My daughter obtained 10 cxc in the last sitting. She only received 1 grade 3 in Mathematics. She was denied entry to sixth form at Holy Childhood. They wanted her to have either grade 1 or 2 in Mathematics. I had to encourage my child and redirect her on another path to get to her future goal. Some of these schools are messing with our students mentally. As parents we have to support our children and encourage them to be resilient.
Whoa that is so wrong . If she passed all the others and didn't get the grade in only one, whoa that's terrible so glad we're at a place where we don't get penalised for one subject or even two. Why not let her retake that subject terrible
@shellyannrounce2139 No wonder our education system is so pop down and backward. We are losing our best teachers and students to overseas. Those old dinosaurs in our school system and in the Ministry of Education need to go and let young minds with fresh ideas take over.
I honestly think that the Ministry of Education is operating like someone with a mental disorder undetected. How can you give absolute power to people and don't think that absolute power will corrupt absolutely. It is a sad day in our nation when we allow so-called rules to tarnish the reputation of our children's future. Dionne it is happening everywhere in our schools. Administrators make some 'crazy' rules that do not advance our children's development. They show nothing short of prejudice, sabotage and injustice. Too much false pride is seen in the manner these Administrators operate and what is sad is that the MOEY empowers them to make these decisions that impact our children negatively. A case in point is when a traditional high school gives a child a Conduct Mark because she wore a natural hairstyle that the school deemed a violation of their so- called image.😢 Where do we go for help. We should all take to the streets and demand justice for our children, no wonder we are losing them to overseas opportunities. We make it too difficult for them to grow in their own country. Other countries treat their children with love and respect. Teaching/learning experience is so easy and free. We are burdening our bright young minds and if we continue sooner or later we will suffer as a result. Something needs to be done to prevent an occurrence.
My son while attending KC got 2 grade ones math and English 4 grades 2 in the sciences and 4 grades 3 in other subjects and was told that they cannot offer him a space to do the sciences in sixth form. He was placed in a lesser re-known school and did exceptionally good in both lower and upper six. He went on to utech and did chemical engineering and graduated with upper second class honors. Sometimes things happen to push our children forward
This is exactly the reason why standards exist. Adversity creates character and humility and pushes our kids to be better persons in society. If you want a spot, you have to keep performing to the standard. We can not keep letting things slide. We are no longer able to talk to our kids anymore as random strangers who see them doing something wrong.
Sad part is...some High Schools pressure their students so much and ALL a we end up in the same classes at University(nationally and internationally) including those from the not so top high schools...all a we end up inna the one pot!
I left ICHS 21 years ago. If this was happening at my time, the school would have kicked out a future Ivy-League-trained doctor, a PhD scholar, and I’m sure countless other high-performing members in society, who are now arguably leaders in their respective fields. This is a stupid rule that goes against what Immaculate should be about - cultivating well-rounded minds with strong character and talent. Not just grade machines. How shallow! They just effectively disposed of years worth of social capital invested in who I am sure is a fine young lady, over a grade.
Grade machine is spot on indeed. That's all schools like Imac cares about now. It's no longer about their development of students. They must come ready made and the school then uses their performance to boost its image and ranking.
@@kerryanncoaching I agree with you fully. She was not even given the opportunity to redeem herself. In college they will put you on academic probation before expulsion. It is not about where you start but where you finish in life.
The decision to bar the student from matriculating to upper six at Immaculate Conception High due to one satisfactory grade reflects an elitist culture. It prioritizes academic perfection, marginalizes diverse talents, and reinforces social hierarchies. The school seems focused on maintaining its prestige rather than supporting students' growth, limiting opportunities for those who may need more academic support. This approach perpetuates inequality and intensifies pressure on students to meet unrealistic standards.
These rules only benefit the school. They like to boast how many 1s they got at CAPE. In this case they will have to report that at least one student got a grade 4 (which is what they were trying to avoid by setting this rule) so they punish her. It's all about the school's image
So glad you started UA-cam Dionne! Enjoy your quality journalism standards and fearless commentary. I was getting a bit concerned for a while when 90% of Jamaican content on UA-cam was "mix-up" and gossiping vloggers 😂😂😂
I'm a Primary School teacher and I endorse every word you've said. I have seen and experienced situations like this. Thank you for the exposure. Nothing to do with standards which benefit students only the administrators. It's all about collecting data to compile records.
This is solely on the SCHOOL THAT DIRECTLY INVOLVE, THIS IS NOT A DOING OF THE MINISTRY OF EDUCATION, get a brain to think sensibly and not one politically motivated. MY OPINION.
I agree. If the MOE had balls all they'd do is to instruct ICHS to accept this student and the issue would be resolved. The fact that the principal can come out and speak in the strident way she has, shows that she has no regard for what anyone else outside of the school admin has to say.
Mrs Reynolds doesn't deserve the post of headmistress of that school she is a cruel taskmaster. Every school she goes to, she leaves her mark. From St. George's, to Mt. Alverna High and now to Immaculate. She is not only cruel to her students but to her staff as well. She has no heart.
Staff been there that not well and she not helping them, students there that not well she nuh help only when things get out of hand she rush in for a grand spectacle. HSA not as involved because of her. She only care about image and how things present themselves. She is cruel, wicked, terrible!!
Moved my daughter to Ardenne after 9th grade. best decision ever. Immaculate was a elitist nightmare and there is no communication and they always made us feel that we were so lucky to be there and very condescending principal. On the plus side you get all the help you need if your first name is Doctor. All hype. My daughter is currently is in UWI doing very well. Don't worry about court dear parent...move her. She already has her cape and she will get her degree regardless. And future parents don't be brainwashed by the lure of Immaculate and Campion.
All d one campion she me Dem all too well...n a dere mi daughter av fi r first choice eno mi beg God she no pass fi deh cuz a bay elite Dem deal wid n my money no tun up
This must be devastating for the promising young leader and her mom. Continue to pursue your passion and never quit. So disappointed in the decision of the principal. Standards are lower many times to accommodate those of the upper class.
The moment a child get the acceptance for lower 6 there should be no reason for that child not to be barred from upper 6 Immaculate need to revised that rule my heart goes out for that young girl
Sadly though...this is not the only school that would do this claiming they have to maintain standards. So high school in Jamaica is not about facilitating advancement of your child to become all they can be...it is about maintaining a self imposed image of academic prowess on the purse of tax payers. Education continues to fail our youth with this elitist construct. We clearly haven't noticed where that has put us.
