Roy Halladay Icon A5 Crash Update
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- Опубліковано 8 лис 2017
- Keep Comments constructive, respectful and civil or you will be immediately booted out of the hangar permanently.
Links:
Icon Aircraft
Woodland, Ca.
www.iconaircraft.com/
/ iconaircraft
Icon Aircraft Purchase Agreement:
cdn.iconaircraft.com/v2/own-a5...
NTSB Report N184BA- Lake Berryessa
app.ntsb.gov/pdfgenerator/Rep...
NTSB Report N672BA Key Largo Fl.
app.ntsb.gov/pdfgenerator/Rep...
NTSB Update on N922BA Tampa Fla.
• NTSB update on death o... - Наука та технологія
Roy was a great friend of mine. We went to high school together we even had woodshop together. He was an amazing man even as a high school student. I remember him sitting at my wedding after he already started playing baseball Roy will always be missed buddy
Was thinking of the box canyon scenario and it sorta got me wondering about the use of one of the FIRST maneuvers I learned on my way to my commercial instrument rating (single and multi), namely the Chandelle. I also recall my dad (Ret. USAF Col., heavy bomber pilot, WWII, Korea and Vietnam), recapping the time, (as a youngster) when he almost busted his @ss in a box canyon scenario. Well into the escapade, he realized the canyon walls were "out performing" his aircraft's climb ability. He said the Chandelle saved his bacon,...and he never repeated or forgot that mistake in all 32 yrs and 12,000 hours. Very informative, unbiased video Juan. Thanks for taking the time...and for your easy delivery style.
What a cool kid you were, who grew up to be a communicator of renown in your love of flying and general enjoyment of the world. Thanks for all the great videos Juan.
You did an excellent job describing a very emotional accident, your professionalism came through very well.
Far and away one of my favorite pitchers I ever had the privilege to watch -- I saw him throw a complete game at Wrigley Field and he only gave up 2 hits and 1 walk and lost to the Cubs 1-0. He had an incredibly accurate fast ball and slider and then would sit hitters down with incredible off speed and breaking pitches. He could have pitched another year or two but he feared he'd eventually need back surgery if he continued and he turned down a $13 million offer from the Phillies so he could coach his kids' little league team. Doc earned over $145 million during his career, won 2 Cy Young awards, pitched 2 no hitters; 1 a perfect game, the other was only the 2nd playoff game no hitter in history. He'll be elected posthumously to the Hall of Fame without a doubt. A great pitcher, a classy guy, a great father, husband, teammate and person. Very unfortunate he made such poor decisions while at the controls of this plane. Rest easy, Doc!
You do a great job with you reports. I enjoy them all.
Thanks Juan, I have to agree with you regarding the Icon marketing. I've got 140 hours SEL, hardly an expert, but there is no way someone starting has the level of experience to perform the maneuvers depicted. This isn't a video game with do-overs. Flying is a joy but it's a great responsibility to our passengers and to those we fly over. From the sport pilot to the jet pilot; we owe it to ourselves, and the aviation community, to conduct every flight in a safe and professional manner.
Great explanation of this tragic accident and this aircraft, Juan. As an non-flying, avionics technician, I agree that the layout of the instruments looks a lot like a car, appealing to non-fliers. From a marketing perspective, pretty smart on ICON's part. The aircraft certainly has a lot of appeal. Thanks for covering this event in such a thoughtful way.
Luscombe! I owned serial number 854 for 23 years up until 2015. Had 1200 hours in it. Like the reputation of a pit bull, the Luscombe's reputation of being difficult on the ground was unwarranted, in my opinion. Like EVERY airplane, it had its quirks and as long as your respect that, it treats you right. Despite being based at a crosswind airport, never ground looped it. As I grow older, having to sell it will become a greater and greater regret. I say all of that to say how great it was to see your immaculate bird sitting behind you. Hang onto it as long as you possibly can!
Now this was extremely interesting...thank you!
Hi Juan, great 👍 video from an experienced pilot, so experienced that you are here 40 years later explaining a tragic and hopefully we learn from Roy’s death. Unfortunately, after each death we learn lessons to try and prevent this from occurring again!
Again Juan, wish you safe travels and many years of experiencing the gift of flight that all birds are blessed to possess!
Joan thanks for this informative report. I learned a lot of things about the aircraft and the regulations I didn't know. Keep up the great work!!!
Insightful and honest reporting, Juan. We can tell you were considering your audience as you formed your thoughts on this tragedy. If Icon Aviation was serious about their future plans, they would add you as a consultant and heed your advice.
