Believe me. Can be very different. I had no love at home and now I am breaking generational traumas and curses with very loving and caring home. It could be, but not every time ❤️
I love when the Lord gives you a desire in your heart and then provides wonderful resources like your channel to bless, encourage and give some resources and direction how to execute that desire. Thank you both for your work and effort to strengthen the body of Christ in how we make the most of the time the Lord gives us with our family in the home. 💕🙏
We don’t have any TVs. We read the Bible and do family worship at supper. Everyone is at the table until we are all done. Afterwards we all help clean. One clears dishes, one sweeps, one washes the chairs….etc. We play worship music while we do it. Sometimes I will play music on the guitar or ukulele while we clean.
So refreshing seeing parents who actually know how to parent and who have a growth mindset! I hope to find a man with whom I can do a similar thing for our kids 🥰
Thank you for clarifying the expectations when starting a routine and how often the routine is! Small details but so helpful to not feel like we’ve failed! 😂
I just adore every video y’all share ☺️ our family is first generation homeschoolers (neither my husband or I have been homeschooled) and I’ve been so encouraged by the joy and love, so present in y’all’s home. Thanks for sharing your family routines, training, and teamwork!
I love this. We have kids all the way up to 14 and activities feel like they have taken over our evenings. I wanted to watch this for ideas on reclaiming our evenings.
I started my screen free journey about a week ago and I don't regret it one bit. My house is way more peaceful and I know that with God's help this will bring us more close. Screens devid families they bring so much chaos and confusion.
First generation homeschoolers and Christians too! So we are trying our best to forge the way of new family habits & heritage with our littles. Thanks for your content I love your channel
Eline from the Netherlands here, I’m so very blessed by your channel. Thank you so much, it gave me the right inspiration to take on the right proactive attitude as a mom again.
I love this evening routine idea!! As a family we are studying the new testament this year and hope to study in the evenings together. This has given an idea of what we can do to make it more regular and also, more family centered. I also love the idea of child training! My kids have a very hard time at church.
Thank you for sharing. We’ve been living in a camper for like a year since hubby was fired for not getting the glitter but he switched to claims adjusting so we travel full time in airbnbs and can get back to our screen free life again.
I recently came across your channel. The first one I was about your Sabbath prep! And I knew this would be a Christian channel... And the rest is history (I mean like love at first sight kinda thing) I went through the precious Q and A videos and screen free family video and many other. I could also introduce to my hubby. Needless to say, Katie and Elisha you're such an inspiration to lead a beautiful Christian family! Love from Vellore, TN, India.
Ich bin auch ohne Fernseher und Handy aufgewachsen. Und es tat uns allen gut. Heute wird man mit allen Müll im Fernsehen und Internet beworfen dass man seinen eigenen Weg kaum ebnen kann. Ich danke euch dafür dass ihr das mit uns teilt. Ich freue mich dass es solche tollen liebevollen Eltern gibt deren Erziehung wirklich am Herzen liegt und danach strebt was Gott gefällt. Alles Liebe und viele Grüße aus Deutschland.
Your podcast and UA-cam videos have been the #1 contributor to my journey into screen-free parenting! Now in also trying to transition into my own screen-free lifestyle as a mother. BUT, I use UA-cam pretty frequently at night for cooking inspiration and meal recipes. I also post stories about the kiddos. Do you ever regret losing those moments? Or not sharing those moments? I have been praying for God to shift my priorities if it is not His will for them to be posted.
I love learning how you work together to get everything done and build such great relationships with each other and the kids! I've been fearful about being good enough as a mother, but seeing how you do it is so empowering and I am so excited for the day when I get to start a family of my own 🥰
Love this! Also, total random side note: Digging the new streamlined style you guys created for the video content. Looks polished and has a very inviting feel. The instructive content surrounding the Christian fam is also great and super practical- can totally see this being a lifelong ministry for you two!
This Looks so peacefull and wholesome. Great advice: I really start implementing parts of your advice in our faimilylife of 5 here in Germany. Thank you so much!
