I guess it's a shame then that Israel wasn't around before '48 so that "Jews like Noam and Ilan" could have gone around attacking it to show what "good Jews" they were thereby preventing countless pograms and massacres, blood libels, the Inquisition, Holocaust, expulsions, forced conversions, ghettoization, etc. (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_antisemitism) What fucking bullshit.
@@ayushkhanna8126 So anti-semitism good until Jews do something you like. That's a terrible barometer, how about not crapping on an ethnic group because you don't like the foreign policy of a country associated with it.
@@GuyShōtō : I didn't talk about antisemitism. I just responded to the comment "Jews are ok so long as they agree with you". This is not about agreeing or disagreeing or 'agreeing to disagree' but about whether you are for against the oppression of another people. If as a Jew you are a Zionist who supports what Israel is doing then you are problematic. Period.
He has talked before about being gifted with a photographic memory. Arguably one of the world’s finest minds. We are truly blessed to have him with us still.
In my high school days, I picked up a copy of the book Gaza in Crisis: Reflections on Israel's War against the Palestinians by Chomsky and Pappé. The work of these two brilliant men produced a lifetime of enquiry and study, and have profoundly influenced my thinking since. These are two wonderful human beings, fighting for a just cause.
ISRAEL - Arab Supreme Court judge - Countless Arab judges - Arab police chiefs - Arab MPs - 1/3 of all Israeli doctors are Arabs (same with university professors) - Freedom of speech & religion - Arab government ministers Arafat died as one of the world's richest dictators IMF still searching for MISSING 70 BILLION $ FOR PALESTINE ALL US, EU, Arab countries & UN aid funds stolen Only recipient - Suha Arafat his dear & beloved wife ($40,000,000) Escaped France (embezzlement) Stripped of Tunisian citizenship-corruption HAMAS COVENANT (Aug 18, ’88) "Israel will exist “UNTIL JIHAD OBLITERATES IT” Article 13: “ No solution for Palestinian question except Jihad." [P. 7] Article 11: “Palestine - an Islamic land for future Moslem generations until Judgement Day.
Israel withdrew from Gaza in 2005. Hamas began launching thousands of ganocidal rockets into Israel the very next day.Terrorizing, traumatizing & potentially killing shell shocked innocent Israeli men, Israeli women & Israeli children. 30 seconds to seek shelter. Do you care, sweetie?..no, no…as a father?..
To my embarrassment I've only just 'discovered' these two brilliant men - this since my increasing despair about Gaza - the polar opposite of either gentleman is Ben Shapiro. I strongly advise the latter to read 'On Palestine' by the two super stars
ISRAEL - Arab Supreme Court judge - Countless Arab judges - Police chiefs - Parliament MPs - 1/3 of all Israeli doctors are Arabs (same with professors) - Freedom of speech & religion - Government ministers Arafat died as one of the world's richest dictators IMF still searching for MISSING 70 BILLION $ FOR PALESTINE ALL US, EU, Arab countries & UN aid funds stolen Only recipient-Suha Arafat his dear & beloved wife ($40,000,000) Escaped France (embezzlement) Stripped of Tunisian citizenship-corruption
Multiple of major truth tellers of these times in the same discussion! I don't know why I am watching this almost one month later!. Thanks to you all for having this discussion!
Noam Chomsky. What a phenomenally inspirational human being. Unimpeachable integrity, out of this world psychological balance, sublime self effacement And a purring Rolls Royce of a mind , unstinstintingly, unwaveringly dedicated to the service of our common humanity .
It's the 30th of October 2023, the 23rd Day of Israel's siege in Gaza. Would it be possible for Ilan and Noam to do a follow-up discussion? The world is on the brink of destruction
Even in his advanced years, still as sharp as ever! Mr. Chomsky, one of my favorite speakers...even though I disagree with much of his entrenched left wing talking points. Great discussion.
I am alumnus of Exeter Univ. and used to work on Prof Chomsky's book Generative Grammar, Proud of the university's discussing Palestine and Israel conflicts. Hope it will contribute to the resolving the problems
Noam I could listen to you talk all day,you are the most intelligent and interesting person I've ever come across. - just wish I could remember half of the factual information that you share with us-Thankyou.
Oh, please! Chomsky has serious limitations. He’s still a Zionist and he refuses to support BDS. He’s wrong on many important matters. For instance, he still can’t accept the JFK was murdered by a conspiracy involving the CIA, Johnson, Hoover. Etc.. It was a coup d’etat that effectively ended the republic. He refuses to even seriously consider that 9/11 was an inside job - which it obviously was and Israel was behind it! He has done some very good work but his limitations are glaring.
@@stevenyourke7901 He's wrong on many important matters = he has a different opinion from you. Chomsky is all about facts and doesn't bother with vague possibilities or theories.
@@MalAnders94 I guess you’re pretty ignorant about 9/11 and the Kennedy assassination. My “opinions” are based on the overwhelming evidence. Chomsky can’t be bothered to examine the evidence. But little fools like you put him on a pedestal. Sad.
@@stevenyourke7901 read Rethinking Camelot. Chomsky points out how the popular image of a liberal peacenik has no basis in reality, he combed through the documentary record, Kennedy's private record shows he was pushing for more aggressive action in Vietnam, at times against the opinions of his advisors. Kennedy was an extremist hawk and it's essentially mainstream liberal propaganda to suggest otherwise. 9/11 as an inside job is so ludicrous that it doesn't really require comment, apart from the fact that all of the radical posturing around this ignores the fact that the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan were each worse than 9/11, you don't have to go looking around dark corners to expose u.s. crimes, it's right there on the front pages. But no one reads
I have no idea why we call ourselves civilized. What is being described is not civilization, it is barbarity and we are fine BarBarians. I read somewhere that it is a conspiracy theory to state that the so-called rich Western countries are determined to kill off "useless eaters" but it really appears that the browner nations and the poor everywhere are being left to fend for ourselves (I'm only poor in Western eyes, otherwise, I'm fairly wealthy in comparison).