I agree we need standards, but those standards must be reasonably, rational and just. You made an excellent point Ms. Jackson-Miller. I suspect there is another factor, possibly victimization of some sort due to something non-academic.
I honestly think there is some personal grievance between parents and school that is more adversely affecting student.. because I struggle to believe what is reported would cause such drastic action by that principal..Hope the young lady in question realize she has not failed and what happened was just a bump in the road that should only be used as motivation to chart even a brighter course, hence putting her detractors to shame.. more power to the young lady and shame on the ministry of education..
I agree with you Ms. Jackson. This happens as a result of people at the MOE being allowed to turn a blind eye to biased attitudes of many school administrators and their boards over many years. Too many parents are unconcerned about this nonsense. When I was in high school, one of our classmates got into a fight with another student who happened to be the son of someone who worked at the school. Our principal, in his wisdom decided to suspend our batchmate but not the other student. We basically walked out of class until he was brought back. Many of us who still keep in touch, would do it all over again.😮😮
This is completely ludicrous. This is an upper school student who clearly has done well...The funny thing is once you reach university and graduate level a person's result at cxc and cape is irrelevant noone asks about that..Bwoy the plantation mentality is alive and well.Bwoy even when our young people that we complain so much about are trying in Jamaica I find Administrators oftentimes times tear them down. In life even if there are rules, there ia a thing called assess on a case by case basis smh..I wish that child the very best and nothing less than excellence as she has been doing.
Well said Dion👍..... What is called the MINISTRY of EDUCATION is the REAL FAULT here....No TAXPAYER -FUNDED school should have the power to make a silly elitist rule like that....but then again the said Ministry of Education does the same in many instances. Jamaica's education system is modelled off the PLANTATION SYSTEM....it has not changed much since Emancipation and so -called independence!
Well said Dionne. Thank you for illuminating this issue. I totally agree with your position. "Rules must be fair and mek sense". This was an egregious and excessive decision and action by the school. The MOE continues to allow the victimization of students. Does the MOE take the same approach with all schools or just the so called elite schools? Simple answer is no because many students would have to leave school at lower six if that were the case. A double standard is being applied here because of the institution in question.
If the rules dem “don’t make no sense” then WHY parents crawl and claw to get their kids into these schools? Everyone want dem kids to go top a top school but them not ready for the level of work that these schools require! U want big name school but don’t want work to maintain it?? Crazy
Exactly. That’s the subject that would have the least bearing on her future career success compared to computer science etc. This is pure foolishness. She passed and had better grades in 3 other tougher subjects.
In US many college are not reliant on SAT anymore… but the life cycle of the child in school… this girl has a history of doing well in all levels of school… getting 1-3 in nutrition should be irrelevant in a career in engineering… I’m sure another school will accept her and ICHS will loose a outstanding alumni…
"outstanding alumni" might be RARE for your school, however thats what Immaculate has been doing for CENTURIES. I mean thats the whole reason yall are b!tching and crying over this. We WON'T claim her because she did NOT meet the standards.
I’d agree with what you said but I wouldn’t necessarily look at the u.s for what to do regarding education.. the SAT is has many issues and the thee duration system in general ..which is why so many Jamaicans and Chinese etc can easily do better than the Americans. I wouldn’t model Jamaica after America.
I understand what you're saying, and can relate. I barely passed one of my courses in a BScN nursing program in Canada. Did really well in all the other courses. With a high grade point average (GPA), I graduated with distinction.
I agree with you 100% Dion, this policy makes no sense. It's like punishing the child for doing well, how does it make sense to write a recommendation for the student to attend another institution. It my opinion that 6 form should also be a second chance for students who failed there grade 11. Schools in jamaica seems not to be interested in the children's welfare, they are more interested in the school's profile. I would encourage this mother to take this all the way to the privey council and get justice for her daughter. The Ministry of education has no backbone. This is just ridiculous!
This is a public school funded by taxpayers money! Why are they functioning like private for profit schools! You nailed it this on the head! Our education system has been failing forever now and you said it right, elitism that’s all it is!
Dionne, I agree with you 100%. The Ministry of Education needs to do better as they are the ones who should govern these schools so that our children are treated fairly no matter what. You are correct, as I have never seen a University/College put out a student because they have failed a course or have performed satisfactorily. These schools set their rules and change them over time to suit their ego. Our children have a right to be educated so why not help the child to get a better grade in the next sitting than to kick her to the curb. Shame on you Immaculate Conception High and any other institution that operates similarly.
In my opinion, the education system in Jamaica is too stressful. I heard of someone who was attending a prominent high school, and that person didn't meet the matriculation fully but because her parents were wealthy and are always contributing to the school monetary, that student was allowed to go on to 6 form- Jamaica is too much of a two tier society- the standard doesn't apply for everyone- it depends on your status in society.
Strongly agree with you on this one Dionne. What immaculate has done is utter rubbish. To think the ministry is backing such garbage is beyond me. The tail wags the dog!!!
👏🏽Ms Jackson Miller. So very well said Agree 100 💯 about not kicking out students! So many students are punished and many probably don’t meet their potential because of a lack of nurturing and development!
What a disgrace. Immaculate is too caught up in rules and not in the development of such a brilliant mind. Let her go to upper sixth and while there, let her retake the subject, I'm sure she'd pass. Simplicity.
Thats a good point...let her marticulate and re-take the subject. She is already in 6th form and must have worked hard to get there and based on her CAPE results she is still working hard.. Smh
A young person of her scholastic and academic acumen cannot be stopped. Will not be stopped. The comment about ghosting 6th form and heading straight to college resonates with me. She might one day become the president of jamaica.
I am happy you are talking about this because here in Montego Bay, I am concerned about sane thing. You made valid points. I am thankful for you speaking about this
Schools like Immaculate is about having only the brightest and gifted students to ruthlessly build a reputation of prestige. Its a colonial elitist mentality. The child can find a another school and have a more enriched balanced student experience…. This will not stop her… Many B and C students are contributing more than us A students who waste our time being doctors, lawyers and engineers instead of pioneers. We have to keep in mind that Jamaica produces some of the worlds brightest students, yet all that scholarly is yet to translate to any sort of economic, business or scientific progress… All that brightness gone to waste…
Alot of those people didn't invent anything or start a business from scratch. Studying something where the information was already presented to you is not considered bright.