Such a beautiful family! Thank you for sharing! I really enjoyed watching! We do have tv’s but typically watch 30-60 mins as a family. I have a list of a ton of clean movies. As a full-time working mommy who homeschools, this helps me to just relax. However as a believer, I just love how peaceful and loving your family time is together during Bible reading and worship! Praise God! 🙌🏼🙌🏼 Beautiful! ❤️
I grew up in Bonners Ferry! Even farther north. Haha! You are living in the area I call home. I hope you love it there! I’m all the way across the country raising my family in Vermont now. My brother lives in CDA though!
This is so beautiful! Thank you for sharing! At first it seemed like what can be screen free and relaxing at the same time? But this did look really engaging and restful! Thank you for showing it’s possible! I look up to you guys! Currently my 4 boys mostly just play rough and run around and we have prayer time before bed, but I want to incorporate more regular bible time and enjoy evening together not separately after dinner. Thanks again! Blessings!
I also wanted to add I love that this is an intentional family training time to sit or to show what they learned. We need more training to sit as well without being silly or interrupting with good manners. This prolonged reading time is a good excercise! Now to just get past the training and not give up😅
absolutely love this... I also was excited to hear you mention Mary Cecily Barker; I grew up listening to a lullaby album that put her flower fairy poems to music. I couldn't wait to share that with my kids .
I would love to know about recitations where to find them and how do you do them? We were a screen free family until the pandemic hit...and it went from us being outdoors and having fun to indoors and on the screen...the pandemic ended but the screen time didn't. So I found your channel and even though my kids are older, the youngest is 8 and my oldest is 14 I am learning a lot from you guys and also I am remembering how we were prior pandemic...it gets harder when the kids get older and they want to do their own thing...I miss sooooo much when my kids were your kids age...Please enjoy it, love it, keep your eyes open because in a blink of an eye it is over...teens are a totally different beast! haha...I love you guys already.
I love this channel :) and my son's birthday is February 6th, too, and he will be 2 years old! I was surprised how well he sits still! My son would be grabbing the guitar and joining in on the speaking- I need him to learn how to sit still and wait.
That's probably only because he is learning from his older siblings. He sees that they sit and listen so he wants to copy them. My 3 year old can sit still for 10 minutes maximum :D
This is like a dream. I have 2 young kids and would love to do this. However my husband is very far from God at the moment (and has been for about 5 years). It is so difficult to try things like this with him. I get a lot of push back. He loves his TV and every night wants the kids to just sit with him and watch it till bedtime. Please pray for us.
I love this! But what do you both do once the kids go to bed? Do you spend time together? Have me time? And what do you do together? I feel like once my kids go to bed I don’t know how to spend quality time with my husband so we both spend time on our phones.
Wow I loved this ❤! The recitations are such a great idea and I love that it also teaches them the word but also confidence, speech, and public speaking skills. I’m definitely taking notes and implementing a lot of these amazing tips. Thank you for this blessing ❤
Thank you for sharing this! Will look forward to integrating some of these tips into our family routine. Evenings are often the loudest and most stressful here and creating a restful environment like this really is key. God bless you guys!
What do you recommend when you & your husband are not on the same page with this? How do you figure out a way to build a family together if you both come from different family environments that breed different philosophies? Me & My husband have the same core values - and we got married and realized (despite extensive discussions - I guess some things just don't come out until later xD) that we have different opinions on how to implement those core values into our life and our family. Any advice commenters?
Katie and family great videos. Thank you. Just wanted to check and see how your parents are? Haven’t seen them post videos on their channel for a long time…
Can you talk more about how you train the youngest to sit ? Do you just require him to sit in your lap when the story is being red and if he runs away do you just pick him right back up and have them sit on your lap I’d like to know a little bit more about that so I can help my son thank you
I’d like to know more about this too! It sometimes gets to be a not so good association when I’m having to discipline them for jumping on the couch or being loud etc while daddy is trying to read. How to train them to be respectful & to sit & listen. How long did you read from the Bible in the beginning to keep it fun & a positive association for 4yo, 3yo, 18month old. I’ve watched all the obedience training videos you’ve put out and still need more help understanding some things 😅
First generation homeschoolers over here as well and even though Ive been homeschooling my 9 year old since preschool your channel is still such an inspiration! Could you share where you got your dress from?! I love it! Noticed someone else from the comment section also asked
Thank you both so much for sharing this with us and for your time! It is incredibly encouraging and I have been so blessed by your channel. I’ve thanked God several times for placing your content in my path as it came at a very needed time.
