PLANMAN explains Death Wobble Diagnosis and Inspection Jeep JK Wrangler Part 1
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- Опубліковано 3 жов 2024
- 2-part video of how to diagnose shimmies and wobbles on a Jeep JK Wrangler. Part 1 is a demonstration and explanation of the front end and steering components.
This is by far the best video ive seen explaining the direction components on a JK. New owner point of you. Very slow and clear which is great!
Wow that was the most thorough video I have ever seen . Excellent job ! I wish you were our family's mechanic
The only time I ever got death wobble with my lifted TJ (4" Rubicon Express lift) was because the toe in was out of spec. Improper toe in adjustments (should be between 1/16th and 1/8th") and a wallowed out track bar mount are the most common causes of DW.
Thank you PLANMAN!
...Really appreciate the time and effort you went through to explain this...
Awesome video! After installing adjustable control arms, shocks, steering stabilizer, and track bar, I was able to find out it was the drag link bushing at the knuckle shot. Wish I had seen this sooner could have saved some money
As a new jeep owner I am totally grateful for your detailed video. Time to buy a good torque wrench.
Thank you for your time.
always have enjoyed your write ups on the Jk-forum and now glad to have found these videos. I'm running 38s on 3.5" of lift thanks to your advice.
Awesome video. I have a death wobble from 90-92km/h that gets pretty serious if I don't speed up or slow down. This video gave a lot more detailed explanation of what can lead to that kind of shaking. Thanks for posting this.
This actually sounds like wheel balance. If it's speed dependant
Nice, very well spoken and staying on task / subject. I've replaced my track bar and steering dampener but still have death wobble. I'm slowly running down that rabbit trial with upper and lower ball joints next to replace, hence, me watching your video.
I have to say, it's refreshing to see a video where someone knows their shit. mtplanman seems to be one of those that knows their stuff.
Fantastic video and description. Thank you. Your a great instructor.
This video was CLUTCH in helping me understand how my steering componentry works and diagnosing the major problem I had (Drag link end at the passenger side knucckle) and the minor problems elsewhere (all ball joints, drag link at the pitman, and both tie rod ends).
I've now replaced them all (ball joints were a b!tch) and my Jeep is happy.
Thanks for a highly informative video that breaks it down in an easy-to-grasp way.
WOW. You are saving me so much money. I really appreciate you taking the time to actually make this video in such detail. Found you over at the JK forums.
Thank-you so much, these are the best videos on the internet for this issue. Now I've got to go diagnose my issue!
Thanks!
Awesome video. Really helped a jeep noob like myself understand my front end better.
Thanks a lot. This video really helped me a lot. I had been fighting this issue for a while and finally tracked it down to a tie rod end thanks to all the demonstrations of all the checks in the video. I had already viewed a bunch of material on the death wobble, but this was the only one that really pointed me in the right direction.
Glad it helped.
Very good quality video with a lot of good info.. Thank you for clearing the muddied water!
Great explanation, which might help me with my actual death wobble....great job, thanks a lot !
Thanks for the video, I feel more smarter now.
great video, very informative. you are a life saver
Great walk-thru. My 03 picked up DW and my mech did indeed do the Steering stab replacement. My 04 has started DWing, and now I know better.
Thumb^^. :)
the best vid i have seen you have explained evry thing to the tee
very nice job, thanks for taking thr time to enlighten me.
Planman you truly are a hero! this video is so thorough and informative. really looking forward to watching the second part and i really can not thank you enough for all the time and effort you put towards the video and explanation!
Great video mate really appreciate you taking the time to make this!
I finally understand my front end abit better
Excellent video, thanks for posting! BTW you sound a lot like Peter Gregory in the show Silicon Valley. And that's the highest compliment.
