Thanks to watching both parts! You can see this full, unedited stream on my Patreon. It includes an additional reaction and an unedited version of my story about Arielle. www.patreon.com/posts/full-arielle-60820373
Awesome video but also jeze those poor randoms who had dating profiles posted and also Arielle's gross tooth baring grin like it's oddly vicious and not friendly looking to her "friend" imo. Also Blanchard is just mad transbians won't fuck him and that more women he finds "unnatracive" exist and thus offend him so he made a weird pseudoscience "cope" as the yoofs are saying. Also the chaser /transphobe circles overlap loads on the venn diagram.
Blanchard has been debunked as a pseudoscientist and his theories are old and outdated and hard to scientifically replicate. therefore his is no longer seen as a valid scientific contributor in the field of trans issues.
My biggest thing is like, cis women dress up to feel sexy all the time. They dress up for the partners but also like, what about when u just wanna feel urself? Does a cos woman dressing up to look sexy count? What about nb afab ppl? I HATE the feeling of looking feminine most of the time. It makes my skin crawl to do a lot of girly things so I could never imagine putting in a silky dress & heels to turn ANYONE on. Do I not count even tho I am Sapphic? I am attracted to women that dress up feminine but I don't. Her logic is so backwards & specific, I can't believe some women, trans or cis, will sit there & let her define th or what they have a right to look like. Gender is a performance & Arielle is sitting out in the parking lot complaining about how she just doesn't get it.
As a cis woman, I think heels were meant for the bedroom (for height issues). I don’t wear them to walk. I have a collection of running shoes and comforts colorful shoes that I love. I never wear makeup and rarely get my nails done. I just don’t have the time and find it boring (I do my own nails sometimes which can be interesting). I feel more feminine in running clothes or jeans than a skirt or dress. When you are comfortable, that’s when you can feel sexy. Especially with the right person 🙂🤓 I don’t like when people define femininity as some Stepford Wife standard that just doesn’t exist anymore. Being feminine and being a woman is very individualistic because we are individuals and should be treated as such. That’s the point of feminism. Men can be whatever they want, so should women. Equal rights, equal consequences, equal pay. It’s so simple, but some people still don’t get it.
14:20 they also completely ignore the idea that perhaps some of these trans women who present as being more masc are not in safe enough environments to fully shave, wear makeup, buy new gender affirming clothes, etc. It isn't even considered.
it's because they live in a fantasy world where every single person on the planet is trans-accepting and that only _they_ are brave enough to speak out against the "trans activists"
Imagine... low quality psychology that ignores social factors becoming popular among laypeople for the wrong reasons... novel phenomenon! /s (sorry I'm a bitter sociologist and lesbian, and i'm so, so tired of blanchard & scarcella)
if I was a trans woman and I come out after I've had a full beard for years I'd be a little scared to shave it off I get this from the fact I was scared to cut off my long hair as a trans man (though it's not needed for someone to be a woman, people are saying these things about women that choose not to shave)
the photos she was sending included lots of people who didn't even claim to be women. and you can't fully know a person or their gender based on pictures you find online. And it's not like she knows if any of those people are attracted to themselves as women! Literally imagine if any of those trans women had T4T in their bios. Imagine!
Could the people that are often included in these videos sue these creators? Would they have a case against them? If some random person on UA-cam used photos from my dating app profile on a video pretty much bashing me I would at the very least wanna know how they have such nerve lol
@@helena4440 no, I don't think it violates fair use guidelines. It's like those articles you see on Facebook or just on Google, they haven't actually spoken to the person they're talking about but they've seen the story on their social media and just took it and ran. I imagine the same applies here. I wouldn't be happy if my pic was used but I doubt they could do anything about it.
I keep noticing her and Blaire White and people like that using people who are not trans women and are not even in the video in their thumbnails. Like, Blaire White used a photo of Little Bear, a bearded lady with PCOS, in one of her thumbnails, and Little Bear is never even mentioned in the video, and she put neopronouns Little Bear doesn't even use under the photo - Little Bear, afaik, goes by she/her. If there really is this wave of men who pretend to be trans but don't "put in the effort", why do they need to use photos of enbies and female bearded ladies and so forth? Some cis women have beards, it's a thing that happens, and someone needs to tell these people that googling "woman with beard" or whatever, to find a photo for their thumbnail, is proving the point that their rhetoric is hurting gnc cis women, intersex people, etc, on top of hurting trans people.
I guess it goes to show that transphobia has a way of affecting cis women who "don't look like women." It's so awful that Blaire would tell lies about and make fun of a woman with a medical condition, but it isn't all that surprising, knowing her.
13:40 not to mention that because transitioning is so difficult, Arielle is basically saying that trans women who don't pass should be reclusive and miserable in their bodies until they pass. can't a non passing trans person feel themselves??? can't we have an ounce of joy of our bodies and faces the way they are without being labeled as p3rv3rts??
I'm a cis-gender queer man and I feel sexy being a man. Is that autoandrophilia? I look at my hairy forearms and it makes me feel hot. This is also true for the men I date. I like my body they way I like my partners' bodies. I feel like thats not weird.
It's normal... If people don't have self confidence how can anybody hook up sucessfully???? I'm gonna stop thinking about this video bc it's driving me crazy 😆
that makes me feel better as a transmasc then about how I feel when thinking of transitioning, though a lot of that may just be excitement, I can't tell, I have a detachment from my emotions and such
Also you have to consider that not everyone can afford to transition soo some of these people may have immense dysphoria and want to medically transition but don't have the money and/or the support to do soo. There are some people who never medically transition for many reasons such as money problems, no support or health issues.
thats what makes putting them in the video particularly violent in my eyes; to be able to transition is a privilege. to put images of someone existing in their body as it is in a video to shame and pathologize them for not looking different is already indefensible, but with the additional layer that these people may be experiencing dysphoria and are putting themselves out there despite it? miss arielle is going to arihell
As a gay guy who has been a male since birth (not that all gay people are this) I am sexually attracted to myself. Does this somehow invalide my gender? No. Neither does it invalidate a trans person who may actually be attracted to themselves once transitioning.
as a nb lesbian I honestly don't understand straight cis people being weird about "being attracted to yourself." I think it's kinda weird they aren't. Like you really don't look in the mirror and think 'yeah I'd hit that'?? (excluding ppl of any gender/sexuality with body image issues, totally get that & sympathize.)
@@sylvia5400 Well for me as a straight cis woman I have body dysmorphia so it’s kind a hard for me to actually find myself sexually attractive for the most part I can find my face appealing but my body no.
I'm aromantic and asexual, and have never considered myself attractive, so I can't relate. The irony is that Blanchard would say the reason I'm asexual is that the autogynephilia is so overpowering that it rules out any attraction to others, which is an assumption based on not talking to any actual asexual trans people. I'm not attracted to anyone, especially not myself, though I can _recognize_ that certain people would be attractive in the eyes of others.
"Why trans women and men transition?" Arielle asks her guest who is trans and then proceeds to not let her guest answer. Also I know lot of trans women who tried to battle their gender dysphoria by presenting ultra masculine before they realized that they are trans. One of my best friends described it as feeling "Im not manly enough/Im not real man" so she grow a beard, got some "manly man" tattoos, joined the gym, got riped but that feeling never went away and then she met another trans person and realized that she cant feel like man because she is not a man. And after that is transitioning even more difficult.
Yep that's pretty common. Unfortunately i've dated a lot of people who presented as hyper masc men who later realized they were trans women. Quite sad.
As a cis butch lesbian, the whole "femininity" argument is bunk when myself and other masc lesbians have been a part of the lesbian community from the start, but they don't actually care about us. I mean the bathroom debacle has brought on people who give me second looks. So that's why I'm always in solidarity with my trans siblings because we have far more in common than i EVER would with feminine cis women.
@@Sara-uq6km For real! A trans man on twitter wrote about his experience in finding gender joy related to his presentation, not just in gender affirming surgeries but small things that you get to make the CHOICE to wear and present (like hair cuts, clothes, piercings, etc), and I have never felt something so relatable to that. Finding my masculinity made me feel like me, and it all came together with my orientation, and discovering the butch/femme community/relationships.
I have been misgendered since middle school cause I guess when I started dressing myself how I wanted, I presented to masculine for people. As you said as a queer WOC, I relate to trans people far more than angry bitter privileged white lesbians lmao
So apparently there's a term for me (as a cis, Heteroromantic Demiséxual woman) being attracted to myself crossdressing as a fancy dude in a suit at Comicon. That makes me feel a lot better about my gender identity 😅
I bet you look like a million dollars, too! PS tie your own bow tie and French cuffs all the way. Shined shoes the finishing touch! When walking with your Lady you walk closer to the street.
There might be a term. But it isn't autogynephilia, if you mean that. That is reserved only for wanting to look feminine for sexual pleasure. Gyne is Ancient Greek for 'woman'.
Autoandrophilia. I'm the same way. Absolutely feel so sexy wearing men's clothes with a touch of red lipstick.. I look hot af and my partners all have loved it. They're men btw, but most were bi haha
Ok, as a lesbian who's been around wlw-specific dating apps before-- straight men fishing for a fantasy lesbian gf don't feel the need to pretend they're women. They show up beard-out, holding a catfish in their pfp and saying their name is Chad. They aren't clever enough to try and pretend. Leave trans women alone ffs....
Entitled cis men don't believe they have to look/act like women anyway. In their minds, they're owed for their masculine superiority. Bask in the light of my catfish, females.
@@MalcamPrasad i mean doesnt your statement exactly display why you’re the problem? why are trans people a monolith in your eyes? ive never gotten clocked nor seen as a trans person and i navigate the world as a cissy, yet im grouped into this monolithic idea of how trans ppl are to be perceived. its so funny like it shows how chronically online you are
@@MalcamPrasad like my transness isnt remotely part of my life except the fact i have implanted estrogen pellets every few months. that’s it. yet somehow its to gauge my attraction? LOL.
@@MalcamPrasad what spaces are you at where this is happening? I’ve used tinder and OkCupid and neither of them let’s anybody talk to me unless I swipe on them first. In real life I’ve never had a transwoman come up to me in a lesbian/gay club and be pushy with me if I’m not intersted in them (in fact I’ve never had a transwoman approach me at all). None of us have the one universal experience but I’m another lesbian here who seriously doubts that this is a huge issue. Now actual straight cis unicorn hunters in lesbian spaces - I’ve seen/experienced that probably a dozen times.
The weird irony or purposeful whatever of arielle saying "well isn't it offensive to say 'dress like a woman'" and then policing ppls gender expression/sexuality based on how much they look like a woman.....
I lost my best friend over this bs. She kept going on about how these transwomen (absolutely not the word she used) were "threats". Anyways, Friendus deletus
i had forgotten Arielle existed, seeing this made me double check and realize i was still subscribed to her from like 10+ years ago when i thought i was a lesbian (turns out i'm pan and non-binary) and she was one of the few lesbian creators at the time and she seemed cool and wasn't so off the deep end. feels pretty gross that i was still accidentally subbed to her. wonder how many of her subs are from the same situation
The funny thing about this "argument" for autogynephilia is that it's only discussed in regards to trans women, so much so it's in the name. Where's the theory about "autoandrophilia" for trans men, or "autoandrogynephilia(?)" for non-binary people? It's so perplexing that this breed of transphobia is so hyper-fixated on one form of gender identity, so much so that is pretty much ignores all other gender identities except for cis men and cis/trans women.
Oh, Blanchard did try to sneak that word into the second revision of the DSM-V so as "not to be seen as sexist." This wasn't based on any empirical evidence or scientific study, just his pulling it out of his ass. The final revision took the word back out, but left AGP in there. I didn't know that was how science works.
I've heard people speculate that it is due to entrenched patriarchy. In their mind it is understandable why a woman would want to pretend to be a male, as that is a better position, but to desire to by a woman is perplexing to them so they're more likely to attack it as abnormal. It's transcends trans people too, as masculine lesbians dressing in men's clothes have been accepted much more readily than feminine men dressing in women's clothes. Wanting to be a man makes sense in their sexist mind, but wanting to be a womanly!?
Honestly? I've actually heard stuff like "trans man just fetishize gay men so much they actually want to live in a yaoi fantasy irl", "this [trans man] looks like a woman's fantasy version of a guy, not like a real man", etc A LOT. It's probably the main source of my internalised homophobia. Buuut I've heard that stuff almost exclusively from women (often queer women). So I guess they just can't influence the general discourse as much as straight man do. But in predominantly afab russian geek communities it's A THING. To a point where a local anti-trans insult is to call a trans guy a "yaoi prince" lmao. Also yeah it's always "afab trans people have a fetish for male GAYNESS" and literally never just "afab trans people fetishize being a man in general". The state of being a man is mostly seen as this basic, boring thing, the idea of it being seen as exotic and alluring is too strange for most people, they can't even imagine that as a possibility
@@underjoyed9504 Man, if they say that about hetero trans men, that's extremely funny. Can you imagine? "Ugh, you're just trying to look like a woman's fantasy of a man!" " Why... yes. Yes, I am, actually."
Ariel’s like one step away from accusing Rupaul’s Drag Race of invading women’s spaces because she found a random tweet from a cis lesbian saying she has a weird crush on Sasha Velour.
To be fair, since there's five gorgeous women among the Season 14 contestants, Arielle should get braced for seeing even more sapphics saying they've got crushes on drag queens...
I'm a Cis guy. I'm hot, I feel aroused by the fact that I'm hot. I see myself in the mirror and take pictures to send to other guys and thinking they'll enjoy it arouses me. Am I autoandrophilic? Don't know, maybe I guess. Am I a predator? No. Am I not a "real man"? Why would a trans man be less valid just because he experiences the same thing as I? It's baffling
Haha I am cis-bisexual and I fear this might be me but I don't want to admit it as the case because it sounds strange. I am quite attractive and I think I get more enjoyment from teasing the opposite sex than I get from the actual opposite sex. I think my biggest kink is teasing and being slutty and I like to look at myself perhaps a bit too much.
@@nukiradio Iunno about that. I'm gay and a hell of a lot of couples I've met and seen online look like twins. I think sometimes it's just more obvious when someone is the same gender/presentation.
Arielle: you can't "dress like a woman" that's so misogynistic >:^( Also Arielle: these trans women don't present feminine enough so they're fetishists What do you want Arielle???