"Stall" is universally understood by pilots and aviation enthusiasts...for others that may not be as familiar, the "stall" Juan is referring to is an "aerodynamic stall"... in the simplest of terms, the wing loses the ability to produce lift... it is NOT an engine failure, as in the engine stalled. With such a diverse following due to the excellent Oroville coverage, I thought I'd help reduce the confusion of some terms...great job Juan!
Good points from both of you. As you evidently know, generally a wing stalls when its angle of attack is too high, independent of speed or attitude. (e.g. at the top of a loop inverted at low speed in positive G, if you apply too much up elevator). Hence the great benefit of flying with an instrument displaying the AoA. I wish I'd had the experience of flying with one. I believe that it was the only instrument that the Wright brothers had: www.aviationtoday.com/1999/10/01/safety-if-it-was-good-enough-for-the-wright-brothers/
funkinflugen
Thank-you for your comment, it has cleared up a query in my mind.
James Baloun I never forgot my first stall with my instructor, and as to any altitude/ speed, AFrance from Rio- Paris fell out of the sky, after a high speed stall into the ATLANTIC.
Forgive me for this stupid question - I understand that a stall occurs when the angle of attack is too high and it is no longer able to produce lift, independent of speed or altitude. Does this mean that a small jet climbing vertically is technically in a stall, even though its engine is powerful enough to shoot the thing up like a rocket and it's climbing?
Justin Typically a wing stalls when the angle of attack exceeds about 15-17 degrees, independent of speed and aTtitude (as well as aLtitude). If an aircraft is climbing vertically (without pitching), any contribution to countering or exceeding the weight of the aircraft is provided by thrust (from the engine(s)). It does not require any lift (from the wings), which is why rockets do not need wings. The angle of attack is zero, so, no, the wing is not stalled.
Excellent evaluation. I have a non pilot friend who said he thought that he could fly one with no training at all. I told him NO. I sent him your video. Good job 👍
Juan, Great report. It’s apparent you’ve given this a lot of thought, and are being very deliberate with the information you are communicating. With your decades of flying experience, I️ truly respect your views and knowledge on this incident. It’s not surprising with the amount of money that was dumped into the development of the A5, that the price tag is what it is. Takes a lot of plane sales to recoup those millions.
Good Job
Good job! I like your simple plain talk explanations. Thank you.
Juan has become somewhat of a down to earth you tube guy, who attracted many folks given his thorough reporting on the Orville Dam and its construction repairs. THIS shows Juan is not having fun, just reporting. Clearly, he is moved by the death of his pilot buddy. This video shows him as the moved man, human, and missing a friend.
Thank you, as always, Juan, for level-headed, factual reporting. This reminds me of all the young military men who were "scraped off the pavement" in rural San Diego County 3-4 decades ago, in over their heads and skill set on "rice rocket" motorcycles.
~Leslee~ God I remember those days here in The Bay Area. Lost 3 friends to those bikes. Our government outlawed several of those bikes. Or the Viper 20 years ago killing hundreds of young kids. And now the supercars of today. e.g. Paul Walker. Something like 65% of all those Porsches have been totaled. Just unsafe even for professionals.
I see the other day a Koenigsegg Agera RS set the land speed record for a Street Legal car. 284 miles per hour! And anyone who can afford it can drive it. Are you kidding me.
Stay Tuned....
the poor old boys accelerator stuck and was only doing 230 mph when he rear ended that family. still trying to determine what type of vehicle they were in. Insane. Really.
I smell a huge lawsuit here with this plane and it's altimeter.
This is a most informative video ! Thanks for posting. I've been intrigued by the Icon A5 concept & wish them success.
Except with their price gouging. $384,000.00? Are you serious? NO WAY would I pay that much for ANY plane, unless it was an airliner with a peter massager. That's WAY TOO much. What a joke! That Ray guy just bought himself a VERY expensive trip to eternity.
Once again Juan, you are on point with your report. When I was learning to fly, my dad would tell me never play next to the edge of the sky. Sadly,this is why. Thanks MC
"never play next to the edge of the sky" - that is a markedly profound statement. And every day I see the pilots and crew in the C-17s living near that edge (we live under the final approach pattern at Joint Base Lewis McChord, and they are constantly doing touch-and-go training. I never tire of seeing the C-17 maneuvering, it has a certain beauty to it).
My deepest Thanks to all who served, or are currently serving - We remember, and will never forget, this Veteran's Day (as well as every other day).
