign parts. LOL< I used to laugh at work when I saw a "Build America with American Products" sticker on a Cat excavator. You sure as fuck don't see those stickers anymore on your Made in Brazil (with parts from: hungary, China, Ukraine, etc.etc.) construction equipment.
@@imanrobota4849 But you can still find some "mostly made in America" things. One of the reasons we bought a Lincoln for instance was the model was 65% American made. That's better than 0%.
I'm 63 years old, and I had a 2013 Heritage Softail Classic Anniversary that I bought new, and sold in 2022... and a '97 Dyna Low before that. I now have a 2012 Triumph Thunderbird 1600 ABS and I love it! And yes, it was the culture and the politics that made me switch away from HD. Not to mention that my current Thunderbird would run rings around my Softail at half the price.
Honda motto was you meet the nicest people on a Honda. Harley-Davidson did not embrace the so-called Outlaw culture up until the '90s which the rich Urban bikers started showing money at them so they can play badass biker at bike night at the local bar. They have promoted the ride to drink drink to ride lifestyle so much it is endemic in the brand and people who want to buy a motorcycle want to buy a motorcycle not a lifestyle. It used to be when you went to a motorcycle party you knew a lot of people there now you don't know anybody's there. There is no camaraderie other than birds of a feather flock together.
I agree to they stopped HOG Rallies. I eould spend my summers going to 4-5 rallies each summer. Now it's Sturgis and home! Harley abandoned me not me to them. Even my life time membership I don't get a magazine monthly anylonger. It's digital and I live in bush Alaska. No internet, computer, electric or running water yet. Who needs that? Not a real man.
Harley executives made a wrong decision when they sided with the runs. From that point on it was all about the money. Priced themselves right out of the market.
I’ve been riding Harley’s for 50 years but I’ve never bought a bike from them, drag raced Harley’s in the 80s. Harley’s came with inherent problems and knowing what they were in the evo I preferred to build my own and bypass the built in upcoming failures, we knew through performance what was weak ! Delkron cases were my favorite.
I’m a millenial (born in 1985) and I totally disagree. I bought my first Harley last Summer and I love it. Before the Harley, I owned a Vulcan 1500 which was my first bike. Like most folks my age, I thought about going the sportsbike route for first bike but but decided to get a cruiserinstead and I’m so glad I did. This goes to show that most criticism towards Harley from the younger generation are baselesss generalizations and don’t necessarily represent the views of the individual.
as a Union Carpenter I always wanted to buy American, but I'm not a harley guy! In 1986 when I finished my apprenticeship and had some money to spend there were no American bikes that attracted me......I bought a house instead of a bike, would'nt buy a rice burner and could'nt afford a BMW.....I almost bought a Honda Gold wing, my brother did though.
I’m 22 and own a 22 ultra limited. I’ve had a ton of younger riders say shit to me about riding a HD. “ that’s an old man bike” is usually what I’m told.. not that I give a damn lol
You see more an enjoy things when you go slow I had a sport bike but it bugged the crap out of people cause I wouldn't get faster than 55 rofl I would ride along in 3 gear with the gas cracked so most of the time I was running slower than the speed limit. I did ever now an then crank it up. But when i sold it my dad looked at my an said "well I hate you sold your bike but I'm so happy its gone" lol
@@hellsrs470 I’ve ridden leader bikes before and been well into triple digits. (in Mexico of course ;)…. ) that’s is exciting but ide much rather be on my air ride bagger just relaxing and enjoying the wind with my wife
Generation Z here (23), I have had 2 sports bikes, a victory, an iron 1200 and now looking at the sportster s. If it wasn’t for the Revmax platform I wouldn’t be a Harley customer anymore. The biggest things for me and my riding friends is 1 - the cost, the entry level has become too expensive. For the money you are putting down other brands offer more bang for the buck. I understand Harley is marketed as a premium product but that only goes so far 2- the dealerships I bought a Honda CBR brand new and the dealer expirence was phenomenal. When I went to purchase the sportster s from my local dealer they almost laughed me out the door. I suppose they thought i was too young to own a Harley. The sales man literally said “the T shirts are over there, all these bikes would be out of your budget” I ended up travelling over an hour to the next dealer where they have been treating me really good. But honestly after the Sportster S I don’t think I will be staying inside the Harley bubble
if the sporster s was suppose to be aimed at the m's and z's then perhaps HD shouldn't have stuck a higher tag on it than what they even had listed on the stickers of the demos at Sturgis. Its a nice bike and is quicker than most think but if anything should be closer to 10k than closer to 20k honestly. the thing the person failed to realize is that the biker culture isn't the same as their beloved cancel culture by any means. Honestly HD's of being rebellious is more our gen x attitudes of not caring much about the nit picky things. But honestly though the prices I'm sure have the most to do with things going south for HD not to mention their recent lack or reliability to go along with. 19.3k on my motor before the compensator shattered into pieces causing me to replace the whole motor only good thing was it was within the warranty timeframe had it not been I'd been pissed off majorly being the bike wasn't even two years old yet when it blew. Before anyone says and thinks oh need to make sure you change the oil blah blah.. let me say that the bike has had the HD dealership do the maintenance at every point up to where it gave out. In fact it was already setup to go in for its 20k work 3 weeks later but never made it. So yeah HD has to stop with the cheap parts if they are going to be charging premium prices. If they want to use all these plastic and nearly completely unfinished molded parts then they need to lower the prices to be more on set with the quality of what they are putting out lately. Even those with the S have had issues from the start that i've been seeing which i'm sure for a 16k+ bike it shouldn't be having any major issues especially with starting due to some sort of computer glitch. So yeah somewhat agree with them but not on everything.
In the wind is a state of mind. How you get there, doesn't really matter. For me, growing up in Milwaukee, the biker image was pretty hard-core to say the least. When I started learning the value of a hard earned dollar in the late 70s, and started a family in the mid 80s. I realized right away I could have alot more fun for alot less money, if I didn't fall victim to some fantasy motorcycle that broke everytime I rode it over 85mph. Loud pipes and tons of chrome only get you soo far. I'm too performance oriented to ever really want a HD. Any bike can be great if you pour money into it. I just can't ever see spending 25k+ to feel cool enough to hang out. There's quite a few really good bikes being sold for under 15k that will embarrass 95% of anything HD has ever made. I've got 16k into my Triumph Speed Twin with plenty of custom parts since new.
My super glide was about 7k, with less than 5k additional mods and motor work, that bike can perform. 12k is a lot different than 25k, stop bloating numbers lmao.
@@Dexatron Your talking about used bikes, is it that hard to understand? What HD is under 15k new that isn't a Sporty? Gotta compare apples to apples, there rocketman.
@@andrewbecker3700 nobody is buying brand new bikes when they are first getting into Harley’s. Only old people do that shit when they finally decide they wanna ride a Harley at 55. I couldn’t name a single person I know that rides that bought brand new for their first bike. It’s actually ridiculous to think that would be the case. But someone who feels they have to spend 25k on a brand new Harley to fit in, tells me everything I need to know about what kind of rider you are rocket man
I'm 28 (Gen-Z), I think my geration is craving the next generation of HD! We love Harley's, but it's the price... We just wanna ride 🤷♂️, maintenance, performance per dollar, exc... it adds up to be a luxury far more than a motorcycling experience 😢 I don't think we have an issue with spending the extra money on quality products. HD just needs to real us in on quality. If they had the sound of a Harley, but it rode like a V-rod. I do think lines would start forming again. But not for $30,000
I'm over 50 & have both a Harley & a couple of Hondas...so far as reliability goes, the Hondas have them beat hands down...but the Harley is actually the better riding bike...but this is my last Harley, if I ever get rid of it, I'll never have another one...I like being able to put the key in & go...put gas in it & ride it...the Hondas do that...the Harley, on the other hand, for a bike with the reputation of being so badass, you sure do have to pet & coddle them to keep them on the road...I'm old & don't like hassles & every Harley I've ever had has given me hassles every time I turn around...if this one wasn't paid for, I'd have already sold it for a Kawasaki Voyager...
You got it spot on, as part of the Millennials age range I can't never justify spending 30K+ on a motorcycle. When I started riding, I started on an old dirt bike and eventually moved up a cruiser, I wanted a hardly but the cost pushed me by a brand new Honda Shadow for 8k, things runs like a Honda zero issues smooth cheap and reliable
I am the Harley stereo type. I’m in my 50’s rode Japanese and German until I could afford nice Harleys. Harley just needs to work on quality to make every one want one and when they can they will buy. I ride all 12 months in Colorado when I can, it is not transportation it is a way of life. Let the used market and other brands fill the gap like they always have and make Harley something you work way up to. Harley just needs to improve an make it worth it.
Funny I bought a brand new FXRS in 1990, at 21 years old. Now at 55 I ride a Honda ST1300. With all the used Harleys on the market I may just get one, there are plenty of cheap low mileage garage furniture out there. The dealerships have turned into entertainment venues🤮. Harley isn’t doing well, they financed anyone with a pulse, and now they are repossessing bikes faster than they are selling them. Driving the prices even lower.
I'm an Army Vet. Been riding for over 40 years. Started out on a Honda at 18, I'm currently on a 2021 Heritage and absolutely love it. I didn't buy it to look cool ,or act tough, or be a 1%er wannabe. And I've never watched a single episode Sons of Anarchy. I bought the bike because I thought is was a beautiful machine with fewer bells and whistles, and a more pure and simple riding experience. And I wasn't wrong. I'll ride with anyone that loves riding and loves motorcycles. It doesn't matter what they ride. American Bikes, German Bikes, Japanese Bikes whatever. I'm not knocking people in 1%er clubs, or social, or family Harley Clubs. For me it's just to boring when everyone rides that same thing, wears the same thing, has the same rules, and goes to the same places etc. I think Harley might be trying to expand who rides their bikes. Because in the end, it's a business that has to make money. Compared to what Harley produced back in the AMF Days, I don't think Harley is doing to bad. IMHO
I love your outlook on it, because that is 100% accurate. I love that you followed your own lane and didn’t cave into something you ultimately wouldn’t want to do. Glad you did everything for YOU and not someone else!🎯
The bad boy image would still work if the bikes cost a little bit less. It’d be different if they offered more, like power windshields on their touring bikes, rider modes on their larger bikes 2020 and up and stuff like that. Then the price would be justified. But instead of growing with the times in the features department like every other major company they just change the color choices and jack up the price each year. Hell you’d be lucky to get LED headlights on anything that’s not a special or CVO. Which is ridiculous in 2023
Except there are many of us who prefer the halogen headlights. More nostalgic and closer to vintage. Not at all a fan of the LEDs. And THAT'S why there's Vanilla and Chocolate!
I'm a 70s child and HD rider, and I have isolated myself from the majority of fellow HD riders. Too much ego fed attitude going on with everyone trying to play outlaw (until confronted by the real thing), instead of just enjoying the ride. It's the image portrayed that turns people away. No one enjoys getting harassed based on stereotype profiling.
I'm in Harley's "sweet spot" - a 61 year old motorcyclist with disposable income. I have 8 bikes in the garage, but zero Harleys. H-D makes anything you want as long as it's a V-twin cruiser, neither of which I want. My dollars have gone to Triumph, Honda and BMW.
I have owned a few Harley and I still have an 883 iron. The first problem Harley went corporate they kind of forgot the friendship thing and it was more about sales the second they dropped the Dyna line and then the sportster evolution line the two biggest sellers. The next is they continue to push for model upgrades and some how forget about expenses and the struggling economy.
I think the article is spot on, new buyers don't resonate with the culture and the price point makes it unapproachable. The problem with marketing to the age group that can afford it is they are marketing to buyers that were already sold on Harleys 30 years ago, and can now afford them. When they age out of bikes, and my generation can afford a brand new, fully loaded HD, we still won't want them. Bottom line: They gotta do something about the price.
Read the comments. These dudes are all about acting like kids and hanging out with thier gang. I can appreciate that fun, but I have a job and a family. Not sure how FTW and having a normal life work together. No disrespect for all you guys with middle fingers and skeletons on everything.... but I couldn't maintain my occupation with that image. I didn't get to a place in this world by acting like a "rebel" and tossing middle fingers at people. In fact, the reason I can easily afford an HD is because of my occupation. Not trying to be rude, but the image, the price, and this EXPECTED culture have pushed so so so many away from HD. But... its probably why so many mortgage thier trailers to finance one.
I've been riding 57 yrs. My first fast bikes were Kawasaki H1 and H2s. I now ride a '99 Magna, mint with 33k. I think the guy at the end of your piece said it all with the middle finger. It's the culture. Does he want to fight? Is he angry? I stopped a couple years ago to help a guy on a Harley. I was on a 650 Suzuki, and he was genuinely surprised that I stopped. It's the culture. Good video.
I’m in my 50’s now and all my life Ive always loved Harley Davidson, never rode a bike, but they have always been an interest of mine before I turned 10, as a supporter I’m so proud to see the company still going
@@johnengland8619I have never learned to ride a bike either but i love Harleys haha! There is something with harleys and the culture around them that I really appreciate. I just wish I had the chance to learn how to ride motorcycles. But I’m still in my 30s, so I can still maybe learn.