Dr. Chomsky, hooray for your strength and dedication! Did you hear Dr. Jeffrey Sach's address to the UN Security Council on November 22, and if so cold you comment?
If the established institutions/agencies of the states doing unfair to the people at large, disorganized crime starts. Of course there is no such firm body to analyize in real time to punish such institutions which are doing illegality.
I really want to hear Chomsky’s opinion on 15 minute cities, compulsory vaccination, WHO, WEF, the farmers protests. No one seems to ask this, Ilan Pappe got close but I’m not satisfied😂
So what I get from this is all the world needs is for Prof. Chomsky to bring down his wizard’s staff and declare, “You shall not pass!” Would that it were so.
it's interesting to reevaluate 2 years later, in light of up to date knowledge about how Covid and the vaccines themselves actually behave, what Chomsky says starting at 45:07. if I'm interpreting correctly, Chomsky says that everyone knew that failing to roll out the vaccines to every poor country worldwide immediately, wealthy people in wealthy countries were basically committing suicide.
42:00---Indeed the GOP is absolutely DESPERATE to stop people voting for the changes they really want, and I hope/pray that most Americans rise against their shameful and criminal acts against democracy for the Mango Mussolini and his moronic minions.
@@stevenyourke7901 Both faces of The American Business Party suck. But Repiglicans actively work against voting, against health care, against healthy ecology and human-supporting policies---so they need to go into the trash first.
It’s really a one party state. The Democrats serve Wall Street bankers and the military industrial complex every bit as much as do the Republicans. Choosing between them is foolish. They argue about cultural issues but they work together on the really important stuff. Biden won’t do a damned thing for the American working people. Liberals are total hypocrites. That’s why so many people voted for Trump. They were betrayed by the Democrats. It’s a mistake to vote for the Democratic Party as the “lesser evil”. It isn’t.
@@stevenyourke7901 Am no lover of Dimocraps. But which is "lesser evil," making voting harder or easier? Expanding or shrinking health care? Raping or protecting ecology? Helping people through lockdown or forcing them back into unsafe workplaces? Them's ya choices till a true People's Party can blast its way in.
@@37Dionysos The lockdowns have been completely unjustified. They’ve done much more harm than good. On that issue, I side with Trump. In fact, I think the pandemic haha been grossly exaggerated in order to provide a pretext to destroy the small businesses and concentrate wealth and power in the globalist the globalist elite. I refuse to wear a mask or get vaccinated. The Democrats are actually serving the globalist elite more than the Republicans. Trump did not start any new wars unlike Obama did. Biden started bombing Syria again. Between Trump and Biden, I think Trump was the lesser evil.
Yes he did. He has gotten a few big things wrong because of his perspective. But he is still a titanic mind and intellectual force. All is forgiven, he is Noam Chomsky
Kalau islam memprioritaskan kehalalan kebenaran keadilan dll walau dimusui. Allahswt pasti esa, kalau dua pasti bebenturan kekuasaan. Kita ikut anis menyita koruptor koruptor yang diloloskan hakim hakim titipan dll. Sebenarnya kekayaan alam emas dll itu cukup untuk memuliakan segenap rakyat dll mati syahid langsung merasa disurga
If I could ask Chomsky anything it would be: You talk highly of internationalism; what is so different between your idea of internationalism and Zionism? In my mind they are closely related.
Both of these distinguished professors are just prolonging the agony of the middle east conflict pretending and trying to get weak minded people like most of the viewers here to believe that there is " justice" in the world between nations; a concept which is not extant in international relations. What they should be doing is acting like mature adults with wisdom, not like self perpetuating agents of ethereal visions. In short they continue the political masturbation of the people who want nothing but to terminate the State of Israel. The problem those people have really has more to do with the shame of many Arab people feeling powerless that a small despised minority, the Jews, suddenly empowered itself and made them and their political leaderships look and feel foolish and inadequate. They don't like it that the refugee nation of Israel beat Arab states and armies in battle and that "white" people beat "people of color" and colonized them. The actual material issues are picayune compared to the issues in the entire world, let alone the middle east. The territory involved is tiny. A few thousand square miles, most of it desert, with no oil or natural resources. (If you exclude the Negev desert, which had tens of thousands of Bedouin, many of whom cooperated with Israel and fought for it in 1948, then the balance of the Palestine Mandate territory has been split between Israel and the Palestinian Authority in roughly equal measures.) The scale of death likewise pales compared to everything else which has gone on in this part of the world. Lebanese Civil War, 200,000 dead. Syrian civil war 500,000 dead. Iraq war 750,000 dead. Iran-Iraq war 1,000 000 dead. Algerian civil war 200,000 dead. Israel/Palestine: In 1948 Israel lost 6000 dead. Palestinians: Aref el Aref's book gives 2000 dead (13,000 "nameless"). BTW, many of the Palestinian refugees "drifted" back to their homes or other Arab areas after 1948; the number can only be guessed at. Assume the right of return: fine. It may be a right, is it a solution? )Even Chomsky agrees on