I got to watch Moe Norman do a clinic when I was really 8 years old and 12 years old where I live in Canada. It was incredible, he got the guy he was with too take blankets and set them out at varying distances and staggered all the way out too 250 Yards. He hit probably 75 balls and every time he would land the ball on the blanket. It was incredible how the ball went through the exact same "window pane" off the tee. He would vary his trajectory but could repeat down to the yard every shot he played. Over and over and over. He did play around with Shot Curvature just too show he could do it, but it tended to be large curves both directions, with the hook being quite high, and the fade being quite low. He mostly hit dead straight shots on a low boring trajectory. He was honestly similar to watching an Iron Byron swing machine in terms of Trajectory and Launch. I have seen many other pro's hit balls in practice and competition including the Presidents cup when it was being hosted in Canada. They did have much newer equipment and hit the ball much higher and much farther, but not a single player could repeat like the Great Moe Norman, whose equipment was far more penal and far more difficult to consistently repeat launch and ball flight. Just thought I would share. Cheers.
Great story thank you for sharing. I enjoy watching Mo it a shame I never got the chance to see him in person. I have not seen any video where it shows Moe's balls landing your explanation is great thank you. I am going to give his swing a go due to my lower back problems. Cheers
oddyseus91 did any go off line? Like how accurate was he really? Im just wondering do people exaggerate it or is he genuinely stupidly straight every single time
Those who CAN.....DO! Those who ..... CAN'T.....MODERATE! As if anyone could comment intelligently on the way Moe Norman's swing should have been. What a hoot. Moe was one in a billion. He swung his swing HIS WAY as Arnold Palmer used to say. And for my money, nobody in the entire history of the game could touch him. The man was a "virtuoso". R.I.P. Moe Norman.
Amazing footage of Moe - thanks for posting! Regarding the analyst: I see things like this in the world every day and keep my mouth closed, but sometimes it’s just too much. Commenting on Moe’s swing in such a manor is like telling Bach which notes he would have been better served placing in one of his fugues -beyond sacrilegious. “The composer would be better served placing a d# in measure five instead of a c# and so on…” By the time you have tinkered with this and that you have a disjointed peace of crap instead of something mysterious and glorious (and highly functional!). The critic has not even begun to fathom how it all connects together. There is not always something to say! People such as this “analyst” would be better served learning when to simply close their mouths and observe in the presence of a master.
This seems to be a good spot to share some thoughts about the PGA and the many ways in which they have ruined the game. Ernest Jones, a golf instructor who had lost a leg in WW I said that the key to attaining a good golf swing was NOT by analyzing and then trying to copy the swing of an expert. Rather, the key was to understand how the expert BECAME expert. Nothing truer ever spoken. Anyway, Mr. Jones wrote a book and is, in my opinion, the best ever. It was very short and it was only 40 pages, including photos, before he was done and then repeated the same thoughts again but using different ways to express the same thing. He felt that the best publisher would be golf related and took it to the PGA of America. They turned him down because, they said, that the book would have people teaching themselves and would put the PGA out of business! The business of the PGA, it seems to me, is to keep the average golfer paying for eternal golf lessons. Moe Norman taught himself. So, according to most PGA teachers, he is doing everything wrong but gets away with it because he has hit so many balls. Well, golf is just like any other physical endeavor. Repetition combined with common sense will be successful every time. There are hundreds of ways to hit a golf ball. Everyone is built and uses their mind in a different way. We all have to find our own swing and all it takes is repetition and a desire to improve. But, the PGA can't get rich off of that.
I agree to a considerable extent with your conclusion the PGA ruining the game of golf and certainly the quality of "instruction" plays a big part. The PGA is all about money .... period! Money for the PGA and it's members ... whether it's for the organization, the tour player or the club pro. Nothing else matters. So much so that I believe the future of the game in in serious jeopardy while the PGA and it's member count their money in the present. For the record however , Moe Norman did take lessons from a pro by the name of Lloyd Tucker out of Rockway Golf Club in Kitchener, Ontario, Canada. Mr. Tucker concurrently tutored Moe Norman; and prominent amateur golfers Gary Cowan and Gerry Kesselring. Gary Cowan won 2 U. S. Amateur titles. Mr. Tucker must have known something as these were three brilliant golfers. ( By the way; I was told that 1 stipulation that Mr. tucker gave to each of these players was that they were not to speak to each other as to the particulars he was instructing them individually.) I will say that most golf instructors and their instruction is a bunch of crap and their main goal seems to be to find some "schtick" with which to promote their "method". The big biggest danger to the future game from the PGA is their equating long drives and low scores with more TV viewers and interest in the game. Unfetter changes; in particular to the golf ball and the distance it flies, is ruining the game.
I'm sorry for taking so long to acknowledge your response but there was no notification sent to me. I like to look at a players statistics for whatever tournament they are playing. What I see is very disturbing. The main stat I have trouble with is that the player who leads the field has hit 45% of his fairways and 80% of the greens. They are bombing the ball all over the place and there is no penalty for doing so. That is not golf. That's Home Run Derby! Years ago, the courses I played were the old style courses. Not all that long but tricky with plenty of dog legs and hazards that were actually hazards. That has been reversed. The old courses are now the more difficult. Today, I see Dustin Johnson blast one 340 into the next fairway and it's a wedge to the green. No problemo. The sand traps are specially prepared by The PGA so that every ball ends up in the middle of the trap on a flat lie. Down the fairways they have "bowling alley kiddie bumpers" so that every errant shot is redirected back into the fairway. Their selling point is distance and nothing else. I don't watch golf much anymore. If I can't watch it because it is a fraud. It has gone from a sport to something more like professional "wrestling".
Moe's swing was the greatest teacher of all. Every moving and static part of it served to strike the ball purely and solidly with the expected and observed result. Todd Graves has got it down pat and not only understands its essence but also how to explain and convey it in an easy-to-follow manner. Moe was God's gift to golf because we all know that a golf course can be both heaven and hell.
24:15 He may need some improvement in set up, better alignment, and a slightly narrower stance? If Moe had followed that advice, he'd probably hit the ball like every other weekend hacker. The best ball striker in history didn't need a swing coach.
Six years ago I was recovering from major cancer issues! Today at age 67 I hit the ball straighter and longer then at any point in my golfing venture!! I owe it all to Moe! The back tees are in order on most courses, an upgrade in equipment may help. I use hockey tape to build up my grips. That will never change!! Having fun!!
Thanks for sharing James. I can never get tired watching Moe hit balls. I am amazed on how this golfer needs to do this to be in the image of this commenters ideal swing, but he illustrates what he needs to do, but oops, he just got in the perfect position. He needs to do this, oops he did it again, got into the perfect position again. Just shows that Moe has the perfect golf swing. Commenters illustrated lines just proves my point.
JamesNiblick - Thank You for the most important video of Moe Norman I've had the pleasure of viewing. I had not seen a slimmer, younger Moe prior to this video. The "qualified professional" commenting in the New England accent was simply icing on the cake. Thank you again James Niblick for the "mashie" or "spoon" version of Moe's swing.
Thank you for this wonderful footage! With all the reference points and lines, I can see Moe's perfect swing more clearly. I feel sorry for Moe for being affected negatively by the comments
+Ignatius Kok ...... My observation is that Moe was unbelievably sensitive. He felt that he didn't fit in with the "establishment norms" on the big tour ...... that he was being laughed at for the idiosyncrasies in his swing and his mannerisms. He would have accomplished an incredible record on the PGA tour if he could have overcome this.
This is a jewel . THANK YOU for sharing . And to all those who post ridiculous swings trying to mimic the genius: continue. It holds you and makes us laugh. RIP Moe , you were the only one .
Constructive criticism is vitally important for improvement, but did this critic ever win 55 tournaments in a career that included making 17 holes-in-one, 9 double-eagles, set so many course records in Canada, or score 59 at the age of 62, as Moe did? I agree with 'jamesniblick.' At 18:53 in the video, we see an important clue explaining how Moe Norman was able to be so consistently straight: his 'lateral' lunge creates a hand path in the downswing that is at the same height off the ground all the way from his right thigh to impact and even beyond impact. His level hands in his 'drag' from the left-side into the right-side during transition gives him his "longest down the line swing" in golf. All of us have interpreted Moe's "longest down the line' to mean the club-head's path, which as Wayne DeFrancesco points out, is a physical impossibility on an arc swing. This video may show that our interpretation of what Moe was describing is our error: he wasn't describing the club-head path. He was describing his hands' path, especially in a swing with minimum hip rotation going into impact.
Just prior to impact Don, his head is actually moving away from the target. He is applying centripetal force (at just the right time), which is in the opposite direction of club inertia, not moving toward the target. His "lateral lunge" (entirely due to a wide stance) got him there, but is not what created hand path through impact. He stopped and reversed his lateral move with upper mass, which is what snapped/lashed the club through the ball. He got his arms/wrists to impact square to their arc and at the right time. That indeed feels like the arms (trail esp) is extending down the line, which is what Norman surely felt.
Moe was a legend . Look At Bryson Dechambrue today . Hes already on par to be one of the greats and even simplified the golf swing even more by using one length clubs . I love swinging like Moe . Best swing ever . Way less effort for max results .