@@johnengland8619 why is it hilarious? some people love horses but have never been on one... some people love art but don't know how to paint... some love music but can't play a chord. Just because they've never learned or been taken in hand and taught how to ride a motorcycle doesn't mean they can't appreciate the styling, sound, and longevity of the company.
@@RyuJPage you absolutely can learn. I messed around a couple years on dirt bikes/enduros in my early teens but got into cars and trucks. I just decided to take a MSF course last year and get my motorcycle license at age 49. Passed it with no problem, bought a 10 yr old Yamaha cruiser a week later to get my feet wet in real-road riding... no issues after a couple of months with that, went on some group rides with friends who all ride harleys... ended up buying my first HD a couple of weeks ago. It's never too late, you just have to decide to do it and once you commit you stick to it.
As a Harley owner, my next bike will probably be a Honda. I like my bike, but the cost of a new one makes me cringe. They need to build some cheaper “fun” or the market share will continue to decline. It’s only a matter of time before the Chinese clones are as good or better. Most people will settle for “good enough” and “cheap”. A bike shouldn’t cost as much as a nice car or truck.
The biggest problems with Harley is the price of their bikes, performance and quality. I have had many new bikes over the years and currently own a 2019 Fat Boy 114 and 2018 VMax. Of all my bikes, only the Harley’s gave me problems. This will be my last Harley for sure.
These young millennials do think like this. My oldest son is 28 and loves HD bikes but can only afford used my youngest son is 23 and thinks like the kid who wrote the article and he rides metric bikes
I grew up riding my dad’s Harley baggers. He got a new one every two years. I’m 26 now and ride a 200cc China scooter. It’s extremely quiet, gets 110mpg and I love it.
Replacing tires on a 2021 Electra Glide, front $264, rear $369, total with labor, $950. 3 hole oil change. $178. Selling this and my Super Glide, I'm out. 😅
millennial here, born in 85 raised in the 90s. My father was a biker at a young age, he got an 88 low rider when I was little, and he totaled it 3 months later. Mom didnt allow another bike until 03 100 anniversary came out and he pre-ordered his new super glide. I got that super glide in my garage. its now 20 years old with just under 70k miles. My wife and I enjoyed it but wanted to upgrade to a road glide ultra. Only thing I can barely afford was a 2010 or so around $12k with over 30k miles. So I opted for a 2018 Kawasaki Voyager with only 6K miles for about $12k. Does everything a big Harley does for 1/3 the price. Only thing is I had to upgrade to a Bluetooth adapter for it for under 200 dollars. Already had exhaust and sounds damn good. I'd love a Harley, my dad has a 2019 limited ultra and rides the piss out of it. But he's retired and can afford a 35k dollar motorcycle. I most likely never will. I started on 1100 yamaha virago when i was 18. But the only reason I can afford my super glide was because it was free. I don't under stand why Harley refuses to cater to a younger crowed with more affordable cruisers is beyond me. They only need one or two models and keep them simple but I guess that just wont fly over at HD.
My favorite ride is a customized Harley. However, many non-Harley riders consider us as part of a cult that they do not particulate fancy. The bad boy image is not universally acclaimed. When working as customer service director at a well-known Swedish car manufacturer a neighbor exclaimed " You drive a Harley, but they are criminals". I need to add that she was American. Our club garage got BMW's, Kawasaki, Triumph, Honda, Indian, Moto-Guzzi and a bunch of Harleys. We love bikes and riding; Harley is one of many options.
I guess I'm just too financially frugal and can't see myself spending that kind of money 😉 I can enjoy same kind of riding experience on something cheaper...and I rarely ride with others
I’m a millennial, wealthy and have 5 motorcycles. It’s not about the bikes being cheap. It’s about them being overpriced and having an emphasis on sun culture that’s obsolete in todays world. Why would I suffer on a Harley, when I can ride a Yamaha that won’t breakdown. Is reasonable to maintain and I don’t have to get looked at like I’m some poser boomer that owns a bike that’s more of a monument to his wealth than about actual riding. Than and I don’t want to hang out at a bar with a bunch of similar people then ride to the next bar and then the next bar. Trying to look hard. That’s what my grand father did. Not what my generation wants or is impressed by. Harley is outdated and overpriced. They simply aren’t cool.
I work at a hotel .. and most of the HD guys that stay at the hotel every year , are older pot belly , loud drinking guys , with cut of sleeves ... I call them weekend warriors want to be HD riders .. Big difference in older HD guys that sunk every last dime into their bikes .. Some one posted below , saying " PRICE , PRICE , PRICE .. Yep .. That's the real reason to why the youth dont want then is the cost .. The name alone carries a high price tag for something that stops running after year or so .. This generations ball park cost is , LOWER PRICES .. A bike to them is not what they want to drive to work , or use when having a small family .. Even have a church group that comes in that show up on HARLEY'S .. But most of them are family men , that dont ride daily .. The youth dont want to even try working on the most simple broken thing on a Harley .. mechanics today , are expensive .. I'm 62 , and I myself quit working on my bikes and trucks .. If my Truck is down , and needs work , Its going to a shop to be worked on , my bike is the last thing I sink money into .. Just how people drive today .. scares most people out of buying a bike .. Way to much road rage .. The list goes on ,and on , to why HD is sinking fast .. I'm seeing more and more woman driving bikes today .. a change from the older generation is taking place .. Out with the old , in with the new ... As prices on everything are here to stay ,..
I'm impressed by Harley Davidson's clever but simple marketing. Since its inception, Harley Davidson has marketed an image that targets the insecurities and vulnerabilities of some men by presenting a product that gives those men the illusion of personal power, ruggedness, strength, toughness, coolness, masculinity, virility, and rebellion. These are primal traits that some men want more of, and Harley Davidson knows how to provide illusions that convince those men to buy Harley Davidson products. Loud pipes, black leather, chains, "interesting" costumes and accessories, tattoos, boots, beards, and beer don't embody greater power, but they give some men the hallucination of it. The more insecure and needy the man, the more attracted he will be to the image. You will read what real power is later in this post. Harley riders are rolling advertisements to the men whom Harley Davidson marketers want to target, and those marketers have engineered this brilliantly, as explained below. Some Harley riders might believe that the riders, themselves, created the lifestyle, the attitude, and the identity that make up the image, but the image was actually engineered by Harley Davidson, the company that sells the products and that engineered the seed for all of the aftermarket ideas and mods. Want someone to fall for an idea? Then make them think they came up with the idea themselves. Any sense of individuality or rebellion that Harley riders have is actually conformance to Harley Davidson's long-term marketing plan. Harley Davidson has put its customers exactly where they want them. What about men who use products that are not sold by Harley Davidson, like Indian or aftermarket suppliers? Sorry. The image, identity, and lifestyle were still engineered by Harley Davidson's marketers. A man who is represented by who he truly is rather than by an illusion or image of himself is a powerful man, because an illusion or image is not only artificial, it's weak. A powerful man is independent of props, façades, and groups. Some men are attracted to an image to the level that the image becomes a significant part of his identity, and some men lose the ability to clearly distinguish between the image and himself. This is what Harley Davidson counts on. And because the image has become his identity, abandoning the image becomes a kind of death for him, and there's no better way to control a man than by fear of death (and by not letting him realize that you're controlling him). The degree to which some men have reacted to Harley Davidson's recent proposed actions and decisions reveals the degree to which these men have felt threatened, yet these men don't realize the real reason why they feel threatened. Riders' reactions to Harley products and the engineered image are what Harley Davidson wants to know, because the marketing team plays off of those reactions to adapt their marketing strategy. "Go Woke, Go Broke?" Remember, Harley Davidson isn't a person, even though the business might have been named after real people. It's a company, and executives at Harley won't be harmed if they are fired or resign or if Harley goes broke. Not only have they already banked their salaries and bonuses, they'll just move to another company. Their success (yes, success) with Harley will still stand in their favor. When a company goes broke or executives leave, it doesn't mean the executives lose their shirts. When a single person, a board of directors, or other C-suite executives at a company can provoke such a dramatic response from thousands of customers via a decision, action, or other flick of a pen, that's not only success, that's power. When they can cause an uproar without breaking a sweat, that's power. Whom do they have power over? The followers. Genuine strength, power, and identity aren't traits of followers. Genuine strength, power, and identity stand independently on their own and don't need to be displayed for validation. As for freedom, followers aren't free, they're bound. Have you figured out yet who is really being played here, guys? I tell ya, Harley Davidson's marketing tactics are absolutely brilliant. And proven effective.
as a millennial who recently bought a bike. i think the author is right - my generation does not idolize beer drinkin, cigarrete smokin, brand loyalty, and bikes that obnoxious for the sake of being obnoxious. when i see a Harley rider i usually think to myself "he is probably already drunk". i cant see myself on an HD, but maybe someday!
You nailed man, Harley must concentrate on 1 particular type of demographic and that's the 40-60 age range and stop trying to be all things to all people. This "bring'em all in" guise has steadily gone backwards for years. For Harley to stop the bleeding they just need to go back to basics and be the best bike for the man and woman and there mid life crises, pardon the pun ! Those that can afford the new Harleys and want to ride cruising style, that's it. After that one can choose whatever lifestyle they want👍
Have you even rode a new harley.? Nobody riding anything 2019 and up is complaining. You keep trying to blame someone else for harley tanking. It was taking cause the bikes suck. All they have is esthetics.. they were giant mini bikes. The stunt scene and younger rider are what's bin carrying harley for the last 5 years easy. The stunt scene channels are destroying one's like this as far as viewership. As are the aftermarket parts suppliers. He'll the baggers racing league is probably the best thing that could of happened to bring harley back to its real roots..RACING.. not road sofas. You use cost as a excuse why they Are not liked. Every manufacture with bikes in the same tear cost just as much. With cvo as a exception. But people compare a lowrider st to a low buck jap cruiser. To justifie it! Rather than a sofyail standard. He's right about culter but that's the entire country right now not just harley. Loo at the cars young people will live in a card board box to drive.. it has next to nothing to do with cost. The bikes didn't perform for crap. You could get something smoother or faster from another manufacturer. Plain n simple. As far as looks.. the air cooled motors and classic looks are leaving because of emmisions #1 reason. I'm 38 I've bin riding on the st since 20. Dirtbikes since I was 7. Harley is collapsing cause they arnt delivering and have not for some time. They costed on thier name heritage and fit n finish..now Information supporting it is readily available at your fingertips.
@@dormantmenace Your trying to preach to converted man. I been riding just about every make and model of bike there is since l was 3 years old, my old man owned Harleys before fashion was even integrated into the brand and l have owned Harleys for over 50 years, my dad gave me my first shovel to build when l was 10, before you were even born. I and the creator of this POD can see where HD have gone wrong hence the reason l agree with the mans opinion. This is not about picking on Harley because it's all for shits and giggles. Points are being called out on Harley Davidson's direction both Corporate and Manfacturing... Valid points ! So you stick with your opinion cos if it makes you feel good then goodluck with it. I been around long enough with my old man who to see Harley bought sold and bought again and when the corporates at Harley start getting nervous of late then it's time to slap these bitches back into some type of normality again, cos shit just ain't right at present with HD and it's showing and no amount of jerk jumping and bagger racing is going to convince me otherwise. And l dont mean to offend but that's exactly how l see it !!
@@carlbruhn1772 It's criminal that HD lnc. are not looking after these privately owned Harley outlets as we all watch the company slide into just another maker and it's all of there own making. Someone has to grab the bull by the horns and rip these virtue signalling idiots at HD head quarters a new one. Shit ain't right and if they continue down this path it will end painfully.
I love all bikes! I own 2 Indians, scout and Springfield. I’ll never own an HD just because the way I was treated at their dealership. Went straight to the closest Indian dealer was treated with respect, left with a bike that day. The HD dealer acted like I couldn’t afford their bikes until I pulled out 15k cash . Ohhhh then they couldn’t get themselves off of me . That day I decided I’d NEVER be apart of the HD family. Indian won me over and I’ll continue buying bikes from the brand.
I'm 35. Own two Harleys and will be picking up a third. Always makes me laugh reading comments on videos like this. "Why won't these young whipper snappers conform! Always wanting to change things or do it their way!"
Millennial here. I'm 37 years old and have always loved Harley Davidsons. I grew up around them and my father still has his 1939 flat head. I own a 2001 Harley and will be keeping it for many more years. The reason is because between my mortgage kids and other bills I have no way to afford a 20k+ motorcycle. Not that I wouldn't love a new Harley Davidson. I don't think it's stereotypes or image that are pushing away the younger motorcycle riders. I think it's the price point. Harley's cheapest bike is 14k before all the fees. Other manufacturers are cheaper and faster. I do not care about speed but I do care about price. I have a friend at work that really likes the new nightstar but he said not enough to pay over 14k. When honda and Kawasaki offers bikes with similar performance for half that. They need to seriously lower their prices.