99% of the people she shows, however, aren't "Trans-women". They are nonbinary. So it's "These non-binary people who don't identify as women/feminine, don't present feminine enough so they're fetishists". Which is even more absurd...
@@onijester56 honestly like. As a nonbinary person, there is just literally nothing one can do to please the cis. If you present too much as a binary gender, you're not valid, if you present androgynous you're somehow reinforcing gender roles too, personally I've just dyed my hair rainbow and chosen to become the meme.
@@wghmnb9136 bisch, stop acting like you're everybody's mum, let people keep their 'self-control in check' if they want to. check yourself and keep that checking to yourself.
I think it should also be noted that a lot of dating apps don’t even have a nonbinary option- you have to choose either male or female. So, my guess is that a lot of the people they’re pulling from dating apps don’t even identify as trans women, but instead see themselves as feminine leaning nonbinary people.
The part of the discussion about "it's weird being attracted to yourself" seems so odd to me. We're just gonna ignore the fact that "would you fuck your clone" has been a thought experiment people have memed for years and say they would (or they wouldn't because it's "too gay").
@@ascendednightingale2456 is it though? I think it depends how far you take it. if a person saw someone who they found attractive, and then in themselves tried to apply some of those traits -- probably via style or something -- because they find the traits sexy, period, it wouldn't be odd to then find yourself attractive...
The way the clip Arielle uses contradicts her whole thesis… like, I disagree with the guy’s theories, but Blanchard makes the claim that people with AGP can be transgender, and then Arielle goes on to make a video about how people with AGP are fake trans women or whatever. Arielle’s videos are so incoherent & it’s pretty obvious that she just includes certain buzzwords to please her radfem and conservative audiences.
“Corporate wants you to find the difference between these two pictures” *Sexist old man whose stuck in the 1950s, demands women not have one (1) hair on their leg but refuses to take a shower, thinks anyone other than a tradwife is an evil witch who eats babies* *Terf* “These are the same pictures.”
This! Also, this expectation of femininity from lesbians/bi women in wlw spaces by Arielle is historically unaccurate and in other ways very, very wrong. I'm a quite butch/masc-presenting afab person dating a woman. My partner identifies as a lesbian, but she does not mind my masculine presentation. In fact she's quite into it, lol.
"listed themselves as trans women" And many aren't saying they're trans women. Many were non binary. We don't even know if they were attracted to women.
I so deeply appreciate Kat defending non-passing trans women even though she passes herself/used to be stealth. Not every passing trans person is willing to stick up for trans people who don’t pass for whatever reason, it’s refreshing to see someone defending them when they could easily get away with shitting on them.
These folks don't understand that uhh... You don't have to be hyper-feminine to be a woman.. gender *expression* isn't gender in and of itself. And there are certainly cis woman who probably don't technically "pass" either. That doesn't make them not women. Reducing someone else's identity to how they look is so terrible :((. The trans lady in the video is seriously serving Blair White energy.
literally im TECHNICALLY cis (i only am cause im told to i literally dont understand gender) but ive gotten clocked or told im actually a dude or other weird transphobic stuff, its kinda funny how just being a rlly hairy person with 2 x chromosomes and a kinda deep voice makes them mad.
When people repeated Blanchard's study on cis women, 95% of them counted considered autogynephilic. By Blanchard's definition it just means a woman likes her feminine traits and thinks they're hot on some level, which is not something to pathologise
I also think that people might not know that Autosexual/Autoromantic is a thing too and that might also technically skew alot of research using Autogynephilia. Autosexual just means someone who is more attracted to themselves. They may be more comfortable in doing masturbation rather than sex with others but this doesn't mean all won't have sex or do have sex/masturbation. Autoromantics are similar but on the Asexual side of the spectrum. Autosexual and Autoromantic are a spectrum too so I'd imagine people would count this as Autogynephilia despite it might not being Autogynephilia. It sounds more like people just might not know what Autosexual/romantic is and are mixing things around. I don't expect most to know what Autosexual/romantic is but the research should be taking this into account cause it could potentially be skewed in general as well whether for or against any arguments. Also for anyone curious on Autosexual/romantic it does NOT mean narcissism. That's something different and does not mean you're both a narcissist and an autosexual/romantic.
@@meio_feio They mentioned that the study (also a way to easily look up the source) was repeated on cis women right at the start, this is not the gotcha you seem to portray it as.
I wouldn’t say that autogynophilia doesn’t exist but it’s still up to people to label themselves, you don’t get to decide that someone else is faking being trans… also… why should I even care?
The thing about being trans that many people including Ariella don't get is that gender is a part of sexuality, which is a part of our whole beings... if a trans woman is sexually aroused by the idea of her own feminity, how is that different from a ciswoman feeling the same about herself? Btw, my reply isn't directed specifically for you, your comment just made me think
I don't think anyone who doesn't care, should be forced to care. But a lot of women care for reasons we get tired of explaining, and for which we shouldn't even need to explain.
Arielle's issue with trans women feels weirdly personal, as if she was holding a grudge against an attractive woman she once hit on who then turned out to be trans and now she is convinced trans women are invading lesbian spaces. It's bizarre.
To me, the fundamental issue with autogynophillia is that it presumes a cross-gender transformation, despite the fact that, by its own etymology, it could apply to literally anyone. If a cis woman gets a kick from being perceived, treated and desired as hyper-feminine, that's just par for the course, but if a femme-presenting genderqueer person does it, suddenly we needs an ominous medical term to describe it? Not to mention that none of these conversation ever mention autoandrophillia (arousal at one's own image as a hyper-masculine), which happens to be a cartoonishly common trait among cis men. The fact that this debate is only ever deployed to analyse genderqueer folk, with a distinct focus of femme presentation, is extremely telling.
It's because if trans men do something out of perversion or enjoyment, not just because they're (not my words) "confused lesbians" the whole terf rhetoric around trans women being predators, and generally people with male genitalia being predators would crumble.
Pseudo-intellectual "scholars" be like: "this person is having sex or experiences their sexuality in a non cisnormative, heteronormative way? That's bad. Time to make up a label to pathologize it."
@@ifuckedurmom your point stands but OP was talking more about cis men experiencing autoandrophilia, a la Patrick Bateman, to quote an extreme example. Many meathead cis guys, straight and gay, do seem to get off on their own muscular physiques...
Gender critical people: “Actually we’re trying to abolish gender as a construct” Also gender crit ppl: “Woman has beard and therefore cannot be a woman” Also I just realized…. What about cis women….. who do grow facial hair….. from like PCOS…… are they not allowed to be women/lesbians too?
They're allowed to be women/lesbians right after they shave their facial hair. Everyone must conform to the standard visual expression for womanhood. A standard that just so happens to be what is attractive to cis men. I've said it before and I'll say it again. TERFs are not feminists; they're a fifth-column of the patriarchy, violently reasserting the status quo.
I'm actually wanting to abolish the concept of gender, but I'm not into policing others' gender or gender expression. To me, the concept of a sex binary or gender binary does not make sense. There is no foolproof way to define the concepts of a man or a woman. I believe people when they identify as such, whether they be cis or trans, but to me, those categories are very much artificial and culture-related. People can identify as they want, but to me ideas of femininity, masculinity, etc. are just really nebulous and don't make sense. But what do I know, I'm agender lol
@@GeneralBolas TERFs are still feminist much like how tankies are still Communists, and p*dophilic priests are still Christians. You can't "No True Scottsman" people who are inconvenient to a movement out of a movement to avoid having to confront the lack of intersectionality in that movement. Feminists have to explicitly be trans-positive and call out transphobia within the movement, Communists have to be explicitly anti-racist and call out class reductionism in their movement, and Christians have to be explicitly anti-authoritarian and call out abuses of power from within their denominations. Because "TERFs aren't real feminists" is an empty claim when many of them hold seats of power in legal and feminist organizations
Up until a few months ago, I identified as a woman. Throughout my time as a woman, I was told repeatedly by people that if I didn’t shave my facial hair, that I’d be considered “wrong” in some way. So I listened. I always felt down when I had to keep shaving it off, but I didn’t listen to myself. Now, I identify as non-binary/queer and unapologetically keep whatever facial hair I have ^^ and while I’m happy, I’m aware that the hair is softer and finer than it started out as due to all the removals. I regret ever listening to anyone else abt it. Ppl, whether u identify as a woman or otherwise, let yourself have whatever traits u want. Don’t let gc terfs get u down - if u weren’t meant to have “non conforming” traits to choose from, you wouldn’t have the dna to develop them !
as a gay trans dude I know way more trans MEN who get excited by dressing in feminine clothes, actually. They don't get sexually excited by top surgery or hormones, they like looking like a man in women's clothing. It kinda loops back around. also the arguement of trans people erasing lesbians is so funny because all the trans men i know PERSONALLY are gay or bi...
Also, in place of straight trans men, there are lesbian trans women, but terfs don’t like to acknowledge them as lesbians, so they feel like they’re “losing lesbians”
@@andreadamon2197 exactly. Cis lesbians are almost expected to be more masculine or ‘butch’ but if a trans lesbian doesn’t shave themselves from head to toe then they’re not legit? clownery
Yeah but Arielle thinks translebians don't count. That's kind of her main point (granted she never states it directly but at this point she doesn't have to).
@@IshtarNike exactly it’s the same truscum argument of “you’re just following a trend for attention” or “you’re not trying hard enough therefore you’re not trans” and trans people who let these kinds of narratives slide are tHE WORST,,, it’s just transphobia but painted a new color to make some trans people agree with it. Yucky
Autogynophilia reminds me of the time the Spiritual Science Research foundation published an article theorizing homosexuals were possessed by ghosts of the opposite sex
According to Ariel, trans women need to be conventionally feminine or they’re not really trans; but if trans women engage in conventional femininity, then they’re autogynephiles superficially fetishising femininity and being sexist by implying there’s a right and wrong way to be feminine. But also her friend is fine to engage in conventional femininity when it suits her argument, but also she says herself in the video that she doesn’t think there’s such a thing as dressing femininely. Airtight logic. It’s impossible to understand how people could call Ariel’s argument incoherent and motivated by transphobia 🙄
this whole "issue" is so bizarre to me. I just don't see how any of this is even a problem. So some cis men get off on the idea of themselves as women? Understandable. As a cis woman and a lesbian, I do in fact find being a woman incredibly hot. Cis men feeling the same way doesn't affect me tho? Like, go ahead and be drag queens, live your best life, it's not offending or hurting me at all. And if trans women get off on transitioning or just being women, that also is fine and ok. Whether they "pass" or not is just skin-deep nonsense, what matters is if they're happy. Since when is it suddenly a bad thing if someone can say "damn, I'm so sexy!" And on the reverse, why does no one talk about cis women or trans men wrt this stuff? Back when I was younger and still exploring my sexuality, I liked ERPing online as a gay man. I even ended up really asking myself if I was trans bc I enjoyed it so much. The answer was ultimately no, it's just a kink, but how is that kink any different from autogynephilia? Especially when it comes to harming or offending cis men. It just doesn't. That being said, I do agree about cis men invading dating apps for lesbians and/or wlw in general. That's just misogyny tho imho. Men being unable to stand women having their own space, as usual. I don't know how that could ever fairly be policed tho.
How is Arielle a whole ass lesbian and complaining that some trans women aren't feminine when PLENTY of lesbians aren't feminine? I found her videos long ago when I was trying to search for trans lesbian youtubers and her transphobia just turned me away so hard. It was immediate and cruel.
It's funny when you consider how quick the terf-leaning lesbians usually are to say 'you don't have to be a man, you can be a butch woman!' (and to lament about how ~trans ideology~ is "stealing lesbians" but that's another story 🙄)
@Melody Ackerman maybe she is, and she's right to be pissed off when the likes of Riley Dennis say stuff like "if you're a lesbian and won't date a pre op (or even post op) trans woman then you're transphobic" basically saying if the sole reason for not wanting to sleep with someone because they have a penis makes you transphobic, when that's the whole point of being a lesbian. Lesbians don't like penises, there might be the odd one who would but it's usually bi people not full lesbians who would date someone with a penis. What's the problem?
@@melodyvalentine8779 The whole point of being a lesbian is loving women and non-men. You said that Riley included trans women without penises in that context... If your only reason is that they're trans then 🤷♀️. You don't have to date anyone you don't want to or even look at your preferences for any prejudices. Nobody can force you - it just means it isn't the circle for you.
the way arielle talks about trans women on dating apps and attacking them for “not trying to be feminine” enough to fit her satisfaction is SO MUCH the vibes of misogynistic men who just want women to be catering to their attraction…. yuck yuck yuck
This is why I personally find that the worst misogynism to fight isn't the vocal, "I can catch you on it" men doing or saying things (not that that isn't really damn hard already), it's women, hurting themselves and all those around them because they cannot for the life of them step away from the hate they were brought up in. The hate they were conditioned to accept as the norm.
"If you're not actually experiencing gender dysphoria, if you haven't made any changes at all, don't call yourself a lesbian." In other words if you don't perform your gender identity the way I feel comfortable with, you're not valid...
I feel like a big part of Arielle's growth has been her finding an audience in both reactionary anti-SJW types and TERFs. I remember when she used to only focus on trans men but there really is a lot more to be gained from focusing on trans women
Everytime Arielle says autogynophilia I understand "I don't get a filler" and hey girl, you don't have to. Just as you don't have to be transphobic. So maybe stay in your lane, kiss cis women if you're only attracted to them and stop politicizing other people's lifes.
I saw this live and already commented this there but this smells so much of privilege. Not every trans person will be in a position either financially or socially to transition fast or present their gender, especially trans women who have been living as very masc men. The fact that trans women are so often the target of hate crimes just adds to the fact that it's not safe for everyone. Other people don't get to decide if you're really trans or not just because they don't find you attractive.
