Princess here! Gonna just respond to a few things and then go touch grass because you know your girl has that anxiety: I didn't expect my comment about the fat suit to be so divisive, but I wanted to just say two things 1) I feel like there was criticism about that from even when he was announced in the role. We spent a long time discussing why/how fat suits can be dehumanizing and unnecessary. There is no denying that Colin is an amazing actor and we love when the cast of Daredevil 2003 get to redeem themselves. I just think they had multiple ways to do it w/o a fat suit especially when his walk isn't even about his weight and is about his foot. The Penguin has not always been depicted at fat so it just doesn't *need* to be there and 2) he was still excellent and I say that in the video. two things can true and while the MVP of the series was Cristin Milioti, he absolutely put in the work. Per Agatha: this is one of the rare videos I didn't talk the more race/ethnic specific aspects of both shows. For fun transparency I just wanted to do a more fun video since it was going to be sandwiched between two heavier topics. I think there is plenty to criticize about Jen and Wendy having much less to do overall than even Lila by comparisons. I think Wendy is clearly the most egregious because at least Jen got to free herself and I found that to be a beautiful scene. Lilia is also another example of taking a character who was Romani in the comics and making them a different ethnicity. I also know that Wendy doesn't totally fit as the "Wise Woman" archetype, but I didn't want to use Lilia twice and I think a wise woman can also be a protector, which Wendy was. And also, yes I wrote Gina and I meant Gloria from the Sopranos. Thank you for watching
I agree with you on why Oz kills Vic, and I'd like to add a third suggestion: Vic loves Oz, but only because he never saw any of his worst sides-he's the only main character who doesn't know about the brothers and about his snitching on Sofia-and Oz has seen now how loving someone who learns about his most evil acts lets them hurt him when their love turns to hate and contempt. In a way, if he kills Vic now, he kind of gets to freeze Vic in this state of loving him and seeing him as family. It's similar to how Carmine kept his wife's room preserved, a kind of memorial to a loving wife (who was gonna leave his shitty ass before he killed her).
Fuuuuck that's an even scarier way of looking at the situation. Oz genuinely cherished his friendship with Vic but killed Vic precisely because of how much he cherished it. Even his genuine feelings of affection are warped and twisted and he genuinely cannot realize that or face the truth that the people he genuinely wants in his life and admires never really felt, feel, or will feel the same way about him. Rex Calabrese, his role model and reason for doing what he does, casually suggests to Francis that he can wack her son as a favor and never cared about Oz in the first place. Oz would break if he learned that. A part of his mind might understand that his own mother would genuinely hate him and stop giving him all the affection he wants if she ever learned the truth about his brothers' deaths. And it turns out to be true, but even when confronted with this possibility spiraling into a real scenario, he loves his idealistic relationship with his mom so much that he's willing to let her finger get chopped off to preserve the delusional fantasy. A part of his brain understands how bad his act of fratricide means to other people, but he doesn't, or even wants to in the first place, understand why. He just hates dealing with the fallout and will go to great lengths to hide the truth from others and even himself to preserve his desired image and to preserve the relationships he genuinely values. Victor would totally leave Oz again if he found out, and he's afraid of losing him for good this time. Victor as his most loyal henchman and friend is no different to Francis as his doting and supportive mother in that regard.
I haven’t watched this video all the way through yet but I found it amusing that reactors were wondering who the villain was and made all kinds of excuses for Agatha’s behavior. It was indeed Agatha All Along.
Something I find interesting about the archetypes in Agatha All Along is that Billy fits into quite a few. Not only is he the image of a "modern witch" (IE someone who actively practices witchcraft as a culture, rather than being accused of it), he's also an almost 1:1 fit with the myth of a "changeling": a child that is secretly replaced by a magical being, resulting in strife and chaos to all those involved. Not to mention, it honestly feels kind of poignant that none of the main characters in AAA were "good guys who got roped into bad situations"- they all went on the Road for personal benefit, even if it wasn't the sort of selfishness that would necessarily harm others. None of them are really "heroes" or even "anti-heroes"; they just kind of exist
I didn't like the show as much I would have like to, but Lilia's episode was just the standout. The writers saw they had Patti LaPune and were not about to ruin it. It was everything!
I really just want the magical characters of the MCU to live with Jac for a while. You're right, I am SO nervous that Agatha, Rio, Jen, and Billy are at the whims of other people now.
My favorite scene from agatha all along was when alice and rio were talking. Rio: Are you ready? Alice: No. It was so simple, so heart breaking..so honest.. then to watch as they join hands and cross the threshold. 😢
It’s funny because as a comic book fan, I never cared for either of these characters much yet both shows ended up being great highlights in modern television and made me like both villains way more. What struck me about both projects: they were meticulously planned and it paid off. (Agatha in particular because of how most MCU projects appear to be made)
I wanted to set this up by saying that I am an Italian man, and that aspect will contextualize my perspective. I was very turned off at the Idea of The Penguin series. Everyone I knew read The Penguin as an Italian character even though he was not played by an Italian actor. I was even more turned off when I found out that the Falcones and Maronis were going to be main aspects of this story. If I had been wrong and Oz was supposed to be an Italian character, then what was stopping them from hiring other non-Italians? My fears weren't entirely wrong. When I watched the show, there was a mix of Italian and non-Italian actors playing Italian characters, but they really saved the best for last because had no clue what kind of a powerhouse Cristin Milioti (Sofia Falcone) was. She lead so many powerful scenes and looked gorgeous while doing so. She was so complex and interesting. I would love for to be brought back for further sequels, and I need for her and Selina to be on screen together. My main point is that I am very happy they allowed an integral, multilayered, Italian character be played an actual Italian woman. It meant a lot to my family, especially the women of my family. Also, I didn't know how to bring this up organically, but I appreciate that Selina Kyle is Afro-Italian. I know her actress isn't but my partner is Nigerian and it's kind of cool that when our children eventually look for characters that visually reflect their background, I will be able to point to specifically Catwoman.
What they said about the casting of Oz on the official podcast they said they were actually going to go with Collin even without the cosmetics, but he was hesitant because he didn't feel he looked the part. Then the makeup department did a sculpt of the penguin for him and he agreed.
Yeah the original inspiration was for Telltale’s version, where he is skinny and handsome and his nose gets broken to make the crook. They liked the idea of him being the penguin from damage, and went wild with all the scars and shit- they ended up at something more traditional along the line of “how much can we make him look like he’s been in some shit”
I watched the TV show Gotham on Fox during its run and the man who played The Penguin did such a good job even though he was a scrawny dude. He had the limp and he had the essence, that’s all I needed. He is still 100 percent my favorite rendition of penguin because he played the part well. Didn’t over do anything with his accent or body. However, to me Collin over did everything to the point where I personally couldn’t even focus on his acting at times. I was laughing at parts I probably shouldn’t have. The show was still good but I couldn’t get past the tacky and unnecessary prosthetics.
There's a moment in the series finale of Wandavision when Agatha is standing in front of a giant billboard for a cleaning product and I always thought it was a pretty interesting piece of visual storytelling because it gives us the juxtaposition between patriarchy and, as you said, its worst nightmare. There is indeed something silly and empty about the idyllic sitcom imagery that Wanda has conjured and Agatha is one of the possible antidotes to that emptiness. An evil one, sure, but still.
Small point about Agatha just being a sweet old nanny, she perpetuated the Salem witch trials for the purpose of making witches stronger overall. She had to be stopped by a time traveling Firestar who finally managed to convince her this idea was wack. So her potential for darker character traits is definitely there.
00:17:37 Because his fine and fit features will be on the promo magazine covers, not some fat, balding, scarred guy...I was so happy they kept Agatha devilish to the end. She was a villain, and I didn't want some "anime bad guy turns good" as soon as it became convenient or a protagonist series.
