For the rolling chassis: ua-cam.com/video/7vetbPQBeLU/v-deo.html Hans Heyer stepping out of his Lancia Beta Montecarlo at the Norisring in DRM(todays DTM). Later that year, he won the championship 😂
Guess I didn't look hard enough! Thanks for finding this, it's a miracle he was ok! The Lancia's cage seems a little more stout than some of the other cars in this video.
Group 5 is a perfect example of how mechanical diversity can make racing interesting, even if a single make/car dominates. I can only imagine how much crazier today's race cars would be if they weren't so strictly regulated. We've already seen the Porsche 919 Evo unhinged, and that was incredible.
@@bobanppvc you ought to see the videos of the Holman & Moody 427 Ford Galaxies doing battle with Mini Coopers and Alfa Romeos at Goodwood (if you haven’t already)! Some of the best racing to watch
More freedom to innovate makes motorsport research more diverse and increases the odds of technical sponsors being interested in developing what they envision for trickle down to their products. More factors of uncertainty from diverse concepts also reduces the odds that everyone quickly throws their core concepts away and blindly follow the leader’s path as an open-ended regulation means the likelihood of finding an even better solution than the current leader (instead of playing catch-up) is higher. Diverse car characteristics also means distinct advantages in different scenarios e.g. speed profiles of various corners, biasing overtaking under braking or accel for different cars. The best concept for Red Bull Ring may not be very competitive at Spa even though they are not even that different for modern F1 car concepts. Closing up the field has always been a cost-limited argument where lesser funded teams throw tantrums that they can’t be expected to develop the ridiculous things top teams can. With cost cap now being tried in F1 this concern is gradually phasing out, and it would be silly to continue having such long rule books where everything is mandatory and everyone has to spend thousands of hours fine tuning every surface by millimetres.
@@icehawk3442 That’s just throwing everything into the domain of engineers. The one thing we know from that is that it means the drivers have less and less influence over the outcome and that’s got to be a bad thing. Next thing you know, you’ve got people complaining that drivers were so much more skilled in the old days and that the cars practically drive themselves these days. As one who for 35 years, still competes regularly in sport - sailing - I can tell you that the best racing is in one design fleet racing, where all the boats are identical and the best sailors stand out. There’s no reliance on who has the faster boat. Because, in the end, all the boats have the same potential performance but there can only be one winner and that is the sailor or crew who makes the fewest mistakes and adapts best to the conditions. Contrast that with CanAm racing from the 60s and 70s. That series was a victim of its own success but to was _totally_ dominated by two marques: McLaren and Porsche. Nobody else stood a chance, however good they were, mainly because they simply couldn’t match the budgets. Not even Jim Hall’s Chaparral team or Lola was able to match those guys. When you open things up to development, the risk of failure is very high.
@@R4M_Tommy although important to note, apart from their Le Mans effort with the 959-based 961, Porsche also took their Group B 959 to Dakar (although the car was detuned and modified specifically for the race). Ferrari never participated in any Group B road or rally race with their 288 GTO unfortunately.
Yeah, admittedly I glossed over those with the text on screen at the end of the 935/78 section. I wanted to keep the video on the shorter side and there's so many awesome cars, I couldn't talk about them all. Maybe I'll do a separate video on Kremer specifically at some point!
The Kremer cars were practically unbeatable from everything I’ve read. They definitely deserve their own video at some point. Watching those revival races showcase how much of a monster they are. I couldn’t imagine wresting one around a circuit for hours on end. Those drivers had a screw loose to want to drive those.
Group 5 has to be my favorite track based racing series to ever exist, the unique aesthetics that the loose rulebook broght with it are imho some of the most beautiful race cars to ever hit a track.
In the late 60s and early 70s group six was for prototypes under 3 liters. Group five was for sports-racers under 5 liters with minimum production of 50 until 1969 when it was reduced to 25.
Correct, those were the 1st and 2nd generations of group 5. In the video, I was referencing "prototypes" as the 3rd generation of group 5 which were previously the "Group 6 Prototype Sports Cars". Those ran from 1972 to 1975 from what I could find.
As a kid, born in Zolder, I saw the Zakspeed Capri's, thundering by in the so called DRM races. That stood for Deutsche Rennwagen Meisterschaft. German Racecar Championship. Along with BMW's, Porsche's etc... Those colours, those flames, those sounds, the crowds back then... All is burned into my eardrums, retina and nostrills... The bright colours, white, red, orange, yellow, blue and green... The roaring sound of thunder and awe... The heydays... DRM became Bergischer Löwe, and that became DTM... And DTM, died few years ago, into the limbo... The limbo of GT cars... I miss the freedom...
British super saloon and thunder saloon series had the freakiest bodies with absurd aero straight out of a comic book, probably needs a separate video. I expected a mention of the Greenwood "spirit of America" Corvette, by far the craziest racing 'Vette which went the other way of fitting the biggest engine possible instead of going the turbo way. Solid attempt at the 24 hr race in Le Mans too.
Thanks for the ideas! And yes, the Greenwood Vettes were epic! They make a couple subtle appearances in the video even though I didn't mention them 😉 Those are probably worth their own video too!
I love the Group 5 car and I respect all the drivers who had the confidence to even sit in one. I loved this video because of how in depth you went into the topic, I never knew how much these cars really developed the racing world. Just a well put together video!
