T Pott 100% spot on, Geoff is either oblivious or is purposely trying to sugarcoat it because it will effect his bottom dollar. T pott is a man of true character
Couldn’t agree more with you. Geoff is friends with a lot of executives for these companies (suppliers and buyers) and has to keep that relationship going. T Pot is only scratching the surface. Breakers who consistently pull rare 1/1’s are getting help beyond just CT scanning.
@@t-pott4504I completely agree with you. Genuinely. It’s not easy to share your honest feelings in that setting. To me, it shows a lot about your character, that you were willing to say what you did, in that situation. Good stuff.
I like Geoff a lot. I think he is a great guy and has done a lot for “the hobby” but as a man with millions invested in various card related investments (plus a ton of expensive sealed wax) he has too much to lose in all this to give an impartial opinion.
same- I respect Geoff's opinions a LOT- he's clearly sharp. But I can't help thinking his take on this is purely to protect to his breaking business. I agree wholeheartedly with Tpot
Geoff only suggests that you'd have to send your cards to a company for scanning..if your a huge breaker, you'd OWN one...used ct scanners are about $1500....
@@jakefarmer3122 Unfortunately the good guys like T-Pott are not part of the good ole boys network. And those are the guys that control the industry. And Geoff is more or less a pawn like the rest of us. He's not in with the grubby distributors breakers and graders.
Public: "Congress should not be trading millions of dollars in stock on insider tips" Geoff: "Well you all aren't trading millions in stock because you don't have it. Don't worry about it" The point is NO ONE should have an advantage at all. Stop being elitist.
@zachsabbath1 I’d actually like that. Besides the obvious reasons of getting rid of some of the scams and shady business. Coming from someone that rips a ton of wax, having regulations in place will also thin out the breaking community making the boxes cheaper bc the demand will be less.
Geoff has to say these things because he has so much invested in selling wax. He has to say that everyone should keep buying wax and that this conspiracy won’t hurt values because he has money on the line. There’s no way to know what he really thinks, he is a snake oil salesman, you can’t trust a word out of his mouth.
T Pot is 100% correct. Additionally, CT tech has been around for decades and old machines are not hard to find. The only safe wax now is direct from mfg. All old (valuable) wax is now suspect unless the provenance is impeccable, which is really impossible. For example, 2023/24 Panini Prizm Basketball Hobby 12 Box Case sells for $18K, plenty of financial incentive to scan it, then figure the economics of how to max your value on the case. This is an easy exploit that I imagine is already being exploited.
Old Boxes should always stay SEALED, Newer Boxes should be Opened. Exactly Pal.... Also there are many overhyped Items out there, overpriced as F.... many Fraudsters out there Claiming "This is theee & this is that only One Bla bla bla" folks forget that they just want to sell you shxx which actually is not that Valueable
Wow T-Pott .. I’m very impressed. Your judge Judy analogy was awesome. You sure you don’t have a calling in law? Lol. I agreed with Geoff for the most part, but man T-Pott made me realize this is a bigger deal than I thought. Great civil discussion gentleman.
@@t-pott4504You are correct. Imagine how many people leveraged up to purchase sealed products just to hold it with the expectation that it would continue to increase in price over time. Now they just saw a lot of that paper wealth evaporated and we'll have to wait to see how comps come in as a new market price is established over time. It's like the housing crisis in 2008. People thought their houses were a sound investment until the subprime crisis exploded property value. Except in this instance, the value of the boxes are inherently permanently impaired; similar to a home going underwater because of global warming. And as the prices of these boxes decrease in values, the hits from these boxes will decrease in price too. Both because the supply of hits will increase as people open the good boxes and because the cost to break the boxes will fall. And as the box prices fall the reference prices for the hits will decrease too. Any smart investor should be selling their key items, or their whole collection, at whatever good price they can now before the market finds a new floor. Because that floor could be 50% or more below where it is now. Tpott you have my respect. Before I thought you were a little too conservative with your takes. But I realize now you are very honest but just focus on the data. And when this CT scanner information came out you have been speaking more proactively about what you saw before and how this new information relates to the numbers you analyzed. Keep up the good work.
There is a very painful tension for an entrepreneur who owns a new big box card store as well as a media operation with a core mission of recording and projecting hobby trends. I think it shows great integrity that T-Pott repeated his core argument about the future of wax, and I’m really glad Geoff confronted it on camera. This was a super difficult but necessary discussion.
Agree with T-Pott 100%. It wouldn't surprise me to discover a distributor and/or breaker were involved in scanning boxes and selling specific spots to friends/family. It would be very easy to hide this kind of activity and with millions at stake it would be very enticing
Wake up Geoff. I'm a breaker with a scanner. I scan and know all the cards. I sell the hits to my associates. Everyone still sees the hits, I get the PR and the CARD. DUH
My girlfriend who knows relatively nothing about the card collecting hobby heard what I heard at 12:25 and we both let out the loudest laugh ever. My guy, this hobby is FILLED with shysters and con men. To think otherwise is foolish.
I completely agree with this. Maybe let 1 or 2 get through, but if they scanned all those hits beforehand, they wouldn't have opened them all for breaks. (Backyard)
@@cardguy20 they’ll open the boxes containing the big hits to get the views and popularity but they’ll be sure there friends or family are the ones who bought the spot in the break so they can funnel the card back to them or sell it for the money
Thank you T POT for having common sense. Put Geoff in his place. Either he is trying to save his ass because he obviously is in the card business or he is willfully being ignorant.
Cmon Geoff. How isn’t CT scanning boxes a big deal. You of all ppl should feel like it’s a big deal especially with The amount of high end wax you have. But at same time it makes perfect sense on why your downplaying this bc of the amount of high end wax you have.
WRONG! WRONG! and WRONG!!! Breakers could tell their friends to buy a team in the break knowing where the Hit would be and then it would look like they are hitting big for a random person when in reality they double dip by having the Hit and selling the hit! How is Geoff this naive?
Jabs Family used to (and probably still does this) For years he had a person named Linda that would get all of the top spots and just so happened to always come away with the big auto hits. It could be a case of Archives Signature edition. Everyone else gets $5 autos yet here was Linda getting Trout and Griffey autos.
Completely agree with T-Pot. I no longer want to buy any sealed wax from a card shop, eBay seller, or card show. I will only buy hobby direct from Topps, Panini, Upper Deck.
No they aren't because we've got apologists saying things like "if you're a breaking company you WANT to let your customers know you have all the big hits!" First of all, breakers have ruined the hobby. Demand is artificially inflated because these grifters are buying it all up. Second, now we're saying we want distributors possibly scanning boxes and shipping to only favored breakers. Such a horrible take from Geoff in this video.
Backyard Breaks will be scared when this bubbles up to the DOJ. There is too much money at risk here for important people. Rubin probably underestimates the impact now, but the numbers won't lie in a couple of years if they don't figure out a solution.
Thats the name I was trying to remebr they hit a logomman then a week later a triple logoman If I remember they for sure Been scanning someone said the odds were rarer then powerball
CT machines use X-rays. A simple solution moving forward would be to include an inexpensive X-ray sticker on the box and under the seal that shows exposure to CT scanning. That’s the only sealed box of significant value I would purchase.
I’m a CPA, and I’ve got to agree with T-Pot..when I first started my career statistics were used quite a bit to assess risk. I can tell you, I’ve seen things in this hobby that raise every red flag I have. No way no how are some of the “unbelievable” hits I have seen in these breaks legitimately random. Nice? Probable. Twice? Highly unlikely. Repeatedly against all odds? Nope.
especially when they call out the card they pull before even opening the box/pack. Essentially it is a slap in the face to everyone in the hobby. Like, no one knows you scan cards and got away with it for some time, now you call out the card. That it is in that box, pack 4, and as you're flipping through the cards you're like here it comes.... gold select /10 Ganna's. Only other explanations, mutants or fortune tellers are real and they can see the future.