LOVE your top, Princess! And yes, people frequently forget that the reward is always in the journey; sure, a bad ending can undo earlier successes (think Game of Thrones), but there's so much more enjoyment to be had if we can sit back and let ourselves experience how that ending gets reached. Thanks for your usual amazingness 😀
I have to say, as someone who has been a practioner of Wicca and Witchcraft for almost thirty years, the shock I felt when I realized the Witch's Road was a real chant that could be used at the start of a ritual was intense in the best way. When I became Pagan in the 90's, CPS were taking kids from their parents in small towns in America because one or both parents were Pagan. I was a minor in small town Ohio so I had to lie when I was asked and tell people I was atheist because having no god is better to Christians of a certain mindset than practicing Goddess worship and acknowledging all Gods. So to see a show like Agatha All Along and hear that song was a trip. I love it. I only hope the next four years doesn't force us all back inside the broom closet. I also hope that the rich white women who have officially found ways to even appropriate religions from Europe with their odd rip offs of very real Pagan beliefs (crystals without the ritual, talking about Divine Feminine as a woman submitting to her husband...🤢 I know Goddesses that have killed for less than that statement.... lmao... just a toothless cosplay of actual real Pagan beliefs that has people who don't know any better assuming these often right wing women are ours....nah) either get into the study of Goddess worship for real (it might heal a lot of trauma considering the right wingers doing this tend to connect with the trad wife nonsense...talk about cognitive dissonance) or put the crystals down, leave astrology out of it, stop talking about the behavioral effects of the planets on our species, keep the Goddesses' name out their motherfucking mouths (😂) and go back to being Mormons or Baptists or whatever because their brand of stay at home mom wouldn't even be ok by Hera's standards. It's also not traditional. And Goddess worship has no place inside of that framework. When they decide to deconstruct, then they can watch Agatha all Along, listen to the Witch's Road and have some of their crystals back. We might even show them how the crystals work. 😂😂😂 Anyway, I loved seeing a show so unabashedly Pagan for real in the mainstream like that. I do fear that we are about to go back about thirty years on that progress of Paganism mainstreaming so I hope everyone who cares savored the moment. Much love to you!
Also that Agatha brought her into it with little regret, knowing she would have to kill other alongside the witches to get her power back (before they find the "real" Road)
Great analysis as always! I really appreciated the deep dive comparison between the Sopranos and Penguin, what separated them as well as what connected them. It truly is fascinating we got two of the best Villain led series ever running parallel with each other and also being so fundamentally different in style. Are there actually people questioning what "the point" of AAA was since The Road was not "real"?! People like that shouldn't be allowed to watch anything more complex than morning talk shows.
I loved both of them, and there is a sense that the writers are aware of current Superhero tropes and audience expectations. They led us down the path and for a second (mine was Agatha AA ep 4), you almost believe that this malevolent being is redeemable, and then at the end they go - ABSOLUTELY NOT! And I was satisfied. Distraught (coz Vic), but satisfied that the character wasn't crafted to fulfil my desires, but to go on their own journey that has its logical conclusion. Amazing video essay, can't wait for your next one!
I never saw reason to hate Agatha until I saw how nonchalant she was about having destroyed a black woman's (Jennifer Kale) life. It just reeked of white entitlement to black bodies, Get Out coded. Still love the show.
Bruh. Agatha killed a dog. She didn't care at all about Sharon's death. She killed Alice in purpose when Alice was saving her. And she is a serial witch killer, mainly of black witches. Agatha is a villain.
@Thed538dhsk Agatha has been intentional with her villainy. She killed that dog with her whole chest, she murdered Alice and those other witches with pride. But her binding Jennifer and "not knowing" for financial gain... I think it's the timing of my watch through coinciding with white women voting against their own interests to hurt people they deem lesser that makes her callousness not sit well with me.
@thatmessy132 Why did it not sit well with you? I'd think it'd be rewarding in some way, to see the light shine on the truth rather than be gas lit into a lie. Agatha, like so many other people, gladly and gleefully suck and drain the power of black women to give themselves power. Or at least their perceived power. And ruining Jen's life for 100+ years was no biggie to Agatha just like in real life some people are like this. After all, Agatha is a covenless witch
Sooo little discussion about this. A white woman taking a Black woman’s power in the 1920s has racial implications even if Agatha was unaware. To me, that made the story even more interesting & realistic.
@@KamilaShakur in the montage you see Agatha kill mainly black women. Not exclusively but certainly a lot of black witches are the ones she invites to the road and then takes their power
ugh I wish there was more overlap between my friends who saw Agatha and those who saw Penguin already because I love sharing your videos to them. Also when you said Gina at 10:35 did you mean Gloria?
two shows that in our current landscape went quickly under the radar upon announcement but quickly gained traction as they butt up against the norm their predecessors clung so hard to more and more with each new episode, reaaaaaaally good television. and a really great video!
I'm not sure if Lucifer from the Lucifer show is a good example of a villain protagonist…? From episode one we see he clearly is set up to be a character that isn't the traditional evil devil archetype, with his first on-screen "deal" being him telling a girl that the favor he wants from her is for her to get her life together bc she deserves better. The whole show is a deconstruction of Lucifer's (the protagonist of that show's) struggle with insecurity of how everyone sees him for being evil (and his reputation being so) despite the show presents him as someone who acts if not always fully moral but is still very much on the heroic side. He is even framed for murders by humans & his self-hatred over how God made him an evil incarnate is something he internalized despite throughout the show we see he clearly has a sense of protecting the innocent & punishing the guilty & being completely honest and just pretty much a misunderstood hero rather than anything close to a villain protagonist…?
I've been avoiding Agatha because of boycotting Marvel (the whole Sabra situation was my last straw) & it's extra deeply frustrating because sapphic witch content is 100% something I love to delve into. Probably shouldn't have watched this one because now I'm extra mad I'm not watching AAA 😅
I'm pretty sure Wanda gets out fast after bringing the rocks down. There's a zip of red magic that zooms out of there right at the last minute. I'm not really into the MCU at this point. I was committed through Endgame, but after that I was superheroed out. But I did watch Multiverse of Madness and I think the movie provides evidence that she lives. Plus if you don't see a body, you can't count them out. 😆
I’ll admit I was disappointed when it turned out Billy made the road real and that it was originally a con Agatha created but I really loved your take about enjoying the journey
I would like to add to the acusations argument that they would be called witches anyway because of this reasons too: Lilia a lunatic woman (their visions could fit as dementia) witch. Alice a woman that only takes care of herself and nobody else → witch. Jen a black business woman → witch. Agatha plain evil (+ being crazy at the beggining) → witch. Our beloved teen witch it's queer also a witch. Rio a beautiful woman that anyone would go crazy or the incarnation of a fem fatale → witch. Finally, the exception Ms. Heart which is the archetype of what a patriarchal society expects from a woman. Spoilers (the first one to die)
Raise your hand when you think about Regina Mills. Also, I'm still holding onto the headcanon that Wanda is related to Magneto- but she's his granddaughter.
I think you have fantastic point about how series/movies in IP universe can be a little harder to love considering they fall into new hands that threaten to undo what made them great. Fantastic video, also right there with you the Maximoff sibling retcon, they will put in the ground mad about it
Perfect timing, I just binged these series back to back about a week ago. I blame Batman for Victor's death. Oz BLEW UP A CITY BLOCK and Bruce was just not feelin it that week. This is why he needs Robin.
Tbf, as demoralizing as it may sound, I think Batman had bigger fish to fry, considering the show takes place immediately after the Riddler flooded most of the city. He's only one guy. But yeah, having a Robin would definitely make his services more accessible to those under the table.
But Oz didn't blow up the city block - Sofia did! In order to get at Oz yes, but it was HER choice! It is fascinating that so many seem to forget that fact. And Oz then made sure she was arrested for it pretty quick, so why should Batman get involved? She wasn't even framed this time around, just ratted out. The one that arguably was "framed" was Salvatore, allowing Oz to erase himself from the disaster.
This was a very fascinating. Also, I was in favor of giving Homeless people cash upfront for years. I like that there's an organization actually doing that. This is a good thing
Your points at the beginning about mob movies and Italian American identity has me thinking about cartel/narcotics movies/TV shows and Mexican American/Chicano identity. And also the larger Latin American community. Thanks ❤
One of my favorite things about agatha all along is that, by the end, she isn't a better person. She's still a villain, she's just a villain that lives Billy like a son and wants to protect him. And Jennifer, Lilia and Alice are all good witches and just become better people as the show goes on. ETA: Jac should just be put in charge of everything related to the maximoffs and anything that comes out of agatha all along
Is it controversial to prefer MCU Agatha over comics Agatha? Also I recently watched Multiverse of Madness for the first time and kinda liked the dark path Wanda went down. It’ll suck if she stays dead though because she deserves a good redemption/healing arc where she finds Billy and Tommy and maybe even Vision comes back. All she wants is her family so it would be cruel to leave it off there.
