Even thought the pen writes beautifully, going through the experience you went through and with the pen falling apart, it will just leave a sour taste in my mouth every time I will use the pen.
Considering the economic climate you'd think both companies would be ensuring quality above and beyond expectations. There's a saying business, "Once you lose a customer, it's nearly impossible to get them back".
That's why I buy only Japanese pens now except for the occasional cheaper brands that won't raise my angst too much if they aren't up to snuff. Thanks for sharing.
I had the same nib problem with Appelboom! When I wrote to them, they explained the situation. But no information until then. I told them that they should let the customer know up front. Apparently that hasn't changed. Yipe! The cap ring thing is absolutely unacceptable!
Waterman and Parker were bought by Newelll Rubbermaid in 2001, and their quality took a sharp turn south when it happened. For awhile they weren't even selling their pens with anything other than a medium nib, but perhaps that was only for the budget varieties. I have only had one pen serviced by a manufacturer (only one that needed it) since I have been in the hobby, and that was my raden vanishing point. Bought in 2011, and in 2017 the door stopped sealing, causing the nib to dry out. Namiki had me ship it to them at my cost, they replaced the internals and shipped it back for free. Did not accuse me of mishandling the pen, although when I asked what the cause was (to prevent it with this and my other VPs), their explanation of what usually causes the issue I was seeing led me to conclude that the damage was indeed my fault. From the day it was sent out to when it came back was about two months, IIRC.
Paying more, one would expect and appreciate the higher quality in service and craftsmanship. The dent on the nib that is the wrong size, the unusual outer packaging and the lack of a cartridge convertor. These three areas would most certainly agitate my inner-self. Let alone the six months, half a year waiting period, only to find out it's the wrong sized nib! Certainly inkquiring 😏 Although I acknowledge your perception of yourself being lucky, even if it did write well, I would not keep it. Just because of the service and the craftsmanship itself. I would feel betrayed, disrespected, not appreciated. I don't care if Queen Elizabeth created a pen company and that is the service they provide. I'm giving my hard earned income to a company, I would rather give it to another that appreciate value and quality service.
I have never personally touched (even seen) the Waterman Carene fountain pen, so I was particularly interested in your review. As always, your thorough, entertaining review was excellent. My budget does not permit a decision to buy one, so I will enjoy your usage! In truth, I probably would not choose to buy one if I could justify the expenditure. Your rant convinced me that I would not find the QC to be what I expect for such a pen. I LOVE GOLDSPOT PENS!
So sorry to hear of your troubles, Doug. I don’t know about the Netherlands, but certainly here in the U.K. the retailer is entirely responsible for changing the pen, as you’ve bought from the retailer and not the manufacturer. (Also the pen would fail at the “merchantable quality” test - pens at that (or any other) price point should not have the cap rings falling off!). (And I’m pretty sure we’re talking about European consumer law, and not just U.K. It always surprises me what a raw deal consumers get in the USA and Canada.) Thank you for another 1st rate video, Mr Sir Professor Lord Rathbun of Rathbunshire.
Beautiful pen, Doug. Thank you for another honest review. I feel your pain. I get slobbering mad at these pen companies when issues like yours occur, which seems to be happening more frequently. I’ve had to deal with similar problems on pens I paid in excess of $200. In my opinion, if a company charges more than $10 for a pen, it should be perfect! When I tell my non-fountain pen friends that I’ve paid more than $10 for a pen…a pen, they freak out and I am embarrassed. I avoid the whole price discussion. Imagine when that same pen has flaws that are NEVER found in a 30 cent BIC ballpoint! Arrrrrgh! I had a Carene on my radar but I think I’ll pass now. :(
Jeff I always crack up at those conversations too. Most of my friends now know in at least some vague way that I collect fountain pens as a hobby, but in general I avoid the discussion of price. My wife knows, and similar to the cost of equipment for my day job (DJ and media production), we just let her pretend to not know how much things cost🤣
I have a Waterman Deluxe Black and Silver Carene bought from Harrods in London in 1999. It comes with a lifetime international guarantee. So much for progress.
I feel like this is the way of the world now. At the risk of being cynical, the whole "you must have broken it yourself" just doesn't surprise me at all. I also had a similar experience with Appelboom - my first order ever from them included a TWSBI pen, the new Edelstein ink of the year, and a couple of other items. Aside from the fact that the packaging in no way resembled the beautiful packing job you've displayed on your channel more than once (I believe my order was relayed through one of their US retail stores then just put in a USPS box), the Edelstein ink showed as available on their website but then was out of stock and held up the order for several weeks. Magically, the day I reached out to cancel the order,I was informed that the entire order was en route to their Boston store. In the end, the products all arrived, but the availability on the website vs product delay was a big turn-off.
Well I cannot believe the struggle to get this and considering its release date was so long ago. I would understand if this was release day and there was no accurate way of getting more stock in within a couple months but this has been a long time coming. Fact I would say, your review of your first Carene was what I feel you lured me onto your Channel. And a quick and decisive overview of the original you stated you had received the original was beautiful it was well-designed was well-balanced and it wrote like butter. This is probably one of the first reviews that really ignited me into the fountain pen world in recent years. A funny take would be the stub nib is ultra rare as the nature of the nib you will recieve is somewhat a lottery at this point. However the joke ends there as the price point is simply outrageous.
I feel your pain. While disappointed in Waterman for their QC, I am more disappointed in Appelboom. They are a smaller outfit and have a reputation for great customer service, as you have said before, and I personally have experienced. Waterman could care less about customers- if they lose one someone else will fill the gap. On top of all that, you have promoted Joost on your channel many times; unfortunate that they let you down. As someone else said here, the distasteful experience detracts from the pen and for me using the pen gives one PTSD ( Pen Tragedy Stress Disorder)
Love the rant ❤. The pen is beautiful but I won’t buy it after seeing this video and Stephen Brown’s where he said his pen leaked. Yikes! The nib looks like the Star Trek Federation logo and I liked it for that reason. There are too many other magnificent pens with flawless reputations or stellar customer service for my money. If Waterman had treated you better, that might have changed my mind.
I promised to pick someone up at the airport later with thunderstorms and roasting hot temperatures in the forecast (on top of the normally unbearable traffic). So this brilliant 23:51-second video is surely the highlight of my day.