I've seen the greed of man in the hobby for a long time. It shouldn't be underestimated. And I would look to China to see what's happening there because CT scanners are cheap to get there.
Im a doctor. I have a CT scanner at my office. I scanned a few hobby boxes that I've been holding and I can also confirm that you can see foiling, embossing, sticker autos, and patches. This is a huge problem as it can be done for cheaper than $75 per pack. My guess is that it can be done for $5-$10 per pack eventually. I don’t hold wax anymore. I've open all my hobby boxes with some nice hits I might add...😂
I Live in new zealand. For 100nzd ($50usd) my local vet will scan an entire case. In nz we have no retail cards shops but we can buy online. I have bought 3 x cases of a product from an online retailer here and have never pulled a case hit.. Ive purchased a box of flawless 2 boxes of optic and other high end wax and hit nothing. Tla product is worse. Ive purchased 19 boxes and never had anything other than a box hit. Geoff you maybe right that this isnt a problem in the states where the cost is prohibitive but here in australasia - its a big problem. I will no longer buy wax and the retailers i sell product too have advised customers have started asking if the boxes have been scanned and no longer wish to buy packs. Breakers are bad for the hobby and very very bad for wholesalers and now secondary retailers
Way to put Geoff in his place TPot! He definitely was wrong and glad you said what you said. Little does he know, you saved him from getting Blasted in the comments. What Geoff isn’t realizing is yeah 99% won’t do this but 10-15% of the boxes on resale market will get scanned and that alone is gonna keep 20-25% that woulda bought a box not to buy a box. Hence boxes losing value because of that 10-15% of those that will have the ability to scan them
T Pott probably going to get future endeavoured if he keeps trashing his “boss” on that channel. He was over there whining how his “boss” and Doug were laughing at him for peddling conspiracies.
I like Geoff but of course he wants to make everyone believe it’s no big deal. He is making a killing on cards and the last thing he wants is the giant money guys packing it up.
Geoff I hope you read this. You are currently right. However, technology only gets better, smaller, and more affordable over time. Examples are cars, planes, phones, you name it. You can get older CT scanner models now. 5-10 years from now everyone will have access to this technology if there is money to be made, and there is. What you are overlooking is the future state of wax not the current state. Like T-Pott said, "The longer it goes on, the more problematic it becomes". Translated: This is going to spread to the rest of the 99%. I wouldn't be surprised if someone figures out a way to scan boxes with your phone in the future. Are you telling me that none of your SUPERHERO INTEGRITY SELLERS/BREAKERS wouldn't scan their inventory, with a potential 5-6-7 figure card in their product, open the ones with the valuable/desired hits and sell the rest with easy access to the technology? This is going to flush wax down the drain. No one else will want to waste their time or money. You might end up using most of your wax collection for toilet paper in the future.
You're only saying that "it's no big deal" because you have all your $$ tied up in sports cards!!! If people stop buying wax or the hobby suffers in any way because of this YOU SUFFER FINANCIALLY !!! Let's be real, you're financially bound to downplay this problem !!! You're not looking out for anyone's interest but your own !!!
I just want to say thank you for having an actual conversation about this even if you all disagree on it! Its very refreshing to hear and know you all still respect each other in the end! Great show! TPot you won me over with this episode buddy!
he would honestly be stupid NOT to buy one and then go on the grail wax hunts. Anyone with money should be doing that. You have millions in high end missing cards in sealed wax- and a CT scanner starts at 80k.....
If you’re a poker player who knows the name Mike Postle, you know that statistical evidence of this nature is not so easy to get through the court system
There is an EASY way for breakers to get away with it by not involving any employees/non owners! All they have to do is set up the CT scanner in another location, get delivery at that other location, scan it there, then transport the cases to the the breaking studio location after. Then only the CT scan operator and the owner know about it. The CT scan operator is getting paid very well and has plausible deniability because scan boxes is legal and they won’t know the intentions of the owner. So now only the owner really know what is going on.
The main problem is that unopened is now like buying a car. Once you get it, the price will more than likely plummet, because there's no longer a traceable provenance if you want to sell.
CT scanning most likely will never have an impact on me directly. But the perception is that the big guys are able to cheat and pull one over on the little guys like me. It just leaves a bad taste in your mouth
Agree with T Pot here. Geoff’s best interest to defend an industry that he’s majorly invested in, it’s his livelihood….but we all know half the industry is weasel grown men that would push a kid at Target to flip for a buck. Now it’s hard to trust any sealed product. And even if I’m truthful about selling sealed, the consumer buying it from me has doubt. Even if 99% of boxes are unscanned. The doubt is there. The technology is there.
WRONG! Really bad foresight and logic Geoff! 1st the cost will come down on CT scanning to the point it will be $1 a pack to scan. 2nd breakers can have a local person scan their boxes the same day! Also there are now MOBILE CT scanners that are meant for bedside brain scans in a hospital if a patient should not be moved. Those scanners are cheaper than the massive ones. So breakers can have it done in their offices the same day. And if that is case then they can pay a one time fee, let’s say $3k and have all of their cases and boxes scanned. Just pulling one massive card makes up for that cost!
you can EASILY find CT scanners... I am talking VERY easy... old medical grade equipment sits for years in warehouses and public auctions (not meeting min bids). You have to realize it will get MASSIVELY easier as well. Once people try to experiment with this, amateur programmers can code CT programs/plugins to better suit workflow for scanning boxes and packs 100x faster (seeking specific frames of references using AI to recognize patterns on cards very quickly). Geoff is also vastly underestimating the hands that product will go through. Not only his business but by logistics, distributors, secondhand (as a lot of product is scalped), multiple other parties and all in between. If CT processes becomes 100x faster and 100x more accessible, a reroute, a quick scan, and one bad party in the chain of many can easily spoil batches of product in huge quantities. everyone wants to hit the "jackpot" and the lengths that people would go to attain that is not that far off. Gambling and greed go hand in hand, and i guarantee you half of these "for the hobby" people would be happy to gain at other peoples loss. Theres nothing foreign or out of the ordinary about this concept at all!
Ok, let me see a website that sells these. How reliable can these "old" machines be if they are sitting in a warehouse for years? If you happen to buy one of these scanners and it breaks down, would you be willing to buy replacement parts for it? Are you tech savy enough to repair it yourself? Or will you spend more money for a tech to fix it for you?
@@michaelgreene582 why are you asking nonsensical questions that is illogical to the topic at hand. Can you fix a rotary shaft in your car axel? Can you fix foundation in your house? Are YOU a aeronautical expert? I do not have to have to be a radiologist or doctor to have an opinion on the field. This is one of the most well known fallacy arguments, that if you dont do it, you cant talk about it. And I dont know why you are asking for a website, while you can easily find and search this, its called the internet. If there is a market for anything, there will be people willing to learn and invest in it. I WORKED for an auction house, we get industrial, restaurant, and medical machines all the time from closed businesses/organizations. If it is worthwhile for a 5000$ card hit (which is ridiculous for a card anyways but very common) people will risk assess and measure costs of a ct (whether it be purchase, lease, offering services, or repair) appropriately, was well as learning amateur radiology. the card industry is 10+ billion a year, so the notion that no one will take advantage of the market is very naive.
Not too hard to figure out. Just trying to make a point. You seem to be confident that this equipment is so available. I dont see why breakers would go through the hassle of spending money on old scanning equipment to make this happen. Seems risky. Pretty logical questions actually.