Agatha is one of those rare instances where the MCU version is deeper and funnier, and creepier and more interesting all around. It looks like the comix are taking a cue from this approach because newly revived, young-looking Agatha in the comics seems to have a pretty villainous agenda.
The journey being the point over twists or a grand finale hit me right in the One Piece feels. That series has always been about the journey and growth of the characters on the crew and outside of the crew.
Couldn't care less about the penguin but Agatha All Along has become my all time favourite series. It's funny, witchy, AND it has gorgeous women and lesbians. Marvel will never top this for me!
I coulden't care less about Agatha All Along but the Penguin had become my all time favourite series. Its funny, cruel, AND it has gorgeous woman in it and trans people.(Though no lesbians) I sure hope the Batman 2 will top this.
@@GL00MYG1RLi dont think they were trying to attack you. they responded to your comment because they happened to have the polar opposite feelings that you had, and they wanted to point that out by writing a variation of your original post.
Fine, I'll watch Agatha, even though I pretty much checked out of the MCU last year and have not watched a live-action Marvel show all the way through since She Hulk ( which was terrible, by the way)
The comment on the backlash AAA got as a women led, woman created show vs The Penguin not getting it because the faces of the show were white men is interesting because Batman: Caped Crusader had a much more comics accurate Penguin than the HBO Max show did, but because the Penguin was genderflipped into Oswalda Cobblepot it got so much flack from incels online despite making much less changes to the history and story of the character than the show about Oz Cobb did. People really do just be hating women no matter what.
Yeah, some Peguin fans sadly feel a need to claim the show that suits their personal taste as somehow superior. It's tedious. I loved both shows, but I get how someone could love one and not connect to another. They're working in very different worlds. It's like complaining about 'Macbeth' for not being 'The Wire'.
I don't like it. She wasn't that interesting to me in the Batman 2022 film. To be fair, outside of Pfeiffer, Catwoman hasn't been interesting to me. In the short amount of scenes he had in the 2022 film Penguin stood out and it showed again in his show.
Great video Princess! I appreciate your analysis of The Penguin. I have a question: why no direct mention of the the fact Oz can't ever be a "made man" and fully initiated into the mafia because he's not Italian? No matter how high he climbs or how much he styles himself as an aristocrat, the highest levels among the oldest families will always be blocked to him.
Especially considering Colin Farrell was cast at a time when they were basing him off of Telltale Batman. Besides, actors gain and lose weight all the time for roles, why put someone through that to play a part. Fat isn’t a race or identity. It’s just a state of being. Everyone one way or another is capable of switching between the two in their lives, regardless of the varying difficulty person to person and ignoring the economic influences that affect that as well.
I think that we’ve seen non fat Penguins before I would have been fine without the need of the suit. Overall I do still love Colin’s performance but it is something I thought about
@@Princess_Weekes Not fat so take this with some salt, but there is a part of me that tentatively hopes that this performance opens up space for fat actors to get more roles, maybe? Definitely not an ideal situation and I agree we should be talking more about it, but since we are in a world where there is a lack of both fat actors with high visibility+experience, and roles for fat people that are not jokes or downright cruel, maybe something good can come out of this problematic situation. Maybe I'm just coping idk. I don't feel as viscerally bothered by this as I do with other examples of fatsuit usage and I'm not quite sure why.
One thing I absolutely couldn’t shake off while watching both shows as a darkskin black woman who has ALWAYS been a huge fan of DC and Marvel is how black women were portrayed in both of these shows… For me, The Penguin just straight up ignored us so I’ll start with Agatha. I appreciate that Jen was there but the first thing I noticed is during everyone’s “torture” sequence in the fancy house scene, no one else had physical violence in their moments, Jen was the only one who was getting drowned in the kitchen sink by some white dude. Also, why did Jen have to be straight up bald headed? All the other witches had distinct, feminine styles and features whereas they made Jen look like little bill in a pink dress😭. They had her freaking out and panicking at all times whereas everyone else seemed to have always operated in sound mind and purpose (except Agatha but that’s the point for her). Also, we didn’t get a full on back story regarding Jen’s background meanwhile everyone else had great backstory’s. People are saying she didn’t get a story because she’ll come back in different marvel projects. If I’m honest I highly doubt that, since AAA didn’t give her much to work with besides being the bald black witch who was always freaking out. Also, look how they treated Monica Rambeau in both Wanda Vision and The Marvels, she still doesn’t have a great backstory or anything to work with besides being Maria’s Daughter. The actress is beautiful and talented (Teyana) but isn’t being taken care of in my opinion. Now the penguin… they didn’t even want to give us dark skin black women which is just annoying. I saw a lot of dark skin black men in multiple roles throughout this series : dad, waiter, gangsta, bystander. But the darkskin black women? NOWHERE to be found the first few episodes. Everyone is light and mixed (which there is absolutely nothing wrong with that) but it’s gotta be apparent at this point that shows have an aversion to putting darkskin black women in main roles STILL. I desperately looked for a woman who looked like me and I only found it in 2 horrible ways. A.) The Arkham officer who was telling Sofia to get in the room aggressively B.) a small snippet of a darkskin black woman dancing and taking the drugs during the “Bliss” episode. The only other time I saw a small speck of darkskin black women was during Sofia’s speech when she was wearing the red dress during the flashback episode of that fundraiser she made for women. They were all older women by the way so it’s not like the show even wanted to give us a young and beautiful dark skin black women. We never saw darkskin black women look desirable or powerful. Just aggressive and drug obsessed. The only time we get a decent black woman was when Bella Royale makes her 2 small cameos. I just can’t help but notice these things as a black woman viewer who has been a long time fan of these comic book adapted movies. This definitely matters and we shouldn’t be silenced or sidelined for feeling this was when watching tv shows and movies. We see they are making crappy attempts with implementing black-ISH/black adjacent people.
I think that's being a bit unfair to AAA on black representation. The actress is bald and looks fantastic. The Penguin didn't have a fairly decent role for Carmen Egojo. Yes, I understand she's mixed and very light skinned but she was great in the role. Jamie Lawson, however, is a beautiful sister, and played a small role that could potentially lead to something larger in the sequel series considering her importance as the mayor-elect.
does anyone the Moon Knight series had more thought put into the horror supernatural parts of it, as well as more mental health commentary like the 5th episode of that series, post Agatha? also; this channel is so educational. this and lexual media's vid on history of black witchcraft is 👍
what i meant was, i wish the moon knight show structurally felt like a tv show that cared consistently about the mental health storytelling like ep5's story(ofc this is up to the DID system comm to decide, i heard many systems loved MK - thats great) AND i wish this show put more thought into supernatural horror in MK like Agatha & werewolf by night imo.
I was impressed by Moon Knight, because it had a lot of conflicting elements in the source material that were difficult to put together coherently (some of which also has kind of messy optics): heavily stigmatized mental illness, Egyptian culture(al appropriation), supernatural horror, Moon Knight being Jewish serving an Egyptian God, and Moon Knight being one of the more violent Marvel heroes while having the previously mentioned stigmatized mental illness. They touched on all of these things, some more to the detriment of others. I don't envy the director having to put all of the previously mentioned things into a coherent Disney+ show plot while being respectful to both real life people and the source material. When it comes to presenting DID (or mental health commentary) they could have gone farther, but they did decide very strongly on doing a few things: 1) Reinvent Moon Knight's background for his DID to be more in line with how DID manifests in real life. (No "gaining moon powers caused it" or secret Nazis) 2) Insist on divorcing the expression of Moon Knight's DID from his violence (to the point of reinventing Steven Grant to be a complete pacifist). 3) Present DID itself as not purely negatively impacting Moon Knight's life or needing to be "cured." IDK if it is a net good, but it's still way better than how almost all other superhero film/shows treat people with DID like monsters.
I am one of the people who's like "what was it all for?" when it comes to Agatha All Along. Like, I get your argument (and it *is* a great series) but it does feel like the stories of Lilia and Wendy end up being just thrown aside. I get Sharon just being in the wrong place at the wrong time, but Lilia's episode in particular loses a lot of power when you realize she's sacrificing herself for a coven that's not really even that united. I also don't like that "I kill my covens" "so do I" line at the end. What they both have done is in no way comparable.