Hilarious video who is this guy that thinks he can help Moe Norman with his swing. Best striker off all times because he never listened to any these so called teachers. RIP Moe
I think I'll have people watch this especially children. So they can understand greatness is NOT always what they pros or experts think it is. I'm glad this very brave man decided to make this silly attempt to correct Moe so that we can all learn how Greatness will always be looked down on by some. This is much more than a golf lesson if you think about it.
Someone asked when the video was taken. As I recall, I received the video from Moe about 1984, so it was taken sometime before then; but not much before.
Applying a very standard golf swing evaluation programme to an exceptional golf swing. Interesting points made and highlight why most of us struggle with the game. I'd love to have seen Moe play!
I just started out playing golf, and want to be like Moe out of any golfer in history... i am going to buy some 1973 Spalding dy-nertia's off ebay, so when i'm out on the golf course i can be like my hero Moe
Wow, thank you James for sharing. Great video. Learned a lot from this and, yes, from some comments and dotted lines. Take what you need from it. We do not know the story behind this video. He is not putting down Moe. Some people don't seem to realize that it is not your analysis, :-) others criticize for the wrong reasons this evaluation work done a long time ago, without Flightscope, Internet and powerful software that we now have. Actually, I think this analyst is pretty good with the restricted tools and info they had a the time. His task was not to worship Moe, it was to show differences in the proven standards of the time. Kind of : "Do me a report on this player" How old is this video? At 17:20, he noticed the interesting hands path in and out that should lead to a reversed over the top (or over the bottom if i can say) but since he is sliding foward it creates that long path parallel to the ground before and after impact. His business zone. The opposite of Furyk in as succesful way. It shows well also the master move. And yes the analyst does not get all of it. Too new and revolutionary technic by Mr. Norman. All the great musicians and painters have been criticized by the experts of their era. Picasso, Van Gogh, Lautrec etc.. same for music. How many music experts did not get it with the Beatles when standards was Elvis( who also had to impose his style) , Paul Anka etc... I like people who broke the rule and have succeeded..
I do not recall exactly when Moe gave me this video but I reasonably certain that it was in the very early 1980's. Not certain how long before I received it from Moe that the video was taken but it could not have been too long before.
The commentator unwittingly revealed Moe's secret to a perfectly straight shot but was blissfully unaware of its significance:- "At the bottom of the swing a very un-usual feature, the hands are travelling on the same elevation for a very long distance, right through impact". The longer the club head stays straight horizontally along the bottom of the swing, the more chance of a straight shot being made.
4 years ago I noted: "At about 18.53 of the video you will see what in my opinion is the reason why Moe Norman had the most consistent straight ball flight in history. This is what you noted as well.
Yeah I have heard him say that in some of the videos. It depends a lot on your body type and what you are capable of repeating consistently. I found, at least for me, that stack and tilt was easier. I am still working on consistency but have seen major improvement.
@@61britchie Right on! Everyone is a unique individual and what may work for one person may not work another. Here's something interesting. Three great Canadian golfers; Moe Norman, Gary Cowan and Gerry Kesselring were all taught by the same immortal instructor by the name of Lloyd Tucker at Rockway Golf Club in Kitchener, Ontario, Canada. I was told by Moe that Mr. Tucker made them all promise to not disclose to each other what he was having each of them work on in there golf swing. The reason being that what I am telling you to work on is not for the others. The others have their own elements of their golf swing to work and I don't want their mind to be polluted. Would that there would be more golf instructors like Mr. Tucker.
You are awesome sir god bless you always I am following you here in Singapore and have been hitting so well will turn professional golfer this new year and will bring your teaching here as no one here does the way you do
I think the person evaluating was critical. Plus let's be honest.... All the 'shoulds' that the narrator talks about are gospel laws laid down by whom? Personally I think the results speak for themselves. What we should be doing is learning why Moe did what he did to make him the straightest and cleanest ball striker in the game.
You arr all a bunch of crazies! I personally took all the advice mentioned in this vid and the results were amazing. Out of 144 range balls, I did a perfect anti-Moe: not one went straight. Impossible, but true.
This video epitomizes everything wrong with conventional golf instruction. No wonder I have improved more in the last three weeks since discovering Moe Norman's swing through Todd Graves, after 15 years of confusion and struggle in trying to master the two-plane swing through "traditional" methods. Thank you jamesniblick for posting.
there's another video like this where the narrator actually tries to say that Moe aimed right and pulled the ball, he didn't just set the club way behind the ball, he turned the club behind the ball, his shoulders look like they're aimed right but he always hit the ball toward where his feet were lined up
Maybe, just maybe... the guy hitting it wherever he wants over and over again is aligning his swing just fine, thank you very much. If not at the time of filming, hopefully now.
+Pebble Beach Take a look at the UA-cam video: "Moe Norman shows his Master Move" I'm no expert but ........ Big lateral weight shift while keeping the right foot planted (Moe told me he was the only guy that would get grass stains on the inside of his right sock); big vertical drop and what he called the horizontal tug. (Note when he first shows the horizontal tug he does it with his left hand only and and later you can see that he resists the hands flipping over or a lot of rotation of the arms.)
"The hands are traveling on the same elevation for a VERY long time through impact." BOOM! Flat bottom of the swing and square club face to the path during that time, makes sense it went dead straight.
Guys I wouldn't go to hard on the guy doing the critical analysis. He was just trying to do his job and get paid. It's obvious he was trying to view Moe swing through a conventional swing analysis. Which isn't going to work. From a single plane type axis as we all know it's spot on as anybody would do it in the history of the game. I think if he went into the analysis with this knowledge he would be less critical at times. If he just said at the beginning of the video everything looks good, one he wouldn't get paid and two most likely this video would get lost in the shuffle. I have seen a lot of critical analysis type videos over the years and their all roughly the same.
I've hit balls at this same range many years ago in Florida. If you watch carefully, you'll see Moe is hitting balls in a 20 mph winds. The man was fearless!
Moe's consistency of keeping his head motionless is always that. Like you said in the beginning showing his head lifting and moving. Sometimes his head is completely motionless. And some days Moe couldn't strike the ball very well. All in all Moe's swing is and was way more effective and consitent than the backwards conventional status quo swing that only younger people can acheive. This swing is pure and simple and mostly brilliant! He was driving the ball as far at 65 as when he was 18. I have been adopting a swing like his and so far the ball strikes go farther and straighter than my traditional hard to do swing.
Aologize for late repy. Moe gave this to me and therefor I guess it's mine. As far as I am concerned you can use it however it might be nice if there was attribution.
How on earth is there not a single video of Moe playing a round in the Canadian open . Surely some where in a TV studio vault there is a tape . I just want to see Moe play a whole round of golf in a legit tournament .
The greatest ball striker in the history of golf, and the narrator is attempting to explain how Moe Norman could improve his swing. Moe Norman didn't need to improve his swing, his system was perfect for him. His results were the best in Golfing history. I've been studying Moe and incorporating his teachings in my own golf system, which has dramatically improved my game. Moe's greatest advice, believe in yourself, and find the system that works for you. My system isn't anywhere close to identical to Moe, but I am discovering his system of perfection and adapting that to my physical frame. Moe Norman the greatest Golfer who ever lived.
Obviously, with this imbecile doing the analysis doesn't realize is that although Moe's swing was "awkward looking" in the way that golf is conventionally taught, was anatomically perfect for striking a golf ball. It was Ben Hogan himself who once said… "There is no greater criticism of the golf swing then the flight of the ball"
Interesting all the changes the analyst is recommending while watching Moe hit straight shot after straight shot. There's always some authority figure that has to take control rather than accept what he sees. It's not in the PGA because the PGA used to have strict rules about what was taught. This will change over time. Even the analysts on the Golf channel acknowledged Moe had the most mechanically correct swing.
I've never seen criticism of Moe's swing because really there is no legitimate criticism of it. If anything in the world of golf comes closer to perfection than Moe's swing it is the machine Iron Byron. It is a true single plane swing. The 'analyst' in this video made no sense to me at all I myself endeavor to copy Moe's swing in my game, and if done correctly there is simply no better way to swing a golf club
Great Video!!!! Moe was incredibly straight, but also a shorter hitter. I read that he averaged 235 yards off the tee back 30 years ago. Wonder how far that would be today. Those teaching his swing limit hip and leg movement and I lost at least 25 yards off my drives and worked a lot with the Graves school who teaches his swing. Then a buddy asked me why I hit it so short now copying Moe. Then he told me about Bryson Dechambue who hits it far but uses his body so I tried it and immediately got back my distance. I also stand closer to the ball now and it is a godsend!!!! No way to hit it far standing so far away!!!
I watched Moe play a lot of golf and a lot when he was a senior. i can assure you his average drive was north of 235 yards .... probably 245 - 250. Remember this was back when Nicklaus (who was considered a long hitter in his day) was probably averaging 260 to 270. Andy Bean would have been about 275 - 280. It was a very tight spread in the range back in that era.
I guess average takes into account into the wind, uphill, no roll, etc. I remember him saying that he never tried to hit the ball far, only straight. I am not sure that Graves are teaching anything close to how Moe swung when he was younger. I have seen swings were he was up to parallel and it also looked like he used his body much more than they teach. Since I use my legs much more I gained a lot of distance. Keeping the right heel flat on the ground always felt foolish to me. Now I see why.
