Tbf, out of all characters, Kholek deserves this mass. If they can’t make him big enough to look over the walls of Praag, then they can at least give him the more accurate mass he would have if he could gosh darn it!
I really feel like the AI in Warhammer 3 has been heavily predisposed towards sniping lords and heroes, even if it's to their severe detriment. Bring a large spellcaster like a River Troll Hag and watch the enemy ranged units trip over themselves to target her.
Yeah I thought that was odd. I've had battles where smaller characters, sometimes not even on mounts, will get shot at while in melee. And with as big a target as Kholek is, the Organ Guns and Irondrakes should have been shooting him the whole battle. I don't know if it's because they were "stuck" in melee and their skirmish AI didn't kick in?
Its more of a distance thing. The enemy was so far away from his other troops that the AI prioritzed kholek. On a smaller map this might have looked different.
@@kohlenkurt3155 even on smaller maps if the general is a decent distance away they will try to snipe characters and mostly ignore the rest of the army. In some cases while being shot by your own artillery... it's been that way since the last DLC was released.
in my greasus campaign, stonehorns have like 14,000 mass and I didn't know how powerful that is until now. I just thought it was neat but now I know that can be potentially very very good. Thanks legend lol
@DIEGhostfish greasus campaign effect increases unit mass for all units faction wide, I think it's 15% or more not sure. But that combined with pre-battle feast increases it more, making it roughly 14k, also for the Hunter heros.
Grail knights got more mass now, combined with the triangle formation they act very funny. I easilly get 600 kills per battle with a unit of grail knights.
Up until the patch a few days ago that changed the mass of some units this probably would have been a rough fight and Kholek would have been easier to bog down.
This is another demonstration of how you don't have to use your full army in battles, for those who are new to the channel. If you have powerful single-entity units, they can be sufficient to do the entire battle by themselves while the rest of the army can be reserved to keep your Balance of Power high, giving the enemy an early Army Losses penalty.
Can also keep the army small to entice the AI to engage with weaker armies too. And if you want to eliminate them down to the man so they don’t retreat to a garrison then withdraw your forces (slow trickle never huge waves) to balance their losses so they’ll stay to fight down to the last.
@@guyincognito1406 would say it's more efficient in that case to have heaps of really fast units in reserve, perhaps a large number of warhounds, so as to block and kill all of the enemy's routing units.
Kholek: "Okay you guys hold back here in the woods to protect yourselves from their missile attacks. I'll take the wizards out and soften them up." *Five minutes later* "Okay good fight we really stomped them this time."
When people talk about the AI acting differently in your battles, they mean things like the flying shadow and metal wizards being completely ignored while hovering over the entire combined army.
@@tunemaki_izlasitrlv6835 ngl I play on very hard I’ve noticed ai just blob up even archers. Idk what they broke cuz wh2 ai 100% would shoot your ass till you died
This tactic is absolutely impossible to excute in WH2 because the enemy will just pepper you with missiles but in WH3 missile units just join the melee It is so ridiculous
Except they did pepper him, he was just a) running through them and forcing them into melee and b) because he was running everywhere he also dodged almost all of them.
@@settratheimperishable4093He didn’t dodge Jack shit, and you can’t dodge much of them, only extraordinarily slow or extraordinarily long range projectiles (fire, catapults). The ai also just stops trying to run it’s ranged units away after you get them into melee once. It’s very inefficient and this strat would suck against a decent ai.
the new entity mass changes coming into play. At least they're making cavalry and large units make sense now, it never made sense why a unit of dwarves (yes i understand they have expert charge defense but their individual mass is tiny) could withstand a charge from something like a T Rex. It literally doesn't matter how stout you are or how well you can take a charge if the thing that's charging you can literally just step on you and squash you
It would make more sense if mass had tiers, dwarves should withstand a charge from other infantry and small demons every time but monsters should be on a higher tier which just makes it impossible. That way perhaps even giants could walk through battle lines (AS THEY SHOULD) and be somewhat useful for their size. Same goes with large monsters of other races.