Okay, hold on. I agree that there was "doubts" about Agatha All Along (and I will debate you on Multiverse of Madness "ruining" Wanda. That blame totally falls on Brian Michael Bendis, without whom there would have been no Multiverse of Madness.) But Agatha All Along became doubt proof, chud proof, right-wing orange man supporter proof. While The Penguin got a lot of praise and some internet buzz, Agatha All Along became a monster. I'm still coming across UA-cam shorts and TikTok lip syncing Down the Witches Road. And I find it weird how people complain about these things being part of big franchises. Did we miss the the MCU came from Marvel comics? Are they supposed to become A24 now that they make movies. I mean these are super hero properties. There's no escaping that. Why do so many keep fighting it? It's like wanting Anime to be more like stop motion or Saturday Morning cartoons. (Look it up, kids.) I hate the idiotic complaint about the end of Wandavision. "It had a CGI super hero fight." What exactly did people expect from properties based on super hero comics? A dance number? Maybe Wanda and Agatha could have sat down for a nice cup of Earl Grey and discussed their differences? These character come from properties based on adolescent power fantasies. So why is everyone so shocked that the super hero character have super hero fights. IMO that's just a dumb expectation. I don't want Little Women hoping for a samurai sword fight at the end. And I shouldn't. But people got nuts because the super people with super power have super powers fight.
Unpopular opinion: But I personally feel that the reason most villain spinoffs don't work is because sometimes we ignore why a villain worked as a villain to begin with. Now while there's no denying that certain films/books/TV shows/video games go into great detail about the pathologies of their villains, explaining what made them resort to their actions, sometimes there should be a case for villains who DON'T really have a pathology, let alone are suppose to have one, BUT THAT'S WHAT MAKES THEM WORK. Sure, some of them are psychopaths who have certain traits such as a certain obsession, being very fastidious, sadistic, or have a distaste for specific people. But "why these villains are the psychopaths they are" should never really be explained or even hinted at, which is THE WHOLE POINT. Sometimes villains are written as less of a fleshed out character and more of a manifestation of evil itself. A good example of someone like this too, is Judge Holden from Blood Meridian. Someone who's beyond logic or explanation, not a puzzle that can be solved. A villain is simply a villain, because THEY ARE and THEY WILL. You don't know where they came from, can't go through their background, and can look into some former identity of them, as if they just spawned into existence to take power without realizing or caring about the chaos they're causing or psychologically torment whoever they feel like, while smiling about it. They are the fundamental reason why you don't just go around and pass that power randomly, and why such a hero must do their duty of stopping them and be the leader we must look up to. Therefore, adding in a backstory to a villain, can sometimes strip from them this disturbing ambiguity, contradicting the entire essence of their character.
To me, Agatha as a "antihero/villain" didnt work. I think, I would have enjoyed the show more, if Teen had been more of an antagonist to her and if her killing Alice would have been taking more seriously by Lillia and Jennifer. Imo, after Alice's death, Lillia and Jennifer should have been more focused on either killing Agatha for their own survival and/or trying to beat her to the end of the road.
In fairness to Colin Farrell’s casting, he auditioned for The Batman with the intention to play Oz as a thin man. It was the makeup department who suggested to try out more comic-esque stage makeup, which the director then fell in love with. So the answer to why a larger actor wasn’t cast was because it wasn’t originally intended for the role, but a cosmetic choice pushed afterwards by the art team
Also, I feel like he was only casted due to Devito possibly recommending him, since they coincidentally were together in Tim Burton's Dumbo. And usually when adapting or rebooting a comic book movie, most would look to the former for advice.....
The fatsuit was interesting because he had to spend three hours getting into his costume every day. So, logistically, it would have made more sense to hire a fat actor. But, on the other hand, credit where credit is due, he was able to act through that suit so well I repeatedly forgot he was in there. It was like the movie all over again.
I enjoy Jennifer Kale being mentioned but I also feel like the first bisexual character of Marvel got equated with Gwyneth Paltrow was unfortunate. She's always been a hedge witch and working class heroine.
I really like agatha to display a complete vilain I mean she use her son to kill innocent ppl this is so bad. But also we can see a redemption but it is not a easy one. Not in the straight line sometimes she go to her old way by habits . I think it is much more interesting.
Not every villain deserves some kind of moral grey area where you sympathize for them. Sometime's a villain can be downright evil and beyond redemption.
Yeah, I refused to watch The Penguin because even though it's been well received, I cannot wrap my head around the fact we're giving a fit dude in a fatsuit a leading role in 2024. And no one else seems to be even bringing that up? It's crazy. It feels like critics tend to equate "actor not being recognizable" with "an amazing performance", and it's part of why they love to give cis actors awards for playing trans characters and so on. But like... no. Just... no. Just find people who match the roles without needing suits and a ton of makeup. There are enough actors. There are equally talented actors, if not even more talented actors, that are not getting a chance to star in these productions because of these stupid trends.
I generally feel exactly the same way you do. I don't want to see Gary Oldman's make-up Churchill show. To me, this one transcended that stuff because there's so much brilliant writing, acting, and insight in the show. Farrel' does beautiful work under the prosthetics, but some of the other actors are what really thrilled me about the show. Especially Sofia and Vic.
Princess here! Gonna just respond to a few things and then go touch grass because you know your girl has that anxiety:
I didn't expect my comment about the fat suit to be so divisive, but I wanted to just say two things 1) I feel like there was criticism about that from even when he was announced in the role. We spent a long time discussing why/how fat suits can be dehumanizing and unnecessary. There is no denying that Colin is an amazing actor and we love when the cast of Daredevil 2003 get to redeem themselves. I just think they had multiple ways to do it w/o a fat suit especially when his walk isn't even about his weight and is about his foot. The Penguin has not always been depicted at fat so it just doesn't *need* to be there and 2) he was still excellent and I say that in the video. two things can true and while the MVP of the series was Cristin Milioti, he absolutely put in the work.
Per Agatha: this is one of the rare videos I didn't talk the more race/ethnic specific aspects of both shows. For fun transparency I just wanted to do a more fun video since it was going to be sandwiched between two heavier topics. I think there is plenty to criticize about Jen and Wendy having much less to do overall than even Lila by comparisons. I think Wendy is clearly the most egregious because at least Jen got to free herself and I found that to be a beautiful scene. Lilia is also another example of taking a character who was Romani in the comics and making them a different ethnicity. I also know that Wendy doesn't totally fit as the "Wise Woman" archetype, but I didn't want to use Lilia twice and I think a wise woman can also be a protector, which Wendy was.
And also, yes I wrote Gina and I meant Gloria from the Sopranos.
Thank you for watching
Hi! I really appreciate your work.
Do you mean Alice (instead of Wendy) ? I got a bit confused there^^
What about the idea that Agatha mainly killed black witches?
@@Thed538dhsk she...didn't?
@annabelle746 look at the montage, yes she did
@@Thed538dhsk I watched the series. No, she didn't.
I agree with you on why Oz kills Vic, and I'd like to add a third suggestion: Vic loves Oz, but only because he never saw any of his worst sides-he's the only main character who doesn't know about the brothers and about his snitching on Sofia-and Oz has seen now how loving someone who learns about his most evil acts lets them hurt him when their love turns to hate and contempt. In a way, if he kills Vic now, he kind of gets to freeze Vic in this state of loving him and seeing him as family. It's similar to how Carmine kept his wife's room preserved, a kind of memorial to a loving wife (who was gonna leave his shitty ass before he killed her).
Fuuuuck that's an even scarier way of looking at the situation. Oz genuinely cherished his friendship with Vic but killed Vic precisely because of how much he cherished it. Even his genuine feelings of affection are warped and twisted and he genuinely cannot realize that or face the truth that the people he genuinely wants in his life and admires never really felt, feel, or will feel the same way about him.
Rex Calabrese, his role model and reason for doing what he does, casually suggests to Francis that he can wack her son as a favor and never cared about Oz in the first place. Oz would break if he learned that.
A part of his mind might understand that his own mother would genuinely hate him and stop giving him all the affection he wants if she ever learned the truth about his brothers' deaths. And it turns out to be true, but even when confronted with this possibility spiraling into a real scenario, he loves his idealistic relationship with his mom so much that he's willing to let her finger get chopped off to preserve the delusional fantasy.
