I am a huge believer in turned in shifters, I realy do think it is the true shape of ergonomics for a a hand to fit on, I think it will effect mainly the over the top riders really looking for those to get by the uci banned rules.... but I think for all the other riders they can achieve a similar riding position and still be comfortable with a natural twist to the shifters. They are really going after the "extreme" cases
Thank you for this video. I tried to tell the UCI myself that it is simply to keep your wrist in a more anatomically correct position to make sure my wrist are oriented in their strongest form identical to what position I use when I bench press with dumbells. I've been doing that for 20 years almost so it just is NOT going to change for me ever. No point in banning that.... I am absolutely dumbfounded by their overreach of power. They should have their brains revoked.
Turning my hoods in is one of the biggest improvements I've made to my fit in the last year. A more natural wrist angle makes a big difference on comfort. Too bad the UCI deemed it necessary to ban it.
I agree with you GC. I toe mine in a little...but only about 10 deg or so and a bit less than your less toed in example. I do find it more comfortable aka ergonomic on the hoods versus straight ahead for the reasons you explain. Oh and F the UCI. Yes, we do need a sanctioning body for pro racing but 99.99% that ride road bikes don't engage in organized racing.
UCI has a lot of rules that are not about safety. It's about setting the definition for what is road cycling and what is a road bicycle. Otherwise we'd be racing fully faired velomobiles and it would look nothing like how people want bicycling to look. Yes, it's the fashion police
Why didn't they ban road disks then? For the love of God, it would have saved us so much money, head aches, weight and aero to just ban those immediately. They could also ban hookless stuff (for safety) and tbh, any tire over 28mm is not a road bike tire, 25mm even.
@@SampoSaarela not aero necessarily. While the brakes themselves are less aero it has allowed for better designed wheels which are more aero due to the tire-rim transition. However it could be argued that if they kept investing in rim brakes they could have just improved those for wider wheels and tires. Idk
@@ThisIsANameBruh probably could have, also less spokes. 20 straight ones is plenty for rim brakes, even 16 works. With carbon blade spokes you could likely get away with 12 or so. And spokes are a big aero thing as they travel fast and drag is propositional to speed squared.
I turned my shifters in on one of my bikes and it is super comfortable! I rode my bike that isn't turned in the other day and it felt super awkward. Can't believe I've been riding with them straight for years!
yea I know right?!?! it is something so simple but feels so natural, and usually this is not the case, when we are use to something so long there is usually push back and it doesn't feel good instantly but everyone who I hear who does it says they enjoy it right from the first ride
I think the best wording of the rule (which I agree with) is to state the min width of bars (say 36cm) then dictate that the shifters can be no closer than bar width - 5cm (for example). So for a 36cm bar, the distance between the shifters at their narrowest point must be 31cm or greater. Measuring angle is a waste of time and requires some wacky tool.
Even that ruling is heavy handed and makes no allowances for rider size. I've settled on 42cm bars at 6'4" which is significantly smaller than what would come on a new bike. I can easily imagine a 5'2" female rider might have an optimal bar size smaller than the rule allows.
An extreme turn in such as on your BMC actually tends to force your elbows outwards (thus creating a larger frontal area = less aero) as it turns the wrist the other way. A moderate amount of toe-in is more ergonomic, the extremes are not. I'm surprised handlebars are still being made without flare. Ritchey was making bars with a 10 degree flare as far back as the late 80's. Flare makes it way easier to transfer your grip between the hoods and drops as you don't have to reach under the cross bar to get at the drops, making riding safer.
As an aging road biker I’ve been searching for fitment updates to help my bad hands. Neil Stanbury completely changed my bike fit. I had ridden years with the wrong settings on just about everything. I just tried the tiled shift levers recently and it’s magical. Comfy bike now.
I’ve tried this setup - regardless of what anyone says, it compromises your reach of the brake levers, especially when in the drops. Regarding the position itself - guaranteed back, neck and shoulder issues for normal riders who go down this road and have long days in the saddle… just get a set of bars that match your shoulder width and set the levers up properly.
100% agree. A small amount of toe in is ok. Those that want angled shifters should run flared bars, then the reach to the levers from the drops is not compromised in any way.
A moderate tow in is more comfortable. I tried it because I saw some of the fastest people doing it and figured it was more aero, but after trying it I realized it was more than that.
This is disappointing… in turned hoods are far more anatomically natural for the wrists. Manufacturers do need to catch up and offer a hood to bar attachment that does not rotate the hoods when toed in so the top of the hoods are flat for the palm. I don’t buy the UCI’s reasoning,I’ve no doubt we’re not getting the full picture.
These things have fashion trends. Just like bell-bottom jeans coming back after many years. I remember when it was gospel to have handlebar widths that matched your shoulder width. It meant that everybody was advised to ride with their arms aligned straight forward. Like you said, it also meant we were cramping up our wrists and suffering carpal tunnel problems. In mountain biking over the last decade, handlebars have become wider and wider, and bar-ends have almost disappeared. It's fashionable. The UCI also has fashion trends. Every couple of years the control freaks who are in power dream up another way to tweak the rules. Arguments continuously emerge. In two years' time, those dudes will be focussing on some other rule to persecute the riders with.
I have no idea why the groupset manufacturers haven't created separate new groupsets yet where the handle follows the ergonomics of the hand and wrist better.
