To add to that, all it really would take is a redesign of the headstock. Or a device that is on the headstock to prevent the bend at the nut. Headstock should get a redesign still though.
To be honest, most guitar players (including myself) are extremely conservative and anything that deviates from the classic Les Paul look would be poorly received. To improve the tuning stability you have to change the headstock, which wouldn't be a popular change. Maybe some people at Gibson simply wish to do something else that churning out copies of a 60 year old design, but their customers won't let them.
I grew up with no money....i was a gibson fan because of GNR, but since they were so unreachable, had to learn with cheap ibanez guitars, time flew and i bought a better one, a better one and so on. Now i own two prestige ibanez and a couple of hi ends fenders because i grew up with those brands...if i had the chance when a was a kid to have access to the cheapest gibson, i would own 10k gibson today. So i am a living proof of one of the reasons why gibson went down.Too Elitist.
Same dude. I grew up and slash was my guy. But I ended up with the Ibanez rg, now my main is a vai jem because it’s an rg on steroids. I don’t even look at Gibson when I go to the shop
@@FernandoLobo Yeah man, especially when you have brands like D'angelico putting out incredible quality guitars in the $800 - $1.3k range. I'd rather have a Gretsch Electromatic, D'angelico Premier, and a Strat American Standard. All three of those guitars cost me $3k because I bought two on clearance, one used. $3k for what? A name on a headstock? No thanks..
I was the machinist Henry hired in early Nov 93 to program, setup, and run their Komo 4+4 CNC milling machine that arrived in late Nov 93. This machine made all the solid bodies Gibson offered from that point onwards. I can't remember the plant manager's name but I never answered to him anyway but he wasn't a luthier either and never understood my suggestions for improving the models Gibson offered. I used to work with an engineer named Matt who was a luthier and understood my concerns which we addressed privately. The blueprints we used were copies of the originals and for the most part we would recreate the same dimensions as the original blueprints. Gibson tried to make bodies that had balsa wood in a cavity under the maple tops. After a small run of these I objected against making anymore of these crappy designs. Then they tried to use Poplar wood and again I was against making these because I saw them crack overnight. They tried pocketing underneath along with lightning holes and it was making the guitars prone to warping or cracking. In my experience Gibson made some really great guitars and some really crappy ones. It all depended on the quality of the wood they used. The 1st 100th anniversary I built, hungover from partying with Johnny Neal the night before, was a Les Paul Special double cut on Saturday morning Jan 1st with Henry J, Matt, the plant manager, and myself. I was surprised they chose this model instead of a 57 Black Beauty or 59 Standard. It was made out of Poplar wood if I remember right because I remember thinking Henry was a cheap bastard for picking that wood over the mahogany. When it was completed 5 days later I got to sign it and it sat in a rotating display case through 94 at the employee entrance. I made bodies, fingerboards, necks, and cut inlay pockets for 100k plus guitars. Only a handful bear my signature, many have my initials either under the fingerboard on the neck or the neck pocket on the body. My original agreement was I would be allowed to build my own guitar my way out of materials of my choosing. I decided I wanted a Lucille made from 95% Birdseye Maple on the body and neck. Abalone inlays and binding with gold tuners and pickups and hardware. Upon finishing the guitar in an antique amber stain and several coats of clear, Henry said the guitar was too expensive for me to have. The guitar sat in my corner of the machining area for two months in its case wrapped in plastic. Then BB King showed up in early August and Henry gathered all the employees to the presentation of BB getting another Black Lucille. I brought the guitar I made and as BB was about to get up from the table to leave, I stepped forward from behind the crowd and told him the guitar I made was from the employees. When he opened it he had a huge smile on his face. What was Henry going to do? Tell BB King he couldn't have it? He played that guitar for two hours that night at Riverfront Park in Nashville and I attended that show as an ex-employee of Gibson. It was priceless when Henry told me I was fired and I said now you know what it's like to have something you wanted taken from you...I left August 94 after 9 months. My standards were higher than Gibsons and I've never regretted leaving.
_...Henry said the guitar was too expensive for me to have._ Because of course he did. I could get quite specific as to why that is, but I'll simply say that _he couldn't help himself._ He is *_The Man Who Saved Gibson, Only To Ruin It Again._* And I hope history is not one bit kind to him.
@@uoza92the company I worked at before Gibson had burned down 2 weeks before I started at Gibson. They bought another building and the machines were delivered a week after I left Gibson so I went to work for them again. I was the shop foreman for years until the owner died and I moved to Montana. I'm now retired from machining but I've continued building guitars and designing new models for myself and family.
I'm a little surprised that they didn't discuss Gibson's policy of the last 10 years or so, of requiring retailers to order something like $100,000 worth of inventory in order to be considered an "authorized Gibson dealer". This pretty much insured that the smaller shops could not afford to carry new Gibson guitars. I wonder if this practice hurt or helped Gibson over time?
Definitely hurt...shelf life on these Gibson’s are long. My Gibson 2017 Classic was $2000 when it came out in October 16 by August they were on sale for $1450 where I got one😬 plays great!!! No issues!!!
+J. J. Common practice doesn't mean good practice. It's used to force dealers into investing in stock, and therefore making a priority of trying to sell it.
@@ChaseSpec I've said it before, i'll say it again the whole "free market" idea is bull. It was destroyed back in the 40's and it's why the leaders after WWII began regulating things. The market can be, and will be manipulated to the benefit of the larger corps.
@@davidmiller9485 I'm not entirely sure what point you are trying to make here. Market manipulation is a "thing", but it's not at all relevant to what we were talking about. Companies can make products and price them however they want. It's then up to the market to decide if the cost is worth it. I'm not saying that 10k is a good price or a bad price. Just that it was one I was willing to pay for a particular guitar. Gibson is going broke just like other high-end companies like Harley Davidson. They refuse to accept that others are just better and you can't sell nostalgia forever.
Too many people with MBA's trying to make their mark in the business world with a quick uptick in the quarterly returns with no thoughts to long term strategy or profitability. We have been seeing this in every market as corporations take over boutique businesses.
Yes! Yes! Yes!!!! Even Warren Buffet said that the requirement for quarterly earnings is killing the longterm profitability of companies by putting so much attention on short term gains.
If the guy running Gibson isn't a lifelong player who interacts regularly with real working musicians and dreamers who love to play, they have no true leader.
People used to be able to "work their way up" through in-house company promotions. What MAJOR benefit did this have? THEY KNEW MANY MORE ASPECTS OF SAID BUSINESS!
Perhaps one of the reasons the guitar industry and culture in general is on its knees is the fact that everyone seems to have a wet dream about an era gone 60 years ago.. There appears to be very little space and acceptance for modern innovation that has the potential to make new classics. As relevant and trend-setting the late 50s and early 60s were, we are not in the 50s and 60s any more! Bear in mind that Jimi Hendrix and Jimmy Page didn't play vintage guitars, they played guitars that were new. Endless re-issues and circle jerks about the past are not helping. What about new materials? Construction techniques? We now know fairly conclusively the absolute majority of the guitar's sound is the pickups and the amp, so why not go berserk in exploring new things? It's potentially very exciting, and we're in the age of the biggest technological advances, but some people are killing the fun for no other reason other than wishing to re-live their youth - doctors and lawyers are not rock n' roll.
Watch Rick’s top ten Kickass Metal on Spotify. Sure he is a Les Paul guy, but he has, and plays just about everything. Methinks you are using hyperbole, inadvertently,l perhaps. 🤔
Many companies have tried composites over the years, Gibson included, and more often than not it simply comes down to long term maintenance and playability...guitars are made the way they are because they sound great and we've had a LONG time to figure out how to make them remain stable in their tuning and not fall apart due to age and chemical breakdown...technological advancements have already come a long way with amps, but the tactile nature of the guitar and its operation isn't likely to change anytime soon...also, Hendrix and Page played late 50's guitars in the late 60's rather than brand new guitars...
For what it's worth, I'm a lawyer and I heartily agree with your sentiment about manufacturers. In fact, what you're saying is sage advice regarding the production of ANY type of good-they must meet the nature of the demand as it is, not as they think it should be. It's lazy logic by Gibson in equating nostalgia w practical need. Thinking our love of Jimi or Jimmy's sound means a desire to have access to their exact same guitar when, as you pointed out, both were playing the best of what was available at that time and, similarly, today's musician wants the benefit of decades' hindsight in their hands. They should've been listening to customer feedback instead of dreamily staring at some old tour poster on the wall for inspiration.
Page and Hendrix didn't play "vintage" but they definitely went older guitars that weren't in production because they sounded good. People like page are the reason we have Les Paul standards built today. Gibson had already discontinued and moved on to the SG with no plans of bringing back the expensive to build unpopular standard. Basically most of the people you would name were playing the equivalent of pawn shop gems, not the new offerings so closer to vintage (a term that's come about in the last couple decades) than brand new
@ Oisin Wait until the auto-driving cars come out. The love to make more crap to put on stuff so they can justify a higher price. How about just make what we need and make it better?
but can't you turn the thing off for while you're playing? Why wouldn't they make it so it tuned only when you want it to. Just set the tuning you want maintained and have it adjusted when you press the button, boom, problem solved. Can't Gibson figure that out?
@Gumshon My 2015 SG has it and it works just like you said. You press a button and it's on, you press that button again and it's off. I don't know what that guy was doing quite honestly ahahah. Actually, playing stuff in so many different tunings like I do, it has saved me so much time that I wish I had it on every guitar
Exactly. I know what he was doing - he did not read the manual. You are supposed to strum open strings, not a chord. This is a prime example of people using it wrong and people who have no personal experience with it hating it because of dumdums' failure to comprehend basic instructions. I have had the Tronical version on my guitar for a while and been using it during concerts and so far so good. It has saved me a lot of hassle - not only do I not have to switch guitars for different tunings, I also tune up much faster during practices, which saves time which me and my bandmates can use for playing songs. We have literally been astonished by how much more we are able to manage during one practice just by saving time on tuning... Of course I get the argument that it is an electronic device and therefore volatile to malfunctions. But until the day it f**ks me during a concert, I'm a happy camper :)
I don't know many musicians who would feel comfortable taking out a 7 - 10,00 dollar custom shop guitar to gig with. Those guitars, as one of those guys said, are made for doctors and lawyers. Not working musicians.
Yep. Ten decent playing guitars. Not one of them a Gibson. Epiphone the same. Too expensive and underwhelming in comparison with the better quality from a competition brands.
@@AndyX everything has gone up in price- inflation and wage stagnation are to blame. For example: new tires for a car are super expensive and why they are just rubber?
Vladimir Lopez true but even their Marketing sucks I have a 1991 Firebird - they are not able to produce this quality now and their prices are ridiculous
As a kid who loved Thin Lizzy and Whitesnake, I always wanted a Les Paul. When I got older I got one. And I got a Stratocaster the same year because of a fortunate deal. And every time I reach for a guitar, it's the Stratocaster. I never expected that
For the uk it was paying premium prices for guitars shipped by Gibson and discovering that they were shipping us their B stock kit. It began to grate a bit and smacked of piss taking. I bought a Tokai in the end. And love it. And as you said earlier in your great video......... less than the cost of a Gibson.
I just picked up a Wolf Les Paul copy and it was $499. I bought it as a goof, figuring how good can this thing be. Well it came perfect out of the box, tuned it up and played it through a VOX AC15, Fender Twin, Fender Hot Rod, Fender Blues Deluxe, Fender Priceton, and my Marshall DSL 40 and if you were not a guitar player ( and even if you were ) you would have to listen real close to notice any difference at all. The Wolf is a heavy guitar but plays beautifully and the workmanship is spot on, at least on the one they sent me. I have contacted other owners and they have told me the same thing. The guitar also comes with a pretty nice hardshell case and has binding all around. For $499, I'll take it any day of the week!
at 16:30 the issue in a nut shell. Priced themselves out of the "real musician" market; and there are not enough doctors and lawyers around to buy their expensive guitars.
I bought my first Gibson.A 2017 Les Paul classic gold top.The nut was cracked and reglued at the factory.While changing the strings for the first time the tuning post fell out.The binding is not perfectly aligned with the body.I kept it because it sounds absolutely amazing.But for a guitar that cost $2000 it should be flawless.I would say that a Les Paul classic should cost around$1500 and a standard around $2000,and a custom around $2500.The prices for Gibson's is ridiculously expensive.I will stick with my Jackson's and EBMM guitars.They need to get there act together and stop over pricing everything because of the lineage of the name and not the quality.