All I can say is that I watched Moe for more than 30 years in both practice, regular play and tournament play. He wasn't the longest hitter and his swing was certainly built primarily for accuracy; but he certainly was not overly short. As for this Graves golf thing, I don't know what they teach. It is my opinion that that they are a golf marketing company that are capitalizing on the Moe Norman name and the mystique associated with his swing and his prowess as one of the greatest ball strikers of all time. I can also tell you that they tried to get me to take this video down claiming some kind of copyright infringement. I will tell you that as far as I'm concerned, they can go to hell.
I have heard that Graves is bullying all those with Moe videos on youtube to remove them. They own the trademark "Moe Norman" and want to be the only one selling them. UA-cam cutting into their profit. I wasted tons of money on them and their schools only to hit the ball shorter, and less accurate. So unnatural what they teach. Half the schools are spent as a sales pitch for more useless training aids, clubs, and coaching service, etc......The should change their name to greedy golf academy.
I received an email from UA-cam's legal department asking me to take down this video due to a notice of some "rights" infringement. It took me a while to find out how to contact them, but finally was able to and advise them that whoever wanted me to take down this video could go to hell .... and if they wanted to pursue the matter they are welcome to sue me. Moe was a friend of mine and he gave me this video. Also Moe was a public figure. I don't know how good or how bad these Graves people are with their school and i don't care but they do not and never will own exclusive rights to his name and image. ...... Just one last very important point ..... Moe personally told me that he would never teach anyone to swing like he did ... take that for what it's worth.
what i think i see in moe's swing is with his wide stance and more distance from the ball he takes the body from getting in the way of the arm swing. kinda like a hockey slapshot.
great video of Moe but I don't think the narrator understands what moe was trying to achieve within his swing. Moe played in straight lines and didn't believe in hip turn. The narrator seemed to be wanting Moe to bemore traditional in his swing even though he had a lot of good things to say about the moes moves. also didn't realise Morgan Freeman knew so much about golf .
+Simon woodhouse You realize quickly that all this narrator is doing is looking at Moe's swing and positions in relation to position measurements taken of top golfer's of that time. However; Moe didn't swing like any of his contemporaries, (or anyone else for that matter) therefor the comparisons are of limited value. Moe's swing was built to hit straight shots.
Moe was proof of the importance of Impact, does not matter much how you get there (Ok, if you want to hit it far you do have to get there with some speed). No one says it but I think Moe's right hand coming back to the same position every time was a secret even he missed...
If Moe Norman had the social skills needed to play at the top, I think most professional teachers today would be teaching his swing because he would have been the Tiger Woods of his era. After reading the book about him, Feeling of Greatness, the Moe Norman Story, it's obvious he had problems that held him back despite the fact he was probably the best ball striker in Golf history.
Does this analyst realize he is criticizing a golf genius. I can see analysis but telling, probably, the greatest ball striker of all time what he is doing wrong is outrageous.
The narrator picks up on the level move through impact. Moe has mentioned the horizontal tug , I've yet to see or hear anyone explain how he did this over and over .
this video is the perfect example of the expert having no regard for the function of the swing! he's saying Moe should swing his hands less behind him and trace his club head on the same line and his address is too closed. fuck me the greatest ball striker ever and this guy dresses him down like a 30 handicapper
+James Wood I believe what you have to keep in mind is that all this so called "expert" is doing is to compare Moe's swing to the "narrow band of measurements" (my quote) of the top golfers of the day ......and of course, Moe's swing did not at all fall into the norm of the day, so it makes this analysis of little conventional use .....I believe it is however useful to help to understand Moe's swing.
Agree 100% with that: Mo must have been proud of it in some way if he was willing to share it with another - you must have been close. And he should be proud; show me another analysis from the same stable and I doubt it would have similar kudos. Thanks for sharing
Where do I start? I write this not just as an answer your post, but also to provide some observations and hopefully some insight into the amazing golfer named Moe Norman. I'm sure sure that I wasn't the closest to Moe, however I was able to gain his trust and get closer to him than most. I was around Moe with a group of pro golfers for maybe 7 or 8 years before this trust developed. (I won't do it now; but if anyone is interested, I can related how this trust was gained ... I think it's also an insight into Moe's character). Moe was great around children but he had distrust of almost all adults; particularly those he did not know. Something must have happened to Moe to create this distrust as it was almost palpable in watching him interact with adults. As to Moe being proud of his swing and therefor sharing the video ..... I believe he was proud of his swing, but there was always a hint of some insecurity about his golf. Watch other videos of Moe and you will hear him state how only he a a few others had found the "greatness" and had great swings. My observation was that he had a small area of doubt and insecurity and was maybe making these statements of his greatness to convince himself 100% or to seek the validation of others. Fact is that in my opinion he did, in fact, have one of the greatest golf swing ever.
James, thanks again for all this. I think this is the best video of Moe out there, purely because the overlay of conventional analysis points up the distinctive aspects of his swing which made him the best ball striker ever. I'm looking forward to hitting the range with what I've picked up - my game has even improved on the course in the meantime just from adopting a smidge of what I can see here. As you are someone with close contact with Moe, I would encourage you to expand on how you got to know him and anything there is to say that would elaborate on his character - he was certainly some character. By the by, it strikes me that the analyst in the video probably had no idea who Moe was or anything about him and was just giving a stock review of what he thought was some average golfer's swing; by the end of the video he has certainly reached the conclusion that there is an interesting methodology going on, and it's odds on that he has no idea where the ball is going due to the poor quality of the (rather ancient by today's standards) video.
Just to possibly provide some further insight into Moe's personality; ..... I used to practice at a driving range and got to know and hang around with all of the pros there. Moe frequently practiced there and often a group of us would hang around and just talk golf. For as many as 8 or 9 years I never spoke to Moe 1 on 1; it was always in a group situation. Moe eventually got used to seeing me and gained some comfort level with me and one day it was just Moe and me and we got to talking about the golf swing. At some point Moe described his view on some part of the golf swing. For the life of me I cannot remember what the details were; however, I remember with great clarity what followed. What ever it was that he described; what he said and how he described it, I had never heard before. I remember my reaction was to shake my head an give a small laugh only because I was amazed at what he said and how it said it. Moe's reaction to my reaction was to say; "see ..... just like everyone else, you're laughing at me". I responded the following:" Moe .... I wasn't laughing at you ..... I far too much respect for you and your knowledge of the golf swing to ever laugh at you. It's just that I've never heard that part of the swing described like that and yet it makes perfect sense". From that day on we were a lot more like "friends".
you can see a counter fall which is his real secret. you hit with body mass instead of arm speed. go to gravity golf which explains it all. you make your body off balance in which your back falls forward and is balanced by the swinging of the club.
No, the analysis is pretty good. His swing is oddball and unique and should not be copied. The only point worth consideration is placing the clubhead well behind the ball at address which prevents an "inside" or "outside" takeaway path. Tales about Moe Norman get taller and taller to the point of absurdity. I have a few of my own. If you can't beat 'em, might as well join 'em, so here goes..... Moe would land a ball on a tee .... from 250 yards .... in a wind ... while blindfolded. On another occasion he deliberately bounced a ball off a rabbits' head at such an angle it went into the hole ... all while the rabbit was scampering. Also notable was his "bridge shot" ... when he decided to land it on the hand rail to cross a stream. "Pest control" once hired Moe to clear a golf course of gophers. He stood on each tee and waited for the gophers to show, then launched his drive to deal with them. Of course, he only need a single bucket of balls to clear the course of all the pests. His drives would normally fly 400 yards .... but he cut his swing down so that he could hit half a million balls a day instead of 250 thousand. Also at 400 yards, he started missing the hoop now and again ... so reining in his distance in to a mere 270 yards enabled him to consistently drop the ball into a jam jar. Most famously though, was when Lee Van Cleef, Clint Eastwood and Moe assembled on a shooting range. LVC took out his "Sabata" derringer, fired that bullet out of the butt and scored a perfect bull at 100 yards. Clint took out his Magnum 45, and from the hip bettered that at 200 yards. Moe casually popped his ball on a tee, took a deep breath and split a target at 500 yards. It was a no contest. What made these feats all the more remarkable was that he never cleaned his club-faces. Of course, he never miss-hit a ball in his entire life .... .. honest. The only thing he didn't do however, was to make any significant impact at the very top of professional golf (here he is referred to as the player, and NOT clearly not revered!), but hey, this is the internet, so I'm sure we can muster up a conspiracy theory about that ....
Here is a response that I made about 6 years ago. Think it's accurate as to timeline. ......Someone asked when the video was taken. As I recall, I received the video from Moe about 1984, so it was taken sometime before then; but not much before.
@@jamesniblick Looks about right. He would be maybe 55 or a year or two less then. That's near the end of his Senior Championships. Canadian PGA Seniors' Championship winner (1979-1985, 1987). I wonder what happened in 1986? Maybe he got bored or let someone else win?
@@robertbrown7470 I was there watching Moe win what I believe was the Ontario CPGA Seniors at Brampton Golf & Country Club ..... I think he won 6 or 7 in a row. Many fond memories of Moe on and off thr golf course.
What is correct or incorrect? It's all a matter of preference. Fundamentals or conventionality don't automatically produce results. All that matters is the scorecard.
This has to be a satire. This guy doesn't really think he can improve most perfect swing of greatest ball sticker in history, does he. But, was great video and diagram of Moe's perfect swing.