clear and concise. great explanation, thanks
you're tha man. thank you
this gave me alot of insight into what may be causing my death wobble on my 94 ZJ 5.2L. we'll see how she rides tomorrow after I put the new mounted and balanced tires on, but im thinking the track bar jacked up
My DW story... I have a 93 Grand Cherokee. At around 30,000, it started the death wobble. I have a car lift and have done my own mechanic work all my life. So I figured I have this. Up it went and I did everything I have done to hundreds of vehicles for years to check all suspension and front drivetrain. Everything seemed tight and unworn. My wife's dad bought the Jeep new and passed shortly after. Her mother drove the jeep to the store and back till she passed and we inherited it. I know the thing was not put in four wheel drive very many times in it's life. So basically what I am saying is the Jeep was just like new when we got it with less than 20,000 miles. Back to the story of dw. I couldn't find anything wrong so I took it to an alignment shop that I have used for years and have always had good service from them. They couldn't find anything wrong so we drove it up the road. At 45 mph it went into the dw. The guy said he had never seen anything like this. He checked everything and did an alignment on it and it still, dw... After several attempts, he said he determined the track bar was the problem. $180. later he said it was fixed. I picked it up and on the way home it was still wobbling. Went right back and got my money back and found another shop. Same thing, not a clue what caused it but said I needed to replace all my bushings and tie rods. I asked why and they said they were all worn enough that they were all causing the problem. I didn't buy it. Now if I would go from 40 to 60 under heavy throttle, I could get past the wobble and it would run all day. But between 45 and 60 it would almost always wobble and violently!!! Eventually I replaced every part that can be replaced including tires twice because they would wear out fast. 4 or 5 shops tried to fix it and no one knew what to do. After putting up with the problem for several years and spending probably $2,000, I was thinking about what was going on when it was wobbling. I had even stuck my head out the window to watch the tire. What I decided was the toe in was causing the problem. I know it was aligned to specs at least 5 times but something was still not right! I got my tape measure out and a couple of pieces of angle iron and set the toe in to less than 1/8th of an inch. It was over 3/8ths when I first checked it. It has now been over 100,000 miles later and never once have I experienced the DW! I figured out the geometry of these suspensions cause this problem when they get to a certain harmonics. With the toe in adjusted in to far, the left tire will try to go right at a certain harmonic and when it gives in to traction making it slip, then the right tire will be trying to go left and at just the right harmonics the fight for traction gets to be more than the tires can support and they begin fighting and they start the wobble. Don't know if this is a good explanation, but when I took almost all the toe in out of my alignment, it fixed the problem. Even with 31 inch tires the wobble never came back. I now have over 160,000 and it runs and drives like a new one.... Almost.... lol...
DL ends and TREs should have almost zero vertical play. They must have rotational play for the suspension to be able to cycle, but vertical play is a sign that the end is damaged.
Well then all of my DL ends and TREs need to be replaced then. haha! Thanks for the info! Great videos helped me out a lot.
Hi Planman 4x4. I have a new 2015 JK unlimited Rubicon with currently 1600 miles. Post market work: 2.5" AEV lift with AEV Geometry Correction Front Control Arm Brackets.
I had absolutely no issues until i fitted 35" tires (BF Goodrich mud terrains) mounted and balanced on AEV Pintler wheels.
My issues: steering wheel oscillating left to right at about 40mph - had re-alignment done and although the steering wheel oscillation persists, it is to a lesser degree and kicks in at about 45mph. At 65-70 MPH, excessive vibration with some wobbling of the body occurs. However, the JK does not loose control, and the wobble gets progressive as the speed increases from 65mph. Problem is, I had absolutely none of these issues with the factory tires (on the lifted vehicle) and was able to achieve over 80mph with absolutely no wobble or problems. My problems have started only after putting on the 35" tires. Have also discovered significant play in the rear tires and a grinding noise from the rear left, which looks like a wheel bearing issues (the left wear has excessive play and somewhat less on right rear. I have as yet done only mild off-roading (on unpaved roads with corrugations, pot holes (wet/dry), but nothing extreme. Seems like rear wheel bearings are gone! Could this cause the wobbling?
It is likely that you did not remove the lug retainer clips when you swapped wheels. They are not on every stud, and they will prevent aftermarket wheels from sitting flush on the hub/brake. Here is a picture: project-jk.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=135554&g2_serialNumber=2
With regard to the rear, chock your front tires, put your rear axle up on jack stands, put your transmission in neutral, and spin the rear tires by hand. You will be able to see and hear the source of the grinding. It could be that a bolt for your rear swaybar links needs to be inverted. It could also be that the shop that installed the lift failed to install the rear trackbar relocation bracket, and your axle is off center.
Thank you for the advice Planman; I will check this out.
