I imagine to most Americans, talk about the underground sounds something like this "At pennywhistle station and watercress court down the old spannywaist has a pindlestiff at the brumley and Falstaff greengrocer. Tittertwat and piffle register for the jaunty morning waistcoat. Follow the balderdash and kindly mind the wainscoting!"
@@alstorer Speaking of the New York Subway, and in the context of this story, there is a similar abandoned line that ends at 99 Schermerhorn Street Brooklyn NY (now the site of the New York Transit Museum.) It has an interesting history. Worth a visit for any tourist visiting NYC.
No problem understanding the presentation really at all... but then again I'm in Boston MA area and having the oldest subway system in the country we're kind of use to weird complexities, unconnected lines, disused or missing stations etc.
On my last visit to London a couple years ago, I stayed near the Highbury & Islington stop, and used this line quite a few times. I knew something felt "off" about it - a "National Rail" line, with full-size trains, but in a tube that looked like the Underground - and finally, this video has explained it!
I have heard of Moorgate Protection. There are timers on the tracks on the approaches to terminal stations which require three reductions in speed and if a train goes through one before it should, the brakes on the train are engaged.
They had the technology to implement a system similar to this in the mid '70s!! They just didn't think it was necessary at Moorgate. The underground was so sloppily run in those days. I remember, as a child, it being dirty and run down!
A similar system is in effect on all terminal tracks in the New York subway system which end in bumper blocks. It has been effective in preventing trains from coming into a station at too high a speed and striking the bumper at the end of the track.
It really is a bizarre line. We get it to the Ally Pally and the first time you’re there the 80s decor makes you feel like you’re in a different time. Then a mainline train rolls in - it is just so jarring because it defies expectation. Great video as always.
Another brilliant film ! Talking of the Moorgate disaster an " old hand" on the tube told me a strange thing about it when I was a kid . Drivers used to have a regular guard , when the train came to a stop he opened the doors and wasn't concerned that the front part of the train was in the tunnel ? Reason ? the same driver had overshot the platform several times before . Also the first emergency worker on the scene was a young PC who was on duty outside the station . Years later he was first on the scene of the Marshoness pleasure boat disaster .
What I recall, from riding on this line as a child (late 1960s?) is how dimly lit the platforms in the tunnel stations were. I supposed, because British Railways lighting standards are based on lighting a station at night, and, the Underground's lighting standards are based on lighting a station in the daytime.
And the policy of Tralee and Dingle railway in west Ireland was lighting their stations at night only when 1 ) there was NO moon 2) it was cloudy ! - By hanging a paraffin lamp on a pole on their platforms !
Would definitely like to see more about the Mooregate and what those in the know think led up to this disaster. My sympathies and condolences to the families and friends of those lost.
I'm only occasionally in London (I don't live in Europe) so I think I would've gotten more out of this video if the location of this line was shown on a modern Tube map.
This is a request I’ve had a few times, so I’m going to implement it in future videos. I’m afraid I sometimes forget that not everyone is a regular Tube user.
@@Kristine1943 Oddly,, it stayed on the Tube map for many years after the transfer to the National Rail Network (then British Rail) occurred in 1975. It was finally removed in about 1992.
In 2015 I rode the tube from Tower Hill to Paddington. I do not know if we were on the Circle or District line. Because the tube was undergoing major construction, the train made what must have been an unscheduled stop and instructed anyone who was traveling to Paddington to get off the train, walk around and take the Hammersmith & City line. There were no escalators or lift. We had to walk under a huge air vent and climb a long spiral staircase, then walk through a high vaulted, dark, arched passageway where stuff was stored. There was only one dim light on the side wall. We could hardly see, but continued about 200 feet to two very large push doors to exit. We exited onto a back alley backed by a short fence and a row of low houses. The double doors had an old green light fixture over the doors. We walked to a quiet side street and turned left onto it. Across the street were several individual, tall red brick apartments in a grassy common area with a red phone booth. We walked along a large yellow brick warehouse like building 2 blocks to a main road. It was afternoon and we were terrified since no one was on either street except for one man. Across the street was a large empty field of grass and row of trees. To the left of the field was an abandoned red brick factory with a tall stack. We walked along the street past closed, Victorian, one-story brick store fronts with old painted signs in windows. No traffic, no cars, no buses, no bikes, no taxis. No modern buildings or high rises, nor people. We came upon the brightly lit rondel in this row. There was one or two turnstiles and no station attendant. The only way down to the platform was by a small elevator. No one was inside the station and we were the only ones on a small, unadorned platform with no bench, hoping to connect with Hammersmith & City line. After searching extensively, I do not find such an unpopulated neighborhood with old buildings. I want to know the name of the neighborhood and station with spiral stairs we climbed out of, and if it was an unused station with no cross over, and what is the station we entered? Thanks for any help. It's driving me crazy that I can't find it online. Eltee
As a resident of Crouch End, the abandonment of the extension plans is lamentable. But at least we have Harringay station nearby... and a nice lengthy greenway passing through the area.