And after all that the thing fell apart? Dang. Kudos to you for enjoying it anyway, rather than stomping on it. It is mighty pretty, up there in E95s territory.
I have had a few Waterman pens. My only concern is that all of them wrote wider than expected, much like Pelikan pens. But, the model is beautiful and the nib is stunning. I wonder if an EF is available. Great video, as always.
That’s a horrible experience, Doug. Now I’ve got to check the cap ring on mine. I hope Joost has a “nice” conversation with the staff member(s) who mishandled your order.
Very unfortunate to hear the pratfalls of this beautiful pen. I have 2, a green, which was a floor model and a brown from an auction. The floor model writes crappy and I bought it a long time ago, way before I was made aware that nibs can be adjusted. Another problem with the floor model was the alignment of the nib and barrel end - it didn't line up as advertised. Being a floor model, a repair was out of the question. I looked at an online video that showed how to make the adjustment and I'm here to tell you and all interested parties, do not attempt anything you see in those repair videos! I found out that the grip section screws into a plastic sleeve in the barrel and by accident or happenstance, it slid out, albeit with considerable force. Then you just align the grip and plastic sleeve with the finial and gently slide it back it. I love the way your broad writes.
Wow! I was considering a second Waterman. I bought my first Carene shortly after your first review. Now I don't think I will buy another. It seems Waterman is now failing on 2 fronts, quality & service! 😞 Thanks for the review!
I'm with you on love for the Carene - if anyone were cruel enough to force me to pick one pen only to keep, it would definitely be that one. That being said, it sounds like Applebaum really screwed you on this purchase in multiple ways - from sending you a damaged/used pen (which was probably already voided from Waterman's end before they shipped it) to dishonesty/carelessness about nib sizes costing you extra in shipping. It's good to know about these experiences for those of us who are looking for the best place for high value pen purchases. I'm surprised you were as patient as you were during the "rant" section!
They are beautiful pens indeed, though a tad heavy, slim and slippery for me for longer writing sessions. I ended up selling mine because it leaked ink through the nib and because of the frequent misalignment between the nib and the pen end tip, chamfered profile. Nice review by the way.
Isn’t it interesting how some “plastics” probably were touted in their earliest days as this incredible new material? Precious resin: well, that has to be the material of the elite. No, not until we put a snowflake logo on top. Then, a quite ordinary pen with a good to great nib becomes a legend. In the end, it is all about the logo. Reminds me of the days when every suburban family had a Lincoln SUV on steroids.:) Ford also made the same vehicle in the same factory (it had a little more insulation, some very few bells & whistles). Ford sold the Lincoln in an upscale Lincoln dealership for $14,000 more than the nearly identical vehicle (just different logos & some trimmings). By the way, Ford made over $14,000 on each of those vehicles, each getting about 8 miles/gallon in short-hall driving, which suburban moms did almost exclusively. Somehow most men I knew thought it was safer for their wife and children than the Ford. (It was not.) It was the biggest money-maker for Ford in the period. When gas skyrocketed (combined with other economic issues), Ford/Lincoln lost big time. My point, one American business understands, is that brand names used to mean “guarantee of quality,” but it soon morphed into “BUY ME, YOU RICH FOOLS.” :). Yes, I have been stupid too…just not about cars. 😊
Completely unacceptable as you said, at first I thought that if that happened to me I would've just returned the pen for a refund I don't think I could even like the pen after all that but then I remembered how much you've already paid in shipping fees and oof... Very tough decision indeed. I'd probably still return it just because I'd be so angry at Waterman and I don't want them to have my money haha but I really hope you can fix it or that either Waterman or Appleboom sees this and make it right.
Another great review Doug. Considering the issues and time waiting for your pen then being accused of damaging said pen, your rant was actually very mild (thought I was gonna see some R-rated clips here😂). The pen though is stunning with the inlaid nib. The weight of the pen is surprising considering it is a metal pen. Hopefully Waterman sends you a discount code/coupon or a bottle (or 2) of ink for the issues you had when trying to acquire this pen. Also, congratulations on becoming an affiliate for Goldspot Pens. Again, great review and Happy Writing!
I got angry at Appelboom for the very same reason. I bought a Furore for my better half and wanted a specific gold nib. It was listed as a stocked item, but was not in stock. This delayed the order much more than I was happy with.
A tip for you from a fellow Canadian, if you don’t mind doing the legwork you can self clear packages at your local CBSA office. Also warranty replacements should not be subject to duty and thus not be subject to brokerage. Your replacement was not declared properly and you can bug the retailer for a refund on the shipping and brokerage if you so desire though if they refuse to pay I don’t think the $50 is worth going to small claims court over unless you just want to stick it to them.
As a Christmas gift, I received a Waterman Carene in L'Essence du Bleu (M) and it looks and writes beautifully! Honestly, I wish all fountain pens wrote as nicely as this Carene! It's a treasure and I am in debt to my wonderful wife for this wonderful instrument. Great video and even better rant! (I have another Carene in amber and the ring came off as yours did but my pen suffered a bit of minor cosmetic damage in the process of reattaching it. It works fine and the damage is barely noticeable, but still...why must surgery be performed for a problem that appears to be endemic among such otherwise fine pens? *sigh*) Again, great video and thanks!
This is my first Waterman order and only second from Appelboom. I should have the Carene L'Essence de Bleu on Wednesday. I took about two weeks for the broad nib to be shipped. I'll be on the lookout after watching this video.
Thank you for telling your very frustrating backstory!! I currently have an order pending from the same company since December. Was sent two incorrect (incorrect pens altogether-not just nib size) items, one clearly damaged and the other clearly used complete with ink stains on the barrel. Zero communication unless I initiate it, and the correct items have yet to be delivered. Very much appreciate your review!!!
Thanks for this. Frustrating indeed. Just a note that Appelboom tests the nibs before they go out and will therefore have some water/ink residue in the pen when shipped.
I, too, have both the Waterman Carene Black Sea and Marine Amber (which is particularly beautiful). Both have fine nibs. I thought about getting a fine and medium nib, but the Waterman F seems just wide enough for me... and I hate the blotting and feathering of slightly wider nibs on the poorer paper I sometimes have to write on. These are lovely pens. I don't have much of a collection and the pens I do have are middling price points (Cross Apogee and Townsend Medallist, a Parker Sonnet and a few cheap Pilots) but I enjoy all of them. Thanks for the review and sorry for the frustrations. One thing I do find is that the end finial does NOT line up with the nib on either of my two Carenes. That DOES upset and offend my OCD-side, I admit.