that point. Returning to Palestine, what will the refugee or his children or more likely grandchildren find? An Arab Islamic country? Does he dream of coexistence in a binational state (an idea of some Zionists, never reciprocated by any Arab people) like Noam Chomsky, who still calls himself a Zionist? Will the returning refugee find his street? his neighborhood? More likely he will have the experience of many Palestinians who returned to see their old homes, saw different streets, views, people, sometimes the same house, feeling indignant, angry and sad, but kick out the new tenants? A sad shake of the head. Where is the old baker? The girls' school? the little brook, the stand of trees, the field where we used to play? In life there is loss. Instead of trying to cultivate pipe dreams as an arc of international affairs, these old guys should do the right thing: tell their people: yes there is loss. Yes, there is mourning. Yes you can't make eggs out of an omelette. Tell them the truth: that the Jews didn't come as a conquering army to rob the land of its non-existent resources, of its own grinding poverty. The Jews didn't even want to come. They came because of the tsunami of hate, murder and destruction that was blown their way and they washed up on the shores of Palestine, where at least if they dug into the ground their kids could read the ancient buried things. Israel was not built by Zionists. Zionists wanted to cut a deal with, move in pacifically, maybe some wanted to buy out the inhabitants, maybe some wanted to kick them off the land. Regardless, the vast majority of the Jews came because they were refugees with no place else to go like Mr. and Mrs. Pappe, whose son you hear. It was not ideology that drove them. It was biology, the instinct to live and to protect ones' s wife and children, The Palestinians it is true are not at fault. They were the innocent victims of the Tsunami. against the Jews. But then the Jews revolutionized and turned themselves from this bunch of desperate and despised penniless refugees into a nation. And when the Arab states, in their horror and shame, gave effect to their worst tribal instincts by expelling their Arab Jews who landed in Israel, these Arab states thus had a hand in molding the new nation. A flight of fancy in a moment of anger took wing. Now these two strains of the Jews, the European and the Arab Jews lived together in uneasy (dis)harmony, until recent decades when they they started to intermarry and make babies that were neither European Jews nor Arab Jews. There is a new nation. The Israel nation. They are Jews but they are not "the Jews." The "Jews" are an ancient minority group moving from country to country for almost 2000 years. The Israelis are not "the Jews." They are a nation that enjoys political independence and sovereignty. These two distinguished professors should be telling their supporters, most of whom are young and unsophisticated (appearances to the contrary notwithstanding) to stop their obsessive search for the bad guys who are behind all problems. The most intractable problems arise from the desire to do good. They should be telling their audiences to deal with reality. SHIT HAPPENS. And most of the time it's irreversible. By constantly picking at the scabs without acknowledging the loss, our two professors persist in placing themselves at the head of the problematics instead of the problem solvers. I suspect they know full well that the Israelis are a nation, not less than than the Palestinians. That the Palestinians indeed suffered loss, and that the loss cannot be made up no matter what. That the Arab Muslim land of Palestine, part of the great Islamic Umma, where the sound of the muezzin is heard, where sheep loll on the meadows, where bedouin farmers till the rocky soil on the terraces and the sounds and smells of the old souk both repel and inspire, all that won't come back. You can't do it with some Potemkin style building blocks. By failing to tell the truth our friends here don't allow their flock to do what the human heart needs to do in times of loss: to mourn. Mourning is good for the soul. To acknowledge the truth of loss is cathartic. These old boys deny their followers the emotional catharsis that would better prepare them for the new world of reconciliation and acceptance. By drumming the old war drums dressed in academic accoutrements, they do no favor to to their followers or anyone else naive enough to believe in fairy tale solutions and cartoonish thinking. Who knows? Maybe things will turn around on a dime.לאלוהים פתרונים
This is not a comment. It is an essay. There must be better places to publish it than in 'Comments' to people who mightn't have that much time on the run. SHIT HAPPENS, eh? That leaps out to the eyeball, but its not very inviting. If it is as simple as that why do you need to write an essay?
'a small despised minority'. You are too modest! Doubt anyone has REALLY thought that for decades. On either side. Obviously there are political motives to pretend its the case. Just to be picky, how do you decide the difference between a minority and a small minority? Small at 5,10, 20, 30, 35%?
Ilan Pappe has debunked a lot of your comments. The early Zionists did not arrive peacefully. According to his research the Zionists had begun expelling Palestinians and raiding their villages prior to the 1948 war sending refugees to surrounding Arab countries. It was the arrival of those refugees that put pressure on those countries to send fighters to Israel to stop the expulsion. That is what started the 1948 war. This is Ilan pappe’s analysis based on documents that were declassified in 1979. These documents (diaries, letters, etc) radically debunk the narrative that Israel has spread about how they were founded.