But yet yall still want to go there. She can go to Denham Town High. Yall want to be "elitist" all while hating on the so-called elitist. #MathNotMathing Yall just BIG MAD you cant meet the standards. CRY ABOUT IT.
@@shellz831 what in the world is a "yall"? At least speak properly and learn to advance coherent and cohesive thoughts if you are going to argue with others' position. #fullydunce!
6th form is a waste of time, and go straight to college. My daughter passed 8 subjects, and i decided to opt her out from the 6th form and go straight to college
Not a waste of time hun. It depends on what the child is studying. For example Uwi will not accept a student who wants to become a doctor without cape subjects and also without an extra language outside of English
As a university lecturer, 6th form is an excellent investment. The number of unprepared students I deal with (do not know how to learn autonomously) because I'm where they can matriculate with only cxc.
Mrs. Jackson Miller, I agree with and appreciate your natural law reasoning approach. Immaculate Conception High School, a tax-payer funded institution, ought to dispense with these moribund and counter productive rules. *Comprehensive pedagogical reform please.*
Rules are not set in stones, must also be reviewed by merit and exceptional circumstances too. The student did not fail. The Ministry is still seeing "bright and dunce" we have not evolved.
I hope the parents take Immaculate Conception High school to court. Total unfair! They would not have done it to a rich kid with a prominent name in society. Total hypocrisy!
@prudencegowdie9655 take them to court for what......having a rule to keep a standard.........everywhere in Jamaica we believe that the rule is there yes but yuh can give a man a bly ......that's why our society and ppl are like this ......we don't like to follow rules......how is a rule of maintaining a certain standard bad i just can't understand it .....
You are right. I went to Immaculate and it’s hard for me to fathom this level of cruelty. Yes, cruelty! We should be lifting up our children and raising their self esteem as that creates success in life not a stupid mark, and a satisfactory one at that. The your lady is clearly an excellent student and leader, a healthy all round intelligent young woman. No one person excels at everything. We do best in subjects and in careers that interest us. Immaculate needs to clean up their act and recognize a good student when they see one. Take them to court and sue them.
Well said Dionne! I Completely agree with you Everyone is saying rules are rules..(dont really care and until it happens to them, then they will understand) The school is unfair and stiff in their rules.
If she moves on to another institution, becomes successful and internationally reknowned in her field, I'm sure Immaculate will take praise saying that they laid the foundation. They will deliberately exclude the fact that when she needed extra support, they booted her.
NO they would not. Immaculate have being turning out WORLD LEADERS since FOREVER. The student is the DESPERATE one here, the school does want her, yet she is begging to be there. If she is naturally "brillant" she would have no problem taking it to another school. Yall LOW achiever thinkis you are entitle to things would have not earned
All schools set their standards which are communicated to students and parents. When students are enrolled in school, it means that you are in agreement with such standards.
I went to IMAC, this is nothing new! The ministry is negligent in guaranteing fair access to education!!! This is measure is draconian! Cape allows std to sit pt 1+2 in upper six if the need to or choose to do so! So the school can opt to do its job by offering support in the subject area that the student is weak in!! It sends a negative msg to young women, that hard work is worth nothing! The expulsion is a waste of tax dollars bc its highly unlikely that anyone will transfer into upper six to occupy that space!
The issue Dionne Jackson Miller speaks about concerns the grade 4 CAPE result the student achieved which CXC claims is satisfactory. In her opinion, this student should have been promoted to grade 13 but our Colleges and Universities do not accept grade 4 results. It should be noted that most high schools will realistically align their standards with that specified by institutions of higher studies and will prepare their students based on that. ICHS is one such school. I agree that the grade 4 result will not in any way impede the path of success this student takes but her lack of regard for obeying rules will.
@@SuzAnne-kgnJMThen why not let the child matriculate to upper 6th and re-sit the exam? Its her final year in school afterall. The school has no regard for the child's social, emotional and pschological well- being if they are going to kick out a "good" student like that after all those years. Its all about statistics and keeping up appearances for them. Im not sure how obtaining that grade translates to the child's "lack of regard" for the rules when by all accounts she has been a top performing and exemplary student.....anything can happen in an exam to cause a less than desireable result! She must have been doing well academically to get into 6th form in the first place, why throw her out during her very last year in high school when she will be preparing to apply to universities which is an additional level of stress.
When sister Maureen was principal of Immaculate she would not have done that wicked act.We want back Nuns to be principals of our Catholic Schools.Education Ministry should fire that wicked principal.She’s a wicked person and should be fired. I bet she’s not a Catholic. She gives my daughter’s school a bad reputation and Immaculate Conception was one of the best schools in Jamaica.
That is so wrong I am praying that the young lady will get accepted in another School put this all behind her and get excellent grades in her final exams.I will always remember her in my prayers
Thanks for highlighting this matter Mrs. Jackson-Miller. The Ministry of education is to be blamed for these unjust decisions by educational institutions. These ridiculous burdensome policies must be removed from the school 🏫 books. Why are these educators so hardhearted? Where is commonsense and wisdom. The student's interests must be of the utmost importance when these ridiculous decisions are made. It's so unfortunate that a child should suffer this fate ftom an institution that should be helping her to develop in her education. May God help us.
I agree with you Dionne. Rules must mek sense. It’s a one strike and you are out affair. But I remember Koffee’s story. She didn’t get into 6th and that was the redirection she needs to become the Koffee we know today. But again … what Immaculate did is wrong and sense the wrong message about life. They demand a perfection which is bad for mental health. In life we will come short sometimes but we can transcend them. The school should be about the business of getting these messages out.
Hi Dionne.. I believe the parents of that child should file a law suit against the school.. I am extremely shocked and disappointed that the ministry of education did not demand the school to reinstate the child.
@@kingirie9892 They could accuse the school of abuse. I am sure that by tort law, the school could be seen as trying to inhibit the development of a capable student. The only limitation would be the potential cost of the case.
@kevindaley5117 Possible that it would be costly in terms of time and money, but chances are they would settle out of court. The school really has a bad reputation, specifically with its high-handedness in regard to discipline.
Hhhmmnn.. if we lower the bar for one, we will have to do so for all? Even if the standards are revised and, as such, lowered giving this candidate a chance of upper 6th, what will happen in the case of a similar situation in the future. What? do we lower the standards again to prevent a public outcry? How would pass students who have not met the standard respond to this? Can a case of discrimination of some type or favouritism be brought against the school and subsequently the Ministry? Im no legal expert, but I'm just thinking along these lines.