I have a buddy who owns 4 pauls. 3 gibsons, 1 epi. Guess which one stays in tune. And the problems you describe? Unacceptable on an instrument at any price point. But somehow it walked right out gibson's door.
I bought the 2015 gold top deluxe with the G force tuner Never had an issue and plays like a dream Love the extra fretboard width That's just my opinion Only thing they swapped was the brass zero nut to titanium
All these negative stories are Bullshit... People who don’t own Gibsons and never tried them out are the ones spreading them. I go to Guitar Center and Sam Ash around NYC all the time. to me Fenders off the rack are worse than Gibs and Epis!!! By a long shot!!! People are just piling on for the sake of hating!!! Truth!!!
The one time my parents tried to surprise me with a guitar was with a robot gibson. They thought they were getting a good deal because it was marked down so much, but luckily I was able to talk to them about it before they bought it.
Did you really tell people drying out acoustic wood is why it sounds better with age? Raise your hand if you’ve heard of a guitar humidifier. Raise your hand if you’ve had a cracked top or sides from drying out. Wood petrifies. Have you ever tried to hammer a nail into a piece of 100 yr old timber? Thats what happening. Otherwise, manufacturers would just dry it down to 3% and have a classic. Going to have to disagree with you on why old guitar sound better sir.
The use of the term 'drying' is misleading. I don't think we're talking about moisture here, but rather the crystallisation of what would once (on a living tree) have been sap, which then turns to resin and then further changes, at a molecular level, over time. When this gradual process occurs naturally - not via kiln drying - it can make for more responsive and resonant vibrations within an instrument.
I agree with Rod. You have to think of it like the wood is aging and the oils and resins are drying over time. It's not moisture, but the wood is drying so to speak. Laminate finishes will prolong the aging since it seals the wood. Also, this is why roasted maple is becoming more popular. It's basically stabilizing the wood by mimicking the aging process.
I have a 1980 Guild Acoustic Rosewood. Dumb question: Should I be storing it in a case with a humidifier to prevent warping? So far it has not warped in a California climate.
I too could listen to Dave for hours, but I have a difference of opinion on lacquer finishes. They do not allow a guitar to "breathe." Breathing is taking in and expelling air. What lacquer actually does is allow moisture, not air, to enter and leave the guitar. I am an amateur builder, and I build a solidbody for myself every couple of years. I have used lacquer once in the past (spray cans) and I hated the smell and will no longer use it because of the smell, the health risks, and the lack of durability. My current choice is Minwax wipe-on poly. Two thin coats and I could not be happier with the results. I have owned and played both lacquer and poly finished guitars, and I honestly can't hear any difference. My hearing is excellent. When driving in my car I am always the first one to hear a siren. I can hear it even before my kids do. I am a retired Navy sonar technician, and my hearing was checked on a regular basis. Also, a possible solution for players of 24 3/4 inch scale guitars might be using the new big core strings offered by a number of companies these days. These strings have noticeably more tension and stay in tune better than conventional core strings. Anyways, I am not trying to piss you off or get under your skin. Your knowledge is clearly light-years beyond mine. I am just offering a few thoughts based on my own observations.
I don't buy the wood argument. Look at PRS. They use traditional tonewoods. They have models at all reasonable price points plus a custom shop. Quality is high at each price point. Shows what happens when you pay attention.
I recently traded my 2015 LP at a guitar shop for a new PRS S2 Mira semi-hollow. I paid a few bucks in the transaction. The G-Force tuner on the Les never worked right and broke strings. I had Grover locking tuners put on it. I traded because old injuries have made it painful to play the heavy LP, and the PRS is about half the weight, much easier to play (better upper fret access), stays in tune, has a broader tonal range, and is more resonant. To be fair, the LP sounded great like a Les Paul should, but it was a beast to play. At about $1,300, the PRS is a far better deal. I wish I could afford a PRS private stock guitar. PRS still has lots of that great maple with stunning grain. I agree with MultiInstrument Guy that you can get a fine U.S.-made PRS that looks good and performs well at any price point from about $1,000 through the $13,000 private stock (custom shop) models. The materials, tuners, pickups, aesthetics...always high quality.
With PRS having the founder at the helm makes all the difference, Paul has an amazing passion not only for His products but guitars and amps in general.I have met Paul and his enthusiasm is infectious.He simply looking loves what He does & obviously understands his market very well.from the SE guitar line right up to private stock they are all great guitars. It's a great shame with Gibson & I truly hope a buy out and change of leadership can happen ,but I think the hole may be too deep 😢
Even on the low end, epi has maintained an inventory of mahogany, rosewood and ebony, so I know it's still readily available. I've even been able to easily aquire standard tonewoods for guitars that I've built in my shop.
sorry but they chose the bad wood on purpose. It's way cheaper and if you're the head of a company that is working at the stock market you're only interested in numbers that have a big plus. Sorry but the thing with him beeing a guitarist is total bullshit. this guy can't even play.
For anyone complaining hard about the prices, you should note that adjusted for inflation, a 1959 Les Paul Standard (actually $269 then...) was $2350 . The same model goes for $2499 these days brand new. This doesn't even account for the exponentially increasing costs over the last half century in wood and labor. It's very hard to make money selling guitars. Gibson was NEVER a company selling guitars for 'the working guy' or anything like that. They were always super-luxury guitars.
But their problem was selling their modern( LP, SG, and Bass) guitars with antiquated bridges, quality control issues, and unreliable solder jobs on top of the luxury price. Especially with PRS on the rise.
I got an sgj in 2014 for 500 new, that’s not possible today all of em are over a grand . Not to mention all those tribute 60/70/80 models, a lot of those were good if u sat down st the store, many were amazing and didn’t have the crap laqcuer, they should keep doing that, those guitars were very unique sounding
I’m lucky enough to own a Gibson but it took some serious energy to save for it. They seriously need to get their prices down and get back to making top quality instruments.
Breaks my heart. I love Les Pauls but screw Gibson for making it impossible for the vast majority of musicians to own one. When I went big I bought a PRS Custom 24 and was WAY more impressed with it than a Les Paul Custom at a significantly higher price point.
On the topic of people playing bad instruments well: My sister, who went to Juilliard pre-college for doublebass, did her audition on a plywood bass. She still got in because the teachers could tell how good she was. So yeah -- ultimately a terrific musician can make any instrument sound good.
The CEO of Gibson did what a lot of (stupid) CEOs do.. He created a ton of debt to open up what he thought would be growth areas for Gibson, but it didn't fly as he expected. This left Gibson with a ton of debt and very little way to pay it off. Raising prices on your products in these situations doesn't cut it because your prices also are related to the demand for your product (this is basic economics in play). Yes.. if the demand stays the same you get more money.. but there is no guarantee that a price change will result in more revenue, precisely because you are impacting your demand with the price change. To me, the first rule of running a business is, never ever create so much debt that if your idea doesn't play out you can't recover from it. This is the rule Gibson broke and now the entire company is at risk. Its very sad, but its where they are. I'm not expert on guitars, but I've followed this story since my interest is business. And many companies over the years have made this same mistake, generally to quite catastrophic results. Debt can be a useful tool in your toolbox for creating growth in a business, but you must plan for things going badly, otherwise the tool will cut you badly.
Exactly. That's the main reason they are in trouble, Henry got too overzealous with investment opportunities, and they've yet to make a return on that investment. The QC with the guitars and the quality can be easily fixed, but to fix the issues Gibson has now, you'd need to get rid of the CEO and find one that won't get overzealous with spending and bring the company to ruin.
This is the problem with publicly traded companies- they are beholden to shareholders who demand growth to ensure that their return on investment is juicy. Growth for growth’s sake is never a good idea.
And in the end ...A thousand dollar guitar player ... playing a fifty dollar guitar ..will always sound better than ...a fifty dollar guitar player ... playing a thousand dollar guitar 😎🎸
True. But if you can afford it. A good guitar made with decent old growth wood constructed by a skilled luthier will help inspire you every time your fingers do the walking.
This is very true. I've played the guitar for over a decade and picking up a Les Paul and playing sounds way better than when I home and play on my $400 Ibanez. But, don't get me wrong, Ibanez makes very good guitars for the price.
I'm 50 in a couple of months and for the first time in my life I can afford a new Gibson Les Paul Standard. The problem is I don't want one of the current ones, and I think that says a lot.
J'ai 56 ans et je pense la même chose , j'ai une Gibson les Paul traditional HB 2012 payer 2000 euros que j'ai transformer en 59 custom shop fait maison et sa sonne , pour la transformer aux moins 600 euros de plus, elle est à 90% du model custom-shop Gibson, total 2600 euros au lieu 3500 et plus:
Most cars on the lower end are not inflated more than their worth. Ford doesn't make much on Fiestas. They make a ton on their trucks though. Gibson tried to ride their name for years and years, and are now paying the piper. I had a 1978 The Paul Firebrand that wasn't as nice as my 1979 Peavey T-60, just like my $6500 Weber mandolin kicks a $15000 Gibson Fern's arse
They also discontinued cakewalk Sonar development, which has really fried me personally as that is my favorite DAW since I started using various DAWs over the last few years. All we got was a sudden notice that development will stop. No pre warning leading up to this. So as a subscriber for rolling updates for a year, the rest of the time I had paid for is up in the dirt. Screw huge corporations IMHO. They just ruin things. I should know, I delt with one when I worked for a sample dev company.
Tried the demo version and routing Vienna Ensemble is not working so far. The routing system is tricky. Should give it another try though as eventually Sonar, like all Windows versions, will eventually stop working. However I doubt it will be for a few years.
I own a 2015 Epiphone Casino and am very happy with it. The Gibsons I own are a '78 'The Paul' and an '85 Les Paul Studio 'Standard.' I'm good with these three representations. Sad to see such an iconic name go down.
Mine's a 2013. LOVE it! It came with garbage fretwork, but most guitars do anyway - level, crown & polish fixed that. Installed Planet Waves 18:1 trim locks, and it's rock steady now. Tried the Pyramid Gold flatwounds, and I love them so they're staying. Final and best thing I did is Jason Lollar Dogears - they sound unreal. I own roughly 30 guitars, and this is the one I play 99% of the time. The Lollars take it from a 6/10 to a 10/10.
I have a 79 The Paul. Bought it new for $350 with a hardshell case. Still play it everyday and still sounds great. Ebony fretboard, grover tuners.Below the radar gem
ocan1033 My 1st guitar I got when I was 13 was a 79 The Paul with mods but I lost it being young and dumb some years back. I'd do anything to get it back. Could be bc I grew up playing it but I love the way it played better than any non-Gibson I've played. I haven't played any Epiphone but I was wondering how the better ones compare with Gibsons feel/playing style?
You guys really hit the nail on the head. I have a 1998 Les Paul Joe Perry sig (smoke burst) guitar. I got it from my mother (she bought it used then for $1800) for my high school graduation in 2001. I still have it today. I've modded it by putting locking Grover tuners on it, a reissue dirty fingers pickup in the bridge position, and a string butler on it just so the thing may stay in tune (spoiler alert, it doesn't even with graphite in the bone nut). The thing weights as much as an anvil. However, I love the tone and the way it plays. I was gigging with the thing for years and it literally gave me back problems. I had to tune after every song (and sometimes during a song break when I was tacet). I now only play strats and teles live and I have to tune them once; at the beginning of the set and they're good barring some unforeseen bump into a cymbal or my lead guitar player. They play great, sound great and guess what? I don't have back problems anymore. I will always have that guitar for recording, but that's all it's used for; and I'm tuning it every take. It's really sad, Gibson is literally known in pop culture as this amazing machine....I actually was going to buy a Gibson Songwriter deluxe for my acoustic gigs, but I bought a Martin instead because the Gibson's action was stupid high (I know it could be fixed), but the Martin just sat well in my hands (for almost 800$ less) and it was almost perfect right off the wall hanger in Guitar Center.
Q: Is Gibson done? A: Yep! The Quality Control is horrible ...Ive seen 59 CS Les Pauls where they simply forgot to File the nut. Absolute Unplayable...On a 5K Guitar?
Good discussion, another aspect of the story is that amps and effects have come a long way. When all is said and done not many people can hear the difference between a bone nut and a composite nut, which makes the most important aspect about guitars to me being feel and price point. I am surprised more hasn't been done in the evolution of guitar pickups like making them easier to swap out, which can have an audible tone change
crimfan Came here to say THIS! Leaving satisfied. I believe there is a viable business underneath the steaming pile of crud on their balance sheet. They should have recalled the days of CBS-Fender and realized that loading up on debt and vertically integrating doesn't work.