Nakba was result of Palestinians backing Nazis during WWII Opinion: The longer only one side of the so-called Palestinian Catastrophe is cultivated, the longer hatred will continue to be nurtured, while historical facts point to Palestinians openly supporting Nazi propaganda during WWII
The attempt to blame the Palestinians for their fate takes many forms. That’s one of them. The Nakba was result of deliberate actions of the Israel forces in the 1948 after the decision was made to seize more territory than had been allocated to a future Israel under the UN suggested partition in November 1947. To keep a Jewish majority it was necessary to expel a large proportion of the population. Read either Benny Morris (who has become a Zionist apologist) or Ilan Pappe who have separately gone through the Israeli archives. The Zionists knew Israel, like every nation, could only be established by force. They were better prepared to fight it out and thus won the war in 1948. That didn’t resolve the problem which is why the IDF has ever since been the superior armed force in the middle east and seeks to maintain its exclusive possession of nuclear weapons. Israel is not the problem in the world. It is just an extreme manifestation of the crisis of nationalism and the nation-state system. Read the WSWS: Israel and the Palestinians: A state founded on dispossession and ethnic cleansing Jean Shaoul 23 October 2023
What is little discussed ever is the following: Zionist collaboration with the Nazis There is no period of history-prior to the founding of Israel in 1948-that so thoroughly exposed the reactionary character of Zionism and its fraudulent claim to represent the interests of the Jewish people than its conduct during the 1930s. The extent of the political and commercial dealings of the Nazis and the Zionists has been extensively documented by historians. Many of the most important works on this subject have been written by Jewish historians, among whom the most renowned are Saul Friedlander and Tom Segev. In the aftermath of Hitler’s accession to power, the Zionist organizations were inclined to collaborate with the Nazis, even arguing that both Nazism and Zionism were national movements whose “völkisch” principles were compatible. Opposing mass protests or an economic boycott, Zionist representatives from Germany and Palestine met with representatives of the Third Reich and concluded on August 27, 1933 a financial agreement, known as the Haavarah, which, as explained by Friedlander, “allowed Jewish emigrants indirect transfer of part of their assets and facilitated export of goods from Nazi Germany to Palestine.”[7] Friedlander continued: One of the main benefits the new regime hoped to reap from Haavarah was a breach in the foreign Jewish economic boycott of Germany. … The Zionist organizations and the leadership of the Yishuv (the Jewish community in Palestine) distanced themselves from any form of mass protest or boycott to avoid creating obstacles to the new arrangements. Even before the conclusion of the Haavarah Agreement, such “cooperation” sometimes took bizarre forms. Thus, in early 1933, Baron Leopold Itz Edler von Mildenstein, a man who a few years later was to become chief of the Jewish section of the SD (the Sicherheitsdienst, or security service, the SS intelligence branch headed by Reinhard Heydrich), was invited along with his wife to tour Palestine and write a series of articles for Goebbels’ Der Angriff. And so it was that the Mildensteins, accompanied by Kurt Tuchler, a leading member of the Berlin Zionist organization, and his wife, visited Jewish settlements in Eretz Israel. The highly positive articles, entitled “A Nazi Visits Palestine,” were duly published, and, to mark the occasion, a special medallion cast with a swastika on one side and a Star of David on the other. On June 22, 1933, the leaders of the Zionist Organization for Germany sent a memorandum to Hitler, which declared: Zionism believes that the rebirth of the national life of a people, which is now occurring in Germany through the emphasis on its Christian and national character, must also come about among the Jewish people. For the Jewish people, too, national origin, religion, common destiny and a sense of uniqueness must be of decisive importance to its existence. This demands the elimination of the egotistical individualism of the liberal era, and its replacement with a sense of community and collective responsibility. Later, the apologists for the Zionists would attempt to explain away such statements and the Haavarah as survival measures undertaken under desperate conditions, as if the triumph of fascism justifies collaboration. In fact, the response of the Zionists to the brutal persecution of the Jews by the Nazis, and even to their murder, was determined by calculations of its effect on the prospects for Jewish emigration into Palestine. As David Ben-Gurion, the leader of the Zionist movement, infamously declared: If I knew that it was possible to save all the [Jewish] children in Germany by transporting them to England, but only half of them by transporting them to Palestine, I would choose the second-because we face not only the reckoning of those children, but the historical reckoning of the Jewish people.[8] Ben-Gurion also expressed the fear, following the Kristallnacht pogrom, that the event might lead to international sympathy for the plight of the Jews, resulting in various countries relaxing their restrictions on immigration and thereby offering Jews alternatives to Palestine. From WSWS: Genocide in Gaza: Imperialism descends into the abyss David North 19 November 2023
Jews like Noam and Ilan do more to counter antisemitism than any of the other stuff combined.
Israels foreign policy and the wests support of it, tragically enhances antisemitism.
I guess it's a shame then that Israel wasn't around before '48 so that "Jews like Noam and Ilan" could have gone around attacking it to show what "good Jews" they were thereby preventing countless pograms and massacres, blood libels, the Inquisition, Holocaust, expulsions, forced conversions, ghettoization, etc. (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_antisemitism)
What fucking bullshit.
Jews are ok if they don't agree with the oppression of another people. I think that is a good barometer to have
@@ayushkhanna8126 So anti-semitism good until Jews do something you like. That's a terrible barometer, how about not crapping on an ethnic group because you don't like the foreign policy of a country associated with it.
@@GuyShōtō : I didn't talk about antisemitism. I just responded to the comment "Jews are ok so long as they agree with you". This is not about agreeing or disagreeing or 'agreeing to disagree' but about whether you are for against the oppression of another people. If as a Jew you are a Zionist who supports what Israel is doing then you are problematic. Period.
I can't even remember what I read last week. Prof Chomsky, who is well into his 90's, still remembers facts from 1966. Its amazing.
Plus the fact that he makes sense of these facts and doesn't, like many people, use them to forward their own narrow idiological case.
That's one super brain...
He has talked before about being gifted with a photographic memory. Arguably one of the world’s finest minds. We are truly blessed to have him with us still.
Unfathomable brain this guy.
Unfair for anyone debating him, especially when he was 2-3 decades younger.
Lol
In my high school days, I picked up a copy of the book Gaza in Crisis: Reflections on Israel's War against the Palestinians by Chomsky and Pappé. The work of these two brilliant men produced a lifetime of enquiry and study, and have profoundly influenced my thinking since. These are two wonderful human beings, fighting for a just cause.
ISRAEL
- Arab Supreme Court judge
- Countless Arab judges
- Arab police chiefs
- Arab MPs
- 1/3 of all Israeli doctors are Arabs (same with university professors)
- Freedom of speech & religion
- Arab government ministers
Arafat died as one of the world's richest dictators
IMF still searching for MISSING 70 BILLION $ FOR PALESTINE
ALL US, EU, Arab countries & UN aid funds stolen
Only recipient - Suha Arafat his dear & beloved wife ($40,000,000)
Escaped France (embezzlement)
Stripped of Tunisian citizenship-corruption
HAMAS COVENANT (Aug 18, ’88)
"Israel will exist “UNTIL JIHAD OBLITERATES IT” Article 13: “ No solution for Palestinian question except Jihad." [P. 7] Article 11: “Palestine - an Islamic land for future Moslem generations until Judgement Day.