It’s called obsolescence. It happens with old machines all the time actually. You can’t get replacement parts. Im a systems engineer and I have seen this occur numerous times. It’s actually a huge issue if you don’t buy the anticipated amount of required spares which no one on the secondary market is doing.
Just boycott all Breakers. They go out of business and manufacturers/distributors are forced to lower prices to sell product to individual consumers. With lower ROI, Flippers will no longer be incentived to flip product on the secondary market. Consumers are then buying product directly from reliable (presumably) sources, which makes the entire CT issue moot.
I don't agree with boycotting all breakers. Many, in fact I would say most breakers are honest people who love what they do. The big problem is that the ones who MIGHT (probably ARE?) doing something unethical are precisely the ones most people would choose to buy into breaks with. Why? Because they're getting all the biggest hits. This CT scanning issue is a massive problem. Massive.
@@t-pott4504 I just don't understand breaking in general. If you enjoy opening new product, why outsource that enjoyment. I know it's basically a gambling operation and that might be the rush people are getting, but you can gamble while opening yourself. Its just crazy to me.
One of the best (most open, transparent, & unfiltered) COTT episode you guys have done. 👏 I’m with T-Pot on the long tail effect needing to be considered more.
Its great seeing all the comments agreeing with T pot and I am one! lol I'm always trying to wait a month or 2 after releases for prices to come down because they're so high already and now there is just one more thing to worry about that may be going on behind the scenes. We are already getting trainrolled on boxes spending hundreds to get $5 in cards and now the percentage of getting railroaded by these boxes is even higher with someone potentially sending every dud onto the shelf
larger breakers like backyard breaks 100% has a ct scanner already or on the way. Then they can just have a 3rd party buy the team with the big hit in a break. then they get the card they scanned and the "look what we pulled for a customer" hype.
Both are correct. Its not a problem for most people, especially since most collectors dont break and cant afford the boxes in question. But tpott is 100% right that whereever money exists, so do to slimey and devious people
Geoff is so off based with this. He’s discounting this and to no end. I’m a normal collector and have 2009 topps sterling boxes. I am concerned. Stop discounting this. Great work T Pot
This is fantastic. The fact that Jeff allows teapot who is his employee. (I believe) to feel comfortable completely disagreeing with him and respects him enough to give him as much time as Jeff got to make his point is what makes this channel so easy to follow. Great work, very entertaining to very thorough points of view forward. Love the way Jeff interacts with kids in the hobby and also shows he can be firm with adults as well.
Great discussion on the CT scanning. T-Pott continues to make great points. But Geoff brings up a lot of points that I hadn't considered before. However, even if Geoff is right, perception is more important than reality. If collectors/investors think this is a big problem, even if in reality it isn't that big of a deal, it could have a big, negative impact on the hobby, particularly the buying and selling of wax. Also, it seems like there's a new scam or bad news coming out every week. If this keeps happening, some collectors/investors, if not many, will reach a breaking point and leave this hobby. I also really appreciate that Geoff, who runs this whole thing, allows strong opinions that are different than his and that he keeps his cool and even stays good natured about an emotionally-charged topic.
I'm a positive person by nature, and I ALWAYS give the benefit of the doubt and believe in innocent until proven guilty. But I'm also a realist. And I also know statistical impossibilities when I see them. I know where Geoff is coming from when he says this doesn't impact the majority of NEW wax...he's not wrong about that. But the impact of this on OLD wax cannot be understated. It's dead. Holding sealed wax as a long term investment is dead. I can't imagine a single reason why anyone would buy any sealed wax product valued at $2k or more that is more than 4 years old. It's all over.
@@t-pott4504I know you are right. It’s a darn shame. I loved collecting boxes and putting them on my shelf and in my closet. I have to wonder if they have already been scanned some of them at least. When I go to sell who would believe me that they weren’t already scanned.
@@t-pott4504 keep it up.. I love most of your content and you are the reason why I watch this pod and spit balling (even though I don't get into baseball) do you have other videos you do
T-Pot is a realist. Kudos. Geoff apparently hasn’t watched Breaking Bad or any of the myriad stories, many of which are non-fiction, of what people will do for a quick buck. It only takes one or two breakers. And the potential whistleblowers may not be out there because the company owners and officers with the purchasing power and scanning access may be a tight enough inner circle that no one is there to blow the whistle yet. Or maybe, like T-Pot said, potential whistleblowers are being threatened. Welcome to the real world. RIP long-term wax holders.
I saw a video of Trout opening a box of 2009 bowman draft chrome with his son. Great video but....first pack 3rd card in he pulled his own auto. He looked genuinely excited but it made me think, whoever he got that box from knew his card was in there. What are the chances that happens.
100% agree with T-pott. Like Geoff said himself its hard to find the big hits in boxes, but when you have 5 breakers taking 200 to 300 of the SP cards out of circulation it makes it even harder. It just went from hitting a 4 number lotto ticket to now hitting a 8 number lotto ticket.
I appreciate the respectful and open debate here. Truly got the sense this was all genuine between Geoff and T-Pot; not staged and pre-planned for the points made between both. They can respectfully agree to disagree and move on.
This was 100% real. We don't force drama or take sides intentionally or by coin flip. Just honest, raw, and completely unfiltered debate. I'm glad to have the chance to share my opinion.
It will affect everyone, no only the high boxes. All you need is a distributer who gets lots of boxes for shipping those to the breakers and shops - if he has a CT scanner and a person (or in the future some kind of A.I.) to detect the big hits, the whole process wont even hold up his normal process chain. Its so easy if you have enough money for a high end CT scanner - just think of the CT scanners at the airport and the quality these scanners have...
I agree with Geoff you made some really good points good job Geoff!!! T pot you also made some great points about buying older boxes!!! Im glad to see you on both platforms T pooter and Im glad Geoff allows you to speak your mind on both platforms. You have a great Boss in Geoff you may not always agree on everything but at the end of the day you are family. Its fresh and great knowledge you both bring and make a great team!! Geoff and T pooter forever!!!
People have always tried to cheat. The hobby always found ways to fix those. Metallic foil and/or plastic composite wrapping can easily make the boxes impervious to CT scanning.
That is only a band-aid fix for a greater problem., all the wax that currently exists. Anything you invested in, is now questionable or possibly unsellable in the future.
I agree 1000% with t pot and I’m glad it wasn’t pussyfooted around. I know what Jeff is saying about the families and Topps chrome but we’re talking how breaks are the biggest thing going for the hobby right now. T pot is correct
This guy is full of it. I’m a breaker who hasn’t hit a downtown in over 200 boxes. That’s retail. I ordered from Walmart and brick and mortar Walmarts. At first we hit downtowns regurally for a long time. Then we couldn’t hit them anymore. I know they’re scanned. Also. Bots make it impossible to get select and optic football even when I know they’re going on sale. Don’t believe his trash. The hobby is DEAD. Want to bring it back. Have the companies making the boxes use something other than scannable cardboard to hold the packs, and do away with allowing bots to eat up all the boxes so people don’t have to pay the premium 2ndary market price. Until then forget it.
I really hope CT scans kill wax. The mystique that T-Pott refers to is long gone, the hobby is inaccessible already for most people. It's become a horrendous experience for the average consumer. Let singles rule. That being said, Geoff is right, most people won't be affected by this. What it might do is kill the value of those high value packs that most of us didn't have access to before, and actually, is that so bad?
It might not gain traction as a business model but the technology is out there and once you acquire it, it doesn’t cost $75 a pack to use, then it becomes about owning the equipment and doing as much as possible,imo. The companies can then pick the good product and off the junk to unsuspecting hobbyists.