This would be a non-issue if they were all riding steering wheel bikes. And does it have anything to do with puppy paws, I read at Cycling News that it was about stresses on the bars and that the riders' advocacy group is in agreement with this ban. And pro cycling was fine for a century with the hoods being parallel to one another and personally, I think the turned-in hoods look sort of homemade, like steering wheel bikes back in the day. 😀
I turn my hoods in a bit. It definitely reduces the tension in my hands and stops my hands from going numb. Also, UCI currently bans any position in which a rider touches the bar with their forearms-even if they are also holding the hoods.
lol I have been racing with hoods “in” since early 2000s. This rule is such bollocks! Another reason for the bike manufacturer, to create a handlebar that mimics angles 😂 and the sleep to buy!
Thank you very much, I did a video on the wheels, they are the elite wheels really good value for the look of wheel ua-cam.com/video/i_cxaLwN4gw/v-deo.html
I had accident after I turned it like that for comfort, It snapped while going down hill luckily I am fine, I would say kinda danger but go for it if you want to try but be careful
really?? well first off, I hope your okay and I hope your doing better, but you can for sure say it was from them being over tunred in, or was it from being over tightened when repositioning them? was it from hitting a bump or pothole?
Pros like change , uci dose not . If they had their way the riders would still be on steel frames , aluminium rims with 19 mm , cable shifting 9 speeds, getting drinks and fluids from local restaurants on each stage.
Having narrow handle bar causes far less control in maneuvering, and effectiveness of steering in various situations, (as indicated by pro cyclists). I started tilting hoods several years ago, without creating much philosophical explanation, simply is more ergonomic. I have Shimano Ultegra mechanical, which requires deep inside push of lever (much deeper than Sram mechanical), this tilt makes it a bit easier.
Ive had my handlebars at an extreme toe in for 3 years now and can get into an incredibly aero position with them. I've raced all throughout those years, on bad rough roads too and I'm running off brand Ali Express 38cm bars. I haven't had a single issue with reaching the brakes or damage to the handlebars Imo this is genuinely a reactionary ruling from the old boys of cycling who don't like change
I really like that BMC, tried to order that exact frame a few months ago but it was sold out in my size 58-61. Can, or have you posted a review of the BMC? I recently toe'd in my hoods/shifters, but not extreme and it has been a very comfortable adjustment for me. Should have done this years ago.
My numb hands were history after I turned in my shifters and with that any idea of putting them back straight was history as well ;-) I don't think this adjustment is a source of safety issues, UCI must have bigger concerns than this?
@@GCPerformance18 cyclists resist change but I do feel like flared bars are the best of both worlds. You get narrow aero benefits in the hoods (and added comfort with a natural wrist position), and you don't sacrifice decent control by still having a wider stable grip in the drops. On my road bike I have straight bars with turned in hoods, but it doesn't feel as natural as a flared bar since there is only turning in and no rotation that you get with a flared bar. Plus going from the turned in hood to a straight drop feels kind of awkward compared to having a flared bar. Aesthetics wise, I do also feel like flared bars give a more aggressive looking stance to the bike kind of like an airplane wing having downward flared wingtips.
@@BrianMcDonaldyea I am loving that bmc cockpit. I feel nice and arrow and stay up more in the hoods but don’t feel like I’m just a kite in the wind. And when I need the width of the drops for sprints it works great.
My understanding is that the UCI fully expect to see the use of flared bars to achieve a similar shifter position, and are fine with this as the shifter will be directly in line with the flare.
Uci has always been against technology, even though that is the driving force in the bike industry. It’s crazy how both of these entities have completely different processes on the future of Cycling
it looks like the UCI has a “tool” to check and it seems that it will allow some degree of play in it, not extreme but it looks like its a couple of degrees inwards
The UCI is ran by a bunch of archaic people afraid of progress. Since I angled in my shifters as you said it made it more ergonomic and less uncomfortable for my wrists. They need to focus on other things that matter.
(non-engineering tin hat theory) I wonder if the BIANCHI OLTRE RC bar breaks had anything to do with this decision? (If the rider had toed hoods, I dont know) I'd imagine with the hoods toed in that it leaves the corner of the bar being the focal point of impact in a crash whereas if the hoods where in the normal position that in a crash there is at least some deflection and the shifter takes most of the impact.
maybe, I do not know the rider shifter position on those but I rememebr the incident, but I mean he crashed, I dont think that is the toe in shifter fault, if you do something the handlebar or shifter is not intended to do like crash and have hard impact applied, then of course it can brake no matter what happens
If I was making the rules, it would he something like: you get 1 bike per tour week, do whatever as long as they don't have a motor, if it survives it's good enough, no matter weight or whatever. Otherwise just have everyone riding the same bike, like the generic ones (Shimano, old Mavics at the TDF).
I mean if it is out there to make the rider the best performance out there for gear equipment, that is up to the rider to choose, alot of riders do not like 36cm still, I thin it is mainly from a saftey standard, but also, these are pro riders, they are only going to do what they deem necessary when they think it is going to benefit them, you wont see everyone riding on forearms in the group but if you think you can out ride the peloton why not let that guy ride in that position if he is by himself
I think if you run 40cm c2c bar and then tilt for the shifter hoods to be 26cm or something stupid like that, that should definitely be banned. I think what they will do is not a total ban, rather just set a limit to how much tilt can the shifters go.
