There is a small mistake in a quote from the book, for which I must apologize. At 7:27 the original quote from the preface is "...it will not make the innocent vicious, or transform the pastime player into a professional; or make the fool wise, or curtail the annual crop of suckers; but whatever the result may be, if it sells it will accomplish the primary motive of the author, as he needs the money"
One of the greatest stories in magic. The great advantages of the no internet times, that people needed to dedicate time hunting for this and even at this time we don't know for sure the real author. Great video and looking forward for the next video.
This is true, I can't even imagine how much work was put into this investigation. One had to really think a lot and be strategic because without Google, every single "search" took weeks if not months.
Loving the Erdnase channel and the Erdnase hunt series. I believe Glenn Bishop's theory is the most accurate. We keep assuming he's a card cheat when all the magic tricks in the book are explained well (better than the second deal even) and have illustrations. I also think he was a card magician. Possible reasons he did not get enough recognition include no media, no social media channels, no TV deals existed back then, he may not have cared about being famous, his wife may have kept nagging him to get a "real" job, his lack of communication skills etc. Even photographs were very rare back in 1902. If your charisma failed you, the only other option or media you would have back then would be becoming an author.
Awesome as always sir! I know is hard to make these vids because they're packed with wonderful information, and we appreciate them a lot. Always looking forward for the next one!
Fascinating! I love history! I'm passionate to a number of subjects, space exploration, circus and sideshow, culinary arts and Asian cuisines Japanese martial arts,, samurai and ninja, movies and original full-sheet film posters... I have many interests and hobbies. Becuase I'm a magician of 25 years, I'm particularly fond of magic history! I absolutely love historic magic & magicians collections and museums. Antique props are one of the neatest things to me . Great videos, one of my absolute favorite UA-cam channels!
Hey Man, you have an incredible channel. All your investigations are pure gold which Let us be educated in a way no other channel could do. We owe you lots.
I knew Jay Marshall very well, Jay and my dad were very close friends for many years. I talked with Jay about this and he told me that this story is interesting, but does not confirm that Erdnase name was Andrews. His reasoning, was that people don't remember who magicians are after they perform their acts. Jay said to me, all it is is gossip about magic.
Hey, I was just reading Expert At the Card Table since I just got it, and I noticed that many times already, the author refers to himself as “we.” For example, when teaching the SWE shift, he says “we have not dubbed the following process with our initials...” so is it maybe possible that multiple people wrote this book? Just a thought
You are right, this "royal we" is definitely a peculiarity of Erdnase style of writing. And it drew the attention of some researches. I believe there are theories of multiple authors or someone helping him to write this book. However, as far as I am aware, none of those has become "mainstream" theories.
It is questionable that ED Pratt even met Erdnase. Magicians lie for attention quite often And the Pratt story was blown out of perportion and all of it went into the Busby book, The man who was Erdanse, which is just theory and not fact. And the book was not even close to a "best seller" or the Bible of card work or magic. It is "one book" out of thousands of card books. And thousands of card magic tricks. The only one that "Met" Erdnase was MD Smith and he could not remember who Erdnase was. Smith was paid by check the story goes, on a new Back account that was in Chicago. When Martin Gardner "Who I knew" questioned smith, if he was Andrews he said he could not remember.
Part two... There is no proof that ES Andrews was SW Erdnase real name. This information came about when the house of Drane's owner said it was. The house of Drane published the book apparently after the first run of books was done. Or Almost done. And there is "no Proof" that Erdnase was a card cheat. No one, including MD Smith ever saw Erdnase playing cards, or card cheating at the card table. Plus, card cheats do not publish secrets of how to cheat at cards. The only one that did was Walter Scott. Who wrote up "Phantom of the card table" however he was a Vaudeville Guitar player in a Hawaiian group. And he performed his Punch work for magicians, which for card cheats, who thought magicians were worthless idiots, doesn't make him likely to be a card cheat.
The only thing I found interesting is that you have no idea who Erdanse was. There are several things about the book that explains the theory of what kind of person Erdanse was. All I have seen so far, is a lot of misinformation.
I am sorry that you feel this way. This video was nothing more than my humble attempt to give a very short introduction to the Erdnase problem and to present just one single theory: the one about the MFA which was developed by Gardner, Busby and Whaley in "The Man Who Was Erdnase". I am absolutely aware of the fact that there are problems with this theory and that some facts can be put under doubt (e.g. Pratt's recollections). However, I wanted to present a consistent story, therefore I did not mention these problems during the video and only mentioned that there are other theories in the beginning and at the very end of the video. I talk about other theories and arguments against this theory, as well as about Erdnase's profile in my other two videos on Erdnase that were published on this channel. I have read your other comments with great interest. Thank you so much for taking the time to share some of your knowledge about Erdnase.
@@ArtofImpossible I think you may have missed the point, "The Man Who was Erdnase Busby book is "Theory" and not fact. And in my opinion should be presented as "theory". The book was also not a popular book in Erdnase time when he published it. That is probably the House of Drane was able to publish it. The owner apparently got the copyright and Erdnase's remaining books, and met Erdnase at that time. But that could be story, The House of Drane was a wholesale company that sold magic props, including many that My Father stocked in his two magic shops when he was alive. Jay Marshall also stocked Magic INC with House of Drane products.