Geoff- I respect the hell out of your opinions- but you are clearly just saying this as a knee jerk reaction to protect your breaking business. I'm not mad at it....but Tpott is 100% on point here. It massively affects the value of sealed wax, and breakers of any large size would be FOOLS not to scan boxes of high end product and feed it to their whales- even at a huge mark up. That is happening- it has to be. $80,000 for a CT Scanner is NOTHING compared to what these large breakers are selling in product- it's a common sense investment and I'm sad that I don't have the capital to take advantage. I'm tempted to create a company that just buys sealed wax, scans it, and then resells the duds and grades the grails. I could probably get backing on that business idea.
I was watching a video of a buyer's POV at a London card show. In that card show, there was a vendor who was trying to sell a CT-scanned evolving sky pack for 2 thousand pounds($2575.75 US). I hope no one ever buys it.
Man hats off to my guy T-Pot for telling his conviction I get what Geoff is saying that it’s kinda bogey man right now but going forward it’s very much a problem for wax value and for breaks it just sows distrust in the industry and that’s not good for anyone. Geoff is too trusting in a hobby full of gamblers
Did Geoff get a call from Rubin telling him to stop putting out FUD about the whole CT scanner situation? He was just saying how bad it was just a few days ago. 🤔
Agree 100% with the percentage of people going to go after high end boxes that are at risk are a very little percentage. However the over-arching issue is TRUST. Consumers at any freaking level need to be able to TRUST the hobby. And if there's any fathomable reason to have doubt, on hits.. with how hard it is to get hits as it is now. People will no longer risk -- THE CHASE -- that's what it's all about.
Am I crazy or couldn''t panini and topps just change the outside plastic wrapper for each hobby box? Rather than plastic use tin foil or line the wrapper with metallic strings. This would stop the ability to scan the box without taking off that wrapper. Which would be no different than buying an unsealed hobby box. Someone may buy it but at 10% of its true value.
That wouldn’t stop the ability to scan. It’s not like a microwave. Many packs are already foil. What they need to do is use a radiosensitive film like Gafchromic to change color when exposed to radiation above a certain level. On every box and every pack. And BBCE needs to start wrapping their certified boxes in it. PSA needs to put it on their slabs when grading packs.
Until next weeks video where he’ll jump on the T Pott bandwagon and change his stance completely like he’s always done. Like when the market took the post Covid nosedive and Geoff claimed he was just a collector, now cards are back up and he’s back to being an investor.
It’s not the end of the hobby,but this issue has THEORETICALLY,almost killed the hobby. Considering the effects this issue brings to the table,this has kind of destroyed a huge piece of the hobby. And unfortunately,the damage is irreversible. Just the simple threat of certain items being scanned,is enough…
Two points can be somewhat true at the same time. It might be true that many products - due to cost - wouldn’t be scanned. The lower cost stuff. However, some of those same products may prove to be scannable in the future, as T-Pot indicated. This doesn’t even address the larger breaking companies (or any other that handle a lot of product) that may purchase their own CT scan machine, thus bringing down the average cost to scan. But the damage in this whole thing is this: it goes to the honesty, integrity, and overall trustability factor in the industry. It violates EVERYTHING a true hobbyist wants from the industry. The solution is not to sweep it under the rug, rather, its to prosecute them to the full extent and make them unwelcome in the hobby.
I don't agree with Geoff when he said that 99% of buyers aren't affect because breaking has exploded! The average joe can now buy into a expensive boxes thru the break without paying the entire cost. Also, doesn't Cards HQ have 6 Breaker Pavilion rooms? Family friendly shop that offers gambling. Breaking is not the only thing affected, but investing in sealed wax will absolutely take a hit. I think most people who have ripped wax at any point understand that it's mostly a losing proposition, but keeping it sealed with the unknown will retain if not increase the value. Lastly, CT scanning, like any technology, will get cheaper and more powerful. There is more technology in your new iPhone then what was used in the space shuttle to fly to the moon. Cheating of any kind needs to be addressed and stopped or mitigated immediately and I do believe Topps will address this. Everyone has their own opinions, but I'm on team T-Pott with his backed by facts, statistical and legal.
Geoff, we understand you're a card shop owner that runs a big breaker operation -- you don't want people to break away from the hobby. You've got a great shop (been there twice), but you're wrong on this one. Teapot came prepared with facts. I thought for sure this was a planned, "we need to convince people it's not a big deal." Appreciate your content either way.
T Pott 100% spot on, Geoff is either oblivious or is purposely trying to sugarcoat it because it will effect his bottom dollar. T pott is a man of true character
Couldn’t agree more with you. Geoff is friends with a lot of executives for these companies (suppliers and buyers) and has to keep that relationship going. T Pot is only scratching the surface. Breakers who consistently pull rare 1/1’s are getting help beyond just CT scanning.
I’m proud of T Pot for speaking truth. I completely agree with him.
It's not something I relish getting worked up about or being right about, but I do believe it's a huge problem. It sickens me.
@@t-pott4504I completely agree with you. Genuinely. It’s not easy to share your honest feelings in that setting. To me, it shows a lot about your character, that you were willing to say what you did, in that situation. Good stuff.
I like Geoff a lot. I think he is a great guy and has done a lot for “the hobby” but as a man with millions invested in various card related investments (plus a ton of expensive sealed wax) he has too much to lose in all this to give an impartial opinion.
@@MidLifeCardsMaybe Geoff’s not paying well these days 😂
same- I respect Geoff's opinions a LOT- he's clearly sharp. But I can't help thinking his take on this is purely to protect to his breaking business. I agree wholeheartedly with Tpot
Geoff, T-Pott is your biggest asset for SCI and I hope you never lose sight of that.
T pott lives in reality. I think he's a lot more reflective of the hobby as a whole.
Geoff only suggests that you'd have to send your cards to a company for scanning..if your a huge breaker, you'd OWN one...used ct scanners are about $1500....
@@jakefarmer3122 Unfortunately the good guys like T-Pott are not part of the good ole boys network. And those are the guys that control the industry. And Geoff is more or less a pawn like the rest of us. He's not in with the grubby distributors breakers and graders.
At least we know Geoff won't use a CT scanner as long as T-pott works there. He's got whistleblower written all over him 😂
Tpott seems like he’s one of those dudes that literally won’t lie about anything. Like he’d turn his own mother in if he had to. 😂
This comment was hilarious, yes I think TPot is one of the good guys.
It's greed Jeff.
I've met T-pot and he really is a high character person, and stays true to his word
Bang on T Pot!! Thank-you!!
I'm 100% with Teapot. This murders the value of sealed wax prices long term
Public: "Congress should not be trading millions of dollars in stock on insider tips"
Geoff: "Well you all aren't trading millions in stock because you don't have it. Don't worry about it"
The point is NO ONE should have an advantage at all. Stop being elitist.
@zachsabbath1 Hope it's sooner than later.
Putting people's statements in literal FAKE QUOTES is wild. 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
This comment should be pinned to this video. 100% on point.
@zachsabbath1 I’d actually like that. Besides the obvious reasons of getting rid of some of the scams and shady business. Coming from someone that rips a ton of wax, having regulations in place will also thin out the breaking community making the boxes cheaper bc the demand will be less.
Geoff has to say these things because he has so much invested in selling wax. He has to say that everyone should keep buying wax and that this conspiracy won’t hurt values because he has money on the line. There’s no way to know what he really thinks, he is a snake oil salesman, you can’t trust a word out of his mouth.