It's a classic problem. Vertical integration often sounds great but it's much harder to pull off than many suppose when the leadership doesn't understand the newly acquired businesses. Lots of companies have all sorts of side deals, people sucking at the teat, etc. I bet Gibson has a bunch. I'd be really surprised if the stupid side businesses aren't full of mediocre relatives and ex-spouses on the payroll, and so on. It takes a special kind of idiot to come up with Les Paul themed studio monitors. Short of getting sold and having a hard housecleaning, this won't change. Example: My dad used to be the general manager of a company. He did a bunch of cost/benefit analysis and showed pretty strongly that about half the business didn't make money, essentially that the profitable parts of the business were subsidizing parts that were breaking even at best. He went to the people above him and presented the case for selling those parts of the business and focusing on the parts that made more money while looking for other avenues for investment, which would have dropped the capitalization of the company. Nope, evidently the owner preferred to hang out with the higher capitalization people and be viewed as an "innovator", so they let yet another GM go. I'm sure the previous GM had said much the same thing a few years before! This happens way more often than people think.
When you brought up the well-known tuning issues that brought back an interesting memory. Years ago I was at a Led Zeppelin concert and Jimmy Page was constantly fiddling around with his tuning pegs. I assumed it was just part of his well-known bizarre playing technique until I figured out that he was tuning his guitar in the middle of songs.
Two years ago I bought a Gibson J45 Cutaway brand new. It marked the 25th year since I started playing. I said if I am getting a new acoustic I am getting what I want. I have no regrets on that purchase. In two years time I’ll be 40 and I want a Gibson Les Paul Standard. I just hope the price doesn’t get driven up to much between now and then.
The other elephant in the room is the significant different in material and labor costs between fender guitars and gibson guitars. As a woodworker, I think it's plainly obvious why a standard les paul costs $3000 when a standard strat costs $1500. But every dipshit in the UA-cam comment section who has never tried make anything with their own two hands is basically "why isn't making a set neck guitar exactly as easy as making a bolt on neck guitar" and my eyes roll out of my skull.
You know, guys, I have had a ton of Gibson and Epiphone guitars over the last 30 years and I've - honest to God - never had any issues with the tuning stability of any instrument that wasn't a direct result of a poor setup or a badly cut nut.
I had a 2018 standard. Wanted a lp standard my whole life. It was, eh. Traded it for a Martin acoustic and never felt bad about it. Won't buy another gibson.
Love classic Gibson guitars, but I wouldn't dream of buying a new one now. I've tried picking them up at music stores throughout the past decade.. Absolutely unplayable junk! Epiphone has surpassed Gibson, and it's really not even close now..
I have a late model 90's Manny's Music Gibson faded special and a Paul Reed Smith Abalone inlay $3000.00 w/ Macarty pickups and I play the Gibson all day long. Swapped out the pickups and sanded the neck. Plays like a dream. I love that faded special.
One of my favorite guitars is my 2015 Gibson Les Paul studio that is a single cutaway, dual HB, with dot inlays and fretboard binding that I got brand new from GC for $700. It was on sale that week only and was regularly $999. That said, a buddy of mine has bought about 5 different Les Paul standards and studios since then trying to find one that plays like mine. He hasn’t yet which is outrageous! He’s spent tons on them and I wouldn’t even play one of them, they suck so bad. My 2008 Les Paul standard is also an excellent, excellent, guitar I bought at Best Buy brand new for $1,800.
i have a self tuner 2015 Paul . The self tuner blows, i removed within hours ) . But why i bought the 2015 Paul is because it has a wider nut which for larger hands /fingers can make playing easier . Plus mini humbuckers , Love them , and a switch for single coil , which I've always add to my other pauls , and a +10 db switch for solo's .
Quality control and customer service are a joke with Gibson these days. True story. I'm at a music store in St. Louis, Mo and I see a Gibson mandolin. It's back was not matched and there was a space or crack between the two back pieces. I asked the guy what was going on, why hadn't they sent it back. This is a very reputable music store. The guy tells me, "We called Gibson and told them about it, asked them to replace it, etc. Gibson told us flat out, 'someone will buy it, it's a Gibson.". Gibson refused to replace it. So the store has it on display, marked down to a laughable price and uses it as a cautionary tale. Another true story. A different music store in Missouri. I see a two ES335s on the wall and see a "Price Reduced" tag on both. No other Gibsons in the store. Hmm, strange, these guys used to sell Gibbies all the time. So I ask the guy what the deal is. He said they have had more complaints and returns from Gibson purchasers in the past couple of years than in the previous decades since they have been open. These two 335s were the last Gibsons to go through that store, and they also had noticible flaws. The store said until Gibson earns back their reputation and fixes their quality control issues, they will not be selling Gibsons anymore. To me Gibsons are priced on their reputation from decades ago. Now, it's over priced, under quality checked, mass produced mediocrity.
From what I understand, Epiphone is part of Gibson, essentially their brand for lower cost guitars, just as Squire is for Fender. If this is the case, they are in this together (unless Gibson decides to sell the Epiphone brand ...)
@@danielwustenberg4107 What I believe Penelope meant was that Epiphone were originally a smaller company to Gibson, but growing fast, and made superior guitars. In order to get rid of the competition, Gibson simply bought them and stripped out their expertise. That doesn't sit right with a lot of people.
I bought an Epiphone Sheraton in all white back in '96--my first electric purchase. I have loved her every day since. I would have always loved to own an ES-335 but WAY too expensive which essentially led me to become a Tele player on the higher end of spectrum....
Another factor that everyone ignores is that Gibson is ignoring modern metal players. I dont want to spend 3000$ on a guitar that immediately needs new pickups and a complete setup by a luthier. It’s really great that boomers love thier gibsons but Gibson has hung everyone else out to dry. I’ve found the answer to crappy Gibson is an amazing PRS.
They are. When the bankruptcy proceedings are done, Henry may still be involved with the company in some manner (minority owner, perhaps), but he'll no longer be calling the shots. A whole new management team will be in place. Hopefully, folks who understand the guitar business.
I think I'll never buy a Gibson, unless it was a very good deal in a vintage one. That politic of not improving anything because of "tradition" is utterly stupid when in fact they have changed A LOT over the years. So, you can sandwich whatever the crap you have at hand to make a body, chamber it to make it lighter, but you can't change the angle of the headstock to prevent damages or change the scale of your instruments to improve tunning stability because of "tradition". Gibson deserves bankrupcy.
The custom shop reissues do go up in value over time. I was gifted a 1960 Les Paul Cherry Sunburst Reissue from a record company back in 1989. They paid around $1,200 for it back then, which was expensive at that time. I played it quite a bit when I was performing, then put it away for 20 years. I recently sold it for $4,500. I also got a 1989 SJ-200 (I believe it was a custom model) they bought for me for around $900. I sold it around 1996 for around $1,000. What would that guitar be worth in good condition today? At least $3,000 I would imagine.
This episode should be called “How I Saved Gibson”. You and you buddy’s gave them their billion dollar business model for nothing. Maybe they should sponsor your brilliant blog now!
Why aren’t people considering there’s just enough guitars around. 60 years of dozens of companies mass producing will create enough supply, especially for a product that will last indefinitely. There’s enough guitars lying around, there’s not much a reason to buy a new one.
Interesting point. I guess the same could be said about cars running for 10+ years. Yet somehow cars continue to be mass manufactured in record numbers. The market can sustain the supply because it is not one single price point (user). The video seems to make a lot of sense on issues with the supply side. I believe demand is there for the right price point. Do not forget most guitarist own more that one guitar.
LMAO... when a guy chooses a name that has anything to do with possums, you know he's rural !! For the self-reliant man the world is your oyster ! When SHTF the self-reliant man will be finding solutions while the sucklers wail and cry. Did you happen to read the Northerner, Ralph Waldo Emerson's "Self Reliance" in your youth? In any event it's always a blessing coming across a self-reliant person in this sea of teet-sucklers, LOL. Best Regards Mate!
Thomas FitzGibbon yes there may be many well functioning guitars from the past. but the worlds population is growing like crazy! we are now 7,6 billion people in the world. in 1955 the worlds population was only 2,7 billion.
I absolutely agree with everything you guys said here. I’ve been preaching for a long time about Gibson making only their core guitars, and concentrating on making them GOOD. I play a Les Paul Studio from 2013, and before that I played an SG Standard from 2008. I’ve been extremely lucky that both of them were fabulous and played excellent. Great video.
I would say the PRS wave started even earlier. One of my favorite mainstream bands, 311, was using PRS back in the early-mid 90s. Also, Carlos Santana. Lot of 90s garage band players seaked those PRS's way before the new metal wave in the late 90s early 00s. The college rock bands circuiting around those same years (early-mid 90s) also many of those players were adopting PRS. As a player, the lower action you could get on a PRS was also a huge plus, and they were so durable, light and just got you closer to expression without thinking about an instrument in the way. I still have my 92' CE24. To this day, it's just an amazing instrument.
Yeah charging $3,000 for a used J-200. Fuck them. Gibson cant make any money because they decided to take the exclusivity route for their products. Instead of pricing them at a reasonable price so average joes could actually afford them and give Gibson business, they decided to put it all in the name. Kind of like Apple.
Whenever I hear guitarist talking abotu wood, I'm ready for a pure bullshit session. The pickups are where the sound comes from, plain and simple. They have guitars made out of acrylic, fiber glass, and carbon fiber. If they have good pickups, you get a good sound. End of discussion.
The most important part of an electric guitar are pick ups ,a nice action and a good amp to go with it and a nice chorus and overdrive facility included on the pre amp, a Squier tele for a 100 bucks and a Roland amp for about the same price will set anyone up nicely and inexpensively and thats it!, period! just dont listen to those arsehole guitar snobs , wood! my arse
Spot on and these self same dickheads go on about saving rainforests ( Duh! , where the fuck do they think wood comes from) and the environment when there not bullshitting about wood being the most important component of a guitar, ironic eh! but these are the kind of wankers your dealing with
Excellent info about why slack key tunings aren't for shorter scale length guitars or for guitar companies who don't understand why double basses are huge and violins are small.
Gibson is missing out on the $500-800 market for sure. If Gibson started producing quality instruments outside of the USA at a good price people would buy it. Fender along with many other manufacturers have proven you don't need made in USA on the headstock anymore. Just make sure they are quality before going to market.
Doesn't have Gibson's weight BUT they are regarded as decent entry / semi pro guitars that mirror the Gibson range. I have a 2016 Epi Casino and it's a decent guitar, holds tune, had no issues with build. Great through a Marshall. Oasis recorded their multi-million selling debut album Definitely Maybe on Epiphone guitars.
I think epiphone has it's place but it shouldn't be taking up the $500+ market. Not because they're bad guitars but the fact is brands sell guitars and epiphone is a lesser brand in that regard. At the end of the day epiphone is a Gibson copy. Whether it's warranted or not people would choose a Gibson les paul for $700 over an epiphone that looks exactly the same for $700. Every single time.
Or Orville... Just make sure that you can compete with PRS SE, because THAT is the price range that SELLS. Korean Epiphones were better than the later ones. Go to manufacturers like Samick, Cort, World... and you'll get good guitars at a reasonable price. On top of that, Japanese Orville guitars for let's say €899-1299.- could be interesting and have them made by companies like Fuji Gen and Terada.
Why not make them similar to the latest China Epiphone inspired by. I have a LP Standard and an ES339 that tune up fine and stay in tune. I don’t need an expensive guitar. I’d love to have a Gibson made guitar though.👍😊
I have a Gibson Epiphone special thats great. I have a son thats an amazing player but your right ; we can't pay alot for a nice guitar. The $500 to $750 range is a good target because it's hard for us to even come up with this. Great video
I have a 89 Les Paul studio, made in Nashville with an ebony fret board, carved maple top! It plays and sound amazing. Only mods are cream pickup frames, pick guard, pickup switch, and changed the knobs to top hats!….. did I say ebony!
Exactly! I work at gc and maaaannnnn the quality control is bogus and to get something good it's $4000 and up! Make great guitars in the 1-2000 and y'all will be fine!
I'm just a beginner, (knowing absolutely nothing about guitar I am a flutist all my life and just now (I'm 54) entering the guitar world) and after this, I will shy away from Gibson because of the scale length issue. And I'm a fan of Zakk Wylde who made the Les Paul famous for his drop D tuneings, now i have to re-think pursuing a Les Paul and think about another brand. THANK YOU\m/\m/ Rock ON!