Brig General Richard Kemp. Commander of UK forces in Afghanistan UN testimony
ua-cam.com/video/VBnOqxGJanI/v-deo.html
Israel withdrew from Gaza in 2005. Hamas began launching thousands of ganocidal rockets into Israel the very next day.Terrorizing, traumatizing & potentially killing shell shocked innocent Israeli men, Israeli women & Israeli children. 30 seconds to seek shelter. Do you care, sweetie?..no, no…as a father?..
To my embarrassment I've only just 'discovered' these two brilliant men - this since my increasing despair about Gaza - the polar opposite of either gentleman is Ben Shapiro. I strongly advise the latter to read 'On Palestine' by the two super stars
I adore this man more than any other single human being on the planet alive today. We are so blessed to have him.
ISRAEL
- Arab Supreme Court judge
- Countless Arab judges
- Police chiefs
- Parliament MPs
- 1/3 of all Israeli doctors are Arabs (same with professors)
- Freedom of speech & religion
- Government ministers
Arafat died as one of the world's richest dictators
IMF still searching for MISSING 70 BILLION $ FOR PALESTINE
ALL US, EU, Arab countries & UN aid funds stolen
Only recipient-Suha Arafat his dear & beloved wife ($40,000,000)
Escaped France (embezzlement)
Stripped of Tunisian citizenship-corruption
You must not have a great social life
bro what about your father? mother? spouse? kids? your best friend?
Dr. Chomsky is a living treasure.
Multiple of major truth tellers of these times in the same discussion! I don't know why I am watching this almost one month later!. Thanks to you all for having this discussion!
Noam Chomsky. What a phenomenally inspirational human being. Unimpeachable integrity, out of this world psychological
balance, sublime self effacement
And a purring Rolls Royce of a mind , unstinstintingly, unwaveringly dedicated to the service of our common humanity .
Excellent summary!
Thank you for inligting us with the knowledge to comprehend what we creaved
It's the 30th of October 2023, the 23rd Day of Israel's siege in Gaza. Would it be possible for Ilan and Noam to do a follow-up discussion? The world is on the brink of destruction
Even in his advanced years, still as sharp as ever!
Mr. Chomsky, one of my favorite speakers...even though I disagree with much of his entrenched left wing talking points.
Great discussion.
Hope Prof Chomsky gets 200 years old ❤️
I am alumnus of Exeter Univ. and used to work on Prof Chomsky's book Generative Grammar, Proud of the university's discussing Palestine and Israel conflicts. Hope it will contribute to the resolving the problems
Thanking UA-cam for giving us this opportunity to listen to such highly intellectual teachers.
Gratitude for your great service to truth and global understanding and peace.
So good to hear this, much gratitude to the speakers here.
Noam I could listen to you talk all day,you are the most intelligent and interesting person I've ever come across. - just wish I could remember half of the factual information that you share with us-Thankyou.
Breath of fresh air. Both Pappe and Chomsky are lucid on these issues.
Very educative and informative 👌
Actual lecture starts at 9:00
Amazing gathering! Thx
We are privileged to attend this conversation between two of the most prominent historians of contemporary era!
This was refreshing
Absolutely enlightening. Thank you for doing and posting this.
Eu me sinto honrada de ter nascido tantas décadas depois desses homens e vê-los juntos e dividindo essa mesma sala de debate
Oh my goodness. The Jordan River.
My eyes are wide open. Bewildered
Thank you all; and special thanks to Prof.Chomsky & Prof.Ilan Pappé and whom organized this event ..
So worthwhile to hear!
The truth will out. It may take many agonizing years, but the light will shine on the truth.
Watching from Australia.
Bless Chomsky! He is one of the Philosopher Kings Plato was talking about.
Also Bless Ilan Pappe a hope for peace.
Oh, please! Chomsky has serious limitations. He’s still a Zionist and he refuses to support BDS. He’s wrong on many important matters. For instance, he still can’t accept the JFK was murdered by a conspiracy involving the CIA, Johnson, Hoover. Etc.. It was a coup d’etat that effectively ended the republic. He refuses to even seriously consider that 9/11 was an inside job - which it obviously was and Israel was behind it! He has done some very good work but his limitations are glaring.
@@stevenyourke7901 He's wrong on many important matters = he has a different opinion from you. Chomsky is all about facts and doesn't bother with vague possibilities or theories.
@@MalAnders94 I guess you’re pretty ignorant about 9/11 and the Kennedy assassination. My “opinions” are based on the overwhelming evidence. Chomsky can’t be bothered to examine the evidence. But little fools like you put him on a pedestal. Sad.
@@stevenyourke7901 read Rethinking Camelot. Chomsky points out how the popular image of a liberal peacenik has no basis in reality, he combed through the documentary record, Kennedy's private record shows he was pushing for more aggressive action in Vietnam, at times against the opinions of his advisors. Kennedy was an extremist hawk and it's essentially mainstream liberal propaganda to suggest otherwise.
9/11 as an inside job is so ludicrous that it doesn't really require comment, apart from the fact that all of the radical posturing around this ignores the fact that the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan were each worse than 9/11, you don't have to go looking around dark corners to expose u.s. crimes, it's right there on the front pages. But no one reads
Only Norman Finkelstein is missing from this pre eminent trinity of scholars on this subject.
Enlightening me about what I wasn’t thinking of
those guy papé and chomsky are big brains
Extremely intellectual and very intelligent person ❤
Glad you mentioned Prevent.
I have no idea why we call ourselves civilized. What is being described is not civilization, it is barbarity and we are fine BarBarians. I read somewhere that it is a conspiracy theory to state that the so-called rich Western countries are determined to kill off "useless eaters" but it really appears that the browner nations and the poor everywhere are being left to fend for ourselves (I'm only poor in Western eyes, otherwise, I'm fairly wealthy in comparison).
Holy moly! I thought Howard Hughes passed away a long time ago!