T Pot is 100% correct. Additionally, CT tech has been around for decades and old machines are not hard to find. The only safe wax now is direct from mfg. All old (valuable) wax is now suspect unless the provenance is impeccable, which is really impossible. For example, 2023/24 Panini Prizm Basketball Hobby 12 Box Case sells for $18K, plenty of financial incentive to scan it, then figure the economics of how to max your value on the case. This is an easy exploit that I imagine is already being exploited.
It's a huge risk for old boxes. Huge risk!
Old Boxes should always stay SEALED, Newer Boxes should be Opened. Exactly Pal.... Also there are many overhyped Items out there, overpriced as F.... many Fraudsters out there Claiming "This is theee & this is that only One Bla bla bla" folks forget that they just want to sell you shxx which actually is not that Valueable
@@alltimeklazzikz u scan still scan a sealed box
@@Tradingcardking so what ?? I wasnt talking about a CT Scan dude🤣 read again above...lmfao
Sorry, T-Pot is completely correct. Geoff, you’re off on this one.
Doug just sitting their smiling and nodding as T-Pot demolishes Geoff is so freakin' good.
Wow T-Pott .. I’m very impressed. Your judge Judy analogy was awesome. You sure you don’t have a calling in law? Lol. I agreed with Geoff for the most part, but man T-Pott made me realize this is a bigger deal than I thought. Great civil discussion gentleman.
I wish it weren't a big deal, but I really believe it is. It shakes the fabric of the Hobby, which is sealed product.
@@t-pott4504You are correct. Imagine how many people leveraged up to purchase sealed products just to hold it with the expectation that it would continue to increase in price over time. Now they just saw a lot of that paper wealth evaporated and we'll have to wait to see how comps come in as a new market price is established over time. It's like the housing crisis in 2008. People thought their houses were a sound investment until the subprime crisis exploded property value. Except in this instance, the value of the boxes are inherently permanently impaired; similar to a home going underwater because of global warming. And as the prices of these boxes decrease in values, the hits from these boxes will decrease in price too. Both because the supply of hits will increase as people open the good boxes and because the cost to break the boxes will fall. And as the box prices fall the reference prices for the hits will decrease too. Any smart investor should be selling their key items, or their whole collection, at whatever good price they can now before the market finds a new floor. Because that floor could be 50% or more below where it is now. Tpott you have my respect. Before I thought you were a little too conservative with your takes. But I realize now you are very honest but just focus on the data. And when this CT scanner information came out you have been speaking more proactively about what you saw before and how this new information relates to the numbers you analyzed. Keep up the good work.
There is a very painful tension for an entrepreneur who owns a new big box card store as well as a media operation with a core mission of recording and projecting hobby trends. I think it shows great integrity that T-Pott repeated his core argument about the future of wax, and I’m really glad Geoff confronted it on camera. This was a super difficult but necessary discussion.
“We wish Tpott the best in his future endeavours.” 😂
I agree - That does deserve a kudos!
Agree with T-Pott 100%. It wouldn't surprise me to discover a distributor and/or breaker were involved in scanning boxes and selling specific spots to friends/family. It would be very easy to hide this kind of activity and with millions at stake it would be very enticing
Wake up Geoff. I'm a breaker with a scanner. I scan and know all the cards. I sell the hits to my associates. Everyone still sees the hits, I get the PR and the CARD. DUH
T POT WAS ON FIRE on this debate. He covered all points so well. It was not even a debate lol. T pot is goat 🐐
🤝
you automatically lose an argument when you try to base it on "ethics and morals" of breakers and the rich people of the hobby.
My girlfriend who knows relatively nothing about the card collecting hobby heard what I heard at 12:25 and we both let out the loudest laugh ever.
My guy, this hobby is FILLED with shysters and con men. To think otherwise is foolish.
If breakers see a logo man they will absolutely keep it, who are you kidding?
I completely agree with this. Maybe let 1 or 2 get through, but if they scanned all those hits beforehand, they wouldn't have opened them all for breaks. (Backyard)
Or make sure their buddies in the breaks get the big hits
@@cardguy20 they’ll open the boxes containing the big hits to get the views and popularity but they’ll be sure there friends or family are the ones who bought the spot in the break so they can funnel the card back to them or sell it for the money
or sell it to a whale for the cost of the box, the ct scan fee, plus 50% of it's estimated value
Thank you T POT for having common sense. Put Geoff in his place. Either he is trying to save his ass because he obviously is in the card business or he is willfully being ignorant.
Cmon Geoff. How isn’t CT scanning boxes a big deal. You of all ppl should feel like it’s a big deal especially with The amount of high end wax you have. But at same time it makes perfect sense on why your downplaying this bc of the amount of high end wax you have.
T-Pott needs a raise. At least we know someone there has integrity. Geoff is wrong here. Hobby is in trouble if this isn’t addressed on a grand scale
WRONG! WRONG! and WRONG!!! Breakers could tell their friends to buy a team in the break knowing where the Hit would be and then it would look like they are hitting big for a random person when in reality they double dip by having the Hit and selling the hit! How is Geoff this naive?
Jabs Family used to (and probably still does this) For years he had a person named Linda that would get all of the top spots and just so happened to always come away with the big auto hits. It could be a case of Archives Signature edition. Everyone else gets $5 autos yet here was Linda getting Trout and Griffey autos.
Right, just like ebay. Have your friends help you bid to keep the price up.
Completely agree with T-Pot. I no longer want to buy any sealed wax from a card shop, eBay seller, or card show. I will only buy hobby direct from Topps, Panini, Upper Deck.
Until people that work at the warehouses figure out a way to scan boxes without others knowing
I used to do that to save the wax but now I probably won’t be buying wax ever. Just singles for me
Backyard breaks is sweating a little more today
I don’t think they’re scared of 🫖
No they aren't because we've got apologists saying things like "if you're a breaking company you WANT to let your customers know you have all the big hits!" First of all, breakers have ruined the hobby. Demand is artificially inflated because these grifters are buying it all up. Second, now we're saying we want distributors possibly scanning boxes and shipping to only favored breakers. Such a horrible take from Geoff in this video.
Backyard Breaks will be scared when this bubbles up to the DOJ. There is too much money at risk here for important people. Rubin probably underestimates the impact now, but the numbers won't lie in a couple of years if they don't figure out a solution.
Thats the name I was trying to remebr they hit a logomman then a week later a triple logoman If I remember they for sure Been scanning someone said the odds were rarer then powerball
they literally have a large banner that says “we have loaded boxes!” i don’t think they care.
CT machines use X-rays. A simple solution moving forward would be to include an inexpensive X-ray sticker on the box and under the seal that shows exposure to CT scanning. That’s the only sealed box of significant value I would purchase.
I’m a CPA, and I’ve got to agree with T-Pot..when I first started my career statistics were used quite a bit to assess risk. I can tell you, I’ve seen things in this hobby that raise every red flag I have. No way no how are some of the “unbelievable” hits I have seen in these breaks legitimately random.
Nice? Probable. Twice? Highly unlikely. Repeatedly against all odds? Nope.
🧠🧠
especially when they call out the card they pull before even opening the box/pack. Essentially it is a slap in the face to everyone in the hobby. Like, no one knows you scan cards and got away with it for some time, now you call out the card. That it is in that box, pack 4, and as you're flipping through the cards you're like here it comes.... gold select /10 Ganna's. Only other explanations, mutants or fortune tellers are real and they can see the future.
Wonder what this guy said about the guy who had back to back hole in ones a few months ago
Its funny because this guy is 100% the type to use this tech to rip people off without batting an eye
I'm with the ginger on this one. Geoff severely underestimates the greed of man.
facts
The ranga has a point
Ginger power!
I've seen the greed of man in the hobby for a long time. It shouldn't be underestimated. And I would look to China to see what's happening there because CT scanners are cheap to get there.
