I think my favourite part of this video was learning about all of the artifacts found - It's easy to forget just how rural Parramatta once was, and this is a lovely reminder. Thanks for the video as always Paul.
Thank you for the update Paul. I live in Cherrybrook since 2000 ... just 500m from where Cherrybrook metro station is located. When Premier Barry O'Farrell won the 2011 NSW Election ... I was so happy as he had promised to deliver us the rail line extension to the Hills District. When Sydney Metro (Northwest line) was opened in 2019 exactly 5 years ago today, it has been a life changing for my family I and myself. It would be really good if you had started Transport Vlog since the early 2010's then I would be much more informed about the Northwest line that time. Right now ... I can't wait to ride Sydney Metro from Cherrybrook to Sydney CBD sooooooooooon!
at the site of the Cherrybrook station there was a house got renovated as a childcare centre, fully completed and probably functioning, only to be demolished completely for the station box. Hope the owner was compensated well for the ordeal. I got to talk to a senior engineer on the project from the beginning, he often says they are about 6 months ahead of the schedule. The wonders of private enterprise. I also know a lady who works in the airport metro project now, over the years she was working on the Barangaroo site among others.
Hi @hermangouw, I actually started taking photos of the Metro NW stations back in 2018, and also in 2019, and yes I wish I'd started Transport Vlog then. I was on one of the first trains on opening day, and got off at Cherrybrook to go bush walking! Yes, its going to be so exciting to see metro NW connected to the CBD.
I have Arrived at School and i was a bit concerned that the Bus Stop Named Epping Road and Crimea Road Stop got Knocked Down to built a New Shelter. The Fence was covering it and the Only Way to Get through was to Dangerously get on the Road and Back on the Footpath then to Gate 3 at Epping Boys High School.
The engineering and scope, scale of this project is immense. For comparision, the Epping to Chatswood Rail link took seven years to be constructed - ignoring the planning stages prior. This project is far longer and larger than that project was, and that's not to say that the ECRL wasn't a massive undertaking.
We are still waiting for the light rail to open not only am I not surprised it will take another 8 years, I will be surprised if it is not delayed and takes longer.
@@kurtg5405 I understand that, especially with all the archaeological investigations happening. But it's insane to think they began construction in 2020 with an expected date of 2027 initially, just to stretch to 2032. That's 12 years of construction in total with insane cost blowouts.
@@mgp1203 its more like 10 years of construction, which is generally the norm when constructing large scale transport projects, the additional 2 is just for the station at Rosehill, which might not even happen, it depends on if the racecourse wants to sell their land and government commitment.
amzing how sydney lets the public tour their construction sites. In Brisbane they try to board everything up with "Nothing to see here written everywhere". Our state government loves to keep everything top secret
This is quite a recent thing. Basically, written into the contracts for Sydney Metro West (and Airport metro) is a requirement to have regular open days. It's a great idea and a win win for everyone. I'm sure Cross River Rail will have open days when the stations are almost complete (similar to what we've been having on the City & Southwest section). Also, in case you didn't know, the new Exhibition Station will be open for the Ekka show in August.
Hi Paul, excellent video. It will be interesting when this station eventually opens. quite fascinating about all the ancient relics found when building the station. I gather they haven't found any dinosaur bones found there as yet. Incidentally, will the new Westmead station also be underground? Anyway, all the very best. Rob in Melbourne Australia.
I would love to understand the decision processes behind the differing choices of traction power and rolling stock between the 3 metro lines. I am completely puzzled by how we have come to have 3 incompatible lines. Why weren't the advantages of commonality between the lines prioritised over whatever other factors have led to this baffling incompatible mixture? Or perhaps the benefits of commonality were of such a lower value to the value of these other factors? To a lay person, this choice of differing systems seems to only add costs and complexity that would otherwise be unnecessary well into the future.
There is absolutely no advantage of commonality between the lines. The lines rolling stock will never run on another line so waste of time and money to do so. The lines are completely separate and are designed based on the need. For example Northwest and City and Southwest uses 1500v DC voltage because it's converted from Sydney Trains back when it was electrified almost a century ago it was the best they can do. The modern standard is 25kv AC and has many advantages e.g. the higher voltage means you don't need to build as many substations. Sydney metro WSA have wider bodies for luggage and is 3-4 car sets which is more than enough capacity (and the business case days so) for a long time. You would never join them together anyway. The last thing you would want is like Sydney trains when the entire network and all the lines go down because of a malfunction at a single station.