It’s a dumb mechanic imo. Missiles should travel between trees fairly easily; monsters are much bigger and therefore can travel between trees… even more easily than tiny projectiles?
@@erikblomgren592 I think the idea is that in battle archers don’t normally aim for a particular target but do valleys of arrows in the direction of the enemy and in that situation a lot of them would get blocked. I think the units like the wood elf archer units that get bonuses in the forest should have their missiles be able to not be disrupted by the forest, since there are more sniper archers. The equivalent to the Indians that fought the British in the French American war.
Okay, going back on this... I just saw Battlesey's video and concluded that this isn't just Kholek. The reason this happens is the crazy mass + acceleration (and deceleration). Basically all cavalry and monstrous units with sufficient speed, mass, acceleration and deceleration can do this (including lords and heroes) and it's amplified if you have the Banner of Swiftness/Wayfarer. I just tried it myself with a CD Bull Centaur Taur'ruk against a random Tomb Kings small settlement garrison and I got 28K damage and 500 kills in just a few minutes. The trick is to just click on an enemy unit "behind" the units you also want to charge, as your unit will just charge through everything with low enough mass. This actually has the same vibe as OG Rome/Medieval Total War "charge through" mechanics. Holy cow, is this strong... and fun. I'm actually hoping that they keep this in. Yes, it's incredibly powerful versus infantry, but admittably... the game will be in a much better state if all units become OP in their own way and it's just a matter of timing your attacks. That's much more entertaining (and against players: more challenging) than playing the rock-paper-scissors with minor stat increases along the way.
Honestly I don’t think that mass is overpowered. What’s happening is exactly what should happen when an 80 foot tall monster runs through a group of 4ft infantry.
@@bogdanleshenko7149 I think the AI handles it differently on lower difficulties, for some reason, on highest difficulty it refuses to shoot the small casters, but on lower, as far as i have experienced, they will just turn every single ranged unit on one of my heroes randomly.
Viewer: Hey Legend! Can you help me with this disaster battle ? Legend: Sure i can rate your doomstack. V: But it's not a doomstack. L: Hold my beer! V: :O Audience: :O
Did Kholek got any bug fixes recently? I once managed to vassalize 100ish AIs and Kholek grew so big I could not play him anymore. Each time a battle would have loaded the game crashed. I don't know if it was a feature or just the lack of my potato.
Always upgrade to armored trolls, their staying power is a lot better, and take a lot less casualties in auto res. My favourite unit in Chaos armies nowadays, cheap, plentiful, regen and ap, delicious.
AI when they see a impossible to hold down lord and a spellcaster with amazing AoE spells: "Time to blob! And don't forget to send in the ranged units!"
I did a similar thing in my recent Khorne campaign. Skarbrand has 6000 mass, add in a strider banner. A 3 full stack army? No problem, you only need one command, "take a walk."
"Thorgrim's declared war on Heralds of the Tempest!" Brilliant, so how are they doing? "In the first engagement, The Dwarves lost nearly two thousand good soldiers." ... And what about the Heralds of the Tempest? "What about them? Heralds of the Tempest hasn't even arrived yet."
Legend, please make a video of you using the new grail knights. You always do things with the most efficiency, and I’d love to see how you use them now they have larger mass.
This wasn't a saving your disaster battle.
This was a One Man Doomstack showcase.
Two men doomstack, Kholek and his buddy the shadow sorcerer.
@@versok2999 My headcanon is that Solek and shadow sorcerer high fived after that battle.
Came here to say that.
BTW 69 likes. Nice.
@@millerrepin4452 They did and that is why the Shadow Sorcerer no longer possesses hands.
