Brilliant stuff mate. I can't believe you didn't mention your shoes and feet during the race. I would've been moaning my head off 😄 Well done for finishing the 100. Thank goodness for unexpected pacers. Keep smashing it fella 👍🏻🏃♂️
Thanks very much Mark. The shoes really were the worst part of the race for me and my left foot is still in considerable pain even 3 days after. The surprise pacer was a definite highlight, probably would have started hallucinating in the night section if not! Cheers for watching fella
Amazing work Craig, to finish your first 100, after the disappointment of Thames Path. Always fun to see UA-camr runners rocking up at the same race. You, @30somethingMike and Dave from @FilmMyTrailRun and probably others.....with me filming the finish line antics!
Thanks very much Stephen, was very chuffed to have crossed the line after the Thames Path 100 fail in May. Looks like that 100 miler defeated us both! I'll be back next May to take it on for a 2nd time and hopefully cross the finish line. Yeah, great to have so many UA-camrs documenting their experiences of this great and absolutely brutal course. Do you reckon there'll ever be a Film My Run vid for the NDW100? Saw you at the finish line, looked like you were enjoying yourself!
@@runningcafe1 Thames Path totally screwed me the first time I tried it. Managed to get it done second time of asking. I' doing the Grand Slam next year so I'll have a second attempt at NDW way and I'll definitely be taking the camera! Feels like a long way off yet though!
@@runningcafe1 Thames Path absolutely killed me the first time. Managed to get it done second time around. I'm doing the Grand Slam next year so I can have a second crack at NDW then and yes I'll take the camera and see what I get! You should have come and said hi at the end. Although I imagine you just wanted to sleep!
It's a tracking device so that people can track your location and progress online as youi go through the race. Also, the organisers use it to ensure participant safety and I have heard of them being used to disqualify if they've cheated. Very useful if you're spectating! For Centurion races, you get given one and it's strapped to your bag at registration
Well done to you Craig. I was in the same boat years ago. I failed at Detling and then for 1 full year it eats you up and you have to make things right which i did. I remembered your video last year and i was cheering on the runners at the top of Box hill and i saw you. As always every year the NDW100 is so hot and you did everything right. If i may give you some advice....1) you can buy a really small bodyglide or squirrels nut butter. Don't put it in your drop bag. When i first failed the NDW it was because of the worst chaffing imaginable. Since that day i have never had the issue and if i ever feel the start of something then its so easily to take it out and deal with it in the dark when nobody is near. 2) Footwear, Give Hoka speedgoats a try. Super padded. My number one pair of shoes and after i finish a 100 miler my feet are normally perfect. Even the next day. As for gels, don't worry about what people think. If it works for you then good. There may be the odd race it wont and at least you can deal with that at an aid station. Well done to your bother also. Always good to have a pacer but if you don't get one then team up with another runner later on. They will be grateful aswell. It's not just chatting to help with sleep deprivation and boredom but 2 head torches are better than 1 and also come to gates then 1 can open and 1 can close. Anyway enjoy the buckle and the iconic shirt and i'll hopefully say hi to you on another Centurion race one day.
Thanks for this really useful and detailed comment Andy. Nice of you to be out there supporting the runners at the top of Box Hill! Fantastic work for managing to arrive at Detling for your NDW attempt. By the time I arrived there, I was like an extra out of a Zombie film so that's a massive achievement in its own right. It's great that you managed to put it right 1 year later, which is what I intend to do by running the Thames Path 100 again next May. It does eat away at you, doesn't it? Your advice is sound and spot on, I will definitely be getting a small Bodyglide to keep on me at all times in ultras from now on. The chaffing luckily was non-existent on my body, but I needed some kind of lubricant for my feet which were in a world of pain thanks to my shocking choice of shoes that I wore. Funnily enough, my brother (who also does pretty long ultras) has only ever worn Hoka Speedgoats and he can't speak highly enough of them so I will be getting a pair very shortly. It's good to have another recommendation about this shoe from an experienced runner! Agreed regarding the nutrition. If it works, it works, but obviously you need to adapt and change to what your body says on race day. The 'buddying up' tip is a good shout. No doubt I would have teamed up with another runner during the night section if my brother hadn't stepped in. I'm doing the Wendover Woods 50 miler and the Thames Path 100 next year, so if you're running one of those then I shall see you then! Thanks again for watching.
