The Fake Mormon Race Apology w/ Jon Streeter [Mormonism Live 188]
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- Опубліковано 9 лип 2024
- We sit down with Jon Streeter to revisit his Mormon "Race Apology" in 2018. The apology had the appearance of being officially from the Church even though it wasn't and Streeter took a lot of criticism for the fake apology. Now 6 years later Streeter sits down to explain his thoughts both then and now and to discuss various aspects of the project and its aftermath
Streeter's Fake Apology -
thoughtsonthingsandstuff.com/...
Video of AI (not real) President Nelson giving Streeter's "Fake Apology" - • AI Generated Rendition...
Streeter's Apology for the fake Apology - thoughtsonthingsandstuff.com/...
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Such a great show! I have always wanted to hear the full story. Thank you Jonathan Streeter, for a heartfelt apology, you set a great example for Church leaders.
I am a recovering Mormon and Jonathan Streeter is my favorite post Mormon podcast content creator. He is gentle in his approach, and it breaks my heart to see how his fake race apology letter was misinterpreted by the still faithful members of the church. However Jonathan could see how his fake letter hurt people and he feels bad about it, and has tried to do the right thing by apologizing. I love your work Jonathan. You have helped me a ton. Thanks RFM, Bill, and Jonathan. You’re all amazing.
Seems like a lot of the negative reactions to it were from people who are angry at the church but taking it out on Johnathan.
The still-Mormons prove they are incredibly dumb.
I too have so much respect and appreciation for Jonathan. After learning about this whole situation my respect for him has grown even more. I’m not black but the priesthood ban was the first shelf item and made me sick when I learned about it. That policy/doctrine hurt so many
I hear it differently now, 6 years later. Then, I was deeply moved and so grateful. In tears, it was what I wanted since my childhood. I did not know it was fake till the next day. I was not embarrassed to find out, just very sad that the church had not issued a real one. I waited for a the church statement that didn’t come. Now I think it would be implausible that the church would write anything that comprehensive, well written and kind. So today I would probably say, I wish it were real, and still sob.
I had a similar experience…
Honestly, if that letter was real, and that attitude permeated the church… maybe I’d still be going. Lol
Right? I’d want to belong to an organization like that!
Streeter's fake apology was so good, so perfect, that my 1st response was that it took my breath away. And the 2nd response, about 1 second later, was the thought, "No way!" The "no way" response is what made me dig deeper. I KNOW this church and its leaders. For the TBM's, they dont have the "too good to be true" cynicism it takes to realize that the church leaders just aren't this good.
Excellent video! I’m post Mormon now but Zandra and her family were in my ward for a few years. I was PIMO but still serving as a young men’s advisor. Her brother was was a great kid, and we had a good group of young men and leaders during that time.
Zandra was such a warm and funny person. She and her husband would always end their testimonies, whenever they shared them, with “God is Love” and my wife and I always appreciated that.
It broke my heart in this video when she shared the bit about the excuse of “it’s in Gods timing” and how that is really a terrible answer for what the church/ BOM/ doctrine teaches in regards to the racism. She’s absolutely right
Impactful episode. Will take time to consider all the nuance and different perspectives. I’m sorry that this letter caused pain amongst those already suffering and traumatized by the church’s official actions. That said, I support JS in creating this. I have loved his content and have found it SO impactful in my deconstruction. Thank you.
My guess is that if it was made more obvious that is was satire, it would not have had even close to the same impact.
The fake apology just made the churches failure so apparent and vivid that it hurt them deeply. Ultimately the church is responsible for the hurt and pain.
@@Rcplanecrasher the assumption in the episode that if it was labeled as satire it would have still had an impact has no basis in reality. It was only viral because of the belief it was real. And the church is 100% to blame for the aftermath, not Streeter.
@@MattShu123 looks like we agree completely.
As an old white exmo I love hearing and learning from people of color and their individual perspectives and stories. Much respect to every host, guest, and video clip person contributing such timely content. 👏
You three cool exmo dudes make The Three Nephites look like The The Three Stooges🤣
For sure. Who’s on first?
It seems like they are not serious about facing the race issue.
If a perfect God was in charge of a Church, this is the exact letter that would be revealed. Alas, if God has been actively involved in the dealings of humans, it is obvious that isn’t with this so called church. Thanks you so much for your honesty and courage!
It isnt
It isn’t with this so called church
To call Streeter racist over this brilliant piece of activism is mistaken to me. The reason members of color of the church were hurt by this is not because it existed, but because the church did not actually apologize. It is just further proof that they deeply NEED an apology from the church. It is proof of the kind of healing that could happen if they would let go of their egos, and simply apologize. Activism is often bold and sometimes ugly in order to make a statement. I think many of us wish we could apologize for being part of the system that was so racist (and have; reparations are important to me and I try to financially empower the black community). But it is also complicated because while inside it, we never knew we were a part of that system, and we were also brainwashed. To me, this was a poignant way to bring attention to an issue that has never been resolved for so many of us. It is a way to give an apology while acknowledging the church leadership is the one who REALLY needs to. AND. The feeling of those offended by this activism are absolutely valid. It could be argued that a true activist would not create a re-traumatizing situation for black members and ex-members of the church. I believe that both things are true. It is a complicated and nuanced situation. But it did start an essential conversation that I believe led good members to escape their abusive organization, and demanded more accountability of 15 powerful white men at the head of an extremely wealthy organization. I never viewed this as parody or a joke. I don’t think it should have been a parody or joke. Racism is not a joke. And this activism never would’ve had the impact that it had if it had been treated like a joke. The church carries the responsibility to give a real, sincere apology. Healing will not happen without it.