Excellent report Juan! I notice you chose your words carefully in some places. I agree completely that targeting the low hour to no hour public to fly a somewhat sporty plane may give low hour pilots, with the cash, a false sense of security. I remember in power boating we often spoke of situational awareness, particularly weather conditions, weight and position of crew and cargo, preparation of crew for the trip, etc. But with my power boat cruising at 25 knots, top end about 31 knots, is far different from even a modest speed plane flying at 80 to 100 knots. Things happen very quickly in a plane, and per-planning maneuvers is far more important in planes than many power boats performing basic maneuvers. I've also seen many UA-cam and TV videos about causes of aircraft crashes, large and small, and these often impact the future of aviation for safety, instrumentation, and training of pilots. Even professional pilots have made mistakes at air shows and paid the ultimate price. Being cautious and restrained is far wiser, boring maybe, but you get to go home safely at the end of the day if you're prudent in your boating and flying activities. I look forward to hearing the NTSB's report, but it will likely say the pilot did not give himself enough room for maneuvers for which he was ill equipped to perform, i.e. he took needless risks... pilot error.
Man I love that Icon been following it a while - real sorry to hear and thanks for the narration good info!
Another great breakdown. Easy for us “non-pilot but still enthusiasts” to understand a little better. 👍🏻
This is easily the best report on this accident and aircraft. The idea of a small amphibious AC is very appealing, particularly for places like Alaska where there are few actual airports but a lot of lakes, rivers and streams. To this day one of my all time favorite AC was the WWII PBY Catalina -- I'd love to see a modern version of that.
Raptorman0909 I too loved the PBY, back in the 40s after THe war there was an airline , flying out of KINGSTON JAMAICA BWI , I was a passenger to Grand Cayman, as a water landing there, as there was no airport there as yet, in Kingston was an airport landing. As grew older, learned more about them.
Forgive me if i am wrong, but a hundred horsepower for 2 persons, an aircraft and cargo is I believe looking for trouble if flown in very unforgiving circumstances which Alaska has a lot.
PinoyGeek - yeah, 100hp sound low to me as well. Just as with cars and motorcycles having enough power can be a life saver and having too little...
The reason why flying boats will never be as popular in places like Alaska, as something with floats installed, is water operations, how do you dock one. Plus its difficult to get in and out of one on the water, without getting wet.
Well, actually, airplanes including seaplanes and other amphibious planes ARE pretty popular in Alaska as there are MANY places not reachable any other way except by snow mobile or off road vehicle and over long distances those two options are not all that great. Oh, and people routinely board/deplane from such AC without getting wet. Try getting to 64.378611N, 151.284828W without a plane...
Thanks for another great story.
Great video. Full of logic and well thought out. Trying not to be envious of all your flight hours and career. Thanks for the update.👍🏼
Very well put. I sure enjoy your videos. Thanks for putting in the time for a well thought out analysis on many different subjects.
Excellent summing up.
Thank you.
Very well done, and informative video! I have been following the progress of the Icon A5 very early on in its development. At one point my wife and I were actually very strongly considering putting a deposit on one, and getting in line.. like anyone else who has been following this aircraft closely, and has seen literally every video that Icon has put out, it was just overwhelmingly shocking to hear about the crash that took the lives of its designer and lead engineer. Of course having been so intimately interested in this aircraft, news of fatal accidents in it peaked our curiosity as to whether or not the aircraft design was a factor. So far as you mentioned, all three accidents occurred in this aircraft were pilot error, which leaves a very thin silver lining with regard to the aircraft itself, however, you are dead on point about the aircraft being marketed to wealthy yet very inexperienced pilots, and marketing it in a way that encourages or promotes very risky flying. Water operations alone require a level of skill that many experienced pilots already find challenging, and it’s virtually unheard of for brand new inexperienced pilots to immediately take up water flying. It absolutely does happen, in places where there are limited other options for airports, but hobby and recreational flying typically does not include water operations except by very experienced, well trained pilots. I am in 100% agreement with you that the way that they are marketing this aircraft may very well be the downfall of the company, as they continue to accumulate a high accident rate per number of aircraft produced, if they continue on a course of putting the aircraft in the hands of very inexperienced brand new pilots, especially those with over-confident, thrill-seeking personality types that are more likely to engage in hotdogging, and high risk maneuvering.
Well done report, answers a lot of questions pilots have about these accidents. Thanks for you time and effort.
Thanks Juan.These technical details we’ll never get in the MSM.Your experience as a pilot is very beneficial.
Thanks for filming in front of the Luscombe.