A video about Group 7 would be a great accompaniment to this video. No minimum production, no lower weight limit, no engine limit. As long as it had lights, two seats, a windscreen and bodywork covering the wheels, it was no holds barred. It gave birth to the most powerful circuit cars ever allowed to race.
Take a look into the McLaren M20. That’s a car that gets overlooked by the successes of the Porsche 917/10 and /30, but considering the M20 had no turbos, holds and impressive record. Especially David Hobbs’ 1973 drive where he finished on the podium behind Donohue a few times.
Gr5 SP was so freaking great! the cars were amazing, The Skylines and the 320i Turbos being amongst my favourite, have a bop-ed grid setup in Assetto Corsa with a bunch of these beasts...... chiils even in sim.
The fan and manufacturers didn't "get bored" of the prototypes, Ferrari, Alfa and Matra left for F1 because the cost of running two top class programs was too high, Gulf-Mirage sold out to Harley Cluxton who couldn't run the team at it's former level. Not many other could compete with the turbo prototypes from Porsche and Alpine so the FIA created group 5 to fill out the dwindling field. Their reign lasted until IMSA started the GTP class in 1980 and the FIA followed with group C two years later.
Correction. The Group 5 Rollcage has been tested during the 1980 Norisring DRM race when Hans Heyer crashed on lap 7 and rolled over several times. He escaped the wreckage of his Lancia unhurt. Clips can be found on Y-tube. Thanks Ben for your admission. Great video. I’ve seen them Brutes Racing.
haha so thats why the cars look like they are hiding underneath all the aero i didnt know they all had to retain specific body parts haha, it made for some interesting designs!
Loved that Era, and the days of IMSA just before "Factory" teams took over, and you had Privateers competing and winning against full on Factory teams, and the start of a lot of exotic materials, Carbon Fiber brakes being like $6k a corner. I think in the states it was late 70's, very early 80's.
I've always loved the Group 5 cars! As a 1/32 scale slot car collector, they are among my favorite cars to have. They just look so bonkers, yet are still recognizable from the street car version. Great video!
Thank you! That's awesome, I played with slot cars here and there as a kid, but after watching how fast some of the modern ones can go, I kind of want to get back into them!
Group 5 is what most people think of when they think of race cars. Most of the iconic race cars between the late 60s to 90s are from this sport or its predecessors.
thanks for making this video, these cars are so overlooked compared to all the other groups of that era. I've always loved the extreme bodyworks on these, not to mention they were fast af
Thought I'd watch it later, but ended up watching the whole video at once. Very interesting, well grouped information and nice storytelling style. As for a non-English-speaking user, there is also an understandable accent. Thank you. Speaking of crazy rules and cars, would you like to make a video about BTCC Super Touring cars in the 90s?
Such an underrated class of motorsport, Love those Group 5 cars. The best sportscars have always been the cars with some kind of road based rules, just like the old GT1's. Hypercars could have been the same but sadly not. Real shame that Group B circuit racing never really took off. Remember the Porsche 961 was a group B car. I'm assuming here, but I imagine the IMSA GTO and Trans-Am cars of the 80's owed something to Group 5.
Silhouette cars were still racing in club races in Britain in the 90s - I remember a Calibra which did 200mph, a 7 litre Vauxhall Carlton and a Hond Prelude that looked ready for Le Mans.
Great video! As a teen, the over the top designs of the special production cars sparked my imagination. Not surprisingly I was also a great fan of the Funny Car category in drag racing.
Another great footage on "old school" motorsport from TMS. Thanks for this! Just for information: The German Hans Heyer rolled a Lancia Beta Montecarlo after a break disc failure when breaking for the "Grundig Hairpin" at the Norisring in 1980. He climbed out of the totally smashed car with his only concern ot not leave his famous "Tiroler Hat" in the wreakage. I witnessed thaton!
I've always loved the Super Silhouette cars of Gr.5. While I was born in '87 my late father would always talk about them & show me old magazines he had collected. I especially like the Tomica Iron Mask DR30 Silhouette from '82 & '83.
I remember thinking about welding on brackets to farther clamp the cylinder head to the block. But Porsche just what, reinforced the head bolts by just welding the head to the block?! X,D
So what's better than that? A titanium block, titanium pistons, rods, and crank, iron rings & sleeves, and a pneumatic valve train? How about a titanium 2 stroke V8? Titanium Wankel boosted to the moon, with an electric motor handling low end torque, and the wankel sandwich welded together or bolted together with extra clamps, like they're containing a star?
ex F1 driver Rolf Stommelen was killed in a 935 at Riverside in April 83 after the rear wing broke. From pictures of the wreck the cage looked to have held up however Rolf died of head injuries, possibly I read somewhere the seat may have broken but cant confirm that.
I got the recommendation for this video, and I must say. This is fucking excellent. I love how well put together this is, how excellently you narrate this, the funny little graphics you use. I love it. Instant subscribe!
When i was a little kid i saw Gilles Vlleneuve win a race in a BMW at Mosport in Canada in 1977. A picture of that car hung in my dad's workshop for a long time. I think it was this class of car. Down the rabbit hole i go.....