Although his swing might have been awkward LOOKING in the eyes of today's mindless teachers of the game, the swing of the amazing Moe Norman was anatomically perfect. Ben Hogan once said… "There is no greater criticism to the golf swing than the flight of the ball."
He's got know idea how moe got square so early in the down swing. Quite good foot action indeed...lmao the best ever I hope moe got to see this so he could have a good laugh..
Jamesniblick do you think that you think that all these wrongs you feel need to be corrected when speaking of possibly the purest striker of the ball the world has seen? I guess you'd change Jim Furyk, Lee Trevino, Miller Barber, Aoki, Matthew Wolf , John Daley, Jordan Spieth...... All these players have nonconforming aspects to there swings but would they have been better with swing changes that fall into what's considered acceptable swing positions? Honestly I think not. Is there one swing, setup, grip, posture, fit all golf swing. Whatever way a golfer can get the club on plane in the hitting position seems to be something all the aforementioned do but in different ways but do it exceptionally.
I don't think you understand that I am not the person making the comments in the video .....this not my analysis. If you read the full description you'll learn more about my connection Moe and how I came by and finally digitized and uploaded it to UA-cam.
@@jamesniblick my bad for directing that at you if you were not commentating that said whoever commentating and providing analysis has lost their way.. not in their technical mythology but Improvement on such pedigreed players.
@@johnnyboy4me It's OK. you're not the first to make that assumption. Also ..... at least you're decent enough to own up. I watched and was with Moe a lot. I was fortunate to witness one of the greatest ball strikers of all time and I would never dare to criticize his swing or his method. You don't fool with what would be considered near perfection in a sport where perfection can never be attained by any mere mortal.
You need to take into consideration the angle of the camera and the angle of the ball flight. Your analysis is already faulty and I'm only 4 and a half minutes into the video. Had the camera been parallel to the line of flight of the ball, you would see a different and more obvious motion. Like hogan, both stand slightly open to the target, and the shoulder rotation is parallel to the ball flight. Think before you make assumptions about Moe's swing
+Evan James First of all this is not my analysis of Moe's swing. If you would have read the description you would know that this a copy of a tape that Moe gave to me that happened to be an analysis by someone else. I think the name of the entity/company doing the analysis is named in the beginning of the tape. Perhaps, if you are so inclined, you can look them up (if they still exist) and give them shit. Don't blame me if you don't like what you see ...... I just thought I would finally share this video on UA-cam.
After many years there is now a NEW novel out on Moe Norman! SEND IN THE CLOWN available on Amazon and Kindle. www.amazon.ca/s?k=andrew%20stelmack Moe's story as never told before. Check it out!
It's comical listening to suggested changes to the swing of the greatest ball striker of all time. If Moe made any of these changes his swing would be less than 100% perfect. Jim Crowley
Of course I'm going to agree on the effectiveness of his swing. The term "greatest" would always be debatable and the term could always be subject to interpretation. All I can say is I don't know if you ever saw Moe hit balls or play. I spent many hours watching Moe hitting balls and playing golf and I suspect a lot of people that have would say he had one of the greatest swings ever. In fact, Ken Venturi is reported to have said that Moe's swing was better overall than Hogan's
Hahaha. Listen to this narrator. He's trying to nit pick a swing that hit the ball dead straight on target every time. Haha. Everything he said he should do should be something he should teach. What a crock video. Get an amateur that's not one of the greatest ball striker That ever lived eh.
I apologize but I'm a little annoyed that people don't read my comments at the time I posted this Video. People keep making comments thinking that I am the person that took the video and narrating the analysis of Moe's swing. Once again; for the record, Moe was a friend of my and gave this on video tape. I finally digitized it and put it on UA-cam to share for fans of Moe If you want to critized the analyst, feel free to look him up and direct your comments to him..
Steve .... I get more than just a little pissed off with people giving me shit because they think that I'm the commentator in this video. If you would have read the accompanying information you would know that Moe was a friend of mine and he gave me this video of someone elses analysis of his swing. Also, if you would watch the entire video and listen to the commentator closely you might cut him some slack as he explains the perameters of his video analysis. He makes comparisons to other golfers most of who have conventional golf swings ..... Moe's golf swing was unconventional so obviously it would deviate for the from those norms.
As we know the media always think that they know everything But actually knows nothing This bloke talks a lot off rubbish He was and will always be the best striker off the gholf ball ever lived You should become a teacher seeing you know nothing about gholf So Here we go Altogether know 1 2 3
Your analysis is done in the wrong plane. Moe swung on a single plane, that’s not the shoulders to the ball. It’s from the club shaft up through his right arm and out the mid back. Because you drew it too high, it gives a false sense of positions. If moe took your advice and changed his feet and address, he wouldn’t be swinging on a single plane and would hit like shit frankly.
Please! .... Pease! ..... Please! ..... read my description. I am NOT the person doing the analysis of Moe's swing. Moe was a friend of mine and he gave me this video. I finally digitized it to share with fans & those interested in Moe. I did not make the original video and I am not the person doing the commentary and the analysis of Moe's swing.
@@jamesniblick my apologies! That’s amazing he was a friend of yours. Despite the frustrations the comments have with the analyzer, it’s wonderful to have the footage of Moe. Thanks for sharing
@@Thegooob95 I practiced at a place called Pleasure Park driving range just north of Toronto beginning in the early 1970's. I was there so often that I got to know all of the pros and was frequently in group discussions with Moe. It was probably 3 or 4 years before he became comfortable being around me ( Moe was very wary of people he didn't know ). One day we were talking about the golf swing and he described something in the golf swing in a manner that I had never heard before (for the life of me I cannot remember precisely what aspect of the swing we were discussing). I remember chuckling because he described the swing in a way I had never heard before. Moe then said to me: "see you're laughing at me ..... eveyone laughs at me!" I just remember saying that I wasn't and would never laugh at him because I had too much respect for him ..... I just chuckled because he described the swing in a way i had never heard before and yet it made so much sense. From that day on he trusted me and we somewhat became friends. We traded gold clubs and I still have a coupke of Moe's drivers.
This critique of Moe's swing is very irritating. This donkey knocks almost every part of the swing as if that is what matters and where the ball goes does not. This is an obvious attempt by The PGA to keep their monopoly on golf swing technique. Their intent was to keep you coming back for endless "lessons" and endless equipment purchases. The PGA is a business for profit and it not at all concerned with the average golfer other than to empty their wallets. All MY OPINION, of course.
He was a hack driving range player, never won a PGA TOUR event, never Made the cut at the Masters, never accomplished what many great players did with a conventional swing...over valued.
moe has 35 course records 59 5 or 6 times 55 tour wins in canada if moe wanted to play full time in the states he would have won 150 times 5 or6 us open s at least all you had to do is watch him hit one shot and you would know this guy was in the hogan category of excellence
I got to watch Moe Norman do a clinic when I was really 8 years old and 12 years old where I live in Canada. It was incredible, he got the guy he was with too take blankets and set them out at varying distances and staggered all the way out too 250 Yards.
He hit probably 75 balls and every time he would land the ball on the blanket. It was incredible how the ball went through the exact same "window pane" off the tee. He would vary his trajectory but could repeat down to the yard every shot he played. Over and over and over.
He did play around with Shot Curvature just too show he could do it, but it tended to be large curves both directions, with the hook being quite high, and the fade being quite low. He mostly hit dead straight shots on a low boring trajectory. He was honestly similar to watching an Iron Byron swing machine in terms of Trajectory and Launch.
I have seen many other pro's hit balls in practice and competition including the Presidents cup when it was being hosted in Canada. They did have much newer equipment and hit the ball much higher and much farther, but not a single player could repeat like the Great Moe Norman, whose equipment was far more penal and far more difficult to consistently repeat launch and ball flight. Just thought I would share. Cheers.
oddyseus91 mr. odd 21 may I ask how many yards could Moe Norman hit the golf ball
Great story thank you for sharing. I enjoy watching Mo it a shame I never got the chance to see him in person. I have not seen any video where it shows Moe's balls landing your explanation is great thank you. I am going to give his swing a go due to my lower back problems. Cheers
Thanks!!!for sharing your Story with a great Moe! excellent! 🏌🏾♂️
oddyseus91 did any go off line? Like how accurate was he really? Im just wondering do people exaggerate it or is he genuinely stupidly straight every single time
@@crystaldavis6169 Moe was not caught up in distance. He had multiple 59's from pure accuracy and consistancy.
Those who CAN.....DO! Those who ..... CAN'T.....MODERATE! As if anyone could comment intelligently on the way Moe Norman's swing should have been. What a hoot. Moe was one in a billion. He swung his swing HIS WAY as Arnold Palmer used to say. And for my money, nobody in the entire history of the game could touch him. The man was a "virtuoso". R.I.P. Moe Norman.
Right, very laughable. I wonder if he ever found out how wrong he was.
moe changed his swing many times
Amazing footage of Moe - thanks for posting!
Regarding the analyst: I see things like this in the world every day and keep my mouth closed, but sometimes it’s just too much. Commenting on Moe’s swing in such a manor is like telling Bach which notes he would have been better served placing in one of his fugues -beyond sacrilegious. “The composer would be better served placing a d# in measure five instead of a c# and so on…” By the time you have tinkered with this and that you have a disjointed peace of crap instead of something mysterious and glorious (and highly functional!). The critic has not even begun to fathom how it all connects together. There is not always something to say! People such as this “analyst” would be better served learning when to simply close their mouths and observe in the presence of a master.