Agreed - also puzzled - perhaps some missing info. I also wonder about the inability to provide express services from, for example, Tallawong to the city. Imagine if every train commuter in Penrith could only catch an all-stations train into the city. As the area around Marsden Park and Schofields develops further, and the demand on the Metro grows, there will need to be a parallel express track introduced. 🤷♂
@@TomHommus But what about the extra costs? 3 different systems (including signaling) mean 3 different management organisations for the lines. 3 organisations with all the usual levels of top of management, middle management, engineering, support services, etc. 3 inventories of differing spare parts, 3 different skill and experience sets to up-keep in your human resources. Keep in mind this will be critical infrastructure, requiring extra redundancy, and those 'support' services will be expensive - i.e. defending against cyber threats, etc. Those management and maintenance increased overheads will add up to billions over the years. Billions that may not have to have been spent. Also the loss of future flexibility and expansion options. If you wanted a single station to be the terminus of 2 incompatible lines, that is will make that station much more expensive. Just thoughts. I hope the planners carefully looked at and costed all the options. It would be nice for those planning decisions to be more transparent and public.
@@FlightEagle what extra costs? Sydney metro has way lower opex costs than trains. Sydney trains has multiple train sets, they have multiple depots and multiple parts they need to maintain. Drivers for example have to be qualified for specific sets if I'm not mistaken. So it's no different to trains. It's just under one banner. NSW government owns everything anyway throughout the entire public transport network (Airport line stations excluded) it's just contracted out to specific companies to maintain. For example if you were to have a compatible network then the new lines would have to be 1500v DC which means more substations and maintenance for no reason as the sets will only run on their respective lines. Are we going to use the wide body siemens trains for the entire network? Or maintain 8 car sets for the WSA when the business case says it's not needed (especially when it will be quaded in the future) to maintain compatibility that we will never use? We're not the only ones doing it. Look at Victoria their suburban rail loop will be standard gauge (vs broad gauge) and will be 25kv AC similar to us.
@@rickneill6924 why would you need an express service? It's 20 mins to Parramatta for all the stops which is faster than the current 25-27 mins "express" train stopping only at Redfern and Strathfield. Express trains causes lopsided development because noone wants to live in a smaller station. All stations means everyone gets the next metro that comes along. At 20 mins it's already an express service.
Interesting about the power supply being different to the other metro lines. Will the st marys airport link be AC powered as well? And will all new metro lines be AC powered from hereonin ? Seems counter intuitive that metro west can't use the rest of the metro lines!
Hi Paul, Yes the Airport Metro is also 25KV AC. When you look at metros around the world, you'll find that trains are dedicated to a particular line. That's normal practice. I think future metro's will also be 25KV, unless they involve the conversion of existing train lines, but even then, the voltage could be upgraded to 25 KV AC on any lines that are converted.
Because they don't want people to change at Parramatta. If you really want to, you should be able to walk to the Metro station in 5-10 mins. Westmead Metro station is right next to the Sydney Trains station, and that is the preferred interchange. The light rail is a bit problematic though, depending on where you want to go.
Very interesting to see archilogical items that have been left hidden that happened in the past before the Parramatta city centre Car park was built and parra mall. I'm looking forward for the Parramatta light rail to open but I thought it was going to open in May this year but since we are coming towards the end of May this year do you or someone else knows when the Parramatta light rail will open?
No date on the light rail (at least officially). Assuming testing goes smoothly, around late August has been mentioned in the media. Not sure if that is an educated guess, or if someone knows something.
They basically work out how many trains are required for a 4 minute headway, and then add some spares for maintenance. The train order for Sydney Metro West hasn't happened yet, so it may be slightly more or less than 20 trains.
Hi Peter, it's to allow testing to take place on the new section and also for software upgrades. Getting the existing NW line to integrate seamlessly with the new section to Sydenham is one of the more tricky parts of the project. When it opens, the late evening service will be restored, along with weekends (maybe the occasional shutdown), but nothing like the last few months.