@@runningcafe1 Yes, i think you will love the Speedgoats. They are an awesome shoe. As for TP100 and WW50 i have to laugh. I've done TP100 6 times...failed the first and then finished it 5 times in a row. Its my favourite. Some people struggle with it as its flat but i just love looking at the houses along the course that i could never afford! As for WW50 the first time i did it i hated it, since then i have done more laps of the route than most people. Its my training ground as i don't live too far away. Speedgoats are a blast for this race. If you havent done a lap there yet then i would highly recommend you do one. It will make things easier for you. James Elson expects me to attempt the WW100 again next year, so i will have to see how my fitness is closer to the time as its very tough. If you want any advice on these just let me know, I'll be more than happy to help.
What exactly are those oranges boxes? I assume some sort of tracker. Does it store your trail data or does it transmit you location in real time to some receiver?
The orange boxes on our backpacks are trackers. They monitor runners movements and locations, sending information to a map tracking page in real time so the organisers and friends/family can see how you’re getting on. They also make a time note of when you reach each checkpoint and this information is all available in the results page (I put this in the vid description). I believe they’re also used by the organizers to check everyone is on the right course or for safety e.g. someone stopping in the night section for a very long time. They get strapped on during registration and are taken off your backpack within 10 seconds of you crossing the line.
Stunned and amazed! Way to stay strong and get the job done! You just gave me even more of a push toward trying my first ultra! Congratulations! Keep pushing!
Thanks very much! It was pretty grueling due to my abysmal choice of shoes but all learning and experience for a better 100 in future. Best of luck with your first ultra, I’m sure you will smash it. Thanks again!
Cheers Ben! It was definitely the hardest run I've ever done, that's for sure! Relief when it was over haha. Yeah, Mike's words of wisdom were inspiring 😂
Thank you very much! Yes it feels amazing to tick the 100 milestone off my list especially as I had failed the Thames path 100 earlier this year! Thanks for watching and good luck with your running mate
Cheers James! Was a fantastic feeling to finally cross the line of a 100 after my initial fail, even if it wasn’t as fast as I would have liked. The hills are relentless and the 6 miles after Detling is a killer!
Congratulations on the outstanding achievement. That heat was a killer, well done for battling through. Great cause as well. Also 'who let the dogs out!!' Great video as well, really capture the motions of an epic event, South Downs next year right!!
Thanks so much mate! The heat was really intense that day but happy to have gritted my teeth and carried on. Haha the dogs were definitely not happy to see me. Not sure on the South Downs Way yet; it’s a possibility! I do have the Thames Path 100 booked though to get my revenge for not finishing so that will be a gooden. Good to briefly meet you at the aid stations too
congratulations, monumental run! looked like a hot days for sure! and i was wondering during the vid, wth are you running in wildcross 2s?? i've got the gtx version, but for running in snow and serious mud, great in winter. props for tuffing it out, these are a serious handicap.
Thanks very much, it was boiling but glad to have pushed through it. I was asking myself the same question about 40 miles in, those shoes were very painful and I regretted wearing them. Luckily, I had some nice foamy and flexible New Balances at mile 82 which I changed into but by then the damage was done. Massive learning curve for me, will be making sure to think about the shoes in the future. Apparently Hoka do some comfortable trail shoes
Congratulations Craig - superb effort . It was very tough out there but you adapted to everything thrown at you! I finished a while after you but relate totally to how hard it was and how good those marshals were ! 👊🏃🏻♂️🏁
Thanks Michael! It was such a tough day, agreed. I was just glad to have finished come the end of the race. I seriously thought about DNF'ing during the night section because of my shoes causing so many problems but I was very happy when I learnt my brother decided unexpectedly to pace me from Bluebell to the finish line; kept me sane throughout the last quarter! Well done for your effort, congratulations for finishing. What a brutal course!