A part of his brain understands how bad his act of fratricide means to other people, but he doesn't, or even wants to in the first place, understand why. He just hates dealing with the fallout and will go to great lengths to hide the truth from others and even himself to preserve his desired image and to preserve the relationships he genuinely values. Victor would totally leave Oz again if he found out, and he's afraid of losing him for good this time. Victor as his most loyal henchman and friend is no different to Francis as his doting and supportive mother in that regard.
That's a very good insight. Makes Oz a more interesting character but also more psychotic person imo.
“If he kills Vic now, he kind of gets to *freeze* Vic.”
Vic will return as Victor Fries aka “Mister Freeze” confirmed
Getting these two shows right on top of each other and having them BOTH be as good as they are was such a pleasant surprise.
Yeah, it was so fun. We fans ate good 😊
I haven’t watched this video all the way through yet but I found it amusing that reactors were wondering who the villain was and made all kinds of excuses for Agatha’s behavior. It was indeed Agatha All Along.
Something I find interesting about the archetypes in Agatha All Along is that Billy fits into quite a few. Not only is he the image of a "modern witch" (IE someone who actively practices witchcraft as a culture, rather than being accused of it), he's also an almost 1:1 fit with the myth of a "changeling": a child that is secretly replaced by a magical being, resulting in strife and chaos to all those involved.
Not to mention, it honestly feels kind of poignant that none of the main characters in AAA were "good guys who got roped into bad situations"- they all went on the Road for personal benefit, even if it wasn't the sort of selfishness that would necessarily harm others. None of them are really "heroes" or even "anti-heroes"; they just kind of exist
He also has a boyfriend who is a literal "changeling" in the comics, which we may have seen a text from in the show :^)
Agatha all along was great but I especially loved Lillia's storyline and when the odd temporal displacements all lined up.
I loved being a witch 🥲
Yes! Her episode was brilliant! ❤
Right on
My favorite, for so many reasons.
I didn't like the show as much I would have like to, but Lilia's episode was just the standout. The writers saw they had Patti LaPune and were not about to ruin it. It was everything!
Let us not forget Goncharov. The greatest mafia film Scorsese ever made.
Correction! Don't forget that the Director was Matteo JWHJ0715
I really just want the magical characters of the MCU to live with Jac for a while. You're right, I am SO nervous that Agatha, Rio, Jen, and Billy are at the whims of other people now.
For me, I just have to live in the shows I love and let the other ones run off me like a heavy rain.
Thank the gods for Head Canon!!!
My favorite scene from agatha all along was when alice and rio were talking. Rio: Are you ready?
Alice: No. It was so simple, so heart breaking..so honest.. then to watch as they join hands and cross the threshold. 😢
It’s funny because as a comic book fan, I never cared for either of these characters much yet both shows ended up being great highlights in modern television and made me like both villains way more. What struck me about both projects: they were meticulously planned and it paid off. (Agatha in particular because of how most MCU projects appear to be made)
I wanted to set this up by saying that I am an Italian man, and that aspect will contextualize my perspective. I was very turned off at the Idea of The Penguin series. Everyone I knew read The Penguin as an Italian character even though he was not played by an Italian actor. I was even more turned off when I found out that the Falcones and Maronis were going to be main aspects of this story. If I had been wrong and Oz was supposed to be an Italian character, then what was stopping them from hiring other non-Italians? My fears weren't entirely wrong. When I watched the show, there was a mix of Italian and non-Italian actors playing Italian characters, but they really saved the best for last because had no clue what kind of a powerhouse Cristin Milioti (Sofia Falcone) was. She lead so many powerful scenes and looked gorgeous while doing so. She was so complex and interesting. I would love for to be brought back for further sequels, and I need for her and Selina to be on screen together. My main point is that I am very happy they allowed an integral, multilayered, Italian character be played an actual Italian woman. It meant a lot to my family, especially the women of my family. Also, I didn't know how to bring this up organically, but I appreciate that Selina Kyle is Afro-Italian. I know her actress isn't but my partner is Nigerian and it's kind of cool that when our children eventually look for characters that visually reflect their background, I will be able to point to specifically Catwoman.
Danny devito(who is an Italian actor) played penguin in batman returns in 1992.
What they said about the casting of Oz on the official podcast they said they were actually going to go with Collin even without the cosmetics, but he was hesitant because he didn't feel he looked the part. Then the makeup department did a sculpt of the penguin for him and he agreed.
Wow... what a shitty man.
Yeah the original inspiration was for Telltale’s version, where he is skinny and handsome and his nose gets broken to make the crook. They liked the idea of him being the penguin from damage, and went wild with all the scars and shit- they ended up at something more traditional along the line of “how much can we make him look like he’s been in some shit”
I watched the TV show Gotham on Fox during its run and the man who played The Penguin did such a good job even though he was a scrawny dude. He had the limp and he had the essence, that’s all I needed. He is still 100 percent my favorite rendition of penguin because he played the part well. Didn’t over do anything with his accent or body. However, to me Collin over did everything to the point where I personally couldn’t even focus on his acting at times. I was laughing at parts I probably shouldn’t have. The show was still good but I couldn’t get past the tacky and unnecessary prosthetics.
"Where's batman?" girl, he ate 1 blueberry in the course of The Batman and Penguin. Let her SLEEP
There's a moment in the series finale of Wandavision when Agatha is standing in front of a giant billboard for a cleaning product and I always thought it was a pretty interesting piece of visual storytelling because it gives us the juxtaposition between patriarchy and, as you said, its worst nightmare. There is indeed something silly and empty about the idyllic sitcom imagery that Wanda has conjured and Agatha is one of the possible antidotes to that emptiness. An evil one, sure, but still.
I loved how Agatha was still her at the end of the show. She grew but she wasn't good, she was just herself
Small point about Agatha just being a sweet old nanny, she perpetuated the Salem witch trials for the purpose of making witches stronger overall. She had to be stopped by a time traveling Firestar who finally managed to convince her this idea was wack. So her potential for darker character traits is definitely there.
00:17:37 Because his fine and fit features will be on the promo magazine covers, not some fat, balding, scarred guy...I was so happy they kept Agatha devilish to the end. She was a villain, and I didn't want some "anime bad guy turns good" as soon as it became convenient or a protagonist series.
I'm afraid I haven't seen Penguin yet, but I promise to return once I have. So happy that Agatha stuck the landing so hard.
Relatable comment is indeed relatable.
LOVE your top, Princess! And yes, people frequently forget that the reward is always in the journey; sure, a bad ending can undo earlier successes (think Game of Thrones), but there's so much more enjoyment to be had if we can sit back and let ourselves experience how that ending gets reached. Thanks for your usual amazingness 😀
I have to say, as someone who has been a practioner of Wicca and Witchcraft for almost thirty years, the shock I felt when I realized the Witch's Road was a real chant that could be used at the start of a ritual was intense in the best way. When I became Pagan in the 90's, CPS were taking kids from their parents in small towns in America because one or both parents were Pagan. I was a minor in small town Ohio so I had to lie when I was asked and tell people I was atheist because having no god is better to Christians of a certain mindset than practicing Goddess worship and acknowledging all Gods. So to see a show like Agatha All Along and hear that song was a trip. I love it. I only hope the next four years doesn't force us all back inside the broom closet. I also hope that the rich white women who have officially found ways to even appropriate religions from Europe with their odd rip offs of very real Pagan beliefs (crystals without the ritual, talking about Divine Feminine as a woman submitting to her husband...🤢 I know Goddesses that have killed for less than that statement.... lmao... just a toothless cosplay of actual real Pagan beliefs that has people who don't know any better assuming these often right wing women are ours....nah) either get into the study of Goddess worship for real (it might heal a lot of trauma considering the right wingers doing this tend to connect with the trad wife nonsense...talk about cognitive dissonance) or put the crystals down, leave astrology out of it, stop talking about the behavioral effects of the planets on our species, keep the Goddesses' name out their motherfucking mouths (😂) and go back to being Mormons or Baptists or whatever because their brand of stay at home mom wouldn't even be ok by Hera's standards. It's also not traditional. And Goddess worship has no place inside of that framework. When they decide to deconstruct, then they can watch Agatha all Along, listen to the Witch's Road and have some of their crystals back. We might even show them how the crystals work. 😂😂😂
Anyway, I loved seeing a show so unabashedly Pagan for real in the mainstream like that. I do fear that we are about to go back about thirty years on that progress of Paganism mainstreaming so I hope everyone who cares savored the moment.