@@zureetv9375 complain too much. You like a lower standard. I say increase the standard and stick to the rules. In USA I could not get into a specialized program in High school unless I had at least an 85 average. A 84.9 average would not do it. That’s why Jamaica has so much indiscipline. No one wants standard just give me a bly.
@kingirie9892 could they have used discretion? Yeah sure.. but they are not obligated to... Its harsh.. Its sad.. and may even send her on a downward spiral mentally or she may recover and kill it at university.. but if you went in with both eyes open.. can't kill them...
While I'm all for the the rules, however, I do believe this rule is absolutely too stringent & need to be tweaked. One Satisfactory Grade should not prevent a active deserved student from advancing.There has to some concessions in certain cases, when ONLY one grade is in question, considering that this is her Final Year! There need to be more flexibility!
What will the ministry of education doing about this ? Could this be done to a student whose name is attached to the wealthy ? This is a stupid rule and works against student progress .
Only disruption should be qualified to kick a child from out of school. But I'm going to pray for this girl child, that she will be accepted into another schools upper six. Leave school and continue to do well in life and never tell a soul that she had ever entered the premises of Immaculate conception school. Just forget about them. I pray that the Almighty God will guide her mind and protect her from any harm to her self esteem. LET EXCELLENCE CONTINUE TO BE HER PORTION IN LIKE Amen!
Can't agree on this one Dionne! Hair and grades are vastly different considerations. Another student who has aspirations of attending Immaculate and has met the mark shouldn't be denied the opportunity because of a favour to another who didn't.
@@dionnejacksonmiller34 Dionne I sense you like indiscipline and you do not favor rules. As soon as rules set it is discriminatory. If you join the military there are rules. Men hair has to be shaved. You have to set the foundation in schools and at an early age. Take it or leave it and stop promoting slackness.
Utter Rubbish. Dionne, when you took your Bar exams wasn't there a cut-off score? Argument Done! Perhaps this will be the key that turns this young lady's future into all excellent endeavours! Immaculate might not be the place for her! One can be kicked out of college for other reasons, even if passing!
Yes Dion they are wrong very very wrong I hope the child parents sue for emotional damage to their child. This is the most ridiculous situation it seem personal and spiteful. Very sad.
I BET A MILLION DOLLARS IF THAT CHILD'S LAST NAME WAS ISSA, ZACCA, MAHFOOD OR MATALON WE WOULD NOT BE HAVING THIS DISCUSSION.
I went to ICHS. I wondered if anything has changed over those umpteen years. Guess not much.
ABSOLUTELY 💯
Exactly, the slave master mindset is very much in evidence 🤮.
Dunce the kid comes from a rich family
@@dextorwhite2155what is "rich" kmt.
My daughter obtained 10 cxc in the last sitting. She only received 1 grade 3 in Mathematics. She was denied entry to sixth form at Holy Childhood. They wanted her to have either grade 1 or 2 in Mathematics.
I had to encourage my child and redirect her on another path to get to her future goal.
Some of these schools are messing with our students mentally. As parents we have to support our children and encourage them to be resilient.
Whoa that is so wrong . If she passed all the others and didn't get the grade in only one, whoa that's terrible so glad we're at a place where we don't get penalised for one subject or even two. Why not let her retake that subject terrible
@shellyannrounce2139 No wonder our education system is so pop down and backward. We are losing our best teachers and students to overseas. Those old dinosaurs in our school system and in the Ministry of Education need to go and let young minds with fresh ideas take over.
I honestly think that the Ministry of Education is operating like someone with a mental disorder undetected. How can you give absolute power to people and don't think that absolute power will corrupt absolutely. It is a sad day in our nation when we allow so-called rules to tarnish the reputation of our children's future. Dionne it is happening everywhere in our schools. Administrators make some 'crazy' rules that do not advance our children's development. They show nothing short of prejudice, sabotage and injustice. Too much false pride is seen in the manner these Administrators operate and what is sad is that the MOEY empowers them to make these decisions that impact our children negatively. A case in point is when a traditional high school gives a child a Conduct Mark because she wore a natural hairstyle that the school deemed a violation of their so- called image.😢 Where do we go for help. We should all take to the streets and demand justice for our children, no wonder we are losing them to overseas opportunities. We make it too difficult for them to grow in their own country. Other countries treat their children with love and respect. Teaching/learning experience is so easy and free. We are burdening our bright young minds and if we continue sooner or later we will suffer as a result. Something needs to be done to prevent an occurrence.
the time she spent doing so much subjects, she could have spent it mastering Mathematics, which is a compulsory subject.
@@ClaudDennisDid you get a grade 1 or 2 in CXC Mathematics? 🤔
My son while attending KC got 2 grade ones math and English 4 grades 2 in the sciences and 4 grades 3 in other subjects and was told that they cannot offer him a space to do the sciences in sixth form. He was placed in a lesser re-known school and did exceptionally good in both lower and upper six. He went on to utech and did chemical engineering and graduated with upper second class honors. Sometimes things happen to push our children forward
Good for him!
This is exactly the reason why standards exist. Adversity creates character and humility and pushes our kids to be better persons in society. If you want a spot, you have to keep performing to the standard. We can not keep letting things slide. We are no longer able to talk to our kids anymore as random strangers who see them doing something wrong.
Idiotic
You miss the point... shools must cater for students, not only there repetition.@@robkennedy5906
@@robkennedy5906 bull lol
Sad part is...some High Schools pressure their students so much and ALL a we end up in the same classes at University(nationally and internationally) including those from the not so top high schools...all a we end up inna the one pot!
Exactly! You couldn't have said it better.
@@lovelylady4938and the same jobs, if we can find any
Talk true
I realised this when I started UNI years ago, no matter the high school, evening class, or weh else u guh
One pot
True.
I left ICHS 21 years ago. If this was happening at my time, the school would have kicked out a future Ivy-League-trained doctor, a PhD scholar, and I’m sure countless other high-performing members in society, who are now arguably leaders in their respective fields. This is a stupid rule that goes against what Immaculate should be about - cultivating well-rounded minds with strong character and talent. Not just grade machines. How shallow! They just effectively disposed of years worth of social capital invested in who I am sure is a fine young lady, over a grade.
Grade machine is spot on indeed. That's all schools like Imac cares about now. It's no longer about their development of students. They must come ready made and the school then uses their performance to boost its image and ranking.