Flying close to the water for any purpose other than landing is dangerous. Water provides no depth perception. Low flight over water can claim the life of an experienced pilot.
So true...as witnessed by the Eurofighter pilot accident only a little more than a month ago during the Terracina Airshow. Recipe for disaster for virtually any pilot...
Lorrin Barth Thank You. I am not a pilot just an aviation enthusiast. I had read several other aviation publications and most are pointing to this as being a recipe for disaster for low time flight hours pilots. So flying low over water is a caveat for any level of flying experience.
Don't totally agree, you do need to practice landing and if it's a body of water you are anticipating using a lot in the future it might be safe to identify a few different approaches so you have options and will be more inclined to choose a better one than doing what you always do regardless of the wind or water surface.
Great video! Thanks for the comments on that bad accident. Love the paint color on the Silvaire! That takes me back to my teen-hood flying days!
Very good information answered all the questions that I was wondering about so thank you very much you did a great job with this video🛩
Thank-you Juan, a very interesting video, although very sad. You seem somewhat touched by this, was he someone you knew? If he was, I feel for you as I do for his family.
Your reporting is always done professionally...
Roy had made a trip two weeks before that had about scared me to death as I live 1/4 of a mile from the crash. I had honestly thought my house was going to get hit cause he was going so low. He was living his best life that's for sure.
He was getting high as a kite in both senses of the word. Between he and Elvis, I'm not sure who had more drugs in their system.
Very informative. Thanks for taking the time to produce and share - much appreciated.
Well put thanks Juan..
Juan, Thank you for this epic analysis of a very unfortunate event. Very well thought out and well presented. Often, the dreams of men are not always achieved. The production of the Icon is most likely close to its end. These three events will be hard for them to overcome this early in production and sales numbers. Thrill flying is NOT for the inexperienced or timid! That needs to be left to the air show specialist. Even then, rarely, but they do make mistakes too. The Icon marketing strategy is a poor attempt to sell units to inexperienced pilots! Again, thank you for this report.
I, too greatly appreciate your sober, factual analysis in words I can understand.
Great job on a rainy day Juan, I had read Roy had picked up the A5 on Oct 12, 2017. A little over 3 weeks before his death.
Very sad for sure, thanks
I see that there are 166 thumbs down viewer's. That just shows how many people who have refused to understand flight reality from a professional pilot. Sad isn't it!
Maybe 167 people expecting entertainment video and get a technical discussion. Still. No reason to down vote. Great discussion.
True
It is sad but I would wager it was more to do with his presentation skills?
I muse on the thought, "How many of the down voters will go on to have accidents?" My Dad trained at March Field in PT-1s. Our family has a picture of him standing in front of the barracks under the sign saying, "There are old pilots, and there are bold pilots, but there are NO old, bold pilots."
sherman squires : what, you don’t think he tells it like it is?
A couple or...of things..First of all.. I just subscribed. Very well done. The aircraft is a bit pricy for the masses that I fly with anyway. I had a Tri Pacer with tips and vortex generators and the "stall" was a nose high 1400 fpm elevator ride down. For a lot less money I might add.
I have been flying for over 30 years as a private pilot with inst. rating and a few endorsements. Been around ultra lights quite a bit but have flown only hang gliders and " full on " aircraft of many types and designs including experimental of which I now own a Cygnet SF2A. I have test flown experimental as well as checked out factory aircraft after a major repair..in short ( sorry for the book here )..a jet ski with wings would be more suited to an ultra light description but even then " it is terribly unforgiving of any carelessness, incapacity or neglect".
Thanks Juan, Being in Phila, I've seen Roy pitch and hard to believe he's gone at the age of 40. Thank you for keeping us informed.
Thanks for the update on this horrible crash. Appreciate your professional opinion on this issue. Please keep us updated, as you always do.
Juan, your comments about the marketing of the Icon A5 is spot on. I'm a retired airline pilot. When I watched the promotional video on the Icon A5, I was disgusted at the type of hype advertising they were using. It's glitzy with catchy music, but it was short on details while long on glamour. I blame the Icon promotion team for attracting the wrong sort of people to buy the airplane. I also blame the design team for making it look like a car inside. That's perhaps even more sinister in misleading inexperienced people to believe that it's easy and safe. You'll likely recall Thurmon Munson, another baseball star, who died in a training crash of a Cessna Citation that he bought as a relatively low time pilot. It's the doctor in a Bonanza effect, to really pile on the stereotypes. Most of us didn't have enough money to get into more difficult airplanes until later in our aviation experience. Not that you can't do dangerous, crazy, and stupid things, that puts your life at risk, in a simple aircraft.