Scale length issue??? 😂😂😂 there is none!!! Don’t listen to these idiots talking about scale lengths!!! 😂😂😂🙄 millions of smaller length scale guitars have been sold Fender has them Jazzmasters and mustangs too don’t listen to these crackpots!!!😂😂
Scale length is subjective. It is much easier to bend notes on a shorter scale guitar. Plus it will handle heavier guage strings and still be very playable. I thought the break angle was the cause of the tuning problem. But i don't detune so ... Just ignore me.
I have 3 Gibson guitars, 1 LP classic from 2002, 1 ES335 dot from 2013 and a SG std from 2015. The only one that has tuning issues is the SG, and I blame that on the robot tuners, not the scale length. (the others have traditional tuners)
I have a custom shop logo on my 1990 LP custom that looks like a Randy Rhoads copy..i cant seem to find much info on this, where is the custom shop located ? and do they have a logo they use?
Nicolas Rebagliati Gibson hires almost any Chinese factory to make epiphone. They have gone through a lot of factories in the last 10 to 20 years. After they make epis, they keep making them (without any quality control, and with Gibson logos.).
Remley that’s an old myth. Gibson have their factory in china since 2003 for build epiphones. Gibson used other factories like samick when they used to build in korea. And I think they use other factories for indonesia too. But not china
Two things. First… the wood they started with wasn’t necessary hand selected old growth… it was just what they COuLd get. They didn’t have a lot of choices at the time since guitars weren’t the primary buyers of wood. Furniture makers got the choice bits back then. They got leftovers. (But it was still good old growth) Second, if you want your new acoustic to have that “50 year old warmth” there’s a luthier trick. Place a 10” speaker over the hole and turn on the radio… for 2 months. After 2 months your guitar will have 50 years worth of vibrations in it and will sound pretty close to what the old ones sound like. 😎
What's the deal with Gibson? The company is runned by a CEO,who has no fucking clue about what guitarists want and is trying to turn the company into a ''lifestyle company''. Gibson is selling overprized crap,plain and simple.Their quality control is a total joke,they sell guitars with fretboards made out of Richlite(for those who don't know this is a synthetic material,essentially superhardened pap-mache),for thousands of Dollars, when even S.Korean ''budget'' guitars have proper ebony boards.They try to pass gimmicks like these stupid robot-tuners as ''innovations'',instead of implementing real innovations in guitar building,like putting a freaking volute joint between the neck and the headstock,something that even cheap ''Chibsons'' have and that is cheap,works in order to strengthen the headstock and is used for decades by everybody else in the business. For the price of a new, production Gibson L/P Custom,you can actually custom build a guitar,to your specs with various smaller companies like Mayones or Kiesel.
Wow... I didn't know about Richlite...Wtf does that look like? And how does it handle humidity changes. I'm thinking in high humidity it would adversely affect tuning and moreso the aspect of swelling and shrinkage leaving sharp edges around the fret ends. Just the thought they are/were using compressed paper makes me want to go else where immediately.
Mickeyislowd martin uses it on their mexican made guitars.i have 2 of them a 000rs1 and a dreadnaught junior. both are nice guitars especially for the money.i live in Florida and after hurricane Irma hit my power was out for a week.High humidity with no air conditioning didnt seem to affect either fretboard. its a nice material feels and looks kind of sort of like ebony but obviously its not.I guess time will tell how it holds up.
When I was in Korea visiting my S. Korean wife's family, we were in Seoul and came upon an entire multi-level mall devoted to only guitar stores...my wife was bored but I was in heaven lol!
I actually think another guitar company will end up buying Gibson! Despite their financial problems they are one of the biggest names in guitars!I don’t believe they will just go bankrupt and fall off the face of the planet!
Regarding the tuning problem - I get the D/G issue with the strings pulling to the side and binding in the saddle and the big pull-back on the headstock. I don't understand how the shorter scale would be implicated on tuning stability.
Yeah, he's wrong about a few technical details. Wood, intonation / scale length, and finish. 335, 345, 330, etc... they're all friggin' plywood dude. As far as necks, the grain orientation makes a huge difference. A quartersawn neck with straight grain will be more rigid, and far less prone to headstock breaks.
He's not wrong, it has to do with intonation. But the quality of the build has to be the main issue here, they are making crap guitars now.. I'll take that guy's opinion over a random person in the comment section.
@@TheDyingScotsman With me it's not a right or wrong question but rather (my) skull thickness - I don't understand how the overall scale of the guitar would contribute to intonation problems all other things being equal; understood that shorter scale decreases overtone content etc and is bad for tuning down (this is presumably why the low b-string on my 5-string bass sounds so dull - I call it the special effects string). FWIW I've been a Gibson fan since forever but to me there's been something wrong there going on ten years or so that I've been aware - the robot guitar being a particularly embarrassing episode. Several years ago at Winter NAMM the Gibson room was a casino(!) with baccarat, craps, poker, etc.; they handed out play money. There was basically one rack of product in the whole room. I walked away wondering what the tacit tag line was supposed to be - "take a chance with Gibson"? "lose your shirt with Gibson"? Another year there was a rack of what looked like ES335 prototypes with a single-coil pickup tacked in between the buckers - extremely rough work with exposed wiring and the guy working the area had no idea what they were.
When I was 12-13 my grandma gave me her old acoustic. She said she saved up for a couple of weeks about 20-30 years prior working a junk job to buy it. I'm 21 now and I still play it almost every day. I've had friends ask me why I play such an old piece of "junk" but it's the guitar that's always inspired me. It an old Takamine G series. I'm mainly a blues/folk guy and will ALWAYS play this guitar. I love it like I love her. These guys are right, Gibson may not always make the best stuff anymore, but most importantly play what you love. Play what inspires you. Hell play what you can get your hands on. Thanks again Memaw for showing me my first four chords.
OK, I'm glad to see this; I was on my way to buy a J-200 acoustic, but now I've got second thoughts. I really want a high-quality guitar because I'm tired of playing the overseas boxes under $1K that just aren't good enough.
Hmm. Are they dragging Epiphone down the drain with them? They made reasonable guitars a guy could actually afford. My Korean built Dot is an eminently decent guitar. I'll take my AJ-28S to my grave. Had a corian bridge installed, which REALLY woke it up.
Well, there was no obvious path to the sequence of buttons that you had to press so you have to refer back to the card if you forget the sequence. Even then, there was no particularly obvious rationale for the sequence of button pushing. I am usually really good with computers but this was an exercise in frustration. If one string is out of tune, I don't want to have to go through a whole string of buttons to retune my entire guitar. It's easier to just manually tune that string. I also don't like trusting a computers judgement to tuning, since there are slight differences in tuning that you might want depending on where on the neck you are predominantly playing that you might want to manually adjust for.
and if I recall, after i got used to the robo tuners, it was a whole new giant pain in the ass to change the strings. I found it was much faster and easier to install locking tuners, and a little plastic device to rapidly turn the key.
They jumped the shark when they started making a guitar that tunes itself instead of a guitar that stays in tune.
Yup
That is really what the problem is. The managment doesn't understand their customers.
To add to that, all it really would take is a redesign of the headstock. Or a device that is on the headstock to prevent the bend at the nut. Headstock should get a redesign still though.
Hahaha
To be honest, most guitar players (including myself) are extremely conservative and anything that deviates from the classic Les Paul look would be poorly received. To improve the tuning stability you have to change the headstock, which wouldn't be a popular change. Maybe some people at Gibson simply wish to do something else that churning out copies of a 60 year old design, but their customers won't let them.
I grew up with no money....i was a gibson fan because of GNR, but since they were so unreachable, had to learn with cheap ibanez guitars, time flew and i bought a better one, a better one and so on. Now i own two prestige ibanez and a couple of hi ends fenders because i grew up with those brands...if i had the chance when a was a kid to have access to the cheapest gibson, i would own 10k gibson today. So i am a living proof of one of the reasons why gibson went down.Too Elitist.
Same dude. I grew up and slash was my guy. But I ended up with the Ibanez rg, now my main is a vai jem because it’s an rg on steroids. I don’t even look at Gibson when I go to the shop
you may be interested to know that Slash was originally playing a Gibson copy built to the specs, not a real Gibson.
I just cannot justify spending $3k+ on a guitar man. Been playing 28 years. I have the money, just don't feel it's necessary. $2k is my upper limit.
@@ezumach agree, brother. It just too much money. It doesnt matter you are a millionaire, it just to god damn money.
@@FernandoLobo Yeah man, especially when you have brands like D'angelico putting out incredible quality guitars in the $800 - $1.3k range. I'd rather have a Gretsch Electromatic, D'angelico Premier, and a Strat American Standard. All three of those guitars cost me $3k because I bought two on clearance, one used. $3k for what? A name on a headstock? No thanks..
I was the machinist Henry hired in early Nov 93 to program, setup, and run their Komo 4+4 CNC milling machine that arrived in late Nov 93. This machine made all the solid bodies Gibson offered from that point onwards. I can't remember the plant manager's name but I never answered to him anyway but he wasn't a luthier either and never understood my suggestions for improving the models Gibson offered. I used to work with an engineer named Matt who was a luthier and understood my concerns which we addressed privately. The blueprints we used were copies of the originals and for the most part we would recreate the same dimensions as the original blueprints. Gibson tried to make bodies that had balsa wood in a cavity under the maple tops. After a small run of these I objected against making anymore of these crappy designs. Then they tried to use Poplar wood and again I was against making these because I saw them crack overnight. They tried pocketing underneath along with lightning holes and it was making the guitars prone to warping or cracking. In my experience Gibson made some really great guitars and some really crappy ones. It all depended on the quality of the wood they used. The 1st 100th anniversary I built, hungover from partying with Johnny Neal the night before, was a Les Paul Special double cut on Saturday morning Jan 1st with Henry J, Matt, the plant manager, and myself. I was surprised they chose this model instead of a 57 Black Beauty or 59 Standard. It was made out of Poplar wood if I remember right because I remember thinking Henry was a cheap bastard for picking that wood over the mahogany. When it was completed 5 days later I got to sign it and it sat in a rotating display case through 94 at the employee entrance. I made bodies, fingerboards, necks, and cut inlay pockets for 100k plus guitars. Only a handful bear my signature, many have my initials either under the fingerboard on the neck or the neck pocket on the body. My original agreement was I would be allowed to build my own guitar my way out of materials of my choosing. I decided I wanted a Lucille made from 95% Birdseye Maple on the body and neck. Abalone inlays and binding with gold tuners and pickups and hardware. Upon finishing the guitar in an antique amber stain and several coats of clear, Henry said the guitar was too expensive for me to have. The guitar sat in my corner of the machining area for two months in its case wrapped in plastic. Then BB King showed up in early August and Henry gathered all the employees to the presentation of BB getting another Black Lucille. I brought the guitar I made and as BB was about to get up from the table to leave, I stepped forward from behind the crowd and told him the guitar I made was from the employees. When he opened it he had a huge smile on his face. What was Henry going to do? Tell BB King he couldn't have it? He played that guitar for two hours that night at Riverfront Park in Nashville and I attended that show as an ex-employee of Gibson. It was priceless when Henry told me I was fired and I said now you know what it's like to have something you wanted taken from you...I left August 94 after 9 months. My standards were higher than Gibsons and I've never regretted leaving.
Cool story 👀
_...Henry said the guitar was too expensive for me to have._
Because of course he did. I could get quite specific as to why that is, but I'll simply say that _he couldn't help himself._
He is *_The Man Who Saved Gibson, Only To Ruin It Again._* And I hope history is not one bit kind to him.
You fcking legend
Fuckin excellent story. Genuinely. Fuck Henry and congratulations for at least a Blues Legend like King. Where did you go after Gibson?
@@uoza92the company I worked at before Gibson had burned down 2 weeks before I started at Gibson. They bought another building and the machines were delivered a week after I left Gibson so I went to work for them again. I was the shop foreman for years until the owner died and I moved to Montana. I'm now retired from machining but I've continued building guitars and designing new models for myself and family.
I'm a little surprised that they didn't discuss Gibson's policy of the last 10 years or so, of requiring retailers to order something like $100,000 worth of inventory in order to be considered an "authorized Gibson dealer". This pretty much insured that the smaller shops could not afford to carry new Gibson guitars. I wonder if this practice hurt or helped Gibson over time?
You'll know the tree by its fruit :3
Definitely hurt...shelf life on these Gibson’s are long. My Gibson 2017 Classic was $2000 when it came out in October 16 by August they were on sale for $1450 where I got one😬 plays great!!! No issues!!!
djfrank68 It's the same as car dealerships have to buy minimum stock and corporate badging and practices.