What a shame things went south like they did. I can't blame you feeling thoroughly disenchanted at the service you received from Appelboom and Waterman this time round. Let's hope both of them get the message that they can and should do better. Yes, they're probably both out of whack because of the Pandemic but, still they know better. The Carène looks all that but, quality control issues at this price point would make me cautious.
I'm perplexed as to why my comment was removed so I'll try again. Wondering if the pen was sent from Europe or redirected to the Boston store they recently acquired, the former Bromfield Pen? I had a order that was repeatedly delayed, then sent with two pens and two absolutely unsecured bottles of ink in a very battered Appelboom box. I had very unedifying calls and correspondence with both the Boston manger and Joost. I shan't be purchasing from Appelboom again.
Same here. Appelboom USA and Netherlands suck. I placed an order by phone on Black Friday at the USA store and the man answering the phone said he would call me when the pens arrived from the Netherlands. I’m still waiting on that call. They are horrible.
Very interesting. My Parker 51(2021 version) that I bought last February last year also had the cap ring separate from the cap. It appears that the two sister companies owned by Newell are either deliberately not using enough glue or their quality control of the glue process is very bad. (I fixed that one myself too. )😀😀😀
Hope you’ll get the Deluxe GT model too which is my favorite of all Carenes.. Interestingly, many ‘Gun metal Silver Trim’ versions are available in Amazon (in addition to Amber, Black Sea and Deluxe )
I hate Karens as much as anyone, but considering how much these cost I kind of expect them to get it right the first time, period. I think you were as patient and generous as only a Canadian or a midwesterner would be. It’s a beautiful pen, but it makes one think twice about wanting one when you hear a horror story like this one. After all, for that kind of money there are a lot of pretty pens out there to select from.
I’d love to see a review of the expert with the pvd coated nib. I’ve never heard of such a thing until I just saw it on Amazon, and I’m curious how that affects performance.
Doug,sorry to hear that you were treated in such a shabby fashion. You are more tolerant than I. Hope your repair work goes well. I don't work on pens. Or guitars. I let the pros do that kind of stuff. Not that I haven't tried(and failed). It costs a lot but,in my case,it's worth it. Love me some "precious resine" pens. 😄 It ain't 20,000 layers of urushi over fossilized narwhal tusk. But you wouldn't know it from the price.
Wow, I am shocked at the pen almost self destructing during the review! I have the Black Sea rhodium and it’s been very sturdy over the past 5 years or so. I’m glad that you report it dries quickly as I thought mine was damaged by someone helping themselves to it once ( 😡 ) Anyway I’m looking for a calligraphy nib for mine. Is it the stub that I need? Excuse my ignorance - I’ve not done any calligraphy for 40 years and I just want to revisit it before I die. Your advice and recommendations would be welcome and appreciated. 😊
A "calligraphy" nib can mean three different things. 1) a flexible nib where the line gets thicker with more pressure 2) a stub (italic) nib where the horizontal line is thin and the vertical line is thick with no pressure, and 3) an architect nib where the vertical line is thing and horizontal line is thick with no pressure. There might be a sub/italic nib out there for the Carene, but I know I waited months and months for Waterman to deliver but got tired of waiting. You could get a BROAD nib and have a nibmeister cut it into an architect - that would work.
Hey 👋🏼 thanks for the information my friend. I forgot to say that I also share your love for guitars and I have a surf green strat with roasted maple neck. I have a 100w fender champion that’s never been turned up above 3 because I live in a block of apartments and I have too much respect for my neighbours. 😂 When you say about using the pen posted - two things… I never knew the technical expression, so thanks, and secondly, I actually write both ways but more often unposted. Does this make me a bad person? Am I going to handwriting hell? Anyway, again, thank you for your help. I have lost the box so may need to locate one on eBay or something.
@@andeegreenAwesome! Posted or unposted is a personal preference. Many people dislike writing with a pen posted. For others, it is a convenience so you don't lose the cap. For me, some pens I post, others I don't - it all depends on the pen. For example, a Parker 51 just WANTS to be posted! Cheers!
Thanks for another great video. It reminded me I have 2 weeks left of a limited time offer from waterman or Parker for any current catalogue pen 50 % off due to an issue with a previous pen. Are there any other waterman or Parker pens you highly recommend?
@@InkquiringMinds thanks that's what I was thinking. I also have the option of rotring items, since they don't make fountain pens anymore I may go for an isograph that I can use for artwork
I got my waterman carene deluxe black from amazon due to a huge discount, I got my pen with a sleeve and a blue box, and one free ink cartridge under the pen pillow, but there is no brochure or booklet. The end finial does not align with the nib of my pen which I felt it should. I ink my pen with waterman serenity blue, my first impression is that it writes similar to a ballpoint, you know that kind of greasy and sticky feeling when writing on paper? Still I consider I got a good deal for a carene. This pen dries too quickly, so as soon as I stop writing I need to cap it, this pen makes me appreciate Pelikan even more, none of my Pelikans dry quickly on any ink I used, ironically my cheap Jinhao 100 nib does not dry quickly too and writes really well....
@@InkquiringMinds thank you! I appreciate your responsiveness and knowledge! I’m looking at either a broad or the stub. Would love to hear your 2 cents on what to pick?
@@kevinlevandoski7117 I would go with a broad rather than the stub. I tried to order a stub and they are so rare, Waterman held my order for more than a month before I changed it so I could at least get the pen!
OMG. What is going on? It's like a Twilight Zone episode. I was here researching because I'm thinking of purchasing this pen, but now I have second thoughts. 😅
Don’t worry. The Carene is an awesome pen and Waterman has one of the best customer services in the business. Don’t forget to register to get their extended warranty and their free nib exchange if you need it!
At that price point, I would feel I got reamed, with no lube and no kiss. I'm not sure I'd consider the extended warranty a bonus, since the initial warranty didn't seem to be ethically honored without an exorbitant amount of trouble. It's like those supplement ads that say "If it doesn't work, we'll send you a second thirty-day supply for free!" I'm so sorry this occasion which should have been filled with joyous excitement was so tainted. As another commenter said, I'm not sure I'd ever be able to pick the pen up again and enjoy it without being reminded of the disappointments to mar the experience. I feel for ya, buddy.
