Tx for the great tips just a question about the gcd usage. It sounds like you need to use every gcd during the fight precisely, but there should be gaps where you just wait for energy anyways for the next bs, so why did it matter if you used the one before a second later than you could? Or do you mean only during the opening sequence one must hit all gcd perfectly without wasting any time?
I’m a month late but you get that when you are setting up ELVUI with the redtusk skin! When doing the in game installation make sure you have the raid frames set to vertical. Hope this helps!
@@anihroxxor he wouldn't be. They are in a high end elite guild, he's fury prot for sure they have no need for a prot tank. That dps would smoke a prot tank if he mt's any of the bosses
I agree LIP at the start is bad. its terrible actually. as you showed any decent tank will have gained plenty of aggro for you to just go ham. my best vael is 2100+,. total BWL is 980 and thats with a 41 parse on broodlord due to going after a plunger that decided to go up mid fight. easy 2k vael guide is this...if youy have prd/cht 1- get world buffed 2- use all consumes you can 3- backstab till 5 then S&D 4- backstab till dead thats it, 2k parse if your fight is long enough to have to renew S&d and it will last more than 10 or 12 seconds then youre not getting 2k anyway.no need to renew it, just backstab like mad OP makes of a point of saying 5pt evis is better than BS before a certain AP number. Im BIS minus DFT and neck. dont recall what fully buffed is but im 800ish non buffed. gonna guess im under that breakpoint he mentions. so according to him i should be using evis at every 5pt after the initial S&D. its a pure rng. my BS crits for near 80%. evis much lower. so yes a evis crit is better than a crit BS but BS crits so much more often. just spam BS. Ive tried it both ways. BS....on VAEL...is better than an evis. regularly banging out 1800 to 2k BS. lucky if i get one 2k evis. as for BF. you may or may not have itr up for the start of the fight,a nd if it is up you may not want to use it. yes and it will be a DPS increase but its better to use if you have adds on razorgoore. or def better to save for trash pack after vael. my 2100+ vael parse does NOT have a BF in it. why? it benefits the raid more that i absolutely destroy the trash pack after VAEL than i take a second off our vael kill time. yes you should have the vael buff for the next trash pack and well into the start of suppression room. as for those who have a shit tank and would actually needa LIP. 1-world buff 2- consumes 3- backstab till 5 then S&D 4 if you happen to pull threat then vanish - ambush if you will pull threat again after vanish then your raid needs a new tank there is rarely a need for a LIP in any fight for a rogue. mages or locks withj trhe right Vulns on chromag or trash, yes, rogues, no. if youre geared enough to put out that much damage than your tank should be geared/skilled enough to not let you pull aggro
You sound like you know your stuff, got my sub straight away. Any chance you can do a basics on Rogue? Just started playing wow and dragged my swords to 57 so far with just SS and SnD. Would love to see how to play the rogue properly so I can even begin to think about end game content, cheers man.
That's not true at all. 2-3 pt snd opener is only for guilds doing much faster kill times. The average rogue should be opening with 5 pt because a 2-3 pt will not last the full fight and have to be refreshed. An average kill time vael that is refreshing snd just wasted an extra global that was worth an average of a 2k backstab in damage.
Classic Roguecraft a 5 point SnD will also have to be refreshed for the average Rogue/Guild lol. classic.warcraftlogs.com/reports/C2VnRTFXr4GHMWaA#fight=4&type=damage-done
@@Mythrellas untrue. By refreshing a 5 pt snd you're giving up 1 backstab worth of damage, which is a worse return for a lot of guilds. The math works out that you need 10-15 sec of fight time without snd to reach the point where it's worth refreshing snd instead of just backstabbing.
cool but im thinking couldnt you keep 1 goblin alive just before vael to pop snd on him? saves you a gcd on the actual fight and you get your snd 4 gcds earlier aswell?
Nice Video. But Ambush was always better opener then BS. The only times u prefered BS over Ambush back then, was in seal fate build to generate more cp's. Greetings
Felstriker actually performs very poorly dps gain wise compared to other weapons and dagger rogues already have very high crit on raids so stringing a ton of crits on opener is common. If you're pulling threat after a vanish it's almost always an issue with your tanks or guild.
you can. Some people do make macros for that (and also to add in any pre-pop trinkets such as ZHM trinket) More common is just a /startattack addition though, to break stealth asap and keep attack uptime going
Great guide, 1:30 top of screen showing seconds left of food, so you need to rebuff, is it a weak aura or some addon that creates this? would love to use as well.
Good question. Basically a 1 pt snd is not worth the 1 sec to cast it when it could have been spent on a backstab instead. Every second of vael is super important so you only cast high dps skills such as 5 pt eviscerate/snd.
@@nubl3718 sword rogues want to use a dagger (pref lobotimizer or better) to backstab and swap endurance talents into imp backstab. Backstab just does too much more damage than SS when you're spamming it.
I don't have a build guide but I'm using fairly standard pve combat daggers build (only change I did was put 3 pts in imp gouge instead of lightning reflexes)
lol my vael is 50 seconds and i do more dmg than you. but ya sarthe got excited with new lips strat and he was jumping the gun saying use it on all fights, when its just good for vael
It's situational based on your tank as explained. You need a tank that fits the requirements in order to use the lip strat properly (and the right fight), otherwise it's more beneficial to not lip.