Ilan Pappe hasn't chaired the Emil Touma Institute until 2006, according to his Exeter University site.
Dr. Chomsky, hooray for your strength and dedication! Did you hear Dr. Jeffrey Sach's address to the UN Security Council on November 22, and if so cold you comment?
I hope you are all well now.
If the established institutions/agencies of the states doing unfair to the people at large, disorganized crime starts. Of course there is no such firm body to analyize in real time to punish such institutions which are doing illegality.
I was told there would be self hating Jews here. Please point me in their general direction.
Yellow is my favorite color 😎🙌💛🤍🕵️♀️🕰👂💯
20:00 Norm gets a mention. _JC
I really want to hear Chomsky’s opinion on 15 minute cities, compulsory vaccination, WHO, WEF, the farmers protests. No one seems to ask this, Ilan Pappe got close but I’m not satisfied😂
Please. Find a way to turn up the volume on Your end. We can only tune up so much. Noam was barely audible.
‘’Barely audible’’?!? 😵 Not to everyone, tough!
Bonsoir est ce qu on peut avoir la traduction en français svp ?
So Gandalf in our age is called Noam Chomsky. I'm okay with that.
So what I get from this is all the world needs is for Prof. Chomsky to bring down his wizard’s staff and declare, “You shall not pass!” Would that it were so.
@@neurountangled LOL I wish
63 likes, Noam remembers facts from 1966.
wow, amazin video. how come no comments?
Hey friend, about to watch this. Old Chomsky is making tons of videos these days. Yes a conversation with Ilan Pappe is always worthwhile.
@@archyology I liked the beginning when there were like 30 faces.
Committee established in 1953
it's interesting to reevaluate 2 years later, in light of up to date knowledge about how Covid and the vaccines themselves actually behave, what Chomsky says starting at 45:07. if I'm interpreting correctly, Chomsky says that everyone knew that failing to roll out the vaccines to every poor country worldwide immediately, wealthy people in wealthy countries were basically committing suicide.
❤
How to be an activist and bring change in spite of the established power structures/
FromEgypt, we love our President sissi.
Start at 09.00 min
Stop Genocide and massacre in Palestine
Born in 63
Police protection?
42:00---Indeed the GOP is absolutely DESPERATE to stop people voting for the changes they really want, and I hope/pray that most Americans rise against their shameful and criminal acts against democracy for the Mango Mussolini and his moronic minions.
The Democrats are no better.
@@stevenyourke7901 Both faces of The American Business Party suck. But Repiglicans actively work against voting, against health care, against healthy ecology and human-supporting policies---so they need to go into the trash first.
It’s really a one party state. The Democrats serve Wall Street bankers and the military industrial complex every bit as much as do the Republicans. Choosing between them is foolish. They argue about cultural issues but they work together on the really important stuff. Biden won’t do a damned thing for the American working people. Liberals are total hypocrites. That’s why so many people voted for Trump. They were betrayed by the Democrats. It’s a mistake to vote for the Democratic Party as the “lesser evil”. It isn’t.
@@stevenyourke7901 Am no lover of Dimocraps. But which is "lesser evil," making voting harder or easier? Expanding or shrinking health care? Raping or protecting ecology? Helping people through lockdown or forcing them back into unsafe workplaces? Them's ya choices till a true People's Party can blast its way in.
@@37Dionysos The lockdowns have been completely unjustified. They’ve done much more harm than good. On that issue, I side with Trump. In fact, I think the pandemic haha been grossly exaggerated in order to provide a pretext to destroy the small businesses and concentrate wealth and power in the globalist the globalist elite. I refuse to wear a mask or get vaccinated. The Democrats are actually serving the globalist elite more than the Republicans. Trump did not start any new wars unlike Obama did. Biden started bombing Syria again. Between Trump and Biden, I think Trump was the lesser evil.
CHOMSKY GOT THE ENTIRE COVID19 SCENE WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Yes he did. He has gotten a few big things wrong because of his perspective. But he is still a titanic mind and intellectual force. All is forgiven, he is Noam Chomsky
How so?
Yes, he certainly did.
@@pookiecatblue I can't find anything about what you guys are talking about.
Chomsky makes mistakes too. His misstep on the Khmer Rouge as one example
Ben Shapiro would lose his mind over this 😂
Google UA-cam censors. And I hate that. If you.would like to know more ask. I no longer provide knowledge without being commissioned.
He lost me when he talked about the plandemic and Black Lives Matter and sanders. 😂
Well even NC is not perfect...
Yeah...me too.
"I am happy to be a fascist!"
- Miri Regev, Israeli Minister of Culture
She said it! But you must NEVERsay Israel behaves like the Nazis, no way, that makes you an anti-semite.
Ha, business has been devoid of moral responsibility from the beginning. 😅
53, I have 5 pierced holes in my left ear, and 3 holes in my right. Hmm😎🙌👂🕵️♀️🕰
Who was the first to call holocaust denial?
You have a yellow cup.
Kalau islam memprioritaskan kehalalan kebenaran keadilan dll walau dimusui. Allahswt pasti esa, kalau dua pasti bebenturan kekuasaan. Kita ikut anis menyita koruptor koruptor yang diloloskan hakim hakim titipan dll. Sebenarnya kekayaan alam emas dll itu cukup untuk memuliakan segenap rakyat dll mati syahid langsung merasa disurga
He got it wrong about BLM.
If I could ask Chomsky anything it would be: You talk highly of internationalism; what is so different between your idea of internationalism and Zionism? In my mind they are closely related.
Pretty much everything Zionism and internationalism are complete opposites
Nuclear-weapon-free zone in middle east. US law re nuclear arms!!! Israel nuclear arms! (~Minute 30)
Except for Noam’s comments on the unreliable vaccines, this is great!