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Honda’s slogan was, “ You meet the nicest people on a Honda.” HD’s biggest mistake was going public. The small, locally owned shops were run out of business. Instead the “resort dealer” took over. Priority was given to the shareholders, not customers. Tee shirts are more profitable than actual motorcycles.
Correct..
Pitiful, that today, the higher cost of the bikes are not to improve the brand.. The cost is to support the payments to the new CEO'S dead set on bringing Harley down.
Same type being paid to destroy anything American..
@@jimmywall7325 Your last sentence, Same type(global criminal schmuck banksters) being payed/paying to destroy anything American(or whoever else they please). It's their MO !!! All gubberments are just fake fronts, all under their criminal control.
@@jimmywall7325 In America, there is this perception that CEOs/CFOs are like invaluable gods. Commoners trip all over themselves to give them the keys to the kingdom, pay them exorbitantly and elect them president. The Boomers and Gen Xers are all hyped up on Ayn Rand garbage and believe that anyone associated with b'ness is some kind of underappreciated savior of society.
I go from Harley Davidson to Honda after 28 years. I have not looked back since 😊
I currently own a 2014 FLHTK and I know I paid to much for it in 2014! But you are telling the truth sir and this is not my first Harley. I will be purchasing elsewhere in the future!!!
Generation X'er here. Like you mentioned, I started on sport bikes but eventually moved to Victory and then a Harley (used). I love my Harley, but I just can't justify spending 30, 40 or 50K+ for a new one that still needs more thousands for "upgrades" to lighting, suspension and engine performance. Just my opinion.
Nailed it! A 30k bike that needs shocks because the stock shocks are bricks is a crock of sh*t. I own two Harleys, a '06 springer and a 2019 RG. I will not be buying another one.
That's why you get a BMW motorcycle.
I agree my family were all 1% and only rode Harleys and now a days it blows their minds how much they sell and honestly the HD bikes are not that great built to be honest not for 30k. Dudes that can afford brand new Harleys I see never ride them which is wild to me. I have a yahama bolt cause I can afford the street glide. Brand new with taxes it was a little over 8 grand and it's ready to rock when HD I need to make it stage 2-4 to get to most companies these days. When I can afford a bike I'll go with a Indian challenger.
ABSOLUTELY! I agree 100%. Owning two Harleys. Started out on a used Sportster as my 1st bikeand enjoying the hell out of it for 4 yrs until I could afford to upgrade to a big twin Softail. Which I did enjoy as well, however my biggest mistake was purchasing in brand new. High interest loan, expensive maintenance, overpriced maintenance items and parts, overpriced "upgrades", premium bike with less than premium performance. Why does H-D continue to put the shittiest brakes and suspension on one of the heaviest bikes out there on the road that doesn't really handle or corner that well either? H-D has had plenty of time and opportunity to improve, innovate and develop better , modernized bikes but is always decades behind everyone else selling the same antique bikes that hasn't changed much in decades. Yet expect customers to buy them for 2 or 4 times more than something from their competitors that offer something modern and up to date in performance, technology, reliable, and lower cost of ownership for significantly less rather than sell you an image and gouge you later. Indian is actually doing it right for an upcoming brand appealing to the American market both younger and older riders and offering a product that is priced accordingly and speaks for itself. Yes is price point is kinda up there with H-D yes but you get ALOT more for the money. The Japanese brands are really hard to beat nowadays and will last for ages and are the most reasonably priced and you get performing bikes and the latest hardware for the money. Just my $0.02. I'll always love H-D in my heart but they just need to get with it and make bigger necessary changes all across the board.
What was the reasoning behind the downgrade from a Vic to an HD?
As a millennial, you nailed it on the cheaper transportation. At 24 I got a $6k Suzuki for a commuter. Then at 32, a couple years ago, got a small Kawasaki sport bike for $6k. Perfect bikes that are super reliable and cheap to maintain. Why ever in the world would I pay for a Harley, when I could get a new Japanese bike for a quarter of the price? All that matters to me is being on the road and not being broke, true freedom.
I can see that side too. Forsure!💯
"You meet the nicest people on a Honda" was their slogan.
sounds like that was a direct taunt towards Harley.
@@debasishraychawdhuri it was.
@@debasishraychawdhuri I think Honda realized that there was an image problem with motorcycling in the American market. This bad-boy image was strongly popularized by Hollywood. Don't forget, Hondas were first introduced as small motorcycles, hardly out of the scooter class. Harley-Davidson was not their competition, but the bad-boy image certainly was.
And they sold 110 million of one model
@@gromitdaddy Was it just that model, or that family? Cause there were multiple different Cubs, and also the Trail/Hunter Cubs. Hell, if they could keep those new Trail 125s in stock, I'd be adding on to that number, haha.
As a 46 yr old (Not a RUB) but old enough to be able to afford nicer stuff. I did my research, knew not to start on too big a bike. Really liked the street 750's as a starter bike. Literally got laughed at by the Harley dealership and pushed to a bigger bike that definitely would have been out of my skill level. Until the culture changes on bikes like that and the sportster being womens bikes, a lot of future customers will just go else where. I ended up with a Honda Shadow Phantom 750 as my first bike and never regretted that decision. Looking to upgrade to bigger bike soon and still have a bad taste in my mouth, so I have been looking at Indians a lot lately, especially with the HD service horror stories I have been hearing lately.
sorry to tell you but a sportster is not a womans bike...it is for anyone that wants to ride a bike with less weight and size.....there is no such thing as a bike just for women.....it is matter of personal preference...you should have bought the street 750 or a sportster...you didnt have to prove anything to those idiots at the hd dealer....they were just wanting you to spend more money
Hopefully your experience at one Harley dealership will not ruin the experience. Not all dealerships are created equally nor does a single employee at a dealership represent the overall atmosphere of said dealer. Unfortunately there are bad apples in some of the best dealerships. I hope you shared your experience and thoughts with someone at the dealership who should care about your experience. If someone at the management level doesn’t give a rip then shop somewhere else.
Hopefully your experience at one Harley dealership will not ruin the experience. Not all dealerships are created equally nor does a single employee at a dealership represent the overall atmosphere of said dealer. Unfortunately there are bad apples in some of the best dealerships. I hope you shared your experience and thoughts with someone at the dealership who should care about your experience. If someone at the management level doesn’t give a rip then shop somewhere else.
That internal gatekeeping is definitely one of their biggest problems. They should be happy that you were going to give them your money.
First bike was a kick-start shovel. Never even owned a sportster but I'll tell you the sportster was never intended to be a beginners bike nor a woman's bike.
I feel H-D is about conforming- same bike, same clothes , same bars, same rides. Riding with others makes me crazy. I just want to go out alone and enjoy the ride
H_D is what you make it. I love mine and I ride alone!
Just get a Kawasucki, Soosucki, Hounda, or a Yamadog and no one will want to ride with you. That's what I found out the old-school HD heads call Jap bikes. That and Jap junk. They absolutely hate me. I'm the worst. I have a US made Goldwing. I'm a pariah.
Real friends who love to ride are never a bother. I don't tell them what to ride or what to wear. The image seekers? Tik-tok is waiting for you... sell your ride and good luck.
I enjoy my harley year around. Even if it is down to zero degrees Fahrenheit. As long as there isn’t ice on the road
HD is the most customizable brand in the market. 😂 Yep you can be a clone or be yourself. No matter what you ride.. ❤️.
In Europe I can tell you that the prime reason for not buying an Harley is the price, price and price. Taste, culture, comes last
Pretty much the same in the USA now. I can find less expensive hobbies and or lifestyles.
When I can buy a slightly used Ducati 797+ Monster for less than 7000€ why would I buy another Sportster?
Price. 100% for the price of a harley I can get a bike like a ducati or bmw that are more powerful, sometimes just as comfortable, still cool as fuck, and have more to them (cruise control, heated grips other tech). Fuck I've wanted a breakout or fxdr for so long but for the price I need a bike that will do everything I want (travel and fun) so I lean towards the naked and sport touring bikes sadly
Almost the same everywhere....I like HD..but I have Japanese bike instead because of the price...
I live in the UK and "the culture" here is more cafe racers than anything. Harleys are cool, but mostly loud and obnoxious machines that are for posers that want to act tuff in packs because by themselves they are mostly the exact snowflakes that they claim others to be, especially when you say "mean things" about their favourite motorcycle brand. In fact, some people base their whole personality out of having a Harley.
He has a point. Even someone born in 54 with 50+ years riding on over 60 bikes (5 HDs) can think that Southpark pretty well nailed it.
South Park did nail it. I like Harleys but let's not pretend that they're not a product of a bygone era. That's why it's a "premium brand" now. It's made for 50+ year old people that have their houses paid for and the kids out of the house and that's ok, but even me with more than enough money to buy one, would only buy it as a 4th of 5th bike and even then I would go for an old shovelhead or something. Right now it's BMW GSA all the way. Not necessarily more affordable but something I can across the planet, as proven by Obi-Wan Kenobi himself and a segment that even H-D is trying (and failing miserably) to dip in.
That was classic 😂
Their riders literally do this at bars near me. Rev engines, Chris Stapleton blaring, obnoxious when they walk in. One bar by me banned cycle clubs. Too much fighting, and running women off.
The image and culture is changing. Less Skulls. Less Flames. Less Flaming Skulls. Less Land Pirate Costumes. Less Willie G
Yeah all that. Ss the younger kids say these days, those things are so cringy.
I always wished that Willie G had majored in engineering instead of art or whatever.
I’m kind of disappointed that after buying my M8 that BRAND NEW it has a sumping issue and lubricant transfer from the transmission to the primary. Trask and others have solutions buy they aren’t cheap. You shouldn’t have to fix a brand new, expensive machine. Nobody else could get away with this nonsense. The Asians have made some cool bikes like the Warrior, the Valkarie, and the Honda 1800 but they just CANCEL them and leave the owners out to dry. HDs have problems but at least they are consistent.
@@johnscott5662Triumph Ducati BMW and Indian are all less reliable than Harley😂
I am 80 years old, Ive been riding for 65 years. Harleys are TOO damn heavy, too expensive to maintain, and I don't give a damn if they go broke.
Yeah. I’m 72 and riding 56 years, so I think we can hold down that long gray end of the market survey. Maybe I can’t afford (and don’t want) a new Bugatti Chiron, but can get whatever I want motorcycle-wise. I have never had a Harley, essentially none of my rider friends ride them either. Never did. It is a culture and a dealership experience that I do not get. I tried a few times over the evo and post evo years, an inexplicable itch for one arose a couple of times. Then I showed up and looked to get one at a dealership and boom it was over quickly. Don’t need that. There are other companies to buy perfectly wonderful motorcycles from. I would like it better if H-D could get re-centered and stay on the rails - just make rideable, comfortable, reliable, ownable, economical, fun, classy motorcycles. You know, motorcycles for people to use and love using. But if they can’t sort it out, the world will indeed just move on. If it happens that they cannot sort out something as obviously survival-oriented as not doing things that alienate the people they want to sell things to, I agree with you, no tears. This is not a generational issue in my opinion. I mean, a few years ago my good older friend got a bad diagnosis, rode to the Yukon from Santa Fe and back. Went to chemo. Recovered a bit and went to Wyoming or something for an optimized eclipse. Multiple trips up into Colorado and Idaho. Then, after the last one, he rode home and died a couple of months later. He was a rider. Total gearhead too. A real bike guy, smart and accomplished with a regular job and career. He never had an H-D for almost exactly what I said, lousy experiences, other options, and it had nothing to do with this simple minded BS about birth year.
I grew up on dirt bikes and I rode Harley Davidson and the real reason I stopped buying Harley is the dealerships these days. I walked into a dealership and you have to literally throw money in there faces to evenget them to talk to me and it makes me sick.
@@dustyw thanks I'll check it out
I’m 44 and have moved away from the crotch rockets to the cruisers. I do believe that the Harley dealers should move to more affordable bikes. I went with the India scout. Looks good and plenty of power👍
Nice choice
Harley handles better, I have ridden both and slow speed riding and manuevering hands down harley is way better.
@@fabfrenchies1974 The Scout handles just fine. Why you had such a difficult time riding and maneuvering a Scout is questionable.
@@fabfrenchies1974 I don't hear too many people saying Harley's handle well.
Indian is far superior than HD. Ive got a roadmaster
For me here's what it comes down to, I'm a blue collar guy in my 40's living in NY. HD is just to expensive for me to buy new. I have always had to buy second hand and even then there pricey at times. So I ride around on my carbureted HD's piecing them together to keep them running just to have one. It's a love hate relationship but financially it's all I have to work with.
Move out of NY and enjoy your freedoms again.
You owe no apology for that. That is what it came from, exactly what you are doing. I built them from crash restorations and pieced them together from random crap for years. It is a labor of love, Brother. There’s really nothing else like a Harley and when I rip up into a crowd all it’s about is the respect. And my built bikes garner as many oohs and ahhh as anything else there. It’s a love thing and if I find myself where that’s not so I can count on my scoots to get me somewhere else.
"living in NY" well, there's your problem.