I find the image at 2:55 to be quite fascinating. The Capri on the bottom of the page is a euro-spec MkIII built in either the British or Cologne Germany factory, and not a German Capri II for the US market. What I find interesting is, at first glance it would appear to have 390mm TRX wheels, but they are not. To the best of my knowledge (for Ford) TRX was a USA only "wheel, tire, and suspension package" offered first in 1979 on the Mustang Pace Car and Mercury Capri (read Mustang). That being said, the wheels in the 2:55 image are not TRX as the actual TRX wheels had a center cap that covered the lug nuts and the slots in each of the spokes were straight not tapered like those in the picture. If anyone knows if the wheels shown were a Ford factory wheel or what brand they are please comment below. As I am from the USA I have limited knowedge of all the many varietys of Capris found around the world. I learned to drive in a 79 Mustang Turbo 4 speed Pace Car and owned both a 1976 Mercury Capri II (Ford, Cologne Germany built) and a 1979 Mercury Capri RS (Mustang with TRX and factory box flairs).
You should really look into FIA E2 regulations. They are mainly used in hillclimb but allow for extremely crazy cars. The new performance factor regulations for hillclimb leave a lot of space for extreme cars aswell.
03:06 Correction. The frog-eye headlights were carried over to the bumper of the Porsche 935 not in 1978 but in 1976, when this car was created. One or two races were run with traditional 911-style headlights, then flat noses replaced them.
the zakspeep miller foxbody was the capri spaceframe with the foxbody mustange panels hung from it .they just shipped it over after the series in germany stopped
Great video, was such a great era for racing would love therm to go back to this kind of fun engineering, maybe just limit the fuel they are allowed to have for the race that way power would not go out of control and they would have to balance power and fuel economy.
@@themotorsportstory The closest thing to ridiculously overpowered "street derived" cars with crazy power would probably be current SuperGT cars and late 2010s DTM cars, though there are more restrictions.
I went to see the Zakspeed Capri at Donnington - it just drove away from the rest of the field. It was as quick round there in the dry as Arrows F1 car was in the wet!
Cool video! Regarding the chapter "chassis design", I think it might've missed a pretty important sidestepping of the rules made by Ford for the Capri in some cars in atleast one of the groups: as I recall, the original capri has a solid axle and rear leaf springs, and this was circumvented by retaining a very weak/soft leaf spring setup only to stay true to the rules, and combining it with a separate coilspring setup that did the actual grunt work! ... so a bit like Porsches double rear window but on an even larger scale :) I gotta say that I'm surprised Porsche got away with the reprofiled hood and lowered headlights though. Surely it must've been possible for FIA to state that the actual body shape was altered when the headlights were moved?
Thanks for the additional info, didn't know that! And yes, I had the same thoughts on Porsche's headlights, but I suppose maybe they were able to argue those shapes in the hood were part of the headlight? Either way, I'm sure their competitors weren't happy haha
I've been to a lot of those races of the Deutsche Rennsport Meisterschaft (what means npthing else then German Racing Championchip). The Air Force racetrack at mainz-Finthem was my hometrack, while I went to the Ring and to Hockenheim for the Jim Clark rememberance races. And every year to Nürnberg, where the race took place at the Norisring, which was mostly the former Reichsparteitagsgelände... A lot of fantastic races, always the fight of the Ford underdoge against the 935's in the larger division. The Capri had the so called "Dampfrad" (power wheel), where they could increase the turbo pressure for a certain amount of time. After that, the engine blows up. I remember one race at Finthen, where Manfred Winkelhock was even beside Bob Wollek, using the Dampfrad a little to much and re damaged the car seriously. Such fantastic pilots as Stommelen and Wollek for Porsche. Heyer for Ford and Lancia and Ludwick, Winkelhock, Ertl and van Ommen for Ford, just to name a few.
The 2 cars that do stick out are the Zakseed capri's and the Kremer 935 Porsche. Both legendary. There are still 2 Zakspeed Capri's and a few Kremer Porsches competing in historic racing around Europe alongside many other fantastic cars from the era like the Cologne RS3100 Capri, BMW CSL, BMW M1 Procar to mention a few.
Another great video! Thanks a lot! Damn, I wish FIA allowed a new category with almost no limitations, letting brands go wild for a year or two at least... The technological jump these categories granted was off the charts and boosted a lot of everything (materials, aerodynamics, all sorts of solutions, etc) for the years to come.
Honestly I'm not the biggest fan of circuit racing in general, but that doesn't mean I don't appreciate good bits of zaniness, absurdity and asinine tiptoeing around the rules from all over. addendum: Whenever people start talking about how dangerous group B was, I refer them to John Ficarra's video on 'Indy's forgotten Speed Demon'. Where he talks about racing in the US back in the 1920's. Makes anything since the 40s look perfectly safe. Not just the cars, but the tracks too. (Though I must admit, thanks to a couple of my nieces I have grown fond of sprint racing... they have been learning how to drive those with their gearhead of a dad, who likes racing powerboats... fun side of the family)
@@themotorsportstory I could listen to Ficarra ramble on about the history of cars and motorsport for days. Yeah powerboats are nuts. The really are beasts. Two ton, 30 foot, single engine cranking out 525hp (for that particular class). He was Stock V APBA national champion (on throttle) a couple of years ago.