Jon, thank you for sharing your experience. It was eye opening, and the human damage and the new insights made sense to me. I can't imagine how many times that I have said to someone who has taken offense to something I have said and I reply, "I was only joking!" and the person replied, " Joke or not, what you said was offensive to me!!"
Any way, my friend, I have missed your podcasts. They often have gravitas. By the way, I adopted a baby in Mexico 46 years and three days ago. Now, most of my small family is brown. So I know a bit about racism. My grand children are part Mexican and Navajo. I never want to see them white and delightsome. They're just fine brown and delightsome. Take care, Jon, my respected friend.
By that logic, no one needs to apologize to the Elders for anything at anytime.
The amount of ego on display is staggering.
This was almost as good as the Monkeys In Boxes episode. Great job!!
A must see. I had to watch it in several segments to unpack the information. Keep bringing forth the hard truths.
I listened to this on your podcast. Powerful. I am 65 and was raised in the COJCOLS, racism was normal. The curse of Cane taught. There was not an adult in my life who didn’t ingrain in me how incredibly awful dark skin was. I left the church in my mid twenties, none of it resonated with me. I have spent the last 40 years reprogramming my brain. I am sorry this occurred and am glad Streetor is accountable and willing to hear the damage he caused. Now, if only the men at the helm of the church could see the power in honest accountability.
As a Hispanic PIMO, I saw this apology as something aspirational and needs to be done. I knew it was a parody from the start. The underlying cause of the Church not being able to apologize the "True Church" doctrine, which makes tribalism kick in and make the people in the organization always try to live up (and outwardly show) to the impossible idea that this is God's "only true faith".
I found this letter a few months ago. Because of the date on the video and the fact that I, a Utah Mormon, hasn't heard it, I knew it was a hoax immediately. But I listened with rapt attention, feeling that it was exactly what the church SHOULD have said.
I like Streeter's stuff. It's very thoughtful. I did notice that he seemed to be hesitant to give a direct apology for the pain that he caused and refers to his written apology. He used terms like "It was not clear enough..." Or "the way the letter was written", rather than "I wasn't clear enough" or "I wrote the letter..." I have mixed feelings about it. Good hell! The church should have said all that stuff! So the church itself is too blame for the pain. But also, the author didn't have the foresight to see how it would re-traumatize the Black people. (TBH, I would not have had that foresight either!)
Edit: His written apology does take personal responsibility. It was just the way he spoke about the apology that seemed detached.
great show gentlemen. It is impossible to walk in someone else's shoes, intentions do matter, no one lives a perfect life.
The receding hairline works just fine. Is pretty realistic likeness of RFM
I have enjoyed Streeters content for years!
This is for Bill. I don't find you to be "a miserable old Grinch." You smile plenty when you're on camera!
Where is RFM’s dog? I would imagine that he would have some fine specimen of small-ish yappy dog. White, or otherwise in color. That is my vision or am I somehow in error on this matter?
Thanks for a great show
I gave a sacrament meeting talk on “all of God’s children”, the year earlier about the church’s statement following the Muslim ban, as I was asked. I used the race essay and other church references about treating everyone fairly. The bishop was pretty mad.
The contrast is just so huge
I'm guessing Dapper Dandy was Kwaku trolling us.
A true work of art, Streeter. Bravo!
Let's unpack the trauma that some members experienced when they felt the Spirit as they read the fake apology. They were hurt because they felt betrayed by their emotions that at the time they interpreted as god speaking to them. Is it really that bad that they felt hurt? Is it really wrong for these members to learn that they can't trust their spiritual experiences to serve as the foundation from which to learn truth? Although it was uncomfortable, to me Streeter's fake apology provided an opportunity for members to learn in very important lesson about discerning what is true.
I am of African descent although not an American by birth. I left the church in 2018 after 20 years of membership, although not related to the priesthood and race issue. What is rather repugnant to me was the idea of "a theory." The church claims to receive revelation from God. The priesthood ban was doctrine preached from the pulpit by the president of the church. Period. The essay was just nothing but PR fluff
This is all very frustrating bc the church is a fraud from day 1. All of this could’ve been avoided.
I feel like I’m a horrible closeted, white privileged person. Because Jonathan was not the source of the pain. He was the easy target. His being responsible about their personal emotional reaction shows his true spirit. He is more Godly than the Mormon leaders. These articulate women make me sad for them in so many ways.
Have the people who were kept out of heaven because of the ban had their temple work done?
apart from the content (!) this episode was tedious and hard to stick to it.
just my 2 cents
I agree. I love Streeter and his mind, but he is a freight train of monologue that takes no breaths.
It would have been optimal to hear more from Bill and RFM. At least have them read some of the stuff.
@@Rcplanecrasher yeah it was like he was giving his alternative church declaration while also explaining to the recipients why he had worded this very very long declaration this way. it made little sense and felt like a weird defense against the "cancel culture backlash" - that formulation alone gives me a solid headache 🙄
Satire and parody lack internal redemptive qualities. Given the topic and a known inability to control the online narrative after posing, it makes sense this wasn't well received. Despite intention, the apology is crushed by its own postmodern approach, which is a schtick that may have already ran its social course.
Lip Service is still a service. It is a necessary part of the repentance process. But offering Lip Service on its own just makes it a lie.
Also, waving an apology owed to you does not grant you the power to never owe one. What an infantile equivication.
Parody or not, fake means lie.
I guess that's true. But that means all fictional stories and movies are lies if you are going that direction.
The difference is that a lie is meant to deceive in order to gain something, usually power or secrecy. That’s power being abused. Parody and satire are meant to mock a target’s power and misuse thereof to get an audience to consider their point of view. It’s punching up.
Jonathan Swift was the most egregious of liars when he provided his modest proposal... huh never thought of it that way before.