Divorce yourself from this love/hate relationship. Get with a younger, hotter, faster firecracker. Maybe of Asian, Italian, or British descent. You deserve it. And the great thing is you can afford it too
@@jimdavidson7771 until any of those countries start actually focusing on the cruiser market they aren’t an option, imo. They make sport bikes with the occasional cruiser as an afterthought.
I'm torn. I bought a pretty sweet used harley at around age 22 and I'm 25 now, so over the last 3 years I have had a blast riding it, but here's the dilemma:
Before owning a harley, I would walk around town and absolutely hate the intermittent disruption of a crazy loud exhaust. I would sit at a cafe and we'd have to stop the conversation for a solid minute until a harley was out of earshot. Then I try one myself and it's truly a fun thing, but I feel like a dickhead riding by homes or nice streets in town where I know i'm waking people up or ruining conversations, making babies cry, etc.
Then there's all the cultural reasons this guy mentions above.
Pile on top of that the all-in cost of a harley- loans, insurance, fuel, parts and labor, registration, etc. It's just as much of a financial curse as a car, except it cannot carry as many people or items as a car, AND you need good weather.
Understand this. Every generation since the baby boomers has less wealth and more debt. I was born in 97. Simply owning a reasonable car might be out of the question for people like me and definitely the next generations. I'd be lucky to own a home, let alone recreational vehicles. It's no wonder why the younger market simply cannot justify the purchase, considering skyrocketing prices and all the risks involved in motorcycles in general.
Riding a harley around is a truly thrilling, fun and novel experience. But it's just one of THOUSANDS of novel ways to travel. Considering how many other desirable, fun, and most importantly cheap and free options there are for commuters, buying a harley is not on my bucket list. Selling one is, though. If anyone is interested in a 2008 CVO hit me up lol. I'd like to save for a down payment on a home and be a bit more responsible with money.
Pardon me but did you lose a testicle?
From what I have seen and heard, a lot of younger people don't even want to get their licenses. Much less any kind of transportation except for 50 cc scooters. No licenses, no registration, and no insurance.
If thier phones don't have a motorcycle app. Thier fucked.
But I don't see now scooters cruising the country there mostly in the cities and around colleges. I'll stay with Harleys but there ain't no way I can afford new anymore, I figure those prices are for corporate people or people that has higher income careers. To me I like the old school bikes better and they don't look like there plastic. But I do see Harley and Indian losing there butts because of there prices. Young people for the price of a Harley would rather get a sports car than a 2 wheeler with just a 2 year warranty and reliability. Harley parts are like buying John Deere parts, I have to buy both lol. I like my v- twins and my evo's don't care to go newer
I agree with your assessment. I ride a Harley and my grandsons first two bikes were a Honda. He likes the style and cost of the 700-900 cc Japanese bikes because he can’t afford a $13,000 every level Harley. 🤷♂️
NC requires basic insurance for a 50cc scoot.
@@HoboHiney it should be required everywhere as long as it has a motor on it. They are going to pass it here in Louisiana, tired of them parking next to my bike and they fall over into mine or someone's else's
The saying you quoted re Honda is actually, "You meet the nicest people on a Honda". It was a marketing slogan that Honda used in the early 1960's when they first brought their motorcycles to America.
The kid is 100% right. I’ve been riding since I was a kid myself and now Harleys for the last 20 years. I love the bike but the culture rubs me totally the wrong way. It’s like some Harley riders are trying their best to look like hoodlums and outlaws. Sure, there are died in the wool thugs and very dangerous people that ride harleys, but come on people. MOST Harley riders these days are professionals and above-average earners in our day jobs. Stop with the ‘look at me I am tough’ mentality and just enjoy the bikes and the rides. The whole ‘we are dirty BIKERS and slobs that’ll kick your ass’ demeanor really doesn’t fly any more.
Amen
Well said!
What gives you the right to judge anyone? Don't like the look, don't like the culture then ride a BMW. The "culture" is as old as the motorcycle company itself. I've been riding for thirty years, and I've always found Harley riders to be good people. Just because someone wears leather and jeans doesn't mean they are trying to be as you put it "hoodlums". To each his or her own. Different flavors for different people. Above average earners? Are you kidding me? Most Harley riders are blue collared hard-working Americans who love American built motorcycles. The high earner, professionals as you put it only make up a small percentage of Harley riders. So, if your offended by people's appearance than that's on you not the guy you're judging.
I’m ok with the traditional bike culture. Millennials and gen z are just soft.
Well said, I think in my opinion it's a emphasis on stepping away from societal norms. Portraying the ideology that I do not follow the suit and tie lifestyle.
A lot of riders will find an older Harley with reasonable miles on it, something they can afford. There are plenty of good ones out there.
There are plenty of good deals on garage queens out there. People who bought them as status symbols and forget they were actually meant to be ridden.
@Joe Posato that's like 90 percent of HD owners lol
@@joeposato6662 or like me. Always wanted one and by the time I could afford one I was trucking otr and the last thing I want to do when I finally make it home is ride around. Bikes were always more of a quick trip over to see friends but the older I get the less I care to see anybody and if I go anywhere it's to pick up something that won't fit on a bike lol
My dad passed away a few tears ago, and he loved riding. He always had a few different bikes on hand. One or two Harleys and one metric cruiser for fun to mess around on. But he loved his Harleys, and we always talked about going for rides when I get my first bike. I really want to get a Harley sportster because it's the best option for beginners in th HD line up, but I can't afford it. You shouldn't have to pay 15k or more for something in the beginners' price point. I'd buy used but don't know enough about bikes to trust myself to know what to look for, and I don't want to be scammed. So it just kind of sucks because I knew how much he loved his Harleys, and I never got to ride with him. So i sit here now trying to remember my dad and have his spirit, but I can't because of the price point for HD beginner bikes.
I don't know, I'm a boomer and just purchased my first Harley. I always saw them as broken down, leaking oil, ruff riding and loud. Then early this year a friend had purchased a new Street Glide and he talked me into riding it. I really didn't want anything to do with it and why would I. I had a Yamaha FJR1300 and a BMW RT1200. In short, after riding his Street Glide, a few months later I purchased my own. I have to say I feel in love with that bike. I think Harley's problem is that they are pricing the bikes right out of the market and blaming everybody and thing except themself's. Super inflated pricing with quick and easy financing is no longer desirable for this generation. Just my 2 cents.
I'm a millennial (1987) I ride a Harley but I also own a Suzuki and Kawasaki. Started on sport bikes. After a bad wreck I made the transition over to cruisers. Started with a used sporty then a Yamaha midnight star. I'm still kicking myself for selling the Yamaha to HD to get an Electra glide. Wish I just bought the HD and kept the Yamaha. Now I'm on an 11 ultra limited. I considered buying the new Road Glide ST and they wanted 15k down and over $800 a month! THATS MORE THAN I PAY FOR A MERCEDES! There's no way I'll ever buy another new HD. HD makes a good bike but not great. Know who else makes a good bike? EVERY MAJOR MANUFACTURER. And I can pick up a BMW at this point cheaper than a Harley. The other brands have more bang for your buck. HD is shooting itself in the foot on a regular. My buddy just dropped $41k on a 131 Harley. Meanwhile I got home yesterday from buying a 2016 Kawasaki with 5800 miles for $4500. Reliability and price point are a huge factor. And by no means am I poor and can't afford a Harley. I'm just not about to waste money simply for a logo.
The young generation doesn't even want to leave the house. So no need for a motorcycle.
Been riding all my boomer life. I can tell you that I never felt like joining the Harley cult because they were the only riders that would rarely wave back. Love the bikes…hate the attitude.
I never wave, too busy paying attention to the road
@@comment_deleted fair enough! Priorities after all.
Don't ride a lot but always had a Harley in the shed. I always wave when I'm out on it.
@@rescue270 trust me…you’re the exception! Cheers
@@petedoug
I don't know...
...around Central Texas it's really rare for riders not to give the wave no matter what they're riding or to whom they're waving. Pretty friendly here. I've had to keep my hand and fingers out for sometimes scores of other Harley riders passing the other way, every one of them waving. Some of their passengers waving, too. Even the Bandidos wave but don't approach them at a stop unless they invite you over.
Only times I haven't gotten a wave was if the other guy had his hands full at the moment or didn't see me.
To be honest, Harley isn't the only ones who are having a problem with this generation who wrote this letter, they say we're ruffians but they all need a safe space to retreat to when their feelings get hurt so who's really got the problem here😥
Yeah, I think they're too scared to ride a bike
@@ProdigalSuns many are indeed...
Good point. Some people will never become men.
I'm part of the younger generation. I ride a motorcycle but Harley is overpriced for what they offer. My interaction with Harley riders is typically in the range of "it's not a real bike unless it's a Harley". They are always the ones with the loudest most obvious pipes on the roads as well. The whole idea of safe spaces is dumb so I 100% agree with you there. 👍
@@quinnhemmert3035 so your not man enough to stand up for what you ride? It don't make a hill of beans what you ride just Harley riders always say "It's Not a Harley" just to see where your at. You obviously can't take it so you run. Most Harley riders could care less what you ride oy your riding. Can you keep up. In a long distance ride are your butt cheeks sore or you still by my side? Tiffin up cuocake!
I agree with what you said about Harley pricing themselves out of sales. If they had more options in just the $10k price range they would sell a boat load of them.
I agree with you. If they offered a reliable sub 1200CC bike for ~10k I would want a look. So far I'm looking at Honda Yamaha Suzuki.
@@oplefirem build your bike use a 88 S&S motor. I did years ago youll never regret it
Man, I don't even know if that's enough. Honda has those little 110cc Navis nowadays for under 2k (before fees anyways). They know how to get people on a bike.
I don't get why the v-twin bikes aren't selling new for around 10k. It's an air cooled bike that burns your legs. You can't tell me the extra highway bars and saddlebags cost thousands $$$ more than the missing radiator and fan. And you don't need all of the ABS and traction control. LOL, cruise control, wtf? Blinkers that auto turn off? Man, I just want a clunky, rumbling mess to cruise around in. If I wanted fancy I'd get a BMW or something.
You have to ride what is right for you. Not every biker is going to ride a Harley, not every biker wants to ride a Harley, and that is okay. Personally I love the Kawasaki Vulcans. Always have and always will. I've ridden bikes from every major brand and have found, for me, nothing compares to the feel of the Vulcans. Besides if you think about it whether you ride an HD or a Metric bike it's all the same wind.
Totally agree. First street bike, 454 LTD, then ZL 1000, then Meanstreak, then 25 years of Harley
Totally agree with you, I like HD's but I love my Kawasaki Vulcan nomad, plenty of power and looks just as good as any stock Harley.
I love the Vulcan. I had a Vulcan 900. It was so light and balanced and fun to drive.
Don't you feel like an outcast? How can you go to any meet ups, shows, or Sturgis with a Jap bike? Does it ever get old having to always ride alone?
When I started riding in 1967 it was all about performance and handling. British at first, then Japanese. Then in 1969 a social upheaval occurred called Easy Rider. Few of us even understood the movie, but those bikes...the look, the sound. We had to have 'em. They weren't fast, they didn't have to be. They weren't comfortable, heck, they weren't even safe. But they were sooo cool. That's when we noticed H-D using the biker image or culture in their marketing, even though Fonda and Hopper weren't "bad bikers" . They were pushers. They were also free, in the wind, enjoying the experience without pressure. And H-D used this ideology brilliantly, IMO. But 50+ years later it's beginning to wear out. Values change. I'm 73 now, and I still ride an H-D FXDB. Again, the look, the sound, nothing comes close. It's not "fast", but it doesn't have to be. I couldn't care less about the beer, babes and bikes culture, I've never even had a beer, and I'm no tough guy biker. Just enjoy the ride.
Harley programmed you at a young age and it obviously stuck..... Sadly They prey on certain peoples mentality... they hooked you with the image stuff from Easy Rider and such...Well at least you realize the mistake you made ever buying them....most people never break free of the brain washing like tactics...Brain washing is The only way anyone would buy an over-priced underperforming product and continue buying...Should be a Law against companies doing that to people.. thankfully I never fell for their shenanigans..No Sir.. I Demand Quality Performance and Reliability. I'm a True motorcyclist enthusiast. I don't buy Sub-Par anything.
I agree 100% about loud and obnoxious! 95% of HD riders buy the loudest exhaust they can Find! I ride with some, a day next to one at 70-80 mph gets old quick...
I wish they would get even louder...
@@mlagoon7044 I bet you wish they were fast to..
Yeah because Sport bike riders replace their stock exhaust with a slip on just for "performance".......
As a "younger" rider, being 28, I found a lot about Harley I did and didn't like. Price was a serious issue. I ended up buying a 2022 iron 883. Shortly after I got the chance to work at a local dealership and I was quickly met with a lot of negatives. Most pertaining to price as any part to customize the bikes are so expensive. I grew up thinking harley was a company built with the ideology of personalization being a focal point. But at easily $100 for something rather generic I was disappointed. Then it became a lack of options. Harley had very limited options for my bike with a lot of the ones I like not being compatible. If I could go back and get a cheaper bike to have the extra money to put into it, I would in a heartbeat. Harley has had members openly admit they are now trying to image themselves as a "luxury" brand. I just don't have the love for the company I used to.