Same! Happened to me .. I ended up going to Wolmers 6th form! And honestly it was amazing .. but I was crushed during that experience
Classism at it's best! This would have taken place If her last name was Matalon, Vaz, Hanna or Issa.
I pulled out my csec and cape cards…I would have been out too even though I passed all my subjects.
@@kerryanncoaching I agree with you fully. She was not even given the opportunity to redeem herself. In college they will put you on academic probation before expulsion. It is not about where you start but where you finish in life.
The decision to bar the student from matriculating to upper six at Immaculate Conception High due to one satisfactory grade reflects an elitist culture. It prioritizes academic perfection, marginalizes diverse talents, and reinforces social hierarchies. The school seems focused on maintaining its prestige rather than supporting students' growth, limiting opportunities for those who may need more academic support. This approach perpetuates inequality and intensifies pressure on students to meet unrealistic standards.
Well said!
Well said
Absolutely!
🎯🎯🎯🎯. Elitism at the highest level and something tells me she is not from the upper echelons of Jamaican society. Just a thought 🤔
Well said!
If that student is not mentally strong, the school and ministry are set to break her Spirit
Exactly 🤔☹make it make sense.
These rules only benefit the school. They like to boast how many 1s they got at CAPE. In this case they will have to report that at least one student got a grade 4 (which is what they were trying to avoid by setting this rule) so they punish her. It's all about the school's image
I agree 💯
that is so true
They kicked out an aspiring engineer because of....*checks notes* ... a cooking class??!!!
Agreed. This is next level doltishness.
My thoughts exactly!!!
Agreed. I’m trying to figure out why she even took a cooking class?!!! Was this required. This is truly foolishness.
My point exactly. She doesn't need the subject
My sentiments exactly
“Rules must make sense”. Thank you Dionne.
So glad you started UA-cam Dionne! Enjoy your quality journalism standards and fearless commentary. I was getting a bit concerned for a while when 90% of Jamaican content on UA-cam was "mix-up" and gossiping vloggers 😂😂😂
Thank you so much!
When one door is closed, another is opened.
...many more is open!
I'm a Primary School teacher and I endorse every word you've said. I have seen and experienced situations like this. Thank you for the exposure. Nothing to do with standards which benefit students only the administrators. It's all about collecting data to compile records.
The ministry of education is failing the students. My opinion.
This is solely on the SCHOOL THAT DIRECTLY INVOLVE, THIS IS NOT A DOING OF THE MINISTRY OF EDUCATION, get a brain to think sensibly and not one politically motivated. MY OPINION.
I agree. If the MOE had balls all they'd do is to instruct ICHS to accept this student and the issue would be resolved. The fact that the principal can come out and speak in the strident way she has, shows that she has no regard for what anyone else outside of the school admin has to say.
Total agreement @@FOOTBALLCHATYC
Well said@@FOOTBALLCHATYC
Big time.
Mrs Reynolds doesn't deserve the post of headmistress of that school she is a cruel taskmaster. Every school she goes to, she leaves her mark. From St. George's, to Mt. Alverna High and now to Immaculate. She is not only cruel to her students but to her staff as well. She has no heart.
Staff been there that not well and she not helping them, students there that not well she nuh help only when things get out of hand she rush in for a grand spectacle. HSA not as involved because of her. She only care about image and how things present themselves. She is cruel, wicked, terrible!!
Moved my daughter to Ardenne after 9th grade. best decision ever. Immaculate was a elitist nightmare and there is no communication and they always made us feel that we were so lucky to be there and very condescending principal. On the plus side you get all the help you need if your first name is Doctor. All hype. My daughter is currently is in UWI doing very well. Don't worry about court dear parent...move her. She already has her cape and she will get her degree regardless. And future parents don't be brainwashed by the lure of Immaculate and Campion.
All d one campion she me Dem all too well...n a dere mi daughter av fi r first choice eno mi beg God she no pass fi deh cuz a bay elite Dem deal wid n my money no tun up
@@KarenRicketts😂😂😂😂a mi son first choice to seems like me want to reconsider
Well said! Agree, elitist!!!!
@@sureimprovemt lol I wish a cuda go bk fi d pesa paper weh mi sen eeen n change it😂
Oh wow! 😥
This must be devastating for the promising young leader and her mom. Continue to pursue your passion and never quit. So disappointed in the decision of the principal. Standards are lower many times to accommodate those of the upper class.
Ministry of Education is spineless.
No backbones
1:54 jelly back😂😂😂😂
As usual
Exactly.
If this had happened to one of rich ppl's children, they would not even say a thing.
Well said Ms. Jackson. High schools need to have the children's interest a priority.
No thought on the psychological impact... Its her last year of high school... Too many emotionally broken youths.
I pray this child is STRONG and I pray the principal and ministry of education live to regret their actions.
Stay strong young lady❤
The moment a child get the acceptance for lower 6 there should be no reason for that child not to be barred from upper 6
Immaculate need to revised that rule my heart goes out for that young girl
Exactly! It’s an entire program, just like high school, it’s a program!
😂😂
My heart is broken, speechless. So happy you brought light to this!
Sadly though...this is not the only school that would do this claiming they have to maintain standards. So high school in Jamaica is not about facilitating advancement of your child to become all they can be...it is about maintaining a self imposed image of academic prowess on the purse of tax payers. Education continues to fail our youth with this elitist construct. We clearly haven't noticed where that has put us.
She can go to Denham town high, isnt that a school as well???
I agree we need standards, but those standards must be reasonably, rational and just. You made an excellent point Ms. Jackson-Miller. I suspect there is another factor, possibly victimization of some sort due to something non-academic.
I honestly think there is some personal grievance between parents and school that is more adversely affecting student.. because I struggle to believe what is reported would cause such drastic action by that principal..Hope the young lady in question realize she has not failed and what happened was just a bump in the road that should only be used as motivation to chart even a brighter course, hence putting her detractors to shame.. more power to the young lady and shame on the ministry of education..
I do agree with you 100%, Dionne.
They are missing it!
A grade 4 is satisfactory.
Are we here to empower our children or set a trap for them to fail?
Thank you for bringing this to the forefront. I hope this will push her into her Divine Destiny!!!