+J. J. Common practice doesn't mean good practice. It's used to force dealers into investing in stock, and therefore making a priority of trying to sell it.
My dealer had to drop Gibson for that very reason. Very high rep local shop, serving big chunk of local market. Now sells Bernies instead.
$5000 guitars that's what went wrong.
Yep lol plain and simple
I've paid 10k for an esp. Things are worth what you are willing to pay. The market always speaks.
@@ChaseSpec I've said it before, i'll say it again the whole "free market" idea is bull. It was destroyed back in the 40's and it's why the leaders after WWII began regulating things. The market can be, and will be manipulated to the benefit of the larger corps.
@@davidmiller9485 I'm not entirely sure what point you are trying to make here. Market manipulation is a "thing", but it's not at all relevant to what we were talking about. Companies can make products and price them however they want. It's then up to the market to decide if the cost is worth it. I'm not saying that 10k is a good price or a bad price. Just that it was one I was willing to pay for a particular guitar. Gibson is going broke just like other high-end companies like Harley Davidson. They refuse to accept that others are just better and you can't sell nostalgia forever.
Unions, health insurance, the same things that priced every other American worker out of the market
the quality control went in the trash can. They were hoping to sell junk just on the strength of their name. shame on you Gibson.
They are still junk
Too many people with MBA's trying to make their mark in the business world with a quick uptick in the quarterly returns with no thoughts to long term strategy or profitability. We have been seeing this in every market as corporations take over boutique businesses.
Yes! Yes! Yes!!!! Even Warren Buffet said that the requirement for quarterly earnings is killing the longterm profitability of companies by putting so much attention on short term gains.
100% This same short term attitude is the ruin of many, many profitable businesses.
If the guy running Gibson isn't a lifelong player who interacts regularly with real working musicians and dreamers who love to play, they have no true leader.
People used to be able to "work their way up" through in-house company promotions. What MAJOR benefit did this have? THEY KNEW MANY MORE ASPECTS OF SAID BUSINESS!
"Couldn't get good wood" Yeah....that happens to me, too. Older I get......
Donald: SAD!
Don't they make a pill for that?
Yeah...it's called Fender.....
Ha Ha, Good call :-)
😂
Perhaps one of the reasons the guitar industry and culture in general is on its knees is the fact that everyone seems to have a wet dream about an era gone 60 years ago.. There appears to be very little space and acceptance for modern innovation that has the potential to make new classics. As relevant and trend-setting the late 50s and early 60s were, we are not in the 50s and 60s any more! Bear in mind that Jimi Hendrix and Jimmy Page didn't play vintage guitars, they played guitars that were new. Endless re-issues and circle jerks about the past are not helping.
What about new materials? Construction techniques? We now know fairly conclusively the absolute majority of the guitar's sound is the pickups and the amp, so why not go berserk in exploring new things? It's potentially very exciting, and we're in the age of the biggest technological advances, but some people are killing the fun for no other reason other than wishing to re-live their youth - doctors and lawyers are not rock n' roll.
Watch Rick’s top ten Kickass Metal on Spotify. Sure he is a Les Paul guy, but he has, and plays just about everything. Methinks you are using hyperbole, inadvertently,l perhaps. 🤔
Many companies have tried composites over the years, Gibson included, and more often than not it simply comes down to long term maintenance and playability...guitars are made the way they are because they sound great and we've had a LONG time to figure out how to make them remain stable in their tuning and not fall apart due to age and chemical breakdown...technological advancements have already come a long way with amps, but the tactile nature of the guitar and its operation isn't likely to change anytime soon...also, Hendrix and Page played late 50's guitars in the late 60's rather than brand new guitars...
For what it's worth, I'm a lawyer and I heartily agree with your sentiment about manufacturers. In fact, what you're saying is sage advice regarding the production of ANY type of good-they must meet the nature of the demand as it is, not as they think it should be.
It's lazy logic by Gibson in equating nostalgia w practical need. Thinking our love of Jimi or Jimmy's sound means a desire to have access to their exact same guitar when, as you pointed out, both were playing the best of what was available at that time and, similarly, today's musician wants the benefit of decades' hindsight in their hands.
They should've been listening to customer feedback instead of dreamily staring at some old tour poster on the wall for inspiration.
Watch Kingfish Ingram jam out on a 100% stock $800 MIM Stratocaster. Is all this gear fetishism really necessary?
Page and Hendrix didn't play "vintage" but they definitely went older guitars that weren't in production because they sounded good. People like page are the reason we have Les Paul standards built today. Gibson had already discontinued and moved on to the SG with no plans of bringing back the expensive to build unpopular standard. Basically most of the people you would name were playing the equivalent of pawn shop gems, not the new offerings so closer to vintage (a term that's come about in the last couple decades) than brand new
That auto tune story is hilarious and sad at the same time
knew some that had one. horrible. it would often retune out of tune lol
@ Oisin
Wait until the auto-driving cars come out. The love to make more crap to put on stuff so they can justify a higher price. How about just make what we need and make it better?
but can't you turn the thing off for while you're playing? Why wouldn't they make it so it tuned only when you want it to. Just set the tuning you want maintained and have it adjusted when you press the button, boom, problem solved. Can't Gibson figure that out?
@Gumshon My 2015 SG has it and it works just like you said. You press a button and it's on, you press that button again and it's off. I don't know what that guy was doing quite honestly ahahah.
Actually, playing stuff in so many different tunings like I do, it has saved me so much time that I wish I had it on every guitar
Exactly. I know what he was doing - he did not read the manual. You are supposed to strum open strings, not a chord. This is a prime example of people using it wrong and people who have no personal experience with it hating it because of dumdums' failure to comprehend basic instructions. I have had the Tronical version on my guitar for a while and been using it during concerts and so far so good. It has saved me a lot of hassle - not only do I not have to switch guitars for different tunings, I also tune up much faster during practices, which saves time which me and my bandmates can use for playing songs. We have literally been astonished by how much more we are able to manage during one practice just by saving time on tuning... Of course I get the argument that it is an electronic device and therefore volatile to malfunctions. But until the day it f**ks me during a concert, I'm a happy camper :)
I don't know many musicians who would feel comfortable taking out a 7 - 10,00 dollar custom shop guitar to gig with. Those guitars, as one of those guys said, are made for doctors and lawyers. Not working musicians.
here's the 3 real reasons for gibson turding out
#1) to expensive
#2) too expensive
#3) two expensive
And oh yea - Put a DAMN roller nut on them!!!
Yeah and they're not cheap either.
Gibson priced out the average player. They got greedy and the average guy doesn’t buy a Gibson. Average everyday people are the ones buying.
Yep. Ten decent playing guitars. Not one of them a Gibson. Epiphone the same. Too expensive and underwhelming in comparison with the better quality from a competition brands.
have you priced a PRS or american fender ? or just living under a rock
@@AndyX everything has gone up in price- inflation and wage stagnation are to blame. For example: new tires for a car are super expensive and why they are just rubber?
Vladimir Lopez true but even their Marketing sucks I have a 1991 Firebird - they are not able to produce this quality now and their prices are ridiculous
Buy a squier fender
As a kid who loved Thin Lizzy and Whitesnake, I always wanted a Les Paul. When I got older I got one. And I got a Stratocaster the same year because of a fortunate deal.
And every time I reach for a guitar, it's the Stratocaster. I never expected that
For the uk it was paying premium prices for guitars shipped by Gibson and discovering that they were shipping us their B stock kit. It began to grate a bit and smacked of piss taking. I bought a Tokai in the end. And love it. And as you said earlier in your great video......... less than the cost of a Gibson.
Companies always need to be humble enough to listen to the customer.
Shaun mcinnis
It's the MBA-making-decisions phenomenon. "I have a business degree, therefore I am an expert on everything."
Are these MBAs all accountants? Because it's the "let's save more here by cutting more costs" accountants that push all of this
I just picked up a Wolf Les Paul copy and it was $499. I bought it as a goof, figuring how good can this thing be. Well it came perfect out of the box, tuned it up and played it through a VOX AC15, Fender Twin, Fender Hot Rod, Fender Blues Deluxe, Fender Priceton, and my Marshall DSL 40 and if you were not a guitar player ( and even if you were ) you would have to listen real close to notice any difference at all. The Wolf is a heavy guitar but plays beautifully and the workmanship is spot on, at least on the one they sent me. I have contacted other owners and they have told me the same thing. The guitar also comes with a pretty nice hardshell case and has binding all around. For $499, I'll take it any day of the week!
I bought an epiphone and put Seth Lover pickups in it. Total investment of about $600 and sounds absolutely amazing. $3,500 for an ES-335? Crazy.
Steverino Arch I bought an old Yamaha sl-800s lawsuit les paul for $700, it sounds even better than Gibson custom shop
Epiphone is bae
The dude on the left looks like every Guitar Center manager
John Russell ironic
Yeah!
at 16:30 the issue in a nut shell. Priced themselves out of the "real musician" market; and there are not enough doctors and lawyers around to buy their expensive guitars.
I bought my first Gibson.A 2017 Les Paul classic gold top.The nut was cracked and reglued at the factory.While changing the strings for the first time the tuning post fell out.The binding is not perfectly aligned with the body.I kept it because it sounds absolutely amazing.But for a guitar that cost $2000 it should be flawless.I would say that a Les Paul classic should cost around$1500 and a standard around $2000,and a custom around $2500.The prices for Gibson's is ridiculously expensive.I will stick with my Jackson's and EBMM guitars.They need to get there act together and stop over pricing everything because of the lineage of the name and not the quality.
I have a buddy who owns 4 pauls. 3 gibsons, 1 epi. Guess which one stays in tune. And the problems you describe? Unacceptable on an instrument at any price point. But somehow it walked right out gibson's door.
I bought the 2015 gold top deluxe with the G force tuner
Never had an issue and plays like a dream
Love the extra fretboard width
That's just my opinion
Only thing they swapped was the brass zero nut to titanium
Exactly! I have the 2015 SG and the G Force Tuner has worked perfectly since the day I bought it, and actually saved me so much time
All these negative stories are Bullshit... People who don’t own Gibsons and never tried them out are the ones spreading them.
I go to Guitar Center and Sam Ash around NYC all the time. to me Fenders off the rack are worse than Gibs and Epis!!! By a long shot!!! People are just piling on for the sake of hating!!! Truth!!!
The one time my parents tried to surprise me with a guitar was with a robot gibson. They thought they were getting a good deal because it was marked down so much, but luckily I was able to talk to them about it before they bought it.
Lol, still nice of your parents though.
My dad owned and played a 1934 L5 with the Harry Reser band. Now that was a guitar!!
That is my favorite guitar of all time! I have a 1931 L3
Did you really tell people drying out acoustic wood is why it sounds better with age? Raise your hand if you’ve heard of a guitar humidifier. Raise your hand if you’ve had a cracked top or sides from drying out.
Wood petrifies. Have you ever tried to hammer a nail into a piece of 100 yr old timber? Thats what happening. Otherwise, manufacturers would just dry it down to 3% and have a classic. Going to have to disagree with you on why old guitar sound better sir.
The use of the term 'drying' is misleading. I don't think we're talking about moisture here, but rather the crystallisation of what would once (on a living tree) have been sap, which then turns to resin and then further changes, at a molecular level, over time. When this gradual process occurs naturally - not via kiln drying - it can make for more responsive and resonant vibrations within an instrument.
I agree.
I agree with Rod. You have to think of it like the wood is aging and the oils and resins are drying over time. It's not moisture, but the wood is drying so to speak. Laminate finishes will prolong the aging since it seals the wood. Also, this is why roasted maple is becoming more popular. It's basically stabilizing the wood by mimicking the aging process.
I have a 1980 Guild Acoustic Rosewood. Dumb question: Should I be storing it in a case with a humidifier to prevent warping? So far it has not warped in a California climate.
rmdatv petrification requires mineral replacement
I too could listen to Dave for hours, but I have a difference of opinion on lacquer finishes. They do not allow a guitar to "breathe." Breathing is taking in and expelling air. What lacquer actually does is allow moisture, not air, to enter and leave the guitar. I am an amateur builder, and I build a solidbody for myself every couple of years. I have used lacquer once in the past (spray cans) and I hated the smell and will no longer use it because of the smell, the health risks, and the lack of durability. My current choice is Minwax wipe-on poly. Two thin coats and I could not be happier with the results. I have owned and played both lacquer and poly finished guitars, and I honestly can't hear any difference. My hearing is excellent. When driving in my car I am always the first one to hear a siren. I can hear it even before my kids do. I am a retired Navy sonar technician, and my hearing was checked on a regular basis.