Amazing ! And I have to say, racing was far more interesting then today, because the technical challenge among car makers! I' ve seen in the '80's a Zakspeed Ford Capri racing on a up hill race, during the european championship, in Svolte di Popoli: certainly it was fast, but the Osella of Nesti was umbelevebly faster! :)
We actually have a burnt Group 5 Zakspeed Capri engine. It was in Vidar Sauthon’s Escort MK3/4 Rallycross supercar (EX Seppo Niittymäki) Sadly the car burnt down in a buss but the engine was partly saved. There are afew parts missing but that will sort out when we fix a guys tractor. He said if we fixed it we get everything we want and need. Not just for the Zakspeed engine😆. But we are thinking of buying the EX Kjetil Bolneset Ford Escort MK3/4 Supercar and putting the engine in that, to use it in Retro Rallycross in England.
For the rolling chassis:
ua-cam.com/video/7vetbPQBeLU/v-deo.html
Hans Heyer stepping out of his Lancia Beta Montecarlo at the Norisring in DRM(todays DTM).
Later that year, he won the championship 😂
Guess I didn't look hard enough! Thanks for finding this, it's a miracle he was ok! The Lancia's cage seems a little more stout than some of the other cars in this video.
hans is also the only man in f1 to get a DNQ, DNF and a disqualification in the same race
@@Gabbu_Plays he's a three time DRM(Deutsche Rennsport Meisterschaft, what's todays DTM) champion. That is what counts.
@@Gabbu_Plays I think the only man who sneaked his way into an F1 race. Was it at the Hockenheimring, after some start chaos or something.
Duralumin
Group 5 is a perfect example of how mechanical diversity can make racing interesting, even if a single make/car dominates. I can only imagine how much crazier today's race cars would be if they weren't so strictly regulated. We've already seen the Porsche 919 Evo unhinged, and that was incredible.
It reminds me of racing in britain in 60s it was v8 mustang vs capri inline 4...On straights mustang was faster but in corners capri would catch
@@bobanppvc you ought to see the videos of the Holman & Moody 427 Ford Galaxies doing battle with Mini Coopers and Alfa Romeos at Goodwood (if you haven’t already)! Some of the best racing to watch
I don’t see how a category dominated by a single marque makes for interesting racing. As an example, I’d rather watch F2 than F1.
More freedom to innovate makes motorsport research more diverse and increases the odds of technical sponsors being interested in developing what they envision for trickle down to their products.
More factors of uncertainty from diverse concepts also reduces the odds that everyone quickly throws their core concepts away and blindly follow the leader’s path as an open-ended regulation means the likelihood of finding an even better solution than the current leader (instead of playing catch-up) is higher.
Diverse car characteristics also means distinct advantages in different scenarios e.g. speed profiles of various corners, biasing overtaking under braking or accel for different cars. The best concept for Red Bull Ring may not be very competitive at Spa even though they are not even that different for modern F1 car concepts.
Closing up the field has always been a cost-limited argument where lesser funded teams throw tantrums that they can’t be expected to develop the ridiculous things top teams can. With cost cap now being tried in F1 this concern is gradually phasing out, and it would be silly to continue having such long rule books where everything is mandatory and everyone has to spend thousands of hours fine tuning every surface by millimetres.
@@icehawk3442 That’s just throwing everything into the domain of engineers. The one thing we know from that is that it means the drivers have less and less influence over the outcome and that’s got to be a bad thing. Next thing you know, you’ve got people complaining that drivers were so much more skilled in the old days and that the cars practically drive themselves these days.
As one who for 35 years, still competes regularly in sport - sailing - I can tell you that the best racing is in one design fleet racing, where all the boats are identical and the best sailors stand out. There’s no reliance on who has the faster boat. Because, in the end, all the boats have the same potential performance but there can only be one winner and that is the sailor or crew who makes the fewest mistakes and adapts best to the conditions.
Contrast that with CanAm racing from the 60s and 70s. That series was a victim of its own success but to was _totally_ dominated by two marques: McLaren and Porsche. Nobody else stood a chance, however good they were, mainly because they simply couldn’t match the budgets. Not even Jim Hall’s Chaparral team or Lola was able to match those guys. When you open things up to development, the risk of failure is very high.
The fact that Group B was introduced to make group 5 less crazy is mindblowing
are you comparing circuit racing to rallying or am i missing something ?
@@DarkIzo yeah im confused too, but group B was indeed very wacky
Group B was never supposed to be a rally class. It was supposed to be for GT cars.
@@DarkIzoGroup B was a class that could be used for any racing event. The Porsche 959 and Ferrari 288 GTO were both built for circuit Group B racing.
@@R4M_Tommy although important to note, apart from their Le Mans effort with the 959-based 961, Porsche also took their Group B 959 to Dakar (although the car was detuned and modified specifically for the race). Ferrari never participated in any Group B road or rally race with their 288 GTO unfortunately.
I wanted someone to make a video about this for soooo long. Thank you very much for appreciating this underrated and legendary series.
Thank you for watching!
@@themotorsportstory Tell us more about the Group 5 Ferrari at the end!