We all love Moe.
This seems to be a good spot to share some thoughts about the PGA and the many ways in which they have ruined the game. Ernest Jones, a golf instructor who had lost a leg in WW I said that the key to attaining a good golf swing was NOT by analyzing and then trying to copy the swing of an expert. Rather, the key was to understand how the expert BECAME expert. Nothing truer ever spoken. Anyway, Mr. Jones wrote a book and is, in my opinion, the best ever. It was very short and it was only 40 pages, including photos, before he was done and then repeated the same thoughts again but using different ways to express the same thing. He felt that the best publisher would be golf related and took it to the PGA of America. They turned him down because, they said, that the book would have people teaching themselves and would put the PGA out of business! The business of the PGA, it seems to me, is to keep the average golfer paying for eternal golf lessons. Moe Norman taught himself. So, according to most PGA teachers, he is doing everything wrong but gets away with it because he has hit so many balls. Well, golf is just like any other physical endeavor. Repetition combined with common sense will be successful every time. There are hundreds of ways to hit a golf ball. Everyone is built and uses their mind in a different way. We all have to find our own swing and all it takes is repetition and a desire to improve. But, the PGA can't get rich off of that.
I agree to a considerable extent with your conclusion the PGA ruining the game of golf and certainly the quality of "instruction" plays a big part.
The PGA is all about money .... period! Money for the PGA and it's members ... whether it's for the organization, the tour player or the club pro. Nothing else matters. So much so that I believe the future of the game in in serious jeopardy while the PGA and it's member count their money in the present.
For the record however , Moe Norman did take lessons from a pro by the name of Lloyd Tucker out of Rockway Golf Club in Kitchener, Ontario, Canada. Mr. Tucker concurrently tutored Moe Norman; and prominent amateur golfers Gary Cowan and Gerry Kesselring. Gary Cowan won 2 U. S. Amateur titles. Mr. Tucker must have known something as these were three brilliant golfers. ( By the way; I was told that 1 stipulation that Mr. tucker gave to each of these players was that they were not to speak to each other as to the particulars he was instructing them individually.)
I will say that most golf instructors and their instruction is a bunch of crap and their main goal seems to be to find some "schtick" with which to promote their "method".
The big biggest danger to the future game from the PGA is their equating long drives and low scores with more TV viewers and interest in the game. Unfetter changes; in particular to the golf ball and the distance it flies, is ruining the game.
I'm sorry for taking so long to acknowledge your response but there was no notification sent to me.
I like to look at a players statistics for whatever tournament they are playing. What I see is very disturbing. The main stat I have trouble with is that the player who leads the field has hit 45% of his fairways and 80% of the greens. They are bombing the ball all over the place and there is no penalty for doing so. That is not golf. That's Home Run Derby! Years ago, the courses I played were the old style courses. Not all that long but tricky with plenty of dog legs and hazards that were actually hazards. That has been reversed. The old courses are now the more difficult. Today, I see Dustin Johnson blast one 340 into the next fairway and it's a wedge to the green. No problemo. The sand traps are specially prepared by The PGA so that every ball ends up in the middle of the trap on a flat lie. Down the fairways they have "bowling alley kiddie bumpers" so that every errant shot is redirected back into the fairway. Their selling point is distance and nothing else. I don't watch golf much anymore. If I can't watch it because it is a fraud. It has gone from a sport to something more like professional "wrestling".
Moe's swing was the greatest teacher of all. Every moving and static part of it served to strike the ball purely and solidly with the expected and observed result. Todd Graves has got it down pat and not only understands its essence but also how to explain and convey it in an easy-to-follow manner. Moe was God's gift to golf because we all know that a golf course can be both heaven and hell.
24:15 He may need some improvement in set up, better alignment, and a slightly narrower stance? If Moe had followed that advice, he'd probably hit the ball like every other weekend hacker. The best ball striker in history didn't need a swing coach.
Six years ago I was recovering from major cancer issues! Today at age 67 I hit the ball straighter and longer then at any point in my golfing venture!! I owe it all to Moe! The back tees are in order on most courses, an upgrade in equipment may help. I use hockey tape to build up my grips. That will never change!! Having fun!!
By the way, Moe used electrical tape to build up his grips. I've watched him do it.
@@jamesniblick I would be intesting in what size of grips I should I use, I use medium gloves.
Thanks for sharing James. I can never get tired watching Moe hit balls.
I am amazed on how this golfer needs to do this to be in the image of this commenters ideal swing, but he illustrates what he needs to do, but oops, he just got in the perfect position. He needs to do this, oops he did it again, got into the perfect position again.
Just shows that Moe has the perfect golf swing. Commenters illustrated lines just proves my point.
JamesNiblick - Thank You for the most important video of Moe Norman I've had the pleasure of viewing. I had not seen a slimmer, younger Moe prior to this video. The "qualified professional" commenting in the New England accent was simply icing on the cake. Thank you again James Niblick for the "mashie" or "spoon" version of Moe's swing.
Thank you for this wonderful footage! With all the reference points and lines, I can see Moe's perfect swing more clearly. I feel sorry for Moe for being affected negatively by the comments
+Ignatius Kok ...... My observation is that Moe was unbelievably sensitive. He felt that he didn't fit in with the "establishment norms" on the big tour ...... that he was being laughed at for the idiosyncrasies in his swing and his mannerisms. He would have accomplished an incredible record on the PGA tour if he could have overcome this.
Appreciate the footage! The commentary though says more about the commentator than of Moe...
This is a jewel . THANK YOU for sharing . And to all those who post ridiculous swings trying to mimic the genius: continue. It holds you and makes us laugh. RIP Moe , you were the only one .
Constructive criticism is vitally important for improvement, but did this critic ever win 55 tournaments in a career that included making 17 holes-in-one, 9 double-eagles, set so many course records in Canada, or score 59 at the age of 62, as Moe did? I agree with 'jamesniblick.' At 18:53 in the video, we see an important clue explaining how Moe Norman was able to be so consistently straight: his 'lateral' lunge creates a hand path in the downswing that is at the same height off the ground all the way from his right thigh to impact and even beyond impact. His level hands in his 'drag' from the left-side into the right-side during transition gives him his "longest down the line swing" in golf. All of us have interpreted Moe's "longest down the line' to mean the club-head's path, which as Wayne DeFrancesco points out, is a physical impossibility on an arc swing. This video may show that our interpretation of what Moe was describing is our error: he wasn't describing the club-head path. He was describing his hands' path, especially in a swing with minimum hip rotation going into impact.
Just prior to impact Don, his head is actually moving away from the target. He is applying centripetal force (at just the right time), which is in the opposite direction of club inertia, not moving toward the target. His "lateral lunge" (entirely due to a wide stance) got him there, but is not what created hand path through impact. He stopped and reversed his lateral move with upper mass, which is what snapped/lashed the club through the ball. He got his arms/wrists to impact square to their arc and at the right time. That indeed feels like the arms (trail esp) is extending down the line, which is what Norman surely felt.
Moe was a legend . Look At Bryson Dechambrue today . Hes already on par to be one of the greats and even simplified the golf swing even more by using one length clubs . I love swinging like Moe . Best swing ever . Way less effort for max results .
dechambeuas swing is nonsense
Hilarious video who is this guy that thinks he can help Moe Norman with his swing. Best striker off all times because he never listened to any these so called teachers. RIP Moe
Nailed it.
@@sweetswing1 Takes all kinds to make a golf world.
I think I'll have people watch this especially children. So they can understand greatness is NOT always what they pros or experts think it is. I'm glad this very brave man decided to make this silly attempt to correct Moe so that we can all learn how Greatness will always be looked down on by some. This is much more than a golf lesson if you think about it.
The best video analysis of moe Norman swing,I have seen till date
Someone asked when the video was taken. As I recall, I received the video from Moe about 1984, so it was taken sometime before then; but not much before.
Thank you for posting this video James. Some great angles both head on and down the line showcasing Moe's brilliance.
Applying a very standard golf swing evaluation programme to an exceptional golf swing. Interesting points made and highlight why most of us struggle with the game. I'd love to have seen Moe play!
I just started out playing golf, and want to be like Moe out of any golfer in history... i am going to buy some 1973 Spalding dy-nertia's off ebay, so when i'm out on the golf course i can be like my hero Moe
tell me how that goes ..im sure terrible
why dont u go for gutta percha then u can play like vardon,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,driver 180
Wow, thank you James for sharing. Great video.
Learned a lot from this and, yes, from some comments and dotted lines. Take what you need from it. We do not know the story behind this video. He is not putting down Moe.
Some people don't seem to realize that it is not your analysis, :-) others criticize for the wrong reasons this evaluation work done a long time ago, without Flightscope, Internet and powerful software that we now have. Actually, I think this analyst is pretty good with the restricted tools and info they had a the time. His task was not to worship Moe, it was to show differences in the proven standards of the time. Kind of : "Do me a report on this player"
How old is this video?
At 17:20, he noticed the interesting hands path in and out that should lead to a reversed over the top (or over the bottom if i can say) but since he is sliding foward it creates that long path parallel to the ground before and after impact. His business zone.
The opposite of Furyk in as succesful way.