@TransportVlog yes understand with the newline, but it has been happening after covid . It is not that great later in the evening. Maybe you can ask who ever, I have tried with no luck .
Since the Westmead Metro station will be underground , and form an interchange with the existing Westmead station , will the two be connected for pedestrian access? If so , will this be by tunnel or an extension of the existing pedestrian bridge over the roadway ?
Yes they will. Probably via a pedestrian bridge that will go over the road. Plans are still at an early stage, but the idea is to make this interchange as good as possible, bearing in mind the different levels.
29m is very deep (10 stories) and I'm concerned about the connections through to the existing heavy rail station and the Light Rail. Every exit traverse and entry adds to transport time for passengers. Nearly every station built by NSW Rail has bad switchback escalators on multiple levels and oddly placed lifts that make connections both non-obvious and slow. It would also be an addition to quality urban experience if all the concourses were lined with cafés, bars, food and other commercial space to add life. I have a horrible feeling that we are going to get the usual engineered ugly empty spaces.
Hi Peter, 29 metres is the depth of the box, the platforms will probably be around 25 metres deep. The tunnels have to go below the foundations of existing buildings, and that's why its quite deep in Parramatta CBD. There is always a balance to be had between what is possible in terms of construction and getting the quickest and shortest interchange. Westmead will be the recommended interchange between Trains and Metro, so the main interchanges in Parramatta will be with light rail and buses. There are definitely cafes retail and plaza areas incorporated into the design.
@@murraykitson1436 I get that the walk will be long if the station is big, but gnash my teeth when the walk is just stupid design. Green Square and Bondi Junction are classic "How Not To..." What is wrong with Central is the Southern Concourse is only accessible from the far Eastern end and the Centre Concourse does not cross under the Country platforms. You can spend 10-15 min just getting out of Central or switching to another platform. The worst of the suburban platforms are the deep Airport line, hard to find, hard to get in and out, hard to make sense of.
I think my favourite part of this video was learning about all of the artifacts found - It's easy to forget just how rural Parramatta once was, and this is a lovely reminder. Thanks for the video as always Paul.
Yes, the artefacts and history is fascinating! Glad you enjoyed this video.
Such good detail they went into - thanks for delivering it!
You're very welcome! Glad you enjoyed it.
Thank you for the update Paul.
I live in Cherrybrook since 2000 ... just 500m from where Cherrybrook metro station is located.
When Premier Barry O'Farrell won the 2011 NSW Election ... I was so happy as he had promised to deliver us the rail line extension to the Hills District.
When Sydney Metro (Northwest line) was opened in 2019 exactly 5 years ago today, it has been a life changing for my family I and myself.
It would be really good if you had started Transport Vlog since the early 2010's then I would be much more informed about the Northwest line that time.
Right now ... I can't wait to ride Sydney Metro from Cherrybrook to Sydney CBD sooooooooooon!
at the site of the Cherrybrook station there was a house got renovated as a childcare centre, fully completed and probably functioning, only to be demolished completely for the station box. Hope the owner was compensated well for the ordeal. I got to talk to a senior engineer on the project from the beginning, he often says they are about 6 months ahead of the schedule. The wonders of private enterprise. I also know a lady who works in the airport metro project now, over the years she was working on the Barangaroo site among others.
Hi @hermangouw, I actually started taking photos of the Metro NW stations back in 2018, and also in 2019, and yes I wish I'd started Transport Vlog then. I was on one of the first trains on opening day, and got off at Cherrybrook to go bush walking! Yes, its going to be so exciting to see metro NW connected to the CBD.
Hi @Woodland26, thanks for sharing what was there before! Great to hear that you've chatted with some of the engineers.
Yay! My old friend Amanda doing the archaeology tour!
Amanda's great! So enthusiastic!
thank you Metro and Metro west for increasing my home's value, not to mention the convenience they bring to me.
That's one of the things that happens when you improve public transport!
Yeah because your house isn't already worth a lot of money!
Great video, great questions and fab answers!
Thanks! - glad you enjoyed it.