I agree with you Ms. Jackson. This happens as a result of people at the MOE being allowed to turn a blind eye to biased attitudes of many school administrators and their boards over many years. Too many parents are unconcerned about this nonsense. When I was in high school, one of our classmates got into a fight with another student who happened to be the son of someone who worked at the school. Our principal, in his wisdom decided to suspend our batchmate but not the other student. We basically walked out of class until he was brought back. Many of us who still keep in touch, would do it all over again.😮😮
This is completely ludicrous. This is an upper school student who clearly has done well...The funny thing is once you reach university and graduate level a person's result at cxc and cape is irrelevant noone asks about that..Bwoy the plantation mentality is alive and well.Bwoy even when our young people that we complain so much about are trying in Jamaica I find Administrators oftentimes times tear them down. In life even if there are rules, there ia a thing called assess on a case by case basis smh..I wish that child the very best and nothing less than excellence as she has been doing.
Excellent commentary Dionne
Well said Dion👍..... What is called the MINISTRY of EDUCATION is the REAL FAULT here....No TAXPAYER -FUNDED school should have the power to make a silly elitist rule like that....but then again the said Ministry of Education does the same in many instances.
Jamaica's education system is modelled off the PLANTATION SYSTEM....it has not changed much since Emancipation and so -called independence!
Our education system continue to fail our youths.
Well said Dionne.
Thank you for illuminating this issue. I totally agree with your position. "Rules must be fair and mek sense". This was an egregious and excessive decision and action by the school. The MOE continues to allow the victimization of students. Does the MOE take the same approach with all schools or just the so called elite schools? Simple answer is no because many students would have to leave school at lower six if that were the case. A double standard is being applied here because of the institution in question.
@@delta_tango_dt You’re not making any sense at all..wheel and come again!
If the rules dem “don’t make no sense” then WHY parents crawl and claw to get their kids into these schools? Everyone want dem kids to go top a top school but them not ready for the level of work that these schools require! U want big name school but don’t want work to maintain it?? Crazy
The child dont like to cook. Who puts any weight in food and nutrition anyways?????? Seems there are other things happening behind the scenes 😢😢
Exactly
@@DailySippings dis mi a seh food n nutrition like wtf!!!
Knowing Immaculate that could be a factor too
Exactly. That’s the subject that would have the least bearing on her future career success compared to computer science etc. This is pure foolishness. She passed and had better grades in 3 other tougher subjects.
Laffable
Time for Jamaica to stop classifying students as bright & dunce &give them opportunities by creating academic pathways
In US many college are not reliant on SAT anymore… but the life cycle of the child in school… this girl has a history of doing well in all levels of school… getting 1-3 in nutrition should be irrelevant in a career in engineering… I’m sure another school will accept her and ICHS will loose a outstanding alumni…
"outstanding alumni" might be RARE for your school, however thats what Immaculate has been doing for CENTURIES. I mean thats the whole reason yall are b!tching and crying over this. We WON'T claim her because she did NOT meet the standards.
I’d agree with what you said but I wouldn’t necessarily look at the u.s for what to do regarding education.. the SAT is has many issues and the thee duration system in general ..which is why so many Jamaicans and Chinese etc can easily do better than the Americans. I wouldn’t model Jamaica after America.
Manners and respect to you "Mrs. Jackson Miller" for shedding more light on this matter.
This analysis COMPLETELY shifted my thinking and viewpoint on this particular news item. Thank you
Thanks for watching!!!
i failed 1 out of 6 courses year 1 of university ended on Dean's honour list for every year after that's all I have to say
I understand what you're saying, and can relate. I barely passed one of my courses in a BScN nursing program in Canada. Did really well in all the other courses. With a high grade point average (GPA), I graduated with distinction.
Well said Dionne! I Completely agree with you
Sister Angella would never allow this to happen...
Not true. The 3 heads kept their standards
@@Cupcake-gs2ym That's nonsense, I was there for 7 years and this would not happen under Sister Mary Catherine
Definitely not under Sister Mary Catherine @@regularity2556
Purpose this served was to put down the child & hurt her Medz 🤦♂️
Dione , children are being mared and scared and we need to redo all these rules and policies. Very disappointing, but not surprised
IRONY: People saying that “rules are rules”, but they are actually implementing rules that violate the LAW. The nations highest rule!
I agree with you 100% Dion, this policy makes no sense. It's like punishing the child for doing well, how does it make sense to write a recommendation for the student to attend another institution. It my opinion that 6 form should also be a second chance for students who failed there grade 11. Schools in jamaica seems not to be interested in the children's welfare, they are more interested in the school's profile. I would encourage this mother to take this all the way to the privey council and get justice for her daughter. The Ministry of education has no backbone. This is just ridiculous!
This is a public school funded by taxpayers money! Why are they functioning like private for profit schools! You nailed it this on the head! Our education system has been failing forever now and you said it right, elitism that’s all it is!
We have been graduating students from these so-called best and the brightest schools and yet Jamaica remains a third world economy.
Blame the government. Don’t you see a brain drain happening. People are always leaving for overseas jobs.
I went to St. Andrew High. We all migrate dear. That's the sad reality.
Because after the top 5 schools there is significant fall off academically. Government needs to bring the others up to par
@@Alexandria-hq1uyThe people from these schools make up the government.😂😂😂😂😂
Mama mia whoa
THAT IS DISGRACEFUL AND DISTASTEFUL.
That's it right there. Rules need to be fair and reasonable.
Dionne, I agree with you 100%. The Ministry of Education needs to do better as they are the ones who should govern these schools so that our children are treated fairly no matter what. You are correct, as I have never seen a University/College put out a student because they have failed a course or have performed satisfactorily. These schools set their rules and change them over time to suit their ego. Our children have a right to be educated so why not help the child to get a better grade in the next sitting than to kick her to the curb. Shame on you Immaculate Conception High and any other institution that operates similarly.
In my opinion, the education system in Jamaica is too stressful. I heard of someone who was attending a prominent high school, and that person didn't meet the matriculation fully but because her parents were wealthy and are always contributing to the school monetary, that student was allowed to go on to 6 form- Jamaica is too much of a two tier society- the standard doesn't apply for everyone- it depends on your status in society.
excellent piece lady D
Strongly agree with you on this one Dionne. What immaculate has done is utter rubbish. To think the ministry is backing such garbage is beyond me. The tail wags the dog!!!
I believe that if Sr. Angella was still principal this decision would not have been made.
👏🏽Ms Jackson Miller. So very well said
Agree 100 💯 about not kicking out students!