It shows well also the master move. And yes the analyst does not get all of it. Too new and revolutionary technic by Mr. Norman.
All the great musicians and painters have been criticized by the experts of their era.
Picasso, Van Gogh, Lautrec etc.. same for music. How many music experts did not get it with the Beatles when standards was Elvis( who also had to impose his style) , Paul Anka etc...
I like people who broke the rule and have succeeded..
I do not recall exactly when Moe gave me this video but I reasonably certain that it was in the very early 1980's. Not certain how long before I received it from Moe that the video was taken but it could not have been too long before.
Did Moe have the video comments present, or is this your own addition?
The commentator unwittingly revealed Moe's secret to a perfectly straight shot but was blissfully unaware of its significance:-
"At the bottom of the swing a very un-usual feature, the hands are travelling on the same elevation for a very long distance, right through impact".
The longer the club head stays straight horizontally along the bottom of the swing, the more chance of a straight shot being made.
4 years ago I noted: "At about 18.53 of the video you will see what in my opinion is the reason why Moe Norman had the most consistent straight ball flight in history.
This is what you noted as well.
Moe also tells us this in his video for accepting a reward or being aknowleddged as the greatest ball striker ever.
Moe was the most consistent and accurate ball striker ever to play the game. This guy could take lessons from him.
I agree!
@@jamesniblick I personally.found Moe's system hard on my.back so I switched to stack and tilt and am more accurate than I have been in years.
@@61britchie I was somewhat of a friend with Moe and he told quite frankly that he did not recommend that golfers try to swing just like him.
Yeah I have heard him say that in some of the videos. It depends a lot on your body type and what you are capable of repeating consistently. I found, at least for me, that stack and tilt was easier. I am still working on consistency but have seen major improvement.
@@61britchie Right on! Everyone is a unique individual and what may work for one person may not work another.
Here's something interesting. Three great Canadian golfers; Moe Norman, Gary Cowan and Gerry Kesselring were all taught by the same immortal instructor by the name of Lloyd Tucker at Rockway Golf Club in Kitchener, Ontario, Canada. I was told by Moe that Mr. Tucker made them all promise to not disclose to each other what he was having each of them work on in there golf swing. The reason being that what I am telling you to work on is not for the others. The others have their own elements of their golf swing to work and I don't want their mind to be polluted.
Would that there would be more golf instructors like Mr. Tucker.
You are awesome sir god bless you always I am following you here in Singapore and have been hitting so well will turn professional golfer this new year and will bring your teaching here as no one here does the way you do
I think the person evaluating was critical. Plus let's be honest.... All the 'shoulds' that the narrator talks about are gospel laws laid down by whom? Personally I think the results speak for themselves. What we should be doing is learning why Moe did what he did to make him the straightest and cleanest ball striker in the game.
This is gold. Thank you!
You arr all a bunch of crazies! I personally took all the advice mentioned in this vid and the results were amazing. Out of 144 range balls, I did a perfect anti-Moe: not one went straight. Impossible, but true.
This video epitomizes everything wrong with conventional golf instruction. No wonder I have improved more in the last three weeks since discovering Moe Norman's swing through Todd Graves, after 15 years of confusion and struggle in trying to master the two-plane swing through "traditional" methods. Thank you jamesniblick for posting.
there's another video like this where the narrator actually tries to say that Moe aimed right and pulled the ball, he didn't just set the club way behind the ball, he turned the club behind the ball, his shoulders look like they're aimed right but he always hit the ball toward where his feet were lined up
Maybe, just maybe... the guy hitting it wherever he wants over and over again is aligning his swing just fine, thank you very much.
If not at the time of filming, hopefully now.
At about 18.53 of the video you will see what in my opinion is the reason why Moe Norman had the most consistent straight ball flight in history.
Amazing @ 18:53 ... how the heck does he do that ?
+Pebble Beach Take a look at the UA-cam video: "Moe Norman shows his Master Move" I'm no expert but ........ Big lateral weight shift while keeping the right foot planted (Moe told me he was the only guy that would get grass stains on the inside of his right sock); big vertical drop and what he called the horizontal tug. (Note when he first shows the horizontal tug he does it with his left hand only and and later you can see that he resists the hands flipping over or a lot of rotation of the arms.)
"The hands are traveling on the same elevation for a VERY long time through impact."
BOOM!
Flat bottom of the swing and square club face to the path during that time, makes sense it went dead straight.
Guys I wouldn't go to hard on the guy doing the critical analysis. He was just trying to do his job and get paid. It's obvious he was trying to view Moe swing through a conventional swing analysis. Which isn't going to work. From a single plane type axis as we all know it's spot on as anybody would do it in the history of the game. I think if he went into the analysis with this knowledge he would be less critical at times. If he just said at the beginning of the video everything looks good, one he wouldn't get paid and two most likely this video would get lost in the shuffle. I have seen a lot of critical analysis type videos over the years and their all roughly the same.
Exactly!
I've hit balls at this same range many years ago in Florida. If you watch carefully, you'll see Moe is hitting balls in a 20 mph winds. The man was fearless!
Moe's consistency of keeping his head motionless is always that. Like you said in the beginning showing his head lifting and moving. Sometimes his head is completely motionless. And some days Moe couldn't strike the ball very well. All in all Moe's swing is and was way more effective and consitent than the backwards conventional status quo swing that only younger people can acheive. This swing is pure and simple and mostly brilliant! He was driving the ball as far at 65 as when he was 18. I have been adopting a swing like his and so far the ball strikes go farther and straighter than my traditional hard to do swing.
I have the same experience of hitting it further and straighter with Moe's swing after a week
When could Moe ever not strike the ball very well?
Classic Moe....purple pants and an orange shirt. Most efficient swing ever, RIP Moe
Gosh, just think how good a ball striker Moe Norman would have been if he'd had this so-called instructor to teach him!
Halarious😄😄😄 To bad Moe didn't have him😂
Lol I know who is this clown doing the critiquing ?
Thank you for sharing this ; who owns this ? Could I use for my moe Norman documentary? Cheers
Aologize for late repy. Moe gave this to me and therefor I guess it's mine. As far as I am concerned you can use it however it might be nice if there was attribution.
Obviously, they were not watching where the ball is going.
How on earth is there not a single video of Moe playing a round in the Canadian open . Surely some where in a TV studio vault there is a tape . I just want to see Moe play a whole round of golf in a legit tournament .
The greatest ball striker in the history of golf, and the narrator is attempting to explain how Moe Norman could improve his swing. Moe Norman didn't need to improve his swing, his system was perfect for him. His results were the best in Golfing history. I've been studying Moe and incorporating his teachings in my own golf system, which has dramatically improved my game. Moe's greatest advice, believe in yourself, and find the system that works for you. My system isn't anywhere close to identical to Moe, but I am discovering his system of perfection and adapting that to my physical frame. Moe Norman the greatest Golfer who ever lived.
Obviously, with this imbecile doing the analysis doesn't realize is that although Moe's swing was "awkward looking" in the way that golf is conventionally taught, was anatomically perfect for striking a golf ball. It was Ben Hogan himself who once said… "There is no greater criticism of the golf swing then the flight of the ball"
Hola, donde podría encontrar material de la técnica de Moe Norman en español?
Interesting all the changes the analyst is recommending while watching Moe hit straight shot after straight shot. There's always some authority figure that has to take control rather than accept what he sees. It's not in the PGA because the PGA used to have strict rules about what was taught. This will change over time. Even the analysts on the Golf channel acknowledged Moe had the most mechanically correct swing.
"Authority figure"... he wishes
I've never seen criticism of Moe's swing because really there is no legitimate criticism of it. If anything in the world of golf comes closer to perfection than Moe's swing it is the machine Iron Byron. It is a true single plane swing. The 'analyst' in this video made no sense to me at all I myself endeavor to copy Moe's swing in my game, and if done correctly there is simply no better way to swing a golf club
Great Video!!!! Moe was incredibly straight, but also a shorter hitter. I read that he averaged 235 yards off the tee back 30 years ago. Wonder how far that would be today. Those teaching his swing limit hip and leg movement and I lost at least 25 yards off my drives and worked a lot with the Graves school who teaches his swing. Then a buddy asked me why I hit it so short now copying Moe. Then he told me about Bryson Dechambue who hits it far but uses his body so I tried it and immediately got back my distance. I also stand closer to the ball now and it is a godsend!!!! No way to hit it far standing so far away!!!
I watched Moe play a lot of golf and a lot when he was a senior. i can assure you his average drive was north of 235 yards .... probably 245 - 250. Remember this was back when Nicklaus (who was considered a long hitter in his day) was probably averaging 260 to 270. Andy Bean would have been about 275 - 280. It was a very tight spread in the range back in that era.
I guess average takes into account into the wind, uphill, no roll, etc. I remember him saying that he never tried to hit the ball far, only straight. I am not sure that Graves are teaching anything close to how Moe swung when he was younger. I have seen swings were he was up to parallel and it also looked like he used his body much more than they teach. Since I use my legs much more I gained a lot of distance. Keeping the right heel flat on the ground always felt foolish to me. Now I see why.
All I can say is that I watched Moe for more than 30 years in both practice, regular play and tournament play. He wasn't the longest hitter and his swing was certainly built primarily for accuracy; but he certainly was not overly short.