To be fair to Waterman, it was Appelboom that said Waterman wouldn't honor the warranty. I didn't hear that from Waterman. So, perhaps it was Waterman not honoring the replacement of a damaged pen to one of their retailers - not a customer? I dunno.
I have in the past picked up some pretty decent pens from non-specialist pen shops where there was a bit of damage to the packaging (or the original box was missing as they only had the display model) and received generous discounts. I am willing to live with that as I do not write with the box. Getting a limited edition Shaeffer Balance for about £10 because a hinge on the fancy wooden display box was broken was fantastic but I know a specialist pen shop would probably have tried to find some way of getting me to pay close to top dollar regardless. When it comes to knowingly giving a customer the display model (a computer retailer tried that on me once) as a brand new item is unethical.
@@nickturner2813 I am so sorry that I upset your tender sensibilities and wish to offer my heartfelt apologies. In my defence, and unlike you, I have daily sex...sorry. that should read dyslexia. I will try to do better in future. Best regards, Someone who really gives a damn.
Yep, the M Nib on my new Carene stinks! Dry starts, very small sweet spot... I'll have to send it back to Waterman for service. But I'm skeptical of just how durable that nib even is. I want to love this beautiful looking pen, but it is just not reliable and enjoyable to use. Really disappointed...
@@InkquiringMinds Which one to you writes better? Most smooth? Although it's subjective I know because we all have our own preference when it comes to tooth.
@@InkquiringMinds I figured so because you keep the Pilot within fingers grasp on your desk and I haven't heard you say that about the Carene haha I'd probably get the Pilot and maybe some day get the Carene on sale. The Amber is probably the better looking of them all though I will say that much.
Wow that's an incredible amount of preventable suffering and pain on your part. I love those pens but how much joy or satisfaction is left. The loose cap band might just be the proverbial straw.... Premium products demand premium point of sale service. What would make you happy now? A new pen with a full refund as an appropriate form of redress? Through Amazon a medium nib Carene marine amber, Gold accents Australian dollars -$337.81 - worth it or not?
@@InkquiringMinds Especially these days with hard times on the horizon and the R word(RECESSION) starting to be bandied about. Courageous but fully justified criticism on your part. Well said.
Don't fix it yourself; you'd be letting them off the hook. I'd hold their feet to the fire. It's not like you don't have another Carene to use. Let them earn their reputation (one way or the other).
Too late. I didn't want to wait another half a year for a replacement or a repair. I fixed it myself. If I didn't say this publicly, they probably would never know the pen was repaired! LOL
Ah, the joy of dealing with a manufacturer of plastic rubbish bins... You'd think they'd try to retain customers... Glad you got a pen you like, despite the hassle. Really stunned you were sent a pen so obviously used, at first. Oh, well, despite the highway robbery of DHL, you finally got satisfaction of sorts. When I get paper (Clairefontaine Triomphe) from Amazon (best price I've found) it comes from Europe via DHL. Kind of surprised they don't try the same game with Amazon. Personally, I'm generally unimpressed with most shipping companies, from personal experience. USPS? Local distribution centre has "lost" things for months. Pre pandemic... UPS has a 50% success rate of delivery to my address. FedEx has left big packages out in the yard in the rain (there was electronics involved.) Amazon has a ⅓ chance of following delivery instructions, so I regularly get things stolen. You start to feel it's because you don't have any other, better alternative... Rant over. Glad you finally got it and like it.
Even thought the pen writes beautifully, going through the experience you went through and with the pen falling apart, it will just leave a sour taste in my mouth every time I will use the pen.
Considering the economic climate you'd think both companies would be ensuring quality above and beyond expectations. There's a saying business, "Once you lose a customer, it's nearly impossible to get them back".
That's why I buy only Japanese pens now except for the occasional cheaper brands that won't raise my angst too much if they aren't up to snuff. Thanks for sharing.
I had the same nib problem with Appelboom! When I wrote to them, they explained the situation. But no information until then. I told them that they should let the customer know up front. Apparently that hasn't changed.
Yipe! The cap ring thing is absolutely unacceptable!
Thanks Jason! 100% agree.
Waterman and Parker were bought by Newelll Rubbermaid in 2001, and their quality took a sharp turn south when it happened. For awhile they weren't even selling their pens with anything other than a medium nib, but perhaps that was only for the budget varieties. I have only had one pen serviced by a manufacturer (only one that needed it) since I have been in the hobby, and that was my raden vanishing point. Bought in 2011, and in 2017 the door stopped sealing, causing the nib to dry out. Namiki had me ship it to them at my cost, they replaced the internals and shipped it back for free. Did not accuse me of mishandling the pen, although when I asked what the cause was (to prevent it with this and my other VPs), their explanation of what usually causes the issue I was seeing led me to conclude that the damage was indeed my fault. From the day it was sent out to when it came back was about two months, IIRC.
That kind of customer service from Pilot make you a loyal customer for life. If only companies would recognize that!
Paying more, one would expect and appreciate the higher quality in service and craftsmanship. The dent on the nib that is the wrong size, the unusual outer packaging and the lack of a cartridge convertor. These three areas would most certainly agitate my inner-self. Let alone the six months, half a year waiting period, only to find out it's the wrong sized nib! Certainly inkquiring 😏
Although I acknowledge your perception of yourself being lucky, even if it did write well, I would not keep it. Just because of the service and the craftsmanship itself. I would feel betrayed, disrespected, not appreciated. I don't care if Queen Elizabeth created a pen company and that is the service they provide. I'm giving my hard earned income to a company, I would rather give it to another that appreciate value and quality service.
Excellent! Well said, Mr Safology!
I have never personally touched (even seen) the Waterman Carene fountain pen, so I was particularly interested in your review. As always, your thorough, entertaining review was excellent. My budget does not permit a decision to buy one, so I will enjoy your usage! In truth, I probably would not choose to buy one if I could justify the expenditure. Your rant convinced me that I would not find the QC to be what I expect for such a pen. I LOVE GOLDSPOT PENS!
Thanks Keith!
So sorry to hear of your troubles, Doug. I don’t know about the Netherlands, but certainly here in the U.K. the retailer is entirely responsible for changing the pen, as you’ve bought from the retailer and not the manufacturer.