Also, a possible solution for players of 24 3/4 inch scale guitars might be using the new big core strings offered by a number of companies these days. These strings have noticeably more tension and stay in tune better than conventional core strings.
Anyways, I am not trying to piss you off or get under your skin. Your knowledge is clearly light-years beyond mine. I am just offering a few thoughts based on my own observations.
Gibson can't get good wood anymore? I've been having the same issue lately.
eJacob Cornelius they have the same access to materials as the competition. That’s such a management cop out.....
Try eating vegetables.
So eJacobCornelus, how does your age compare to Gibson's age?
@@rogerloydmccoy warmoth has good wood, allparts, etc.
They make a pill for that
I don't buy the wood argument. Look at PRS. They use traditional tonewoods. They have models at all reasonable price points plus a custom shop. Quality is high at each price point. Shows what happens when you pay attention.
I recently traded my 2015 LP at a guitar shop for a new PRS S2 Mira semi-hollow. I paid a few bucks in the transaction. The G-Force tuner on the Les never worked right and broke strings. I had Grover locking tuners put on it. I traded because old injuries have made it painful to play the heavy LP, and the PRS is about half the weight, much easier to play (better upper fret access), stays in tune, has a broader tonal range, and is more resonant. To be fair, the LP sounded great like a Les Paul should, but it was a beast to play. At about $1,300, the PRS is a far better deal. I wish I could afford a PRS private stock guitar. PRS still has lots of that great maple with stunning grain. I agree with MultiInstrument Guy that you can get a fine U.S.-made PRS that looks good and performs well at any price point from about $1,000 through the $13,000 private stock (custom shop) models. The materials, tuners, pickups, aesthetics...always high quality.
With PRS having the founder at the helm makes all the difference, Paul has an amazing passion not only for His products but guitars and amps in general.I have met Paul and his enthusiasm is infectious.He simply looking loves what He does & obviously understands his market very well.from the SE guitar line right up to private stock they are all great guitars. It's a great shame with Gibson & I truly hope a buy out and change of leadership can happen ,but I think the hole may be too deep 😢
The difference is that Paul Reed Smith is a musician that understands how to run a guitar company and has guitars people can actually afford.
Even on the low end, epi has maintained an inventory of mahogany, rosewood and ebony, so I know it's still readily available. I've even been able to easily aquire standard tonewoods for guitars that I've built in my shop.
sorry but they chose the bad wood on purpose. It's way cheaper and if you're the head of a company that is working at the stock market you're only interested in numbers that have a big plus. Sorry but the thing with him beeing a guitarist is total bullshit. this guy can't even play.
For anyone complaining hard about the prices, you should note that adjusted for inflation, a 1959 Les Paul Standard (actually $269 then...) was $2350 . The same model goes for $2499 these days brand new. This doesn't even account for the exponentially increasing costs over the last half century in wood and labor. It's very hard to make money selling guitars. Gibson was NEVER a company selling guitars for 'the working guy' or anything like that. They were always super-luxury guitars.
The problem is people's wages have not kept up with inflation.
But their problem was selling their modern( LP, SG, and Bass) guitars with antiquated bridges, quality control issues, and unreliable solder jobs on top of the luxury price. Especially with PRS on the rise.
@@Enjoimaschine Epiphone value increased as Gibson dragged itself down
I got an sgj in 2014 for 500 new, that’s not possible today all of em are over a grand . Not to mention all those tribute 60/70/80 models, a lot of those were good if u sat down st the store, many were amazing and didn’t have the crap laqcuer, they should keep doing that, those guitars were very unique sounding
@@heythere6983 Agreed, I love my 2014 SGJ, bare bones rock machines.
I’m lucky enough to own a Gibson but it took some serious energy to save for it. They seriously need to get their prices down and get back to making top quality instruments.
Breaks my heart. I love Les Pauls but screw Gibson for making it impossible for the vast majority of musicians to own one. When I went big I bought a PRS Custom 24 and was WAY more impressed with it than a Les Paul Custom at a significantly higher price point.
On the topic of people playing bad instruments well: My sister, who went to Juilliard pre-college for doublebass, did her audition on a plywood bass. She still got in because the teachers could tell how good she was. So yeah -- ultimately a terrific musician can make any instrument sound good.
Not true at all
The CEO of Gibson did what a lot of (stupid) CEOs do.. He created a ton of debt to open up what he thought would be growth areas for Gibson, but it didn't fly as he expected. This left Gibson with a ton of debt and very little way to pay it off. Raising prices on your products in these situations doesn't cut it because your prices also are related to the demand for your product (this is basic economics in play). Yes.. if the demand stays the same you get more money.. but there is no guarantee that a price change will result in more revenue, precisely because you are impacting your demand with the price change.
To me, the first rule of running a business is, never ever create so much debt that if your idea doesn't play out you can't recover from it. This is the rule Gibson broke and now the entire company is at risk. Its very sad, but its where they are.
I'm not expert on guitars, but I've followed this story since my interest is business. And many companies over the years have made this same mistake, generally to quite catastrophic results.
Debt can be a useful tool in your toolbox for creating growth in a business, but you must plan for things going badly, otherwise the tool will cut you badly.
Exactly. That's the main reason they are in trouble, Henry got too overzealous with investment opportunities, and they've yet to make a return on that investment.
The QC with the guitars and the quality can be easily fixed, but to fix the issues Gibson has now, you'd need to get rid of the CEO and find one that won't get overzealous with spending and bring the company to ruin.
and gibson was already pushing the upper limits of the market (for regular people) to begin with.
As a certain orange fellow has found out.And it's taking out his friends too.
Your perspective on this issue is good.
This is the problem with publicly traded companies- they are beholden to shareholders who demand growth to ensure that their return on investment is juicy. Growth for growth’s sake is never a good idea.
And in the end ...A thousand dollar guitar player ... playing a fifty dollar guitar ..will always sound better than ...a fifty dollar guitar player ... playing a thousand dollar guitar 😎🎸
True. But if you can afford it. A good guitar made with decent old growth wood constructed by a skilled luthier will help inspire you every time your fingers do the walking.
This is very true. I've played the guitar for over a decade and picking up a Les Paul and playing sounds way better than when I home and play on my $400 Ibanez. But, don't get me wrong, Ibanez makes very good guitars for the price.
Case in point, Jack Pearson on a Squier.
hear, hear..
That would be absolutely correct, good point.
I'm 50 in a couple of months and for the first time in my life I can afford a new Gibson Les Paul Standard. The problem is I don't want one of the current ones, and I think that says a lot.
Same with me. I could afford two Gibson (banjos) 1928 and 1937 . A newer one? Not interested
J'ai 56 ans et je pense la même chose , j'ai une Gibson les Paul traditional HB 2012 payer 2000 euros que j'ai transformer en 59 custom shop fait maison et sa sonne , pour la transformer aux moins 600 euros de plus, elle est à 90% du model custom-shop Gibson, total 2600 euros au lieu 3500 et plus:
Cars, music instruments, diamond rings are all inflated more than their worth.
Eastern Cowboy Guns too.
Most cars on the lower end are not inflated more than their worth. Ford doesn't make much on Fiestas. They make a ton on their trucks though. Gibson tried to ride their name for years and years, and are now paying the piper. I had a 1978 The Paul Firebrand that wasn't as nice as my 1979 Peavey T-60, just like my $6500 Weber mandolin kicks a $15000 Gibson Fern's arse
Buy a top notch pedal steel and you will find a killer value!
Fake boobs, too!
The Ford Fiesta example is funny. Ford has announced they will stop selling cars all together (except Mustang) soon and only make SUVs and trucks.
Every time Dave says “you know” Take a shot you’ll be wasted in 39 minutes
Just a couple of minutes into him talking about fingerboards and he's already said 'you know' at least five times! LOL.
I'm pretty sure even if you took a shot every time he said "you know" you'd die.
They also discontinued cakewalk Sonar development, which has really fried me personally as that is my favorite DAW since I started using various DAWs over the last few years. All we got was a sudden notice that development will stop. No pre warning leading up to this. So as a subscriber for rolling updates for a year, the rest of the time I had paid for is up in the dirt. Screw huge corporations IMHO. They just ruin things. I should know, I delt with one when I worked for a sample dev company.
Switch to Reaper and be happy :)
Tried the demo version and routing Vienna Ensemble is not working so far. The routing system is tricky. Should give it another try though as eventually Sonar, like all Windows versions, will eventually stop working. However I doubt it will be for a few years.
Yep, I still use Cakewalk as a tape machine and print to it during mastering. Done so for the past 10 years.
Still use CW Sonar Pro. Never cared for Gibson, but once they tanked CW I never want to see that name brand again. POS company.
That’s how I’m feeling about Cake Walk as well! ...and corporate just about anything.
I own a 2015 Epiphone Casino and am very happy with it. The Gibsons I own are a '78 'The Paul' and an '85 Les Paul Studio 'Standard.' I'm good with these three representations. Sad to see such an iconic name go down.
Mine's a 2013. LOVE it! It came with garbage fretwork, but most guitars do anyway - level, crown & polish fixed that. Installed Planet Waves 18:1 trim locks, and it's rock steady now. Tried the Pyramid Gold flatwounds, and I love them so they're staying. Final and best thing I did is Jason Lollar Dogears - they sound unreal. I own roughly 30 guitars, and this is the one I play 99% of the time. The Lollars take it from a 6/10 to a 10/10.
Well most are saying that the newer guitars are trash....
I have a 79 The Paul. Bought it new for $350 with a hardshell case. Still play it everyday and still sounds great. Ebony fretboard, grover tuners.Below the radar gem
ocan1033 My 1st guitar I got when I was 13 was a 79 The Paul with mods but I lost it being young and dumb some years back. I'd do anything to get it back. Could be bc I grew up playing it but I love the way it played better than any non-Gibson I've played. I haven't played any Epiphone but I was wondering how the better ones compare with Gibsons feel/playing style?
You guys really hit the nail on the head. I have a 1998 Les Paul Joe Perry sig (smoke burst) guitar. I got it from my mother (she bought it used then for $1800) for my high school graduation in 2001. I still have it today. I've modded it by putting locking Grover tuners on it, a reissue dirty fingers pickup in the bridge position, and a string butler on it just so the thing may stay in tune (spoiler alert, it doesn't even with graphite in the bone nut). The thing weights as much as an anvil. However, I love the tone and the way it plays. I was gigging with the thing for years and it literally gave me back problems. I had to tune after every song (and sometimes during a song break when I was tacet). I now only play strats and teles live and I have to tune them once; at the beginning of the set and they're good barring some unforeseen bump into a cymbal or my lead guitar player. They play great, sound great and guess what? I don't have back problems anymore. I will always have that guitar for recording, but that's all it's used for; and I'm tuning it every take. It's really sad, Gibson is literally known in pop culture as this amazing machine....I actually was going to buy a Gibson Songwriter deluxe for my acoustic gigs, but I bought a Martin instead because the Gibson's action was stupid high (I know it could be fixed), but the Martin just sat well in my hands (for almost 800$ less) and it was almost perfect right off the wall hanger in Guitar Center.
Yes, there is still live music. There is lots in western NC & upstate SC.
Q: Is Gibson done? A: Yep!
The Quality Control is horrible ...Ive seen 59 CS Les Pauls where they simply forgot to File the nut. Absolute Unplayable...On a 5K Guitar?
Good discussion, another aspect of the story is that amps and effects have come a long way. When all is said and done not many people can hear the difference between a bone nut and a composite nut, which makes the most important aspect about guitars to me being feel and price point. I am surprised more hasn't been done in the evolution of guitar pickups like making them easier to swap out, which can have an audible tone change
there is such companies that make swappable pickups. can't recall names but a google search will yield satisfactory results
The price is very high in no small part because they're using the profitable part of the business to service the debt on the stupid parts.
crimfan Came here to say THIS! Leaving satisfied. I believe there is a viable business underneath the steaming pile of crud on their balance sheet. They should have recalled the days of CBS-Fender and realized that loading up on debt and vertically integrating doesn't work.
Not just junked out guitars, but all the stupid branded consumer electronics and other lifestyle junk.
It's a classic problem. Vertical integration often sounds great but it's much harder to pull off than many suppose when the leadership doesn't understand the newly acquired businesses. Lots of companies have all sorts of side deals, people sucking at the teat, etc. I bet Gibson has a bunch. I'd be really surprised if the stupid side businesses aren't full of mediocre relatives and ex-spouses on the payroll, and so on. It takes a special kind of idiot to come up with Les Paul themed studio monitors.