Cheers Jamin! I’m in awe of your time to be fair, so fast. Hope you had a good race. My feet and ankles were messed up but I put it down to the shocking choice of shoes I wore (Salomon speedcross 2s). I’m gonna get some hoka speedgoats that my bro wears and apparently they’ve got nice spongy soles and a nice upper mesh etc. the energy gels were good for me as I couldn’t eat any solids! Cheers for watching mate. I’m doing the wendover woods 50 and the TP100 next so maybe see you on course shortly
Thanks very much! It's kinesiology tape which is like a stretchy, sticky and thin tape. Many athletes have used it for years and it's allegedly good for inflamation, pain and supporting muscles during movement. I had some mild plantar fasciitis prior to the run so I taped up first thing in the morning before start to try and alleviate the pain and give some support to the foot. I was re-taping at the 82 mile mark as I knew that the next section was going to be particularly gruelling with lots of hiking, hills and tricky terrain. I haven't actually read any scientific research on the tape so I would take all of the above with a grain of salt but, from my anecdotal experience, I feel that it's been helpful for this issue and for alleviating ankle pain before.
@@runningcafe1 thanks, I thought the gaffer tape was some little known blister prevention technique 😁. I'd try anything as I blister quite badly after 4-5 hours
@@Southwesterner1986 I’m with you on the blistering! This time, I tried using some body glide on my feet and toes and I only got 2 blisters during the whole race which weren’t that bad. Usually, I have like 5 blisters or so and they’re quite big/painful so was happy with that. I didn’t have my body glide at Detling (the point where I added the tape) so I just used some Vaseline and seemed to help stop the chafing/rubbing in my shoe. Might be something to try!
@@runningcafe1 thanks. I've recently switched to wider 'EE' width shoes, using compeed plasters on problem areas before I start & also baby powder on feet & in socks. Worked quite well on a recent 40km. Fingers crossed it holds up on a 100km in a few weeks time
@@Southwesterner1986 best of luck for the 100km man. Let me know how it goes if that’s okay as I’m interested in anything that reduces chaffing and blistering on my feet as I do suffer from it quite badly sometimes
Thank you! That’s unfortunate for your mate but I completely understand that, I was thinking about doing a DNF during the night section it was so tough out there so fair play to him for giving it a go! Hope the 50 was good. I’ve just signed up to the Wendover Woods 50 in November, should be a gooden
Thanks very much Phil, I was chuffed to have finished it and I agree it does sound pretty bonkers to say you're running a 100 miles! Us runners are a mental bunch. Cheers for watching fella
@@runningcafe1 Your welcome. Ive got my eye on something called "Fast packing" next year which is a combination of running and back packing. I realise that im not that bothered about entering many races but I am interested in long distance running adventures!
@@trailrunningphil That's sounds like a wicked idea mate, combining travel and running. If you film any of the runs/adventures, I'd be well up for checking them out
@@runningcafe1 My aim is to run the Offa's Dyke Footpath in around 5 days and I will document my build up to that with testing out kit and my experiences getting into it.....or perhaps not enjoying it?!!! 🤣
Honestly, I get bored at any distance over 10k, so to keep your focus at that distance, not to mention the physical and mental challenges in top, is mind blowing to me!
@@MikeOnslow Haha, I know what you mean and to be honest I am the same to an extent. When on road with pretty similiar terrain / surroundings, I almost always have headphones in for music, a podcast or an audiobook. With this race, though, the trail and route changed pretty significantly constantly so I had to pay attention on where I was going and it was much more 'entertaining' than just running down the same looking stretch of road. That being said, I did listen to music for a good 20 or so miles!
Brilliant stuff mate. I can't believe you didn't mention your shoes and feet during the race. I would've been moaning my head off 😄 Well done for finishing the 100. Thank goodness for unexpected pacers. Keep smashing it fella 👍🏻🏃♂️
Thanks very much Mark. The shoes really were the worst part of the race for me and my left foot is still in considerable pain even 3 days after. The surprise pacer was a definite highlight, probably would have started hallucinating in the night section if not! Cheers for watching fella
Amazing work Craig, to finish your first 100, after the disappointment of Thames Path. Always fun to see UA-camr runners rocking up at the same race. You, @30somethingMike and Dave from @FilmMyTrailRun and probably others.....with me filming the finish line antics!
Thanks very much Stephen, was very chuffed to have crossed the line after the Thames Path 100 fail in May. Looks like that 100 miler defeated us both! I'll be back next May to take it on for a 2nd time and hopefully cross the finish line.
Yeah, great to have so many UA-camrs documenting their experiences of this great and absolutely brutal course. Do you reckon there'll ever be a Film My Run vid for the NDW100?
Saw you at the finish line, looked like you were enjoying yourself!