I agree with that, I have some seen some extremee im all for that, but I think even the bmc one I showed in the video was not that bad, still not for me but I like it a little less
Personally I thought this position of shifter handles looked stupid and I was against it ,however after your explanation about the natural positioning of the wrist and the fact my hands due tend to get numb, I think I’m going to try a bit toed in on my shifters. Your argument makes sense and I never thought of it that way. Thank you and I will let you know how it goes.
I feel like that BMC is super sick, but not sure I love the red on the spacers and cockpit. Can you get transitional black spacers/cockpit? Did you do a long term review yet? I’d love to hear how you’re liking it.
I am loving this bike, mainly there handlebars, this cockpit is my favorite out of all bikes right now, onyl got 2 rides on the bike so far because i bounce around on other bikes but this bike is very nice
The problem behind turning in the shifters is the fact that the bars are not designed to take the load of the shifters that way. A lot of pro temas such as dsm and UAE are having troubles with cracking bars because the shifters are turned in.
OMG, I'm glad I'm not the only one...I toe mine in about 20 degrees, and everyone says it looked weird. For the longest time, I have not come across any bike fitters suggesting toeing the shifters over parallel. Forget UCI, we need to talk about this more as an ergonomic necessity. My natural hand position, when swinging up from elbow tends to toe in, not parallel! Therefore, I had to toes in my shifters for comfort reason, it's actually alleviate my elbow problem, which in the past had the tendency to stay locked position over long rides and cause joint pain (parallel setup).
yes!! with the parallel setup I feel my inner pal collapse and kind of roll over where I have more pressure, where as the toe in, i find it sits my hand in a position where it is supported by the wrist and not as much pressure on the inner palm, it seems awkward at first especially if your use to strait shifters even I was the same I was like oh its just trendy and not gonna do anything but I feel in love when i did it
that is the company called blackheart titanium bikes they make there own carbon fiber handlebar and it is super nice they might sell it by themselves if you reach out to them
Rip Taco van der Hoorn hé is a brake away rider he is been training a aero position with his levers in a ridiculous position to be as aero as possible You can look it up he is laying on his bars
How do you tolerate climbing on the hoods like that? Is that really a thing in the pro peloton? I know narrow bars are but haven't seen this extreme tilt on the hoods.
@@GCPerformance18 Fyi no offense meant at all, and I find this stuff fascinating tbh. Adam Hansen was a pioneer with the position, mega drop, slammed -17 stem, narrow bars, saddle jammed forward. If he could do 20 grand tours in that position I believe anything can be adapted to and that "fitting" bikes is only a good starting point as we all can change quite a bit over time and miles. That's why pros have zero issue riding small frames slammed.
@@billscott6819oh no offense taken :) I’m always open to discussing these things in comments. I would have no idea how it is to climb with these but majority of it is in the hoods and maybe that would help with leverage
@@GCPerformance18 I just looked at Remco's bike, you're right about that. Every watt counts. Even just leg shaving will save you an entire minute over 40km. There was a pretty cool specialized video proving that. Cheers and best of luck with Xmas sales!
If i want safety i'll go ahead and watch F1 :) as a dutchman i've been riding hands free for most of my life, cause its comfortable. never had a crash, it takes the UCI to make that into a safety issue. How many crashes have happened because the rider lost control?? please let me know
Yes, it's much easier to brake in the aero hoods position with the hoods tilted inwards, and you have a much firmer and ergonomic grip. On the other hand, if you have straight bars and not flared, it's slightly more difficult to brake on the drops if the lever head deviates too much to the outside.
I think just alittle toe in does not look crazy. The super turned in levers looks hideous but I like the bike with a little bit cocked in levers makes it look more aggressive in my opinion
yea we are seeing this trend, the bmc bars are like this and also the enve bars that tadej is riding are like this too, I do not know why enve has not released those yet everyone is liking those
I partly agree, but I think if you're turning the lever in excessively to not fold your wrist inwards, it's usually a sign that your handlebar is too wide
a ban on agressive toe in , i agree should happen but i think they should allow a maximim toe in angle instead for the exact reasons you reccomend , ergonomics , so it would only be a ban if it meets or exceeds the maximum angle for measurement they can make a bar thet clips on parallel with the handlebars or they can use the dops to determine the angle too
Yeah - but when you don’t have it, you start getting weird bikes, people using calf and back flairs. The people are winning bc they have more money and tech and not from being good. So a lot of individual rules seem dumb, but you do need some organization
I agree funny they banned the supertuck which I love when they are decending in the supertuck I'm noticing they are not showing when they are decending down going 50 plus MPH instead they are showing some dumb buildings damn it!
@@jwfriar bro the bikes are like $15000 and the riders whole lives are centered around riding.. That ship has sailed. They should allow more innovation and experimentation to justify the insane costs and danger. As is they have the worst of both worlds
@@future62 what does the cost have to do with the racing regulations? The UCI doesn’t own bike manufacturing and bike manufacturers do make non-UCI legal bikes. There are non-UCI sanctioned events that you can watch if you prefer.
@@jwfriar manufacturers put a ton of R&D into their racing bikes. If they are limited to what a bike frame can look like or how narrow handlebars can be they won't innovate. I think bikes being "weird" and things like back and calf flairs are a good thing. Innovation helps drive the sport and bikes forward.