The issue boils down to too much money and a dangerous mindset regarding aviation. We've all done some dangerous things and gotten away with it. But we knew very well that we could die at any moment from even a minor mistake. I know I came close a few times early on. Fortunately, I was lucky as well as good enough until I had better judgment.
What I saw in the video was rather astonishing. Even the non-pilot boaters were appalled at what they saw.
Early in my flying, before my first professional flying job, I subscribed to Aviation Accident Report for about two years. After reading that many issues, I began seeing the same type of accident recycled with new participants. I then ceased my subscription. I suppose I read the details at least 200 accidents in that publication. That kept me very sober about flying.
I frequently tell people that it's relatively easy to fly airplanes, but the judgment required to stay alive takes experience as well as a good attitude in assessing risks. It doesn't mean you can't have fun, but it's important to always have an out. If you haven't left yourself an out, the alternative is to only get in those situations rarely, and with full knowledge of the risks. Low exposure (in time or number of repetitions) to high risk situations is best, if you're going to go there at all.
yep, its easy to take a straight path short cut to learn to fly, but much tougher learning how not to die. Many instructors are just low hour pilots trying to get hours. Not many experienced pilots want to be instructors. If you find one, its a gem of a find!
Thanks for sharing you knowledge and vast experiences.
Do you think that many of the manufacturers are marketing to those “doctors” and more accomplished (ie have disposable income) stereotypical newcomers?
If they are looking at things I’m a pure business perspective can we hold them responsible for what the end user does with their aircraft?
5 feet above the water isn't much room for error, unfortunately some people only learn the hard way
Nice to view such a thoughtful analysis of a "high profile" accident that ususally is given short shrift from most media. Thanks. I'm glad it was raining and you had the time.
Hey Juan, Great update from a real world perspective (ie 40 years flying) - I'm an engineer and competitive sailor rather than an aviator but I've found your videos on Oroville Dam as a (thinking) citizen reporter, 1st class. Feel that with the current overload of variable quality news, that your approach defines the way out of the quagmire currently enveloping the 4th estate! Keep up the good work - Cheers, BB
I now have an understanding of the story, something I could not get on the TV news.
I believe only the composite parts are fabricated in Mexico. Mfg is in Vacaville. Original design and intended mfg. was done in Tehachapi, CA.
Beech Bonanza had a similar market entry in that it was the first high performance “personal” aircraft on the market after WW2 (1947). Its appeal was towards a lot of minimally trained, low time pilots that got into trouble quickly. Marketing of owner/pilot aircraft has always tended towards the adventure/status/glamor” interests...”When you arrive in your Beechcraft Duke, people look to see who gets out.” If it weren’t for today’s sims and pilot certification requirements, the single pilot, owner flown jet would have some pretty bad accident rates.
Excellent reporting, as usual, Juan.
After a 31 year life in military and commercial aviation, the way I managed to put nearly 25,000 hours in my logbook was to remind myself that death was always a possibility if I cut corners or got lazy. In commercial aviation, there were hundreds seated behind me that would suffer the same fate as I.
Flying is incredibly safe if you keep that in mind and fly well within your ability. What is the old saying... "Don't let your ego get you into a situation your good hands have to get you out of." Sadly, new guys don't always know their limits, or the limits of their aircraft. Roy was doing something that he loved and finally lived. Sad for him but even more for his wife and kids. Hopefully, Icon will survive and everyone will learn from this accident.
Be safe out there...
Thank You for the Update. Appreciate your honesty and experience.
It's the same heartbreaking story time and time again. I've seen that Icon video and while you and I know the standard "Professional pilots, closed course" disclaimer and it plays automatically for us. The jet ski/cruise control to get there crowd doesn't get it. There's also a lot of difference between hitting the water at 25 MPH from a jet ski and 120 KTS from 300 AGL.
The Icon's a great concept. Perhaps it should be re-certified as a standard category GA aircraft. That would at least put 40+ hour pilots at the stick. I'd think a complex and seaplane endorsement might be a good idea too.
Icon will scream, but at the end of the day well trained pilots may well save the aircraft.
I went to the Icon stand at AirVenture 2014 to try and find out more information on the aircraft for a friend, no matter who I spoke to or what literature I was able to get, no details of cruise speed, only top speed, and far more importantly no details of payload or rate of climb. An amphibian that needs to be able to climb out of lakes and rivers, that are typically surrounded by high/forested terrain, and a company not willing to disclose rate of climb. You can probably guess I told my friend to stay well away from this aircraft.