@@runningcafe1 Thames Path totally screwed me the first time I tried it. Managed to get it done second time of asking. I' doing the Grand Slam next year so I'll have a second attempt at NDW way and I'll definitely be taking the camera! Feels like a long way off yet though!
@@runningcafe1 Thames Path absolutely killed me the first time. Managed to get it done second time around. I'm doing the Grand Slam next year so I can have a second crack at NDW then and yes I'll take the camera and see what I get! You should have come and said hi at the end. Although I imagine you just wanted to sleep!
Craig, what’s the orange thing taped to
Your bag strap at the top? A charger? Compass?
It's a tracking device so that people can track your location and progress online as youi go through the race. Also, the organisers use it to ensure participant safety and I have heard of them being used to disqualify if they've cheated. Very useful if you're spectating!
For Centurion races, you get given one and it's strapped to your bag at registration
@@runningcafe1 oh right! That’s very cool
Well done to you Craig. I was in the same boat years ago. I failed at Detling and then for 1 full year it eats you up and you have to make things right which i did. I remembered your video last year and i was cheering on the runners at the top of Box hill and i saw you. As always every year the NDW100 is so hot and you did everything right. If i may give you some advice....1) you can buy a really small bodyglide or squirrels nut butter. Don't put it in your drop bag. When i first failed the NDW it was because of the worst chaffing imaginable. Since that day i have never had the issue and if i ever feel the start of something then its so easily to take it out and deal with it in the dark when nobody is near. 2) Footwear, Give Hoka speedgoats a try. Super padded. My number one pair of shoes and after i finish a 100 miler my feet are normally perfect. Even the next day. As for gels, don't worry about what people think. If it works for you then good. There may be the odd race it wont and at least you can deal with that at an aid station. Well done to your bother also. Always good to have a pacer but if you don't get one then team up with another runner later on. They will be grateful aswell. It's not just chatting to help with sleep deprivation and boredom but 2 head torches are better than 1 and also come to gates then 1 can open and 1 can close. Anyway enjoy the buckle and the iconic shirt and i'll hopefully say hi to you on another Centurion race one day.
Thanks for this really useful and detailed comment Andy. Nice of you to be out there supporting the runners at the top of Box Hill! Fantastic work for managing to arrive at Detling for your NDW attempt. By the time I arrived there, I was like an extra out of a Zombie film so that's a massive achievement in its own right. It's great that you managed to put it right 1 year later, which is what I intend to do by running the Thames Path 100 again next May. It does eat away at you, doesn't it?
Your advice is sound and spot on, I will definitely be getting a small Bodyglide to keep on me at all times in ultras from now on. The chaffing luckily was non-existent on my body, but I needed some kind of lubricant for my feet which were in a world of pain thanks to my shocking choice of shoes that I wore. Funnily enough, my brother (who also does pretty long ultras) has only ever worn Hoka Speedgoats and he can't speak highly enough of them so I will be getting a pair very shortly. It's good to have another recommendation about this shoe from an experienced runner!
Agreed regarding the nutrition. If it works, it works, but obviously you need to adapt and change to what your body says on race day.
The 'buddying up' tip is a good shout. No doubt I would have teamed up with another runner during the night section if my brother hadn't stepped in.
I'm doing the Wendover Woods 50 miler and the Thames Path 100 next year, so if you're running one of those then I shall see you then!
Thanks again for watching.
@@runningcafe1 Yes, i think you will love the Speedgoats. They are an awesome shoe. As for TP100 and WW50 i have to laugh. I've done TP100 6 times...failed the first and then finished it 5 times in a row. Its my favourite. Some people struggle with it as its flat but i just love looking at the houses along the course that i could never afford! As for WW50 the first time i did it i hated it, since then i have done more laps of the route than most people. Its my training ground as i don't live too far away. Speedgoats are a blast for this race. If you havent done a lap there yet then i would highly recommend you do one. It will make things easier for you. James Elson expects me to attempt the WW100 again next year, so i will have to see how my fitness is closer to the time as its very tough. If you want any advice on these just let me know, I'll be more than happy to help.
What exactly are those oranges boxes? I assume some sort of tracker. Does it store your trail data or does it transmit you location in real time to some receiver?
