5 famous pieces of music HATED by their composers
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- Опубліковано 4 чер 2024
- Five rather remarkable stories about five rather remarkable pieces of music.
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www.buymeacoffee.com/classicalmk
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Saint Saens Carnival of Animals: • Saint-Saëns - Carnival...
Rach Prelude: • Evgeny Kissin Rachma...
Ravel Bolero: • Wiener Philharmoniker ...
Batteur de Bolero: • Le batteur du bolero c...
Tchaikovsky 1812: • Tchaikovsky: Ouverture...
Hope your channel grows! Very no-nonsense and dense, but still acessible for people to truly get into classical music. Good work!
Love the Rachmaninoff, in the C# minor. That progression is just compelling. I can understand why he would come to dislike it, he wrote a masterpiece as a child and then was stuck with it. Had he written late in his life, he would have embraced it.
Rachmaninoff wasn’t a child when his wrote the “infamous” prelude, he was nineteen. But he probably got sick of having to play it so much. Personally, I think it’s marvelous. It’s so Russian.
i don't think he wrote it as a child....he was around 18-19
I've played it twice in my life, second time on request (people do seem to like to hear it). It is far from my favourite piece by Rachmaninoff to play. And yes, he composed it when about 18, with youthful vigour and panache. But musically it is not very complex, later works are far more refined and developed and enthralling emotionally. I am sure he wouldn't have hated playing it now and then, but all the time, I would hate it too!
Prokofiev resented conducting his March from The Love for Three Oranges, which is likely his most familiar piece. He claimed it was musical toss-off that was played far more often than it deserved. Regardless, I always enjoy it and consider it a short masterpiece.
Prokofiev wrote a piece, "March of the Capulet's," (I should fact check that) that is even more compelling than that other March. Yea, probably heard Three Oranges as a child watching cartoons. Might have even triggered a musical appreciation impulse.
The Love for Three Oranges is a bourgeoisie masterpiece. How many true Socialists can afford such an indulgence while being worked to death in GULAG?
One orange is suspicious enough to question one's parentage, of course, but THREE?!
Dance of the Knights is far more familiar
Although it is true that Tchaikovsky had little value in the 1812 overture, it is also true that he himself conducted this piece many times in his life.
Your channel is criminally underrated
Sibelius actually disliked Valse triste, one of his signature pieces. Apparently he didn't consider it as a work of much substance and he regretted having sold the piece to the publisher for only a lump sum. Had Sibelius retained his royalty rights for Valse triste it alone would have made him a very rich man. So he preferred not even to talk about the piece.
Tbf nothing of his work is of much substance.
@@Whatismusic123 That may be your opinion, but nobody is loosing any sleep over your views.
@@Whatismusic123 lol
That's hilarious. Sibelius is and will remain one of the top five composers of the 20th Century, with or without your criticism.
@@ezekielbrockmann114 wooooow top 5 of the 20th century? You mean the century where only two good composers existed, he's in the top 5? Good for him!
He's still incompetent though.
Well I'm not going to argue with you.
Apart from Sibelius's 8th: as a young man he composed the tone poem Kullervo, which was performed to great acclaim. Then he withdrew it and as I recall it was never performed in his lifetime again. Too bad for his contemporaries, because it's a great piece and I'm glad he didn't burn it!
Another work one might mention: Beethoven's "Wellington's Victory", which he himself considered nothing more than a fun noise maker, but which became a bit too popular for comfort. He was also frustrated that the public liked his 7th symphony more than the 8th, didn't think much of the famous first movement from the Moonlight sonata, and would probably spin in his grave if he knew how popular Fur Elise would become (gotta admit, with that last one, if I never hear it again it will be too soon).
Kullervo has intense spiritual significance.
The story of Kullervo isn't one to muck around with, not for anyone, but especially for Someone who's not ethnically Finnish. If you don't understand, shut the hell up about it.
Bolero -with a two-part melody of such beauty and complexity who needs form or development?
1812 Overture -my intro to classical music. I was 12 living near a city that was the site of a major battle of the War of 1812. I thought the music was written to commemorate that war, and that music was my tone-poem about the Battle of Baltimore, the bombardment of Fort McHenry, and the writing of the poem "The Star Spangled Banner."
I was 12 and was barely aware of Napoleon.