Ok I don't know how weird this is going to sound.. But well. I am a cis girl who is bi, so I am into women. Sometimes when I see my body in a mirror or something (like before taking a shower) I do think 'damn that's hot', though I do not get aroused. (I don't know if we should judge people who do get aroused at their own image btw...). I don't think there's anything wrong or weird about me finding boobs pretty... because I'm bi. I can't help but think that if I was a trans woman, possible 'autogynephilia' would come into question, when I'm really just queer-. That sucks. This narrative will only stigmatize trans ppl who like their own body/gender presentation, especially if they're queer... It must be confusing for some queer trans women... The fact that this cis lesbian is trying to push that narrative is so disturbing, i can't stand her
Exactly, I think it’s better for someone to love how their body looks rather than to hate it, so if a trans lady (assuming she found out via dysphoria versus euphoria) is overcoming her dysphoria to the point that she finds herself attractive, we should be celebrating that success she is having instead of spreading misinformation that makes her doubt herself and feel bad/weird. I wish people like her would spend their time on something actually useful. It’s nothing short of creepy how people like her dedicate so much energy to tearing down and harming trans women; like go plant a community garden, volunteer at an animal shelter, pick up litter- do anything other than target an already stigmatized group of people for simply... existing, and seeking a more comfortable way to exist. Why is that such an issue for her that she must push this narrative? It’s just so mind boggling tbh
I'm a cis bi girl, too. I have the same experience, and like TMI, but I also can get more turned on when I look at myself when I have sex for example lmao, it probably sounds stupid when you put it into words, but I honestly thought it was like pretty normal, they talk about it as if it was wrong being sexually attracted to yourself, but I don't see how it harms anybody else. Policing sexuality and gender expression to that point is stupid and backwards.
Seeing this makes me feel so much better, because thinking I just had a fetish was one of the things that kept me from realizing I was trans for so long. Hearing that it’s normal and healthy to find yourself attractive makes me feel a lot better
Arielle spends whole video criticizing other queer people's appearances. Terfs are the weakest links. Also I agree as a cis bi woman, cishet men harass me the most. My best relationship from an app was with a trans lesbian too. Must be hard for Arielle to understand that kind of love when she's so busy grading everyone on their gender presentations.
It really annoys me most content around LGBT topics are from people like Arielle. It annoys me that she's perfectly ok with right wing media loving her.
@@wghmnb9136 Well seeing as I was born a female and still identify as a female I don't know what you're talking about. You do know she has fans that aren't trans right?
@@wghmnb9136 I'm just saying assuming I'm trans because the person who made the video is trans is quite a giant leap. Now judging by your comments you don't support trans people or gay people, why would those people want to be part of the right when the right clearly doesn't want them. Makes no sense to me why people like Blair White and Ariella want the right wing types to like them when by your own admission you don't like them
@@wghmnb9136 I'm replying to the original comment. You assuming I'm trans, when I'm actually a straight woman who was born a woman is what got us off track here. Why in the world would anyone want to be a part of a group who openly hates them
This conversation is so particularly uncomfortable to me as an androgynous woman because often time not looking “feminine” enough has kept me out of female spaces as a cisgender woman. And also has gotten me harassed and bullied in female spaces. I also know there’s a long history of cisgender lesbians/bisexual women who are masculine also being discriminated against. Something you’d think she’d be more aware of. I don’t understand why we can’t extend the same Courtesy of understanding to trans women who we deem to be not “feminine” enough. Like literally what does that even mean? TERFS always say this and it’s so weird because is so anti feminism to claim that there’s a way to feminize yourself. I agree with your point on hyper-femininity a lot.
It’s kind of funny that terfs simultaneously decry trans women “sexistly reinforcing gender stereotypes” but also invalidate trans women who aren’t stereotypically “feminine enough”. We can’t win 😂!
@@beatlebob101 biology... male female. Many different looks within either. And some people live with gender disphoria. Thisnis very distressing for them, I d9nt sweet and its very serious
This type of content feels like very old anti sjw videos like, and conservatives was like upset at Conchita Wurst winning eurovision, even though she's a drag queen and not a trans women. It's very tiring.
Conservatives don't understand the difference between a trans man or drag queen so videos like this one appeals to their confusion since basically theyre labeling unfem trans women as just crossdressers. Its really quite gross and harms transwomen because now conservatives will sling around this Autogynephilic word for every transwomen who they dont find pretty or sexy
I`m a cis lesbian and i`d totally do myself, even tho i'm not my type at all , guess i got a fetish according to these ppl. But yeah lets demonize ppl being confident in themselves. Also if I see someone early in transition on a dating app it literally doesnt affect me at all? If im not attracted to them i just swipe past, one second needed, who cares? They still deserve to look for love and affection? appreciate ypu talking about men and couples on lesbians apps, but yeah, nothing to do with trans women, from experience its mostly cishet couples.
Exactly, if you as a cis lesbian don’t want to date trans women, then you’re totally free not to date us. But that doesn’t mean that we should be banned from trying to find a woman (cis or trans, whatever you’re personally into) that is into us
What is the purpose of slapping random photos of trans women that aren't up to Arielle's personal standard of femininity throughout the video? Is it _just_ to be rude? Because I can't think of anything else.
She seems to think trans lesbians who don't fit her beauty standards are basically automatically this weird sex things, instead of people just living their lives.
Plenty of transwomen literally identify as autogynephilic and state that autogynephilia is the main reason they identify as trans, are you accusing them of lying?
@@intrusive-th0t It clearly isn't what she's doing. There's a difference between a category overlapping with another does not mean that either fully encompasses the other.
Yeah. A lot of people tend to assume that when someone is not "normal" according to their preconceived notions of "normal" that something is wrong, very often in whatever way either frightens, disgusts or exites them the most.
Kat is so pretty 😩. Skin is glowing 🙌🏾 Side note/ Edit: Arielle must be struggling with dating or finding a partner because I just don’t understand why she cares so much about trans people. Like for what reason does she need to be in their business so heavily? When she made a video after Elliot Page transitioned, complaining about lesbians disappearing, is when I really started wondering why she’s all in trans people’s business. If she doesn’t want to date a trans woman, she doesn’t have to and that should be it. She seems obsessed at this point.
@ThisMariaH So, what you're saying is, if we just get her into Gaming or K-Pop reaction videos or something else that drives engagement up ... she'll stop being a transphobe? I'd say worth a try :D
@@karik.8291 unfortunately people making gaming content have a lot of incentive to be transphobic too, just look at how many subscribers james Stephanie sterling lost when they said that Scott Cawthorn donating to organisations trying to take away trans peoples rights was a bad thing.
@@vxicepickxv basically cutting up trans women's sexuality into itty bitty pieces of "you're not trans if you are aroused by your own femininity " or "you're not trans if you don't transition right" whatever. Assessing & judging other's sexuality and gender is always trans/homophobic 🙁
The dating app thing is SO WEIRD whyyyy are you talking to people you don't want to date? Which apps let you talk to someone without matching with them first? Like, I'm tempted to say people are being rude to her rejections because she made them transphobicly but I don't honestly believe these interactions happened at all. And ugh, so as a cis bi/ace woman, lesbians being weepy about having to encounter trans women in dating apps and sapphic spaces is so weird to me. What is this idea that you have to be attracted to everyone you see in an app or at a bar? I agree cis men encroaching on these spaces is bad behavior and I too would like them to stop, but there's this other piece to the way people like Arielle talk about "men in lesbian spaces" that feels to me like they are like oh yeah it's fine and normal for straight and bi/pan women to deal with men being awful, but if lesbians ever encounter them it's the end of the word. I think it's the gender essentialism that makes me feel this way, because it seems like when she's talking about trans women taking rejection badly she's trying to invoke common experiences straight women have. By framing the discussion this way it's like she's saying it's s not bad when men do that to straight women that's just how men are.
When I was first transitioning a gender specialist once asked me if I got sexual gratification from dressing as my true self, I was so shocked and offended and I asked him if he got sexual gratification from wearing a shirt and tie!
Not everyone finds themselves sexually attractive, but it’s totally fine to explore gender in this way, realizing you’re trans because you’re aroused by presenting as a different gender is completely valid. Gender and sexuality are so fucky and can interact in lots of fucky ways sometimes. Everyone is different.
ok yeah because there is stuff i want to say but i worry it will end up on a truscum site now. i am genderfluid and i have different feelings towards all sides of me both euphoria and attraction (also worthy to note I am pansexual so it kind of makes sense even more so)
I rewatched the Contrapoints video on autogynophilia before I watched this video and I was reminded about how strange and unscientific the theory is. It’s so annoying to see it pollute the discourse. Also, your point about Arielle’s video being disjointed and unconvincing is so true, I feel like anti-trans people will often make these underdeveloped arguments and people just eat it up.
I don’t get the logic that autogynephiles are less feminine. Like, if someone has a fetish for themselves as a woman, wouldn’t that mean that they’d want to present as high femme as possible? Trans women who are say, a soft butch, likely wouldn’t be autogynephiles (according to the logic in which it’s even a thing that trans women are this thing), because she isn’t putting in effort to be as feminine as possible. Also, Arielle is a lesbian, and yet she’s dismissing all futch and butch trans women because they aren’t feminine enough? She’s a lesbian! Cis women are still women when butch. The entire thing is completely lacking in logic.
*quote* Trans women who are say, a soft butch, likely wouldn’t be autogynephiles *quote* so, the word autogynephilia does not apply to trans women because the definition of the word is "men who are attracted to themselves as a woman" and trans women are not men.
To me this seems like they're just looking at gender euphoria and twisting it into something perverse. Gender euphoria is fucking great and being trans doesn't have to be awful and scary exclusively
All the so-called crossdressing fetishists I knew in 2008 are happily transitioned today. All of them. Some non-binary and most binary. Probably because sexuality is a common way actual identity comes to the surface, I suspect that Gender Euphoria is in part the alleviation of repressed unconscious gender dysphoria. Blanchard’s typology falls apart with the data that the majority orientation of Trans people is Bi, with equal numbers of Gay/Lesbian and Straight in the remainder. And now there’s multiple genetic studies showing multiple genetic links to Trans involving sex hormone signalling genes and the genetic pathways of neurological sex development Blanchard’s and anyone else’s claims of any psychological causation subset first has to prove there’s a cohort absent any of the genetic links. Which should already be showing up in the genetic studies and isn’t.
@@ddjsoyenby That’s really the basis of it all. Something has to cause us being trans. We can’t just happen to be trans and also be something else at the same. So what about asexual trans people? Are they autogynephiles or are they homosexual transsexuals?
Autogynephilia rhetoric is identical to anti-masturbation rhetoric put forward by religious hacks - "If you masturbate it's a sign you love yourself and that makes you sinful, homosexual, and narcisisstic" All this highbrow pathologization of diverse identity is is just propoganda from rich, white, Christian racists.
What I would have wished for in this video is the clarification what an effing transphobe Ray Blanchard is. He specifically coined the term autogynephilia to 'explain' trans women who were not exclusively interested in men. To him it's not just men with a paraphilia, it's men with such an extreme version of said paraphilia that this is then creating dysphoria, which in turn re-enforces the idea of trans women as creepy sexual deviants. His concept of 'homosexual' trans women (trans women exclusively interested in men) is not much better, as he essentially thinks of them as men _so_ gay they need to transition so they can date straight men. Also interestingly he never really talks about trans men, it's pretty much always trans women. Everything Blanchard has ever put forward is just transmisogynist bullshit, and it has been harmful as heck too.
transphobes always bring up transwomen having facial hair as “proof” of them not being “real women” but like….. im a ciswoman who can grow a mustache, just because i’m naturally very hairy. so am i also not a “real woman”? lmao i’ve just never understood that logic
Same here!! I've even been mistaken a couple of times for a non-passing trans woman even though I am in fact a cis woman who just happens to have facial hair on my chin and around my lips; I have to effing SHAVE MY CHIN every morning to avoid looking "unkempt".
I'm a cis girl and I've been shaving my upper lip since puberty. If I introduced myself as a trans woman to somebody like Arielle she'd probably think I didn't pass particularly well 😂
This is perfect timing for me. It’s like people always have to find a reason to keep this like hate boner for trans people and especially nonpassing trans people. Thanks for making this and I’m so sorry for blaming you for something you didn’t do. I was(and am) going through a lot but it was wrong of me to come on here and say you have an issue with non passing trans people when you don’t.
Arielle Scarcella is engaging in the same kind of respectability politics as Blaire White: "I'm the right kind of X, and those people are the wrong kind of X, and I'll attack them in hope you will accept me."
@@devent10n yh it's like that debate with Blaire white and even further right conservatives, Blaire was pickmeing her absolute hardest and the others were still like 'nah you're poisoning society'
The respectability crap annoys me. I used to engage with a transwoman on social media who presented herself as a respectable trans woman. Of course she never showed her face. Just an anime avatar. I later on found out why. Turns out she is into ABDL. I have seen pictures of her in an ABDL diaper with a pacifier. I know it's her because of some old youtube videos where the voice matches up with videos she did under her anime avatar. Of course there is nothing with ABDL. I don't kink shame. But if people found out she was into ABDL; she wouldn't have been viewed as respectable. I am definitely not one of the respectable trans women. I don't hide the fact that I am into kink. I don't exist to bow down to the norms of cishet vanilla society. I am not the official representative of trans women. So I don't need to present myself in a manner that makes cishets comfortable.
@doesnot matter at it's most basic level you are correct. Men are not woman. And Women are not men. Which is why I and every other trans woman is not a man.
But to be serious, this whole "Who's a real trans" debate just feel likes a mute point in terms of trying to achieve our political goals. Like what does it matter if someone is a "true trans" or not, if they are getting kicked out of the same bathrooms other trans people are? What does it matter if a transwoman has facial hair, if she is being fired along side other transwomen who don't have facial hair? Like, transphobia is going to happen whether or not we all look perfect. My nonbinary ass isn't the reason for systemic oppression, and debating my trans status will not make cisgender people be nicer to you.
you may not care about womens fears but it also matters because transgender people will end up on the bottom of lists when it comes to help for things like mental health and other things if any old man can just say hes a woman when he feels like it. and it means, men pretending to be trans who do abuse such abilities will end up damaging the view of trans people in society.
*moot point and I mean yeah she's a bad actor and it is important we call out bad actors like Ariella and deconstruct the logical fallacies they utilize because they're also holding up the patriarchy and white supremacy it's really fucking scary. If a woman or female presenting persons measure of whether she can live without constant harassment and fetishization is by how passing, feminine, and how in service of the male gaze she is that doesn't bare well for any women or female presenting people be them cis or trans. I don't actually understand the point of your comment though who is debating whether enbys are really trans isn't this video about specifically trans lesbians being accused of being Autogynephiles due to them not passing at least in Ariellas eyes? Also the Terf is cis so I assume cis people are perfectly pleasant to her.
@@lotus3222 yeah, i’m sure cis men will be clamoring to humiliate themselves in the eyes of their guy friends by pretending they’re trans to do crimes they can already do as cis men, and won’t largely continue to avoid associating with feminine or womanly things at all to protect their masculinity.