Thank you for this video! This is what my hubby and I do with our 4 littles as well it has been such a blessing. Wanted to ask what you do on sick days? That is when I pull out the movies but kind of wonder if there is something better to do
I view movies as a strategic tool. They are not the enemy, nor should they replace real, quality time with your kids. But on sick days they are the BEST item in my toolbelt. Haha
@@annarocha3254 I agree. It is a tool, not a nanny. If we use it sometimes, that is fine. If it is watching your kids for significant amounts of time, issues may be there. But sick days…have at it.
Remember that before phones had GPS- people used specific mounted GPS devices in their cars that do that one thing. Or... A physical Map 🤣 it won't have the updated software all of the time but pilots with small planes still use it
For us since it's colder now we do bath time every other night. And we don't have any toys or fill up the tub. On the Sabbath after a muddy day outdoors is when we let them have a long soak and play in there for our boys 3 and 4 years old. But during the week that's too much time plus trying to drag them out of there Also having everything you need where you are going to put the Pajamas on (like qtips, lotion, and brush) really makes everything go smoother than having tonfind everything while they wait impatiently. We also brush their teeth in the tub so it's easier than chasing them around. Just some of our tips.
Hi! Mama of 9 almost 10. We read every morning a portion of old new and psalms etc. It's hard to keep the focus of the littles so I like the snack idea. How long are you actually reading!? I feel like I may be trying to read too much ( with Bible in a year) I have ages 18 months to 12 years. Thanks I'm for the inspiration to quit screens at night🤗
You guys are such wonderful examples! Please look at the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. We have a program for this at our church called Come Follow Me.
Please find a Traditional Catholic Tridentine Mass. Get baptized there, the only Church founded by Jesus Himself on the Cross in AD 33. I will be praying for you. You are 2 special people, become Saints
I wish more men were enthusiastically involved like this man. The Lord has blessed this family.
It is SO wonderful to see other young families go against the flow of what is “normal.” You are both such wonderful parents! ❤️
You both clearly had amazing parents, and now you get to be amazing parents to your kids. What a blessing 🙌
Believe me. Can be very different. I had no love at home and now I am breaking generational traumas and curses with very loving and caring home. It could be, but not every time ❤️
I love when the Lord gives you a desire in your heart and then provides wonderful resources like your channel to bless, encourage and give some resources and direction how to execute that desire. Thank you both for your work and effort to strengthen the body of Christ in how we make the most of the time the Lord gives us with our family in the home. 💕🙏
You said what I was feeling much better than I did! 😂 thank you!
We don’t have any TVs. We read the Bible and do family worship at supper. Everyone is at the table until we are all done. Afterwards we all help clean. One clears dishes, one sweeps, one washes the chairs….etc. We play worship music while we do it. Sometimes I will play music on the guitar or ukulele while we clean.
So refreshing seeing parents who actually know how to parent and who have a growth mindset! I hope to find a man with whom I can do a similar thing for our kids 🥰
You know what you want in a spouse and so does the Lord. When they both align trust they Lord for it.
Thank you for clarifying the expectations when starting a routine and how often the routine is! Small details but so helpful to not feel like we’ve failed! 😂
Yes exactly! When watching something like this on social media that is SO appreciated!
I just adore every video y’all share ☺️ our family is first generation homeschoolers (neither my husband or I have been homeschooled) and I’ve been so encouraged by the joy and love, so present in y’all’s home. Thanks for sharing your family routines, training, and teamwork!
I love this. We have kids all the way up to 14 and activities feel like they have taken over our evenings. I wanted to watch this for ideas on reclaiming our evenings.
I started my screen free journey about a week ago and I don't regret it one bit. My house is way more peaceful and I know that with God's help this will bring us more close. Screens devid families they bring so much chaos and confusion.
First generation homeschoolers and Christians too! So we are trying our best to forge the way of new family habits & heritage with our littles. Thanks for your content I love your channel
Eline from the Netherlands here, I’m so very blessed by your channel. Thank you so much, it gave me the right inspiration to take on the right proactive attitude as a mom again.
Could you do a video on how to get newborns/infants to nap during the day similar to your baby sleep videos I find so encouraging!
I love this evening routine idea!! As a family we are studying the new testament this year and hope to study in the evenings together. This has given an idea of what we can do to make it more regular and also, more family centered. I also love the idea of child training! My kids have a very hard time at church.