Have you got a photo of the rear trackbar relocation bracket in situ so I can have a look for comparison with mine (I am a total novice). If the trackbar relocation bracket was not installed, would this not cause a problem with the factory tires also? I look forward to your response. Many thanks again
+jemcoop1 Running the lift without the rear axle side AEV trackbar relocation bracket would not cause a problem with the tires themselves. It would shift the axle more to the passenger side of the vehicle and reduce the clearance between the tire/wheel and the swaybar link, swaybar, brakeline, and frame. Here is a photo of the rear end of a JK that has the AEV 2.5" lift installed. The trackbar bracket is the bracket that is bolted on to the axle with U-bolts and to the stock bracket on the left hand side of the picture, next to the shock. www.socaloverland.com/uploads/2/5/6/4/25641089/9117763_orig.jpg
Thanks for the photo. I checked after reading your last message and I am relieved to say that the trackbar relocation bracket is in situ! I will investigate further the other possibilities that you pointed out in your last message and if my problems are not resolved, I hope you will not mind me picking your brain further. Many thanks
Suddenly Im not a fan of Rough Country either! Install done by me and an ASE cert. mechanic. Why is it this vehicle ran perfectly until lift was installed? Wouldn't I have experienced problems before if my suspension components were loose or worn??
Thank you thank you thank you!!!! So much valuable info. Thank you.
replaced my steering stabo first, then checked trackbar bushings, they looked fine but replaced it anyway, then... those damn ball joints... but the DW is cured. then i nailed a sneaky rock burried in the road going a bit too fast, now I suspect some u-joint damage. jeeps get expensive if you use them right...
THANK YOU! This has helped me SO much!
Your illustration is PERFECT!! Great vid.. But how bout an updated one with a bit better lighting??
excellent video
None of the items you mention were listed in the directions of the lift kit. I added a new Track Bar and steering stabilizer yesterday and it's 80% better, as it does not go into full shudder now. But the precursor is there. I knew the Castor would be out from the lift, and planned on getting it aligned when I got new tires. But honestly, I don't think Im gonna chance putting out a grand in rubber just to find out that this problem will make the vehicle unsafe to drive.
Just found - really helpful :)
Deathwobble is basically the same as that one annoying flopping shoppingcard wheel sending the cart into the shelves instead of where you want it to go = Negative caster
Off course any play in any joints described in the video should always be addresed by replacing tierod ends and balljoints if they show any play. However the best solution to eliminate deathwobble is to make sure you have positive caster. When you lift a jeep and do not replace at least the lower control arms, the axle will be pulled to a negative caster, the upper arms become "longer" and the lower arms "shorter" basically. Installing adjustable, longer than stock, lower control arms will give you back positive caster and with well maintained joints eliminate any deathwobble. It's a very often overlooked part with deathwobble issues.
my 2013 jeep wrangler only wobble when turning a corner, not wobble at high speeds or fully turn. i wonder what caused it?
Love ur channel. Great how 2 trouble shoot DW. Now I did a part check. I have detachable sway bar links on the front. The bushings on the top have some play could that be a small part of the DW?
The loose links would contribute to the problem, but they wouldn't be the sole or primary source of the problem.
Great video. Just a reminder, it's resonance, not residence. But otherwise a great video.
Also when I go over simple imperfections on the road it tries to take me with it, nearly off of the road at times!
Just watched a couple of your videos. Good stuff!! I have a "08" JK with bad DW. I found my track bar axle mount is badly ovaled. I replaced bolt with 9/16". What would you recommend doing to the ovaled mount to correct.
Really appreciate the detail you put into your videos on DW.
To correct ovaled bracket bolt holes, the most common thing to do is to weld heavy duty washers over the holes. Another method is to weld the hole closed and re-drill it. Another method is to use a bracket brace--i.e. Synergy Manufacturing has a frame side brace, part # 8069-01.
Thanks for the info and again, GREAT videos!
Just Purchased a 2014 4 door Wrangler Sahara. The steering slightly sticks in the last direction the steering wheel was turned. I had a shop do a front-end alignment which didn't help and they removed the steering stabilizer and still have the same problem. Any suggestions/advice or guidance would be appreciated.
Should the drag link be able to be shaken vertically? Like a twisting up and down sort or motion
That is a darn shame, but I hope you have a nice trip
I keep getting a swing play in my Jeep JK taking it to a couple of places and they seem not to know the problem. Steering is good no play and doesn't move to a side is just feels like if my way bar is disconnected which is not.