My biggest issue with people like Arielle is that they never define what "trying" actually is in terms of trans presentation. As you said, not everyone who is trans can afford to turn themselves form masculine to obviously feminine & that doesn't inherently mean they aren't or haven't made any effort. Like she pulls those Tinder pics with zero context and pretends they're all disingenuous but has no idea which people are at the start of their journey, which people have had confirmation surgery, which aren't interested in committing to confirmation surgery, which do indeed experience dysphoria, which are just starting hormone therapy or which might be rocking beards because they want to and not because they're just straight guys playing pretend. Her BS argument relies on not just laying her personal subjective ideas on what a transwoman needs to look like but also on completely separating out the lived experiences of the people she's judging. Like if wearing a dress is enough for some random transwoman or if said transwoman only came to terms with their identity at age 40 instead of in elementary school, what authority does Arielle have to claim that that isn't enough effort to put in to actually respect that person's self-identity?
As simplistic as it seems, it's interesting to me how much bigotry boils down to an obsessive fear that you'll somehow be coerced into sex with a person you don't find attractive. I think you hit the nail on the head when you characterized people who get accused of being autogynephiles as (1) presenting masculine and (2) wanting to sleep with women - and also with the thing about Arielle only having beef with trans women who like women.
9:00 this is what happens when a community is pathologized and psychologically profiled by people who are choosing to follow their own bias vs data provided by those with lived experience.
This video just reminds me why I unsubscribed from Arielle years and years ago. She's just doubled down on her ignorance. She's the kinda woman that curses the world for why she's still single, but she's her own biggest problem.
So I always wonder where I, as a gay trans man, fit into Blanchard's idea of gender and sex? You can't say I am autogynephilic and you can't say I am the 'homosexual type' trans man (i.e. het trans men who used to identify as lesbian) as I am attracted to men. How often do you see autoandrophilia talked about? LOL people with beards calling themselves lesbians. You don't seem to mind it when those bearded lesbians are trans men tho...
There's a far less transphobic and pathological label called autosexuality that acknowledges people can be attracted to or arousing to themselves. It acknowledges it's a normal spectrum ranging from the ability to get off with no one else (like most of us do), to the use of mirrors during play, to finding your image arousing, to perfering yourself as a partner to other people, etc. This is independent of gender, transness, or queerness. It would include every possible way this could be expressed. From straight cis woman, to cross-dressing men, to trans men who just find themselves hot regardless of their current state of transition. It acknowledge that this is a real experience without excluding nuance of experience or pathologizing transwomen or cross dressers.
okay but like trans people can become way more comfortable in their sexuality after transitioning and looking more like themselves from an outsider perspective that might seem like they're sexually attracted to themselves but it's not the same also even if a trans person is attracted to themself when they present more like their gender is "supposed" to present, that doesn't change that they're trans?? ALSO why do people think all trans women have to be hyperfeminine in order to be trans- i don't get it omfg
I'm a trans gay man and I'd imagine myself as a man in sexy situations... Does that make me auto-andro-phyllic or whatever? Is there even a term for that? Probably not since this is mostly a ploy to frame trans women as predatory. I mean jfc, many trans people are dysphoric with the way their bodies currently are, so wouldn't it just make sense to be more 'excited' about how their bodies could be once they're able to transition? Or what about gay cis men who work out a lot? I can bet they find themselves sexy to some extent or at least their aim is to become more visually appealing to themselves and others. I've also got cis lesbian friends who I hear calling themselves sexy as well, seems like... It's actually a sign of improving self esteem if you can look in the mirror and go "damn ;)" a little bit. Of course there's also people who have specific fetishes but I wouldn't say that they're more common than just... Trans women feeling themselves a bit.
this is exactly it! seeing myself as a woman is the first time i have actually liked my body to any degree! Pretty sure everyone has an internal barometer of whether they feel attractive or not too... so it is as if they're trying to connect those two and frame it to make us look bad. They've taken something that's normal for cis people, attached a medical sounding term to it, and made it out to be weird when we do the same but with our gender actually being congruent with how we're seeing ourselves.
Alot of comments are confusing me with how they are using terms. I am an autogynephiliac. @finpin You would not be an autoandrophiliac because you are a man and autoandrophilia is for women only and also you said you are gay and both (of the auto) terms are autosexual, not homosexual and I believe they are mutually exclusive. People trying to use labels to shame others are just wrong and I'm sorry if anyone feels judged and/or ashamed.
Even if a person is an autogynophile, why is that held up like a piece of evidence in a cartoon show? There’s little that exists that some person isn’t into so I wouldn’t be surprised if autogynophelia as described in the video was a thing for a few people, trans or not. Personally I don’t see how it is inherently a problem.
i'm completely over the conversation about wlw spaces and who can and can't be a part of it. i have resigned myself to the fact that a space for women to meet each other (esp online) is just not viable. on one side you have cishet men/unicorn hunters and on the other, you have people like fucking arielle. i'm tired. i hated arielle back when you got into it with her in 2013 and i still hate her now lmao
Autogynephilia isn't even unique to trans women, in as much as it's even like a ""real"" thing. There was a small study done that showed that cis women also were "autogynephilic". Autogynephilia has been largely dismissed by reputable trans health experts, but when cis women are given the questionnaire that is supposed to determine if trans women are autogynephilic, it turns out that cis women are as well. Again, this was a small study. There's a lot more to be learned on this subject. Whether these results hold up in a larger study, whether "autogynephilia" is an intrinsic part of women's sexuality, or human sexuality, etc. etc.
women are sexualized in every single way, so a woman feeling sexy or attractive is not the same as a man pretending to be a woman and getting off on it...
@Auna Remington It wasn't that they were aroused by themselves just that the questionnaire used to test for autogynephilia was extremely biased. Any desire to look attractive and feminine, wanting others to see you as attractive, and gaining satisfaction from it made you "autogynephilic".
I'm probably completely off base here considering "autogynophilia" isn't a thing..... but how much of that "diagnosis" would you consider as a side effect of the pervasiveness of the male gaze?
I get the vibe she was tired of seeing people she’s not attracted to on the dating apps she uses so she made this rant video to scare them off instead of just swiping left and moving on with her day.
This may be a little off topic but while watching this I was stunned by how Kat was able to just sit through videos like these insulting so much about her very being and the most foundational parts of friends of hers. I am a cis woman who has never had to struggle through something as profound and world changing as transitioning my gender, so I could never pretend to understand and feel trans topics to a deep level, all I can do is try to empathise and try my hardest... But oh boy, I get so annoyed and crabby when I watch a video with a opinion I strongly disagree with, let alone something as profoundly insulting as some of these videos that Kat watches... The fact that she can just sit there without getting mad and let these assholes get to her... I really admire that.
@@KatBlaque Still something to be proud of, how you can stop a video and calmly point out things rather than get mad, I wish you never had to get used to it.
The thing that I found most interesting when i watched her video earlier was that she would like.. not let her guest talk for herself. She'd ask her a question and then answer for her. She'd ask her about her own experience and then immediately start answering for her with assumptions as to what she believes her experience should be.
"They're trans women so they have to be hyper feminine." This is the crux of the issue right here! People like Arielle can only accept trans people within the strict confines of gender stereotypes. They deny that gender is a construct and that you don't have to look or act a certain way in order to identify a certain way. Her saying that real trans women talk differently than fake ones is absurd! Everybody talks differently. I once dated a trans man who wasn't able to take hormones because they interfered with his bipolar medicine. He had short hair but basically looked like a butch lesbian. He wasn't sure if he wanted to get surgery because of price and other risk factors so most people just considered him to be a woman. They denied his gender identity because he didn't fit into their box of what a man should look like. This is wrong on so many levels. Your gender is based on who you are inside, not what you look like on the outside.
When I used to use dating apps, specifically Tinder (this was like 2014/15 btw). I've looked for women and you'll find the occasional poly person or couple looking to "price things up", and often times I would see men. And it's not like a trans women who haven't transitioned, it's not nonbinary people who just look masculine. It is literally men who set their gender as "female" and it always annoyed me. Like, it's so gross, because I wanted to date a woman or afab person, not see fucking Chad with his group of bros and you're not too sure who is who. I just don't understand their reasoning as to why they're bringing this up? It's not trans women who pretend to be women (they're not even pretending) it's the obvious cismen who set their gender to female on Facebook (when Tinder was connected to your Facebook page I don't know if it is anymore) as a laugh to be like "hahaha wouldn't it be funny!" and just be absolute arseholes to lesbians, bisexual, pansexual, etc. women and afab folks who are looking for people like them to date. Transphobes are just... wild. I see so many of them call out trans people in sports, obviously, but it's worse when it affects masculine looking women. They talk about how they're men, but they're just masculine women??? Like, does your feminism not include masc women? Because you're invalidating a bunch of lesbians who are butch or look masculine. Like. FARTS are just, they're something else. Autogynephilia is so overused, like shut up.
everytime i hear "this is a man thing" and "this is a woman thing" it makes me cringe so hard. a lesbian should know thats not really a thing right?? nothing is exclusive to certain genders?? how many butch lesbians has she met im genuinely curious.
In this country you have to have proof of social transition to medically transition. So in order to take the path to potentially "passing" you have to live as your gender with little to no chance of "passing" for usually a year, plus waiting list times and the time it takes most hormones to take effect, and no reputable practicioner will green light you for surgery without you having been on hormones for usually at least six months. What do these people expect trans people to do in the meantime? Completely avoid dating and romance because they might make cis people uncomfortable? Just never go outside or exist in public as a trans person? Oh wait-
Thanks to watching both parts! You can see this full, unedited stream on my Patreon. It includes an additional reaction and an unedited version of my story about Arielle.
www.patreon.com/posts/full-arielle-60820373
I love you ❤️ your intelligence is unmatched
Oh wow. It's finally here. I'll have to watch and post
Awesome video but also jeze those poor randoms who had dating profiles posted and also Arielle's gross tooth baring grin like it's oddly vicious and not friendly looking to her "friend" imo. Also Blanchard is just mad transbians won't fuck him and that more women he finds "unnatracive" exist and thus offend him so he made a weird pseudoscience "cope" as the yoofs are saying. Also the chaser /transphobe circles overlap loads on the venn diagram.
Blanchard has been debunked as a pseudoscientist and his theories are old and outdated and hard to scientifically replicate. therefore his is no longer seen as a valid scientific contributor in the field of trans issues.
I need to see Part 3! I’m so excited! Your videos on Arielle are my favorite reactions and I want to see more! 😍
My biggest thing is like, cis women dress up to feel sexy all the time. They dress up for the partners but also like, what about when u just wanna feel urself? Does a cos woman dressing up to look sexy count? What about nb afab ppl? I HATE the feeling of looking feminine most of the time. It makes my skin crawl to do a lot of girly things so I could never imagine putting in a silky dress & heels to turn ANYONE on. Do I not count even tho I am Sapphic? I am attracted to women that dress up feminine but I don't.
Her logic is so backwards & specific, I can't believe some women, trans or cis, will sit there & let her define th or what they have a right to look like. Gender is a performance & Arielle is sitting out in the parking lot complaining about how she just doesn't get it.
love the last line of this comment haha
Love love love this comment esp the last bit
As a cis woman, I think heels were meant for the bedroom (for height issues). I don’t wear them to walk. I have a collection of running shoes and comforts colorful shoes that I love. I never wear makeup and rarely get my nails done. I just don’t have the time and find it boring (I do my own nails sometimes which can be interesting). I feel more feminine in running clothes or jeans than a skirt or dress. When you are comfortable, that’s when you can feel sexy. Especially with the right person 🙂🤓 I don’t like when people define femininity as some Stepford Wife standard that just doesn’t exist anymore. Being feminine and being a woman is very individualistic because we are individuals and should be treated as such. That’s the point of feminism. Men can be whatever they want, so should women. Equal rights, equal consequences, equal pay. It’s so simple, but some people still don’t get it.
Nb afab ppl are just women. So how does that change anything?
@@Catkovi no theyre not dude theyre literally nonbinary
14:20 they also completely ignore the idea that perhaps some of these trans women who present as being more masc are not in safe enough environments to fully shave, wear makeup, buy new gender affirming clothes, etc. It isn't even considered.
it's because they live in a fantasy world where every single person on the planet is trans-accepting and that only _they_ are brave enough to speak out against the "trans activists"
Imagine... low quality psychology that ignores social factors becoming popular among laypeople for the wrong reasons... novel phenomenon! /s (sorry I'm a bitter sociologist and lesbian, and i'm so, so tired of blanchard & scarcella)
o.o
Omg yes!!!
if I was a trans woman and I come out after I've had a full beard for years I'd be a little scared to shave it off
I get this from the fact I was scared to cut off my long hair as a trans man
(though it's not needed for someone to be a woman, people are saying these things about women that choose not to shave)
the photos she was sending included lots of people who didn't even claim to be women. and you can't fully know a person or their gender based on pictures you find online. And it's not like she knows if any of those people are attracted to themselves as women! Literally imagine if any of those trans women had T4T in their bios. Imagine!
She don't have any idea about non binary people and she only enforcess gender steretypes
Could the people that are often included in these videos sue these creators? Would they have a case against them? If some random person on UA-cam used photos from my dating app profile on a video pretty much bashing me I would at the very least wanna know how they have such nerve lol
@@helena4440 no, I don't think it violates fair use guidelines. It's like those articles you see on Facebook or just on Google, they haven't actually spoken to the person they're talking about but they've seen the story on their social media and just took it and ran. I imagine the same applies here. I wouldn't be happy if my pic was used but I doubt they could do anything about it.
What does T4T mean?
@@jesiharpercardosa8144 Trans people who exclusively date other trans people
I keep noticing her and Blaire White and people like that using people who are not trans women and are not even in the video in their thumbnails. Like, Blaire White used a photo of Little Bear, a bearded lady with PCOS, in one of her thumbnails, and Little Bear is never even mentioned in the video, and she put neopronouns Little Bear doesn't even use under the photo - Little Bear, afaik, goes by she/her. If there really is this wave of men who pretend to be trans but don't "put in the effort", why do they need to use photos of enbies and female bearded ladies and so forth? Some cis women have beards, it's a thing that happens, and someone needs to tell these people that googling "woman with beard" or whatever, to find a photo for their thumbnail, is proving the point that their rhetoric is hurting gnc cis women, intersex people, etc, on top of hurting trans people.