Both of these distinguished professors are just prolonging the agony of the middle east conflict pretending and trying to get weak minded people like most of the viewers here to believe that there is " justice" in the world between nations; a concept which is not extant in international relations. What they should be doing is acting like mature adults with wisdom, not like self perpetuating agents of ethereal visions. In short they continue the political masturbation of the people who want nothing but to terminate the State of Israel. The problem those people have really has more to do with the shame of many Arab people feeling powerless that a small despised minority, the Jews, suddenly empowered itself and made them and their political leaderships look and feel foolish and inadequate. They don't like it that the refugee nation of Israel beat Arab states and armies in battle and that "white"
people beat "people of color" and colonized them. The actual material issues are picayune compared to the issues in the entire world, let alone the middle east. The territory involved is tiny. A few thousand square miles, most of it desert, with no oil or natural resources. (If you exclude the Negev desert, which had tens of thousands of Bedouin, many of whom cooperated with Israel and fought for it in 1948, then the balance of the Palestine Mandate territory has been split between Israel and the Palestinian Authority in roughly equal measures.) The scale of death likewise pales compared to everything else which has gone on in this part of the world. Lebanese Civil War, 200,000 dead. Syrian civil war 500,000 dead. Iraq war 750,000 dead. Iran-Iraq war 1,000 000 dead. Algerian civil war 200,000 dead. Israel/Palestine: In 1948 Israel lost 6000 dead. Palestinians: Aref el Aref's book gives 2000 dead (13,000 "nameless"). BTW, many of the Palestinian refugees "drifted" back to their homes or other Arab areas after 1948; the number can only be guessed at.
Assume the right of return: fine. It may be a right, is it a solution? )Even Chomsky agrees on that point. Returning to Palestine, what will the refugee or his children or more likely grandchildren find? An Arab Islamic country? Does he dream of coexistence in a binational state (an idea of some Zionists, never reciprocated by any Arab people) like Noam Chomsky, who still calls himself a Zionist? Will the returning refugee find his street? his neighborhood? More likely he will have the experience of many Palestinians who returned to see their old homes, saw different streets, views, people, sometimes the same house, feeling indignant, angry and sad, but kick out the new tenants? A sad shake of the head. Where is the old baker? The girls' school? the little brook, the stand of trees, the field where we used to play? In life there is loss. Instead of trying to cultivate pipe dreams as an arc of international affairs, these old guys should do the right thing: tell their people: yes there is loss.
Yes, there is mourning. Yes you can't make eggs out of an omelette. Tell them the truth: that the Jews didn't come as a conquering army to rob the land of its non-existent resources, of its own grinding poverty. The Jews didn't even want to come. They came because of the tsunami of hate, murder and destruction that was blown their way and they washed up on the shores of Palestine, where at least if they dug into the ground their kids could read the ancient buried things. Israel was not built by Zionists. Zionists wanted to cut a deal with, move in pacifically, maybe some wanted to buy out the inhabitants, maybe some wanted to kick them off the land. Regardless, the vast majority of the Jews came because they were refugees with no place else to go like Mr. and Mrs. Pappe, whose son you hear. It was not ideology that drove them. It was biology, the instinct to live and to protect ones' s wife and children, The Palestinians it is true are not at fault. They were the innocent victims of the Tsunami. against the Jews. But then the Jews revolutionized and turned themselves from this bunch of desperate and despised penniless refugees into a nation. And when the Arab states, in their horror and shame, gave effect to their worst tribal instincts by expelling their Arab Jews who landed in Israel, these Arab states thus had a hand in molding the new nation. A flight of fancy in a moment of anger took wing. Now these two strains of the Jews, the European and the Arab Jews lived together in uneasy (dis)harmony, until recent decades when they they started to intermarry and make babies that were neither European Jews nor Arab Jews. There is a new nation. The Israel nation. They are Jews but they are not "the Jews." The "Jews" are an ancient minority group moving from country to country for almost 2000 years. The Israelis are not "the Jews." They are a nation that enjoys political independence and sovereignty. These two distinguished professors should be telling their supporters, most of whom are young and unsophisticated (appearances to the contrary notwithstanding) to stop their obsessive search for the bad guys who are behind all problems. The most intractable problems arise from the desire to do good. They should be telling their audiences to deal with reality. SHIT HAPPENS. And most of the time it's irreversible. By constantly picking at the scabs without acknowledging the loss, our two professors persist in placing themselves at the head of the problematics instead of the problem solvers. I suspect they know full well that the Israelis are a nation, not less than than the Palestinians. That the Palestinians indeed suffered loss, and that the loss cannot be made up no matter what. That the Arab Muslim land of Palestine, part of the great Islamic Umma, where the sound of the muezzin is heard, where sheep loll on the meadows, where bedouin farmers till the rocky soil on the terraces and the sounds and smells of the old souk both repel and inspire, all that won't come back. You can't do it with some Potemkin style building blocks. By failing to tell the truth our friends here don't allow their flock to do what the human heart needs to do in times of loss: to mourn. Mourning is good for the soul. To acknowledge the truth of loss is cathartic. These old boys deny their followers the emotional catharsis that would better prepare them for the new world of reconciliation and acceptance. By drumming the old war drums dressed in academic accoutrements, they do no favor to to their followers or anyone else naive enough to believe in fairy tale solutions and cartoonish thinking.
Who knows? Maybe things will turn around on a dime.לאלוהים פתרונים
This is not a comment. It is an essay. There must be better places to publish it than in 'Comments' to people who mightn't have that much time on the run. SHIT HAPPENS, eh? That leaps out to the eyeball, but its not very inviting. If it is as simple as that why do you need to write an essay?
'a small despised minority'. You are too modest! Doubt anyone has REALLY thought that for decades. On either side. Obviously there are political motives to pretend its the case. Just to be picky, how do you decide the difference between a minority and a small minority? Small at 5,10, 20, 30, 35%?