As for this Graves golf thing, I don't know what they teach. It is my opinion that that they are a golf marketing company that are capitalizing on the Moe Norman name and the mystique associated with his swing and his prowess as one of the greatest ball strikers of all time.
I can also tell you that they tried to get me to take this video down claiming some kind of copyright infringement. I will tell you that as far as I'm concerned, they can go to hell.
I have heard that Graves is bullying all those with Moe videos on youtube to remove them. They own the trademark "Moe Norman" and want to be the only one selling them. UA-cam cutting into their profit. I wasted tons of money on them and their schools only to hit the ball shorter, and less accurate. So unnatural what they teach. Half the schools are spent as a sales pitch for more useless training aids, clubs, and coaching service, etc......The should change their name to greedy golf academy.
I received an email from UA-cam's legal department asking me to take down this video due to a notice of some "rights" infringement. It took me a while to find out how to contact them, but finally was able to and advise them that whoever wanted me to take down this video could go to hell .... and if they wanted to pursue the matter they are welcome to sue me. Moe was a friend of mine and he gave me this video. Also Moe was a public figure. I don't know how good or how bad these Graves people are with their school and i don't care but they do not and never will own exclusive rights to his name and image. ...... Just one last very important point ..... Moe personally told me that he would never teach anyone to swing like he did ... take that for what it's worth.
what i think i see in moe's swing is with his wide stance and more distance from the ball he takes the body from getting in the way of the arm swing. kinda like a hockey slapshot.
great video of Moe but I don't think the narrator understands what moe was trying to achieve within his swing. Moe played in straight lines and didn't believe in hip turn. The narrator seemed to be wanting Moe to bemore traditional in his swing even though he had a lot of good things to say about the moes moves. also didn't realise Morgan Freeman knew so much about golf .
+Simon woodhouse You realize quickly that all this narrator is doing is looking at Moe's swing and positions in relation to position measurements taken of top golfer's of that time. However; Moe didn't swing like any of his contemporaries, (or anyone else for that matter) therefor the comparisons are of limited value. Moe's swing was built to hit straight shots.
Look at the video his hips have a large turn.
his finish is a game changer for wedges
Moe was proof of the importance of Impact, does not matter much how you get there (Ok, if you want to hit it far you do have to get there with some speed). No one says it but I think Moe's right hand coming back to the same position every time was a secret even he missed...
If Moe Norman had the social skills needed to play at the top, I think most professional teachers today would be teaching his swing because he would have been the Tiger Woods of his era. After reading the book about him, Feeling of Greatness, the Moe Norman Story, it's obvious he had problems that held him back despite the fact he was probably the best ball striker in Golf history.
You are my inspiration god bless you sir
Does this analyst realize he is criticizing a golf genius. I can see analysis but telling, probably, the greatest ball striker of all time what he is doing wrong is outrageous.
Thanks for sharing.
The narrator picks up on the level move through impact. Moe has mentioned the horizontal tug , I've yet to see or hear anyone explain how he did this over and over .
I was just making a comment, it wasn't really directed to come off as mean. I apologize
this video is the perfect example of the expert having no regard for the function of the swing! he's saying Moe should swing his hands less behind him and trace his club head on the same line and his address is too closed. fuck me the greatest ball striker ever and this guy dresses him down like a 30 handicapper
+James Wood I believe what you have to keep in mind is that all this so called "expert" is doing is to compare Moe's swing to the "narrow band of measurements" (my quote) of the top golfers of the day ......and of course, Moe's swing did not at all fall into the norm of the day, so it makes this analysis of little conventional use .....I believe it is however useful to help to understand Moe's swing.
Agree 100% with that: Mo must have been proud of it in some way if he was willing to share it with another - you must have been close. And he should be proud; show me another analysis from the same stable and I doubt it would have similar kudos. Thanks for sharing
Where do I start? I write this not just as an answer your post, but also to provide some observations and hopefully some insight into the amazing golfer named Moe Norman. I'm sure sure that I wasn't the closest to Moe, however I was able to gain his trust and get closer to him than most. I was around Moe with a group of pro golfers for maybe 7 or 8 years before this trust developed. (I won't do it now; but if anyone is interested, I can related how this trust was gained ... I think it's also an insight into Moe's character). Moe was great around children but he had distrust of almost all adults; particularly those he did not know. Something must have happened to Moe to create this distrust as it was almost palpable in watching him interact with adults. As to Moe being proud of his swing and therefor sharing the video ..... I believe he was proud of his swing, but there was always a hint of some insecurity about his golf. Watch other videos of Moe and you will hear him state how only he a a few others had found the "greatness" and had great swings. My observation was that he had a small area of doubt and insecurity and was maybe making these statements of his greatness to convince himself 100% or to seek the validation of others. Fact is that in my opinion he did, in fact, have one of the greatest golf swing ever.
James, thanks again for all this. I think this is the best video of Moe out there, purely because the overlay of conventional analysis points up the distinctive aspects of his swing which made him the best ball striker ever. I'm looking forward to hitting the range with what I've picked up - my game has even improved on the course in the meantime just from adopting a smidge of what I can see here. As you are someone with close contact with Moe, I would encourage you to expand on how you got to know him and anything there is to say that would elaborate on his character - he was certainly some character. By the by, it strikes me that the analyst in the video probably had no idea who Moe was or anything about him and was just giving a stock review of what he thought was some average golfer's swing; by the end of the video he has certainly reached the conclusion that there is an interesting methodology going on, and it's odds on that he has no idea where the ball is going due to the poor quality of the (rather ancient by today's standards) video.
Just to possibly provide some further insight into Moe's personality; ..... I used to practice at a driving range and got to know and hang around with all of the pros there. Moe frequently practiced there and often a group of us would hang around and just talk golf. For as many as 8 or 9 years I never spoke to Moe 1 on 1; it was always in a group situation. Moe eventually got used to seeing me and gained some comfort level with me and one day it was just Moe and me and we got to talking about the golf swing. At some point Moe described his view on some part of the golf swing. For the life of me I cannot remember what the details were; however, I remember with great clarity what followed. What ever it was that he described; what he said and how he described it, I had never heard before. I remember my reaction was to shake my head an give a small laugh only because I was amazed at what he said and how it said it. Moe's reaction to my reaction was to say; "see ..... just like everyone else, you're laughing at me". I responded the following:" Moe .... I wasn't laughing at you ..... I far too much respect for you and your knowledge of the golf swing to ever laugh at you. It's just that I've never heard that part of the swing described like that and yet it makes perfect sense". From that day on we were a lot more like "friends".
355 views lol, today's golfers don't know what they're missing
"the player" "the player" blah blah blah. This video is better watched on mute.
Man it's agonizing to listen to.
you can see a counter fall which is his real secret. you hit with body mass instead of arm speed. go to gravity golf which explains it all. you make your body off balance in which your back falls forward and is balanced by the swinging of the club.
Great video. Thanks James. Will you look at my video and add it to your playlist? I am a big Moe Norman fan. Thanks.
Please post the narrator's swing.
Well done 👏
No, the analysis is pretty good. His swing is oddball and unique and should not be copied. The only point worth consideration is placing the clubhead well behind the ball at address which prevents an "inside" or "outside" takeaway path.
Tales about Moe Norman get taller and taller to the point of absurdity.
I have a few of my own. If you can't beat 'em, might as well join 'em, so here goes.....
Moe would land a ball on a tee .... from 250 yards .... in a wind ... while blindfolded.
On another occasion he deliberately bounced a ball off a rabbits' head at such an angle it went into the hole ... all while the rabbit was scampering.
Also notable was his "bridge shot" ... when he decided to land it on the hand rail to cross a stream.
"Pest control" once hired Moe to clear a golf course of gophers. He stood on each tee and waited for the gophers to show, then launched his drive to deal with them. Of course, he only need a single bucket of balls to clear the course of all the pests.
His drives would normally fly 400 yards .... but he cut his swing down so that he could hit half a million balls a day instead of 250 thousand. Also at 400 yards, he started missing the hoop now and again ... so reining in his distance in to a mere 270 yards enabled him to
consistently drop the ball into a jam jar.
Most famously though, was when Lee Van Cleef, Clint Eastwood and Moe assembled on a shooting range. LVC took out his "Sabata" derringer, fired that bullet out of the butt and scored a perfect bull at 100 yards. Clint took out his Magnum 45, and from the hip bettered that at 200 yards. Moe casually popped his ball on a tee, took a deep breath and
split a target at 500 yards. It was a no contest.
What made these feats all the more remarkable was that he never cleaned
his club-faces. Of course, he never miss-hit a ball in his entire life .... .. honest.
The only thing he didn't do however, was to make any significant impact at the very top of professional golf (here he is referred to as the player, and NOT clearly not revered!), but hey, this is the internet, so I'm sure we can muster up a conspiracy theory about that ....
When was this video taken?
Here is a response that I made about 6 years ago. Think it's accurate as to timeline. ......Someone asked when the video was taken. As I recall, I received the video from Moe about 1984, so it was taken sometime before then; but not much before.
@@jamesniblick Looks about right. He would be maybe 55 or a year or two less then. That's near the end of his Senior Championships. Canadian PGA Seniors' Championship winner (1979-1985, 1987). I wonder what happened in 1986? Maybe he got bored or let someone else win?
@@robertbrown7470 I was there watching Moe win what I believe was the Ontario CPGA Seniors at Brampton Golf & Country Club ..... I think he won 6 or 7 in a row. Many fond memories of Moe on and off thr golf course.