I guess it goes to show that transphobia has a way of affecting cis women who "don't look like women." It's so awful that Blaire would tell lies about and make fun of a woman with a medical condition, but it isn't all that surprising, knowing her.
13:40 not to mention that because transitioning is so difficult, Arielle is basically saying that trans women who don't pass should be reclusive and miserable in their bodies until they pass. can't a non passing trans person feel themselves??? can't we have an ounce of joy of our bodies and faces the way they are without being labeled as p3rv3rts??
Yep! Reclusive until you've qualified
I'm a cis-gender queer man and I feel sexy being a man. Is that autoandrophilia? I look at my hairy forearms and it makes me feel hot. This is also true for the men I date. I like my body they way I like my partners' bodies. I feel like thats not weird.
It's normal... If people don't have self confidence how can anybody hook up sucessfully???? I'm gonna stop thinking about this video bc it's driving me crazy 😆
Freak Show!
Sew a horn on your head 🦄
that makes me feel better as a transmasc then about how I feel when thinking of transitioning, though a lot of that may just be excitement, I can't tell, I have a detachment from my emotions and such
Also you have to consider that not everyone can afford to transition soo some of these people may have immense dysphoria and want to medically transition but don't have the money and/or the support to do soo. There are some people who never medically transition for many reasons such as money problems, no support or health issues.
thats what makes putting them in the video particularly violent in my eyes; to be able to transition is a privilege. to put images of someone existing in their body as it is in a video to shame and pathologize them for not looking different is already indefensible, but with the additional layer that these people may be experiencing dysphoria and are putting themselves out there despite it? miss arielle is going to arihell
half the time I don't shave because I'm to tired or depressed or busy to do it despite it making me dysphoric
As a gay guy who has been a male since birth (not that all gay people are this) I am sexually attracted to myself. Does this somehow invalide my gender? No. Neither does it invalidate a trans person who may actually be attracted to themselves once transitioning.
As a vain bisexual, I concur.
as a nb lesbian I honestly don't understand straight cis people being weird about "being attracted to yourself." I think it's kinda weird they aren't. Like you really don't look in the mirror and think 'yeah I'd hit that'??
(excluding ppl of any gender/sexuality with body image issues, totally get that & sympathize.)
@@sylvia5400 Well for me as a straight cis woman I have body dysmorphia so it’s kind a hard for me to actually find myself sexually attractive for the most part I can find my face appealing but my body no.
I'm also a cis male and I've legit had this fantasy that I'd run into my twin or like my doppelganger and we'd just click and bang.
I'm aromantic and asexual, and have never considered myself attractive, so I can't relate. The irony is that Blanchard would say the reason I'm asexual is that the autogynephilia is so overpowering that it rules out any attraction to others, which is an assumption based on not talking to any actual asexual trans people. I'm not attracted to anyone, especially not myself, though I can _recognize_ that certain people would be attractive in the eyes of others.
"Why trans women and men transition?" Arielle asks her guest who is trans and then proceeds to not let her guest answer.
Also I know lot of trans women who tried to battle their gender dysphoria by presenting ultra masculine before they realized that they are trans. One of my best friends described it as feeling "Im not manly enough/Im not real man" so she grow a beard, got some "manly man" tattoos, joined the gym, got riped but that feeling never went away and then she met another trans person and realized that she cant feel like man because she is not a man. And after that is transitioning even more difficult.
Yep that's pretty common. Unfortunately i've dated a lot of people who presented as hyper masc men who later realized they were trans women. Quite sad.
Similar to how many gay people tried to use religion to "pray the gay away" and go through a hyper-religious phase.
As a cis butch lesbian, the whole "femininity" argument is bunk when myself and other masc lesbians have been a part of the lesbian community from the start, but they don't actually care about us. I mean the bathroom debacle has brought on people who give me second looks. So that's why I'm always in solidarity with my trans siblings because we have far more in common than i EVER would with feminine cis women.
We appreciate you 💖💖💖
@@mycenaeangal9312 ♥♥♥
I hate that we’re being associated with terfs when so much of the butch experience and history is shared with trans people!
@@Sara-uq6km For real! A trans man on twitter wrote about his experience in finding gender joy related to his presentation, not just in gender affirming surgeries but small things that you get to make the CHOICE to wear and present (like hair cuts, clothes, piercings, etc), and I have never felt something so relatable to that. Finding my masculinity made me feel like me, and it all came together with my orientation, and discovering the butch/femme community/relationships.
I have been misgendered since middle school cause I guess when I started dressing myself how I wanted, I presented to masculine for people. As you said as a queer WOC, I relate to trans people far more than angry bitter privileged white lesbians lmao
So apparently there's a term for me (as a cis, Heteroromantic Demiséxual woman) being attracted to myself crossdressing as a fancy dude in a suit at Comicon. That makes me feel a lot better about my gender identity 😅
❤❤❤❤❤
I bet you look like a million dollars, too!
PS tie your own bow tie and French cuffs all the way. Shined shoes the finishing touch! When walking with your Lady you walk closer to the street.
There might be a term. But it isn't autogynephilia, if you mean that. That is reserved only for wanting to look feminine for sexual pleasure. Gyne is Ancient Greek for 'woman'.
Autoandrophilia. I'm the same way. Absolutely feel so sexy wearing men's clothes with a touch of red lipstick.. I look hot af and my partners all have loved it. They're men btw, but most were bi haha
Ok, as a lesbian who's been around wlw-specific dating apps before-- straight men fishing for a fantasy lesbian gf don't feel the need to pretend they're women. They show up beard-out, holding a catfish in their pfp and saying their name is Chad. They aren't clever enough to try and pretend.
Leave trans women alone ffs....
Entitled cis men don't believe they have to look/act like women anyway. In their minds, they're owed for their masculine superiority. Bask in the light of my catfish, females.
Fish fear me, women want me 🤣
@@MalcamPrasad i mean doesnt your statement exactly display why you’re the problem? why are trans people a monolith in your eyes? ive never gotten clocked nor seen as a trans person and i navigate the world as a cissy, yet im grouped into this monolithic idea of how trans ppl are to be perceived. its so funny like it shows how chronically online you are
@@MalcamPrasad like my transness isnt remotely part of my life except the fact i have implanted estrogen pellets every few months. that’s it. yet somehow its to gauge my attraction? LOL.
@@MalcamPrasad what spaces are you at where this is happening? I’ve used tinder and OkCupid and neither of them let’s anybody talk to me unless I swipe on them first. In real life I’ve never had a transwoman come up to me in a lesbian/gay club and be pushy with me if I’m not intersted in them (in fact I’ve never had a transwoman approach me at all). None of us have the one universal experience but I’m another lesbian here who seriously doubts that this is a huge issue. Now actual straight cis unicorn hunters in lesbian spaces - I’ve seen/experienced that probably a dozen times.
The weird irony or purposeful whatever of arielle saying "well isn't it offensive to say 'dress like a woman'" and then policing ppls gender expression/sexuality based on how much they look like a woman.....
This stood out to me too, like what does she even want??
"femininity is more than appearances but also if you don't look a certain way your doing feminity wrong" is my favorite brand of terf logic
I feel like it's some variation of cognitive dissonance.
Exactly that was confusing because she's basically sorting people by how she interprets how they express themselves
She's trying to make a poit while reinforcing gender stereotypes
My friend has been called this by a TERF before and she literally is a cis woman she just works out lol
I lost my best friend over this bs. She kept going on about how these transwomen (absolutely not the word she used) were "threats". Anyways, Friendus deletus
I’m sure she was devastated.
i had forgotten Arielle existed, seeing this made me double check and realize i was still subscribed to her from like 10+ years ago when i thought i was a lesbian (turns out i'm pan and non-binary) and she was one of the few lesbian creators at the time and she seemed cool and wasn't so off the deep end. feels pretty gross that i was still accidentally subbed to her. wonder how many of her subs are from the same situation
I was too eek to see how people have fallen off …
Just reminded me to unsub, cheers!
It feels gross? Lol you’re so dramatic. As if she did something to you personally. Weirdo.
@@trevormichael4906 yeah so? it feels gross being subbed to someone whose views are gross 🤷
@@wghmnb9136 💀 byee
The funny thing about this "argument" for autogynephilia is that it's only discussed in regards to trans women, so much so it's in the name. Where's the theory about "autoandrophilia" for trans men, or "autoandrogynephilia(?)" for non-binary people? It's so perplexing that this breed of transphobia is so hyper-fixated on one form of gender identity, so much so that is pretty much ignores all other gender identities except for cis men and cis/trans women.
Oh, Blanchard did try to sneak that word into the second revision of the DSM-V so as "not to be seen as sexist." This wasn't based on any empirical evidence or scientific study, just his pulling it out of his ass. The final revision took the word back out, but left AGP in there. I didn't know that was how science works.
ikr.
I've heard people speculate that it is due to entrenched patriarchy. In their mind it is understandable why a woman would want to pretend to be a male, as that is a better position, but to desire to by a woman is perplexing to them so they're more likely to attack it as abnormal. It's transcends trans people too, as masculine lesbians dressing in men's clothes have been accepted much more readily than feminine men dressing in women's clothes. Wanting to be a man makes sense in their sexist mind, but wanting to be a womanly!?
Honestly? I've actually heard stuff like "trans man just fetishize gay men so much they actually want to live in a yaoi fantasy irl", "this [trans man] looks like a woman's fantasy version of a guy, not like a real man", etc A LOT. It's probably the main source of my internalised homophobia.
Buuut I've heard that stuff almost exclusively from women (often queer women). So I guess they just can't influence the general discourse as much as straight man do.
But in predominantly afab russian geek communities it's A THING. To a point where a local anti-trans insult is to call a trans guy a "yaoi prince" lmao.
Also yeah it's always "afab trans people have a fetish for male GAYNESS" and literally never just "afab trans people fetishize being a man in general".
The state of being a man is mostly seen as this basic, boring thing, the idea of it being seen as exotic and alluring is too strange for most people, they can't even imagine that as a possibility
@@underjoyed9504 Man, if they say that about hetero trans men, that's extremely funny. Can you imagine? "Ugh, you're just trying to look like a woman's fantasy of a man!" " Why... yes. Yes, I am, actually."
Ariel’s like one step away from accusing Rupaul’s Drag Race of invading women’s spaces because she found a random tweet from a cis lesbian saying she has a weird crush on Sasha Velour.
To be fair, since there's five gorgeous women among the Season 14 contestants, Arielle should get braced for seeing even more sapphics saying they've got crushes on drag queens...
I identify as Nb/male and gay, and I HAVE crushes on drag queens- how can’t you! They’re beautiful
I have a crush on Katya 😩😩😩💖💖💖
I'm a Cis guy. I'm hot, I feel aroused by the fact that I'm hot. I see myself in the mirror and take pictures to send to other guys and thinking they'll enjoy it arouses me. Am I autoandrophilic? Don't know, maybe I guess. Am I a predator? No. Am I not a "real man"? Why would a trans man be less valid just because he experiences the same thing as I? It's baffling
My partner and I are both bisexual and have some degree of auto-philia, so I'm inclined to think it can't be that abnormal
Haha I am cis-bisexual and I fear this might be me but I don't want to admit it as the case because it sounds strange. I am quite attractive and I think I get more enjoyment from teasing the opposite sex than I get from the actual opposite sex. I think my biggest kink is teasing and being slutty and I like to look at myself perhaps a bit too much.
I think the reason her videos are frustrating is because they don't aim to educate, they aim to show contempt towards marginalised communities
LOL yes at the observation that often a lot of gay couples look alike, saying as a lesbian myself. Also really loving Kat's reactions to all the BS.
lmao idk if I'm the exception then my partner is literally a whole other race💀
I wouldn't listen to someone who says "you look too much like your partner". Its just code for "I'm mad I have to date someone I view as my opposite!"
Same lol, I'm a big titty goth GF who mostly dates other big titty goth GFs, & my anchor partner is a femboy who mostly dates other femboys 😅
And the fact that there is siblings or dating…
@@nukiradio Iunno about that. I'm gay and a hell of a lot of couples I've met and seen online look like twins. I think sometimes it's just more obvious when someone is the same gender/presentation.
Arielle: you can't "dress like a woman" that's so misogynistic >:^(
Also Arielle: these trans women don't present feminine enough so they're fetishists
What do you want Arielle???
I mean, we already know what she wants, but she'll never admit it.
For trans people to get back into the closet, obviously
99% of the people she shows, however, aren't "Trans-women". They are nonbinary. So it's "These non-binary people who don't identify as women/feminine, don't present feminine enough so they're fetishists". Which is even more absurd...
@@onijester56 honestly like. As a nonbinary person, there is just literally nothing one can do to please the cis. If you present too much as a binary gender, you're not valid, if you present androgynous you're somehow reinforcing gender roles too, personally I've just dyed my hair rainbow and chosen to become the meme.
She wants to read Whipping Girl
I like how Arielle says "not kinkshaming" and later proceeds to kinkshame
@@wghmnb9136 bisch, stop acting like you're everybody's mum, let people keep their 'self-control in check' if they want to. check yourself and keep that checking to yourself.
@@wghmnb9136 If they're shameless in the first place "putting some shame" isn't gonna do jackshit, if you're throwing at least aim
Hi 😊 there merchust 5.7😊😊😊👍😎🌈🌈❤️💜
I think it should also be noted that a lot of dating apps don’t even have a nonbinary option- you have to choose either male or female. So, my guess is that a lot of the people they’re pulling from dating apps don’t even identify as trans women, but instead see themselves as feminine leaning nonbinary people.
The part of the discussion about "it's weird being attracted to yourself" seems so odd to me. We're just gonna ignore the fact that "would you fuck your clone" has been a thought experiment people have memed for years and say they would (or they wouldn't because it's "too gay").
The fact that it’s been around forever doesn’t make it less odd. It IS odd to be attracted to yourself. Some would say narcissistic and vain.
@@ascendednightingale2456 is it though? I think it depends how far you take it. if a person saw someone who they found attractive, and then in themselves tried to apply some of those traits -- probably via style or something -- because they find the traits sexy, period, it wouldn't be odd to then find yourself attractive...