You should make a 99 parse guide for all bosses in bwl I'm sure people would love to see that. Thanks for this.
Get good rng, have other dps that pump.
Popped 2144 tonight. So stoked. Ty for the video.
You summarize it perfectly. We are at the mercy of the mt.
Tx for the great tips just a question about the gcd usage. It sounds like you need to use every gcd during the fight precisely, but there should be gaps where you just wait for energy anyways for the next bs, so why did it matter if you used the one before a second later than you could? Or do you mean only during the opening sequence one must hit all gcd perfectly without wasting any time?
Amazing guide! had no idea about the breakpoint for dagger rogues
Nice. Im interested in raid hp addon on the left side 3:50
Luka Goti so am I!
I’m a month late but you get that when you are setting up ELVUI with the redtusk skin! When doing the in game installation make sure you have the raid frames set to vertical. Hope this helps!
Love your work. I'd love to see a guide / video on Seal Fate in Classic.
Come join us in the Classic Roguecraft Discord, we're growing fast at over 1.5k members already! - discord.gg/T9XQJw7gJj
As an orc for this fight would you want to pre cast blood fury with Bladeflurry or wait for a crusader proc and fit in then
can't wait to see the other boss fights in bwl
1:15 he isn't even trying to flex, he knows he doesn't need to. He's just letting you know he knows his shit
The offtank wearing a shield...lol
if he is prot its better...
@@anihroxxor he wouldn't be. They are in a high end elite guild, he's fury prot for sure they have no need for a prot tank. That dps would smoke a prot tank if he mt's any of the bosses
So what is the actual classic rogue rotations for sword/daggers. I hear so many different views on when to refresh snd and when to use eviscerate
yeah..... that's exactly HOW MOST of us hardcore dps warriors feel like..... we can't play the game if we have a bad tank.
Same as warlock ...
I agree LIP at the start is bad. its terrible actually. as you showed any decent tank will have gained plenty of aggro for you to just go ham.
my best vael is 2100+,. total BWL is 980 and thats with a 41 parse on broodlord due to going after a plunger that decided to go up mid fight.
easy 2k vael guide is this...if youy have prd/cht
1- get world buffed
2- use all consumes you can
3- backstab till 5 then S&D
4- backstab till dead
thats it,
2k parse
if your fight is long enough to have to renew S&d and it will last more than 10 or 12 seconds then youre not getting 2k anyway.no need to renew it, just backstab like mad
OP makes of a point of saying 5pt evis is better than BS before a certain AP number. Im BIS minus DFT and neck. dont recall what fully buffed is but im 800ish non buffed. gonna guess im under that breakpoint he mentions. so according to him i should be using evis at every 5pt after the initial S&D. its a pure rng. my BS crits for near 80%. evis much lower. so yes a evis crit is better than a crit BS but BS crits so much more often. just spam BS. Ive tried it both ways. BS....on VAEL...is better than an evis. regularly banging out 1800 to 2k BS. lucky if i get one 2k evis.
as for BF. you may or may not have itr up for the start of the fight,a nd if it is up you may not want to use it. yes and it will be a DPS increase but its better to use if you have adds on razorgoore. or def better to save for trash pack after vael. my 2100+ vael parse does NOT have a BF in it. why? it benefits the raid more that i absolutely destroy the trash pack after VAEL than i take a second off our vael kill time. yes you should have the vael buff for the next trash pack and well into the start of suppression room.
as for those who have a shit tank and would actually needa LIP.
1-world buff
2- consumes
3- backstab till 5 then S&D
4 if you happen to pull threat then vanish - ambush
if you will pull threat again after vanish then your raid needs a new tank
there is rarely a need for a LIP in any fight for a rogue.
mages or locks withj trhe right Vulns on chromag or trash, yes, rogues, no.
if youre geared enough to put out that much damage than your tank should be geared/skilled enough to not let you pull aggro
Great guide man!
You sound like you know your stuff, got my sub straight away. Any chance you can do a basics on Rogue? Just started playing wow and dragged my swords to 57 so far with just SS and SnD. Would love to see how to play the rogue properly so I can even begin to think about end game content, cheers man.
Ty for the support! Yep, I'm working on a rogue basics series so that's definitely on the to-do list.
Hey can you make a gearing guide for rogues who are on the under populated side of server and only want to world pvp and not raid.
please do a talent spec video
At the start you should be SnDing after 2 or 3 Backstabs, not waiting for 5. #2300 DPS
That's not true at all. 2-3 pt snd opener is only for guilds doing much faster kill times. The average rogue should be opening with 5 pt because a 2-3 pt will not last the full fight and have to be refreshed.
An average kill time vael that is refreshing snd just wasted an extra global that was worth an average of a 2k backstab in damage.