You forgot to mention the most successful 935s. The cars upgraded by Kremer, specifically the 935K3 and 935K4
Yeah, admittedly I glossed over those with the text on screen at the end of the 935/78 section. I wanted to keep the video on the shorter side and there's so many awesome cars, I couldn't talk about them all. Maybe I'll do a separate video on Kremer specifically at some point!
The Kremer cars were practically unbeatable from everything I’ve read. They definitely deserve their own video at some point.
Watching those revival races showcase how much of a monster they are. I couldn’t imagine wresting one around a circuit for hours on end. Those drivers had a screw loose to want to drive those.
Group 5 has to be my favorite track based racing series to ever exist, the unique aesthetics that the loose rulebook broght with it are imho some of the most beautiful race cars to ever hit a track.
In the late 60s and early 70s group six was for prototypes under 3 liters. Group five was for sports-racers under 5 liters with minimum production of 50 until 1969 when it was reduced to 25.
Correct, those were the 1st and 2nd generations of group 5. In the video, I was referencing "prototypes" as the 3rd generation of group 5 which were previously the "Group 6 Prototype Sports Cars". Those ran from 1972 to 1975 from what I could find.
I think it’s important to remember that Group 5 lives on it Time Attack and Japanese Super GT racing, even if it is in spirit.
I think moreso in Time Attack. Wild af aero, near unlimited HP level, balls out privateers. Sounds like the Unlimited Class, but more power crazy.
Australian Super Sedans are close as well, and far less restrictive on engines
@@edugj23 peep the red R32 rocking 1100hp at Bathurst recently that was a rocketship on the straights before hitting the wall midway through the race.
@@izzdin6228 I saw that, such a great racing series. Australia is really the place for semi pro in recent years
@@izzdin6228 Brad the driver of that thing is either a genius or insane. He used to help with time attack R34 at my old job.
I've always been fascinated by those cars but didn't know much about them. Thanks for your work man 👍
Appreciate you watching!
For me Group 5 is the most exciting category in the motor sports history. It was golden era for my age. Thank you for posting 👍
Agreed! Thank you for watching!
i used to draw these cars as a kid but had no clue about the grouping let alone motor racing, i just thought they looked cool. great video
As a kid, born in Zolder, I saw the Zakspeed Capri's, thundering by in the so called DRM races. That stood for Deutsche Rennwagen Meisterschaft. German Racecar Championship. Along with BMW's, Porsche's etc... Those colours, those flames, those sounds, the crowds back then... All is burned into my eardrums, retina and nostrills... The bright colours, white, red, orange, yellow, blue and green... The roaring sound of thunder and awe... The heydays... DRM became Bergischer Löwe, and that became DTM... And DTM, died few years ago, into the limbo... The limbo of GT cars...
I miss the freedom...
Thank you for sharing! That must have been an amazing thing to experience up close!!
British super saloon and thunder saloon series had the freakiest bodies with absurd aero straight out of a comic book, probably needs a separate video. I expected a mention of the Greenwood "spirit of America" Corvette, by far the craziest racing 'Vette which went the other way of fitting the biggest engine possible instead of going the turbo way. Solid attempt at the 24 hr race in Le Mans too.
Thanks for the ideas! And yes, the Greenwood Vettes were epic! They make a couple subtle appearances in the video even though I didn't mention them 😉 Those are probably worth their own video too!
I love the Group 5 car and I respect all the drivers who had the confidence to even sit in one. I loved this video because of how in depth you went into the topic, I never knew how much these cars really developed the racing world. Just a well put together video!
Thank you, really glad you enjoyed it!
Group 05 Special Production Cars Are The Best Cars In The Class That You Ever Seen Before.This Is Cool. Love It.❤
What an amazing video!! Thank you. I'm the guy who built the replica Gp5 Montecarlo back in the 90's. I LOVE this stuff.
Thank you! I haven't built a scale model in a long time, but a quick look at your channel is making me want to get back into it!
Excellent description, with graphics, for a novice fan. Thank you for the details, instead of the jargon and fast talk.
Thank you, that was the aim, so I'm glad to hear you enjoyed!
A video about Group 7 would be a great accompaniment to this video. No minimum production, no lower weight limit, no engine limit. As long as it had lights, two seats, a windscreen and bodywork covering the wheels, it was no holds barred. It gave birth to the most powerful circuit cars ever allowed to race.
Thanks for the idea! Definitely open to doing more videos about specific racing classes like this!
Take a look into the McLaren M20. That’s a car that gets overlooked by the successes of the Porsche 917/10 and /30, but considering the M20 had no turbos, holds and impressive record. Especially David Hobbs’ 1973 drive where he finished on the podium behind Donohue a few times.
Thank you for this. I’m doing a groupm5 kit for my car
Hope it turns out well!
10:33 I caught you saying the word fire at the time it shot out, nice touch! That along with the rest of the video earns you a new sub
Thank you and welcome!
Gr5 SP was so freaking great! the cars were amazing, The Skylines and the 320i Turbos being amongst my favourite, have a bop-ed grid setup in Assetto Corsa with a bunch of these beasts...... chiils even in sim.
Nicely done Sir, a great synopsis of a little known but fantastic period of motorsport history .... and some phenomenal footage!
Thank you, glad you enjoyed!
Group 5 is one of my absolute favorite racing classes ever!