@@jacpratt8608
5% is a small minority
10% is a substantial minority
20 % is a big minority
35% is a huge minority
Ilan Pappe has debunked a lot of your comments.
The early Zionists did not arrive peacefully. According to his research the Zionists had begun expelling Palestinians and raiding their villages prior to the 1948 war sending refugees to surrounding Arab countries. It was the arrival of those refugees that put pressure on those countries to send fighters to Israel to stop the expulsion. That is what started the 1948 war.
This is Ilan pappe’s analysis based on documents that were declassified in 1979. These documents (diaries, letters, etc) radically debunk the narrative that Israel has spread about how they were founded.
White Robert Johnson Sharon Jones Karen
Secuarlizim
Beardo weirdo
Them Israel haters is fun to hear
So many clowns)))
Nakba was result of Palestinians backing Nazis during WWII
Opinion: The longer only one side of the so-called Palestinian Catastrophe is cultivated, the longer hatred will continue to be nurtured, while historical facts point to Palestinians openly supporting Nazi propaganda during WWII
Lmao non-Israeli source please? Also many Jewish militias also aligned with nazis to get Jews to move to Palestine, your ignorance is a disease.
The attempt to blame the Palestinians for their fate takes many forms. That’s one of them.
The Nakba was result of deliberate actions of the Israel forces in the 1948 after the decision was made to seize more territory than had been allocated to a future Israel under the UN suggested partition in November 1947.
To keep a Jewish majority it was necessary to expel a large proportion of the population.
Read either Benny Morris (who has become a Zionist apologist) or Ilan Pappe who have separately gone through the Israeli archives.
The Zionists knew Israel, like every nation, could only be established by force. They were better prepared to fight it out and thus won the war in 1948. That didn’t resolve the problem which is why the IDF has ever since been the superior armed force in the middle east and seeks to maintain its exclusive possession of nuclear weapons.
Israel is not the problem in the world. It is just an extreme manifestation of the crisis of nationalism and the nation-state system.
Read the WSWS:
Israel and the Palestinians: A state founded on dispossession and ethnic cleansing
Jean Shaoul
23 October 2023
What is little discussed ever is the following:
Zionist collaboration with the Nazis
There is no period of history-prior to the founding of Israel in 1948-that so thoroughly exposed the reactionary character of Zionism and its fraudulent claim to represent the interests of the Jewish people than its conduct during the 1930s. The extent of the political and commercial dealings of the Nazis and the Zionists has been extensively documented by historians. Many of the most important works on this subject have been written by Jewish historians, among whom the most renowned are Saul Friedlander and Tom Segev.
In the aftermath of Hitler’s accession to power, the Zionist organizations were inclined to collaborate with the Nazis, even arguing that both Nazism and Zionism were national movements whose “völkisch” principles were compatible.
Opposing mass protests or an economic boycott, Zionist representatives from Germany and Palestine met with representatives of the Third Reich and concluded on August 27, 1933 a financial agreement, known as the Haavarah, which, as explained by Friedlander, “allowed Jewish emigrants indirect transfer of part of their assets and facilitated export of goods from Nazi Germany to Palestine.”[7]
Friedlander continued:
One of the main benefits the new regime hoped to reap from Haavarah was a breach in the foreign Jewish economic boycott of Germany. … The Zionist organizations and the leadership of the Yishuv (the Jewish community in Palestine) distanced themselves from any form of mass protest or boycott to avoid creating obstacles to the new arrangements. Even before the conclusion of the Haavarah Agreement, such “cooperation” sometimes took bizarre forms. Thus, in early 1933, Baron Leopold Itz Edler von Mildenstein, a man who a few years later was to become chief of the Jewish section of the SD (the Sicherheitsdienst, or security service, the SS intelligence branch headed by Reinhard Heydrich), was invited along with his wife to tour Palestine and write a series of articles for Goebbels’ Der Angriff. And so it was that the Mildensteins, accompanied by Kurt Tuchler, a leading member of the Berlin Zionist organization, and his wife, visited Jewish settlements in Eretz Israel. The highly positive articles, entitled “A Nazi Visits Palestine,” were duly published, and, to mark the occasion, a special medallion cast with a swastika on one side and a Star of David on the other.
On June 22, 1933, the leaders of the Zionist Organization for Germany sent a memorandum to Hitler, which declared:
Zionism believes that the rebirth of the national life of a people, which is now occurring in Germany through the emphasis on its Christian and national character, must also come about among the Jewish people. For the Jewish people, too, national origin, religion, common destiny and a sense of uniqueness must be of decisive importance to its existence. This demands the elimination of the egotistical individualism of the liberal era, and its replacement with a sense of community and collective responsibility.
Later, the apologists for the Zionists would attempt to explain away such statements and the Haavarah as survival measures undertaken under desperate conditions, as if the triumph of fascism justifies collaboration. In fact, the response of the Zionists to the brutal persecution of the Jews by the Nazis, and even to their murder, was determined by calculations of its effect on the prospects for Jewish emigration into Palestine. As David Ben-Gurion, the leader of the Zionist movement, infamously declared:
If I knew that it was possible to save all the [Jewish] children in Germany by transporting them to England, but only half of them by transporting them to Palestine, I would choose the second-because we face not only the reckoning of those children, but the historical reckoning of the Jewish people.[8]
Ben-Gurion also expressed the fear, following the Kristallnacht pogrom, that the event might lead to international sympathy for the plight of the Jews, resulting in various countries relaxing their restrictions on immigration and thereby offering Jews alternatives to Palestine.
From WSWS:
Genocide in Gaza: Imperialism descends into the abyss
David North
19 November 2023
Chomsky is overrated, and Pappe is a fool!
Gender studies….. with attitude pronunciation… uh boy…. bye…