(Also the pen would fail at the “merchantable quality” test - pens at that (or any other) price point should not have the cap rings falling off!).
(And I’m pretty sure we’re talking about European consumer law, and not just U.K. It always surprises me what a raw deal consumers get in the USA and Canada.)
Thank you for another 1st rate video, Mr Sir Professor Lord Rathbun of Rathbunshire.
My pleasure!!
Beautiful pen, Doug. Thank you for another honest review. I feel your pain. I get slobbering mad at these pen companies when issues like yours occur, which seems to be happening more frequently. I’ve had to deal with similar problems on pens I paid in excess of $200. In my opinion, if a company charges more than $10 for a pen, it should be perfect! When I tell my non-fountain pen friends that I’ve paid more than $10 for a pen…a pen, they freak out and I am embarrassed. I avoid the whole price discussion. Imagine when that same pen has flaws that are NEVER found in a 30 cent BIC ballpoint! Arrrrrgh! I had a Carene on my radar but I think I’ll pass now. :(
Thank you so much, Jeff!
Jeff I always crack up at those conversations too. Most of my friends now know in at least some vague way that I collect fountain pens as a hobby, but in general I avoid the discussion of price. My wife knows, and similar to the cost of equipment for my day job (DJ and media production), we just let her pretend to not know how much things cost🤣
I have a Waterman Deluxe Black and Silver Carene bought from Harrods in London in 1999. It comes with a lifetime international guarantee. So much for progress.
I feel like this is the way of the world now. At the risk of being cynical, the whole "you must have broken it yourself" just doesn't surprise me at all. I also had a similar experience with Appelboom - my first order ever from them included a TWSBI pen, the new Edelstein ink of the year, and a couple of other items. Aside from the fact that the packaging in no way resembled the beautiful packing job you've displayed on your channel more than once (I believe my order was relayed through one of their US retail stores then just put in a USPS box), the Edelstein ink showed as available on their website but then was out of stock and held up the order for several weeks. Magically, the day I reached out to cancel the order,I was informed that the entire order was en route to their Boston store. In the end, the products all arrived, but the availability on the website vs product delay was a big turn-off.
Hmmm. I wonder why Boston doesn't do the gift wrapping. I guess Appelboom will have to clone Anabelle.
Well I cannot believe the struggle to get this and considering its release date was so long ago. I would understand if this was release day and there was no accurate way of getting more stock in within a couple months but this has been a long time coming. Fact I would say, your review of your first Carene was what I feel you lured me onto your Channel. And a quick and decisive overview of the original you stated you had received the original was beautiful it was well-designed was well-balanced and it wrote like butter. This is probably one of the first reviews that really ignited me into the fountain pen world in recent years. A funny take would be the stub nib is ultra rare as the nature of the nib you will recieve is somewhat a lottery at this point. However the joke ends there as the price point is simply outrageous.
Thanks for this Matt!
The Amber is my favorite by far, looks really really nice. Great video once again Mr. D.R.
Mine too!
I feel your pain. While disappointed in Waterman for their QC, I am more disappointed in Appelboom. They are a smaller outfit and have a reputation for great customer service, as you have said before, and I personally have experienced. Waterman could care less about customers- if they lose one someone else will fill the gap. On top of all that, you have promoted Joost on your channel many times; unfortunate that they let you down.
As someone else said here, the distasteful experience detracts from the pen and for me using the pen gives one PTSD ( Pen Tragedy Stress Disorder)
Thank you so much, MrCabimero!
Love the rant ❤. The pen is beautiful but I won’t buy it after seeing this video and Stephen Brown’s where he said his pen leaked. Yikes! The nib looks like the Star Trek Federation logo and I liked it for that reason. There are too many other magnificent pens with flawless reputations or stellar customer service for my money. If Waterman had treated you better, that might have changed my mind.
I promised to pick someone up at the airport later with thunderstorms and roasting hot temperatures in the forecast (on top of the normally unbearable traffic). So this brilliant 23:51-second video is surely the highlight of my day.
Thank you William. That is much appreciated!
And after all that the thing fell apart? Dang. Kudos to you for enjoying it anyway, rather than stomping on it. It is mighty pretty, up there in E95s territory.
I have had a few Waterman pens. My only concern is that all of them wrote wider than expected, much like Pelikan pens. But, the model is beautiful and the nib is stunning. I wonder if an EF is available.
Great video, as always.
Thanks for sharing!
Thank you, that explains so much as to why Waterman isnt the right brand for me personally.
That’s a horrible experience, Doug. Now I’ve got to check the cap ring on mine. I hope Joost has a “nice” conversation with the staff member(s) who mishandled your order.
Really appreciate the direct, honest, comprehensive comments!!! Appreciate your reviews Doug!!
Thanks Michael!
Very unfortunate to hear the pratfalls of this beautiful pen. I have 2, a green, which was a floor model and a brown from an auction. The floor model writes crappy and I bought it a long time ago, way before I was made aware that nibs can be adjusted. Another problem with the floor model was the alignment of the nib and barrel end - it didn't line up as advertised. Being a floor model, a repair was out of the question. I looked at an online video that showed how to make the adjustment and I'm here to tell you and all interested parties, do not attempt anything you see in those repair videos! I found out that the grip section screws into a plastic sleeve in the barrel and by accident or happenstance, it slid out, albeit with considerable force. Then you just align the grip and plastic sleeve with the finial and gently slide it back it.
I love the way your broad writes.
Wow! I was considering a second Waterman. I bought my first Carene shortly after your first review. Now I don't think I will buy another. It seems Waterman is now failing on 2 fronts, quality & service! 😞 Thanks for the review!
Thanks, BC7Bill!
I'm with you on love for the Carene - if anyone were cruel enough to force me to pick one pen only to keep, it would definitely be that one. That being said, it sounds like Applebaum really screwed you on this purchase in multiple ways - from sending you a damaged/used pen (which was probably already voided from Waterman's end before they shipped it) to dishonesty/carelessness about nib sizes costing you extra in shipping. It's good to know about these experiences for those of us who are looking for the best place for high value pen purchases. I'm surprised you were as patient as you were during the "rant" section!