The fan and manufacturers didn't "get bored" of the prototypes, Ferrari, Alfa and Matra left for F1 because the cost of running two top class programs was too high, Gulf-Mirage sold out to Harley Cluxton who couldn't run the team at it's former level. Not many other could compete with the turbo prototypes from Porsche and Alpine so the FIA created group 5 to fill out the dwindling field. Their reign lasted until IMSA started the GTP class in 1980 and the FIA followed with group C two years later.
Correct, those are all reasons that manufacturers' interests in building prototypes waned. Maybe I should have said "lost interest" instead.
Correction. The Group 5 Rollcage has been tested during the 1980 Norisring DRM race when Hans Heyer crashed on lap 7 and rolled over several times. He escaped the wreckage of his Lancia unhurt. Clips can be found on Y-tube. Thanks Ben for your admission. Great video. I’ve seen them Brutes Racing.
'sniffs, scrunches eyes while while using middle finger to push up glasses by the bridge - "well actually....."
Glad you enjoyed the video! And yes, it's a miracle he was unharmed!
Those where the days when watching a race was exciting.
Today is more interesting to look at a merry-go-round.
We still race, it's hard to get sponsors cause no one turns up to watch...
@@aussietruckphotosandmodels8510t's all fr it's all from.the couch now, yeah I like home comfort too, beer a pie and adrenalin!
haha so thats why the cars look like they are hiding underneath all the aero i didnt know they all had to retain specific body parts haha, it made for some interesting designs!
Thanks for this great video! I wish more videos had the engineering design in them, and learning more about the untold stories of the past is great.
Glad you enjoyed, thank you!
Great video. Didn't realise group 5 had so many links to group B.
Thank you!
Loved that Era, and the days of IMSA just before "Factory" teams took over, and you had Privateers competing and winning against full on Factory teams, and the start of a lot of exotic materials, Carbon Fiber brakes being like $6k a corner. I think in the states it was late 70's, very early 80's.
so sick, i remember watching these cars when i was a kid, the wide body look is so good on the cars from that era.
I've always loved the Group 5 cars! As a 1/32 scale slot car collector, they are among my favorite cars to have. They just look so bonkers, yet are still recognizable from the street car version. Great video!
Thank you! That's awesome, I played with slot cars here and there as a kid, but after watching how fast some of the modern ones can go, I kind of want to get back into them!
Yeah my favourite slot car I own is a group 5 zakspeed Capri
Group 5 is what most people think of when they think of race cars. Most of the iconic race cars between the late 60s to 90s are from this sport or its predecessors.
thanks for making this video, these cars are so overlooked compared to all the other groups of that era. I've always loved the extreme bodyworks on these, not to mention they were fast af
Glad you enjoyed it! And yes, it seems they get far less attention despite how awesome they are.
My absolute favorite racing series. Great video!
Thank you!
There was also a group-5 Lotus Europa. Like the rest almost unrecognizable besides the doors. Crazy times. Love them!
Thought I'd watch it later, but ended up watching the whole video at once. Very interesting, well grouped information and nice storytelling style. As for a non-English-speaking user, there is also an understandable accent. Thank you. Speaking of crazy rules and cars, would you like to make a video about BTCC Super Touring cars in the 90s?
Thank you! BTCC in the 90s was amazing, so I appreciate the idea. I'll add it to my list of potential video ideas :)
Such an underrated class of motorsport, Love those Group 5 cars. The best sportscars have always been the cars with some kind of road based rules, just like the old GT1's. Hypercars could have been the same but sadly not.
Real shame that Group B circuit racing never really took off. Remember the Porsche 961 was a group B car.
I'm assuming here, but I imagine the IMSA GTO and Trans-Am cars of the 80's owed something to Group 5.
I would have loved to have seen Group B circuit racing be more successful also
IMSA GTO would've never existed without the Group 5 before, that's for sure.
Silhouette cars were still racing in club races in Britain in the 90s - I remember a Calibra which did 200mph, a 7 litre Vauxhall Carlton and a Hond Prelude that looked ready for Le Mans.
Let's not forget Baby Bertha was technically eligible for the 24hrs. Vauxhall Firenza on steroids, 5 Litre V8, Blydenstein.
Love the zacspeed capri
Amazing! Enthralled! Subscribed! Great work.
Thank you!
Great video!
As a teen, the over the top designs of the special production cars sparked my imagination. Not surprisingly I was also a great fan of the Funny Car category in drag racing.
I had almost forgotten Group 5. Thanks for digging up those bones
Speed over safety? Excellent.
😂 You wouldn't catch me driving one of those cars unless it was in a big open area with nothing to hit
Another great footage on "old school" motorsport from TMS. Thanks for this! Just for information: The German Hans Heyer rolled a Lancia Beta Montecarlo after a break disc failure when breaking for the "Grundig Hairpin" at the Norisring in 1980. He climbed out of the totally smashed car with his only concern ot not leave his famous "Tiroler Hat" in the wreakage. I witnessed thaton!
I Hecking love group 5- the ford capri zakspeed cars were my favourite thing in the world when I was a kid!!
That damn capri was so good lookin to me. Also that giant turbo with monster lag was awesome to hear
Those *Group* *5* aerokits are badass TBH
Just found this channel. Awesome video. Subscribed!!!