Short of getting sold and having a hard housecleaning, this won't change.
Example: My dad used to be the general manager of a company. He did a bunch of cost/benefit analysis and showed pretty strongly that about half the business didn't make money, essentially that the profitable parts of the business were subsidizing parts that were breaking even at best. He went to the people above him and presented the case for selling those parts of the business and focusing on the parts that made more money while looking for other avenues for investment, which would have dropped the capitalization of the company. Nope, evidently the owner preferred to hang out with the higher capitalization people and be viewed as an "innovator", so they let yet another GM go. I'm sure the previous GM had said much the same thing a few years before!
This happens way more often than people think.
When you brought up the well-known tuning issues that brought back an interesting memory. Years ago I was at a Led Zeppelin concert and Jimmy Page was constantly fiddling around with his tuning pegs. I assumed it was just part of his well-known bizarre playing technique until I figured out that he was tuning his guitar in the middle of songs.
Two years ago I bought a Gibson J45 Cutaway brand new. It marked the 25th year since I started playing. I said if I am getting a new acoustic I am getting what I want. I have no regrets on that purchase. In two years time I’ll be 40 and I want a Gibson Les Paul Standard. I just hope the price doesn’t get driven up to much between now and then.
great format for this video. love the conversation type format!
Most of the debt we are talking about has nothing to do with guitars. The guitar line will survive.
The other elephant in the room is the significant different in material and labor costs between fender guitars and gibson guitars. As a woodworker, I think it's plainly obvious why a standard les paul costs $3000 when a standard strat costs $1500. But every dipshit in the UA-cam comment section who has never tried make anything with their own two hands is basically "why isn't making a set neck guitar exactly as easy as making a bolt on neck guitar" and my eyes roll out of my skull.
I have a Les Paul and a Strat. One thing that shocked me was the quality of the Korean PRS SE. I bought one for about $500 secondhand. Amazing guitar.
You got lucky, I’ve seen mainly horrible SE’s.
@@samblack5313 I still ahve it but also have an American one now.
Plus point: your PRS was amazing quality.
Minus point: it had those fuckwit birds on the fretboard.
Since I was young I would just put the idea of buying a Gibson out of my mind ,and that's my Gibson experience.
Bingo.
How old is this? Rhett has just recently declared this is The Golden Age of Guitars. And he’s 100% correct.
You know, guys, I have had a ton of Gibson and Epiphone guitars over the last 30 years and I've - honest to God - never had any issues with the tuning stability of any instrument that wasn't a direct result of a poor setup or a badly cut nut.
It kills me that "Epiphone" is not pronounced like "Epiphany". Would have been a much cooler brand.
So it kills you that an O is not an A? That is fucking odd.
no one tell @@xzysyndrome the word Phonetic exists he'll have a fit
It's called Epiphone because the founder's son was nicknamed Epi. I prefer that part of history in the brand over a general word like Epiphany.
Just go for Epitaph and get an instant strike from King Crimson.
i have a 97 les paul standard and i put locking grovers on it. stays in tune like a champ. zero issues.
PRS SE stepped in and filled that $550-$700 price point and mine has been a great guitar now for 10 years.
They're back! Just bought a 2020 Les Paul! It's sweet!
I had a 2018 standard. Wanted a lp standard my whole life. It was, eh. Traded it for a Martin acoustic and never felt bad about it. Won't buy another gibson.
@@user-qt5eh9wb7g That poor guy just spent a load crap of money in a "new" Gibson. Be more sensitive, please.
@@hifive7366 bro 2020 Gibson is actually good.
it is not, it is still more expensive than most people's mortgage payments which makes unreachable
Love classic Gibson guitars, but I wouldn't dream of buying a new one now. I've tried picking them up at music stores throughout the past decade.. Absolutely unplayable junk! Epiphone has surpassed Gibson, and it's really not even close now..
I have a late model 90's Manny's Music Gibson faded special and a Paul Reed Smith Abalone inlay $3000.00 w/ Macarty pickups and I play the Gibson all day long. Swapped out the pickups and sanded the neck. Plays like a dream. I love that faded special.
One of my favorite guitars is my 2015 Gibson Les Paul studio that is a single cutaway, dual HB, with dot inlays and fretboard binding that I got brand new from GC for $700. It was on sale that week only and was regularly $999. That said, a buddy of mine has bought about 5 different Les Paul standards and studios since then trying to find one that plays like mine. He hasn’t yet which is outrageous! He’s spent tons on them and I wouldn’t even play one of them, they suck so bad. My 2008 Les Paul standard is also an excellent, excellent, guitar I bought at Best Buy brand new for $1,800.
What is it in the guitars that makes your buddy's LP's suck? Any idea?
“Don’t get me started on relicing.”
Ok I would really like to see this episode. 🤘
The whole company needs to be "reliced" imo.
i have a self tuner 2015 Paul . The self tuner blows, i removed within hours ) . But why i bought the 2015 Paul is because it has a wider nut which for larger hands /fingers can make playing easier . Plus mini humbuckers , Love them , and a switch for single coil , which I've always add to my other pauls , and a +10 db switch for solo's .
Quality control and customer service are a joke with Gibson these days. True story. I'm at a music store in St. Louis, Mo and I see a Gibson mandolin. It's back was not matched and there was a space or crack between the two back pieces. I asked the guy what was going on, why hadn't they sent it back. This is a very reputable music store. The guy tells me, "We called Gibson and told them about it, asked them to replace it, etc. Gibson told us flat out, 'someone will buy it, it's a Gibson.". Gibson refused to replace it. So the store has it on display, marked down to a laughable price and uses it as a cautionary tale.
Another true story. A different music store in Missouri. I see a two ES335s on the wall and see a "Price Reduced" tag on both. No other Gibsons in the store. Hmm, strange, these guys used to sell Gibbies all the time. So I ask the guy what the deal is. He said they have had more complaints and returns from Gibson purchasers in the past couple of years than in the previous decades since they have been open. These two 335s were the last Gibsons to go through that store, and they also had noticible flaws. The store said until Gibson earns back their reputation and fixes their quality control issues, they will not be selling Gibsons anymore.
To me Gibsons are priced on their reputation from decades ago. Now, it's over priced, under quality checked, mass produced mediocrity.
Like GM.
Maybe Epiphone is having the last laugh.
From what I understand, Epiphone is part of Gibson, essentially their brand for lower cost guitars, just as Squire is for Fender. If this is the case, they are in this together (unless Gibson decides to sell the Epiphone brand ...)
@@danielwustenberg4107 What I believe Penelope meant was that Epiphone were originally a smaller company to Gibson, but growing fast, and made superior guitars. In order to get rid of the competition, Gibson simply bought them and stripped out their expertise. That doesn't sit right with a lot of people.
Stathopoulos sends his regards
I bought an Epiphone Sheraton in all white back in '96--my first electric purchase. I have loved her every day since. I would have always loved to own an ES-335 but WAY too expensive which essentially led me to become a Tele player on the higher end of spectrum....
Well, Ibanez is having the last laugh, getting sued in the 70s and now doing way better than the "original"
It's certainly on it's dying days with the introduction of the Beato signature model...
Another factor that everyone ignores is that Gibson is ignoring modern metal players. I dont want to spend 3000$ on a guitar that immediately needs new pickups and a complete setup by a luthier. It’s really great that boomers love thier gibsons but Gibson has hung everyone else out to dry. I’ve found the answer to crappy Gibson is an amazing PRS.
Sure if you play blues or classic rock, which was the whole point of my post. Ignoring modern metal players.
Yup.. all of my material written in Eb or C#, and im looking at the PRS SVN to go with my Ibanez 7 string for drop A and B standard tunings.
Mr. Dude mark holcomb? mikael åkerfeldt?
PRS have amazing pickups for metal
Antares haha the guy is old does not know Periphery and Opeth haha
The have an incompetent owner/CEO who is beyond clueless about the guitar business. That's all you really need to know.
Neal B hewed clueless about the banjo business too in 1996 and now they are done
Neal B he's also clueless about endangered species … surprised they didn't make a guitar with elephant tusk inlays and rhino horn nuts.
Total insanity with this guy. Dump his ass while they still can.
They are. When the bankruptcy proceedings are done, Henry may still be involved with the company in some manner (minority owner, perhaps), but he'll no longer be calling the shots. A whole new management team will be in place. Hopefully, folks who understand the guitar business.
Thinking it's to late. The damage is done. Dealers are dropping this brand line quicker then a hot coal.
I started to play learning on my Dad's '66 Fender Mustang when I was 11, in '88.
I think I'll never buy a Gibson, unless it was a very good deal in a vintage one. That politic of not improving anything because of "tradition" is utterly stupid when in fact they have changed A LOT over the years. So, you can sandwich whatever the crap you have at hand to make a body, chamber it to make it lighter, but you can't change the angle of the headstock to prevent damages or change the scale of your instruments to improve tunning stability because of "tradition". Gibson deserves bankrupcy.
Gibson's are just to damn expensive . They,be priced themselves rite out or the market .
The custom shop reissues do go up in value over time. I was gifted a 1960 Les Paul Cherry Sunburst Reissue from a record company back in 1989. They paid around $1,200 for it back then, which was expensive at that time. I played it quite a bit when I was performing, then put it away for 20 years. I recently sold it for $4,500. I also got a 1989 SJ-200 (I believe it was a custom model) they bought for me for around $900. I sold it around 1996 for around $1,000. What would that guitar be worth in good condition today? At least $3,000 I would imagine.
These guys are the real deal. Gibson must hate them for telling it like it is.
its time for big G to take their medicine...then sit down for a 7 course dinner of crow. Arrogant, ignorant dipshits -full stop
yeah, what would be good, is hearing what all the old hands who work in the factories think?
No the repairman makes factual errors and obscures them colloquialisms and unrelated tangents.
If the Gibson leadership had any brains they'd hire these guys.
This episode should be called “How I Saved Gibson”. You and you buddy’s gave them their billion dollar business model for nothing. Maybe they should sponsor your brilliant blog now!
I never noticed the cut just after 1:33 before, and I’ve watched this video like 4 times. Really slick editing.
Why aren’t people considering there’s just enough guitars around. 60 years of dozens of companies mass producing will create enough supply, especially for a product that will last indefinitely. There’s enough guitars lying around, there’s not much a reason to buy a new one.
Interesting point. I guess the same could be said about cars running for 10+ years. Yet somehow cars continue to be mass manufactured in record numbers. The market can sustain the supply because it is not one single price point (user).
The video seems to make a lot of sense on issues with the supply side. I believe demand is there for the right price point. Do not forget most guitarist own more that one guitar.
Instead of vertically integrating, Gibson should have used the proceeds from their bonds to buy and shelve their competition.
Thomas FitzGibbon exactly my thought! Thousands and thousands of great used guitars that are now available on the internet. Why buy new?
LMAO... when a guy chooses a name that has anything to do with possums, you know he's rural !! For the self-reliant man the world is your oyster ! When SHTF the self-reliant man will be finding solutions while the sucklers wail and cry. Did you happen to read the Northerner, Ralph Waldo Emerson's "Self Reliance" in your youth? In any event it's always a blessing coming across a self-reliant person in this sea of teet-sucklers, LOL. Best Regards Mate!
Thomas FitzGibbon yes there may be many well functioning guitars from the past. but the worlds population is growing like crazy! we are now 7,6 billion people in the world. in 1955 the worlds population was only 2,7 billion.
I absolutely agree with everything you guys said here. I’ve been preaching for a long time about Gibson making only their core guitars, and concentrating on making them GOOD. I play a Les Paul Studio from 2013, and before that I played an SG Standard from 2008. I’ve been extremely lucky that both of them were fabulous and played excellent. Great video.
I would say the PRS wave started even earlier. One of my favorite mainstream bands, 311, was using PRS back in the early-mid 90s. Also, Carlos Santana. Lot of 90s garage band players seaked those PRS's way before the new metal wave in the late 90s early 00s. The college rock bands circuiting around those same years (early-mid 90s) also many of those players were adopting PRS. As a player, the lower action you could get on a PRS was also a huge plus, and they were so durable, light and just got you closer to expression without thinking about an instrument in the way. I still have my 92' CE24. To this day, it's just an amazing instrument.
The wood is the one of most unimportant reasons Gibson is in financial trouble.