@@millerrepin4452 Kholek is so massive the sorcerer probably didnt even need to land for the high five
Good thing for dwarfs is, that after the battle they can scoop up all their flattened kin and used them as a new pages for Book of Grudges
RoFLMAO
ΗΑΗΗΑΗΑΗΑΗΑΗΑΗΑ
Thorgrim wouldnt have to write the grudgin in the book, those pages would be the grudgin themselves lol
that was so good! hahaha
LOL ! n1 ;)
Kholek dragging Thorgrim around in his wheelchair like a good grandson
Ironic since Kholek is one of the oldest characters in the setting
@@JustSome462 and his daddy is a mother fucking mountain
Dwarfs: *Have expert charge defense*
Kholek: "Oh no! Anyway"
It's not like Kholek needs the charge bonus anyway lmao
Legend will probably refuses to admit it but the control groups mechanic carried this battle.
lol
😂👌
The AI was too afraid of the control groups to attack
8:48 "This is disgusting." Truly, the highest possible praise from Legend.
lol
Imagine fighting a really angry mountain with an axe.
A hammer, even.
@@HiddenEvilStudios A WARHAMMER if you will
@@sauronplugawy3866 a Total Warhammer 3, in fact
That’s too many charlemagnes, how about a nice mobile game?
A 100+ speed mountain
Tbf, out of all characters, Kholek deserves this mass.
If they can’t make him big enough to look over the walls of Praag, then they can at least give him the more accurate mass he would have if he could gosh darn it!
A video about legend laughing like a child while running a toy horsey through little army men.
Critics rave: 10/10, would enjoy again!
I really feel like the AI in Warhammer 3 has been heavily predisposed towards sniping lords and heroes, even if it's to their severe detriment. Bring a large spellcaster like a River Troll Hag and watch the enemy ranged units trip over themselves to target her.
Yeah I thought that was odd. I've had battles where smaller characters, sometimes not even on mounts, will get shot at while in melee. And with as big a target as Kholek is, the Organ Guns and Irondrakes should have been shooting him the whole battle. I don't know if it's because they were "stuck" in melee and their skirmish AI didn't kick in?
Its more of a distance thing. The enemy was so far away from his other troops that the AI prioritzed kholek. On a smaller map this might have looked different.
@@kohlenkurt3155 even on smaller maps if the general is a decent distance away they will try to snipe characters and mostly ignore the rest of the army. In some cases while being shot by your own artillery... it's been that way since the last DLC was released.
@@kohlenkurt3155 oh they do i jzst downloaded warh 3 and im just looking elsewhere for amin and their whole army is focusing my hero for no reason😊
Isn’t that the truth. How many times their ranged units ignore my infantry and snipe my caster sitting behind my lines. It’s fucking obnoxious
They really made Wind of Death into a playable lord
This was not a disaster battle, it was just Legend committing war crimes!
They're only war crimes if you lose.
Eh, that’s what Chaos do.
"Kholek Gulliver's travels in the lands of the Dawi"
in my greasus campaign, stonehorns have like 14,000 mass and I didn't know how powerful that is until now. I just thought it was neat but now I know that can be potentially very very good. Thanks legend lol
From something Greasus gives them?
@DIEGhostfish greasus campaign effect increases unit mass for all units faction wide, I think it's 15% or more not sure. But that combined with pre-battle feast increases it more, making it roughly 14k, also for the Hunter heros.
Grail knights got more mass now, combined with the triangle formation they act very funny. I easilly get 600 kills per battle with a unit of grail knights.
Kholek did so well the rest of the world was like "ah shit, we better peace out"
LOL. That gave me a good chuckle
sometimes you win a disaster battle so easily it makes me wonder if the submitter just wanted you to see their LL being op
Up until the patch a few days ago that changed the mass of some units this probably would have been a rough fight and Kholek would have been easier to bog down.
@@KamikazKid Not really. It changed the mass of some cav units but not kholek or dragon ogrs, trolls etc etc.
@@KamikazKid kholek always had ridiculous mass. Nothing changed for him
I think sometimes you can underestimate how strong some legendary lords can be.