It's all about the vibes!
Ty COOKED here.
Im a doctor. I have a CT scanner at my office. I scanned a few hobby boxes that I've been holding and I can also confirm that you can see foiling, embossing, sticker autos, and patches. This is a huge problem as it can be done for cheaper than $75 per pack. My guess is that it can be done for $5-$10 per pack eventually.
I don’t hold wax anymore. I've open all my hobby boxes with some nice hits I might add...😂
I'm going to medical school so I can be a group breaker one day
@@KK-pm7udthis comment! 🤣
I Live in new zealand.
For 100nzd ($50usd) my local vet will scan an entire case.
In nz we have no retail cards shops but we can buy online. I have bought 3 x cases of a product from an online retailer here and have never pulled a case hit.. Ive purchased a box of flawless 2 boxes of optic and other high end wax and hit nothing.
Tla product is worse. Ive purchased 19 boxes and never had anything other than a box hit.
Geoff you maybe right that this isnt a problem in the states where the cost is prohibitive but here in australasia - its a big problem.
I will no longer buy wax and the retailers i sell product too have advised customers have started asking if the boxes have been scanned and no longer wish to buy packs.
Breakers are bad for the hobby and very very bad for wholesalers and now secondary retailers
Scanning is probably cheap in China too
Way to put Geoff in his place TPot! He definitely was wrong and glad you said what you said. Little does he know, you saved him from getting Blasted in the comments. What Geoff isn’t realizing is yeah 99% won’t do this but 10-15% of the boxes on resale market will get scanned and that alone is gonna keep 20-25% that woulda bought a box not to buy a box. Hence boxes losing value because of that 10-15% of those that will have the ability to scan them
10-15% is a very conservative estimate. Over time I would expect the box prices to fall 50% from their peak pricing.
Spitballin Cards with T Pott is better than when he's on Cards on the Table. He's a lot more honest and can talk more freely.
I think he spoke pretty freely in this episode! 😂
T Pott probably going to get future endeavoured if he keeps trashing his “boss” on that channel. He was over there whining how his “boss” and Doug were laughing at him for peddling conspiracies.
He said just about everything he said in that other pod and then some dude.
I thought I was honest here too! I get to speak freely.
Tpott cookin 🔥
I agree with T-pott 100%
I like Geoff but of course he wants to make everyone believe it’s no big deal. He is making a killing on cards and the last thing he wants is the giant money guys packing it up.
Geoff I hope you read this. You are currently right. However, technology only gets better, smaller, and more affordable over time. Examples are cars, planes, phones, you name it. You can get older CT scanner models now. 5-10 years from now everyone will have access to this technology if there is money to be made, and there is. What you are overlooking is the future state of wax not the current state. Like T-Pott said, "The longer it goes on, the more problematic it becomes". Translated: This is going to spread to the rest of the 99%.
I wouldn't be surprised if someone figures out a way to scan boxes with your phone in the future. Are you telling me that none of your SUPERHERO INTEGRITY SELLERS/BREAKERS wouldn't scan their inventory, with a potential 5-6-7 figure card in their product, open the ones with the valuable/desired hits and sell the rest with easy access to the technology?
This is going to flush wax down the drain. No one else will want to waste their time or money. You might end up using most of your wax collection for toilet paper in the future.
You're only saying that "it's no big deal" because you have all your $$ tied up in sports cards!!! If people stop buying wax or the hobby suffers in any way because of this YOU SUFFER FINANCIALLY !!! Let's be real, you're financially bound to downplay this problem !!! You're not looking out for anyone's interest but your own !!!
I just want to say thank you for having an actual conversation about this even if you all disagree on it! Its very refreshing to hear and know you all still respect each other in the end! Great show! TPot you won me over with this episode buddy!
🤝
Geoff when he saw the CT story…Helloooooo CT scanners!!!
😂😂😂❤
When it comes to CT scanners... I'M BUYING.
😄
he would honestly be stupid NOT to buy one and then go on the grail wax hunts. Anyone with money should be doing that. You have millions in high end missing cards in sealed wax- and a CT scanner starts at 80k.....
If you’re a poker player who knows the name Mike Postle, you know that statistical evidence of this nature is not so easy to get through the court system
There is an EASY way for breakers to get away with it by not involving any employees/non owners! All they have to do is set up the CT scanner in another location, get delivery at that other location, scan it there, then transport the cases to the the breaking studio location after. Then only the CT scan operator and the owner know about it. The CT scan operator is getting paid very well and has plausible deniability because scan boxes is legal and they won’t know the intentions of the owner. So now only the owner really know what is going on.
The main problem is that unopened is now like buying a car. Once you get it, the price will more than likely plummet, because there's no longer a traceable provenance if you want to sell.
CT scanning most likely will never have an impact on me directly. But the perception is that the big guys are able to cheat and pull one over on the little guys like me. It just leaves a bad taste in your mouth
Well said
Agree with T Pot here. Geoff’s best interest to defend an industry that he’s majorly invested in, it’s his livelihood….but we all know half the industry is weasel grown men that would push a kid at Target to flip for a buck. Now it’s hard to trust any sealed product. And even if I’m truthful about selling sealed, the consumer buying it from me has doubt. Even if 99% of boxes are unscanned. The doubt is there. The technology is there.
WRONG! Really bad foresight and logic Geoff! 1st the cost will come down on CT scanning to the point it will be $1 a pack to scan. 2nd breakers can have a local person scan their boxes the same day! Also there are now MOBILE CT scanners that are meant for bedside brain scans in a hospital if a patient should not be moved. Those scanners are cheaper than the massive ones. So breakers can have it done in their offices the same day. And if that is case then they can pay a one time fee, let’s say $3k and have all of their cases and boxes scanned. Just pulling one massive card makes up for that cost!
T pott is a real one. Very honest and smart guy. I respect him big time . Kept it 💯 If it affects 10% then that is to much. Unbelievable Mr Wilson.
🤝
you can EASILY find CT scanners... I am talking VERY easy... old medical grade equipment sits for years in warehouses and public auctions (not meeting min bids).
You have to realize it will get MASSIVELY easier as well. Once people try to experiment with this, amateur programmers can code CT programs/plugins to better suit workflow for scanning boxes and packs 100x faster (seeking specific frames of references using AI to recognize patterns on cards very quickly).
Geoff is also vastly underestimating the hands that product will go through. Not only his business but by logistics, distributors, secondhand (as a lot of product is scalped), multiple other parties and all in between. If CT processes becomes 100x faster and 100x more accessible, a reroute, a quick scan, and one bad party in the chain of many can easily spoil batches of product in huge quantities. everyone wants to hit the "jackpot" and the lengths that people would go to attain that is not that far off. Gambling and greed go hand in hand, and i guarantee you half of these "for the hobby" people would be happy to gain at other peoples loss. Theres nothing foreign or out of the ordinary about this concept at all!
Ok, let me see a website that sells these. How reliable can these "old" machines be if they are sitting in a warehouse for years? If you happen to buy one of these scanners and it breaks down, would you be willing to buy replacement parts for it? Are you tech savy enough to repair it yourself? Or will you spend more money for a tech to fix it for you?
@@michaelgreene582 why are you asking nonsensical questions that is illogical to the topic at hand. Can you fix a rotary shaft in your car axel? Can you fix foundation in your house? Are YOU a aeronautical expert? I do not have to have to be a radiologist or doctor to have an opinion on the field. This is one of the most well known fallacy arguments, that if you dont do it, you cant talk about it. And I dont know why you are asking for a website, while you can easily find and search this, its called the internet. If there is a market for anything, there will be people willing to learn and invest in it. I WORKED for an auction house, we get industrial, restaurant, and medical machines all the time from closed businesses/organizations. If it is worthwhile for a 5000$ card hit (which is ridiculous for a card anyways but very common) people will risk assess and measure costs of a ct (whether it be purchase, lease, offering services, or repair) appropriately, was well as learning amateur radiology. the card industry is 10+ billion a year, so the notion that no one will take advantage of the market is very naive.