The way the clip Arielle uses contradicts her whole thesis… like, I disagree with the guy’s theories, but Blanchard makes the claim that people with AGP can be transgender, and then Arielle goes on to make a video about how people with AGP are fake trans women or whatever. Arielle’s videos are so incoherent & it’s pretty obvious that she just includes certain buzzwords to please her radfem and conservative audiences.
@@bread2246 trans women who were attracted to women werent allowed to transition for a long time.
terfs: women shouldn’t be defined by expectations of hyperfemininity ‼️
also terfs: *defines womanhood by conformity towards hyperfemininity
Yup!
“Corporate wants you to find the difference between these two pictures”
*Sexist old man whose stuck in the 1950s, demands women not have one (1) hair on their leg but refuses to take a shower, thinks anyone other than a tradwife is an evil witch who eats babies*
*Terf*
“These are the same pictures.”
Yes!
This! Also, this expectation of femininity from lesbians/bi women in wlw spaces by Arielle is historically unaccurate and in other ways very, very wrong. I'm a quite butch/masc-presenting afab person dating a woman. My partner identifies as a lesbian, but she does not mind my masculine presentation. In fact she's quite into it, lol.
@@charlene2459 That was just about weakest uno reverse card i've ever goddamn seen
"listed themselves as trans women"
And many aren't saying they're trans women. Many were non binary. We don't even know if they were attracted to women.
I have to wonder how much Arielle's trans "friend" really hates herself so much that she'd keep such company.
Reminds me of Blaire white and how she is fine with being around people who would rather misgender her.
I so deeply appreciate Kat defending non-passing trans women even though she passes herself/used to be stealth. Not every passing trans person is willing to stick up for trans people who don’t pass for whatever reason, it’s refreshing to see someone defending them when they could easily get away with shitting on them.
These folks don't understand that uhh... You don't have to be hyper-feminine to be a woman.. gender *expression* isn't gender in and of itself. And there are certainly cis woman who probably don't technically "pass" either. That doesn't make them not women. Reducing someone else's identity to how they look is so terrible :((. The trans lady in the video is seriously serving Blair White energy.
Exactly.
reminds me of Lily Alexandre’s video “TERFs are Wrong about Biological Sex”
TERFs are just trying to bring gender back not abolish it.
literally im TECHNICALLY cis (i only am cause im told to i literally dont understand gender) but ive gotten clocked or told im actually a dude or other weird transphobic stuff, its kinda funny how just being a rlly hairy person with 2 x chromosomes and a kinda deep voice makes them mad.
Exactly lol I'm a cis woman who gets mistaken for other genders fairly often doesn't mean I'm not a real woman
Trans ideology doesn't make sense either way you put it.
When people repeated Blanchard's study on cis women, 95% of them counted considered autogynephilic. By Blanchard's definition it just means a woman likes her feminine traits and thinks they're hot on some level, which is not something to pathologise
yeah if anything it's a good thing.
I also think that people might not know that Autosexual/Autoromantic is a thing too and that might also technically skew alot of research using Autogynephilia.
Autosexual just means someone who is more attracted to themselves. They may be more comfortable in doing masturbation rather than sex with others but this doesn't mean all won't have sex or do have sex/masturbation.
Autoromantics are similar but on the Asexual side of the spectrum.
Autosexual and Autoromantic are a spectrum too so I'd imagine people would count this as Autogynephilia despite it might not being Autogynephilia.
It sounds more like people just might not know what Autosexual/romantic is and are mixing things around. I don't expect most to know what Autosexual/romantic is but the research should be taking this into account cause it could potentially be skewed in general as well whether for or against any arguments.
Also for anyone curious on Autosexual/romantic it does NOT mean narcissism. That's something different and does not mean you're both a narcissist and an autosexual/romantic.
@@meio_feio They mentioned that the study (also a way to easily look up the source) was repeated on cis women right at the start, this is not the gotcha you seem to portray it as.
Was about to ask in the comments if autogynephilia exists for cis women
Cause as a cis woman I could partially identify with that
but t3rfs ignore that cause it goes against their batsh1t ideology.
I wouldn’t say that autogynophilia doesn’t exist but it’s still up to people to label themselves, you don’t get to decide that someone else is faking being trans… also… why should I even care?
People care bc it’s in direct opposition to “born in the wrong body”
The thing about being trans that many people including Ariella don't get is that gender is a part of sexuality, which is a part of our whole beings... if a trans woman is sexually aroused by the idea of her own feminity, how is that different from a ciswoman feeling the same about herself?
Btw, my reply isn't directed specifically for you, your comment just made me think
I don't think anyone who doesn't care, should be forced to care. But a lot of women care for reasons we get tired of explaining, and for which we shouldn't even need to explain.
@@youcantdiealonewithcats someone else's gender and sexual identity doesn't involve you though, so there's no reason for you to care
Autogynephilia is pseudoscience, so I'd say it doesn't exists, and people can interact with their gender in any way they want
Not autogynofilla lolol
Arielle's issue with trans women feels weirdly personal, as if she was holding a grudge against an attractive woman she once hit on who then turned out to be trans and now she is convinced trans women are invading lesbian spaces. It's bizarre.
That's always been my impression
Didn't her ex gf leave her for a trans woman about a trillion lightyears ago and she's still bitter about that? Or was that someone else
😂 this is my first time hearing of her and it does seem like it’s personal
@@wghmnb9136 why did u censor the word 'fool' lol
@@wghmnb9136 trans people in fact do not take pride in fooling others. You're just fooling yourself if you seriously don't believe in science.
To me, the fundamental issue with autogynophillia is that it presumes a cross-gender transformation, despite the fact that, by its own etymology, it could apply to literally anyone. If a cis woman gets a kick from being perceived, treated and desired as hyper-feminine, that's just par for the course, but if a femme-presenting genderqueer person does it, suddenly we needs an ominous medical term to describe it? Not to mention that none of these conversation ever mention autoandrophillia (arousal at one's own image as a hyper-masculine), which happens to be a cartoonishly common trait among cis men. The fact that this debate is only ever deployed to analyse genderqueer folk, with a distinct focus of femme presentation, is extremely telling.
Thank you, this was very well said.
honestly that's a great point
It's because if trans men do something out of perversion or enjoyment, not just because they're (not my words) "confused lesbians" the whole terf rhetoric around trans women being predators, and generally people with male genitalia being predators would crumble.
Pseudo-intellectual "scholars" be like: "this person is having sex or experiences their sexuality in a non cisnormative, heteronormative way? That's bad. Time to make up a label to pathologize it."
@@ifuckedurmom your point stands but OP was talking more about cis men experiencing autoandrophilia, a la Patrick Bateman, to quote an extreme example. Many meathead cis guys, straight and gay, do seem to get off on their own muscular physiques...
Gender critical people: “Actually we’re trying to abolish gender as a construct”
Also gender crit ppl: “Woman has beard and therefore cannot be a woman”
Also I just realized…. What about cis women….. who do grow facial hair….. from like PCOS…… are they not allowed to be women/lesbians too?
No, to them women with PCOS are women who happen to be defective
They're allowed to be women/lesbians right after they shave their facial hair. Everyone must conform to the standard visual expression for womanhood.
A standard that just so happens to be what is attractive to cis men.
I've said it before and I'll say it again. TERFs are not feminists; they're a fifth-column of the patriarchy, violently reasserting the status quo.
I'm actually wanting to abolish the concept of gender, but I'm not into policing others' gender or gender expression. To me, the concept of a sex binary or gender binary does not make sense. There is no foolproof way to define the concepts of a man or a woman. I believe people when they identify as such, whether they be cis or trans, but to me, those categories are very much artificial and culture-related. People can identify as they want, but to me ideas of femininity, masculinity, etc. are just really nebulous and don't make sense. But what do I know, I'm agender lol
@@GeneralBolas TERFs are still feminist much like how tankies are still Communists, and p*dophilic priests are still Christians. You can't "No True Scottsman" people who are inconvenient to a movement out of a movement to avoid having to confront the lack of intersectionality in that movement.
Feminists have to explicitly be trans-positive and call out transphobia within the movement, Communists have to be explicitly anti-racist and call out class reductionism in their movement, and Christians have to be explicitly anti-authoritarian and call out abuses of power from within their denominations. Because "TERFs aren't real feminists" is an empty claim when many of them hold seats of power in legal and feminist organizations
Up until a few months ago, I identified as a woman. Throughout my time as a woman, I was told repeatedly by people that if I didn’t shave my facial hair, that I’d be considered “wrong” in some way. So I listened. I always felt down when I had to keep shaving it off, but I didn’t listen to myself. Now, I identify as non-binary/queer and unapologetically keep whatever facial hair I have ^^ and while I’m happy, I’m aware that the hair is softer and finer than it started out as due to all the removals. I regret ever listening to anyone else abt it.
Ppl, whether u identify as a woman or otherwise, let yourself have whatever traits u want. Don’t let gc terfs get u down - if u weren’t meant to have “non conforming” traits to choose from, you wouldn’t have the dna to develop them !
as a gay trans dude I know way more trans MEN who get excited by dressing in feminine clothes, actually. They don't get sexually excited by top surgery or hormones, they like looking like a man in women's clothing. It kinda loops back around.
also the arguement of trans people erasing lesbians is so funny because all the trans men i know PERSONALLY are gay or bi...
Also, in place of straight trans men, there are lesbian trans women, but terfs don’t like to acknowledge them as lesbians, so they feel like they’re “losing lesbians”
@@andreadamon2197 exactly. Cis lesbians are almost expected to be more masculine or ‘butch’ but if a trans lesbian doesn’t shave themselves from head to toe then they’re not legit? clownery
Yeah but Arielle thinks translebians don't count. That's kind of her main point (granted she never states it directly but at this point she doesn't have to).
@@IshtarNike exactly it’s the same truscum argument of “you’re just following a trend for attention” or “you’re not trying hard enough therefore you’re not trans” and trans people who let these kinds of narratives slide are tHE WORST,,, it’s just transphobia but painted a new color to make some trans people agree with it. Yucky
@@IshtarNike i think she has said she wouldnt date a trans woman
Autogynophilia reminds me of the time the Spiritual Science Research foundation published an article theorizing homosexuals were possessed by ghosts of the opposite sex
That is the belief, a demonic succubus is said to target men with erotic dreams and such. Hijras venerate these powers.
According to Ariel, trans women need to be conventionally feminine or they’re not really trans; but if trans women engage in conventional femininity, then they’re autogynephiles superficially fetishising femininity and being sexist by implying there’s a right and wrong way to be feminine. But also her friend is fine to engage in conventional femininity when it suits her argument, but also she says herself in the video that she doesn’t think there’s such a thing as dressing femininely.
Airtight logic. It’s impossible to understand how people could call Ariel’s argument incoherent and motivated by transphobia 🙄
this whole "issue" is so bizarre to me. I just don't see how any of this is even a problem. So some cis men get off on the idea of themselves as women? Understandable. As a cis woman and a lesbian, I do in fact find being a woman incredibly hot. Cis men feeling the same way doesn't affect me tho? Like, go ahead and be drag queens, live your best life, it's not offending or hurting me at all. And if trans women get off on transitioning or just being women, that also is fine and ok. Whether they "pass" or not is just skin-deep nonsense, what matters is if they're happy. Since when is it suddenly a bad thing if someone can say "damn, I'm so sexy!" And on the reverse, why does no one talk about cis women or trans men wrt this stuff? Back when I was younger and still exploring my sexuality, I liked ERPing online as a gay man. I even ended up really asking myself if I was trans bc I enjoyed it so much. The answer was ultimately no, it's just a kink, but how is that kink any different from autogynephilia? Especially when it comes to harming or offending cis men. It just doesn't.
That being said, I do agree about cis men invading dating apps for lesbians and/or wlw in general. That's just misogyny tho imho. Men being unable to stand women having their own space, as usual. I don't know how that could ever fairly be policed tho.
How is Arielle a whole ass lesbian and complaining that some trans women aren't feminine when PLENTY of lesbians aren't feminine?
I found her videos long ago when I was trying to search for trans lesbian youtubers and her transphobia just turned me away so hard. It was immediate and cruel.
It's funny when you consider how quick the terf-leaning lesbians usually are to say 'you don't have to be a man, you can be a butch woman!' (and to lament about how ~trans ideology~ is "stealing lesbians" but that's another story 🙄)
If u want a trans lesbian youtuber check out contrapoints. She doesn't talk about it alot but she has a video on it
@@merwanerants1917 Thank you!
@Melody Ackerman maybe she is, and she's right to be pissed off when the likes of Riley Dennis say stuff like "if you're a lesbian and won't date a pre op (or even post op) trans woman then you're transphobic" basically saying if the sole reason for not wanting to sleep with someone because they have a penis makes you transphobic, when that's the whole point of being a lesbian. Lesbians don't like penises, there might be the odd one who would but it's usually bi people not full lesbians who would date someone with a penis. What's the problem?
@@melodyvalentine8779 The whole point of being a lesbian is loving women and non-men. You said that Riley included trans women without penises in that context...
If your only reason is that they're trans then 🤷♀️. You don't have to date anyone you don't want to or even look at your preferences for any prejudices. Nobody can force you - it just means it isn't the circle for you.
the way arielle talks about trans women on dating apps and attacking them for “not trying to be feminine” enough to fit her satisfaction is SO MUCH the vibes of misogynistic men who just want women to be catering to their attraction…. yuck yuck yuck
This is why I personally find that the worst misogynism to fight isn't the vocal, "I can catch you on it" men doing or saying things (not that that isn't really damn hard already), it's women, hurting themselves and all those around them because they cannot for the life of them step away from the hate they were brought up in. The hate they were conditioned to accept as the norm.
"If you're not actually experiencing gender dysphoria, if you haven't made any changes at all, don't call yourself a lesbian." In other words if you don't perform your gender identity the way I feel comfortable with, you're not valid...
I think she means no changed behavior, no hair change, wardrobe change, no attempt at all. Not necessarily hormones 😊
Who cares
I feel like a big part of Arielle's growth has been her finding an audience in both reactionary anti-SJW types and TERFs. I remember when she used to only focus on trans men but there really is a lot more to be gained from focusing on trans women
Everytime Arielle says autogynophilia I understand "I don't get a filler" and hey girl, you don't have to. Just as you don't have to be transphobic. So maybe stay in your lane, kiss cis women if you're only attracted to them and stop politicizing other people's lifes.
Does she think that trans women need her approval to be valid? To be recognised as trans women?