The first thing I would do is do a steering cycle test like I show in the videos. The second thing I'd do is have someone rock the vehicle side to side while I looked for wear, looseness, or clunking in the steering and suspension parts.
You mentioned about 6 minutes into the video about adjustments to the drag link to center the steering wheel. By that I assume you mean so that the top of the steering wheel is straight up when you are moving straight ahead.
I have a slightly different issue in that my steering wheel column points to the left so if the steering column came right out it would hit me near my left shoulder instead of in the center of my chest. How do I adjust that to point it back to the center of me? (The "Jeep" name in the center of the wheel points more to the left that it should, but it is parallel with the floor/ceiling/ground.)
I do not believe you can change the orientation of your steering column to have it point more towards the center of the vehicle.
okay I understand that but please explain to me how the hell did The Flintstones turn their car
Could a 08 jk's sway bars have anything to do with wobble? Mine usualy doesnt do it too bad but today it shook extremely violently enough to bounce the front tires while I was decelerationg around 50-55 mph.
Gotta take it to the shop, talking Chinese to me , nuckle, drive link, pitman arm ,🤔
just put a 3.25 lift on my 97 Tj, and guess what? Horrible Death Wobble! If I cannot find the culprit, I am SHITCANNING this lift! Extremely Dangerous! Rough country shoud have DISCLOSED this !!!!
Do the 2012 JK's have this issue also?
Cheers mate.
When i hit bumps, i get a small shudder. Turning and dips are ok. Suggestions??
I'd do the tests that I show in both these videos. My friend's jeep did the same thing, and the tests diagnosed what needed to be replaced.
So this is a 4x4?
I have a 2003 Jeep Wrangler, it has about 55k odometer miles with an additional 10k+ miles towed (flat four) behind RV. When I get to about 55mph I have severe wobble and tends to stop at around 60mph. Are the any front end parts that may tend to wear more from being flat four towed?
A speed dependent vibration that occurs every time you reach a given speed is nearly always a tire/wheel out of balance. That doesn’t mean there might not be other things that are worn, but start with getting the tires/wheels road force balanced. If a jeep is properly flat towed, with the transfer case in neutral, if it is an automatic the transmission is in Park, if it is a manual the gear shifter is in first gear, the battery is disconnected, and the key is in the ignition turned on so that the steering column lock is not engaged, then there should not be parts unusually worn from being flat towed. A 2003 that only has about 65k miles on it probably sat quite a bit, and all the fluids should be changed, with the transmission flushed if it is an automatic. If the tires are pretty old, even if there isn’t much wear on them, if they have been sitting on the ground or in the sun, might need to be replaced-especially if they are dry cracked.
Thank you for your reply. The Jeep was towed as you described, it has not been towed in 7 years and is driven almost daily. Tires were balanced and rotated but problem was still there. I have driven to where the steering wheel shakes, leaning my head out the window I could see the driver side wheel and can see wheel wobble in and out not up and down, if that makes a difference.
Steve Preston If it is wobbling side to side rather than up and down, and they are aluminum wheels that are true and not bent (like steel wheels can get bent), then you want to go through the inspection process that I show in these videos, but since you have a TJ, you need to know that it is a little bit different. Here is a link to my inspection writeup for TJs: www.jeepforum.com/forum/f9/diagnosing-death-wobble-fixing-non-dw-shimmies-wobbles-tj-version-2359089/
I had an 03 Sahara that did the same thing. Was the strangest thing, but when my tires would wear down to about 1/3 of their life left, the Jeep would shake violently at 53-58mph, then smooth out if you'd go faster or slower. Figured the wheels were out of balance, so got em balanced and had an alignment done. Still persisted, and all the steering parts were still in good shape.. only thing that would fix it was putting new tires on it. Would be smooth as butter after that, then repeat and start wobbling again when there was about 15k miles left in the tires. No idea, but that was my experience with that old 03. Hope you get it figured out
Where are you located? If you are within a days drive I'd like to bring in my jeep. Thank you so much
david knox I’m in Moab, Utah, for Easter Jeep Safari this week. My home is in Montana.
so my 07 2 door is stock and i have experienced the death wobble only a couple of times, so ur saying to replace the stock bolts with 9/16 and it should be fine or should i replace the track bar as well?