Not too hard to figure out. Just trying to make a point. You seem to be confident that this equipment is so available. I dont see why breakers would go through the hassle of spending money on old scanning equipment to make this happen. Seems risky. Pretty logical questions actually.
It’s called obsolescence. It happens with old machines all the time actually. You can’t get replacement parts. Im a systems engineer and I have seen this occur numerous times. It’s actually a huge issue if you don’t buy the anticipated amount of required spares which no one on the secondary market is doing.
Atleast someone uses brains 😂😂😂.
Just boycott all Breakers. They go out of business and manufacturers/distributors are forced to lower prices to sell product to individual consumers. With lower ROI, Flippers will no longer be incentived to flip product on the secondary market. Consumers are then buying product directly from reliable (presumably) sources, which makes the entire CT issue moot.
I don't agree with boycotting all breakers. Many, in fact I would say most breakers are honest people who love what they do. The big problem is that the ones who MIGHT (probably ARE?) doing something unethical are precisely the ones most people would choose to buy into breaks with. Why? Because they're getting all the biggest hits. This CT scanning issue is a massive problem. Massive.
@@t-pott4504 this is why I break high end hockey cases only out of canada only with the same breaker always!!!
@@t-pott4504 I just don't understand breaking in general. If you enjoy opening new product, why outsource that enjoyment. I know it's basically a gambling operation and that might be the rush people are getting, but you can gamble while opening yourself. Its just crazy to me.
after watching this video, it is clear Geoff has fallen for a scam before.
Anyone saying the hobby isn’t cooked is personally emotionally invested in vintage boxes 😂
T-Pot you are on point. Thanks!!
One of the best (most open, transparent, & unfiltered) COTT episode you guys have done. 👏 I’m with T-Pot on the long tail effect needing to be considered more.
T-Pot I want your autograph! You rock!!!!
Thank you T Pot. Jeff l, even if if it doesn't it affect affect 99 percent it still affects 1 percent and that affects the hobby.
Its great seeing all the comments agreeing with T pot and I am one! lol I'm always trying to wait a month or 2 after releases for prices to come down because they're so high already and now there is just one more thing to worry about that may be going on behind the scenes. We are already getting trainrolled on boxes spending hundreds to get $5 in cards and now the percentage of getting railroaded by these boxes is even higher with someone potentially sending every dud onto the shelf
larger breakers like backyard breaks 100% has a ct scanner already or on the way. Then they can just have a 3rd party buy the team with the big hit in a break. then they get the card they scanned and the "look what we pulled for a customer" hype.
allegedly
Both are correct. Its not a problem for most people, especially since most collectors dont break and cant afford the boxes in question. But tpott is 100% right that whereever money exists, so do to slimey and devious people
1 person doing this affects 100% of the people in the hobby. Don’t have such a narrow view
Geoff is so off based with this. He’s discounting this and to no end. I’m a normal collector and have 2009 topps sterling boxes. I am concerned. Stop discounting this. Great work T Pot
This is fantastic. The fact that Jeff allows teapot who is his employee. (I believe) to feel comfortable completely disagreeing with him and respects him enough to give him as much time as Jeff got to make his point is what makes this channel so easy to follow. Great work, very entertaining to very thorough points of view forward. Love the way Jeff interacts with kids in the hobby and also shows he can be firm with adults as well.
Great discussion on the CT scanning. T-Pott continues to make great points. But Geoff brings up a lot of points that I hadn't considered before. However, even if Geoff is right, perception is more important than reality. If collectors/investors think this is a big problem, even if in reality it isn't that big of a deal, it could have a big, negative impact on the hobby, particularly the buying and selling of wax. Also, it seems like there's a new scam or bad news coming out every week. If this keeps happening, some collectors/investors, if not many, will reach a breaking point and leave this hobby.
I also really appreciate that Geoff, who runs this whole thing, allows strong opinions that are different than his and that he keeps his cool and even stays good natured about an emotionally-charged topic.
I have no idea why anyone would want to break with anyone that has anything over a few weeks old. This i assume would kill places like vintage breaks.
Geoff using “hobby positivity” and “the breakers are good people” to discount the incentive to scan is ridiculous. What a schill.
So proud of T Pott standing his ground with the truth and not letting Geoff just try to protect his meal ticket with zero integrity
T pott you are a very smart guy... It must be frustrating trying to get through the unlimited positivity of Geoff
I'm a positive person by nature, and I ALWAYS give the benefit of the doubt and believe in innocent until proven guilty. But I'm also a realist. And I also know statistical impossibilities when I see them. I know where Geoff is coming from when he says this doesn't impact the majority of NEW wax...he's not wrong about that. But the impact of this on OLD wax cannot be understated. It's dead. Holding sealed wax as a long term investment is dead. I can't imagine a single reason why anyone would buy any sealed wax product valued at $2k or more that is more than 4 years old. It's all over.
@@t-pott4504I know you are right. It’s a darn shame. I loved collecting boxes and putting them on my shelf and in my closet. I have to wonder if they have already been scanned some of them at least. When I go to sell who would believe me that they weren’t already scanned.
@@t-pott4504 keep it up.. I love most of your content and you are the reason why I watch this pod and spit balling (even though I don't get into baseball) do you have other videos you do
Any edge like using a CT scanner is cheating Geoff...come on dude. Us little people aren't like you and don't have money to burn.
I never said it wasn’t cheating. Of course it is. It shouldn’t happen. But I just said it’s not the end of the hobby and not affecting most products.
@@SportsCardInvestor This is just the beginning. Watch. More and more scandals will start coming out on old tricks.
@@SportsCardInvestorI’d be more worried about your sons shitty attitude mate grow a spin an discipline him
I dont think it messes around with it prices, if anything the price just won't raise
@@grim7747 Agreed. It's just the beginning.
T-Pot is a realist. Kudos. Geoff apparently hasn’t watched Breaking Bad or any of the myriad stories, many of which are non-fiction, of what people will do for a quick buck. It only takes one or two breakers. And the potential whistleblowers may not be out there because the company owners and officers with the purchasing power and scanning access may be a tight enough inner circle that no one is there to blow the whistle yet. Or maybe, like T-Pot said, potential whistleblowers are being threatened.
Welcome to the real world. RIP long-term wax holders.
It was the previous video about the scanning where Geoff couldn’t calm down. Quite ironic.
I'm on team T Pot. The tech will only become more accessible and more effective.
I saw a video of Trout opening a box of 2009 bowman draft chrome with his son. Great video but....first pack 3rd card in he pulled his own auto. He looked genuinely excited but it made me think, whoever he got that box from knew his card was in there. What are the chances that happens.
Not good for sealed wax. Buying singles is and has been the way to go
100% agree with T-pott. Like Geoff said himself its hard to find the big hits in boxes, but when you have 5 breakers taking 200 to 300 of the SP cards out of circulation it makes it even harder. It just went from hitting a 4 number lotto ticket to now hitting a 8 number lotto ticket.
Have to agree with T Pott here. Great discussion!
I appreciate the respectful and open debate here. Truly got the sense this was all genuine between Geoff and T-Pot; not staged and pre-planned for the points made between both. They can respectfully agree to disagree and move on.
This was 100% real. We don't force drama or take sides intentionally or by coin flip. Just honest, raw, and completely unfiltered debate. I'm glad to have the chance to share my opinion.