Very complete analysis. It boils down to the professionalism of the instruction, and imparting that professionalism onto the student.
Also agree, as a retired private pilot appreciated your excellent report.
Report very well done....
The A5 looks like a great airplane. Unfortunately at 700 hours as a private pilot, he was cashing checks his experience level and airplane could not support! Very sad accident that did not need to happen. My thoughts and prayers go out for his family and friends! Some of us survive mistakes in our early days as aviators. Some of us do not! We have all made them! We all share the same passion! After 18,000 hours, 34 years, and 5 airlines, I am lucky to always have moved my experience forward as an aviator. And never had an accident. Knock on wood! Aviation is very unforgiving for the inexperienced and experienced alike! As for angle of attack indicator, an angle of attack indicator is also very common in "civilian" aircraft. Not unique to military aircraft at all. Learjet, Metro Liner, Mitsubishi MU-2, and many others. Common to many jet and turbo prop types civilian or military. A great tool. Lift and gravity however, remain the same since the beginning of aviation. Military or civilian. Understanding the rules of flight, and the capabilities of your flying machine, and yourself are what keep you alive! If I could afford it, I would not hesitate to fly or buy the A5! A great airplane. If operated within it's capabilities! Not trying to put down or disrespect anyone. Just stating the facts! As I understand them! Always open to differing opinions or thoughts! Thank you for your reports and videos Blancolirio! I always enjoy your comments. And especially the flying in your classic airplane! :)
Jim Gillespie Thanks for posting your comment. Much appreciated.
I'm not a pilot (wish I were) so I have no opinion on AOA indicator, but here ua-cam.com/video/y73tnUn6ETY/v-deo.html Chuck Yeager calls it a stupid instrument.
Then I’m guessin Yeager never landed on a carrier. AOA and A/S are primary instruments at the ship.
You've flown for 5 different airlines? Not too many pilots can say that. I'm guessing there were a few different bankruptcies involved.
1 liquidation. One I quit. 2 mergers.
Thank you Juan for the great analytics. I had not heard of any crashes of the Icon A5, I do agree with your take on the slick advertisement. I am a pilot with over 1200 hours in both single and multi engine Aircraft. Mostly overseas. I'm a 58 year old retired Air Force I was enlisted and my Specialty was in Crash Retrieval. I have attended more than 26 crashes in my 10 plus years. The last one took me out of the game along with my left leg below the knee. So I was thinking of getting my recreation license and maybe going into debt for the A5. I guess that's not an option anymore. I am subscribed to your channel and look forward to gleaning great flying info, even though I don't fly anymore.
Thanks for the report Juan! and Thank you for your service!
Well stated, Juan. I always enjoy your reports. My aviatiin experience is primarily as a USAF Experimental Test Pilot and I have flight time in 67 types/models. But, most of my time is in fighter jets and the points you made about low level and formation flying are right on target. Keep up the great videos!
Thank you, Juan. Very enlightening!
Proximity to the ground and velocity in relation to it as a direct emotional modifier, sad. More experienced pilots would not, but then they mostly wouldn't because of hearing about accidents like this, thinking about it the next time they fly, absorbing the lesson. It sucks to be the lesson instead of the student. Condolences to the family, the aviation community, and baseball fans, for the huge loss.
Juan,
NICE REPORT! , explaining that flying jet ski, and what it takes to fly one,
AND THANK YOU FOR YOUR SERVICE TO COUNTRY !!!
Thanks for sharing your insight Juan. Great reporting and coverage.
Very well done Juan. I am a pilot of 30 years and have seen the same thing happen over and over with low time pilots doing things beyond they pilot skill. As the saying goes "never lie to your airplane, it will kill you"!
At first I said at least he died doing what he loved. But watching the footage of his crash and the other pilot videos that show that Icon was acting dangerously and giving these pilots a extended level of confidence. I don’t see Icon going on much farther. Remember when John Denver died the EZ suffered.
As a ex pilot it makes me sick watching a guy kill them self . Other pilots around him must have known that he did not have the proper mindset to safely operate any aircraft.
Yep...John Denver and the EZ...I immediately thought of this as Juan was talking. And John Denver was a very experienced pilot. His Dad had been a test pilot for the Air Force and set 3 speed records in the B-58 Hustler, and taught Denver how to fly after John got famous.
marbleman52 I remember seeing John Denver at our airport (I was a child) he was a great pilot. That was such a preventible crash. I don’t know how Icon will get out of this mess.
john denver had his license suspended due to alcohol and should not have been flying still sad though . prayers to Halladay family.