@@lapatti Yes, she thinks that and acts accordingly.
I saw this live and already commented this there but this smells so much of privilege. Not every trans person will be in a position either financially or socially to transition fast or present their gender, especially trans women who have been living as very masc men. The fact that trans women are so often the target of hate crimes just adds to the fact that it's not safe for everyone.
Other people don't get to decide if you're really trans or not just because they don't find you attractive.
Ok I don't know how weird this is going to sound.. But well. I am a cis girl who is bi, so I am into women. Sometimes when I see my body in a mirror or something (like before taking a shower) I do think 'damn that's hot', though I do not get aroused. (I don't know if we should judge people who do get aroused at their own image btw...). I don't think there's anything wrong or weird about me finding boobs pretty... because I'm bi. I can't help but think that if I was a trans woman, possible 'autogynephilia' would come into question, when I'm really just queer-. That sucks. This narrative will only stigmatize trans ppl who like their own body/gender presentation, especially if they're queer... It must be confusing for some queer trans women...
The fact that this cis lesbian is trying to push that narrative is so disturbing, i can't stand her
Same honestly I am not like aroused by myself but it’s like damn I look good 🤣
Exactly, I think it’s better for someone to love how their body looks rather than to hate it, so if a trans lady (assuming she found out via dysphoria versus euphoria) is overcoming her dysphoria to the point that she finds herself attractive, we should be celebrating that success she is having instead of spreading misinformation that makes her doubt herself and feel bad/weird.
I wish people like her would spend their time on something actually useful. It’s nothing short of creepy how people like her dedicate so much energy to tearing down and harming trans women; like go plant a community garden, volunteer at an animal shelter, pick up litter- do anything other than target an already stigmatized group of people for simply... existing, and seeking a more comfortable way to exist. Why is that such an issue for her that she must push this narrative? It’s just so mind boggling tbh
I'm a cis bi girl, too. I have the same experience, and like TMI, but I also can get more turned on when I look at myself when I have sex for example lmao, it probably sounds stupid when you put it into words, but I honestly thought it was like pretty normal, they talk about it as if it was wrong being sexually attracted to yourself, but I don't see how it harms anybody else. Policing sexuality and gender expression to that point is stupid and backwards.
@@mwarriorm same, I thought everyone was this way?
Seeing this makes me feel so much better, because thinking I just had a fetish was one of the things that kept me from realizing I was trans for so long. Hearing that it’s normal and healthy to find yourself attractive makes me feel a lot better
Arielle spends whole video criticizing other queer people's appearances. Terfs are the weakest links. Also I agree as a cis bi woman, cishet men harass me the most. My best relationship from an app was with a trans lesbian too. Must be hard for Arielle to understand that kind of love when she's so busy grading everyone on their gender presentations.
It really annoys me most content around LGBT topics are from people like Arielle. It annoys me that she's perfectly ok with right wing media loving her.
The LEFT is full of weirdos? The right is currently melting down about animated candy
@@wghmnb9136 what are you even talking about???
@@wghmnb9136 Well seeing as I was born a female and still identify as a female I don't know what you're talking about. You do know she has fans that aren't trans right?
@@wghmnb9136 I'm just saying assuming I'm trans because the person who made the video is trans is quite a giant leap.
Now judging by your comments you don't support trans people or gay people, why would those people want to be part of the right when the right clearly doesn't want them. Makes no sense to me why people like Blair White and Ariella want the right wing types to like them when by your own admission you don't like them
@@wghmnb9136 I'm replying to the original comment. You assuming I'm trans, when I'm actually a straight woman who was born a woman is what got us off track here.
Why in the world would anyone want to be a part of a group who openly hates them
This conversation is so particularly uncomfortable to me as an androgynous woman because often time not looking “feminine” enough has kept me out of female spaces as a cisgender woman. And also has gotten me harassed and bullied in female spaces. I also know there’s a long history of cisgender lesbians/bisexual women who are masculine also being discriminated against. Something you’d think she’d be more aware of. I don’t understand why we can’t extend the same Courtesy of understanding to trans women who we deem to be not “feminine” enough. Like literally what does that even mean? TERFS always say this and it’s so weird because is so anti feminism to claim that there’s a way to feminize yourself. I agree with your point on hyper-femininity a lot.
It’s kind of funny that terfs simultaneously decry trans women “sexistly reinforcing gender stereotypes” but also invalidate trans women who aren’t stereotypically “feminine enough”. We can’t win 😂!
I think terfs would actually firmly believe it's wrong and unjust the way you are treated
Looks and proclivity do not matter.
It's biology.
@@HumanimalChannel it’s right to vilify someone’s look based on biology then? Doesn’t seem much better. Seems hateful.
@@beatlebob101 biology... male female. Many different looks within either.
And some people live with gender disphoria. Thisnis very distressing for them, I d9nt sweet and its very serious
This type of content feels like very old anti sjw videos like, and conservatives was like upset at Conchita Wurst winning eurovision, even though she's a drag queen and not a trans women. It's very tiring.
Conservatives don't understand the difference between a trans man or drag queen so videos like this one appeals to their confusion since basically theyre labeling unfem trans women as just crossdressers. Its really quite gross and harms transwomen because now conservatives will sling around this Autogynephilic word for every transwomen who they dont find pretty or sexy
Conchita Wurst is not a trans woman, but their creator is openly non-binary !
I`m a cis lesbian and i`d totally do myself, even tho i'm not my type at all , guess i got a fetish according to these ppl. But yeah lets demonize ppl being confident in themselves.
Also if I see someone early in transition on a dating app it literally doesnt affect me at all? If im not attracted to them i just swipe past, one second needed, who cares? They still deserve to look for love and affection?
appreciate ypu talking about men and couples on lesbians apps, but yeah, nothing to do with trans women, from experience its mostly cishet couples.
Exactly, if you as a cis lesbian don’t want to date trans women, then you’re totally free not to date us. But that doesn’t mean that we should be banned from trying to find a woman (cis or trans, whatever you’re personally into) that is into us
Also arielle literally erased butch, masc, and stud lesbians hello?? "Woman have to be feminine" is like basic misogyny lol????
TERFs throw masculine cis women under the bus all the time unfortunately, and say it’s just “collateral damage”
What is the purpose of slapping random photos of trans women that aren't up to Arielle's personal standard of femininity throughout the video? Is it _just_ to be rude? Because I can't think of anything else.
She seems to think trans lesbians who don't fit her beauty standards are basically automatically this weird sex things, instead of people just living their lives.
Plenty of transwomen literally identify as autogynephilic and state that autogynephilia is the main reason they identify as trans, are you accusing them of lying?
@@intrusive-th0t It clearly isn't what she's doing. There's a difference between a category overlapping with another does not mean that either fully encompasses the other.
Yeah. A lot of people tend to assume that when someone is not "normal" according to their preconceived notions of "normal" that something is wrong, very often in whatever way either frightens, disgusts or exites them the most.
Kat is so pretty 😩. Skin is glowing 🙌🏾
Side note/ Edit: Arielle must be struggling with dating or finding a partner because I just don’t understand why she cares so much about trans people. Like for what reason does she need to be in their business so heavily? When she made a video after Elliot Page transitioned, complaining about lesbians disappearing, is when I really started wondering why she’s all in trans people’s business. If she doesn’t want to date a trans woman, she doesn’t have to and that should be it. She seems obsessed at this point.
@ThisMariaH So, what you're saying is, if we just get her into Gaming or K-Pop reaction videos or something else that drives engagement up ... she'll stop being a transphobe? I'd say worth a try :D
How does her dating life and her multi trans videos have to do with each other. Like totally diffrent and nothing in common.....weird
@@src3360 she says lesbians are disappearing bc of trans people, so maybe that means she can't find any lesbians anymore 🤷🏽♀️
@@karik.8291 unfortunately people making gaming content have a lot of incentive to be transphobic too, just look at how many subscribers james Stephanie sterling lost when they said that Scott Cawthorn donating to organisations trying to take away trans peoples rights was a bad thing.
@@srtatropicalia
Where have all the lesbians gone....
Lol
This is just transphobia with extra steps. 🤷
Exactly. Hit the nail on the head.
What extra steps?
@@vxicepickxv basically cutting up trans women's sexuality into itty bitty pieces of "you're not trans if you are aroused by your own femininity " or "you're not trans if you don't transition right" whatever. Assessing & judging other's sexuality and gender is always trans/homophobic 🙁
@@wghmnb9136 oh yes it does
@@raphaeldububuchim6983 Wrong.
The dating app thing is SO WEIRD whyyyy are you talking to people you don't want to date? Which apps let you talk to someone without matching with them first? Like, I'm tempted to say people are being rude to her rejections because she made them transphobicly but I don't honestly believe these interactions happened at all.
And ugh, so as a cis bi/ace woman, lesbians being weepy about having to encounter trans women in dating apps and sapphic spaces is so weird to me. What is this idea that you have to be attracted to everyone you see in an app or at a bar? I agree cis men encroaching on these spaces is bad behavior and I too would like them to stop, but there's this other piece to the way people like Arielle talk about "men in lesbian spaces" that feels to me like they are like oh yeah it's fine and normal for straight and bi/pan women to deal with men being awful, but if lesbians ever encounter them it's the end of the word. I think it's the gender essentialism that makes me feel this way, because it seems like when she's talking about trans women taking rejection badly she's trying to invoke common experiences straight women have. By framing the discussion this way it's like she's saying it's s not bad when men do that to straight women that's just how men are.
I think they just hate men
When I was first transitioning a gender specialist once asked me if I got sexual gratification from dressing as my true self, I was so shocked and offended and I asked him if he got sexual gratification from wearing a shirt and tie!
Not everyone finds themselves sexually attractive, but it’s totally fine to explore gender in this way, realizing you’re trans because you’re aroused by presenting as a different gender is completely valid. Gender and sexuality are so fucky and can interact in lots of fucky ways sometimes. Everyone is different.
ok yeah because there is stuff i want to say but i worry it will end up on a truscum site now. i am genderfluid and i have different feelings towards all sides of me both euphoria and attraction (also worthy to note I am pansexual so it kind of makes sense even more so)
I rewatched the Contrapoints video on autogynophilia before I watched this video and I was reminded about how strange and unscientific the theory is. It’s so annoying to see it pollute the discourse. Also, your point about Arielle’s video being disjointed and unconvincing is so true, I feel like anti-trans people will often make these underdeveloped arguments and people just eat it up.
I don’t get the logic that autogynephiles are less feminine. Like, if someone has a fetish for themselves as a woman, wouldn’t that mean that they’d want to present as high femme as possible? Trans women who are say, a soft butch, likely wouldn’t be autogynephiles (according to the logic in which it’s even a thing that trans women are this thing), because she isn’t putting in effort to be as feminine as possible.
Also, Arielle is a lesbian, and yet she’s dismissing all futch and butch trans women because they aren’t feminine enough? She’s a lesbian! Cis women are still women when butch.
The entire thing is completely lacking in logic.
*quote* Trans women who are say, a soft butch, likely wouldn’t be autogynephiles *quote* so, the word autogynephilia does not apply to trans women because the definition of the word is "men who are attracted to themselves as a woman" and trans women are not men.
To me this seems like they're just looking at gender euphoria and twisting it into something perverse. Gender euphoria is fucking great and being trans doesn't have to be awful and scary exclusively
All the so-called crossdressing fetishists I knew in 2008 are happily transitioned today. All of them. Some non-binary and most binary.
Probably because sexuality is a common way actual identity comes to the surface, I suspect that Gender Euphoria is in part the alleviation of repressed unconscious gender dysphoria.
Blanchard’s typology falls apart with the data that the majority orientation of Trans people is Bi, with equal numbers of Gay/Lesbian and Straight in the remainder.
And now there’s multiple genetic studies showing multiple genetic links to Trans involving sex hormone signalling genes and the genetic pathways of neurological sex development Blanchard’s and anyone else’s claims of any psychological causation subset first has to prove there’s a cohort absent any of the genetic links. Which should already be showing up in the genetic studies and isn’t.
Autogynephilia is essentially a concept that makes trans women out to be predatory for feeling sexy once they transition.
Basically
And for being lesbians and/or for not passing
yup it's bs, and ignores you can be tr@ns and find female bodies s3xy without one causing the others.
@@ddjsoyenby That’s really the basis of it all. Something has to cause us being trans. We can’t just happen to be trans and also be something else at the same. So what about asexual trans people? Are they autogynephiles or are they homosexual transsexuals?
Autogynephilia rhetoric is identical to anti-masturbation rhetoric put forward by religious hacks - "If you masturbate it's a sign you love yourself and that makes you sinful, homosexual, and narcisisstic"
All this highbrow pathologization of diverse identity is is just propoganda from rich, white, Christian racists.
What I would have wished for in this video is the clarification what an effing transphobe Ray Blanchard is. He specifically coined the term autogynephilia to 'explain' trans women who were not exclusively interested in men. To him it's not just men with a paraphilia, it's men with such an extreme version of said paraphilia that this is then creating dysphoria, which in turn re-enforces the idea of trans women as creepy sexual deviants. His concept of 'homosexual' trans women (trans women exclusively interested in men) is not much better, as he essentially thinks of them as men _so_ gay they need to transition so they can date straight men. Also interestingly he never really talks about trans men, it's pretty much always trans women. Everything Blanchard has ever put forward is just transmisogynist bullshit, and it has been harmful as heck too.
transphobes always bring up transwomen having facial hair as “proof” of them not being “real women” but like….. im a ciswoman who can grow a mustache, just because i’m naturally very hairy. so am i also not a “real woman”? lmao i’ve just never understood that logic
Same here!! I've even been mistaken a couple of times for a non-passing trans woman even though I am in fact a cis woman who just happens to have facial hair on my chin and around my lips; I have to effing SHAVE MY CHIN every morning to avoid looking "unkempt".
I grow a single chin hair that i refer to as my beard
I'm a cis girl and I've been shaving my upper lip since puberty. If I introduced myself as a trans woman to somebody like Arielle she'd probably think I didn't pass particularly well 😂
Also laser is painful and expensive soooo....
Cis women with PCOS (Polycystic Ovary Syndrome) aren't "real women" according to her logic.
This is perfect timing for me. It’s like people always have to find a reason to keep this like hate boner for trans people and especially nonpassing trans people. Thanks for making this and I’m so sorry for blaming you for something you didn’t do. I was(and am) going through a lot but it was wrong of me to come on here and say you have an issue with non passing trans people when you don’t.