Yeah charging $3,000 for a used J-200. Fuck them. Gibson cant make any money because they decided to take the exclusivity route for their products. Instead of pricing them at a reasonable price so average joes could actually afford them and give Gibson business, they decided to put it all in the name. Kind of like Apple.
apple may be overpriced (like gibson) but their QC is very very good (not like gibson at all)
Whenever I hear guitarist talking abotu wood, I'm ready for a pure bullshit session. The pickups are where the sound comes from, plain and simple. They have guitars made out of acrylic, fiber glass, and carbon fiber. If they have good pickups, you get a good sound. End of discussion.
The most important part of an electric guitar are pick ups ,a nice action and a good amp to go with it and a nice chorus and overdrive facility included on the pre amp, a Squier tele for a 100 bucks and a Roland amp for about the same price will set anyone up nicely and inexpensively and thats it!, period! just dont listen to those arsehole guitar snobs , wood! my arse
Spot on and these self same dickheads go on about saving rainforests ( Duh! , where the fuck do they think wood comes from) and the environment when there not bullshitting about wood being the most important component of a guitar, ironic eh! but these are the kind of wankers your dealing with
How hard is it to make 5 models of guitar, and make 3 options of each. Traditional, modern, cheap.
Les Paul.
Es 335
Sg
Flying V
Double cut.
Excellent info about why slack key tunings aren't for shorter scale length guitars or for guitar companies who don't understand why double basses are huge and violins are small.
Gibson is missing out on the $500-800 market for sure. If Gibson started producing quality instruments outside of the USA at a good price people would buy it. Fender along with many other manufacturers have proven you don't need made in USA on the headstock anymore. Just make sure they are quality before going to market.
Ahhhhh Epiphone?
Doesn't have Gibson's weight BUT they are regarded as decent entry / semi pro guitars that mirror the Gibson range. I have a 2016 Epi Casino and it's a decent guitar, holds tune, had no issues with build. Great through a Marshall. Oasis recorded their multi-million selling debut album Definitely Maybe on Epiphone guitars.
I think epiphone has it's place but it shouldn't be taking up the $500+ market. Not because they're bad guitars but the fact is brands sell guitars and epiphone is a lesser brand in that regard. At the end of the day epiphone is a Gibson copy. Whether it's warranted or not people would choose a Gibson les paul for $700 over an epiphone that looks exactly the same for $700. Every single time.
Or Orville... Just make sure that you can compete with PRS SE, because THAT is the price range that SELLS.
Korean Epiphones were better than the later ones.
Go to manufacturers like Samick, Cort, World... and you'll get good guitars at a reasonable price.
On top of that, Japanese Orville guitars for let's say €899-1299.- could be interesting and have them made by companies like Fuji Gen and Terada.
every time i hear the words gretch white falcon, i can feel shivers run down my spine
Why not make them similar to the latest China Epiphone inspired by. I have a LP Standard and an ES339 that tune up fine and stay in tune. I don’t need an expensive guitar. I’d love to have a Gibson made guitar though.👍😊
I have a Gibson Epiphone special thats great. I have a son thats an amazing player but your right ; we can't pay alot for a nice guitar. The $500 to $750 range is a good target because it's hard for us to even come up with this. Great video
especially if you want to have more than one, and cases aren't cheap either
If price dictates if a guitar is good then EVH did it wrong, because he built his famous guitar from seconds that were sitting in a bin
Thanks for the candid take on the topic, gentlemen.
I have a 89 Les Paul studio, made in Nashville with an ebony fret board, carved maple top! It plays and sound amazing. Only mods are cream pickup frames, pick guard, pickup switch, and changed the knobs to top hats!….. did I say ebony!
Exactly! I work at gc and maaaannnnn the quality control is bogus and to get something good it's $4000 and up! Make great guitars in the 1-2000 and y'all will be fine!
Just Marvin not necessarily kiesel makes great guitars 1-2000 made in America. I got one on the way end of march.
I'm just a beginner, (knowing absolutely nothing about guitar I am a flutist all my life and just now (I'm 54) entering the guitar world)
and after this, I will shy away from Gibson because of the scale length issue. And I'm a fan of Zakk Wylde who made the Les Paul famous for his drop D tuneings, now i have to re-think pursuing a Les Paul and think about another brand. THANK YOU\m/\m/ Rock ON!
SlippstersVideos You can't go wrong with a PRS if you want quality and to drop tune.
Scale length issue??? 😂😂😂 there is none!!! Don’t listen to these idiots talking about scale lengths!!! 😂😂😂🙄 millions of smaller length scale guitars have been sold Fender has them Jazzmasters and mustangs too don’t listen to these crackpots!!!😂😂
Scale length is subjective. It is much easier to bend notes on a shorter scale guitar. Plus it will handle heavier guage strings and still be very playable. I thought the break angle was the cause of the tuning problem. But i don't detune so ... Just ignore me.
I have 3 Gibson guitars, 1 LP classic from 2002, 1 ES335 dot from 2013 and a SG std from 2015. The only one that has tuning issues is the SG, and I blame that on the robot tuners, not the scale length. (the others have traditional tuners)
I have a custom shop logo on my 1990 LP custom that looks like a Randy Rhoads copy..i cant seem to find much info on this, where is the custom shop located ? and do they have a logo they use?
GIBSON: Hire musicians / experts (like these fine gentlemen) to review concepts BEFORE putting them into production... please.
the chinese "gibsones" are not made in the same factory as epiphone. Gibson have their own factory for epiphone.
Nicolas Rebagliati Gibson hires almost any Chinese factory to make epiphone. They have gone through a lot of factories in the last 10 to 20 years. After they make epis, they keep making them (without any quality control, and with Gibson logos.).
Remley that’s an old myth. Gibson have their factory in china since 2003 for build epiphones. Gibson used other factories like samick when they used to build in korea. And I think they use other factories for indonesia too. But not china
Two things.
First… the wood they started with wasn’t necessary hand selected old growth… it was just what they COuLd get. They didn’t have a lot of choices at the time since guitars weren’t the primary buyers of wood. Furniture makers got the choice bits back then. They got leftovers. (But it was still good old growth)
Second, if you want your new acoustic to have that “50 year old warmth” there’s a luthier trick.
Place a 10” speaker over the hole and turn on the radio… for 2 months.
After 2 months your guitar will have 50 years worth of vibrations in it and will sound pretty close to what the old ones sound like. 😎
What's the deal with Gibson?
The company is runned by a CEO,who has no fucking clue about what guitarists want and is trying to turn the company into a ''lifestyle company''.
Gibson is selling overprized crap,plain and simple.Their quality control is a total joke,they sell guitars with fretboards made out of Richlite(for those who don't know this is a synthetic material,essentially superhardened pap-mache),for thousands of Dollars, when even S.Korean ''budget'' guitars have proper ebony boards.They try to pass gimmicks like these stupid robot-tuners as ''innovations'',instead of implementing real innovations in guitar building,like putting a freaking volute joint between the neck and the headstock,something that even cheap ''Chibsons'' have and that is cheap,works in order to strengthen the headstock and is used for decades by everybody else in the business.
For the price of a new, production Gibson L/P Custom,you can actually custom build a guitar,to your specs with various smaller companies like Mayones or Kiesel.
Wow... I didn't know about Richlite...Wtf does that look like? And how does it handle humidity changes. I'm thinking in high humidity it would adversely affect tuning and moreso the aspect of swelling and shrinkage leaving sharp edges around the fret ends. Just the thought they are/were using compressed paper makes me want to go else where immediately.
Mickeyislowd martin uses it on their mexican made guitars.i have 2 of them a 000rs1 and a dreadnaught junior. both are nice guitars especially for the money.i live in Florida and after hurricane Irma hit my power was out for a week.High humidity with no air conditioning didnt seem to affect either fretboard. its a nice material feels and looks kind of sort of like ebony but obviously its not.I guess time will tell how it holds up.
I was thinking over a long period of time too. Hope it stays solid and Florida is a good test zone...lol.
When I was in Korea visiting my S. Korean wife's family, we were in Seoul and came upon an entire multi-level mall devoted to only guitar stores...my wife was bored but I was in heaven lol!
I actually think another guitar company will end up buying Gibson! Despite their financial problems they are one of the biggest names in guitars!I don’t believe they will just go bankrupt and fall off the face of the planet!
Let's hope some outfit doesn't just buy the rights to the name and put it on a lot of t-shirts and other paraphernalia rather than producing guitars.
How did Donald Trump find this thread? THEY'RE THE BEST GUITARS EVER! Other guitars are SAD!
Hey, thanks for mentioning the ES 175 (39:50). I've got an all blond 1954 ES 175 original finish that is an absolutely beautiful instrument.
Regarding the tuning problem - I get the D/G issue with the strings pulling to the side and binding in the saddle and the big pull-back on the headstock. I don't understand how the shorter scale would be implicated on tuning stability.
Yeah, he's wrong about a few technical details. Wood, intonation / scale length, and finish. 335, 345, 330, etc... they're all friggin' plywood dude. As far as necks, the grain orientation makes a huge difference. A quartersawn neck with straight grain will be more rigid, and far less prone to headstock breaks.
He's not wrong, it has to do with intonation. But the quality of the build has to be the main issue here, they are making crap guitars now.. I'll take that guy's opinion over a random person in the comment section.
@@TheDyingScotsman With me it's not a right or wrong question but rather (my) skull thickness - I don't understand how the overall scale of the guitar would contribute to intonation problems all other things being equal; understood that shorter scale decreases overtone content etc and is bad for tuning down (this is presumably why the low b-string on my 5-string bass sounds so dull - I call it the special effects string). FWIW I've been a Gibson fan since forever but to me there's been something wrong there going on ten years or so that I've been aware - the robot guitar being a particularly embarrassing episode. Several years ago at Winter NAMM the Gibson room was a casino(!) with baccarat, craps, poker, etc.; they handed out play money. There was basically one rack of product in the whole room. I walked away wondering what the tacit tag line was supposed to be - "take a chance with Gibson"? "lose your shirt with Gibson"? Another year there was a rack of what looked like ES335 prototypes with a single-coil pickup tacked in between the buckers - extremely rough work with exposed wiring and the guy working the area had no idea what they were.
When I was 12-13 my grandma gave me her old acoustic. She said she saved up for a couple of weeks about 20-30 years prior working a junk job to buy it. I'm 21 now and I still play it almost every day. I've had friends ask me why I play such an old piece of "junk" but it's the guitar that's always inspired me. It an old Takamine G series. I'm mainly a blues/folk guy and will ALWAYS play this guitar. I love it like I love her. These guys are right, Gibson may not always make the best stuff anymore, but most importantly play what you love. Play what inspires you. Hell play what you can get your hands on. Thanks again Memaw for showing me my first four chords.
OK, I'm glad to see this; I was on my way to buy a J-200 acoustic, but now I've got second thoughts. I really want a high-quality guitar because I'm tired of playing the overseas boxes under $1K that just aren't good enough.
Hmm. Are they dragging Epiphone down the drain with them? They made reasonable guitars a guy could actually afford. My Korean built Dot is an eminently decent guitar.
I'll take my AJ-28S to my grave. Had a corian bridge installed, which REALLY woke it up.
in my experience, the Korean made Epi's are way better than the chinese ones...
Epiphone has always held their own when it comes to making great guitars. Their fortunes should not be tied to the behemoth that Gibson has become.
I have a Korean Epiphone les paul custom pro and it is very well made.
Kaman music owns Epiphone. Gibson sold epiphone years ago.
I'm glad I have 4 Terada built Epiphones. The Elitist series of Epiphones is Gibson high end product for a fraction of the cost.
I took the robo tuners off my Gibson and replaced them with real tuners. It's much better now. Those Robo tuners were a pain in the ass.
I like those tuners - very handy - any different from a pedal on the floor?
Well, there was no obvious path to the sequence of buttons that you had to press so you have to refer back to the card if you forget the sequence. Even then, there was no particularly obvious rationale for the sequence of button pushing. I am usually really good with computers but this was an exercise in frustration. If one string is out of tune, I don't want to have to go through a whole string of buttons to retune my entire guitar. It's easier to just manually tune that string. I also don't like trusting a computers judgement to tuning, since there are slight differences in tuning that you might want depending on where on the neck you are predominantly playing that you might want to manually adjust for.
and if I recall, after i got used to the robo tuners, it was a whole new giant pain in the ass to change the strings. I found it was much faster and easier to install locking tuners, and a little plastic device to rapidly turn the key.
It's fine to love them. But Gibson would have been better off selling it as an option, rather than forcing it on people who don't want that option.
dezert fox If you are going to call someone out for being “to stupid” at least demonstrate grammar beyond a third grade level. That is TOO ironic!