I don't know if this was ever proven as fact but some sources said he wanted to buzz Clint Eastwoods house in Carmel by the Sea. Mistakes all around by John that day. Juan is correct that flying requires attention and sometimes very little margins of error. I wonder if this airplane will be another-Widowmaker!
The story that I read is that John was planning on buzzing his 2nd wife's house. The fuel selector valve was in a bad spot...behind him. He didn't fill up the gas tanks...had never flown this particular plane...had just bought it from Burt Rutan ( I think..? )...had not practiced with the odd placement of the fuel transfer valve. Some rumors say that he committed suicide but others say that he was getting his life back on track. I became a fan early on in the early 1970's. He had a unique voice, had some of the best musicians backing him up. Even the legendary " Wrecking Crew" drummer, Hal Blaine, played on some of his stuff.
I found this presentation to be very informative. Thank you very much.
Good video Juan. I appreciate your direct, honest stance on the aircraft. Well done.
So precious Warbirds aren't the only planes destroyed by hot rodding.
well said.
Thanks for an informative report. Good to hear the pros and cons. Can't fly, medical. But I did maintain heavies. Started out in avionics. Transitioned to maintenance supervisor with exceptional release authority the last few years of my career. Love the 'birds'!
Thank-you for your insightful and personal comments on this.
RAF Tornado pilots in the first gulf war found it difficult to fly at low altitudes. These are top gun pilots no tyros.
The problem I see with this type of aircraft is, people want them not to “fly” but to zip around like a fighter jet in a movie. These guys need to spend their money on a great flight simulator and not kill themselves.
Yeah that is all we need, flight simulators, life simulators, work simulators, and the list goes on. How about we take control of our lives better?
OR others.
NOTE TO ADRENALINE JUNKIES:
STAY AWAY FROM AIRCRAFT! YOU THRILL SEEKING IS RUINING IT FOR EVERYONE ELSE WHO HAVE COMMON SENSE! GO PLAY ON THE RAILROAD TRACKS SOMEWHERE.
🤸♀️🤸♂️🚄🚃🚃🚃🚃🚃🚃🚃🚃🚃
@Yakav8r55m: DO YOU ASSUME PEOPLE ARE YELLING JUST BECAUSE THEY USE ALL CAPS? THAT'S THE MOST PEACEFUL 'YELL' I'VE EVER WROTE? I WASN'T YELLING. DID IT HURT YOUR EYES, OR YOUR BRAIN FOR BEING TOO LOUD? YOU'RE THE ONE WHO SHOULD BE MOVING ALONG NOW. 😁
Flying is serious stuff, gravity is unforgiving if you can't understand that you shouldn't be flying.
Glen Turney I have to admit I used to type a lot in ALL CAPS too. It all started with all those TELEX “conversations” with ships orders and then came the new facsimile machines (which were the size of a small desk) and we naturally typed the forms we used the same way. Then the youngsters decided CAPS in themselves meant something. So we are supposed to stop yelling now unless we really meant to.
very sad......tomorrow I begin my LSA training, this is a stark reminder of how important safety is......42 yrs ago I was a student pilot with 30 hrs, when I stopped to enter med school. never had a chance to go back until now after retiring.....we can honor roy by staying vigil with safety.......safety....safety.....
Juan, Wow! What a great report with analysis-based-on-your-extensive-experience. (You won’t be hired as a spokesman to market the Icon!).
I’m not a pilot, but have learned alot about aviation (as well as dam construction) from watching all your videos since early 2017 (plus, your previous blogs-before you became famous!). Thanks.
Heard of this incident from here in the UK - sounds like too much exuberance and too little experience, wouldn’t be the first in that category I’m sure. Isn’t there an old expression of old pilots and bold pilots? Etc etc.......Making big assumptions here of course, need to see what the NTSB bring out - good stuff Juan
What power level would you want for the engine ? And the higher power level would bump it out of the sport aircraft ? Thank you for the video ! tjl
This aircraft of this weight and purpose would do better starting with 130 hp and up. The Rotax engine can be modded for hp in that range but will fall out of certification. conventional aircraft engines like the Lycoming 0-235 and 320 produce adequate power but will add considerable empty weight to the aircraft .
videoclipits+ Sounds like a job for a turbocharger.
If it was a somewhat more austere aircraft it would likely weigh less, which is another way to boost performance.