Oh hell, couldn't deal with Harley " culture 40 years ago and I'm 59! I know a lot of righteously cool Harley riders, but I could never deal with social baggage.
im a yung'un, what do you mean by social baggage, im thinking of getting one
I learned to ride on HD bikes and rode them as a police officer. The last bike I bought was a Yamaha Royal Star touring cruiser. Why? Harley's prices, business practices, and what you get for what you spend, made it an easy decision to walk away from them. That was back in 2007 when I bought the Yamaha. I absolutely love that bike and still have it. It's been on numerous road trips with me and currently has 170k on it. I'm thinking of getting a second bike to help with the mileage duties since the Yamaha is getting up there in mileage yet still reliable as the day is long and more so than any HD I've ridden. With their current status and offerings at the prices, I won't be looking at them. While I'm not a GenX kid (I'm 54) I can afford an HD but for what they want for the 2023 lineup, I refuse to get ripped off. HD doesn't seem to understand that at the prices they want you cannot attract these young folks. They are at the beginning of their careers so they don't make top dollar, may have a wife/husband and kids, and TONS have student loans. The suits at HD simply don't get it and it may well be to the detriment of the company.
I am a GenX'er. I am from a family of Harley Riders. I love both Indian and Harley due to their history in our Country. However, I was slightly turned off when Harley catered to Hollywood a while back. I love the feel of running from state to state chasing beers, whiskey, and tacos. I love runs to Yellowstone, Sturgis and Gatlinburg. And most importantly, I don't take for granted the time I get with my riding brothers when we roll out for weeks on end, tent camping and drinking around campfires as we cross the country for no more than to just say we did it. When I'm out on runs, I go from being a 47 year old to being a 16 year old again real freaking quick (along with the small circle of bro's I run with). We do stupid shit and have fun. I don't look at a watch and I don't answer the phone unless its family. If you don't have a bit of FTW in ya, you just won't understand the culture.
Indian has catered to Hollywood too.
word.
@@FranBunnyFFXII Yeah, I know, I have both. But man, sometimes they can get weird looking. I will probably add a Road King or a fat Boy in a few years if they don't change the style too much. Just love to ride.
What part of Indian's history do you like? The part where they went out of business 8 times or the part where the Indian name was passed around more than a Tijuana whore?
I think the reason HD catered to Hollywood was from a desperate attempt to appeal to broader and younger audiences. It was a business decision that didn’t seem to go anywhere. Harley is struggling to find an inroad with younger riders and is looking for a way to appeal to them. The younger generations seem to be somewhat lost themselves. As a group, they are fickle, pampered and seem to have little long-term interest in many things. I wouldn’t take it personal. Just my opinion
I think Harley has made some awesome moves in the past several years. The M8 motor in 2017 in the baggers. The new softail frame in 2018. Bringing back the Low Rider S in 2020. The Pan America. The Low Rider ST. Road Glide ST. Street Glide ST. The 122, 128, and 131 big bore kits. The new Sportster S (which I’m not personally a fan of but it is a big improvement over the old Sportster in terms of performance).
I understand the need to market your product, but it shouldn’t be done at the expense of history, heritage, and culture. Our society has become too fragmented and individualistic. One of the many things I love about Harley Davidson is the camaraderie. When you buy a Harley, you are not just buying a form of transportation, although it is that. You’re also entering into a culture and history that is bigger than yourself. Stay true Harley. There’s legions of fans out here that support you. Ride safe everybody. Rant complete.
I've always wanted an HD but chose to buy Honda because of reliability, cost, and similar styling. Reliability has gotten better , cost is still terrible , but was fortunate enough to get a '14 FLHXS on a sweet deal from a used non-HD bike dealership. Very happy with it. Rides like a charm. Doesn't leak any fluids. It took me until 38 years old to finally afford one. Point being , I totally agree with you. Cost of owning one , insuring it , and maintaining it , could easily drop $500-700 per month on someone's head. Most younger kids jumping on bikes already know this , therefore won't even step foot on HD property. Many would like to own one , but see their products as a "maybe one day" dream.
I'm Gen-X and perfectly content with Honda's reliability and price point! My Rebel 1100 for fun rides around town. If I ever want a chopper like bike, I'll get a Fury. Whenever I retire and want the couch on wheels, lol. Then there is the Goldwing.
Over 200,000 miles across 6 Harleys. 1 mechanical. Voltage regulator on 1999 FXDX, push started 150 miles to Harley shop they fixed it fast, I was traveling. I stopped for a young man broke down last month, it was a Honda.
@@carlbruhn1772 Sounds like he doesn't know how to maintain a bike, I pity him. My Honda's work fine without any issues.
H.D. is in some ways an American Porsche on two wheels. But as a middle class guy I love Harley's having owned 17 bikes over past 35 years, starting with a Honda at 18. Over Half my bikes have been non HD and I'll put it this way...a Harley is an investment not just a motorcycle. One can enjoy riding it and knowing it retains its value much better than any other brand, then pay it off and use it for collateral when purchasing a home, etc.
@@jonathanheavner7040 It was brand new a 2021 with 1100 miles. The charging system failed. Not a big deal. Point is new bikes rarely fail and all models will have them.
I'm a 68 year old USMC & US Army Veteran, I was ready to buy a new motorcycle this spring, I had $12K in savings for a down payment, I wanted a 2023 HD 750 Street, not avalible. I looked at other HD models, then in May the Bud Light Dylan Mulvaney Beer Can & Budweiser Harley-Davidson Beer Cans, bad timing for HD. I started looking @ other brands & in August I bought a new 2023 Kawasaki Vulcan 900 classic LT, for $10K cash & had $2K for upgrades.
Hollywood, remember when Harleys were beautiful. They were just right man. You could take the tank off and step back to look at the bike. It was still great looking even without a tank. You could take the seat off, same thing. Still would look gorgeous. Harley has finally completely ruined their entire line of bikes. Check it out man. Road king and sportster were the last decent looking bikes. Gone. Dyna, gone. Electra glide, gone.
I'll never give up my 2001 1200 Sportster. Beautiful bike, and it'll be even more beautiful after I slap a 90ci in it.
I’m a Boomer. I like the culture. I just don’t like the dealers trying to stave off their demise with markups. I can and have afforded everything Harley sells. Never again. No standard heel shifter? Paying $1350 dollars for blacked out bike, then noticing chrome saddlebag latches? No doubt to force you to look at them everyday or give them another $79.99 to replace them! Harley is asking their most loyal customers to bend over to keep them afloat. They don’t even lube you. No, millennials are having a difficult time purchasing a house. $30,000 toys are out of reach. Has nothing to do with ideology!
Yep, they really have ruined the brand by overpricing literally everything. It’s ridiculous💯🤦♂️
I just bought a 2014 FLSTFB with less than 5K miles on it for $11k (including a 2 yr extended warranty + wheel&tire, as well as 36 mo scheduled maint). This is my 8th bike and 5th Harley.
I could give 2 shits what millennials and lazy-assed Gen-Z's think about the price point. I've also owned several metrics in my 58 years (I'm a Gen-X, right on the cusp of leaving behind the boomer gen), and can say with confidence I'll stick with Harley. I *ALMOST* bought an Indian this time around, but I'm a Harley guy, through and through. This is my first previously owned bike (a garage queen in its previous life), and have no worries about its reliability.
Current generations just need to learn to appreciate a thing for what it is instead of constantly whining about "I don't make enough money because I haven't put in the time to increase my value in order to increase my wages" bullsh!t. Rome wasn't built in a day, junior. Put in the time, effort, blood, sweat, and tears, then reap the rewards of the value you provide to the economy and working market.
Spoiled, numb-nutted, nit-witted, twat-filters. Two years of lock-downs and government hand-outs have completely ruined any work ethic America HAD, save the Gen-X'ers, Boomers, and those who came before that are still kickin it and makin bank.
Well said ! Most millennials don't own a Harley, or even a house ! Many live with their parents, have large debt with the latest cell phone, plus a recreational drug habit.. That is why they want cheap, reliable transportation (who doesn't). Social causes and diversity are their culture with shallow electronic family connections. This seems to be their form of entertainment, drama and rebellion ! Now it is their turn to be the perfect parents and correct the mistakes we made.I would advise them to be committed, accountable and responsible.
I love all motorcycles. Over my lifetime I have bought what I can afford and enjoyed every ride. Finally bought my first Harley when I was 55. I'm now on my third, but it will probably be my last. They have gotten too expensive and I will need to start moving to lighter bikes sooner than later.
I bought me a 125cc motorcycle/scooter. It's super light and I use it around town, the bank, the library, the store and just cruising around. Now my heavier bike is used for highway and freeway where the weight is less noticeable.
I’m 34 years old. Rode dirt my whole life. Just got my first road legal bike. Bought myself a Honda dual sport, to adventure ride. One of my buddies and i did 135 miles down in berks county PA a couple weekends ago when the weather was spectacular for the season…55° and sunny. Of course every guy and gal that loves to ride was out riding. Big groups, small groups. We passed a chain of bikes, maybe 40 of them, and they were all makes and models, from
Harleys to 3 brand new Honda super cubs at the back. I’m a polite person so I wave at every biker, I don’t care what you ride, I just want more guys and gals riding, period. I made a mental note, because not one Harley rider would take their hand off the bars to wave at two guys, one on a Honda another on a triumph.
To each their own, but the “you don’t have or ride a Harley, therefore you are inferior or less of a man” mantra was never my cup of tea, and I’m not knocking it. But we passed 100bikes that day, none of the Harley guys could stoop down to our level and give a friendly wave.
Who cares what you ride, it’s the feeling the bike gives you deep down in your soul.
64 years old here, bought my first HD. Been able to afford one for a long, long, long time, but just felt that the value wasn't there. I ended up buying a used Milwaukee 8 107 CI Sport Glide. Wouldn't buy from a HD dealership, they are downright crooked and corrupt. Instead bought from a private party and probably saved myself $4000 to $5500 on a 5 year old HD. Dealerships want $16-$17000 for the 2018 I bought. They try to snatch up every private party used HD they can find. I finally found one for sale used from a Private Party, and it's everything I've ever wanted in a Cruiser, and for a fair and reasonable price. Forks weeped oil on it, 3 HD dealerships said it needed new fork seals for $650. Went to an independent repair shop, said I needed new seals and bushings and it would be $350 to $400. Went online, watched a smart british guy cut up a 1 gallon plastic milk jug with a utility knife to fabricate a tool, and slid it up the forks after carefully wiping everything off of the forks with a soft cloth, and fix the leaking seals. Did the same myself, the milk jug was free. So yeah, I feel Harley Davidson shops are absolutely criminal. Ask the service department to clean your fork seals if they are leaking, and see what they try to charge you for, for repairs, if they even will.
I think that the sales never recovered because the twin cam sucked and was not a step forward from the Evo, which was already 25 years behind competitors' designs in terms of not producing multiport, overhead cam heads. Obtaining port velocity while retaining port volume would have been like having our cake and eating it too. Aftermarket companies brought it to light that the single crank journal that drove two pistons rods together was being supported by roller bearings as opposed to the previous Timken bearings. The aftermarket maximized on the opportunity to fill that gap with their welded, balanced, Timken design which provided a way back to gear driven cams. The crappy plastic cam tension guide for chain driven cams was becoming a well-known problem. To add fuel to the flame, the engine design ignored the modern V-Rod motor that with liquid cooling and 500 more cc's would open HD motors to better cam timing and ignition maps due to the predictive liquid-cooled environment of the motor. Who wouldn't want a 1700cc V-Rod in one of the FLH variants? Harley increased its mass manufacturing runnout tolerances It was a slap in the face to technology and anyone with half a brain at this point, but yet still Harley kept raising the prices of P.O.S. designs in the name of "The Purests," Even the gear boxes and compensators suck. Baker has one gear on his main shaft and Harley has four (translation = Clunk) when going into gear. I'm generation X and after spending all the money I had to spend to fix the deliberate de-engineering of the HD, I feel that I was ripped off. "Oh but here's a Screaming Eagle catalog to put the parts that we should have put on your overpriced, air cooled P.O.S. in the first place." Just keep moving that stroke out further to the edge of the flywheel to band-aid a crappy design. The M8 is just an Evo with multiports and mild liquid cooling in the head but too little too late. That's why I won't buy another. Get a Goldwing and save yourself the trouble.