Hi paul great to hear from you and this was amazing video I enjoy your channel because you are amazing Supporter
Thanks Edward, Glad you enjoyed it so much!
Excellent work as always - fun, polite, factual, respectful, and informative presentation revealing your dedication and passion for your subject.
Thanks Peter, glad you enjoyed it! Dan did most of the work on this one!
Thanks Paul. Very interesting and informative. Fascinating archaeology! 🔍
Glad you enjoyed it Rick
Great detail. Really good interview and good explanations of the detail and difficulties. Good engineering too Dan.
Thanks Mitch. Glad you enjoyed it. Yes Dan explained the engineering concepts in.a really fun and captivating way.
Another great video! Thank you Paul for all your efforts in keeping us up-to-date. Cheers from Europe, Rick
You're very welcome Rick. Glad you enjoyed it, and always good to hear from European viewers
Wow Paul !! ThankYou for the video.
You're very welcome
Excellent video Paul
Thanks Chad
I have Arrived at School and i was a bit concerned that the Bus Stop Named Epping Road and Crimea Road Stop got Knocked Down to built a New Shelter. The Fence was covering it and the Only Way to Get through was to Dangerously get on the Road and Back on the Footpath then to Gate 3 at Epping Boys High School.
Still can't believe it'll take another 8 years to complete...
…
The engineering and scope, scale of this project is immense. For comparision, the Epping to Chatswood Rail link took seven years to be constructed - ignoring the planning stages prior. This project is far longer and larger than that project was, and that's not to say that the ECRL wasn't a massive undertaking.
We are still waiting for the light rail to open not only am I not surprised it will take another 8 years, I will be surprised if it is not delayed and takes longer.
@@kurtg5405 I understand that, especially with all the archaeological investigations happening. But it's insane to think they began construction in 2020 with an expected date of 2027 initially, just to stretch to 2032. That's 12 years of construction in total with insane cost blowouts.
@@mgp1203 its more like 10 years of construction, which is generally the norm when constructing large scale transport projects, the additional 2 is just for the station at Rosehill, which might not even happen, it depends on if the racecourse wants to sell their land and government commitment.
amzing how sydney lets the public tour their construction sites. In Brisbane they try to board everything up with "Nothing to see here written everywhere". Our state government loves to keep everything top secret
This is quite a recent thing. Basically, written into the contracts for Sydney Metro West (and Airport metro) is a requirement to have regular open days. It's a great idea and a win win for everyone. I'm sure Cross River Rail will have open days when the stations are almost complete (similar to what we've been having on the City & Southwest section). Also, in case you didn't know, the new Exhibition Station will be open for the Ekka show in August.
So much great info! Cheers
Thanks Jim, glad you enjoyed it.
Hi Paul, excellent video. It will be interesting when this station eventually opens. quite fascinating about all the ancient relics found when building the station. I gather they haven't found any dinosaur bones found there as yet. Incidentally, will the new Westmead station also be underground? Anyway, all the very best. Rob in Melbourne Australia.
Hi Rob, glad you enjoyed it. He He! No Dinosaur bones yet! Yes Westmead station will also be underground.
Interesting to note that from the city via Metro, Westmead is after Parramatta, where it is before Parramatta with Sydney trains.
@@RGC198no it isn’t
Oops, yes you are correct. I have been away from Sydney too long.
I would love to understand the decision processes behind the differing choices of traction power and rolling stock between the 3 metro lines. I am completely puzzled by how we have come to have 3 incompatible lines. Why weren't the advantages of commonality between the lines prioritised over whatever other factors have led to this baffling incompatible mixture? Or perhaps the benefits of commonality were of such a lower value to the value of these other factors? To a lay person, this choice of differing systems seems to only add costs and complexity that would otherwise be unnecessary well into the future.
There is absolutely no advantage of commonality between the lines.
The lines rolling stock will never run on another line so waste of time and money to do so.
The lines are completely separate and are designed based on the need.
For example Northwest and City and Southwest uses 1500v DC voltage because it's converted from Sydney Trains back when it was electrified almost a century ago it was the best they can do.
The modern standard is 25kv AC and has many advantages e.g. the higher voltage means you don't need to build as many substations.