So many students are punished and many probably don’t meet their potential because of a lack of nurturing and development!
Listen! I could not have said it better. You have echoed my exact sentiments. The decision is rubbish.
What a disgrace. Immaculate is too caught up in rules and not in the development of such a brilliant mind. Let her go to upper sixth and while there, let her retake the subject, I'm sure she'd pass. Simplicity.
Classism and eliteism at ICHS 😮
Thats a good point...let her marticulate and re-take the subject. She is already in 6th form and must have worked hard to get there and based on her CAPE results she is still working hard.. Smh
Best comment. 👌
She didn't even fail. That's the funny part.
A young person of her scholastic and academic acumen cannot be stopped. Will not be stopped. The comment about ghosting 6th form and heading straight to college resonates with me. She might one day become the president of jamaica.
Not that it takes much to become a president these days, anyway...!😢
I am happy you are talking about this because here in Montego Bay, I am
concerned about sane thing.
You made valid points. I am thankful for you speaking about this
Schools like Immaculate is about having only the brightest and gifted students to ruthlessly build a reputation of prestige. Its a colonial elitist mentality. The child can find a another school and have a more enriched balanced student experience…. This will not stop her… Many B and C students are contributing more than us A students who waste our time being doctors, lawyers and engineers instead of pioneers.
We have to keep in mind that Jamaica produces some of the worlds brightest students, yet all that scholarly is yet to translate to any sort of economic, business or scientific progress… All that brightness gone to waste…
Excellent points!
Alot of those people didn't invent anything or start a business from scratch. Studying something where the information was already presented to you is not considered bright.
But yet yall still want to go there. She can go to Denham Town High. Yall want to be "elitist" all while hating on the so-called elitist. #MathNotMathing
Yall just BIG MAD you cant meet the standards. CRY ABOUT IT.
So true the colonial Backra master mentality
@@shellz831 what in the world is a "yall"? At least speak properly and learn to advance coherent and cohesive thoughts if you are going to argue with others' position. #fullydunce!
You are absolutely right Dionne
6th form is a waste of time, and go straight to college. My daughter passed 8 subjects, and i decided to opt her out from the 6th form and go straight to college
Same here. Pulled mine from lower six and sent her to Cuba. Now 3rd year medical student. Wish more of us abandoned this 6th form story.
Not a waste of time hun. It depends on what the child is studying. For example Uwi will not accept a student who wants to become a doctor without cape subjects and also without an extra language outside of English
As a university lecturer, 6th form is an excellent investment. The number of unprepared students I deal with (do not know how to learn autonomously) because I'm where they can matriculate with only cxc.
@BeautifulEarthJa well u must be getting the ones from the daycare high schools because my daughter is going great, getting A's and B's.
It is a waste of time and money robbery by these school.
I am so glad u brought this to the publics attention
Thank you for highlighting this Mrs Jackson Miller
Mrs. Jackson Miller, I agree with and appreciate your natural law reasoning approach. Immaculate Conception High School, a tax-payer funded institution, ought to dispense with these moribund and counter productive rules.
*Comprehensive pedagogical reform please.*
I agree with your sentiments wholeheartedly.
Rules are not set in stones, must also be reviewed by merit and exceptional circumstances too. The student did not fail. The Ministry is still seeing "bright and dunce" we have not evolved.
💯 % agree!
I hope the parents take Immaculate Conception High school to court. Total unfair! They would not have done it to a rich kid with a prominent name in society. Total hypocrisy!
@prudencegowdie9655 take them to court for what......having a rule to keep a standard.........everywhere in Jamaica we believe that the rule is there yes but yuh can give a man a bly ......that's why our society and ppl are like this ......we don't like to follow rules......how is a rule of maintaining a certain standard bad i just can't understand it .....
They can't the standard is set my the school
She’s a rich kid 🥲
@@Kelsemajso where does the rule apply to this case? Not like she was failing?
@joel60943 the rule is/was that you have to be maintaining a certain grade/pass/standard in order to continue in the program
I agree with all your points Lady Dianne. Shame on the ministry.
This is a public school, not a private school. Her parents her community should protest.
Well said Dionne
I TOTALLY AGREE WITH MS, D. WELL SAID
You are right.
I went to Immaculate and it’s hard for me to fathom this level of cruelty. Yes, cruelty!
We should be lifting up our children and raising their self esteem as that creates success in life not a stupid mark, and a satisfactory one at that.
The your lady is clearly an excellent student and leader, a healthy all round intelligent young woman.
No one person excels at everything. We do best in subjects and in careers that interest us.
Immaculate needs to clean up their act and recognize a good student when they see one. Take them to court and sue them.
You are well on point here DJM. This is a microcosm of the disservice meted out perpetually to our students by the education system in Jamaica
Well said Dionne! I Completely agree with you
Everyone is saying rules are rules..(dont really care and until it happens to them, then they will understand)
The school is unfair and stiff in their rules.
Mercy and grace should prevail so the student may go forward with her education...😊
If she moves on to another institution, becomes successful and internationally reknowned in her field, I'm sure Immaculate will take praise saying that they laid the foundation. They will deliberately exclude the fact that when she needed extra support, they booted her.
NO they would not. Immaculate have being turning out WORLD LEADERS since FOREVER. The student is the DESPERATE one here, the school does want her, yet she is begging to be there. If she is naturally "brillant" she would have no problem taking it to another school. Yall LOW achiever thinkis you are entitle to things would have not earned
Shame shame shame shame shame on the ministry of education and the principal 😮
All schools set their standards which are communicated to students and parents. When students are enrolled in school, it means that you are in agreement with such standards.
I went to IMAC, this is nothing new! The ministry is negligent in guaranteing fair access to education!!!
This is measure is draconian!
Cape allows std to sit pt 1+2 in upper six if the need to or choose to do so! So the school can opt to do its job by offering support in the subject area that the student is weak in!!
It sends a negative msg to young women, that hard work is worth nothing!
The expulsion is a waste of tax dollars bc its highly unlikely that anyone will transfer into upper six to occupy that space!
THANK YOU DIAN
The issue Dionne Jackson Miller speaks about concerns the grade 4 CAPE result the student achieved which CXC claims is satisfactory. In her opinion, this student should have been promoted to grade 13 but our Colleges and Universities do not accept grade 4 results. It should be noted that most high schools will realistically align their standards with that specified by institutions of higher studies and will prepare their students based on that. ICHS is one such school. I agree that the grade 4 result will not in any way impede the path of success this student takes but her lack of regard for obeying rules will.