I just think it looks stupid. I have an FSA bar that's 38 and flairs to 40 and it puts the shifter slightly angled inward if you mount them straight, which basically has the same effect. They feel great and don't look odd. On my straighter bars I toe them in a little but not too extreme and it's more for comfort than aero gains.
That’s absolutely ridiculous. You should be able to ride 🚴🏻♂️ however you want, whatever position you that works for your body! Handlebar manufactures need to step up their design and build quality.
That BMC is ugly. All that red must hurt the eyes when riding for longer than 30 minutes. ps: Remco doesn't have the shifters inwards as extreme as on your BMC. Pogacar yes, Remco no.
If you have to toe in for comfort, it means manufacturers are not designing ergonomic levers. And I would agree with that. They have been idiots about ergonomically design levers since forever.
wish UCI would ban droppd seat stays, internal cable routing and disc brakes on road bikes too. while their at it, the UCI can ban wearing helmets while not on the bike, especially inside of cafes
In my opinion, its fine that the banned turned in shifters. I mean it totally looks dorky if you dont use a proper flared handlebar. But they should also ban aero socks and aero helmet. Everything that looks dump should be banned :D
They're absolutely right, bikes started to look ridiculous with shifters tilting, these cyclists nowadays do not count their blessings, carbon frames, 12 speeds, or deep wheels...instead, they keep changing stuff just to look cool and different than the next guy, I bet some popular cool winner did it and everyone else follows! Bravo UCLA!
your arms hang down with the top of your thumb pointing directly symmetrical in front of you? I feel mire no matter how I stand strait up they cock in a little, It might just be my rolled in shoulders from my self conscious of my man tities but I know a lot of other riders I position on there bikes have a natural turn in as well
@@GCPerformance18 No, the top of the hands, across the knuckles, do point straight ahead. They weren't always like this. Took a lot of mobility and strength work. Years.
I am a huge believer in turned in shifters, I realy do think it is the true shape of ergonomics for a a hand to fit on, I think it will effect mainly the over the top riders really looking for those to get by the uci banned rules.... but I think for all the other riders they can achieve a similar riding position and still be comfortable with a natural twist to the shifters. They are really going after the "extreme" cases
As you said...they are going after the extremes. For example Pello Bilbao's lever position at Tour Down under's prolog.
Thank you for this video. I tried to tell the UCI myself that it is simply to keep your wrist in a more anatomically correct position to make sure my wrist are oriented in their strongest form identical to what position I use when I bench press with dumbells. I've been doing that for 20 years almost so it just is NOT going to change for me ever. No point in banning that.... I am absolutely dumbfounded by their overreach of power. They should have their brains revoked.
They just want natural hand position known to cyclists since moustache bars.
I tried it this fall and it’s a huge ergonomics benefit. Especially if you have ulnar nerve pain.
You know, if you look at the flight control of the Cessna 172 plane, it also slants inward.
We're human anatomy, not legos.
Turning my hoods in is one of the biggest improvements I've made to my fit in the last year. A more natural wrist angle makes a big difference on comfort. Too bad the UCI deemed it necessary to ban it.
Lol...nonsense😂
Fine if you don’t do bunch racing.
To make the sport safer, the bike should be equipped with airbags, abs, lane assist and collision sensors 🤩🤣
To make the sport safer, they need to stop racing since crashes can be so injurious to the body!!!!
I agree with you GC. I toe mine in a little...but only about 10 deg or so and a bit less than your less toed in example. I do find it more comfortable aka ergonomic on the hoods versus straight ahead for the reasons you explain.
Oh and F the UCI. Yes, we do need a sanctioning body for pro racing but 99.99% that ride road bikes don't engage in organized racing.
I mean it is such a natural position if i stick my arm out it literally has the natural turn in motion
UCI has a lot of rules that are not about safety. It's about setting the definition for what is road cycling and what is a road bicycle. Otherwise we'd be racing fully faired velomobiles and it would look nothing like how people want bicycling to look. Yes, it's the fashion police
Why didn't they ban road disks then?
For the love of God, it would have saved us so much money, head aches, weight and aero to just ban those immediately.
They could also ban hookless stuff (for safety) and tbh, any tire over 28mm is not a road bike tire, 25mm even.
@@SampoSaarela not aero necessarily. While the brakes themselves are less aero it has allowed for better designed wheels which are more aero due to the tire-rim transition. However it could be argued that if they kept investing in rim brakes they could have just improved those for wider wheels and tires. Idk
@@ThisIsANameBruh probably could have, also less spokes. 20 straight ones is plenty for rim brakes, even 16 works. With carbon blade spokes you could likely get away with 12 or so. And spokes are a big aero thing as they travel fast and drag is propositional to speed squared.
Boomer spotted
@@SampoSaarela Rim brakes definitely do NOT save you money LOL. Rim brakes destroy carbon wheels.
I turned my shifters in on one of my bikes and it is super comfortable! I rode my bike that isn't turned in the other day and it felt super awkward. Can't believe I've been riding with them straight for years!
yea I know right?!?! it is something so simple but feels so natural, and usually this is not the case, when we are use to something so long there is usually push back and it doesn't feel good instantly but everyone who I hear who does it says they enjoy it right from the first ride
I think the best wording of the rule (which I agree with) is to state the min width of bars (say 36cm) then dictate that the shifters can be no closer than bar width - 5cm (for example). So for a 36cm bar, the distance between the shifters at their narrowest point must be 31cm or greater. Measuring angle is a waste of time and requires some wacky tool.