Sydney metro WSA have wider bodies for luggage and is 3-4 car sets which is more than enough capacity (and the business case days so) for a long time.
You would never join them together anyway. The last thing you would want is like Sydney trains when the entire network and all the lines go down because of a malfunction at a single station.
Agreed - also puzzled - perhaps some missing info. I also wonder about the inability to provide express services from, for example, Tallawong to the city. Imagine if every train commuter in Penrith could only catch an all-stations train into the city. As the area around Marsden Park and Schofields develops further, and the demand on the Metro grows, there will need to be a parallel express track introduced. 🤷♂
@@TomHommus But what about the extra costs? 3 different systems (including signaling) mean 3 different management organisations for the lines. 3 organisations with all the usual levels of top of management, middle management, engineering, support services, etc. 3 inventories of differing spare parts, 3 different skill and experience sets to up-keep in your human resources. Keep in mind this will be critical infrastructure, requiring extra redundancy, and those 'support' services will be expensive - i.e. defending against cyber threats, etc. Those management and maintenance increased overheads will add up to billions over the years. Billions that may not have to have been spent. Also the loss of future flexibility and expansion options. If you wanted a single station to be the terminus of 2 incompatible lines, that is will make that station much more expensive. Just thoughts. I hope the planners carefully looked at and costed all the options. It would be nice for those planning decisions to be more transparent and public.
@@FlightEagle what extra costs? Sydney metro has way lower opex costs than trains.
Sydney trains has multiple train sets, they have multiple depots and multiple parts they need to maintain. Drivers for example have to be qualified for specific sets if I'm not mistaken.
So it's no different to trains. It's just under one banner. NSW government owns everything anyway throughout the entire public transport network (Airport line stations excluded) it's just contracted out to specific companies to maintain.
For example if you were to have a compatible network then the new lines would have to be 1500v DC which means more substations and maintenance for no reason as the sets will only run on their respective lines.
Are we going to use the wide body siemens trains for the entire network? Or maintain 8 car sets for the WSA when the business case says it's not needed (especially when it will be quaded in the future) to maintain compatibility that we will never use?
We're not the only ones doing it. Look at Victoria their suburban rail loop will be standard gauge (vs broad gauge) and will be 25kv AC similar to us.
@@rickneill6924 why would you need an express service? It's 20 mins to Parramatta for all the stops which is faster than the current 25-27 mins "express" train stopping only at Redfern and Strathfield.
Express trains causes lopsided development because noone wants to live in a smaller station. All stations means everyone gets the next metro that comes along.
At 20 mins it's already an express service.
Nice
Interesting about the power supply being different to the other metro lines. Will the st marys airport link be AC powered as well? And will all new metro lines be AC powered from hereonin ? Seems counter intuitive that metro west can't use the rest of the metro lines!
Apparently incompatible also. Wider trains on airport link
Hi Paul, Yes the Airport Metro is also 25KV AC. When you look at metros around the world, you'll find that trains are dedicated to a particular line. That's normal practice. I think future metro's will also be 25KV, unless they involve the conversion of existing train lines, but even then, the voltage could be upgraded to 25 KV AC on any lines that are converted.
I would like to see this metro line come in to service a month early and 1% under budget just to annoy the doubters.😊
I think Metro NW came in under budget, so it does happen sometimes!
So impressed with the engineering and the video. So depressed about the planning.... why isn't heavy rail, light rail and metro fully integrated?
Ummm. Because they're different.
@@peterelvery ...and of course no one would ever want to transfer between tram and metro, or metro and train.
@@jack2453 Ah! I thought by "fully integrated" you meant merged or unified. Do you mean, why are the stations not co-located?
Because they don't want people to change at Parramatta. If you really want to, you should be able to walk to the Metro station in 5-10 mins. Westmead Metro station is right next to the Sydney Trains station, and that is the preferred interchange. The light rail is a bit problematic though, depending on where you want to go.
@@daveg2104 All confirms my view that Sydney Metro is more about ribbon cutting opportunities than meeting actual transport needs.