Submitter prolly didn't know how to use charge attacks properly
This went from SYDB to one man doomstack real quick.
This is another demonstration of how you don't have to use your full army in battles, for those who are new to the channel. If you have powerful single-entity units, they can be sufficient to do the entire battle by themselves while the rest of the army can be reserved to keep your Balance of Power high, giving the enemy an early Army Losses penalty.
Can also keep the army small to entice the AI to engage with weaker armies too.
And if you want to eliminate them down to the man so they don’t retreat to a garrison then withdraw your forces (slow trickle never huge waves) to balance their losses so they’ll stay to fight down to the last.
@@guyincognito1406 would say it's more efficient in that case to have heaps of really fast units in reserve, perhaps a large number of warhounds, so as to block and kill all of the enemy's routing units.
Love the after battle "well I can't win THAT one, that's bloody ridiculous" 😂😂😂
Very Big and Fast Kholek Smashing at Insane Speeds
He's a big boy.
Thorgrim: SHORT?!
@@ElBandito That's going in the book.
For you.
He ate well when he was a little ogre.
Kholek: "Okay you guys hold back here in the woods to protect yourselves from their missile attacks. I'll take the wizards out and soften them up."
*Five minutes later*
"Okay good fight we really stomped them this time."
Honestly this battle is a true testament to how B A D the A.I is.
I really enjoyed the Dwarfs using all their satchel charges on their own men 👍
Dwarf-things are secretly skaven yes-yes!
Lore accurate Kholek can't hurt you he's not real
Lore accurate Kholek:
When people talk about the AI acting differently in your battles, they mean things like the flying shadow and metal wizards being completely ignored while hovering over the entire combined army.
Yeah mine get instantly targeted too.
On harder battle difficulties AI ranged units doesn't shoot small flying entities. On normal and easy I think they do.
@@tunemaki_izlasitrlv6835 ngl I play on very hard I’ve noticed ai just blob up even archers. Idk what they broke cuz wh2 ai 100% would shoot your ass till you died
This tactic is absolutely impossible to excute in WH2 because the enemy will just pepper you with missiles but in WH3 missile units just join the melee
It is so ridiculous
so dumb
Except they did pepper him, he was just a) running through them and forcing them into melee and b) because he was running everywhere he also dodged almost all of them.
@@settratheimperishable4093He didn’t dodge Jack shit, and you can’t dodge much of them, only extraordinarily slow or extraordinarily long range projectiles (fire, catapults). The ai also just stops trying to run it’s ranged units away after you get them into melee once. It’s very inefficient and this strat would suck against a decent ai.
@@erikblomgren592 did you not see the projectiles going where he was half a second ago? It was extremely obvious.
I think this is very lore accurated
the new entity mass changes coming into play. At least they're making cavalry and large units make sense now, it never made sense why a unit of dwarves (yes i understand they have expert charge defense but their individual mass is tiny) could withstand a charge from something like a T Rex. It literally doesn't matter how stout you are or how well you can take a charge if the thing that's charging you can literally just step on you and squash you
It would make more sense if mass had tiers, dwarves should withstand a charge from other infantry and small demons every time but monsters should be on a higher tier which just makes it impossible. That way perhaps even giants could walk through battle lines (AS THEY SHOULD) and be somewhat useful for their size. Same goes with large monsters of other races.
Tiny? That’s going in the book.
@@sageer2585 The book is also small. 😳
@@sageer2585 Small book for a small Dawi.
No, it makes sense for one very clear reason: The game has to happen.
It would have been great to see the sorcerer's final damage amounts
1K kills at least.
Jesus, that was like watching a semi truck drift through a playground.
"they were blown away as if they were Skaven" Now THAT is going into the book.
I'm really glad you're back with steady saving disaster battle uploads, i hope you're enjoying it
Really good point you made there about the forest. I think I was one of those people that didn’t want to put my monsters in the forest before.