Even that ruling is heavy handed and makes no allowances for rider size. I've settled on 42cm bars at 6'4" which is significantly smaller than what would come on a new bike. I can easily imagine a 5'2" female rider might have an optimal bar size smaller than the rule allows.
An extreme turn in such as on your BMC actually tends to force your elbows outwards (thus creating a larger frontal area = less aero) as it turns the wrist the other way. A moderate amount of toe-in is more ergonomic, the extremes are not. I'm surprised handlebars are still being made without flare. Ritchey was making bars with a 10 degree flare as far back as the late 80's. Flare makes it way easier to transfer your grip between the hoods and drops as you don't have to reach under the cross bar to get at the drops, making riding safer.
I turned my bars and stem backwards.The whole community is now doing it.
i did this adjustment on my road bike and i loved it !!! Much more comfort and fun !!!
As an aging road biker I’ve been searching for fitment updates to help my bad hands. Neil Stanbury completely changed my bike fit. I had ridden years with the wrong settings on just about everything. I just tried the tiled shift levers recently and it’s magical. Comfy bike now.
I’ve tried this setup - regardless of what anyone says, it compromises your reach of the brake levers, especially when in the drops.
Regarding the position itself - guaranteed back, neck and shoulder issues for normal riders who go down this road and have long days in the saddle… just get a set of bars that match your shoulder width and set the levers up properly.
100% agree. A small amount of toe in is ok. Those that want angled shifters should run flared bars, then the reach to the levers from the drops is not compromised in any way.
A moderate tow in is more comfortable. I tried it because I saw some of the fastest people doing it and figured it was more aero, but after trying it I realized it was more than that.
This is disappointing… in turned hoods are far more anatomically natural for the wrists.
Manufacturers do need to catch up and offer a hood to bar attachment that does not rotate the hoods when toed in so the top of the hoods are flat for the palm.
I don’t buy the UCI’s reasoning,I’ve no doubt we’re not getting the full picture.
Get the idea of this setup. Thanks for the good and clear explanation. But doesnt it compromisse reaching the levers when in the drops ?
Out of interest, what bar tape is that? It looks awesome.
These things have fashion trends. Just like bell-bottom jeans coming back after many years. I remember when it was gospel to have handlebar widths that matched your shoulder width. It meant that everybody was advised to ride with their arms aligned straight forward. Like you said, it also meant we were cramping up our wrists and suffering carpal tunnel problems.
In mountain biking over the last decade, handlebars have become wider and wider, and bar-ends have almost disappeared. It's fashionable. The UCI also has fashion trends. Every couple of years the control freaks who are in power dream up another way to tweak the rules. Arguments continuously emerge. In two years' time, those dudes will be focussing on some other rule to persecute the riders with.
I have no idea why the groupset manufacturers haven't created separate new groupsets yet where the handle follows the ergonomics of the hand and wrist better.
This would be a non-issue if they were all riding steering wheel bikes. And does it have anything to do with puppy paws, I read at Cycling News that it was about stresses on the bars and that the riders' advocacy group is in agreement with this ban. And pro cycling was fine for a century with the hoods being parallel to one another and personally, I think the turned-in hoods look sort of homemade, like steering wheel bikes back in the day. 😀
I dig the Skyways. It's good to see them making a comeback.
Awesome video,nice to see you did the video topic on the Titanium Blackheart,Titanium always looks beautiful.💯👌🏻✌🏻🚴♀️
Thanks for watching!
Wouldn't matter on normal bars, it's the stress on carbon bars that's the issue,
The handlebar width minimum is 35cm. If the drops are 35, it doesn't matter how narrow the tops are.
I turn my hoods in a bit. It definitely reduces the tension in my hands and stops my hands from going numb. Also, UCI currently bans any position in which a rider touches the bar with their forearms-even if they are also holding the hoods.
yea same here for me, and no I thought the rule was you have to have your hands on the hoods, so that was the bipass to it
Nope. UCI rules ban a rider from resting forearms on tops regardless of their hand position. It sounds stupid, of course, but that’s the UCI.
lol I have been racing with hoods “in” since early 2000s. This rule is such bollocks! Another reason for the bike manufacturer, to create a handlebar that mimics angles 😂 and the sleep to buy!
yea it is really fucked and now you are going to see handlebars being sold flared in that are uci legall just for them to make a buck
Great video! Curious, what wheels are on the BMC bike? Thanks in advance!
Thank you very much, I did a video on the wheels, they are the elite wheels really good value for the look of wheel
ua-cam.com/video/i_cxaLwN4gw/v-deo.html
I had accident after I turned it like that for comfort, It snapped while going down hill luckily I am fine, I would say kinda danger but go for it if you want to try but be careful
really?? well first off, I hope your okay and I hope your doing better, but you can for sure say it was from them being over tunred in, or was it from being over tightened when repositioning them? was it from hitting a bump or pothole?
Looks a lot like the spinachi bars also banned by the UCI.