IIRC, Beethoven was rather put out at the popularity of his Septet, Op. 20. It doesn't belong on the list here because, these days, Beethoven really is remembered primarily for works that he himself thought better of; but in his lifetime, it seems to have been a sore point for him. Another piece that springs to mind is Bach's Toccata & Fugue BWV 565. We can only speculate what Bach would have thought of its posthumous popularity (it wasn't that well known in his lifetime), but the work (especially the fugue) is so a-typical of Bach's style that many musicologists and musicians today believe that it isn't by Bach at all... Perhaps you could do another vide on mis-attributed works: that is, pieces that are deemed emblematic of their composers, but actually weren't (or at least might not have been) composed by them at all. (the most egregious is "Albinoni's" Adagio).
Bach is kinda of a Name that Composer. There seems to be some sort of signature that says "this is by Bach," even when hearing the piece for the first time after the first few notes, even before a melody has been completed. That isn't always the case. It would seem that Vivaldi, Handel and Bach must have known each other in some way, and there is some overlap, but each as a distinct recognizable "name that composer" style as well. However, is in most history, there are more people who contributed that we don't know, and may never know.
This is really well done! Need to tell some of my friends about it
Grieg as well hated his own Mountain King piece according to classicfm
Another such piece is Debussy"s "Reverie". Although given to a publisher at an early age it was not published until many years later and to Debussy's regret. He said it was "...a work of no consequence and...absolutely no good."
From: _The Piano Works Of Claude Debussy_by Robert Schmitz
i'm surprised that you didn't mention the Nutcracker sweet by Tchaikovsky. He was on record saying he hated the work
I think that, if I were Samuel Barber, I'd feel about my Adagio For Strings the way Rachmaninoff felt about his C# minor Prelude.
It is said that Beethoven almost came to hate the Moonlight Sonata for its popularity overlooking all his other sonatas and the allegretto of the Seventh symphony saying that the Eight was better.
I don't think that's true.
If anything, he came to detest how perfect his Pathetique Sonata was, and how he couldn't quite replicate it in a way that satisfied his customers. Indeed, many of his sonatas are (sometimes successful) attempts to recreate the Lightning-in-a-Bottle that was his Pathetique.
“A little bombastic “. A little, alright.
Fantaisie Impromptu by Chopin also comes to mind
Chopin never said that he didn't like the piece. See the wikipedia page for this piece for the reason that he didn't want it to be published.
@@rogerg4916 I stand corrected then, or at least I mostly likely was wrong about that.
@@Returnality I suppose you could say that Chopin didn't like that first draft (which is what almost everyone plays) or else he wouldn't have revised it so in that sense you are right.
@@rogerg4916
I've read that it was amongst some of his other works that he wanted destroyed after his death.
Thankfully it wasn't.
Tchaikovsky also didn’t like his 5th symphony, although this is a true masterpiece. Mozart didn’t like his flute quartets, today the D major Quartett is a much cherished core part of the repertoire. Chopin didn’t like his cello sonata, Schubert had misgivings about the Wanderer fantasy.
Sibelius just didn’t want to repeat himself, which is a problem of our time. A very good cd on BIS records 4 fragments from 1930-1957 which MAY be from the 8th Symphony (if it existed). Very interesting, perhaps beautiful but that’s the way it goes….
BIS is simply the best.
Thank you.... I knew about all of them except the Sibelius.... its made my eyes water.
5:50 May I suggest to your viewers to actually find the movie “Le Batturie de Bolero” on UA-cam? It is worth watching. The director talks about the much hated tune and follows a person playing it agonizing about mundane problems, while doing the same repetition for the full piece. Thanks for these five hated pieces. I knew Bolero would be in it but I still love it.
Yes I had already included a link in my video description. A great film...
Sibelius died in 1957, not 1951.
Sibelius actually died in 1957, not 1951.
Ravel is one of my favourite composers. I absolutely love his music. But I could never stand Bolero, even before I had learnt that Ravel himself didn’t like it. But when I did, I completely understood.
Coming from rock and jazz, I've always loved Bolero as the quintessential one-chord tune, only changing modes on the chorus (I can't help likening it to Coltrane's take on My Favorite Things), minus of course that startling big key change at the coda. A great melody. But I completely get its non-Ravel flavor.
I am amazed. All though I had heard about it previously, that Racmaninoff was only 19 when he wrote such great musical piece.
BOLERO was in Captain from Castile film and made that film. He didnt appreciate his own work.