Thank you for sharing. We’ve been living in a camper for like a year since hubby was fired for not getting the glitter but he switched to claims adjusting so we travel full time in airbnbs and can get back to our screen free life again.
I need alllll the toddler training help 😅 more videos on that would be so helpful.
I recently came across your channel. The first one I was about your Sabbath prep! And I knew this would be a Christian channel... And the rest is history (I mean like love at first sight kinda thing) I went through the precious Q and A videos and screen free family video and many other. I could also introduce to my hubby. Needless to say, Katie and Elisha you're such an inspiration to lead a beautiful Christian family! Love from Vellore, TN, India.
Jija Benjamin, How thrilling to find someone from Vellore interested in Sabbath prep! Please, are you SDA or Messianic?
Inspiring! I like the snack. "Your Word is sweeter than honey...".
Ich bin auch ohne Fernseher und Handy aufgewachsen. Und es tat uns allen gut. Heute wird man mit allen Müll im Fernsehen und Internet beworfen dass man seinen eigenen Weg kaum ebnen kann. Ich danke euch dafür dass ihr das mit uns teilt. Ich freue mich dass es solche tollen liebevollen Eltern gibt deren Erziehung wirklich am Herzen liegt und danach strebt was Gott gefällt.
Alles Liebe und viele Grüße aus Deutschland.
Awesome video. This how I visualize a family. More and more videos please. Great example
Very refreshing to see such a wholesome family which I believe is rare. Can you touch on the no pajama concept?
I was curious about what "they don't sleep in pajamas" meant, too? do they just wear the clothing they've been wearing all day?
E molto bello quello che fate,un giorno i vostri figli vi ringrazieranno.Dio vi Benedica, vi scrivo dall'Italia.🙏
Your podcast and UA-cam videos have been the #1 contributor to my journey into screen-free parenting! Now in also trying to transition into my own screen-free lifestyle as a mother. BUT, I use UA-cam pretty frequently at night for cooking inspiration and meal recipes. I also post stories about the kiddos. Do you ever regret losing those moments? Or not sharing those moments? I have been praying for God to shift my priorities if it is not His will for them to be posted.
I love learning how you work together to get everything done and build such great relationships with each other and the kids! I've been fearful about being good enough as a mother, but seeing how you do it is so empowering and I am so excited for the day when I get to start a family of my own 🥰
Love this!
Also, total random side note: Digging the new streamlined style you guys created for the video content. Looks polished and has a very inviting feel. The instructive content surrounding the Christian fam is also great and super practical- can totally see this being a lifelong ministry for you two!
This Looks so peacefull and wholesome. Great advice: I really start implementing parts of your advice in our faimilylife of 5 here in Germany.
Thank you so much!
Hii i am from germany too. Moved to Canada.
Nice to see germans with the same priorities.
Such a beautiful family! Thank you for sharing! I really enjoyed watching! We do have tv’s but typically watch 30-60 mins as a family. I have a list of a ton of clean movies. As a full-time working mommy who homeschools, this helps me to just relax. However as a believer, I just love how peaceful and loving your family time is together during Bible reading and worship! Praise God! 🙌🏼🙌🏼 Beautiful! ❤️
Please share that list!
This was beneficial. Thank you!
Thank you! God bless you ❤️ you are beautiful family
This is so encouraging and a great template to pray over and see what parts would work for our family to add into our Bible time. Thank you!
I grew up in Bonners Ferry! Even farther north. Haha! You are living in the area I call home. I hope you love it there! I’m all the way across the country raising my family in Vermont now. My brother lives in CDA though!
Thank you for dropping all these gems 💎
Wow I didn't know this still Existed, haven't family time like this.
Love these ideas!
Do you have a list of all the books you love as a family?
this conversation is such blessing for me as someone who does have perfectionist mindset.
This is so beautiful! Thank you for sharing!
At first it seemed like what can be screen free and relaxing at the same time? But this did look really engaging and restful! Thank you for showing it’s possible! I look up to you guys!
Currently my 4 boys mostly just play rough and run around and we have prayer time before bed, but I want to incorporate more regular bible time and enjoy evening together not separately after dinner.
Thanks again! Blessings!