Pros like change , uci dose not . If they had their way the riders would still be on steel frames , aluminium rims with 19 mm , cable shifting 9 speeds, getting drinks and fluids from local restaurants on each stage.
this is the truth
Having narrow handle bar causes far less control in maneuvering, and effectiveness of steering in various situations, (as indicated by pro cyclists). I started tilting hoods several years ago, without creating much philosophical explanation, simply is more ergonomic. I have Shimano Ultegra mechanical, which requires deep inside push of lever (much deeper than Sram mechanical), this tilt makes it a bit easier.
Ive had my handlebars at an extreme toe in for 3 years now and can get into an incredibly aero position with them. I've raced all throughout those years, on bad rough roads too and I'm running off brand Ali Express 38cm bars. I haven't had a single issue with reaching the brakes or damage to the handlebars
Imo this is genuinely a reactionary ruling from the old boys of cycling who don't like change
I really like that BMC, tried to order that exact frame a few months ago but it was sold out in my size 58-61. Can, or have you posted a review of the BMC? I recently toe'd in my hoods/shifters, but not extreme and it has been a very comfortable adjustment for me. Should have done this years ago.
My numb hands were history after I turned in my shifters and with that any idea of putting them back straight was history as well ;-)
I don't think this adjustment is a source of safety issues, UCI must have bigger concerns than this?
I wonder if you will see more flared bars as a result and if they will restrict those too.
yes I think they will be made and marketed as "Pro Bar" like a spec of it
@@GCPerformance18 cyclists resist change but I do feel like flared bars are the best of both worlds. You get narrow aero benefits in the hoods (and added comfort with a natural wrist position), and you don't sacrifice decent control by still having a wider stable grip in the drops. On my road bike I have straight bars with turned in hoods, but it doesn't feel as natural as a flared bar since there is only turning in and no rotation that you get with a flared bar. Plus going from the turned in hood to a straight drop feels kind of awkward compared to having a flared bar. Aesthetics wise, I do also feel like flared bars give a more aggressive looking stance to the bike kind of like an airplane wing having downward flared wingtips.
@@BrianMcDonaldyea I am loving that bmc cockpit. I feel nice and arrow and stay up more in the hoods but don’t feel like I’m just a kite in the wind. And when I need the width of the drops for sprints it works great.
My understanding is that the UCI fully expect to see the use of flared bars to achieve a similar shifter position, and are fine with this as the shifter will be directly in line with the flare.
@@andrewmcalister3462 I'm looking forward to that being the reality so more flared bar options become available
We don't even know what the definition will be, and the riders union is involved. You'll still be able to turn the hoods in, just not in a silly way.
I love my 50cm Ritchey handlebars with toe in shifters.
Uci has always been against technology, even though that is the driving force in the bike industry. It’s crazy how both of these entities have completely different processes on the future of Cycling
it looks like the UCI has a “tool” to check and it seems that it will allow some degree of play in it, not extreme but it looks like its a couple of degrees inwards
I’ll have to try this on my bikes
it works very well
The extreme toe in leaves the shift brake levers to be vulnerable to contact or damage in a crash. I still do it somewhat.....
how, I feel like they would be out of the way for a crash they are less to touch in close contacfts
The UCI is ran by a bunch of archaic people afraid of progress. Since I angled in my shifters as you said it made it more ergonomic and less uncomfortable for my wrists. They need to focus on other things that matter.
(non-engineering tin hat theory)
I wonder if the BIANCHI OLTRE RC bar breaks had anything to do with this decision?
(If the rider had toed hoods, I dont know)
I'd imagine with the hoods toed in that it leaves the corner of the bar being the focal point of impact in a crash whereas if the hoods where in the normal position that in a crash there is at least some deflection and the shifter takes most of the impact.
maybe, I do not know the rider shifter position on those but I rememebr the incident, but I mean he crashed, I dont think that is the toe in shifter fault, if you do something the handlebar or shifter is not intended to do like crash and have hard impact applied, then of course it can brake no matter what happens
If I was making the rules, it would he something like: you get 1 bike per tour week, do whatever as long as they don't have a motor, if it survives it's good enough, no matter weight or whatever. Otherwise just have everyone riding the same bike, like the generic ones (Shimano, old Mavics at the TDF).
I thought this was stupid, but i tried it. Suprise! Toeing the levers in, even slightly, is much more comfortable. Bottom line: F the UCI!
Remco. When he was crashing all over the place in Spain 🤣🤣🤣 the uci said nah. No mo lol
I kinda understand this. UCI wants every racer to be the same. Like stock car races. I get it. Dont really agree with it, but i get it
I mean if it is out there to make the rider the best performance out there for gear equipment, that is up to the rider to choose, alot of riders do not like 36cm still, I thin it is mainly from a saftey standard, but also, these are pro riders, they are only going to do what they deem necessary when they think it is going to benefit them, you wont see everyone riding on forearms in the group but if you think you can out ride the peloton why not let that guy ride in that position if he is by himself
@@GCPerformance18 i agree, i have no doubt that some teams will figure out a way around this
Lowers brake levers to drops. Is more aero like time trial bike 🙂
hahahah
I think if you run 40cm c2c bar and then tilt for the shifter hoods to be 26cm or something stupid like that, that should definitely be banned.
I think what they will do is not a total ban, rather just set a limit to how much tilt can the shifters go.