Much love to you!
Mrs. Davis died for a purpose. She was the Red Shirt. She died to show the other characters the stakes and consequences of failure were real.
Also that Agatha brought her into it with little regret, knowing she would have to kill other alongside the witches to get her power back (before they find the "real" Road)
Agatha All Along blew my socks off, I had no expectations so was so happily surprised. It got better every episode
Great analysis as always! I really appreciated the deep dive comparison between the Sopranos and Penguin, what separated them as well as what connected them. It truly is fascinating we got two of the best Villain led series ever running parallel with each other and also being so fundamentally different in style. Are there actually people questioning what "the point" of AAA was since The Road was not "real"?! People like that shouldn't be allowed to watch anything more complex than morning talk shows.
I loved both of them, and there is a sense that the writers are aware of current Superhero tropes and audience expectations. They led us down the path and for a second (mine was Agatha AA ep 4), you almost believe that this malevolent being is redeemable, and then at the end they go - ABSOLUTELY NOT! And I was satisfied. Distraught (coz Vic), but satisfied that the character wasn't crafted to fulfil my desires, but to go on their own journey that has its logical conclusion. Amazing video essay, can't wait for your next one!
I never saw reason to hate Agatha until I saw how nonchalant she was about having destroyed a black woman's (Jennifer Kale) life. It just reeked of white entitlement to black bodies, Get Out coded. Still love the show.
Bruh. Agatha killed a dog. She didn't care at all about Sharon's death. She killed Alice in purpose when Alice was saving her. And she is a serial witch killer, mainly of black witches. Agatha is a villain.
@Thed538dhsk Agatha has been intentional with her villainy. She killed that dog with her whole chest, she murdered Alice and those other witches with pride. But her binding Jennifer and "not knowing" for financial gain... I think it's the timing of my watch through coinciding with white women voting against their own interests to hurt people they deem lesser that makes her callousness not sit well with me.
@thatmessy132 Why did it not sit well with you? I'd think it'd be rewarding in some way, to see the light shine on the truth rather than be gas lit into a lie. Agatha, like so many other people, gladly and gleefully suck and drain the power of black women to give themselves power. Or at least their perceived power. And ruining Jen's life for 100+ years was no biggie to Agatha just like in real life some people are like this. After all, Agatha is a covenless witch
Sooo little discussion about this. A white woman taking a Black woman’s power in the 1920s has racial implications even if Agatha was unaware. To me, that made the story even more interesting & realistic.
@@KamilaShakur in the montage you see Agatha kill mainly black women. Not exclusively but certainly a lot of black witches are the ones she invites to the road and then takes their power
Still can't believe that Collin Farrell
That he what?
@Angel-Otk He meant to say he can not believe Colin Farrell is underneath all that makeup he wears when playing Penguin
@@CyreseParrish bruhhh💀
@kingtravis76 What you're saying is PROPS TO THE MAKEUP CREW.
Very probably overworked and underpaid.
@@Angel-Otk
I just can't believe that Colin Farrell!
ugh I wish there was more overlap between my friends who saw Agatha and those who saw Penguin already because I love sharing your videos to them. Also when you said Gina at 10:35 did you mean Gloria?
The way you said “The Sopranos: College” made it sound like it was some tween prequel 🤣
Also, a musical.
two shows that in our current landscape went quickly under the radar upon announcement but quickly gained traction as they butt up against the norm their predecessors clung so hard to more and more with each new episode, reaaaaaaally good television. and a really great video!
We. Are. So. Back!!!
I'm not sure if Lucifer from the Lucifer show is a good example of a villain protagonist…? From episode one we see he clearly is set up to be a character that isn't the traditional evil devil archetype, with his first on-screen "deal" being him telling a girl that the favor he wants from her is for her to get her life together bc she deserves better. The whole show is a deconstruction of Lucifer's (the protagonist of that show's) struggle with insecurity of how everyone sees him for being evil (and his reputation being so) despite the show presents him as someone who acts if not always fully moral but is still very much on the heroic side. He is even framed for murders by humans & his self-hatred over how God made him an evil incarnate is something he internalized despite throughout the show we see he clearly has a sense of protecting the innocent & punishing the guilty & being completely honest and just pretty much a misunderstood hero rather than anything close to a villain protagonist…?
I've been avoiding Agatha because of boycotting Marvel (the whole Sabra situation was my last straw) & it's extra deeply frustrating because sapphic witch content is 100% something I love to delve into. Probably shouldn't have watched this one because now I'm extra mad I'm not watching AAA 😅
I'm pretty sure Wanda gets out fast after bringing the rocks down. There's a zip of red magic that zooms out of there right at the last minute.
I'm not really into the MCU at this point. I was committed through Endgame, but after that I was superheroed out. But I did watch Multiverse of Madness and I think the movie provides evidence that she lives. Plus if you don't see a body, you can't count them out. 😆
I’ll admit I was disappointed when it turned out Billy made the road real and that it was originally a con Agatha created but I really loved your take about enjoying the journey
I would like to add to the acusations argument that they would be called witches anyway because of this reasons too:
Lilia a lunatic woman (their visions could fit as dementia) witch.
Alice a woman that only takes care of herself and nobody else → witch.
Jen a black business woman → witch.
Agatha plain evil (+ being crazy at the beggining) → witch.
Our beloved teen witch it's queer also a witch.
Rio a beautiful woman that anyone would go crazy or the incarnation of a fem fatale → witch.
Finally, the exception Ms. Heart which is the archetype of what a patriarchal society expects from a woman. Spoilers (the first one to die)
Raise your hand when you think about Regina Mills.
Also, I'm still holding onto the headcanon that Wanda is related to Magneto- but she's his granddaughter.
I think you have fantastic point about how series/movies in IP universe can be a little harder to love considering they fall into new hands that threaten to undo what made them great. Fantastic video, also right there with you the Maximoff sibling retcon, they will put in the ground mad about it
Perfect timing, I just binged these series back to back about a week ago. I blame Batman for Victor's death. Oz BLEW UP A CITY BLOCK and Bruce was just not feelin it that week. This is why he needs Robin.
Tbf, as demoralizing as it may sound, I think Batman had bigger fish to fry, considering the show takes place immediately after the Riddler flooded most of the city. He's only one guy. But yeah, having a Robin would definitely make his services more accessible to those under the table.
But Oz didn't blow up the city block - Sofia did! In order to get at Oz yes, but it was HER choice! It is fascinating that so many seem to forget that fact. And Oz then made sure she was arrested for it pretty quick, so why should Batman get involved? She wasn't even framed this time around, just ratted out. The one that arguably was "framed" was Salvatore, allowing Oz to erase himself from the disaster.
Too fantastical for Reeves's world 🤷🏿♂️
Every time I finish one of your videos I make a mental note to go back and look up the songs you put over the credits. This time I remembered! Woo!
This was a very fascinating. Also, I was in favor of giving Homeless people cash upfront for years.
I like that there's an organization actually doing that.
This is a good thing
I'm falling behind at this rate! Ty for the content; hope you're finding time to rest
Your points at the beginning about mob movies and Italian American identity has me thinking about cartel/narcotics movies/TV shows and Mexican American/Chicano identity. And also the larger Latin American community. Thanks ❤
One of my favorite things about agatha all along is that, by the end, she isn't a better person. She's still a villain, she's just a villain that lives Billy like a son and wants to protect him. And Jennifer, Lilia and Alice are all good witches and just become better people as the show goes on.
ETA: Jac should just be put in charge of everything related to the maximoffs and anything that comes out of agatha all along
I just finished watching The Penguin season 1, so glad you’re talking about it because I’m OBSESSED
There is a application of hero's journey and Tarot that end with the card Death and a new cycle the spiritual starts for the remaining major arcanas.
Is it controversial to prefer MCU Agatha over comics Agatha?
Also I recently watched Multiverse of Madness for the first time and kinda liked the dark path Wanda went down. It’ll suck if she stays dead though because she deserves a good redemption/healing arc where she finds Billy and Tommy and maybe even Vision comes back. All she wants is her family so it would be cruel to leave it off there.