Very interesting to see archilogical items that have been left hidden that happened in the past before the Parramatta city centre Car park was built and parra mall. I'm looking forward for the Parramatta light rail to open but I thought it was going to open in May this year but since we are coming towards the end of May this year do you or someone else knows when the Parramatta light rail will open?
No date on the light rail (at least officially). Assuming testing goes smoothly, around late August has been mentioned in the media. Not sure if that is an educated guess, or if someone knows something.
Yes I've heard late August too, but I can't remember who I heard that from - probably the media too.
How do they decide on the number of trains that are needed on each line?
They basically work out how many trains are required for a 4 minute headway, and then add some spares for maintenance. The train order for Sydney Metro West hasn't happened yet, so it may be slightly more or less than 20 trains.
@@TransportVlog thanks very much!
Nice video, thanks, gained a sub :-)
You're very welcome, thanks for subscribing.
Hi Paul can you tell me why the metro north shuts down so early on week days and weekends
Hi Peter, it's to allow testing to take place on the new section and also for software upgrades. Getting the existing NW line to integrate seamlessly with the new section to Sydenham is one of the more tricky parts of the project. When it opens, the late evening service will be restored, along with weekends (maybe the occasional shutdown), but nothing like the last few months.
@TransportVlog yes understand with the newline, but it has been happening after covid . It is not that great later in the evening. Maybe you can ask who ever, I have tried with no luck .
Since the Westmead Metro station will be underground , and form an interchange with the existing Westmead station , will the two be connected for pedestrian access? If so , will this be by tunnel or an extension of the existing pedestrian bridge over the roadway ?
Yes they will. Probably via a pedestrian bridge that will go over the road. Plans are still at an early stage, but the idea is to make this interchange as good as possible, bearing in mind the different levels.
I didn't quite catch what was said. Can the line be extended beyond Hunter Street?
Yes it can. There will be stub tunnels to allow further extensions to the east or south.
@@TransportVlog Fantastic! The Sydney Cricket Ground area is screaming out for a metro train station. Thank you for your reply 🙂
At least that one lady's excited about all the bottles and butcher bones and rubble lol
YOOOO
Must have a station at SILVERWATER.
Yes I'd love to see a station there, especially as a box is being excavated anyway for emergency egress and tunnel ventilation.
We have to wait another 6 years for this to be done :(
Probably 8 years, as its now planned to open in 2032.
29m is very deep (10 stories) and I'm concerned about the connections through to the existing heavy rail station and the Light Rail. Every exit traverse and entry adds to transport time for passengers.
Nearly every station built by NSW Rail has bad switchback escalators on multiple levels and oddly placed lifts that make connections both non-obvious and slow.
It would also be an addition to quality urban experience if all the concourses were lined with cafés, bars, food and other commercial space to add life.
I have a horrible feeling that we are going to get the usual engineered ugly empty spaces.
Hi Peter, 29 metres is the depth of the box, the platforms will probably be around 25 metres deep. The tunnels have to go below the foundations of existing buildings, and that's why its quite deep in Parramatta CBD. There is always a balance to be had between what is possible in terms of construction and getting the quickest and shortest interchange. Westmead will be the recommended interchange between Trains and Metro, so the main interchanges in Parramatta will be with light rail and buses. There are definitely cafes retail and plaza areas incorporated into the design.
@@murraykitson1436 I get that the walk will be long if the station is big, but gnash my teeth when the walk is just stupid design. Green Square and Bondi Junction are classic "How Not To..."
What is wrong with Central is the Southern Concourse is only accessible from the far Eastern end and the Centre Concourse does not cross under the Country platforms. You can spend 10-15 min just getting out of Central or switching to another platform.
The worst of the suburban platforms are the deep Airport line, hard to find, hard to get in and out, hard to make sense of.
Will Sydney Metro West Reduce the Congestion on Parramatta Road?
Yes it should do Ethan, by giving people a faster alternative to driving.
2032 is so far away. I will be 28 years old then.
And I'll be in my 60s!
Should we remove the T2 Branch to Parramatta? The T2 is Causing a Bottleneck and Merged with T5.
Yes, possibly.
Good thing no hair will get into those works
Yep! - It's probably also a hygiene thing too, as the hard hats are shared.