I also wanted to add I love that this is an intentional family training time to sit or to show what they learned. We need more training to sit as well without being silly or interrupting with good manners. This prolonged reading time is a good excercise! Now to just get past the training and not give up😅
Thanks for sharing. You’re family is such an example for people!
Wow, beautiful family, thank you so much for sharing. God bless 🙏
absolutely love this...
I also was excited to hear you mention Mary Cecily Barker; I grew up listening to a lullaby album that put her flower fairy poems to music. I couldn't wait to share that with my kids .
This was reminding me of the little house books and then sure enough, you're reading the little house books! Hahaha
This is ministry and thank you for inspiring us all , I can't wait to implement this with my future husband and kids . May God bless your family
Have you or can you do routine videos for the other parts of the day. Love this and gave me so many ideas and tips to implement.
Second this idea!
Agreed!
Praise God for you guys! Thank you for the toddler training part 😁😁😁 needed it!
I would love to know about recitations where to find them and how do you do them? We were a screen free family until the pandemic hit...and it went from us being outdoors and having fun to indoors and on the screen...the pandemic ended but the screen time didn't. So I found your channel and even though my kids are older, the youngest is 8 and my oldest is 14 I am learning a lot from you guys and also I am remembering how we were prior pandemic...it gets harder when the kids get older and they want to do their own thing...I miss sooooo much when my kids were your kids age...Please enjoy it, love it, keep your eyes open because in a blink of an eye it is over...teens are a totally different beast! haha...I love you guys already.
Thanks for this. I love when you share together! Hug from Europe
Screen Free evening, nice! Good for everyone!
I love your evening routine with the kids! Meaningful! 😊
I love this channel :) and my son's birthday is February 6th, too, and he will be 2 years old! I was surprised how well he sits still! My son would be grabbing the guitar and joining in on the speaking- I need him to learn how to sit still and wait.
That's probably only because he is learning from his older siblings. He sees that they sit and listen so he wants to copy them. My 3 year old can sit still for 10 minutes maximum :D
I loved this so much! Best evening routine I’ve ever heard. Thanks for sharing!
We just our first screen free day. It was eye opening and not as hard as I thought it would be.
Woohoo!!!
Aww, it’s so nice to see other families practicing family worship as well♥️
This is like a dream. I have 2 young kids and would love to do this. However my husband is very far from God at the moment (and has been for about 5 years). It is so difficult to try things like this with him. I get a lot of push back. He loves his TV and every night wants the kids to just sit with him and watch it till bedtime. Please pray for us.
Maybe Fascinating Womanhood can help!
Prayed for you.
I love this! But what do you both do once the kids go to bed? Do you spend time together? Have me time? And what do you do together? I feel like once my kids go to bed I don’t know how to spend quality time with my husband so we both spend time on our phones.
Wow I loved this ❤! The recitations are such a great idea and I love that it also teaches them the word but also confidence, speech, and public speaking skills. I’m definitely taking notes and implementing a lot of these amazing tips. Thank you for this blessing ❤
Thank you for sharing this! Will look forward to integrating some of these tips into our family routine. Evenings are often the loudest and most stressful here and creating a restful environment like this really is key. God bless you guys!
What do you recommend when you & your husband are not on the same page with this? How do you figure out a way to build a family together if you both come from different family environments that breed different philosophies? Me & My husband have the same core values - and we got married and realized (despite extensive discussions - I guess some things just don't come out until later xD) that we have different opinions on how to implement those core values into our life and our family. Any advice commenters?
Amazing insight to your evening routine! Thank you so much for sharing 😌
That was beyond valuable, thank you!
So great advise God bless you
Beautiful, Amazing Family!!❤❤❤
This video is a blessing! So many great pointers and heads on with my goals. Thanks so much!
Thanks for taking the time to explain the training/relational aspect behind why you implement these routines. I learned so much. Thanks for sharing!
I love your dress!!! Where is it from? It looks to be linen!
Katie and family great videos. Thank you. Just wanted to check and see how your parents are? Haven’t seen them post videos on their channel for a long time…
Can you talk more about how you train the youngest to sit ? Do you just require him to sit in your lap when the story is being red and if he runs away do you just pick him right back up and have them sit on your lap I’d like to know a little bit more about that so I can help my son thank you
I’d like to know more about this too! It sometimes gets to be a not so good association when I’m having to discipline them for jumping on the couch or being loud etc while daddy is trying to read. How to train them to be respectful & to sit & listen. How long did you read from the Bible in the beginning to keep it fun & a positive association for 4yo, 3yo, 18month old.