I used this line in the 70s as a way of getting Arsenal from East London on a Saturday. It was always a cinderella line and wasn't there at least one station that didn't have any filling in of the tunnel rings? I seem to recall it looked unfinished? The trains always seemed faster than other lines but I put that down to the extra noise of the larger tunnels. I was travelling back to Charing Cross from Kent when I found out about Moorgate. I don't think anyone expected it to be as horrendous as it was? I bought the Evening Standard (the jacker's journal) to read about it. The news that night was awful knowing what was at the end of that station tunnel. All very sad.
When the Victoria Line was built in the 60's, as well as temporarily curtailing the line back to Drayton Park, they also diverted the northbound Moorgate/Northern City line running tunnel into a brand new platform at Highbury & Islington (the tunnels being built to the same larger dimensions as the rest of the line to enable larger stock to use it) to provide Cross platform/same level interchange with the Victoria Line in both directions. I think this is the platform you refer to as having the "unfinished" appearance, with the tunnel rings still visible. Even today, the segments on the ceiling remain uncovered, although painted a nicer shade of beige! (The original northbound Northern City Line platform at Highbury is now the southbound Victoria Line platform).
Yes, I used to go to Highbury and lived with my parents off Brick Lane, close to Arnold Circus which you've done some stuff about. To get to Arsenal I'd walk to Old Street and travel to Drayton Park which was a short walk from the station, but not as crowded as Arsenal station or the other alternatives. I also used to work in Hoxton, and did visiting duties in the N1 area, so often used to go from Old Street to Essex Road or Highbury and Islington though mostly I'd get around the area by bus.
I was on the Victoria line, travelling down from Finsbury Park to brixton for an Alexander O’Neil concert. The train stopped at kings cross but the doors did not open. We sat there long enough for me to miss the majority of the concert.
Old Street and Essex Road are both utterly haunting and charming at the same time. Even midweek they're almost deserted outside of rush hour. As a teenager in the mid 1980's I always took a ride on this line when I visited London on spotting trips. It was referred to as the "Great Northern Electrics" at this time. Much of Network SouthEast livery still remains in place.
I remember travelling to Drayton Park several times when the line was under London Transport, and there was a distinctive smell, a sort of musty odour, and I never discovered why.
@@LKeet6 I remember the Moorgate accident, and the lurid descriptions in that weekends press of the stench and decay has meant that I have never been able to enter Moorgate station - even 45 years later - those descriptions were so vivid.
@@LKeet6 Yes, the smell was distinctive to that line. Also I have a vague recollection that the station signs were not the normal roundels, but diamond-shaped - or am I making that up?
A line from my childhood! I went to school at Drayton park. Me and my dad decided to get it to the end of the line one weekend, for no reason at all, and went all the way out to welwyn garden city.
I used to use this line, quite handy as I lived on Essex Road near the station, allowing connections to the Underground at Moorgate. The weirdness is compounded by the lack of adverts that you would see at a proper Tube station, making the featureless corridors seem even longer, lonelier and more barren.
Thanks Jago for old memories of the NC line. I discovered it back in 1950s when I was a schoolkid in London and a tube nerd. It was then still the rogue fragment of the Northern line called the Finsbury Park branch. The line was incredibly spooky back then it was dimly lit an almost deserted outside rush hour. Because of the large bore tunnels and the elderly tube stock used then there was this eerie echoing rumble for ages before the train arrived The other really weird thing I haven't seen commented on was the nameboards. In those days they had not the standard LT roundels but these odd red diamonds which I think were the old Metropolitan style. The letter set was very old looking too. The whole effect was quite frighteningly creepy and one could imagine some tense thriller with the goodie and the baddie trying to push each other onto the track with that rising echoing rumble of an approaching train building up to a fearful climax.
I've not been on the line since the first lockdown, immediately prior to that, they'd just removed all the tiling from the platform walls at Essex Road, in preparation for installing new tiles. I take it the bare walls were still there when you passed through, adding to the "horror movie" ambiance? I expect they've been retiled by now...??
I remember staying at a mates flat in Highbury and going to work from there to Moorgate, fortunately for me, I was two trains in front of the one that crashed, it was shortly after I reached the surface all hell broke loose as the disaster unfolded
Great video, thanks. I remember first using this station way back in the early 90s when I lived at Highbury Islington and needed to get to work at Moorgate. This was my daily commute and I was quite aware back then on its unusual significance. I was really happy a few years ago to see that it was still in operation.
went there a few months before the last 313's ... went to all the stations .. weekdays.. scared the willies out of me.. but was wonderful to be a time ship back to the 80s
I think he means Underground rather than underground, as in it was never meant to be part of the London Underground network. It was built for the Great Northern company as a branch off their main line.