They are beautiful pens indeed, though a tad heavy, slim and slippery for me for longer writing sessions. I ended up selling mine because it leaked ink through the nib and because of the frequent misalignment between the nib and the pen end tip, chamfered profile. Nice review by the way.
Thank you so much, KHK!
Isn’t it interesting how some “plastics” probably were touted in their earliest days as this incredible new material? Precious resin: well, that has to be the material of the elite. No, not until we put a snowflake logo on top. Then, a quite ordinary pen with a good to great nib becomes a legend. In the end, it is all about the logo. Reminds me of the days when every suburban family had a Lincoln SUV on steroids.:) Ford also made the same vehicle in the same factory (it had a little more insulation, some very few bells & whistles). Ford sold the Lincoln in an upscale Lincoln dealership for $14,000 more than the nearly identical vehicle (just different logos & some trimmings). By the way, Ford made over $14,000 on each of those vehicles, each getting about 8 miles/gallon in short-hall driving, which suburban moms did almost exclusively. Somehow most men I knew thought it was safer for their wife and children than the Ford. (It was not.) It was the biggest money-maker for Ford in the period. When gas skyrocketed (combined with other economic issues), Ford/Lincoln lost big time. My point, one American business understands, is that brand names used to mean “guarantee of quality,” but it soon morphed into “BUY ME, YOU RICH FOOLS.” :). Yes, I have been stupid too…just not about cars. 😊
Really like your videos ! They are funny and very useful . Thanks !
Thank you so much, claudia!
Thank you, Doug. As the video began I was cursing you for fueling my PAD, but your rant at the end spared me.. ‘Tis a beautiful pen though.
Glad you enjoyed it! Thanks, William!
Oh dear. It's gorgeous & I was tempted - until I wasn't...
I Have one in a beautful brown, absolutely amazing writer. I think its the one you call marine amber, just rich colour.
Completely unacceptable as you said, at first I thought that if that happened to me I would've just returned the pen for a refund I don't think I could even like the pen after all that but then I remembered how much you've already paid in shipping fees and oof... Very tough decision indeed.
I'd probably still return it just because I'd be so angry at Waterman and I don't want them to have my money haha but I really hope you can fix it or that either Waterman or Appleboom sees this and make it right.
It is fixed and writing nicely. Thanks for this.
Another great review Doug. Considering the issues and time waiting for your pen then being accused of damaging said pen, your rant was actually very mild (thought I was gonna see some R-rated clips here😂). The pen though is stunning with the inlaid nib. The weight of the pen is surprising considering it is a metal pen. Hopefully Waterman sends you a discount code/coupon or a bottle (or 2) of ink for the issues you had when trying to acquire this pen. Also, congratulations on becoming an affiliate for Goldspot Pens. Again, great review and Happy Writing!
Thank you so much, Juan!
I got angry at Appelboom for the very same reason. I bought a Furore for my better half and wanted a specific gold nib. It was listed as a stocked item, but was not in stock. This delayed the order much more than I was happy with.
.... other than that, how did you like the play Mrs. Lincoln?
LMAO!
A tip for you from a fellow Canadian, if you don’t mind doing the legwork you can self clear packages at your local CBSA office. Also warranty replacements should not be subject to duty and thus not be subject to brokerage. Your replacement was not declared properly and you can bug the retailer for a refund on the shipping and brokerage if you so desire though if they refuse to pay I don’t think the $50 is worth going to small claims court over unless you just want to stick it to them.
As a Christmas gift, I received a Waterman Carene in L'Essence du Bleu (M) and it looks and writes beautifully! Honestly, I wish all fountain pens wrote as nicely as this Carene! It's a treasure and I am in debt to my wonderful wife for this wonderful instrument. Great video and even better rant! (I have another Carene in amber and the ring came off as yours did but my pen suffered a bit of minor cosmetic damage in the process of reattaching it. It works fine and the damage is barely noticeable, but still...why must surgery be performed for a problem that appears to be endemic among such otherwise fine pens? *sigh*) Again, great video and thanks!
Congrats! Excellent fountain pen!
This is my first Waterman order and only second from Appelboom. I should have the Carene L'Essence de Bleu on Wednesday. I took about two weeks for the broad nib to be shipped. I'll be on the lookout after watching this video.
Appreciate the back story, and hope you'll still be able to enjoy that beautiful pen! Cheers!
I hope so too!
Highly entertaining and informative! Thank you for your videos and also this one. I have loved it.
And I have a Carène on the way, I am excited!
Wonderful! Congrats!
Beautiful pen! So glad your writing gambol turned out great! Love inlaid nibs on special pens!!
It is writing beautifully now. Thanks Kevin!
Came for the review. Stayed for the Faulty Towers clips.
LOL
Thank you for telling your very frustrating backstory!! I currently have an order pending from the same company since December. Was sent two incorrect (incorrect pens altogether-not just nib size) items, one clearly damaged and the other clearly used complete with ink stains on the barrel. Zero communication unless I initiate it, and the correct items have yet to be delivered. Very much appreciate your review!!!
Thanks for this. Frustrating indeed. Just a note that Appelboom tests the nibs before they go out and will therefore have some water/ink residue in the pen when shipped.
When you say company you mean Appelboom?
@@nitin6616 Yes.
Congratulations! great purchase. I prefer the "Exception" model. Thanks for this review.
Thanks for watching!
I, too, have both the Waterman Carene Black Sea and Marine Amber (which is particularly beautiful). Both have fine nibs.
I thought about getting a fine and medium nib, but the Waterman F seems just wide enough for me... and I hate the blotting and feathering of slightly wider nibs on the poorer paper I sometimes have to write on.
These are lovely pens. I don't have much of a collection and the pens I do have are middling price points (Cross Apogee and Townsend Medallist, a Parker Sonnet and a few cheap Pilots) but I enjoy all of them.
Thanks for the review and sorry for the frustrations. One thing I do find is that the end finial does NOT line up with the nib on either of my two Carenes. That DOES upset and offend my OCD-side, I admit.
That finial line-up issue can be fixed. I've seen a video where the entire section is taken apart and adjusted. Not for the faint of heart!
@Inkquiring Minds Oh dear... sounds scary. But the OCD part of me says Go for it (!)
What a shame things went south like they did. I can't blame you feeling thoroughly disenchanted at the service you received from Appelboom and Waterman this time round. Let's hope both of them get the message that they can and should do better. Yes, they're probably both out of whack because of the Pandemic but, still they know better. The Carène looks all that but, quality control issues at this price point would make me cautious.