It’s a dumb mechanic imo. Missiles should travel between trees fairly easily; monsters are much bigger and therefore can travel between trees… even more easily than tiny projectiles?
@@erikblomgren592 I think the idea is that in battle archers don’t normally aim for a particular target but do valleys of arrows in the direction of the enemy and in that situation a lot of them would get blocked. I think the units like the wood elf archer units that get bonuses in the forest should have their missiles be able to not be disrupted by the forest, since there are more sniper archers. The equivalent to the Indians that fought the British in the French American war.
Okay, going back on this... I just saw Battlesey's video and concluded that this isn't just Kholek. The reason this happens is the crazy mass + acceleration (and deceleration). Basically all cavalry and monstrous units with sufficient speed, mass, acceleration and deceleration can do this (including lords and heroes) and it's amplified if you have the Banner of Swiftness/Wayfarer.
I just tried it myself with a CD Bull Centaur Taur'ruk against a random Tomb Kings small settlement garrison and I got 28K damage and 500 kills in just a few minutes.
The trick is to just click on an enemy unit "behind" the units you also want to charge, as your unit will just charge through everything with low enough mass. This actually has the same vibe as OG Rome/Medieval Total War "charge through" mechanics. Holy cow, is this strong... and fun. I'm actually hoping that they keep this in. Yes, it's incredibly powerful versus infantry, but admittably... the game will be in a much better state if all units become OP in their own way and it's just a matter of timing your attacks. That's much more entertaining (and against players: more challenging) than playing the rock-paper-scissors with minor stat increases along the way.
I think the video's title should be: "The Grudgemower 11.000" hahah the suneater goes brrrrt
Honestly I don’t think that mass is overpowered. What’s happening is exactly what should happen when an 80 foot tall monster runs through a group of 4ft infantry.
Lawnmower defeats two 2 dawi stacks with the help of his spooky friend
manlet mower
You know shit got serious when Legend is using *SEVERAL* control groups!
Normal difficulty would’ve been harder
i usually play on hard battle difficulty, and both my heroes would be dead before kholek even reached the frontline.
@@bogdanleshenko7149 I think the AI handles it differently on lower difficulties, for some reason, on highest difficulty it refuses to shoot the small casters, but on lower, as far as i have experienced, they will just turn every single ranged unit on one of my heroes randomly.
Viewer: Hey Legend! Can you help me with this disaster battle ?
Legend: Sure i can rate your doomstack.
V: But it's not a doomstack.
L: Hold my beer!
V: :O
Audience: :O
9:00 Jesus Christ, 11:00 Kholek and his wizards cause army loses with zero casualties on their side.
Its videos like this that want to make me play certain factions
Turned into a dwarf disaster battle real quick 😂
This was beautiful. Thank you. 😮❤
this should go into the book: F=ma
Alternative title: Kholek destroys innumerable dwarfs with his GIRTH.
And on this day Kholek earned his newest title "dwarf lawnmower"
The dwarfs are gonna need to create a book just for Legend
You can hear the astonishment in his voice when it works so well
Glad to see they implemented the Killdozer in TotalWar
When Legend takes your hardest fights and most keenly laid plans and plays with them like toys....
"I move FAST!"
You sure do buddy, and anything be damned that gets in the way
"What you doing with all that Mass ? Double-legged up, on a Sunday afternoon..."
Such a MASSterful performance from Kholek
You forgot to rate the doomstack.
"Hi Legend, my army can't kill these dwarven armies."
*Legend proceeds to win the fight without using his army.
A disaster battle indeed, that dwarfen tidal wave was killing
I was watching that massive swarm at about 6:50 and just thinking how beautiful a skaven nuke would have been right there.
I'm getting Skarbrand flashbacks seeing Kholek charge around like that.
Lore of death may be my favorite lore. Between the slow, scythe and pit of shades it just has something for every situation
in an alternate timeline, kholek is a wonderful sheepdog.
Did Kholek got any bug fixes recently?