@@ArtofImpossible Also Martin Gardner was not a professional magician, he was a magic club hobby magician, and very, very egotistical. He wrote books for "magic hobby club magicians". The only two magicians that I remember he put up with telling him that his "Theory" of who Erdnase was - was "Theory and not fact - was Jay Marshall and my dad. My dad was a heavy student of Erdnase and used many of the Erdnase moves in his card work. However young magicians, it was better not to question Martins "Theory's" about Erdnase.
@@ArtofImpossible In my opinion the only "Fact" is that there was a book written and published by SW Erdnase Called Expert at the card table. However, even the extra comments that he or she wrote in the book about playing cards in a saloon, and that the back palm of a single card got him or her out of a bad situation, that could have involved card cheating. Could be the author adding story to add creditability to his or her published work, and could be fiction.
@@ArtofImpossible Also, Dai Vernon was not the only person that read and studied Erdnase in his time, I met Dai Vernon. Dai Vernon showed me his routine for Three card monte. I never heard Dai say or write that Erdnase ever said that Erdnase was a card cheat. Dai said to me, and wrote many, times that card cheats and cheaters were very secret People. And it took him a long time often for Vernon to get them to share secrets. In my opinion it really does not sound likely that a card cheat, that made a living cheating would write a book and try to sell it, exposing how he cheated and made his living. However a magician, card enthusiast would publish one.
![The Erdnase Hunt [PART 2]. The man behind "The Expert at the Card Table".](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/iCM0tx3r-Fs/mqdefault.jpg)
![The Erdnase Hunt [PART 2]. The man behind "The Expert at the Card Table".](/img/tr.png)
![The Erdnase Hunt [PART 3]. Richard Hatch and his search for the author of “The Expert".](/img/n.gif)
There is a small mistake in a quote from the book, for which I must apologize.
At 7:27 the original quote from the preface is
"...it will not make the innocent vicious, or transform the pastime player into a professional; or make the fool wise, or curtail the annual crop of suckers; but whatever the result may be, if it sells it will accomplish the primary motive of the author, as he needs the money"
One of the greatest stories in magic. The great advantages of the no internet times, that people needed to dedicate time hunting for this and even at this time we don't know for sure the real author. Great video and looking forward for the next video.
This is true, I can't even imagine how much work was put into this investigation. One had to really think a lot and be strategic because without Google, every single "search" took weeks if not months.
Loving the Erdnase channel and the Erdnase hunt series. I believe Glenn Bishop's theory is the most accurate. We keep assuming he's a card cheat when all the magic tricks in the book are explained well (better than the second deal even) and have illustrations. I also think he was a card magician. Possible reasons he did not get enough recognition include no media, no social media channels, no TV deals existed back then, he may not have cared about being famous, his wife may have kept nagging him to get a "real" job, his lack of communication skills etc. Even photographs were very rare back in 1902. If your charisma failed you, the only other option or media you would have back then would be becoming an author.
incredible story......things were very mysterious back in those days...late early 1800l..1900s..
Awesome as always sir! I know is hard to make these vids because they're packed with wonderful information, and we appreciate them a lot. Always looking forward for the next one!
Thank you! Yes, this story required quite a bit of research :D Glad you liked it!
Looking forward to the sequel!
Mr. Hatch, it is an honour to get a comment from you, thank you for watching my video.
Your provide very good content and you deserve much more subscribers. Thanks for the story!
Thanks for watching!
Fascinating!
I love history! I'm passionate to a number of subjects, space exploration, circus and sideshow, culinary arts and Asian cuisines Japanese martial arts,, samurai and ninja, movies and original full-sheet film posters... I have many interests and hobbies. Becuase I'm a magician of 25 years, I'm particularly fond of magic history! I absolutely love historic magic & magicians collections and museums. Antique props are one of the neatest things to me .
Great videos, one of my absolute favorite UA-cam channels!
Thanks Nick for such kind words, I really appreciate it!
Love your channel !! Cant wait for next video.
Thanks, happy to hear that! Next one is coming soon ;)
Hey Man, you have an incredible channel. All your investigations are pure gold which Let us be educated in a way no other channel could do. We owe you lots.
Thank you, I really appreciate it!
Man, this is awesome content. I can't understand the small amount of subscribers. One added from Spain!
I knew Jay Marshall very well, Jay and my dad were very close friends for many years. I talked with Jay about this and he told me that this story is interesting, but does not confirm that Erdnase name was Andrews. His reasoning, was that people don't remember who magicians are after they perform their acts. Jay said to me, all it is is gossip about magic.
"People don't remember who magicians are after they perform their acts." sure...who's David Blaine or Chris Angel I can't remember?
Love that channel so much! well-researched content! You sir deserve more views and subscribers! Keep going!
Thank you my friend, your words give a lot of motivation to keep going!