Classic Roguecraft a 5 point SnD will also have to be refreshed for the average Rogue/Guild lol. classic.warcraftlogs.com/reports/C2VnRTFXr4GHMWaA#fight=4&type=damage-done
@@Mythrellas untrue. By refreshing a 5 pt snd you're giving up 1 backstab worth of damage, which is a worse return for a lot of guilds. The math works out that you need 10-15 sec of fight time without snd to reach the point where it's worth refreshing snd instead of just backstabbing.
Classic Roguecraft Okay, I’ll test it out tonight. Should get close to a 30sec kill if Horde aren’t douchebags in the tunnel.
u must use snd only once, if your guild might kill vael in 3 points snd do it
Wish I could do this, even at around 800dps, 5P BF and a vanish I'm fighting threat. I've tried talking to our tanks politely with no luck.
Is he using his fists? Tell him to pop reck on the fight. Maybe that will help.
Similar thing here, haven't been able to go above 1.2k so far
cool but im thinking couldnt you keep 1 goblin alive just before vael to pop snd on him? saves you a gcd on the actual fight and you get your snd 4 gcds earlier aswell?
you can, it's a bit cheesy though and mostly you'd only do that level of cheese if you have a super fast vael kill
@@ClassicRoguecraft ye were getting 25-30 second vaels now so pretty insane to push out that extra dmg for rogues
Nice Video. But Ambush was always better opener then BS. The only times u prefered BS over Ambush back then, was in seal fate build to generate more cp's. Greetings
evis might not be worth since it doesnt have good dmg if it doesn't crit. I've teested both and its hard to tell because I had lucky crits on evis
Should I be paying attention to my Swingtimer or just spam BS throughout?
just spam for vael. You can't waste any time waiting on swingtimer during vael due to the unlimited energy.
@@ClassicRoguecraft Did as you told, put on a dagger now i am up to a 96 parse! Keep moving forward 👍
have you done this method with felstriker? i seem to pull threat on every vael if it procs and i lip/vanish too early
it's definitely a tank issue for you. Your tank should be generating enough threat to not pull aggro after the first few globals (if they're good)
Classic Roguecraft sounds like you’ve never used felstriker
Felstriker actually performs very poorly dps gain wise compared to other weapons and dagger rogues already have very high crit on raids so stringing a ton of crits on opener is common.
If you're pulling threat after a vanish it's almost always an issue with your tanks or guild.
As a sword rogue how much dps loss/gain is not having +5 dmg to main hand dagger?
Depends on how fast your guild kills the boss, if its a fast kill, crusader can give you better results, if not +5 damage to weapon is better.
How do you feel about using SnD with 2 combo points at the start of the fight to get the attack speed bonus up faster?
2 pt snd opener for swords is what I generally suggest. For daggers they do it even quicker with 1 bs > snd usually.
i will take advice from a Asian when it comes to my dps rotation ! thank you sir !
3:30 umm feint?
nice video, do you have a list of your addons?
that's coming on the discord either today/tomorrow, keep an eye out for it
Cant you macro vanish into backstab/ambush?
you can. Some people do make macros for that (and also to add in any pre-pop trinkets such as ZHM trinket)
More common is just a /startattack addition though, to break stealth asap and keep attack uptime going
Great guide, 1:30 top of screen showing seconds left of food, so you need to rebuff, is it a weak aura or some addon that creates this? would love to use as well.
yep it's my own weakaura, will be posted along with my rogue UI guide in the next day or so, keep an eye in my discord for the post!
if you LiP before the fight starts, will you not get the Essence of the Red buff?
Nvm, you said this later in the video
Can this be done as a sword rogue?
yep, works same for sword rogues since you'll be using a dagger to bs even as a sword rogue.
Thank's!
Why do u not go for 1combo slice and dice
Good question. Basically a 1 pt snd is not worth the 1 sec to cast it when it could have been spent on a backstab instead. Every second of vael is super important so you only cast high dps skills such as 5 pt eviscerate/snd.
@@ClassicRoguecraft Is this also the case with sword rogues, i.e. 5x Sinister Strike? And does it depend on racials
@@nubl3718 sword rogues want to use a dagger (pref lobotimizer or better) to backstab and swap endurance talents into imp backstab. Backstab just does too much more damage than SS when you're spamming it.
where we can see your build?
I don't have a build guide but I'm using fairly standard pve combat daggers build (only change I did was put 3 pts in imp gouge instead of lightning reflexes)
Nice Video :)
2.5-3 sek missed BF.
PinkParseGang
step 1.... kill vael in UNDER 30 seconds and your dps will be insane
can i have your tank please?
Hey thats me!
I get a delay sometimes when I try to ambush out of a vanish :(
Most likely because you don’t have enough energy to Ambush straight away.
@@MeltingBuddhaCandle It was actually this lol, was a big noob back then
lmao horde dont count windfury dont count
imagine not knowing what the global cd length is for wow classic
Huh? Global for rogues 1 sec... what are you talking about?
lol my vael is 50 seconds and i do more dmg than you. but ya sarthe got excited with new lips strat and he was jumping the gun saying use it on all fights, when its just good for vael
So you said you shouldn’t lip the opener and then you lip the opener. Scratches head....
It's situational based on your tank as explained. You need a tank that fits the requirements in order to use the lip strat properly (and the right fight), otherwise it's more beneficial to not lip.