Thank you BigHenFor. That is much appreciated!
I had problems with Appelboom. Never again! No need to deal with an attitude when there are so many retailers out there.
I'm perplexed as to why my comment was removed so I'll try again.
Wondering if the pen was sent from Europe or redirected to the Boston store they recently acquired, the former Bromfield Pen? I had a order that was repeatedly delayed, then sent with two pens and two absolutely unsecured bottles of ink in a very battered Appelboom box. I had very unedifying calls and correspondence with both the Boston manger and Joost. I shan't be purchasing from Appelboom again.
I have the tracking and am positive they came from Laaren.
@@InkquiringMinds I'm so sorry. What an utterly avoidable boondoggle.
Same here. Appelboom USA and Netherlands suck. I placed an order by phone on Black Friday at the USA store and the man answering the phone said he would call me when the pens arrived from the Netherlands. I’m still waiting on that call. They are horrible.
Very interesting. My Parker 51(2021 version) that I bought last February last year also had the cap ring separate from the cap. It appears that the two sister companies owned by Newell are either deliberately not using enough glue or their quality control of the glue process is very bad. (I fixed that one myself too. )😀😀😀
It loses a bit of its cache when you say it is a pen made by Rubbermaid! LOL
@@InkquiringMinds yes but Rubbermaid products used to be known for their quality. All these companies used to be known for their quality.
@@nancymilawski1048 You can't get good people for $3/hr anymore!
Hope you’ll get the Deluxe GT model too which is my favorite of all Carenes..
Interestingly, many ‘Gun metal Silver Trim’ versions are available in Amazon (in addition to Amber, Black Sea and Deluxe )
I'll have to see one come up with some deep discounts first!
I hate Karens as much as anyone, but considering how much these cost I kind of expect them to get it right the first time, period. I think you were as patient and generous as only a Canadian or a midwesterner would be. It’s a beautiful pen, but it makes one think twice about wanting one when you hear a horror story like this one. After all, for that kind of money there are a lot of pretty pens out there to select from.
True!
I’d love to see a review of the expert with the pvd coated nib. I’ve never heard of such a thing until I just saw it on Amazon, and I’m curious how that affects performance.
Love the anttics.
Doug,sorry to hear that you were treated in such a shabby fashion. You are more tolerant than I.
Hope your repair work goes well. I don't work on pens. Or guitars. I let the pros do that kind of stuff. Not that I haven't tried(and failed).
It costs a lot but,in my case,it's worth it.
Love me some "precious resine" pens. 😄 It ain't 20,000 layers of urushi over fossilized narwhal tusk. But you wouldn't know it from the price.
Thank you Michael. That is much appreciated!
Wow, I am shocked at the pen almost self destructing during the review! I have the Black Sea rhodium and it’s been very sturdy over the past 5 years or so. I’m glad that you report it dries quickly as I thought mine was damaged by someone helping themselves to it once ( 😡 )
Anyway I’m looking for a calligraphy nib for mine. Is it the stub that I need? Excuse my ignorance - I’ve not done any calligraphy for 40 years and I just want to revisit it before I die. Your advice and recommendations would be welcome and appreciated. 😊
A "calligraphy" nib can mean three different things. 1) a flexible nib where the line gets thicker with more pressure 2) a stub (italic) nib where the horizontal line is thin and the vertical line is thick with no pressure, and 3) an architect nib where the vertical line is thing and horizontal line is thick with no pressure. There might be a sub/italic nib out there for the Carene, but I know I waited months and months for Waterman to deliver but got tired of waiting. You could get a BROAD nib and have a nibmeister cut it into an architect - that would work.
Hey 👋🏼 thanks for the information my friend. I forgot to say that I also share your love for guitars and I have a surf green strat with roasted maple neck. I have a 100w fender champion that’s never been turned up above 3 because I live in a block of apartments and I have too much respect for my neighbours. 😂
When you say about using the pen posted - two things… I never knew the technical expression, so thanks, and secondly, I actually write both ways but more often unposted.
Does this make me a bad person? Am I going to handwriting hell?
Anyway, again, thank you for your help. I have lost the box so may need to locate one on eBay or something.
@@andeegreenAwesome! Posted or unposted is a personal preference. Many people dislike writing with a pen posted. For others, it is a convenience so you don't lose the cap. For me, some pens I post, others I don't - it all depends on the pen. For example, a Parker 51 just WANTS to be posted! Cheers!
lovely pen , nice to know it comes in broad (large, in french) . Thank you for sharing.
Thank you too!
You had just done the reverse writing test. That's why the nib dried up. Sometimes they also dry up after doing the line variation test
Yeah and I had just filled it. It is a gusher now.
Had the same problem with cap ring.
Good gravy Marie, Doug! You've had multiple trips through hell with that pen. For the price they could have at least put you on the express plane 😔
You got that right!
Thanks for another great video. It reminded me I have 2 weeks left of a limited time offer from waterman or Parker for any current catalogue pen 50 % off due to an issue with a previous pen. Are there any other waterman or Parker pens you highly recommend?
No current production Parker. And I’ve only ever had a Carene and a Phileas.
@@InkquiringMinds thanks that's what I was thinking. I also have the option of rotring items, since they don't make fountain pens anymore I may go for an isograph that I can use for artwork
I got my waterman carene deluxe black from amazon due to a huge discount, I got my pen with a sleeve and a blue box, and one free ink cartridge under the pen pillow, but there is no brochure or booklet. The end finial does not align with the nib of my pen which I felt it should. I ink my pen with waterman serenity blue, my first impression is that it writes similar to a ballpoint, you know that kind of greasy and sticky feeling when writing on paper? Still I consider I got a good deal for a carene. This pen dries too quickly, so as soon as I stop writing I need to cap it, this pen makes me appreciate Pelikan even more, none of my Pelikans dry quickly on any ink I used, ironically my cheap Jinhao 100 nib does not dry quickly too and writes really well....
Thanks for sharing, Yomin!
Hi Doug! Thanks for the review. Have you had any struggles with using a shimmer&sheening ink in the carene?
None. The broad nib is very wet and handles it well.
@@InkquiringMinds thank you! I appreciate your responsiveness and knowledge!