RELIABILITY ??? This actually happened to me and my two riding buddies in 1971. If they see this, they will remember. The three of us and their two wives and my girl friend took a trip to Palomar Observatory from San Diego. I and Nancy on my 1965 Pan Head, Charley and wife Marion on a 1969 Triumph 650, and Larry and wife Susan on a fairly new 750 Honda. It was a typical beautiful Southern California day. We were having a wonderful ride until Larrys' Honda began to over heat and seeze up. So we tied a rope to the back of my Harley and wrapped (not tied) it around Larrys' handle bars so I could tow him and Susan. This worked well. But low and behold, a little while later Charleys' Triumph had the same break down. So we tied another rope to the back of Larrys' Honda, and wrapped it around Charleys' handle bars. There we were, my old Pan towing the two of them. We were able to take our time in the mountains, but Interstate 5 was a different story. And it was dark. We had to kick it on up to keep from getting run over. The old Pan performed perfectly without a glitch all the way back to Ocean Beach. That old Pan carried Nancy and I on many trips to the mountains and dessert. I also road it every day to Point Loma Submarine base. It was the only transportation I had. It never once let me down. I took care of it and didn't abuse it. I have had cense then a 78 Shovel, 82 Shovel, 57 Pan, 63 Pan, and a 86 FXSTC Block Head. Several hundred thousand miles later, not once did any of them let me down. This is a honest testament. IN THE WIND
The un-marketing concept is funny because when I worked in marketing for a H-D dealership we hired those very people. If you cut them they bleed orange and black. We hired the long haired, cut wearin, bearded guys in sales. If you didn't know your Knuckle from your Shovel they didn't want to talk. I was hired on because I knew social media but I was a sport guy at heart. I rode a Buell M2 Cyclone during my tenure there. I was in a meeting where we were talking about the new model roll out and I was shocked. We had an updated radio, an updated rear end for the Tri Glide and new colors on last years offering. That's it! Oh. . . and the Tri Glide update was to fix a known issue.
Wow! That’s awesome! Thank you for sharing this!🙌🙏
One of the big problems in my opinion is, Harley-Davidson is catering to their stockholders to the point they are pricing themselves out of the market. Yes, People are buying Harleys from the dealership, but alot more are being sold from the private sector, myself included. I retired recently and always wanted a Harley. But, couldn't pay that huge price. I found an excellent bike very well taken care of for $6,200. Since Harley is targeting the millennia sector (imop), is produce an engine capable of producing more Horsepower and liquid cooled. I think alot of the younger people see Harleys as a big, very slow hunk of steel. Change is inevitable, but of course Harley wants to keep the brand alive, then they are going to have to change the bikes and attitudes of people. I Love Harley-Davidson especially the history that comes with it. and love the old school nostalgic look. But I also know they need to change, in order to stay in business.
I'm in between a rock and a hard place... I have to much into it to sell for a decent return and to practically give it away..... Stuck with this one for the rest of my life.... not complaining but a fact. I came from Rockets all my life but after my kidney transplant and turning 54 had to leave the speed to the young guns
@@wink9110 , 100% understand. Hang in there Big dawg.
Price is definitely the biggest issue, but I think selection is the 2nd one. They don't need to get rid of their classic styled stuff, but they shouldn't be just satisfied with it. If you look at someone like Honda, you can get all types of bikes, across all types of CCs. From little 50cc scooters, to dirt bikes, sports bikes, cruisers, touring, adv. They've got it all. Someone starting off on some little Metropolitan or Ruckus has so many different options branching off from that.
Im 58. I've ridden metric bikes since i was 16. I bought a 2020 Road Glide limited a year ago. I bought a 2015 Roadmaster yesterday. I love them both. My Harley dealership is excellent, fair,and friendly. My Indian dealership is the same. I just don't get all the animosity towards Harley davidson. They are an American for-profit company. They are free to make as much money as they can. I'm happy that people are on two wheels regardless of what they ride.
Wish they would take those “free” motorcycles and send me just ONE🤣💀
The only thing they need to change is the price. I love Harley and won’t buy anything else but just because I’ll drop 23K on a low rider doesn’t mean enough people will. You’re absolutely right too that new sportster should be 10k. I bought my sportster new in 2017 for I think 8k
No soortster should be over 10k. A Polaris Indian scout, even a 60 cubic will leave any sportster in the dust for under 10k
And for those folks who don't work on their own bike I suggest buying Metric,Because HD service Department will crush your wallet!
@@hootertexas9711 ... Bullsh!t. I just priced out the new Scouts (both 60's and Bobbers). They USED to be under $10k, but not today bud. I ended up buying a decked out garage queen 2014 FLSTFB for ~$11K (103ci) and will put it up against ANY of the current year Scouts.
Then again, I put in some research before I dropped the hammer on the purchase. People today are too lazy to look for deals. They just want to walk in and be handed the best price, then bitch when it doesn't meet their expectations, or unfounded (lower than market) value.
@@JamesStreetStation easy killer. … you just gotta up your money game. You’ll be alright.
@@JamesStreetStation you are aware fat boys aren’t sportsters?
Harley doesn't give a sh!t about it's riders, culture, or anything else except profit.
As a business which do you want: culture or cash?
Yep. They only want to exploit its customers🎯
Don’t forget a kind of hidden social metamorphosis … When I was a teenager, at the beginnings of the mullet decade, dirt bike was so cool… We grew a little up and move to the big cruiser circus in the 90s and 00s. We liked the road, but miss a little dirt. Then came big reliable ADV bikes. A lot of us wouldn’t resist the appeal of 80/20 riding, moving from the city to the backcountry and back. This is called… best of both worlds. We’ll never go back to the cruiser circus, clowns, acrobats and costumes; we just found back some of our roots and we’re mixing them with (still a lot of) pavement. Midlife crisis? Maybe. A new variation of HD cosplay? To a certain extent, yeah… But ain’t gonna buy any road-only bike anymore, cause a little good old dirt just makes life… wiser.
I'm 55 and street riding is boring to me. I have a dirt bike, Duel Sport, and ADV bike. Very doubtful I will ever buy a cruiser again. Just the thought of jumping on a 700+ lb motorcycle makes me cringe.
I'm 70 YO. I just bought a Honda Rebel 500 after I crashed my Liter bike. I have owned 6 new bikes in my years none were HD's. If HD would make a 500, 750 , 900 CC bike amf price it under 10 grand then with the right advertising I think many young riders would buy HD's. I don't know anyone in their right mind that would pay 20 thousand dollars for a motorcycle in today's economy. I know I'm not that stupid. Now there are folks that make big money that can afford to dole out the cash or can afford the financing; Most of us can not.
I 1000000% agree with you!💯🎯
Young fella at my local dealer was telling me the young kids don't like the forwards he said we wear sneakers and full face helmets. He was trying to convince me that was the new way. I told him with all due respect I'll never be that way. I'm 50 and if we all die out and that style takes over so b it but I ain't changing. Then he went on to ask me how the 80s were he was so fascinated at how crazy n free we were then.
We're called dyna bros. It's a whole subculture
I’m a 70s kid. Raced dirt bikes, still got a garage full of them. then superbikes
in 2000 I took a almost brand new super glide sport px on the fastest latest Japanese thing.
Only because a local HD dealer said he’d take off me right away.
The problem was I quite liked it. It was so unlike anything I’d ever owned it was mostly black with just enough chrome to make the black paint look even better.
I sold it to the dealer a few months later.
It’s embarrassing but it was pier pressure from my sports bike mates.
I said it was embarrassing. I never forgot how good it looked Ive always loved the look of that bikes with twin shocks.
Jump forward and I bought a Buell then another and a third. By then I was in a club that all had Harley’s
And decided they wasn’t really my thing but if I was going to get one it had to be another DYNA. It was love at first ride. I’ve never spent so much time on a bike.
I have a beautiful gloss black Harley sat in my garage. It’s everything a proper Harley should be. Being one of the last of the dyna s it handles superb, brakes are abs with cvo floating disks. It has the big fat stanchions rock solid and the Harley premium Showa shocks, it’s mine, I still don’t like Harley’s but I love mine. The new model’s don’t do anything for me what so ever you can tell me the new ones are a couple of mph faster and if you test one the handling is ever so slightly better. Well I had a M109R before this and if i want all that.
there’s a fireblade sat in the garage that does thousands of miles per hour. Corners like formula 1 car. And is smoother and quieter that electric.
The point I’m trying to make is most Harley riders like Harley to be Harley’s air cooled a bit shaky and loud.
feel the way only a Harley does. I have tried a new ones.
Sorry but it makes want to stick with my dyna Lowrider s even more
Harley don’t seem to know there own market. The kids can’t afford them. The guys who can like there current bikes better. The buyer in the middle don’t consider a Indian Harley a Harley. So they buy a mint second hand bike instead and I don’t blame them. Harley is scaring all its own customers away. They spend money on the bike they have because there’s nothing in
the showrooms for them / me. Cheers
Reliability is the most important thing to me as a motorcyclist. I'm a first time Harley owner who doesn't give a shit about Harley culture. I pray my road glide doesn't let me down because Harley WILL lose my business.
Stay on top of your maintenance bro, there are HD's everywhere that have run for 50k to 100k. Rubber down friend.
Both of these other comments are great and true. Maintenance is the key. I got my first Harley in 1988. It was 4 yrs old and I was the third owner. I still ride it daily. I have over 150,000 on it and upgraded the displacement once after a ring broke. It's .100 over stock. Only reason ring broke was me racing it. Stock it would out run a lot of bikes and it held the track record for years. She was a mid year 1984 FXRT. I don't race anymore but she still will give you a run for the money. Maintenance is tge key with regular oil changes religiously.
My brand new 2022 harley davidson softail shutoff while i was riding in the middle of busy traffic, kinda scary, mechanic checked the bike and said its ok
@@j.vosier6786 aliens did it!
@@neildewitt2869 lol that could be true, i never had a bike shutoff on me, this is my first ever harley
You may recall the Movie “ The Wild Ones” where gangster motorcyclist ( mostly WWII vets) took over a town. That movie attracted a number of boomers, but only a small number. Honda came to public notice in the early 60’s and attracted a large number of customers by using the slogan “ You meet the nicest people on a Honda.” My first bike was a Honda 90, it was cheap, dependable and easy to maintain. I rode a few other brands including the H/D , but found that the Honda met all my needs, and I did meet nice people who rode the Honda. I’m 74 years old and continue to ride. My ride now is a Goldwing. My son recently bought a bike and asked me what he should buy. A Honda was the only choice.
Harley-Davidson should bring their prices down to where the metric bikes are and that would make them more competitive and more people would want to buy them. Also have a better guarantee on the bike. Like a full warranty lifetime warranty that will catch everybody's eye
it wouldnt be the status symbol it is if they were priced like the imports.
There is no need to do either. Harley’s are for people who know high quality bikes and can afford them. The materials used on Harley’s are far superior compared to other manufacturers in the same class of motorcycles. Their resale value is also much higher than other brands.
The Honda slogan was - you meet the nicest people on a Honda. Dad's rode goldwings my entire life. I had a VROD for years and the flak that I got from guys one big twins was obnoxious. I now have a 15 Fatboy that's been bobbed out. I love Harley motorcycles but a good portion of their owners stick their nose up at people who ride anything else, which is very sad.
Even the Indian made Royal Enfield's are reliable now a days. Manufacturing standards have gotten so good that even cheap crap brands are somewhat reliable. And you are right on about the buy American thing. I am a die hard buy American guy, when HD ticked me off I started buying Victory's. But I mention to people at work that I have American made cars and bikes for the "buy American" reason and they look at me like I have two heads.
Because even the "made in America" cars and trucks are full of foreign parts. LOL< I used to laugh at work when I saw a "Build America with American Products" sticker on a Cat excavator. You sure as fuck don't see those stickers anymore on your Made in Brazil (with parts from: hungary, China, Ukraine, etc.etc.) construction equipment.
@@imanrobota4849 But you can still find some "mostly made in America" things. One of the reasons we bought a Lincoln for instance was the model was 65% American made. That's better than 0%.
I'm 63 years old, and I had a 2013 Heritage Softail Classic Anniversary that I bought new, and sold in 2022... and a '97 Dyna Low before that. I now have a 2012 Triumph Thunderbird 1600 ABS and I love it! And yes, it was the culture and the politics that made me switch away from HD. Not to mention that my current Thunderbird would run rings around my Softail at half the price.
Honda motto was you meet the nicest people on a Honda. Harley-Davidson did not embrace the so-called Outlaw culture up until the '90s which the rich Urban bikers started showing money at them so they can play badass biker at bike night at the local bar. They have promoted the ride to drink drink to ride lifestyle so much it is endemic in the brand and people who want to buy a motorcycle want to buy a motorcycle not a lifestyle. It used to be when you went to a motorcycle party you knew a lot of people there now you don't know anybody's there. There is no camaraderie other than birds of a feather flock together.
I agree to they stopped HOG Rallies. I eould spend my summers going to 4-5 rallies each summer. Now it's Sturgis and home! Harley abandoned me not me to them. Even my life time membership I don't get a magazine monthly anylonger. It's digital and I live in bush Alaska. No internet, computer, electric or running water yet. Who needs that? Not a real man.
My boys 11, 9, and 8 are hooked on Harleys. If Harleys survives they will
be in the market a decade from now.
💯💯💯
Harley executives made a wrong decision when they sided with the runs. From that point on it was all about the money. Priced themselves right out of the market.