Thanks very much, and welcome!
Started to laugh my tears out when he showed what pininfarina did with that Mitsubishi Colt czc (5:19)🤣🤣🤣
We can't let them forget what they created🤣
Group 5 needs to come back
Excellent video
Thanks for the video. I always admired those historic beasts my favourite is Ford Zackpeed Capri.
Easily my favorite also!
Top quality video. Subscribed.
Thank you! Welcome!
Really good video, thank you.
I've always loved the Super Silhouette cars of Gr.5. While I was born in '87 my late father would always talk about them & show me old magazines he had collected. I especially like the Tomica Iron Mask DR30 Silhouette from '82 & '83.
Finally someone on the internet talks about the maddest regulations ever.
Nice work!
This is great history to learn. Thank you.
THEY WELDED ON THE CYLINDER HEADS.
I remember thinking about welding on brackets to farther clamp the cylinder head to the block. But Porsche just what, reinforced the head bolts by just welding the head to the block?!
X,D
So what's better than that? A titanium block, titanium pistons, rods, and crank, iron rings & sleeves, and a pneumatic valve train? How about a titanium 2 stroke V8? Titanium Wankel boosted to the moon, with an electric motor handling low end torque, and the wankel sandwich welded together or bolted together with extra clamps, like they're containing a star?
Things like this, are why I care more about Street racing then the FIA or FIM. The less rules, the better. Run what you brought.
Haha, back then it really was almost like street racing (with huge budgets) with how few rules there were!
Great review . Thank you
Thank you!
ex F1 driver Rolf Stommelen was killed in a 935 at Riverside in April 83 after the rear wing broke. From pictures of the wreck the cage looked to have held up however Rolf died of head injuries, possibly I read somewhere the seat may have broken but cant confirm that.
Very tragic!
I got the recommendation for this video, and I must say. This is fucking excellent. I love how well put together this is, how excellently you narrate this, the funny little graphics you use. I love it. Instant subscribe!
Thanks so much! Welcome!
When i was a little kid i saw Gilles Vlleneuve win a race in a BMW at Mosport in Canada in 1977. A picture of that car hung in my dad's workshop for a long time. I think it was this class of car. Down the rabbit hole i go.....
Apparently he drove it with Eddie Cheever and they finished second. Beauty orange BMW 320 sponsored by Unilock (paving stone company)
Thanks for the informative video!
No problem :)
I find the image at 2:55 to be quite fascinating. The Capri on the bottom of the page is a euro-spec MkIII built in either the British or Cologne Germany factory, and not a German Capri II for the US market. What I find interesting is, at first glance it would appear to have 390mm TRX wheels, but they are not.
To the best of my knowledge (for Ford) TRX was a USA only "wheel, tire, and suspension package" offered first in 1979 on the Mustang Pace Car and Mercury Capri (read Mustang).
That being said, the wheels in the 2:55 image are not TRX as the actual TRX wheels had a center cap that covered the lug nuts and the slots in each of the spokes were straight not tapered like those in the picture.
If anyone knows if the wheels shown were a Ford factory wheel or what brand they are please comment below.
As I am from the USA I have limited knowedge of all the many varietys of Capris found around the world. I learned to drive in a 79 Mustang Turbo 4 speed Pace Car and owned both a 1976 Mercury Capri II (Ford, Cologne Germany built) and a 1979 Mercury Capri RS (Mustang with TRX and factory box flairs).
You should really look into FIA E2 regulations. They are mainly used in hillclimb but allow for extremely crazy cars. The new performance factor regulations for hillclimb leave a lot of space for extreme cars aswell.
Great video!
Thank you!
Love the BMW E21 320i Turbo. 😍
That was very educational thank you
You're welcome, glad you enjoyed!
03:06 Correction. The frog-eye headlights were carried over to the bumper of the Porsche 935 not in 1978 but in 1976, when this car was created. One or two races were run with traditional 911-style headlights, then flat noses replaced them.
I had originally planned to mention more of the 935s prior to the 935/78 but it would have made the video far too long.
Just found out about your channel and im liking it alot!!
Thanks so much!
the zakspeep miller foxbody was the capri spaceframe with the foxbody mustange panels hung from it .they just shipped it over after the series in germany stopped
Great video
Man that Zakspeed ford capri is one badass race car it looks so good too.
My favorite Group 5 car by a long shot!
Hey now ide have fun putting some wild 4 cylinder in that car at 5:17 it looks like it would be a super fun autocross toy lol
Great video, was such a great era for racing would love therm to go back to this kind of fun engineering, maybe just limit the fuel they are allowed to have for the race that way power would not go out of control and they would have to balance power and fuel economy.
I would love that too! I'm sure with modern safety innovations there could be a fair compromise between cool engineering and not killing people.
@@themotorsportstory The closest thing to ridiculously overpowered "street derived" cars with crazy power would probably be current SuperGT cars and late 2010s DTM cars, though there are more restrictions.
I went to see the Zakspeed Capri at Donnington - it just drove away from the rest of the field. It was as quick round there in the dry as Arrows F1 car was in the wet!
Cool video!