If anybody is going to ask me why I think it should be banned, I just think it looks stupid when you tilt it too much. 😂
I agree with that, I have some seen some extremee im all for that, but I think even the bmc one I showed in the video was not that bad, still not for me but I like it a little less
Personally I thought this position of shifter handles looked stupid and I was against it ,however after your explanation about the natural positioning of the wrist and the fact my hands due tend to get numb, I think I’m going to try a bit toed in on my shifters. Your argument makes sense and I never thought of it that way. Thank you and I will let you know how it goes.
That’s awesome, yes it is something free to do and made a really good change for me on my end
I feel like that BMC is super sick, but not sure I love the red on the spacers and cockpit. Can you get transitional black spacers/cockpit?
Did you do a long term review yet? I’d love to hear how you’re liking it.
I am loving this bike, mainly there handlebars, this cockpit is my favorite out of all bikes right now, onyl got 2 rides on the bike so far because i bounce around on other bikes but this bike is very nice
How can you have a rule that will be administered based on someone’s whim of what is bad or not?
i think for 2024 they are examining it, but for 2025 they wil have a tool to measure it and an exact amount of what is legal ornot
The problem behind turning in the shifters is the fact that the bars are not designed to take the load of the shifters that way. A lot of pro temas such as dsm and UAE are having troubles with cracking bars because the shifters are turned in.
OMG, I'm glad I'm not the only one...I toe mine in about 20 degrees, and everyone says it looked weird. For the longest time, I have not come across any bike fitters suggesting toeing the shifters over parallel. Forget UCI, we need to talk about this more as an ergonomic necessity. My natural hand position, when swinging up from elbow tends to toe in, not parallel! Therefore, I had to toes in my shifters for comfort reason, it's actually alleviate my elbow problem, which in the past had the tendency to stay locked position over long rides and cause joint pain (parallel setup).
yes!! with the parallel setup I feel my inner pal collapse and kind of roll over where I have more pressure, where as the toe in, i find it sits my hand in a position where it is supported by the wrist and not as much pressure on the inner palm, it seems awkward at first especially if your use to strait shifters even I was the same I was like oh its just trendy and not gonna do anything but I feel in love when i did it
Wait, is that LV bar tape?
its by a company called burgh
I swear they did this to piss off Poggi 😂 since he wins most of the races.
2:19 what handlebar is that?
that is the company called blackheart titanium bikes they make there own carbon fiber handlebar and it is super nice they might sell it by themselves if you reach out to them
Rip Taco van der Hoorn hé is a brake away rider he is been training a aero position with his levers in a ridiculous position to be as aero as possible
You can look it up he is laying on his bars
How do you tolerate climbing on the hoods like that? Is that really a thing in the pro peloton? I know narrow bars are but haven't seen this extreme tilt on the hoods.
yea check out remco and tadej some of the top talent out there are riding this position, also I dont climb down here FYI
@@GCPerformance18 Fyi no offense meant at all, and I find this stuff fascinating tbh. Adam Hansen was a pioneer with the position, mega drop, slammed -17 stem, narrow bars, saddle jammed forward. If he could do 20 grand tours in that position I believe anything can be adapted to and that "fitting" bikes is only a good starting point as we all can change quite a bit over time and miles. That's why pros have zero issue riding small frames slammed.
@@billscott6819oh no offense taken :) I’m always open to discussing these things in comments. I would have no idea how it is to climb with these but majority of it is in the hoods and maybe that would help with leverage
@@GCPerformance18 I just looked at Remco's bike, you're right about that. Every watt counts. Even just leg shaving will save you an entire minute over 40km. There was a pretty cool specialized video proving that.
Cheers and best of luck with Xmas sales!
@@billscott6819Interestingly, Adam Hansen is now the head of the CPA (pro riders union) and is on board with this rule change.
Can anyone tell me what bike computer model that is?
it is hammerhead karoo
To start wih, first blame industry for drilling -plastic- composite hadlebars to allow -stupid- fancy internal cable routing.
Go to bed boomer. It's not "plastic"
If i want safety i'll go ahead and watch F1 :)
as a dutchman i've been riding hands free for most of my life, cause its comfortable. never had a crash, it takes the UCI to make that into a safety issue.
How many crashes have happened because the rider lost control?? please let me know
in reality tilt brifter make low posture more stable
Yes, it's much easier to brake in the aero hoods position with the hoods tilted inwards, and you have a much firmer and ergonomic grip. On the other hand, if you have straight bars and not flared, it's slightly more difficult to brake on the drops if the lever head deviates too much to the outside.
new shimano hoods are inclined from the production.
The fact that UCI is making this a big deal is supadumb. Ergonomically it's super comfy and cool.
Some toe-in is fine by me, but not too much. I might try toe-in one day.
In UCI Gravel races is it stil allowed?
yes as long as it is in the natrual profile of the bar
UCI has no jurisdiction on us mere mortals! Why even do the puppy paw when you can just rest your elbows TT like on the bars?
There might be an aesthetic element to the rule aswell. UCI has done it before. Looks ridiculous.
I think just alittle toe in does not look crazy. The super turned in levers looks hideous but I like the bike with a little bit cocked in levers makes it look more aggressive in my opinion
I toe mine in for one reason, It’s far more comfortable.