Amphibious aircraft have always been traditionally overpowered. There are good reasons for this, and all from hard won experience. They NEED the extra power to overcome initial water drag, to operate at high rates of climb, to carry the extra weight that an amphibian has over a conventional aircraft.
Once you start shedding power to fit into a category, you are definitely going the wrong way about it. The WEIGHT limit is the issue, they tried to side step the regulations by keeping power down and to fit into a lower category, but failed to reduce the weight to compensate. This was a very poor decision.
Water landing A/c are always on the heavier side.
ty for the info Juan , my class and me in Power Plant class were talking about this the day of his crash
Nice review of the Icon A5 situation. You hit the nail on the head.
Back in the good ol' days (wright brothers), the damn guvamint didn't interfere with who could fly and who couldn't.
Ya we dont live in them good old days any longer... Sorry if you think they will ever be back... They Wont... lts a new day we live in... lm not saying l like it , but I'm trying to be a realist... Big BRO is in our SHORTS IN EVERY WAY... Jest Saying
@@tracym1208 'twas but a wee bit o' me snark...
Seems like a toy to use when the Lamborghini is in the shop and the yacht is in dry dock. Unfortunately Flying is not as forgiving of stupidity.
I flew hang gliders many years ago... I was ever so careful and worked through pilot ratings, increasingly "spectacular" sites etc and eventually had the most amazing experiences. without that training and careful approach, I would have been toast. I agree - it looks like this dude has overcooked it.
Conceived as a toy, marketed as a toy, flown like a toy. It's a toy that'll kill you if you treat it like one.
Thanks for this very informative video. You gather all that info !!. . . thanks. Youre good at this sir !!
You are right on the mark. I saw the A5 marketing videos and was amazed. Then I did an introductory flight and could not imagine doing anything more than steady, level, intelligent flying for at least my first 200 hours. Even if I could afford one I'd buy an old Cessna and jetski instead.
Flying is a wonderful experience, more so if you are the pilot, but his pitch down and heavy bank left him with no escape.
Bull$hit - dumbarse rich idiot that over estimated his "Skill". I flew hang gliders for 6 years and attained pilot rating 3. This moron completely fuc%ed it up because he was stupid and assumed he was Tom Cruise..... in ten minutes
Roy Halladay must of learned to fly the A5 from Jon Karkow as it appears they both just turned off or ignored the AA safety system.
@@mweb1 Thank you.
Awesome talk on this subject. Very informative and unbiased.
A very good video with a very knowledgeable person... I hope these types of aircraft will be re-certified in category. The sad performance of Mr Halladay proves that flying requires much more control. I hope many others will think more when flying.
The jet ski with wings marketing is the problem. Make a mistake with a jet ski and your going 20 mph, make a mistake with an A5 and it is un-survivable.
You’ve been riding the wrong jet skis, my friend. Stock ones will do 70+mph no problem. Your point is still valid, but you can certainly get killed on a jet ski.
I don't think $389,000 is for the masses.
joe Schlotthauer in the aviation world, yes
joe Schlotthauer for the price they are asking, you can buy a perfectly good glass cockpit Cessna 172/182, both of which are proven airframes compared to this hunk of junk.
Chris i don't think it's piece of junk. Those stall characteristics are hard to come by. Like Juan said, I think it's being marketed to a group of people that maybe shouldn't be flying. Like the saying goes. "There are old pilots and there are bold pilots but there are no old - bold pilots." All indications so far point to Doc having been among the "bold" pilots.
For that price, it is almost a brand new Cessna 172 with G1000.
for an extra $30m you can just get a challenger 350.
Thanks for the great presentation. I'm not a pilot but have been fascinated by flying for many years. I was a Navy officer on an aircraft carrier during Vietnam. Watched many launches & recoveries including airwing carrier qualifications (scary!) Night landings in rough seas are tense moments for the pilots. My nephew retired from the air force, flew C22, C5, C17s, now flies 737s. So I've had lots of insight into flying, from the outside.
There are old pilots and bold pilots but there are no old bold pilots is always a good thought to keep in the back of your mind. Juan as always another great video.
So sad. Prayers to the family.
Nothing wrong with the ICON. Roy was flying like an idiot and bit the farm. Some kids flying a 172 by my house did the same thing doing hammerhead stalls at low altitude and lawn darted right into a river. Stupidity and airplanes dont mix.
incredibly informational and interesting. Very professional presentation of something that will draw in a lot of not flying people like myself .
Very good explanation. I am (was) interested in this aircraft and have been following this news story.