I’ve watched all the obedience training videos you’ve put out and still need more help understanding some things 😅
Wow
Do you have a list of good hymns for kids to learn? Thanks so much for this!
Wow thank you for this video!!
Very encouraging! Thank you! Could you please share the names of books you read to your kids?
Love this!!❤
Can you share the book that you read with your daughter before bedtime ? Thanks
First generation homeschoolers over here as well and even though Ive been homeschooling my 9 year old since preschool your channel is still such an inspiration! Could you share where you got your dress from?! I love it! Noticed someone else from the comment section also asked
Thank you both so much for sharing this with us and for your time! It is incredibly encouraging and I have been so blessed by your channel. I’ve thanked God several times for placing your content in my path as it came at a very needed time.
Could you make a video about meal related stuff? picky eaters and the like
Thank you for this video! This is what my hubby and I do with our 4 littles as well it has been such a blessing. Wanted to ask what you do on sick days? That is when I pull out the movies but kind of wonder if there is something better to do
I view movies as a strategic tool. They are not the enemy, nor should they replace real, quality time with your kids. But on sick days they are the BEST item in my toolbelt. Haha
@@annarocha3254 I agree. It is a tool, not a nanny. If we use it sometimes, that is fine. If it is watching your kids for significant amounts of time, issues may be there. But sick days…have at it.
❤❤❤❤❤
Thanks for sharing!! Can you guys explain how you deal with life without a smart phone? Particularly gps?
Remember that before phones had GPS- people used specific mounted GPS devices in their cars that do that one thing. Or... A physical Map 🤣 it won't have the updated software all of the time but pilots with small planes still use it
They have screens. How do you think they edit the videos? They just don’t use screens for their family.
We are in the same boat
Random question - bath time ? I feel like that takes up a big portion of our night
For us since it's colder now we do bath time every other night. And we don't have any toys or fill up the tub. On the Sabbath after a muddy day outdoors is when we let them have a long soak and play in there for our boys 3 and 4 years old. But during the week that's too much time plus trying to drag them out of there
Also having everything you need where you are going to put the Pajamas on (like qtips, lotion, and brush) really makes everything go smoother than having tonfind everything while they wait impatiently. We also brush their teeth in the tub so it's easier than chasing them around. Just some of our tips.
Hi! Mama of 9 almost 10. We read every morning a portion of old new and psalms etc. It's hard to keep the focus of the littles so I like the snack idea. How long are you actually reading!? I feel like I may be trying to read too much ( with Bible in a year) I have ages 18 months to 12 years. Thanks I'm for the inspiration to quit screens at night🤗
Ok I should have just kept watching haha. You just answered my question♥️
This video is so inspiring and encouraging to me as a mama thank you both🙏💖🙏
I'd love to do this but my husband is so use to screens and it's his default. He really isn't on board
Where so you live so north? I live in Norway and it's about dark here Oslo 330pm
Did you say your kids don’t sleep in pajamas?
How do both cope out of routines. Like if HS said one week just be out of structure
What church do you guys attend?
You guys are such wonderful examples! Please look at the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. We have a program for this at our church called Come Follow Me.
It is for freedom Christ set us free. LDS is offering a works salvation. Christ’s death on the cross and his resurrection are sufficient!
Where do you live so far North? ✨
This content is top-notch. I read a similar book that was truly outstanding. "A Life Unplugged: Reclaiming Reality in a Digital Age" by Theodore Blaze
What are your or anyone's thoughts on the reading time with ADHD.
Can you look in to gut reparation and help it?
Pls watch Sensus Fidelium, Dr Taylor Marshall, the One True Faith @Church Militant
I wanted to listen to you but due to the music i could not. Why use annoying music? The words are important.
Watch longer, it’s not there the entire time.
Please find a Traditional Catholic Tridentine Mass. Get baptized there, the only Church founded by Jesus Himself on the Cross in AD 33. I will be praying for you. You are 2 special people, become Saints
Nah, the reformation got it right. Catholicism denies the sufficiency of Christ’s atonement.
Screen free while being filmed by a screen hahahaha 😂 not very authentic