Agatha is one of those rare instances where the MCU version is deeper and funnier, and creepier and more interesting all around.
It looks like the comix are taking a cue from this approach because newly revived, young-looking Agatha in the comics seems to have a pretty villainous agenda.
The journey being the point over twists or a grand finale hit me right in the One Piece feels. That series has always been about the journey and growth of the characters on the crew and outside of the crew.
can’t wait to watch this after i catch up on these two shows. i already love that they’re being connected! thank you Princess Weekes
Couldn't care less about the penguin but Agatha All Along has become my all time favourite series. It's funny, witchy, AND it has gorgeous women and lesbians. Marvel will never top this for me!
I coulden't care less about Agatha All Along but the Penguin had become my all time favourite series. Its funny, cruel, AND it has gorgeous woman in it and trans people.(Though no lesbians) I sure hope the Batman 2 will top this.
@@josef-ralfdwerlkotte8333 ok? why don't you write your own goddamn post instead of responding to my comment??
penguin is definitely better but both are definitely overhyped bc they were better than expected
@@GL00MYG1RLi dont think they were trying to attack you. they responded to your comment because they happened to have the polar opposite feelings that you had, and they wanted to point that out by writing a variation of your original post.
@@peanuts7324 AGREED 👍
Fine, I'll watch Agatha, even though I pretty much checked out of the MCU last year and have not watched a live-action Marvel show all the way through since She Hulk ( which was terrible, by the way)
The comment on the backlash AAA got as a women led, woman created show vs The Penguin not getting it because the faces of the show were white men is interesting because Batman: Caped Crusader had a much more comics accurate Penguin than the HBO Max show did, but because the Penguin was genderflipped into Oswalda Cobblepot it got so much flack from incels online despite making much less changes to the history and story of the character than the show about Oz Cobb did. People really do just be hating women no matter what.
Where was Batman? HE WAS AT HOME! WASHING HIS TIGHTS!!! 🤣🤣🤣
I agree! i'm so glad that Batman wasn't in the Penguin show. It would have distracted us from the character arcs of Oz, Sofia and Vic.
“Quick! Everyone into the Iron Maiden!” is a sentence I never thought I’d hear
amo seus vídeos!!
Thank you for saying this. Both were excellent. However, The Penguin fans I have interacted with has them dismissing Agatha
Yeah, some Peguin fans sadly feel a need to claim the show that suits their personal taste as somehow superior. It's tedious. I loved both shows, but I get how someone could love one and not connect to another. They're working in very different worlds.
It's like complaining about 'Macbeth' for not being 'The Wire'.
I love both shows. Btw how would you feel about Zoè Kravitz's Catwoman getting her own series on MAX ?
If she does, I hope they do something interesting to follow up on her letter to Sofia.
I don't like it. She wasn't that interesting to me in the Batman 2022 film. To be fair, outside of Pfeiffer, Catwoman hasn't been interesting to me. In the short amount of scenes he had in the 2022 film Penguin stood out and it showed again in his show.
I enjoyed Agatha a lot and I really appreciated this breakdown! Gotta support women's wrongs.
I have honestly been obsessed with how perfect your eye makeup is during this episode and it’s almost distracting. Great video though!
Subscribed. Thank you. Needed this channel
😊 this was interesting, thank you. Also Agatha All Along ahhhh 💜💜 and witches 💜🌻
Great video! But what lipstick are you wearing!?!?! It’s stunning.
Woah never been here this early before
Off to watch this Nebula!
Great video Princess! I appreciate your analysis of The Penguin. I have a question: why no direct mention of the the fact Oz can't ever be a "made man" and fully initiated into the mafia because he's not Italian? No matter how high he climbs or how much he styles himself as an aristocrat, the highest levels among the oldest families will always be blocked to him.
Off topic but Gotham Penguin is best Penguin because Robin Lord Taylor thank you end of discussion. 💖
loved the outro song
As a fat man myself, I'm going to respectfully disagree on that the Penguin needed a fat actor in the role.
Especially considering Colin Farrell was cast at a time when they were basing him off of Telltale Batman. Besides, actors gain and lose weight all the time for roles, why put someone through that to play a part. Fat isn’t a race or identity. It’s just a state of being. Everyone one way or another is capable of switching between the two in their lives, regardless of the varying difficulty person to person and ignoring the economic influences that affect that as well.
I think that we’ve seen non fat Penguins before I would have been fine without the need of the suit. Overall I do still love Colin’s performance but it is something I thought about
@@Princess_Weekes Not fat so take this with some salt, but there is a part of me that tentatively hopes that this performance opens up space for fat actors to get more roles, maybe? Definitely not an ideal situation and I agree we should be talking more about it, but since we are in a world where there is a lack of both fat actors with high visibility+experience, and roles for fat people that are not jokes or downright cruel, maybe something good can come out of this problematic situation.
Maybe I'm just coping idk. I don't feel as viscerally bothered by this as I do with other examples of fatsuit usage and I'm not quite sure why.
One thing I absolutely couldn’t shake off while watching both shows as a darkskin black woman who has ALWAYS been a huge fan of DC and Marvel is how black women were portrayed in both of these shows… For me, The Penguin just straight up ignored us so I’ll start with Agatha. I appreciate that Jen was there but the first thing I noticed is during everyone’s “torture” sequence in the fancy house scene, no one else had physical violence in their moments, Jen was the only one who was getting drowned in the kitchen sink by some white dude. Also, why did Jen have to be straight up bald headed? All the other witches had distinct, feminine styles and features whereas they made Jen look like little bill in a pink dress😭. They had her freaking out and panicking at all times whereas everyone else seemed to have always operated in sound mind and purpose (except Agatha but that’s the point for her). Also, we didn’t get a full on back story regarding Jen’s background meanwhile everyone else had great backstory’s. People are saying she didn’t get a story because she’ll come back in different marvel projects. If I’m honest I highly doubt that, since AAA didn’t give her much to work with besides being the bald black witch who was always freaking out. Also, look how they treated Monica Rambeau in both Wanda Vision and The Marvels, she still doesn’t have a great backstory or anything to work with besides being Maria’s Daughter. The actress is beautiful and talented (Teyana) but isn’t being taken care of in my opinion.
Now the penguin… they didn’t even want to give us dark skin black women which is just annoying. I saw a lot of dark skin black men in multiple roles throughout this series : dad, waiter, gangsta, bystander.
But the darkskin black women? NOWHERE to be found the first few episodes. Everyone is light and mixed (which there is absolutely nothing wrong with that) but it’s gotta be apparent at this point that shows have an aversion to putting darkskin black women in main roles STILL.
I desperately looked for a woman who looked like me and I only found it in 2 horrible ways.
A.) The Arkham officer who was telling Sofia to get in the room aggressively
B.) a small snippet of a darkskin black woman dancing and taking the drugs during the “Bliss” episode.
The only other time I saw a small speck of darkskin black women was during Sofia’s speech when she was wearing the red dress during the flashback episode of that fundraiser she made for women. They were all older women by the way so it’s not like the show even wanted to give us a young and beautiful dark skin black women.
We never saw darkskin black women look desirable or powerful. Just aggressive and drug obsessed. The only time we get a decent black woman was when Bella Royale makes her 2 small cameos. I just can’t help but notice these things as a black woman viewer who has been a long time fan of these comic book adapted movies.
This definitely matters and we shouldn’t be silenced or sidelined for feeling this was when watching tv shows and movies. We see they are making crappy attempts with implementing black-ISH/black adjacent people.
I think that's being a bit unfair to AAA on black representation. The actress is bald and looks fantastic.
The Penguin didn't have a fairly decent role for Carmen Egojo. Yes, I understand she's mixed and very light skinned but she was great in the role. Jamie Lawson, however, is a beautiful sister, and played a small role that could potentially lead to something larger in the sequel series considering her importance as the mayor-elect.
does anyone the Moon Knight series had more thought put into the horror supernatural parts of it, as well as more mental health commentary like the 5th episode of that series, post Agatha?
also; this channel is so educational. this and lexual media's vid on history of black witchcraft is
👍
what i meant was, i wish the moon knight show structurally felt like a tv show that cared consistently about the mental health storytelling like ep5's story(ofc this is up to the DID system comm to decide, i heard many systems loved MK - thats great) AND i wish this show put more thought into supernatural horror in MK like Agatha & werewolf by night imo.