Really fantastic video! 👏👏👏
Hey, I was just reading Expert At the Card Table since I just got it, and I noticed that many times already, the author refers to himself as “we.” For example, when teaching the SWE shift, he says “we have not dubbed the following process with our initials...” so is it maybe possible that multiple people wrote this book? Just a thought
You are right, this "royal we" is definitely a peculiarity of Erdnase style of writing. And it drew the attention of some researches. I believe there are theories of multiple authors or someone helping him to write this book. However, as far as I am aware, none of those has become "mainstream" theories.
@@ArtofImpossible ok thanks!
I have yet to see any evidence that George Taylor learned from a guy named Andrews, or if he even existed. Other that Pratts story.
talking ethics with card shufflers
It is questionable that ED Pratt even met Erdnase. Magicians lie for attention quite often And the Pratt story was blown out of perportion and all of it went into the Busby book, The man who was Erdanse, which is just theory and not fact. And the book was not even close to a "best seller" or the Bible of card work or magic. It is "one book" out of thousands of card books. And thousands of card magic tricks. The only one that "Met" Erdnase was MD Smith and he could not remember who Erdnase was. Smith was paid by check the story goes, on a new Back account that was in Chicago. When Martin Gardner "Who I knew" questioned smith, if he was Andrews he said he could not remember.
Part two... There is no proof that ES Andrews was SW Erdnase real name. This information came about when the house of Drane's owner said it was. The house of Drane published the book apparently after the first run of books was done. Or Almost done. And there is "no Proof" that Erdnase was a card cheat. No one, including MD Smith ever saw Erdnase playing cards, or card cheating at the card table. Plus, card cheats do not publish secrets of how to cheat at cards. The only one that did was Walter Scott. Who wrote up "Phantom of the card table" however he was a Vaudeville Guitar player in a Hawaiian group. And he performed his Punch work for magicians, which for card cheats, who thought magicians were worthless idiots, doesn't make him likely to be a card cheat.
Nobody knows why he wrote it? He says in the book why, did you even bother to read it before making these videos?
I did read the book :)
"No one knew for sure why he had written it" is my quote to be exact.
Erdnase means "Earth Nose" in German - you may have soiled your schnozzle
The only thing I found interesting is that you have no idea who Erdanse was. There are several things about the book that explains the theory of what kind of person Erdanse was. All I have seen so far, is a lot of misinformation.
I am sorry that you feel this way.
This video was nothing more than my humble attempt to give a very short introduction to the Erdnase problem and to present just one single theory: the one about the MFA which was developed by Gardner, Busby and Whaley in "The Man Who Was Erdnase".
I am absolutely aware of the fact that there are problems with this theory and that some facts can be put under doubt (e.g. Pratt's recollections). However, I wanted to present a consistent story, therefore I did not mention these problems during the video and only mentioned that there are other theories in the beginning and at the very end of the video. I talk about other theories and arguments against this theory, as well as about Erdnase's profile in my other two videos on Erdnase that were published on this channel.
I have read your other comments with great interest. Thank you so much for taking the time to share some of your knowledge about Erdnase.
@@ArtofImpossible I think you may have missed the point, "The Man Who was Erdnase Busby book is "Theory" and not fact. And in my opinion should be presented as "theory". The book was also not a popular book in Erdnase time when he published it. That is probably the House of Drane was able to publish it. The owner apparently got the copyright and Erdnase's remaining books, and met Erdnase at that time. But that could be story, The House of Drane was a wholesale company that sold magic props, including many that My Father stocked in his two magic shops when he was alive. Jay Marshall also stocked Magic INC with House of Drane products.
@@ArtofImpossible Also Martin Gardner was not a professional magician, he was a magic club hobby magician, and very, very egotistical. He wrote books for "magic hobby club magicians". The only two magicians that I remember he put up with telling him that his "Theory" of who Erdnase was - was "Theory and not fact - was Jay Marshall and my dad. My dad was a heavy student of Erdnase and used many of the Erdnase moves in his card work. However young magicians, it was better not to question Martins "Theory's" about Erdnase.
@@ArtofImpossible In my opinion the only "Fact" is that there was a book written and published by SW Erdnase Called Expert at the card table. However, even the extra comments that he or she wrote in the book about playing cards in a saloon, and that the back palm of a single card got him or her out of a bad situation, that could have involved card cheating. Could be the author adding story to add creditability to his or her published work, and could be fiction.
@@ArtofImpossible Also, Dai Vernon was not the only person that read and studied Erdnase in his time, I met Dai Vernon. Dai Vernon showed me his routine for Three card monte. I never heard Dai say or write that Erdnase ever said that Erdnase was a card cheat. Dai said to me, and wrote many, times that card cheats and cheaters were very secret People. And it took him a long time often for Vernon to get them to share secrets. In my opinion it really does not sound likely that a card cheat, that made a living cheating would write a book and try to sell it, exposing how he cheated and made his living. However a magician, card enthusiast would publish one.
I think you like to see yourself on UA-cam
no one knows who s w erdnase is
me: erdnarse is erdnase
problem solved