I’ve been riding Harley’s for 50 years but I’ve never bought a bike from them, drag raced Harley’s in the 80s. Harley’s came with inherent problems and knowing what they were in the evo I preferred to build my own and bypass the built in upcoming failures, we knew through performance what was weak ! Delkron cases were my favorite.
Right on! Delkron is the way to go......
I’m a millenial (born in 1985) and I totally disagree. I bought my first Harley last Summer and I love it. Before the Harley, I owned a Vulcan 1500 which was my first bike. Like most folks my age, I thought about going the sportsbike route for first bike but but decided to get a cruiserinstead and I’m so glad I did. This goes to show that most criticism towards Harley from the younger generation are baselesss generalizations and don’t necessarily represent the views of the individual.
Well said!!
as a Union Carpenter I always wanted to buy American, but I'm not a harley guy! In 1986 when I finished my apprenticeship and had some money to spend there were no American bikes that attracted me......I bought a house instead of a bike, would'nt buy a rice burner and could'nt afford a BMW.....I almost bought a Honda Gold wing, my brother did though.
I couldn’t ride a gold wing, ever. So shout out to your brother for being that bold🤣💯
I’m 22 and own a 22 ultra limited. I’ve had a ton of younger riders say shit to me about riding a HD. “ that’s an old man bike” is usually what I’m told.. not that I give a damn lol
You see more an enjoy things when you go slow I had a sport bike but it bugged the crap out of people cause I wouldn't get faster than 55 rofl I would ride along in 3 gear with the gas cracked so most of the time I was running slower than the speed limit. I did ever now an then crank it up. But when i sold it my dad looked at my an said "well I hate you sold your bike but I'm so happy its gone" lol
@@hellsrs470 I’ve ridden leader bikes before and been well into triple digits. (in Mexico of course ;)…. ) that’s is exciting but ide much rather be on my air ride bagger just relaxing and enjoying the wind with my wife
@@masonbeck6306 I’m a young rider on a bagger, I have a buddy of dogs my bike but I’ll say hey, at least I can do 400 miles a day.
@@jacobdowney318 definitely I would like to see them do 12 hours in a day like I did in the fall.
I’m with you man, I’m 27 and LOVE my “old man” bike. Tour Pack for life 😆
Generation Z here (23), I have had 2 sports bikes, a victory, an iron 1200 and now looking at the sportster s. If it wasn’t for the Revmax platform I wouldn’t be a Harley customer anymore.
The biggest things for me and my riding friends is 1 - the cost, the entry level has become too expensive. For the money you are putting down other brands offer more bang for the buck. I understand Harley is marketed as a premium product but that only goes so far
2- the dealerships
I bought a Honda CBR brand new and the dealer expirence was phenomenal. When I went to purchase the sportster s from my local dealer they almost laughed me out the door. I suppose they thought i was too young to own a Harley. The sales man literally said “the T shirts are over there, all these bikes would be out of your budget”
I ended up travelling over an hour to the next dealer where they have been treating me really good.
But honestly after the Sportster S I don’t think I will be staying inside the Harley bubble
if the sporster s was suppose to be aimed at the m's and z's then perhaps HD shouldn't have stuck a higher tag on it than what they even had listed on the stickers of the demos at Sturgis. Its a nice bike and is quicker than most think but if anything should be closer to 10k than closer to 20k honestly. the thing the person failed to realize is that the biker culture isn't the same as their beloved cancel culture by any means. Honestly HD's of being rebellious is more our gen x attitudes of not caring much about the nit picky things. But honestly though the prices I'm sure have the most to do with things going south for HD not to mention their recent lack or reliability to go along with. 19.3k on my motor before the compensator shattered into pieces causing me to replace the whole motor only good thing was it was within the warranty timeframe had it not been I'd been pissed off majorly being the bike wasn't even two years old yet when it blew. Before anyone says and thinks oh need to make sure you change the oil blah blah.. let me say that the bike has had the HD dealership do the maintenance at every point up to where it gave out. In fact it was already setup to go in for its 20k work 3 weeks later but never made it. So yeah HD has to stop with the cheap parts if they are going to be charging premium prices. If they want to use all these plastic and nearly completely unfinished molded parts then they need to lower the prices to be more on set with the quality of what they are putting out lately. Even those with the S have had issues from the start that i've been seeing which i'm sure for a 16k+ bike it shouldn't be having any major issues especially with starting due to some sort of computer glitch. So yeah somewhat agree with them but not on everything.
In the wind is a state of mind. How you get there, doesn't really matter. For me, growing up in Milwaukee, the biker image was pretty hard-core to say the least. When I started learning the value of a hard earned dollar in the late 70s, and started a family in the mid 80s. I realized right away I could have alot more fun for alot less money, if I didn't fall victim to some fantasy motorcycle that broke everytime I rode it over 85mph. Loud pipes and tons of chrome only get you soo far. I'm too performance oriented to ever really want a HD. Any bike can be great if you pour money into it. I just can't ever see spending 25k+ to feel cool enough to hang out. There's quite a few really good bikes being sold for under 15k that will embarrass 95% of anything HD has ever made. I've got 16k into my Triumph Speed Twin with plenty of custom parts since new.
My super glide was about 7k, with less than 5k additional mods and motor work, that bike can perform. 12k is a lot different than 25k, stop bloating numbers lmao.
@@Dexatron I thought you'd realize I'm talking about new motorcycles, today. Not used bikes 30 years ago.
@@andrewbecker3700 a 2009 isn’t a 30 year old bike. You literally can’t stop inflating numbers…
@@Dexatron Your talking about used bikes, is it that hard to understand? What HD is under 15k new that isn't a Sporty? Gotta compare apples to apples, there rocketman.
@@andrewbecker3700 nobody is buying brand new bikes when they are first getting into Harley’s. Only old people do that shit when they finally decide they wanna ride a Harley at 55. I couldn’t name a single person I know that rides that bought brand new for their first bike. It’s actually ridiculous to think that would be the case. But someone who feels they have to spend 25k on a brand new Harley to fit in, tells me everything I need to know about what kind of rider you are rocket man
I'm 28 (Gen-Z), I think my geration is craving the next generation of HD!
We love Harley's, but it's the price... We just wanna ride 🤷♂️, maintenance, performance per dollar, exc... it adds up to be a luxury far more than a motorcycling experience 😢
I don't think we have an issue with spending the extra money on quality products. HD just needs to real us in on quality.
If they had the sound of a Harley, but it rode like a V-rod. I do think lines would start forming again. But not for $30,000
No kidding! They out priced themselves💯🤦♂️
I'm over 50 & have both a Harley & a couple of Hondas...so far as reliability goes, the Hondas have them beat hands down...but the Harley is actually the better riding bike...but this is my last Harley, if I ever get rid of it, I'll never have another one...I like being able to put the key in & go...put gas in it & ride it...the Hondas do that...the Harley, on the other hand, for a bike with the reputation of being so badass, you sure do have to pet & coddle them to keep them on the road...I'm old & don't like hassles & every Harley I've ever had has given me hassles every time I turn around...if this one wasn't paid for, I'd have already sold it for a Kawasaki Voyager...
You got it spot on, as part of the Millennials age range I can't never justify spending 30K+ on a motorcycle. When I started riding, I started on an old dirt bike and eventually moved up a cruiser, I wanted a hardly but the cost pushed me by a brand new Honda Shadow for 8k, things runs like a Honda zero issues smooth cheap and reliable
I am the Harley stereo type. I’m in my 50’s rode Japanese and German until I could afford nice Harleys. Harley just needs to work on quality to make every one want one and when they can they will buy. I ride all 12 months in Colorado when I can, it is not transportation it is a way of life. Let the used market and other brands fill the gap like they always have and make Harley something you work way up to. Harley just needs to improve an make it worth it.
Funny I bought a brand new FXRS in 1990, at 21 years old. Now at 55 I ride a Honda ST1300. With all the used Harleys on the market I may just get one, there are plenty of cheap low mileage garage furniture out there. The dealerships have turned into entertainment venues🤮. Harley isn’t doing well, they financed anyone with a pulse, and now they are repossessing bikes faster than they are selling them. Driving the prices even lower.
I'm an Army Vet. Been riding for over 40 years. Started out on a Honda at 18, I'm currently on a 2021 Heritage and absolutely love it. I didn't buy it to look cool ,or act tough, or be a 1%er wannabe. And I've never watched a single episode Sons of Anarchy. I bought the bike because I thought is was a beautiful machine with fewer bells and whistles, and a more pure and simple riding experience. And I wasn't wrong. I'll ride with anyone that loves riding and loves motorcycles. It doesn't matter what they ride. American Bikes, German Bikes, Japanese Bikes whatever. I'm not knocking people in 1%er clubs, or social, or family Harley Clubs. For me it's just to boring when everyone rides that same thing, wears the same thing, has the same rules, and goes to the same places etc. I think Harley might be trying to expand who rides their bikes. Because in the end, it's a business that has to make money. Compared to what Harley produced back in the AMF Days, I don't think Harley is doing to bad. IMHO
I love your outlook on it, because that is 100% accurate. I love that you followed your own lane and didn’t cave into something you ultimately wouldn’t want to do. Glad you did everything for YOU and not someone else!🎯
The bad boy image would still work if the bikes cost a little bit less. It’d be different if they offered more, like power windshields on their touring bikes, rider modes on their larger bikes 2020 and up and stuff like that. Then the price would be justified. But instead of growing with the times in the features department like every other major company they just change the color choices and jack up the price each year. Hell you’d be lucky to get LED headlights on anything that’s not a special or CVO. Which is ridiculous in 2023
Except there are many of us who prefer the halogen headlights. More nostalgic and closer to vintage. Not at all a fan of the LEDs. And THAT'S why there's Vanilla and Chocolate!
And the Harley color choices are: black, black, and a rare blue or red with blacked out engines and exhaust.
The Honda comment was, You meet the nicest people on a Honda
That’s true💯
I'm a 70s child and HD rider, and I have isolated myself from the majority of fellow HD riders. Too much ego fed attitude going on with everyone trying to play outlaw (until confronted by the real thing), instead of just enjoying the ride.
It's the image portrayed that turns people away. No one enjoys getting harassed based on stereotype profiling.
I'm in Harley's "sweet spot" - a 61 year old motorcyclist with disposable income. I have 8 bikes in the garage, but zero Harleys. H-D makes anything you want as long as it's a V-twin cruiser, neither of which I want. My dollars have gone to Triumph, Honda and BMW.
8 bikes?! Bro you are a legend!🙌
I have owned a few Harley and I still have an 883 iron. The first problem Harley went corporate they kind of forgot the friendship thing and it was more about sales the second they dropped the Dyna line and then the sportster evolution line the two biggest sellers. The next is they continue to push for model upgrades and some how forget about expenses and the struggling economy.
I think the article is spot on, new buyers don't resonate with the culture and the price point makes it unapproachable.
The problem with marketing to the age group that can afford it is they are marketing to buyers that were already sold on Harleys 30 years ago, and can now afford them. When they age out of bikes, and my generation can afford a brand new, fully loaded HD, we still won't want them.
Bottom line: They gotta do something about the price.
Most bikers are charitable and genuinely great people to be around. There is always a % that give a bad rep
Read the comments. These dudes are all about acting like kids and hanging out with thier gang. I can appreciate that fun, but I have a job and a family. Not sure how FTW and having a normal life work together. No disrespect for all you guys with middle fingers and skeletons on everything.... but I couldn't maintain my occupation with that image. I didn't get to a place in this world by acting like a "rebel" and tossing middle fingers at people. In fact, the reason I can easily afford an HD is because of my occupation. Not trying to be rude, but the image, the price, and this EXPECTED culture have pushed so so so many away from HD. But... its probably why so many mortgage thier trailers to finance one.
I've been riding 57 yrs. My first fast bikes were Kawasaki H1 and H2s. I now ride a '99 Magna, mint with 33k. I think the guy at the end of your piece said it all with the middle finger. It's the culture. Does he want to fight? Is he angry? I stopped a couple years ago to help a guy on a Harley. I was on a 650 Suzuki, and he was genuinely surprised that I stopped. It's the culture. Good video.
I’m in my 50’s now and all my life Ive always loved Harley Davidson, never rode a bike, but they have always been an interest of mine before I turned 10, as a supporter I’m so proud to see the company still going
Professing a love for something you never rode is hilarious.
@@johnengland8619I have never learned to ride a bike either but i love Harleys haha! There is something with harleys and the culture around them that I really appreciate. I just wish I had the chance to learn how to ride motorcycles. But I’m still in my 30s, so I can still maybe learn.
@@RyuJPage you should go to a class get out and ride because you sound like a demented fan boy who gushes over motorcycles like it's a parade
@@johnengland8619 why is it hilarious? some people love horses but have never been on one... some people love art but don't know how to paint... some love music but can't play a chord. Just because they've never learned or been taken in hand and taught how to ride a motorcycle doesn't mean they can't appreciate the styling, sound, and longevity of the company.