I was impressed by Moon Knight, because it had a lot of conflicting elements in the source material that were difficult to put together coherently (some of which also has kind of messy optics): heavily stigmatized mental illness, Egyptian culture(al appropriation), supernatural horror, Moon Knight being Jewish serving an Egyptian God, and Moon Knight being one of the more violent Marvel heroes while having the previously mentioned stigmatized mental illness.
They touched on all of these things, some more to the detriment of others. I don't envy the director having to put all of the previously mentioned things into a coherent Disney+ show plot while being respectful to both real life people and the source material.
When it comes to presenting DID (or mental health commentary) they could have gone farther, but they did decide very strongly on doing a few things:
1) Reinvent Moon Knight's background for his DID to be more in line with how DID manifests in real life. (No "gaining moon powers caused it" or secret Nazis)
2) Insist on divorcing the expression of Moon Knight's DID from his violence (to the point of reinventing Steven Grant to be a complete pacifist).
3) Present DID itself as not purely negatively impacting Moon Knight's life or needing to be "cured."
IDK if it is a net good, but it's still way better than how almost all other superhero film/shows treat people with DID like monsters.
I watched only The Penguin but I did enjoy it quite a bit. Your video is also great and I am wondering about watching Agata as well.
I am one of the people who's like "what was it all for?" when it comes to Agatha All Along. Like, I get your argument (and it *is* a great series) but it does feel like the stories of Lilia and Wendy end up being just thrown aside. I get Sharon just being in the wrong place at the wrong time, but Lilia's episode in particular loses a lot of power when you realize she's sacrificing herself for a coven that's not really even that united.
I also don't like that "I kill my covens" "so do I" line at the end. What they both have done is in no way comparable.
That said I loved the video!
Just a heads up but I'm not getting your push notifications when you upload :( Love your content and enthusiasm!
Why is your makeup always so good?!
11:04 this blew my mind
Okay, hold on. I agree that there was "doubts" about Agatha All Along (and I will debate you on Multiverse of Madness "ruining" Wanda. That blame totally falls on Brian Michael Bendis, without whom there would have been no Multiverse of Madness.) But Agatha All Along became doubt proof, chud proof, right-wing orange man supporter proof. While The Penguin got a lot of praise and some internet buzz, Agatha All Along became a monster. I'm still coming across UA-cam shorts and TikTok lip syncing Down the Witches Road. And I find it weird how people complain about these things being part of big franchises. Did we miss the the MCU came from Marvel comics? Are they supposed to become A24 now that they make movies. I mean these are super hero properties. There's no escaping that. Why do so many keep fighting it? It's like wanting Anime to be more like stop motion or Saturday Morning cartoons. (Look it up, kids.) I hate the idiotic complaint about the end of Wandavision. "It had a CGI super hero fight." What exactly did people expect from properties based on super hero comics? A dance number? Maybe Wanda and Agatha could have sat down for a nice cup of Earl Grey and discussed their differences? These character come from properties based on adolescent power fantasies. So why is everyone so shocked that the super hero character have super hero fights. IMO that's just a dumb expectation. I don't want Little Women hoping for a samurai sword fight at the end. And I shouldn't. But people got nuts because the super people with super power have super powers fight.
the only reason i wanna watch agatha all along is because of aubrey plaza
You'll wish she had more screen time.
The Penguin gave me a new experience. You start out liking Oz and end up disliking him. That’s quite an achievement!
Unpopular opinion:
But I personally feel that the reason most villain spinoffs don't work is because sometimes we ignore why a villain worked as a villain to begin with. Now while there's no denying that certain films/books/TV shows/video games go into great detail about the pathologies of their villains, explaining what made them resort to their actions, sometimes there should be a case for villains who DON'T really have a pathology, let alone are suppose to have one, BUT THAT'S WHAT MAKES THEM WORK.
Sure, some of them are psychopaths who have certain traits such as a certain obsession, being very fastidious, sadistic, or have a distaste for specific people. But "why these villains are the psychopaths they are" should never really be explained or even hinted at, which is THE WHOLE POINT. Sometimes villains are written as less of a fleshed out character and more of a manifestation of evil itself. A good example of someone like this too, is Judge Holden from Blood Meridian. Someone who's beyond logic or explanation, not a puzzle that can be solved. A villain is simply a villain, because THEY ARE and THEY WILL. You don't know where they came from, can't go through their background, and can look into some former identity of them, as if they just spawned into existence to take power without realizing or caring about the chaos they're causing or psychologically torment whoever they feel like, while smiling about it. They are the fundamental reason why you don't just go around and pass that power randomly, and why such a hero must do their duty of stopping them and be the leader we must look up to.
Therefore, adding in a backstory to a villain, can sometimes strip from them this disturbing ambiguity, contradicting the entire essence of their character.
To me, Agatha as a "antihero/villain" didnt work. I think, I would have enjoyed the show more, if Teen had been more of an antagonist to her and if her killing Alice would have been taking more seriously by Lillia and Jennifer. Imo, after Alice's death, Lillia and Jennifer should have been more focused on either killing Agatha for their own survival and/or trying to beat her to the end of the road.
17:43 I do think Colin Farrell’s natural accent would have been a great choice for Oz as much as I love the weird Jersey accent
In fairness to Colin Farrell’s casting, he auditioned for The Batman with the intention to play Oz as a thin man. It was the makeup department who suggested to try out more comic-esque stage makeup, which the director then fell in love with. So the answer to why a larger actor wasn’t cast was because it wasn’t originally intended for the role, but a cosmetic choice pushed afterwards by the art team
Also, I feel like he was only casted due to Devito possibly recommending him, since they coincidentally were together in Tim Burton's Dumbo. And usually when adapting or rebooting a comic book movie, most would look to the former for advice.....
Anyone know what song is used for the credits? Its a bop
White Castle by Tabemono
@@campfire87 ty it was driving me crazy lol
The fatsuit was interesting because he had to spend three hours getting into his costume every day. So, logistically, it would have made more sense to hire a fat actor. But, on the other hand, credit where credit is due, he was able to act through that suit so well I repeatedly forgot he was in there. It was like the movie all over again.
What’s the song at the end?? Can’t find it in the description
Thanks
Good video! Don't have much else to say lol just commenting for the algorithm.
I enjoy Jennifer Kale being mentioned but I also feel like the first bisexual character of Marvel got equated with Gwyneth Paltrow was unfortunate. She's always been a hedge witch and working class heroine.
A lot of people were fancasting Brendan Gleeson for ages to play Penguin and he and Farrell has heavy overlap.
Great video
I really like agatha to display a complete vilain I mean she use her son to kill innocent ppl this is so bad. But also we can see a redemption but it is not a easy one. Not in the straight line sometimes she go to her old way by habits . I think it is much more interesting.
Thanks for supporting direct cash to people in need! These funds will empower them to decide for themselves how best to escape poverty.
Not every villain deserves some kind of moral grey area where you sympathize for them. Sometime's a villain can be downright evil and beyond redemption.
Completely unrelated to this great video but Princess looks so beautiful in this video 🥰
the joann clip!!! i miss her!!!
I'm a little WTF on Colin Farrell playing the Penguin too hehe. He does do a good job, though.
I watched on nebula so I’m here to drop a like
I love some imperfect ending, they are just more life like.
Does anyone know what the end credit song is?
Yeah, I refused to watch The Penguin because even though it's been well received, I cannot wrap my head around the fact we're giving a fit dude in a fatsuit a leading role in 2024. And no one else seems to be even bringing that up? It's crazy.
It feels like critics tend to equate "actor not being recognizable" with "an amazing performance", and it's part of why they love to give cis actors awards for playing trans characters and so on. But like... no. Just... no. Just find people who match the roles without needing suits and a ton of makeup. There are enough actors. There are equally talented actors, if not even more talented actors, that are not getting a chance to star in these productions because of these stupid trends.
I generally feel exactly the same way you do. I don't want to see Gary Oldman's make-up Churchill show.
To me, this one transcended that stuff because there's so much brilliant writing, acting, and insight in the show. Farrel' does beautiful work under the prosthetics, but some of the other actors are what really thrilled me about the show. Especially Sofia and Vic.
It's because he was so good in the role that, for the most part, nobody cares. He disappears into the role.