I once managed to vassalize 100ish AIs and Kholek grew so big I could not play him anymore. Each time a battle would have loaded the game crashed. I don't know if it was a feature or just the lack of my potato.
I bet those dwarves were hoping they wouldnt see the Big Iron on the ranger's hip...
MOVING QUICKLY, I MOVE FAST!
Always upgrade to armored trolls, their staying power is a lot better, and take a lot less casualties in auto res. My favourite unit in Chaos armies nowadays, cheap, plentiful, regen and ap, delicious.
You can hear the excitement in Legends voice when he discovers a new flavour of cheese.
I feel this makes up for the way the kholek doomstack video went with the lack of chargethroughs, this is so therapeutic
6:36 Poor Thorgrim getting hosed with pieces of his men just before that monster whacks him. So good
AI when they see a impossible to hold down lord and a spellcaster with amazing AoE spells:
"Time to blob! And don't forget to send in the ranged units!"
Massive Monster Mashes Mini Marchers.
"I've even set up my control groups" - the dissapointment in Legend's voive xDDDD
I could see him being a one man doomstack. Get perfect vigor on him and it’s gg. If he doesn’t stop in one area he won’t die at all.
He did that once...sent Kholek against 4 armies of Tomb Kings Endgame Crisis and Kholek won.
@@MrRawrCEO with this type of mass?
Perfect vigor and Sword of Khaine or other unbreakable.
Kolek is an insane one man doomstack, absolutely wrecks single entities too when needed
Okay now the dwarfs are SHORT compared to this🤣
Hey legend what happen to that video "Gordaz Backstabber stronger on foot than mounted" I was interested in this one, (btw love Your videos).
Oh legend CA should make an honorary character for you in a faction of your choosing looking just like you 😊
it would be in chaos or skaven then :^)
Was a disaster battle but for thorgrimm
"I MOVE FAST". Yep, he truely does
They are all clumped together like “kill him PLEASE!”
This is how I win my battles vs. end game dwarves as vampires. Just put a tanky unit in the middle and pit of shadows :) Nice one
This reminds me of good old WH2 battles. Send my lord and wizards out, lord dives in, wizard goes nuts.
Dwarves? You mean screaming speedbumps.
"Welcome to your one man disaster stack with legend of total war"
Lol, the CC read "legend of terrible here" when he zips through the greetings like that.
I did a similar thing in my recent Khorne campaign. Skarbrand has 6000 mass, add in a strider banner. A 3 full stack army? No problem, you only need one command, "take a walk."
"Thorgrim's declared war on Heralds of the Tempest!"
Brilliant, so how are they doing?
"In the first engagement, The Dwarves lost nearly two thousand good soldiers."
... And what about the Heralds of the Tempest?
"What about them? Heralds of the Tempest hasn't even arrived yet."
The grail knights are kind of similar now too by the way Legend. They basically run through anything like butter
When you accidentally make a doomstack but don't know how to use it, so Papa Legend shows you how
thats a big boy
I MOVE FAST
- big boy
Dwarfs all running away while their high king gets beaten to death with a hammer. Lots of new Slayers today.
What a massacre of massive proportions from all that mass being massterfully deployed on those poor dwarves.
Looks like mass really was buffed, maybe bretonnia will be fun now
Yo count that Oathgold before the Juggernaut gets here...
All those stunties flying around^^
Legend, please make a video of you using the new grail knights. You always do things with the most efficiency, and I’d love to see how you use them now they have larger mass.
Put ‘em in lance formation and send em at any enemy in the game. That’s how you use grail knights now.
@@GreenGrundle I am getting 600+ kill games with the Fay's starting Guardians against greenskin and skaven.
Them dwarves litteraly been stompeds.
Kholek out here playing dwarf soccer, like a goddamn ballpit for him
12:00 thorgrim being pushed around like a shopping cart
the entire dwarven armed forces? or one big boi and his wizard? yeah... that's what I thought.
One Man Saving Your Disaster Stack.