@@jamesniblick He won six in a row from 1979 to 1985 and then in 1987.
What is correct or incorrect? It's all a matter of preference. Fundamentals or conventionality don't automatically produce results. All that matters is the scorecard.
This has to be a satire. This guy doesn't really think he can improve most perfect swing of greatest ball sticker in history, does he. But, was great video and diagram of Moe's perfect swing.
Is it my imagination but did Moe stand at an angle to the ball?
Tee never moves had it for 7 years, hope this commentator can beat him, course records, holes in one 59’s
Although his swing might have been awkward LOOKING in the eyes of today's mindless teachers of the game, the swing of the amazing Moe Norman was anatomically perfect. Ben Hogan once said… "There is no greater criticism to the golf swing than the flight of the ball."
He's got know idea how moe got square so early in the down swing. Quite good foot action indeed...lmao the best ever I hope moe got to see this so he could have a good laugh..
Weight Shift is automatic when you swihg with the Let Arm
Who’s doing this evaluation? Unless it’s God, I don’t think he has the credentials to evaluate the greatest ball striker who’s ever lived
Lee Trevino said he never took a lesson or advice as he never met anybody who could beat him.
Jamesniblick do you think that you think that all these wrongs you feel need to be corrected when speaking of possibly the purest striker of the ball the world has seen? I guess you'd change Jim Furyk, Lee Trevino, Miller Barber, Aoki, Matthew Wolf , John Daley, Jordan Spieth...... All these players have nonconforming aspects to there swings but would they have been better with swing changes that fall into what's considered acceptable swing positions? Honestly I think not. Is there one swing, setup, grip, posture, fit all golf swing. Whatever way a golfer can get the club on plane in the hitting position seems to be something all the aforementioned do but in different ways but do it exceptionally.
I don't think you understand that I am not the person making the comments in the video .....this not my analysis. If you read the full description you'll learn more about my connection Moe and how I came by and finally digitized and uploaded it to UA-cam.
@@jamesniblick my bad for directing that at you if you were not commentating that said whoever commentating and providing analysis has lost their way.. not in their technical mythology but Improvement on such pedigreed players.
@@johnnyboy4me It's OK. you're not the first to make that assumption. Also ..... at least you're decent enough to own up.
I watched and was with Moe a lot. I was fortunate to witness one of the greatest ball strikers of all time and I would never dare to criticize his swing or his method. You don't fool with what would be considered near perfection in a sport where perfection can never be attained by any mere mortal.
Swing of the Ángel
Moe show us the easier way to hit a straight shot, if you want to hit one.
I think most people want draw and fade ball flight....not straight. #moenorman2k
You need to take into consideration the angle of the camera and the angle of the ball flight. Your analysis is already faulty and I'm only 4 and a half minutes into the video. Had the camera been parallel to the line of flight of the ball, you would see a different and more obvious motion. Like hogan, both stand slightly open to the target, and the shoulder rotation is parallel to the ball flight. Think before you make assumptions about Moe's swing
+Evan James First of all this is not my analysis of Moe's swing. If you would have read the description you would know that this a copy of a tape that Moe gave to me that happened to be an analysis by someone else. I think the name of the entity/company doing the analysis is named in the beginning of the tape. Perhaps, if you are so inclined, you can look them up (if they still exist) and give them shit. Don't blame me if you don't like what you see ...... I just thought I would finally share this video on UA-cam.
Causes of what? A great swing, 225+ yard drive (probably) and straight where he's aiming it.
After many years there is now a NEW novel out on Moe Norman! SEND IN THE CLOWN available on Amazon and Kindle. www.amazon.ca/s?k=andrew%20stelmack Moe's story as never told before. Check it out!
It's comical listening to suggested changes to the swing of the greatest ball striker of all time. If Moe made any of these changes his swing would be less than 100% perfect. Jim Crowley
Greatest swing in history? No. Most effective swing in history? Yes.
Of course I'm going to agree on the effectiveness of his swing. The term "greatest" would always be debatable and the term could always be subject to interpretation. All I can say is I don't know if you ever saw Moe hit balls or play. I spent many hours watching Moe hitting balls and playing golf and I suspect a lot of people that have would say he had one of the greatest swings ever. In fact, Ken Venturi is reported to have said that Moe's swing was better overall than Hogan's
Bobby Jones may have had the most elegant swing. But he couldn’t hit a ball like moe. Moe was the greatest.
Hahaha. Listen to this narrator. He's trying to nit pick a swing that hit the ball dead straight on target every time. Haha. Everything he said he should do should be something he should teach. What a crock video. Get an amateur that's not one of the greatest ball striker That ever lived eh.
Yeah, ill take Normans reults over that dudes any day.
moe did change his swing,,,,,,,,,,,1963-64 and also in his 60's,,,,,,,,,,
i can't imagine that moe could hit a driver 250 on the fly with his action, maybe total with the roll out bur that's ok distance isn't everything.
Why don’t you analyze what the ball did😳
I apologize but I'm a little annoyed that people don't read my comments at the time I posted this Video. People keep making comments thinking that I am the person that took the video and narrating the analysis of Moe's swing.
Once again; for the record, Moe was a friend of my and gave this on video tape. I finally digitized it and put it on UA-cam to share for fans of Moe
If you want to critized the analyst, feel free to look him up and direct your comments to him..
The commentator doesn't know anything about the golf swing. He is just another talker about nothing...
And I suppose Hank Aaron used too much wrist action from the standard? There's no one perfect method.
Master
Coco school of commentators
Dude with all respect, who are you to pick any aspect of this guy's golf swing as non-ideal.
Who is this question directed to?
If people watched Moe and implemented his swing, clowns like this so called instructor would need to find another profession.
No one understand and can duplicate his swing, up till now. If anyone teach something he don't know, we call it bullshit.
Let's #swinglikemoe and post it, mine #moenorman2k
Straight Line Golf r
Your telling Moe Norman how to hit a Golf Ball,LOL..
Steve .... I get more than just a little pissed off with people giving me shit because they think that I'm the commentator in this video. If you would have read the accompanying information you would know that Moe was a friend of mine and he gave me this video of someone elses analysis of his swing. Also, if you would watch the entire video and listen to the commentator closely you might cut him some slack as he explains the perameters of his video analysis. He makes comparisons to other golfers most of who have conventional golf swings ..... Moe's golf swing was unconventional so obviously it would deviate for the from those norms.
Criticizing greatness and perfection is a joke this guy pretends to know...
Unreal, acceptable, correct, should do this, closed stance caused that, ha ha ha. Obviously never met Moe.
As we know the media always think that they know everything
But actually knows nothing
This bloke talks a lot off rubbish
He was and will always be the best striker off the gholf ball ever lived
You should become a teacher seeing you know nothing about gholf
So
Here we go
Altogether know 1 2 3
Your analysis is done in the wrong plane. Moe swung on a single plane, that’s not the shoulders to the ball. It’s from the club shaft up through his right arm and out the mid back. Because you drew it too high, it gives a false sense of positions. If moe took your advice and changed his feet and address, he wouldn’t be swinging on a single plane and would hit like shit frankly.
Please! .... Pease! ..... Please! ..... read my description. I am NOT the person doing the analysis of Moe's swing. Moe was a friend of mine and he gave me this video. I finally digitized it to share with fans & those interested in Moe. I did not make the original video and I am not the person doing the commentary and the analysis of Moe's swing.
@@jamesniblick my apologies! That’s amazing he was a friend of yours. Despite the frustrations the comments have with the analyzer, it’s wonderful to have the footage of Moe. Thanks for sharing
@@Thegooob95 I practiced at a place called Pleasure Park driving range just north of Toronto beginning in the early 1970's. I was there so often that I got to know all of the pros and was frequently in group discussions with Moe. It was probably 3 or 4 years before he became comfortable being around me ( Moe was very wary of people he didn't know ). One day we were talking about the golf swing and he described something in the golf swing in a manner that I had never heard before (for the life of me I cannot remember precisely what aspect of the swing we were discussing). I remember chuckling because he described the swing in a way I had never heard before. Moe then said to me: "see you're laughing at me ..... eveyone laughs at me!" I just remember saying that I wasn't and would never laugh at him because I had too much respect for him ..... I just chuckled because he described the swing in a way i had never heard before and yet it made so much sense. From that day on he trusted me and we somewhat became friends. We traded gold clubs and I still have a coupke of Moe's drivers.
This guy is clueless
Uhhhhh
This critique of Moe's swing is very irritating. This donkey knocks almost every part of the swing as if that is what matters and where the ball goes does not. This is an obvious attempt by The PGA to keep their monopoly on golf swing technique. Their intent was to keep you coming back for endless "lessons" and endless equipment purchases. The PGA is a business for profit and it not at all concerned with the average golfer other than to empty their wallets. All MY OPINION, of course.
He was a hack driving range player, never won a PGA TOUR event, never Made the cut at the Masters, never accomplished what many great players did with a conventional swing...over valued.
Your full of shit. you don't know anything about Moe. arsehole .
moe has 35 course records 59 5 or 6 times 55 tour wins in canada if moe wanted to play full time in the states he would have won 150 times 5 or6 us open s at least all you had to do is watch him hit one shot and you would know this guy was in the hogan category of excellence