Regarding the chapter "chassis design", I think it might've missed a pretty important sidestepping of the rules made by Ford for the Capri in some cars in atleast one of the groups: as I recall, the original capri has a solid axle and rear leaf springs, and this was circumvented by retaining a very weak/soft leaf spring setup only to stay true to the rules, and combining it with a separate coilspring setup that did the actual grunt work!
... so a bit like Porsches double rear window but on an even larger scale :)
I gotta say that I'm surprised Porsche got away with the reprofiled hood and lowered headlights though.
Surely it must've been possible for FIA to state that the actual body shape was altered when the headlights were moved?
Thanks for the additional info, didn't know that! And yes, I had the same thoughts on Porsche's headlights, but I suppose maybe they were able to argue those shapes in the hood were part of the headlight? Either way, I'm sure their competitors weren't happy haha
Group 5 was spechial.
Nice video.
Thank you!
I've been to a lot of those races of the Deutsche Rennsport Meisterschaft (what means npthing else then German Racing Championchip). The Air Force racetrack at mainz-Finthem was my hometrack, while I went to the Ring and to Hockenheim for the Jim Clark rememberance races. And every year to Nürnberg, where the race took place at the Norisring, which was mostly the former Reichsparteitagsgelände... A lot of fantastic races, always the fight of the Ford underdoge against the 935's in the larger division. The Capri had the so called "Dampfrad" (power wheel), where they could increase the turbo pressure for a certain amount of time. After that, the engine blows up. I remember one race at Finthen, where Manfred Winkelhock was even beside Bob Wollek, using the Dampfrad a little to much and re damaged the car seriously. Such fantastic pilots as Stommelen and Wollek for Porsche. Heyer for Ford and Lancia and Ludwick, Winkelhock, Ertl and van Ommen for Ford, just to name a few.
Well produced!
Thank you!
Thank you!
Sempre que a porsche tem sucesso em corridas é em pista e sempre sensacional
The 2 cars that do stick out are the Zakseed capri's and the Kremer 935 Porsche. Both legendary.
There are still 2 Zakspeed Capri's and a few Kremer Porsches competing in historic racing around Europe alongside many other fantastic cars from the era like the Cologne RS3100 Capri, BMW CSL, BMW M1 Procar to mention a few.
Need to try it again
I'd love to see some sort of revival with modern safety technologies. Probably would be hard to get the FIA and manufacturers to buy in though.
Another great video! Thanks a lot!
Damn, I wish FIA allowed a new category with almost no limitations, letting brands go wild for a year or two at least...
The technological jump these categories granted was off the charts and boosted a lot of everything (materials, aerodynamics, all sorts of solutions, etc) for the years to come.
Thank you!
But the cars were mental! hahahahaha. Very informative by the way.Thank you man 🤙
Glad you enjoyed!
Krause Ludwig was driver of that era for Zakspeed. Great program
Quite the wheelman he is!
I loved the Group 5 cars, all those 935s heading to to the corkscrew
The zakspeed mustang and Ferrari bblm were my favorite group 5 race cars ❤
Most beautiful cars I ever seen❤
Honestly I'm not the biggest fan of circuit racing in general, but that doesn't mean I don't appreciate good bits of zaniness, absurdity and asinine tiptoeing around the rules from all over.
addendum: Whenever people start talking about how dangerous group B was, I refer them to John Ficarra's video on 'Indy's forgotten Speed Demon'. Where he talks about racing in the US back in the 1920's. Makes anything since the 40s look perfectly safe. Not just the cars, but the tracks too.
(Though I must admit, thanks to a couple of my nieces I have grown fond of sprint racing... they have been learning how to drive those with their gearhead of a dad, who likes racing powerboats... fun side of the family)
Thanks for the recommendation for the John Ficarra video! How wild! Powerboats are crazy too!
@@themotorsportstory I could listen to Ficarra ramble on about the history of cars and motorsport for days.
Yeah powerboats are nuts. The really are beasts. Two ton, 30 foot, single engine cranking out 525hp (for that particular class). He was Stock V APBA national champion (on throttle) a couple of years ago.
Wwoooh nice video !!! 👍
Thank you!
Amazing ! And I have to say, racing was far more interesting then today, because the technical challenge among car makers! I' ve seen in the '80's a Zakspeed Ford Capri racing on a up hill race, during the european championship, in Svolte di Popoli: certainly it was fast, but the Osella of Nesti was umbelevebly faster! :)
Ya need to look at our Sports Sedans class here in Australia 🇦🇺 as it’s basically been as crazy or crazier since it’s inception.
Thanks for mentioning it! I'd never heard of it to be honest and now I have a new racing rabbit hole to go down haha!
Good stuff!
Thank you!
Nice run. Chicane exit had me clenching lol
It's crazy what some of those drivers at Goodwood can do!
We actually have a burnt Group 5 Zakspeed Capri engine. It was in Vidar Sauthon’s Escort MK3/4 Rallycross supercar (EX Seppo Niittymäki) Sadly the car burnt down in a buss but the engine was partly saved. There are afew parts missing but that will sort out when we fix a guys tractor. He said if we fixed it we get everything we want and need. Not just for the Zakspeed engine😆. But we are thinking of buying the EX Kjetil Bolneset Ford Escort MK3/4 Supercar and putting the engine in that, to use it in Retro Rallycross in England.
Kremer 935 ❤!
Group 5 is the car racing i have always wanted