+adam ant You would perform an inspection like I show in the second video, and you would fix what is wrong. The slightly larger bolts help to center the bushings over the holes, but they aren't necessary if the stock holes are not ovaled.
What do you do if your track bar bolts are already ovaled out?
You can run larger, 9/16" bolts. If they are very ovaled out, you can weld washers over the front and rear side of the brackets. Or, you can weld the holes shut and re-drill them. Also, Ruff Stuff Specialties has special washers that can be welded over holes to make them smaller.
To much torque in the drag link tire side can produce DW?
If you over torque the ends, you will damage them. If you over torque bolts, you will damage them. Torque bolts to the recommended specs.
Thanks...... Yes I over torque them, I mess them up and I started to get small vibrations but now is all fix I think!? Lol
Thanks man you're awesome 👍
Same thing with Rubi and electronic sway bar?
Russ, I'm not sure what your question is. The vehicle in the video is a Rubicon JKU.
I guess my question was, is there any difference if you have an electric sway bar disconnect like the ones in a Rubicon?
Russ No difference.
Cool. Thank you planman 4x4.
the question i got is .. why i got this problen in a 11K miles stock never offroad jeep??..
If it's a Jk, your lower ball joints are bad.
@@CharleytheGermanShepherd Not ball joints, it is a toe in problem. This suspension can't have more than an 1/8 in toe in or it will almost guarantee wobble!!!
I have a 2001 Grand Cherokee with a 4" rough country lift. EVERYTHING is new in the front end, yet I still get a wobble when I go over bums above 45MPH. The wobble was so bad it wore my new stock tie rod ends out, So, I replaced them with the Moog heavy duty ends. I get death wobble above 45 MPH over bumps, and it goes away when I decel to 40 MPH.All my front end parts are new, and there is no play anywhere, I adjusted the steering box yesterday, and the wobble got much much better, but it is not gone. Is it possible that the lift kit has affected and caused this wobble?
Rough Country makes a 4" WJ lift with the poor design of including a drop pitman arm. This can over-leverage the steering box and damage it. If you have that model RC WJ 4" lift, it could contribute to your problem. I haven't done a WJ inspection checklist, but here is the link to a TJ version. Do everything in post #2, but with the correct torque specs for a WJ. www.jeepforum.com/forum/f9/diagnosing-death-wobble-fixing-non-dw-shimmies-wobbles-tj-version-2359089/
I've seen other places where they indicate that lifting does bring on death wobble. I think I saw it at JeepForum, CherokeeTalk, etc. A lot of the "fixes" are putting on new parts that have gotten worn (apparently not your case). For my 2000 Grand Cherokee it was around 50-57MPH but everything seemed tight. I replaced all 4 tires (which were quite worn - maybe even originals) with Cooper AT3 and haven't had DW since (June 2014 was the replacement). Confirm your alignment.
Phil Reinie A speed dependent, easily repeatable, happens-every-time-you-reach-a-given-speed vibration is not the same thing as death wobble. These types of vibrations are nearly always either tire or wheel related.
***** For me, it only started wobbling after hitting a slight bump in the road, ~50MPH... and it didn't have to be much of a bump. Since the new tires I've also replaced the tie rod and ends and put in new track-bar bushings and had it aligned - even though the wobbling had stopped since the new tires. (But officer, I had to go that fast so it wouldn't death wobble!)
+Planman 4x4 So I'm having an issue in my JK where I will get shimmying/wobble when hitting bumps *just* right. I got the tires re-balanced and now it's worse (it happens when just on the road now above 50 MPH), but I can tell you it happens above 40 MPH and I can recreate it if I want to fairly easily. How could I diagnose whether or not it's related to tires or wheels? I have stock alloy wheels (17").
harmonic residents?
Harmonic resonance.
I know this video is 8 years old but dang I wish it was lighter for your video. Everything is so dark and you had to rely on the flashlight. Great video otherwise.
to me this video doesn't help. all he does is described each component.
Part 1 explains the parts. Part 2 shows an inspection. In the video descriptions, there is a.link to a more comprehensive written explanation and inspection checklist. Here is a link: www.jk-forum.com/forums/jk-write-ups-39/write-up-diagnosing-death-wobble-fixing-non-dw-shimmies-wobbles-260145/
How much play should the DL ends and TREs have when compressing them with the channel locks?