OK, so Saint-Saens died at age 86, not 91. I have never heard ANY suggestion that Saint-Saens thought the Carnival of the Animals was a bad piece or that he hated it. So far as I have read (which is quite a bit) he was just concerned that people wouldn't take his other music seriously.
In general, most of the pieces you brought up weren't "hated" by their composers. They were, in some cases, frustrated that the general public wanted to focus on these particular pieces rather than getting to know some of their other music. I will allow that Tchaikovsky probably didn't think the 1812 overture was very good, but then at some point, Tchaikovsky thought that of just about everything he composed.
And nothing in what Ravel said about Bolero (at least the things you quoted him as saying) indicated that he thought it was a bad piece. He was just concerned that the public either wouldn't like it or wouldn't understand it.
Sorry to be so critical, but I feel like your title is kind of clickbait-y.
I actually agree...kinda. I think it's fascinating that Ravel down-graded - and Saint-Saens banned - pieces with which they both had no personal problems: that says something v.interesting about early modernism and popular culture...that I will make a video about one day!
Thanks for correction on age.
@@enjoyclassicalmusic6006 Zeno North is right about the Boléro. Ravel did not like the Pavane pour une Infante défunte. In 1912 Ravel confessed that he could "no longer see its qualities. But - alas! - I can certainly see its faults: the Chabrier influence is flagrant and the form is quite poor." (Source: Maurice Ravel by Gerald Larner, Phaidon, 1996)
Thanks for comment. I based my comment upon it. 👨🏻🍇Rob Refined
I remember reading Wagner "hated" that Valkyries ouverture, composers probably reacted badly to the popularity of a repetitive ribald theme, something we now call cringe, like if you shout some joke in public then regret it later
I'm happy to know Ravel and I are in agreement.
Chopin’s Fantaisie-Impromptu in C#-minor deserved a mention.
Could have mentioned that Beethoven hated his battle symphony "Wellington's Victory".
A variation of this topic would be awesome. That being, "5 famous pieces of classical music HATED by famous concert musicians." For example, I'm no famous musician, just an organist. But I have an absolute hatred of Pachelbel's Canon. It's like nails on a chalkboard to me. You would have to hold my wife hostage to make me......play.......NO! Not even then! lol
Great idea! Like 'Solos that give Horn Players Nightmares,' that'd be a ripping good video!
There's a great rip on it by a musical comedian on UA-cam. He takes that insipid chord progressions and demonstrates how many (and there are many) pop tunes have ripped it off (well, I-vi is kinda ubiquitous anyway) and by the end he's a tortured, neurotic Prisoner of Pachelbel. Hysterical. ua-cam.com/video/JdxkVQy7QLM/v-deo.html
JS died in 1957
Debussy and Chopin also had pieces published they didn't think a lot of. But sometimes the composer is not the best judge...
Max Bruch loathed his "Scotch Rapsody" and had mixed feelings about the "Kol Nidrei".
Paderewsky hated his Polka as well
Rumor has it that the Rachmaninoff "Prelude" was a musical rendition of someone who had been buried alive.
Ito my ear, it's a rip off of La Catedrale Engloutie.
That's what Keith Emerson said in the liner notes of the quoted section he used in The Nice's Azrael Revisited.
Love your channel. Bolero annoys me as well. 1812...earplugs, please. Love the others.
Bolero. I knew that one would come up. But it’s so wonderful. It’s perfect. So is the Prelude in C# minor. I don’t care what the composers thought. I love those pieces.
I agree. It seems to me (not being able to speak to composers of the 19th century) that coming up with curious, interesting, novel modulations was praised. And many of those composers sought out unique, new, creative modulations, with in the confine of what is mostly tonal music. To then write a piece that has practically no modulations (none until the end, if I recall) and to limit oneself to very little chromaticism, would be a challenge and going back on the universal principle of "brilliantly written harmonies and modulations are required." It transpires that the listening audience didn't care, and fell in love with Bolero. If you were to ask "what is the most beautiful melody ever composed"? Most people would have Bolero among their top 10.
Damn, disgusting
@@jugutierrez Dull, is the word I'd use.
4:05 PURE BRILLIANCE
We can add Beethoven and the op27 n2 : he never understood why it was so popular while he wrote, according to him, so much better stuff.
The Moonlight Sonata was from his early period, and could very well have been his most successful piece to the day he died, so I could understand why it frustrated him. He also had some unkind words for the audience who demanded an encore of the Cavatina from his string quartet op. 130, but not the Grosse Fuge… can you really blame them?