It will affect everyone, no only the high boxes. All you need is a distributer who gets lots of boxes for shipping those to the breakers and shops - if he has a CT scanner and a person (or in the future some kind of A.I.) to detect the big hits, the whole process wont even hold up his normal process chain. Its so easy if you have enough money for a high end CT scanner - just think of the CT scanners at the airport and the quality these scanners have...
awesome to see you guys have a difference of opinion and debate like men. this was like a sports cards version of undisputed.
I agree with Geoff you made some really good points good job Geoff!!! T pot you also made some great points about buying older boxes!!!
Im glad to see you on both platforms T pooter and Im glad Geoff allows you to speak your mind on both platforms. You have a great Boss in Geoff you may not always agree on everything but at the end of the day you are family. Its fresh and great knowledge you both bring and make a great team!! Geoff and T pooter forever!!!
I liked this comment in spite of being called Pooter 😅
People have always tried to cheat. The hobby always found ways to fix those. Metallic foil and/or plastic composite wrapping can easily make the boxes impervious to CT scanning.
That is only a band-aid fix for a greater problem., all the wax that currently exists. Anything you invested in, is now questionable or possibly unsellable in the future.
I agree 1000% with t pot and I’m glad it wasn’t pussyfooted around. I know what Jeff is saying about the families and Topps chrome but we’re talking how breaks are the biggest thing going for the hobby right now.
T pot is correct
T-Pott slowly becoming my favorite person in ur sports card community
If they added Booker or Embiid instead of Durant I would be very disappointed. I’m happy they added Durant.
This guy is full of it. I’m a breaker who hasn’t hit a downtown in over 200 boxes. That’s retail. I ordered from Walmart and brick and mortar Walmarts. At first we hit downtowns regurally for a long time. Then we couldn’t hit them anymore. I know they’re scanned. Also. Bots make it impossible to get select and optic football even when I know they’re going on sale. Don’t believe his trash. The hobby is DEAD. Want to bring it back. Have the companies making the boxes use something other than scannable cardboard to hold the packs, and do away with allowing bots to eat up all the boxes so people don’t have to pay the premium 2ndary market price. Until then forget it.
low end CT scanner is probably $50,000....Whats a box of flawless cost? yeah easy to make your money back
I really hope CT scans kill wax. The mystique that T-Pott refers to is long gone, the hobby is inaccessible already for most people. It's become a horrendous experience for the average consumer. Let singles rule.
That being said, Geoff is right, most people won't be affected by this. What it might do is kill the value of those high value packs that most of us didn't have access to before, and actually, is that so bad?
Great episode…….horrible this stuff happened but thank you for bringing it to light…..props
T-Pot….hero.
It might not gain traction as a business model but the technology is out there and once you acquire it, it doesn’t cost $75 a pack to use, then it becomes about owning the equipment and doing as much as possible,imo.
The companies can then pick the good product and off the junk to unsuspecting hobbyists.
Geoff- I respect the hell out of your opinions- but you are clearly just saying this as a knee jerk reaction to protect your breaking business. I'm not mad at it....but Tpott is 100% on point here. It massively affects the value of sealed wax, and breakers of any large size would be FOOLS not to scan boxes of high end product and feed it to their whales- even at a huge mark up. That is happening- it has to be. $80,000 for a CT Scanner is NOTHING compared to what these large breakers are selling in product- it's a common sense investment and I'm sad that I don't have the capital to take advantage. I'm tempted to create a company that just buys sealed wax, scans it, and then resells the duds and grades the grails. I could probably get backing on that business idea.
😂
I was watching a video of a buyer's POV at a London card show. In that card show, there was a vendor who was trying to sell a CT-scanned evolving sky pack for 2 thousand pounds($2575.75 US). I hope no one ever buys it.
Man hats off to my guy T-Pot for telling his conviction I get what Geoff is saying that it’s kinda bogey man right now but going forward it’s very much a problem for wax value and for breaks it just sows distrust in the industry and that’s not good for anyone. Geoff is too trusting in a hobby full of gamblers
Did Geoff get a call from Rubin telling him to stop putting out FUD about the whole CT scanner situation? He was just saying how bad it was just a few days ago. 🤔
Rubin probably doesn't even know
T-Pott spitting facts!!
🤝
Agree 100% with the percentage of people going to go after high end boxes that are at risk are a very little percentage.
However the over-arching issue is TRUST.
Consumers at any freaking level need to be able to TRUST the hobby. And if there's any fathomable reason to have doubt, on hits.. with how hard it is to get hits as it is now.
People will no longer risk -- THE CHASE -- that's what it's all about.
Am I crazy or couldn''t panini and topps just change the outside plastic wrapper for each hobby box? Rather than plastic use tin foil or line the wrapper with metallic strings. This would stop the ability to scan the box without taking off that wrapper. Which would be no different than buying an unsealed hobby box. Someone may buy it but at 10% of its true value.
That wouldn’t stop the ability to scan. It’s not like a microwave. Many packs are already foil.
What they need to do is use a radiosensitive film like Gafchromic to change color when exposed to radiation above a certain level.
On every box and every pack.
And BBCE needs to start wrapping their certified boxes in it. PSA needs to put it on their slabs when grading packs.
7:15 before Geoff let anyone speak other than himself 😂
“It’s not affecting you, so you shouldn’t care” miss me with that jeff
Until next weeks video where he’ll jump on the T Pott bandwagon and change his stance completely like he’s always done. Like when the market took the post Covid nosedive and Geoff claimed he was just a collector, now cards are back up and he’s back to being an investor.
It’s not the end of the hobby,but this issue has THEORETICALLY,almost killed the hobby. Considering the effects this issue brings to the table,this has kind of destroyed a huge piece of the hobby. And unfortunately,the damage is irreversible. Just the simple threat of certain items being scanned,is enough…
Two points can be somewhat true at the same time. It might be true that many products - due to cost - wouldn’t be scanned. The lower cost stuff. However, some of those same products may prove to be scannable in the future, as T-Pot indicated. This doesn’t even address the larger breaking companies (or any other that handle a lot of product) that may purchase their own CT scan machine, thus bringing down the average cost to scan. But the damage in this whole thing is this: it goes to the honesty, integrity, and overall trustability factor in the industry. It violates EVERYTHING a true hobbyist wants from the industry. The solution is not to sweep it under the rug, rather, its to prosecute them to the full extent and make them unwelcome in the hobby.
Well said T Pot. 100 percent correct.
I don't agree with Geoff when he said that 99% of buyers aren't affect because breaking has exploded! The average joe can now buy into a expensive boxes thru the break without paying the entire cost. Also, doesn't Cards HQ have 6 Breaker Pavilion rooms? Family friendly shop that offers gambling. Breaking is not the only thing affected, but investing in sealed wax will absolutely take a hit. I think most people who have ripped wax at any point understand that it's mostly a losing proposition, but keeping it sealed with the unknown will retain if not increase the value. Lastly, CT scanning, like any technology, will get cheaper and more powerful. There is more technology in your new iPhone then what was used in the space shuttle to fly to the moon. Cheating of any kind needs to be addressed and stopped or mitigated immediately and I do believe Topps will address this. Everyone has their own opinions, but I'm on team T-Pott with his backed by facts, statistical and legal.
Geoff, we understand you're a card shop owner that runs a big breaker operation -- you don't want people to break away from the hobby. You've got a great shop (been there twice), but you're wrong on this one. Teapot came prepared with facts. I thought for sure this was a planned, "we need to convince people it's not a big deal."
Appreciate your content either way.
11:07 facts get em T-Pot you the man standing on business 😂