The orange boxes on our backpacks are trackers. They monitor runners movements and locations, sending information to a map tracking page in real time so the organisers and friends/family can see how you’re getting on. They also make a time note of when you reach each checkpoint and this information is all available in the results page (I put this in the vid description). I believe they’re also used by the organizers to check everyone is on the right course or for safety e.g. someone stopping in the night section for a very long time.
They get strapped on during registration and are taken off your backpack within 10 seconds of you crossing the line.
Well done, great achievement. Not sure that cows are “fellas” or “chaps” really though 😂
Thanks! I think I was getting slightly delirious at that point 😅
@@runningcafe1 😆😆😆
Goosebumps at the end Craig 😊
Ah, you legend mate. Thanks for giving it a watch 👌
Stunned and amazed! Way to stay strong and get the job done! You just gave me even more of a push toward trying my first ultra! Congratulations! Keep pushing!
Thanks very much! It was pretty grueling due to my abysmal choice of shoes but all learning and experience for a better 100 in future. Best of luck with your first ultra, I’m sure you will smash it. Thanks again!
Huge kudos to you Craig! Thank you for taking us along on this epic adventure. Great to see the legend that is Mike! 😎🤘
Cheers Ben! It was definitely the hardest run I've ever done, that's for sure! Relief when it was over haha. Yeah, Mike's words of wisdom were inspiring 😂
Well done Craig!! Bet it feels amazing to get the 100 miler done!!
Looks brutal, but I’ll have to put it on my bucket list 😬
Thank you very much! Yes it feels amazing to tick the 100 milestone off my list especially as I had failed the Thames path 100 earlier this year! Thanks for watching and good luck with your running mate
Hey, great work slaying those demons! You really captured what the relentless hills are like on the NDW 🙂
Cheers James! Was a fantastic feeling to finally cross the line of a 100 after my initial fail, even if it wasn’t as fast as I would have liked. The hills are relentless and the 6 miles after Detling is a killer!
Congratulations on the outstanding achievement. That heat was a killer, well done for battling through. Great cause as well. Also 'who let the dogs out!!'
Great video as well, really capture the motions of an epic event, South Downs next year right!!
Thanks so much mate! The heat was really intense that day but happy to have gritted my teeth and carried on. Haha the dogs were definitely not happy to see me. Not sure on the South Downs Way yet; it’s a possibility! I do have the Thames Path 100 booked though to get my revenge for not finishing so that will be a gooden. Good to briefly meet you at the aid stations too
congratulations, monumental run! looked like a hot days for sure!
and i was wondering during the vid, wth are you running in wildcross 2s?? i've got the gtx version, but for running in snow and serious mud, great in winter. props for tuffing it out, these are a serious handicap.
Thanks very much, it was boiling but glad to have pushed through it.
I was asking myself the same question about 40 miles in, those shoes were very painful and I regretted wearing them. Luckily, I had some nice foamy and flexible New Balances at mile 82 which I changed into but by then the damage was done. Massive learning curve for me, will be making sure to think about the shoes in the future. Apparently Hoka do some comfortable trail shoes
Congratulations Craig - superb effort . It was very tough out there but you adapted to everything thrown at you! I finished a while after you but relate totally to how hard it was and how good those marshals were ! 👊🏃🏻♂️🏁
Thanks Michael! It was such a tough day, agreed. I was just glad to have finished come the end of the race. I seriously thought about DNF'ing during the night section because of my shoes causing so many problems but I was very happy when I learnt my brother decided unexpectedly to pace me from Bluebell to the finish line; kept me sane throughout the last quarter!
Well done for your effort, congratulations for finishing. What a brutal course!
Well done again & really strong finish! 💪🏻
Great watch. That course always plays hard on the feet and ankles. I’m with you on sticking with gels, works fine fine for me also. Well done.
Cheers Jamin! I’m in awe of your time to be fair, so fast. Hope you had a good race. My feet and ankles were messed up but I put it down to the shocking choice of shoes I wore (Salomon speedcross 2s). I’m gonna get some hoka speedgoats that my bro wears and apparently they’ve got nice spongy soles and a nice upper mesh etc.
the energy gels were good for me as I couldn’t eat any solids! Cheers for watching mate. I’m doing the wendover woods 50 and the TP100 next so maybe see you on course shortly
Good job sir!
Enjoy the recovery.
Look forward to the next challenge whenever that maybe.