@@RyuJPage you absolutely can learn. I messed around a couple years on dirt bikes/enduros in my early teens but got into cars and trucks. I just decided to take a MSF course last year and get my motorcycle license at age 49. Passed it with no problem, bought a 10 yr old Yamaha cruiser a week later to get my feet wet in real-road riding... no issues after a couple of months with that, went on some group rides with friends who all ride harleys... ended up buying my first HD a couple of weeks ago. It's never too late, you just have to decide to do it and once you commit you stick to it.
As a Harley owner, my next bike will probably be a Honda. I like my bike, but the cost of a new one makes me cringe. They need to build some cheaper “fun” or the market share will continue to decline. It’s only a matter of time before the Chinese clones are as good or better. Most people will settle for “good enough” and “cheap”. A bike shouldn’t cost as much as a nice car or truck.
It’s crazy how expensive it is🤦♂️
The biggest problems with Harley is the price of their bikes, performance and quality. I have had many new bikes over the years and currently own a 2019 Fat Boy 114 and 2018 VMax. Of all my bikes, only the Harley’s gave me problems. This will be my last Harley for sure.
They weak 4 motor size
These young millennials do think like this. My oldest son is 28 and loves HD bikes but can only afford used my youngest son is 23 and thinks like the kid who wrote the article and he rides metric bikes
Im 29 and just bought a harley, they are indeed expensive
As a 60 year old Yamaha V Max rider I have no complaints.
I grew up riding my dad’s Harley baggers. He got a new one every two years. I’m 26 now and ride a 200cc China scooter. It’s extremely quiet, gets 110mpg and I love it.
Replacing tires on a 2021 Electra Glide, front $264, rear $369, total with labor, $950. 3 hole oil change. $178. Selling this and my Super Glide, I'm out. 😅
Omg🤦♂️ It’s just getting worse and worse💯🎯
millennial here, born in 85 raised in the 90s. My father was a biker at a young age, he got an 88 low rider when I was little, and he totaled it 3 months later. Mom didnt allow another bike until 03 100 anniversary came out and he pre-ordered his new super glide. I got that super glide in my garage. its now 20 years old with just under 70k miles. My wife and I enjoyed it but wanted to upgrade to a road glide ultra. Only thing I can barely afford was a 2010 or so around $12k with over 30k miles. So I opted for a 2018 Kawasaki Voyager with only 6K miles for about $12k. Does everything a big Harley does for 1/3 the price. Only thing is I had to upgrade to a Bluetooth adapter for it for under 200 dollars. Already had exhaust and sounds damn good. I'd love a Harley, my dad has a 2019 limited ultra and rides the piss out of it. But he's retired and can afford a 35k dollar motorcycle. I most likely never will. I started on 1100 yamaha virago when i was 18. But the only reason I can afford my super glide was because it was free. I don't under stand why Harley refuses to cater to a younger crowed with more affordable cruisers is beyond me. They only need one or two models and keep them simple but I guess that just wont fly over at HD.
My favorite ride is a customized Harley. However, many non-Harley riders consider us as part of a cult that they do not particulate fancy. The bad boy image is not universally acclaimed. When working as customer service director at a well-known Swedish car manufacturer a neighbor exclaimed " You drive a Harley, but they are criminals". I need to add that she was American. Our club garage got BMW's, Kawasaki, Triumph, Honda, Indian, Moto-Guzzi and a bunch of Harleys. We love bikes and riding; Harley is one of many options.
I guess I'm just too financially frugal and can't see myself spending that kind of money 😉 I can enjoy same kind of riding experience on something cheaper...and I rarely ride with others
@insanemotorcyclelife also I can't see myself ever getting a motorcycle with a loan. Either I have the cash or I don't.
I’m a millennial, wealthy and have 5 motorcycles. It’s not about the bikes being cheap. It’s about them being overpriced and having an emphasis on sun culture that’s obsolete in todays world. Why would I suffer on a Harley, when I can ride a Yamaha that won’t breakdown. Is reasonable to maintain and I don’t have to get looked at like I’m some poser boomer that owns a bike that’s more of a monument to his wealth than about actual riding. Than and I don’t want to hang out at a bar with a bunch of similar people then ride to the next bar and then the next bar. Trying to look hard. That’s what my grand father did. Not what my generation wants or is impressed by. Harley is outdated and overpriced. They simply aren’t cool.
Millennials won't buy Harleys because they're afraid they can't wear skirts when they ride
I work at a hotel .. and most of the HD guys that stay at the hotel every year , are older pot belly , loud drinking guys , with cut of sleeves ... I call them weekend warriors want to be HD riders .. Big difference in older HD guys that sunk every last dime into their bikes .. Some one posted below , saying " PRICE , PRICE , PRICE .. Yep .. That's the real reason to why the youth dont want then is the cost .. The name alone carries a high price tag for something that stops running after year or so .. This generations ball park cost is , LOWER PRICES .. A bike to them is not what they want to drive to work , or use when having a small family .. Even have a church group that comes in that show up on HARLEY'S .. But most of them are family men , that dont ride daily .. The youth dont want to even try working on the most simple broken thing on a Harley .. mechanics today , are expensive .. I'm 62 , and I myself quit working on my bikes and trucks .. If my Truck is down , and needs work , Its going to a shop to be worked on , my bike is the last thing I sink money into .. Just how people drive today .. scares most people out of buying a bike .. Way to much road rage .. The list goes on ,and on , to why HD is sinking fast .. I'm seeing more and more woman driving bikes today .. a change from the older generation is taking place .. Out with the old , in with the new ... As prices on everything are here to stay ,..
Absolute Facts💯🎯
I'm impressed by Harley Davidson's clever but simple marketing. Since its inception, Harley Davidson has marketed an image that targets the insecurities and vulnerabilities of some men by presenting a product that gives those men the illusion of personal power, ruggedness, strength, toughness, coolness, masculinity, virility, and rebellion. These are primal traits that some men want more of, and Harley Davidson knows how to provide illusions that convince those men to buy Harley Davidson products. Loud pipes, black leather, chains, "interesting" costumes and accessories, tattoos, boots, beards, and beer don't embody greater power, but they give some men the hallucination of it. The more insecure and needy the man, the more attracted he will be to the image. You will read what real power is later in this post.
Harley riders are rolling advertisements to the men whom Harley Davidson marketers want to target, and those marketers have engineered this brilliantly, as explained below.
Some Harley riders might believe that the riders, themselves, created the lifestyle, the attitude, and the identity that make up the image, but the image was actually engineered by Harley Davidson, the company that sells the products and that engineered the seed for all of the aftermarket ideas and mods. Want someone to fall for an idea? Then make them think they came up with the idea themselves. Any sense of individuality or rebellion that Harley riders have is actually conformance to Harley Davidson's long-term marketing plan. Harley Davidson has put its customers exactly where they want them.
What about men who use products that are not sold by Harley Davidson, like Indian or aftermarket suppliers? Sorry. The image, identity, and lifestyle were still engineered by Harley Davidson's marketers.
A man who is represented by who he truly is rather than by an illusion or image of himself is a powerful man, because an illusion or image is not only artificial, it's weak. A powerful man is independent of props, façades, and groups. Some men are attracted to an image to the level that the image becomes a significant part of his identity, and some men lose the ability to clearly distinguish between the image and himself. This is what Harley Davidson counts on. And because the image has become his identity, abandoning the image becomes a kind of death for him, and there's no better way to control a man than by fear of death (and by not letting him realize that you're controlling him).
The degree to which some men have reacted to Harley Davidson's recent proposed actions and decisions reveals the degree to which these men have felt threatened, yet these men don't realize the real reason why they feel threatened.
Riders' reactions to Harley products and the engineered image are what Harley Davidson wants to know, because the marketing team plays off of those reactions to adapt their marketing strategy. "Go Woke, Go Broke?" Remember, Harley Davidson isn't a person, even though the business might have been named after real people. It's a company, and executives at Harley won't be harmed if they are fired or resign or if Harley goes broke. Not only have they already banked their salaries and bonuses, they'll just move to another company. Their success (yes, success) with Harley will still stand in their favor. When a company goes broke or executives leave, it doesn't mean the executives lose their shirts.
When a single person, a board of directors, or other C-suite executives at a company can provoke such a dramatic response from thousands of customers via a decision, action, or other flick of a pen, that's not only success, that's power. When they can cause an uproar without breaking a sweat, that's power. Whom do they have power over? The followers.
Genuine strength, power, and identity aren't traits of followers. Genuine strength, power, and identity stand independently on their own and don't need to be displayed for validation. As for freedom, followers aren't free, they're bound.
Have you figured out yet who is really being played here, guys? I tell ya, Harley Davidson's marketing tactics are absolutely brilliant. And proven effective.
as a millennial who recently bought a bike. i think the author is right - my generation does not idolize beer drinkin, cigarrete smokin, brand loyalty, and bikes that obnoxious for the sake of being obnoxious. when i see a Harley rider i usually think to myself "he is probably already drunk". i cant see myself on an HD, but maybe someday!
You nailed man, Harley must concentrate on 1 particular type of demographic and that's the 40-60 age range and stop trying to be all things to all people.
This "bring'em all in" guise has steadily gone backwards for years.
For Harley to stop the bleeding they just need to go back to basics and be the best bike for the man and woman and there mid life crises, pardon the pun !
Those that can afford the new Harleys and want to ride cruising style, that's it.
After that one can choose whatever lifestyle they want👍
Have you even rode a new harley.? Nobody riding anything 2019 and up is complaining. You keep trying to blame someone else for harley tanking. It was taking cause the bikes suck. All they have is esthetics.. they were giant mini bikes. The stunt scene and younger rider are what's bin carrying harley for the last 5 years easy. The stunt scene channels are destroying one's like this as far as viewership. As are the aftermarket parts suppliers. He'll the baggers racing league is probably the best thing that could of happened to bring harley back to its real roots..RACING.. not road sofas.
You use cost as a excuse why they Are not liked. Every manufacture with bikes in the same tear cost just as much. With cvo as a exception. But people compare a lowrider st to a low buck jap cruiser. To justifie it! Rather than a sofyail standard. He's right about culter but that's the entire country right now not just harley. Loo at the cars young people will live in a card board box to drive.. it has next to nothing to do with cost. The bikes didn't perform for crap. You could get something smoother or faster from another manufacturer. Plain n simple. As far as looks.. the air cooled motors and classic looks are leaving because of emmisions #1 reason. I'm 38 I've bin riding on the st since 20. Dirtbikes since I was 7. Harley is collapsing cause they arnt delivering and have not for some time. They costed on thier name heritage and fit n finish..now Information supporting it is readily available at your fingertips.
@@dormantmenace Your trying to preach to converted man.
I been riding just about every make and model of bike there is since l was 3 years old, my old man owned Harleys before fashion was even integrated into the brand and l have owned Harleys for over 50 years, my dad gave me my first shovel to build when l was 10, before you were even born.
I and the creator of this POD can see where HD have gone wrong hence the reason l agree with the mans opinion.
This is not about picking on Harley because it's all for shits and giggles.
Points are being called out on Harley Davidson's direction both Corporate and Manfacturing... Valid points !
So you stick with your opinion cos if it makes you feel good then goodluck with it.
I been around long enough with my old man who to see Harley bought sold and bought again and when the corporates at Harley start getting nervous of late then it's time to slap these bitches back into some type of normality again, cos shit just ain't right at present with HD and it's showing and no amount of jerk jumping and bagger racing is going to convince me otherwise.
And l dont mean to offend but that's exactly how l see it !!
I agree with you but I still thought the Bronx had a chance of holding it's own.
@@carlbruhn1772 It's criminal that HD lnc. are not looking after these privately owned Harley outlets as we all watch the company slide into just another maker and it's all of there own making.
Someone has to grab the bull by the horns and rip these virtue signalling idiots at HD head quarters a new one.
Shit ain't right and if they continue down this path it will end painfully.
I love all bikes! I own 2 Indians, scout and Springfield. I’ll never own an HD just because the way I was treated at their dealership. Went straight to the closest Indian dealer was treated with respect, left with a bike that day. The HD dealer acted like I couldn’t afford their bikes until I pulled out 15k cash . Ohhhh then they couldn’t get themselves off of me . That day I decided I’d NEVER be apart of the HD family. Indian won me over and I’ll continue buying bikes from the brand.
HD is very, VERY infamous for this move🤦♂️
I'm 35. Own two Harleys and will be picking up a third. Always makes me laugh reading comments on videos like this. "Why won't these young whipper snappers conform! Always wanting to change things or do it their way!"
Millennial here. I'm 37 years old and have always loved Harley Davidsons. I grew up around them and my father still has his 1939 flat head. I own a 2001 Harley and will be keeping it for many more years. The reason is because between my mortgage kids and other bills I have no way to afford a 20k+ motorcycle. Not that I wouldn't love a new Harley Davidson. I don't think it's stereotypes or image that are pushing away the younger motorcycle riders. I think it's the price point. Harley's cheapest bike is 14k before all the fees. Other manufacturers are cheaper and faster. I do not care about speed but I do care about price. I have a friend at work that really likes the new nightstar but he said not enough to pay over 14k. When honda and Kawasaki offers bikes with similar performance for half that. They need to seriously lower their prices.