I’m looking at either a broad or the stub. Would love to hear your 2 cents on what to pick?
@@kevinlevandoski7117 I would go with a broad rather than the stub. I tried to order a stub and they are so rare, Waterman held my order for more than a month before I changed it so I could at least get the pen!
OMG. What is going on? It's like a Twilight Zone episode. I was here researching because I'm thinking of purchasing this pen, but now I have second thoughts. 😅
Don’t worry. The Carene is an awesome pen and Waterman has one of the best customer services in the business. Don’t forget to register to get their extended warranty and their free nib exchange if you need it!
I bought one AT ONCE on Amazon!
At that price point, I would feel I got reamed, with no lube and no kiss. I'm not sure I'd consider the extended warranty a bonus, since the initial warranty didn't seem to be ethically honored without an exorbitant amount of trouble. It's like those supplement ads that say "If it doesn't work, we'll send you a second thirty-day supply for free!" I'm so sorry this occasion which should have been filled with joyous excitement was so tainted. As another commenter said, I'm not sure I'd ever be able to pick the pen up again and enjoy it without being reminded of the disappointments to mar the experience.
I feel for ya, buddy.
To be fair to Waterman, it was Appelboom that said Waterman wouldn't honor the warranty. I didn't hear that from Waterman. So, perhaps it was Waterman not honoring the replacement of a damaged pen to one of their retailers - not a customer? I dunno.
Good on you for calling them out. No bueno! Just be happy it wasn’t a Waterman Edson. Imagine how pissed you’d be then! ;-)
I would just like to TRY an Edson!
@@InkquiringMinds Me too. I’ve drooled over them at pen shows, but I haven’t paid off my first mortgage yet.
@@georgeparapadakis I've never seen one in the wild.
I've had inks that contain particles in them plug a fountain pen: I won't use them any more.
Usually, the broader/wetter pens can handle it. Fine pens, not so much.
I have in the past picked up some pretty decent pens from non-specialist pen shops where there was a bit of damage to the packaging (or the original box was missing as they only had the display model) and received generous discounts. I am willing to live with that as I do not write with the box. Getting a limited edition Shaeffer Balance for about £10 because a hinge on the fancy wooden display box was broken was fantastic but I know a specialist pen shop would probably have tried to find some way of getting me to pay close to top dollar regardless. When it comes to knowingly giving a customer the display model (a computer retailer tried that on me once) as a brand new item is unethical.
Excellent! Well said, Konrad!
Next time buy a Sheaffer, not a "Shaeffer", whatever that is!
@@nickturner2813 Let's chalk it up to a typo.
@@nickturner2813 I am so sorry that I upset your tender sensibilities and wish to offer my heartfelt apologies. In my defence, and unlike you, I have daily sex...sorry. that should read dyslexia. I will try to do better in future. Best regards, Someone who really gives a damn.
Yep, the M Nib on my new Carene stinks! Dry starts, very small sweet spot... I'll have to send it back to Waterman for service. But I'm skeptical of just how durable that nib even is. I want to love this beautiful looking pen, but it is just not reliable and enjoyable to use. Really disappointed...
That's too bad. Both my Carene nibs are beautiful.
This or the Pilot E95S? lol The Marine Amber Carene looks the best out of any of them though I will say.
The e95s is VERY lightweight in contrast to the Carene, but they are both beautifully balanced and feel exquisite in the hand!
@@InkquiringMinds Which one to you writes better? Most smooth? Although it's subjective I know because we all have our own preference when it comes to tooth.
@@williamcatalano1762 The nod has to go to the Pilot!
@@InkquiringMinds I figured so because you keep the Pilot within fingers grasp on your desk and I haven't heard you say that about the Carene haha I'd probably get the Pilot and maybe some day get the Carene on sale. The Amber is probably the better looking of them all though I will say that much.
OFF WITH THEIR HEAD !!! I'd be so mad , and disappointed .. and for that price you should have gotten a perfect pen
Yikes, both Appelboom and Waterman failed.
$280 AUD sound better?
Much
What say Appelboom?
I’m not engaging on this one. The pen is fine now.
Really disappointing experience all round there. I hope it doesn't leave a bitter taste in the mouth whenever you use the beautiful pen.
I hope so too!
Wow that's an incredible amount of preventable suffering and pain on your part. I love those pens but how much joy or satisfaction is left. The loose cap band might just be the proverbial straw.... Premium products demand premium point of sale service. What would make you happy now? A new pen with a full refund as an appropriate form of redress? Through Amazon a medium nib Carene marine amber, Gold accents Australian dollars -$337.81 - worth it or not?
That’s pretty steep. I paid $238 Cdn for this one and it is still more expensive than my Marine Amber from Amazon.
@@InkquiringMinds Especially these days with hard times on the horizon and the R word(RECESSION) starting to be bandied about. Courageous but fully justified criticism on your part. Well said.
Don't fix it yourself; you'd be letting them off the hook. I'd hold their feet to the fire. It's not like you don't have another Carene to use. Let them earn their reputation (one way or the other).
Too late. I didn't want to wait another half a year for a replacement or a repair. I fixed it myself. If I didn't say this publicly, they probably would never know the pen was repaired! LOL
They slow-walked you to a purchase of a bullshit pen.
Ah, the joy of dealing with a manufacturer of plastic rubbish bins... You'd think they'd try to retain customers...
Glad you got a pen you like, despite the hassle. Really stunned you were sent a pen so obviously used, at first.
Oh, well, despite the highway robbery of DHL, you finally got satisfaction of sorts.
When I get paper (Clairefontaine Triomphe) from Amazon (best price I've found) it comes from Europe via DHL. Kind of surprised they don't try the same game with Amazon. Personally, I'm generally unimpressed with most shipping companies, from personal experience. USPS? Local distribution centre has "lost" things for months. Pre pandemic... UPS has a 50% success rate of delivery to my address. FedEx has left big packages out in the yard in the rain (there was electronics involved.)
Amazon has a ⅓ chance of following delivery instructions, so I regularly get things stolen.
You start to feel it's because you don't have any other, better alternative...
Rant over.
Glad you finally got it and like it.
Just can't get good people for $3/hr anymore!
@@InkquiringMinds You're more likely to get better service from a manufacturer of a $3 pen. 😁
@@paulherman5822 Yeah, right, try it and report on the result!