Thanks very much, it was a fun race. Plenty of more challenges to come 🤘
Well done sir! Very well done…
Thanks!
Great video and well done.
Cheers Chris!
Amazing achievement 👍 are you using gaffer type on your feet at 27:22????
Thanks very much!
It's kinesiology tape which is like a stretchy, sticky and thin tape. Many athletes have used it for years and it's allegedly good for inflamation, pain and supporting muscles during movement. I had some mild plantar fasciitis prior to the run so I taped up first thing in the morning before start to try and alleviate the pain and give some support to the foot. I was re-taping at the 82 mile mark as I knew that the next section was going to be particularly gruelling with lots of hiking, hills and tricky terrain.
I haven't actually read any scientific research on the tape so I would take all of the above with a grain of salt but, from my anecdotal experience, I feel that it's been helpful for this issue and for alleviating ankle pain before.
@@runningcafe1 thanks, I thought the gaffer tape was some little known blister prevention technique 😁. I'd try anything as I blister quite badly after 4-5 hours
@@Southwesterner1986 I’m with you on the blistering! This time, I tried using some body glide on my feet and toes and I only got 2 blisters during the whole race which weren’t that bad. Usually, I have like 5 blisters or so and they’re quite big/painful so was happy with that. I didn’t have my body glide at Detling (the point where I added the tape) so I just used some Vaseline and seemed to help stop the chafing/rubbing in my shoe. Might be something to try!
@@runningcafe1 thanks. I've recently switched to wider 'EE' width shoes, using compeed plasters on problem areas before I start & also baby powder on feet & in socks. Worked quite well on a recent 40km. Fingers crossed it holds up on a 100km in a few weeks time
@@Southwesterner1986 best of luck for the 100km man. Let me know how it goes if that’s okay as I’m interested in anything that reduces chaffing and blistering on my feet as I do suffer from it quite badly sometimes
Great run.congrats my mate dnfd.i have done the 50 only
Thank you! That’s unfortunate for your mate but I completely understand that, I was thinking about doing a DNF during the night section it was so tough out there so fair play to him for giving it a go! Hope the 50 was good. I’ve just signed up to the Wendover Woods 50 in November, should be a gooden
Great job. That’s an amazing achievement. Congrats
Thanks Glen!
Dude that was great to watch and congratulations!
Thanks very much!!
Well done! Another great video! 👍
Thank you sir!
@@runningcafe1 Are you on strava?
@@jamesbarnes9469 sure am! ‘Craig Barden’ on strava, the strava link is in the description for the vid too
Congratulations on your first 100 (103)!
Thanks!
A fantastic achievement Craig. Really amazing. I can't quite get my head around doing a 100 mile event yet so you have my full respect my man! :)
Thanks very much Phil, I was chuffed to have finished it and I agree it does sound pretty bonkers to say you're running a 100 miles! Us runners are a mental bunch. Cheers for watching fella
@@runningcafe1 Your welcome. Ive got my eye on something called "Fast packing" next year which is a combination of running and back packing. I realise that im not that bothered about entering many races but I am interested in long distance running adventures!
@@trailrunningphil That's sounds like a wicked idea mate, combining travel and running. If you film any of the runs/adventures, I'd be well up for checking them out
@@runningcafe1 My aim is to run the Offa's Dyke Footpath in around 5 days and I will document my build up to that with testing out kit and my experiences getting into it.....or perhaps not enjoying it?!!! 🤣
Well deserved victory! Well done! Awesome video.
Thanks so much, I was very happy to finish!
Well done mate.
Great running and great recap. Well done 👍
Cheers Dan!
Brilliant running. Super video!
Thank you very much!
Well done Sir 👏
Thank you!
Great video again!
Thank you!
Insane, Craig, fair play! 👏👏👏
Cheers Mike!
Honestly, I get bored at any distance over 10k, so to keep your focus at that distance, not to mention the physical and mental challenges in top, is mind blowing to me!
@@MikeOnslow Haha, I know what you mean and to be honest I am the same to an extent. When on road with pretty similiar terrain / surroundings, I almost always have headphones in for music, a podcast or an audiobook. With this race, though, the trail and route changed pretty significantly constantly so I had to pay attention on where I was going and it was much more 'entertaining' than just running down the same looking stretch of road. That being said, I did listen to music for a good 20 or so miles!