1000 percent agree with this, this is my main reason not for aero gains but it naturally feels more comfortable for me
isn´t it from 2025 ?
Plus confortable mais je ne course pas donc pour moi c’est mieux
UCI should ban cycling because it is a risk to riders.
HA, the the most factual statement out there
Honestly it's a bit dumb to leave the norm undefined.
What is "too much" ?
Flared gravel narrow bars!
yea we are seeing this trend, the bmc bars are like this and also the enve bars that tadej is riding are like this too, I do not know why enve has not released those yet everyone is liking those
Man you speak so fast I had to put subtitles on 🤯
Hahahaha I’m sorry
Just joking ahah good video, informative in fact, thank you!
Angle it a bit more and it turns into a flat bar 🤣
lmfao
Wouldn't toes in cause your elbows to stick out?
Because it's dangerous, makes braking and shifting difficult, looks gay?
I partly agree, but I think if you're turning the lever in excessively to not fold your wrist inwards, it's usually a sign that your handlebar is too wide
Seems to me that the UCI, in effort to justify their existence, is passing unnecessary regulations which hampers innovation.
yea they need to stay relevant
a ban on agressive toe in , i agree should happen but i think they should allow a maximim toe in angle instead for the exact reasons you reccomend , ergonomics , so it would only be a ban if it meets or exceeds the maximum angle
for measurement they can make a bar thet clips on parallel with the handlebars or they can use the dops to determine the angle too
That why they call Handbar
yes
what brand of bar tape is that on the silver bike? Looks awesome.
UCI claims this is for safety- what crash has ever been caused by turned in hoods? What a stupid organization.
Yeah - but when you don’t have it, you start getting weird bikes, people using calf and back flairs. The people are winning bc they have more money and tech and not from being good.
So a lot of individual rules seem dumb, but you do need some organization
I agree funny they banned the supertuck which I love when they are decending in the supertuck I'm noticing they are not showing when they are decending down going 50 plus MPH instead they are showing some dumb buildings damn it!
@@jwfriar bro the bikes are like $15000 and the riders whole lives are centered around riding.. That ship has sailed. They should allow more innovation and experimentation to justify the insane costs and danger. As is they have the worst of both worlds
@@future62 what does the cost have to do with the racing regulations? The UCI doesn’t own bike manufacturing and bike manufacturers do make non-UCI legal bikes. There are non-UCI sanctioned events that you can watch if you prefer.
@@jwfriar manufacturers put a ton of R&D into their racing bikes. If they are limited to what a bike frame can look like or how narrow handlebars can be they won't innovate. I think bikes being "weird" and things like back and calf flairs are a good thing. Innovation helps drive the sport and bikes forward.
Fairly sure your wheels are also UCI banned as well. 😉
I just think it looks stupid. I have an FSA bar that's 38 and flairs to 40 and it puts the shifter slightly angled inward if you mount them straight, which basically has the same effect. They feel great and don't look odd. On my straighter bars I toe them in a little but not too extreme and it's more for comfort than aero gains.
That’s absolutely ridiculous. You should be able to ride 🚴🏻♂️ however you want, whatever position you that works for your body! Handlebar manufactures need to step up their design and build quality.
That BMC is ugly. All that red must hurt the eyes when riding for longer than 30 minutes.
ps: Remco doesn't have the shifters inwards as extreme as on your BMC. Pogacar yes, Remco no.
For safety's sake, they should probably ban how had they stomp on the pedals. Going really fast in the peloton is super dangerous... pfft...
hahaha
If you have to toe in for comfort, it means manufacturers are not designing ergonomic levers. And I would agree with that. They have been idiots about ergonomically design levers since forever.
The toe-in position is way better for my wrists, so I dont care
You can modify where the shifter meets the handlebar so there's no extra pressure. They should get back to measuring socks...
wish UCI would ban droppd seat stays, internal cable routing and disc brakes on road bikes too.
while their at it, the UCI can ban wearing helmets while not on the bike, especially inside of cafes
One of this days the UCI is gonna make racing illegal lol
lmao thats the joke
I have always tilted my shifter inward, just felt better than twisting my wirst out of it´s natural position.
In my opinion, its fine that the banned turned in shifters. I mean it totally looks dorky if you dont use a proper flared handlebar. But they should also ban aero socks and aero helmet. Everything that looks dump should be banned :D
They're absolutely right, bikes started to look ridiculous with shifters tilting, these cyclists nowadays do not count their blessings, carbon frames, 12 speeds, or deep wheels...instead, they keep changing stuff just to look cool and different than the next guy, I bet some popular cool winner did it and everyone else follows! Bravo UCLA!
UCI can’t tell me what I can do with my bike.
im right there with you partner!!!
UCI is becoming the FIA…. Volumes of law and rules….
yea I mean they are trying to stay relevant and for saftey but who knows
If your hands "toe in", it's because your shoulders are internally rotated. They shouldn't be.
your arms hang down with the top of your thumb pointing directly symmetrical in front of you? I feel mire no matter how I stand strait up they cock in a little, It might just be my rolled in shoulders from my self conscious of my man tities but I know a lot of other riders I position on there bikes have a natural turn in as well
@@GCPerformance18 No, the top of the hands, across the knuckles, do point straight ahead. They weren't always like this. Took a lot of mobility and strength work. Years.
I don't like it at all