Saint-Saëns just wrote something so good he was afraid it'd overshadow the rest?
Richard Wagner was totally dissatisfied with his Tannhauser, and said on his death bed that he still owed it to the world.
From what I read, Schoenberg got upset when people liked his _Gurrelieder._
What a finalé!
Complete Rach quote is very funny & probably true more or less.
Rachmaninoff first published his first piano concerto before c sharp...
👨🏻🍇Just asking … do producers have control over the click bait? Most comments question the term “HATE.” A strong word and, depending a person’s culture, stronger than my Middle Midwestern US take on it. But the word generates hits. If toned down to “did not feel his best”, the click bait is lost … too many words. Love comments here. I learn a lot from this magnificent audience. Thanks.
Saëns just twisting and twirling in his grave xD
So, the idea is that you compose what you like as a masterpiece, and nobody listened...
I’m with Ravel on Bolero
At 220 you state that Rachmaninoff composed his Preluce in c-sharp minor in 1992. I'm sure you meant to say 1892.
I was only 100 years out...
The background at 0:32 makes me laugh 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
I wonder what Stravinsky, in the midst of his neoclassical period and being pooh poohed by the High Modernists for yielding to reaction, thought about his Russian period. I mean, I love Dumbarton Oaks as much as the next Stravinsky fan, but I don't think it holds a candle to The Rite, The Firebird or even Les Noces. What did Igor think?
Bolero is great music to screw to, pleasurable rhythmic trust and all.
You forgot Beethoven's Moonlight Sonata mvt 1
It' s mesmerizi
ng.
I understand the Tjakovksy one. That one is probably my least favourite by Tjakovsky.
Funnily enough I don't like the 1812 overture either.
I agree with all of these.
Carnival of the Animals is drab, except for children.
Rachmaninoff spent his life writing superior preludes that didn't mimic La Catedrale Engloutie.
Any boring moment from any of Tchaikovsky's seven symphonies (and there are many) is superior to the 1812 Overture.
Bolero is a bloated, overhyped experiment in testing the patience of any musically - literate audience.
We're all grateful for Sibelius' Seventh, Fifth, First, etc. He would have harmed his reputation and sales by desecrating that corpus which is already perfect.
Ravel never hated his Bolero! Bla bla bla
I love Russian classical music. It’s hard to keep enjoying it divorced from what the country under Putin is doing to Ukraine.
Hmm the political rant on Russia didn't age well. Support Palestine!
And ukraine
Keep geo politics out of music. It ruins the video.
Please stay out of things you don't understand, stick to talking about music.
1 Peter 4:17 For the time has come for judgment to begin at the house of God; and if it begins with us first, what will be the end of those who do not obey the gospel of God?
Ephesians 6:12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this world’s darkness, and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.
Matthew 10:37 He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me.
NATOpoleon
Ok until your ignorance about the about Ukraine war. Shameful.
The Putin commentary was completely unnecessary and detracts from the video. It has zilch to do with anything
Nothing happens in a vacuum. So sorry to remind you of the thousands Putin is slaughtering in Ukraine.
Yes, absolutely. And Tšaikovski was an ukrainian. And Napoleon was not russian, nor was he Putin, or in any way related to him. So it's all rubbish really.
@@puliturchannel7225 Since when north of Russia is Ukraine? (i dont care but you just said funny nonsence)
@@FireF1y644 his parents were Ukrainian
@@shochre6497 not true also
I would have given this a like, but I was here for the classical music, not the pro NATO propaganda.
My feelings exactly. If I wanted one sided pro-US proxy war propaganda I would have put on the Australian Broadcasting Corporation (ABC), BBC, or CNN.
Well La Di Da.
Too right.
If you’re going to make content for a classical music channel, putting forward you political views is wrong. And stupid if your views are wrong, which his are.
@@torgenxblazterzoid What’s wrong about them? I’m not challenging your position, but I’m curious because I don’t know anything about this.
Putin -part was totally out of context, especially as the original piece was about defeating Napoleon, not about celebrating a dictator or anything like that. Actually it is a kind of russophobic comment, besides Tšaikovski was actually ukrainian, so... I mean, I understand youtubers' willingness to be anti-war, but if it is out of context, it just takes away from the video, which was meant to be about classical composers.
Sibelius died in 1957, not 1951.