"she is cool with THIS woman because she's not into women" SO TRUE. fucking embarassing
Agree with your take partway through about femininity being used as a judgement. It completely excludes the fact that non feminine cis women exist.
Arielle Scarcella is engaging in the same kind of respectability politics as Blaire White: "I'm the right kind of X, and those people are the wrong kind of X, and I'll attack them in hope you will accept me."
And unfortunately for them, they aren't going to be accepted. So they're fucking the rest of us over for no payoff.
@@devent10n yh it's like that debate with Blaire white and even further right conservatives, Blaire was pickmeing her absolute hardest and the others were still like 'nah you're poisoning society'
The respectability crap annoys me. I used to engage with a transwoman on social media who presented herself as a respectable trans woman. Of course she never showed her face. Just an anime avatar. I later on found out why. Turns out she is into ABDL. I have seen pictures of her in an ABDL diaper with a pacifier. I know it's her because of some old youtube videos where the voice matches up with videos she did under her anime avatar. Of course there is nothing with ABDL. I don't kink shame. But if people found out she was into ABDL; she wouldn't have been viewed as respectable.
I am definitely not one of the respectable trans women. I don't hide the fact that I am into kink. I don't exist to bow down to the norms of cishet vanilla society. I am not the official representative of trans women. So I don't need to present myself in a manner that makes cishets comfortable.
@doesnot matter at it's most basic level you are correct. Men are not woman. And Women are not men. Which is why I and every other trans woman is not a man.
@doesnot matter I am certainly crazy. But not because I am trans. My crazy is connected with my autism.
But to be serious, this whole "Who's a real trans" debate just feel likes a mute point in terms of trying to achieve our political goals. Like what does it matter if someone is a "true trans" or not, if they are getting kicked out of the same bathrooms other trans people are? What does it matter if a transwoman has facial hair, if she is being fired along side other transwomen who don't have facial hair? Like, transphobia is going to happen whether or not we all look perfect. My nonbinary ass isn't the reason for systemic oppression, and debating my trans status will not make cisgender people be nicer to you.
you may not care about womens fears but it also matters because transgender people will end up on the bottom of lists when it comes to help for things like mental health and other things if any old man can just say hes a woman when he feels like it. and it means, men pretending to be trans who do abuse such abilities will end up damaging the view of trans people in society.
Is the "mute point" on purpose or a TV show reference?
@@IshtarNike I think they meant "moot point"
*moot point and I mean yeah she's a bad actor and it is important we call out bad actors like Ariella and deconstruct the logical fallacies they utilize because they're also holding up the patriarchy and white supremacy it's really fucking scary. If a woman or female presenting persons measure of whether she can live without constant harassment and fetishization is by how passing, feminine, and how in service of the male gaze she is that doesn't bare well for any women or female presenting people be them cis or trans. I don't actually understand the point of your comment though who is debating whether enbys are really trans isn't this video about specifically trans lesbians being accused of being Autogynephiles due to them not passing at least in Ariellas eyes? Also the Terf is cis so I assume cis people are perfectly pleasant to her.
@@lotus3222 yeah, i’m sure cis men will be clamoring to humiliate themselves in the eyes of their guy friends by pretending they’re trans to do crimes they can already do as cis men, and won’t largely continue to avoid associating with feminine or womanly things at all to protect their masculinity.
My biggest issue with people like Arielle is that they never define what "trying" actually is in terms of trans presentation. As you said, not everyone who is trans can afford to turn themselves form masculine to obviously feminine & that doesn't inherently mean they aren't or haven't made any effort. Like she pulls those Tinder pics with zero context and pretends they're all disingenuous but has no idea which people are at the start of their journey, which people have had confirmation surgery, which aren't interested in committing to confirmation surgery, which do indeed experience dysphoria, which are just starting hormone therapy or which might be rocking beards because they want to and not because they're just straight guys playing pretend. Her BS argument relies on not just laying her personal subjective ideas on what a transwoman needs to look like but also on completely separating out the lived experiences of the people she's judging. Like if wearing a dress is enough for some random transwoman or if said transwoman only came to terms with their identity at age 40 instead of in elementary school, what authority does Arielle have to claim that that isn't enough effort to put in to actually respect that person's self-identity?
Her also not considering that it isn't safe for some people to be totally out...
As simplistic as it seems, it's interesting to me how much bigotry boils down to an obsessive fear that you'll somehow be coerced into sex with a person you don't find attractive. I think you hit the nail on the head when you characterized people who get accused of being autogynephiles as (1) presenting masculine and (2) wanting to sleep with women - and also with the thing about Arielle only having beef with trans women who like women.
I can get it. And it's a valid fear to have. But at the same time, if that's the real issue, then confront the real issue. -_-
9:00 this is what happens when a community is pathologized and psychologically profiled by people who are choosing to follow their own bias vs data provided by those with lived experience.
This video just reminds me why I unsubscribed from Arielle years and years ago. She's just doubled down on her ignorance. She's the kinda woman that curses the world for why she's still single, but she's her own biggest problem.
fr getting major tim pool type of vibes "its not me its modern feminism"
@@ghoulishtoad I didn't even know who Tim Pool was until your comment. After a quick google search, I can safely say I hate him. 😂
she's the woman version of an inc3l tbh.
@@ddjsoyenby that's the perfect way to describe her 🤣
So I always wonder where I, as a gay trans man, fit into Blanchard's idea of gender and sex? You can't say I am autogynephilic and you can't say I am the 'homosexual type' trans man (i.e. het trans men who used to identify as lesbian) as I am attracted to men. How often do you see autoandrophilia talked about?
LOL people with beards calling themselves lesbians. You don't seem to mind it when those bearded lesbians are trans men tho...
There's a far less transphobic and pathological label called autosexuality that acknowledges people can be attracted to or arousing to themselves. It acknowledges it's a normal spectrum ranging from the ability to get off with no one else (like most of us do), to the use of mirrors during play, to finding your image arousing, to perfering yourself as a partner to other people, etc. This is independent of gender, transness, or queerness. It would include every possible way this could be expressed. From straight cis woman, to cross-dressing men, to trans men who just find themselves hot regardless of their current state of transition. It acknowledge that this is a real experience without excluding nuance of experience or pathologizing transwomen or cross dressers.
@@theenbythatgirl No problem!
Is it just me, or would Ana Guy n’Filla make a GREAT drag name?
okay but like trans people can become way more comfortable in their sexuality after transitioning and looking more like themselves
from an outsider perspective that might seem like they're sexually attracted to themselves but it's not the same
also even if a trans person is attracted to themself when they present more like their gender is "supposed" to present, that doesn't change that they're trans??
ALSO why do people think all trans women have to be hyperfeminine in order to be trans- i don't get it omfg
I'm a trans gay man and I'd imagine myself as a man in sexy situations... Does that make me auto-andro-phyllic or whatever? Is there even a term for that? Probably not since this is mostly a ploy to frame trans women as predatory.
I mean jfc, many trans people are dysphoric with the way their bodies currently are, so wouldn't it just make sense to be more 'excited' about how their bodies could be once they're able to transition?
Or what about gay cis men who work out a lot? I can bet they find themselves sexy to some extent or at least their aim is to become more visually appealing to themselves and others. I've also got cis lesbian friends who I hear calling themselves sexy as well, seems like... It's actually a sign of improving self esteem if you can look in the mirror and go "damn ;)" a little bit.
Of course there's also people who have specific fetishes but I wouldn't say that they're more common than just... Trans women feeling themselves a bit.
this is exactly it! seeing myself as a woman is the first time i have actually liked my body to any degree! Pretty sure everyone has an internal barometer of whether they feel attractive or not too... so it is as if they're trying to connect those two and frame it to make us look bad. They've taken something that's normal for cis people, attached a medical sounding term to it, and made it out to be weird when we do the same but with our gender actually being congruent with how we're seeing ourselves.
Alot of comments are confusing me with how they are using terms. I am an autogynephiliac. @finpin You would not be an autoandrophiliac because you are a man and autoandrophilia is for women only and also you said you are gay and both (of the auto) terms are autosexual, not homosexual and I believe they are mutually exclusive. People trying to use labels to shame others are just wrong and I'm sorry if anyone feels judged and/or ashamed.
'A whole beard and everythign!11!!1' The amount of people who've never heard of PCOS astounds me
Even if a person is an autogynophile, why is that held up like a piece of evidence in a cartoon show? There’s little that exists that some person isn’t into so I wouldn’t be surprised if autogynophelia as described in the video was a thing for a few people, trans or not.
Personally I don’t see how it is inherently a problem.
4:27 Arielle: "i'm not transphobic, i have a transmedicalist trans friend :)"
i'm completely over the conversation about wlw spaces and who can and can't be a part of it. i have resigned myself to the fact that a space for women to meet each other (esp online) is just not viable. on one side you have cishet men/unicorn hunters and on the other, you have people like fucking arielle. i'm tired. i hated arielle back when you got into it with her in 2013 and i still hate her now lmao
7 years after coming out as a woman I want nothing to do with any gendered space.
Autogynephilia isn't even unique to trans women, in as much as it's even like a ""real"" thing. There was a small study done that showed that cis women also were "autogynephilic". Autogynephilia has been largely dismissed by reputable trans health experts, but when cis women are given the questionnaire that is supposed to determine if trans women are autogynephilic, it turns out that cis women are as well.
Again, this was a small study. There's a lot more to be learned on this subject. Whether these results hold up in a larger study, whether "autogynephilia" is an intrinsic part of women's sexuality, or human sexuality, etc. etc.
@Auna Remington i dont think it said they were straight
@Auna Remington Theres plenty not straight cis women
women are sexualized in every single way, so a woman feeling sexy or attractive is not the same as a man pretending to be a woman and getting off on it...
@Auna Remington It wasn't that they were aroused by themselves just that the questionnaire used to test for autogynephilia was extremely biased. Any desire to look attractive and feminine, wanting others to see you as attractive, and gaining satisfaction from it made you "autogynephilic".
I'm probably completely off base here considering "autogynophilia" isn't a thing..... but how much of that "diagnosis" would you consider as a side effect of the pervasiveness of the male gaze?
I get the vibe she was tired of seeing people she’s not attracted to on the dating apps she uses so she made this rant video to scare them off instead of just swiping left and moving on with her day.
Why would a trans woman be friends with Arielle? Lol. It’s very confusing to me
Most people befriend her to gain fame from her and it doesnt work.thats why most trans folks whove worked with her have come out against her
@@KatBlaque Ah that makes sense
This may be a little off topic but while watching this I was stunned by how Kat was able to just sit through videos like these insulting so much about her very being and the most foundational parts of friends of hers.
I am a cis woman who has never had to struggle through something as profound and world changing as transitioning my gender, so I could never pretend to understand and feel trans topics to a deep level, all I can do is try to empathise and try my hardest...
But oh boy, I get so annoyed and crabby when I watch a video with a opinion I strongly disagree with, let alone something as profoundly insulting as some of these videos that Kat watches... The fact that she can just sit there without getting mad and let these assholes get to her... I really admire that.
Aw thanks. You have to imagine ive been having this conversation for most of my life. You learn to laugh at it
@@KatBlaque Still something to be proud of, how you can stop a video and calmly point out things rather than get mad, I wish you never had to get used to it.
The thing that I found most interesting when i watched her video earlier was that she would like.. not let her guest talk for herself. She'd ask her a question and then answer for her. She'd ask her about her own experience and then immediately start answering for her with assumptions as to what she believes her experience should be.
"It would seem sort of sexist to describe a woman's experience as one dedicated to hyperfemininity." Uh, shyeah!
I've dealt with AGP symptoms since I was like 4-5, it distresses me and I'd like for it to go away. I am currently 18 now
"They're trans women so they have to be hyper feminine." This is the crux of the issue right here! People like Arielle can only accept trans people within the strict confines of gender stereotypes. They deny that gender is a construct and that you don't have to look or act a certain way in order to identify a certain way. Her saying that real trans women talk differently than fake ones is absurd! Everybody talks differently. I once dated a trans man who wasn't able to take hormones because they interfered with his bipolar medicine. He had short hair but basically looked like a butch lesbian. He wasn't sure if he wanted to get surgery because of price and other risk factors so most people just considered him to be a woman. They denied his gender identity because he didn't fit into their box of what a man should look like. This is wrong on so many levels. Your gender is based on who you are inside, not what you look like on the outside.
The whole "autogynaphilia" argument breaks down at me, a masculine enby who crossdresses, but also loves men
When I used to use dating apps, specifically Tinder (this was like 2014/15 btw). I've looked for women and you'll find the occasional poly person or couple looking to "price things up", and often times I would see men. And it's not like a trans women who haven't transitioned, it's not nonbinary people who just look masculine. It is literally men who set their gender as "female" and it always annoyed me. Like, it's so gross, because I wanted to date a woman or afab person, not see fucking Chad with his group of bros and you're not too sure who is who. I just don't understand their reasoning as to why they're bringing this up? It's not trans women who pretend to be women (they're not even pretending) it's the obvious cismen who set their gender to female on Facebook (when Tinder was connected to your Facebook page I don't know if it is anymore) as a laugh to be like "hahaha wouldn't it be funny!" and just be absolute arseholes to lesbians, bisexual, pansexual, etc. women and afab folks who are looking for people like them to date.
Transphobes are just... wild. I see so many of them call out trans people in sports, obviously, but it's worse when it affects masculine looking women. They talk about how they're men, but they're just masculine women??? Like, does your feminism not include masc women? Because you're invalidating a bunch of lesbians who are butch or look masculine. Like. FARTS are just, they're something else. Autogynephilia is so overused, like shut up.
everytime i hear "this is a man thing" and "this is a woman thing" it makes me cringe so hard. a lesbian should know thats not really a thing right?? nothing is exclusive to certain genders?? how many butch lesbians has she met im genuinely curious.
In this country you have to have proof of social transition to medically transition. So in order to take the path to potentially "passing" you have to live as your gender with little to no chance of "passing" for usually a year, plus waiting list times and the time it takes most hormones to take effect, and no reputable practicioner will green light you for surgery without you having been on hormones for usually at least six months. What do these people expect trans people to do in the meantime? Completely avoid dating and romance because they might make cis people uncomfortable? Just never go outside or exist in public as a trans person? Oh wait-