@@SuzAnne-kgnJMThen why not let the child matriculate to upper 6th and re-sit the exam? Its her final year in school afterall. The school has no regard for the child's social, emotional and pschological well- being if they are going to kick out a "good" student like that after all those years. Its all about statistics and keeping up appearances for them. Im not sure how obtaining that grade translates to the child's "lack of regard" for the rules when by all accounts she has been a top performing and exemplary student.....anything can happen in an exam to cause a less than desireable result! She must have been doing well academically to get into 6th form in the first place, why throw her out during her very last year in high school when she will be preparing to apply to universities which is an additional level of stress.
'Rules must make sense'. Thanks for highlighting this. Great job Dionne.
When sister Maureen was principal of Immaculate she would not have done that wicked act.We want back Nuns to be principals of our Catholic Schools.Education Ministry should fire that wicked principal.She’s a wicked person and should be fired. I bet she’s not a Catholic. She gives my daughter’s school a bad reputation and Immaculate Conception was one of the best schools in Jamaica.
That is so wrong I am praying that the young lady will get accepted in another School put this all behind her and get excellent grades in her final exams.I will always remember her in my prayers
Thanks for highlighting this matter Mrs. Jackson-Miller. The Ministry of education is to be blamed for these unjust decisions by educational institutions. These ridiculous burdensome policies must be removed from the school 🏫 books.
Why are these educators so hardhearted? Where is commonsense and wisdom. The student's interests must be of the utmost importance when these ridiculous decisions are made.
It's so unfortunate that a child should suffer this fate ftom an institution that should be helping her to develop in her education. May God help us.
RUBBISH
I agree with you Dionne. Rules must mek sense. It’s a one strike and you are out affair. But I remember Koffee’s story. She didn’t get into 6th and that was the redirection she needs to become the Koffee we know today. But again … what Immaculate did is wrong and sense the wrong message about life. They demand a perfection which is bad for mental health. In life we will come short sometimes but we can transcend them. The school should be about the business of getting these messages out.
Agree with you more than 100% Dionne,. this student will be scarred.
Hi Dionne.. I believe the parents of that child should file a law suit against the school.. I am extremely shocked and disappointed that the ministry of education did not demand the school to reinstate the child.
@@ainsleystewart7848 On what basis they don't have a case
@@kingirie9892
They could accuse the school of abuse. I am sure that by tort law, the school could be seen as trying to inhibit the development of a capable student. The only limitation would be the potential cost of the case.
@@Rockjamify would take too long to fight that through court unfortunately. I am disappointed in Immaculate.
@kevindaley5117
Possible that it would be costly in terms of time and money, but chances are they would settle out of court. The school really has a bad reputation, specifically with its high-handedness in regard to discipline.
Hhhmmnn.. if we lower the bar for one, we will have to do so for all? Even if the standards are revised and, as such, lowered giving this candidate a chance of upper 6th, what will happen in the case of a similar situation in the future. What? do we lower the standards again to prevent a public outcry? How would pass students who have not met the standard respond to this? Can a case of discrimination of some type or favouritism be brought against the school and subsequently the Ministry? Im no legal expert, but I'm just thinking along these lines.
🎯🎯🎯
This!
Immaculate fi lif up. They are more than wrong, this is not good for the child mental health. Situation like this cause people pickny fi guh astray.
2:46 Thats the school' s standard and she didnt meet it , simply move to another Six form program
You are missing the point...the standard is discriminatory and needs to be changed. The child did not fail, she got a satisfactory mark.
You are missing the point...the standard is discriminatory and needs to be changed. The child did not fail, she got a satisfactory mark.
@@zureetv9375 complain too much. You like a lower standard. I say increase the standard and stick to the rules. In USA I could not get into a specialized program in High school unless I had at least an 85 average. A 84.9 average would not do it. That’s why Jamaica has so much indiscipline. No one wants standard just give me a bly.
Every school has a standard they consider as satisfactory.. they both knew..
@kingirie9892 could they have used discretion? Yeah sure.. but they are not obligated to... Its harsh.. Its sad.. and may even send her on a downward spiral mentally or she may recover and kill it at university.. but if you went in with both eyes open.. can't kill them...
Wicked, this was very wicked. Not just the school's response to the situation but, The existence of such a rule in the first place.
While I'm all for the the rules, however, I do believe this rule is absolutely too stringent & need to be tweaked. One Satisfactory Grade should not prevent a active deserved student from advancing.There has to some concessions in certain cases, when ONLY one grade is in question, considering that this is her Final Year! There need to be more flexibility!
What will the ministry of education doing about this ? Could this be done to a student whose name is attached to the wealthy ? This is a stupid rule and works against student progress .
Only disruption should be qualified to kick a child from out of school. But I'm going to pray for this girl child, that she will be accepted into another schools upper six. Leave school and continue to do well in life and never tell a soul that she had ever entered the premises of Immaculate conception school. Just forget about them. I pray that the Almighty God will guide her mind and protect her from any harm to her self esteem. LET EXCELLENCE CONTINUE TO BE HER PORTION IN LIKE Amen!
They are trying to keep the standards high but unfortunately out of reach of students who are doing well in other areas.Not fair Immaculate !
Can't agree on this one Dionne! Hair and grades are vastly different considerations. Another student who has aspirations of attending Immaculate and has met the mark shouldn't be denied the opportunity because of a favour to another who didn't.
Thanks for watching and commenting. I mentioned the hair issue as another example of irrational rules that the Ministry has allowed schools to impose.
Not seeing how the school standard or the criteria are irrational. What i find irrational is the responses against the schools position on the matter.
@@dionnejacksonmiller34 Dionne I sense you like indiscipline and you do not favor rules. As soon as rules set it is discriminatory. If you join the military there are rules. Men hair has to be shaved. You have to set the foundation in schools and at an early age. Take it or leave it and stop promoting slackness.
Utter Rubbish. Dionne, when you took your Bar exams wasn't there a cut-off score? Argument Done!
Perhaps this will be the key that turns this young lady's future into all excellent endeavours! Immaculate might not be the place for her!
One can be kicked out of college for other reasons, even if passing!
Yes Dion they are wrong very very wrong I hope the child parents sue for emotional damage to their child. This is the most ridiculous situation it seem personal and spiteful. Very sad.