This might refer to the 1975 disaster. While tunnels of the line were built to accommodate a main line train, there were narrow tube trains until the transfer. If I remember correct one of the reasons why the incident happened to be so deadly was the tunnel large diameter: when the first carriage of the tube train smashed into the tunnel end, the second came right on top of it, killing more passengers than it would have been in a narrow tube tunnel.
@@someoneno-one7672: While you’re not wrong, that isn’t really because the line was a London Underground line, rather because they used the smaller Tube stock trains. If instead they paired it with one of the subsurface lines and used subsurface stock, the issue of overriding wouldn’t have been a problem (presumably?) in the Moorgate accident. I’d agree with the viewpoint that the whole point of the line was to act as it does now, linking to the mainline railway at Finsbury Park.
@@fetchstixRHD I can't be more agree with you. In my opinion there should be a Thameslink branch connecting Finsbury Park to New Cross Gate with additional subterranean station(s) for Bank and London Bridge. This would have required extending Essex Road platforms and probably a new deeper station at Moregate but would have been extremely efficient for commuters.
I visited Essex Road recently. It's the bleakest station I've ever been to with no advertising and no digital boards with times of the coming trains. I was the only person in the station. To add to the spooky feeling, the train terminated on the same platform at Moorgate as the tube disaster.
I was on the platform at Moorgate station a few minutes prior to the disaster, I am very lucky not to have been there to witness the tradegy in person.
In the 80s this line was called the Great Northern Electrics and the Tube map had the Moorgate to Finsbury Park section as a BR section (usually two thin black lines) labelled "G.N. Electrics". The signs remained well past privatisation; the name Great Northern was one of the sections of Network SouthEast (hence the station decor at Essex Road). Trains heading south were shown as going to "London Moorgate" (they may still be).
Interesting. I used to use this line occasionally and remember being surprised on discovering it as an alternative to the underground for getting into the city. I was based for work at Finsbury Park at the time and would need to travel around from there to various locations and this line came in handy as a quick route to Moorgate, quicker than using the tube lines which involved a change. Never knew the background to this.
Used to get this train to school, most of my classmates didn’t even know the line existed! Was really useful for me though because it meant I wouldn’t have to change trains. Essex road used to be so quiet at non peak times it felt like an abandoned station from the past, quite creepy being by yourself on the platform, I have loads of pictures of it because I always thought it would be a good location for a horror story haha - love it though, really useful line and much nicer with the new trains it has now
oo! this must be the line i take sometimes to get to old street from the north. i remember being strangely excited the first time i saw those deep level tube platforms covered with national rail signage. those tunnels at old street connecting the platforms to the tube station always have been particularly grimy.
i use this line regularly as i live in welwyn garden city (the last stop) and it is quite weird all the underground stations, it seems abandoned in some ways
I travelled on the line twice under LT ownership before the handover, when they were still using the 1938 Stock. They diverted the northbound line into a new tunnel and platform at Highbury & Islington, to provide same level interchange with the Victoria Line. The new tunnels for the Moorgate Line were built to the larger dimension also, so as not to pose a problem if and when larger stock was introduced. (This turned out to be about 10 years later).
so glad i found this. i was talking to my parents about the moorgate tube disaster and my mum (born and raised in north london) said that the tube at the time was the northern line, she used it to get to work. she also said that she recently had a disagreement with her boss (from hertfordshire 🤪) about it and her boss said it wasn’t part of the northern line, it was something completely different. i tried to fact check via wikipedia and there’s nothing as detailed as this, so i just assumed my mum had misremembered. I’m happy this video has vindicated my mum.
As someone who used to commute from HFN to Moorgate, I always found this section from Finsbury Park into central very strange, now I understand why. Really interesting to know this. I also enjoyed the map of the Northern line connecting up to Ally Pally.
This is brilliant, i have just suscribed, I never knew any about this line and me and my little brother would often travel on the tubes, and nearly every week atleast once we would past finsbury park. Thanks for the info on tubes! keep it up!
I travelled on the line a time or two in the mid-1970s. The main oddity I noticed about it then was that the running tunnels had lights all along them - you could stand on the platform and see them stretching a long way away into the dark. The Moorgate crash mightn't have been quite such a frightful mess if they hadn't been using Tube-size stock in tunnels built to main-line dimensions. It left more room for the carriages to override each other and get crushed every which way, instead of just suffering end-to-end compression.
A while back I remember watching a vid about this line that was quite good and worth watching, at least i think it had something to do with it as i remember the station name Bushy Heath...Its called, "The Unfinished Northern Line" by Jay Foreman......Worth a watch and its not too long...
I've been to London maybe 5 times in my 30 years of life, and Ion't have any train videos in my UA-cam history. So I'm unsure how this ended up in my recommendations but I'm now going to watch ' The Mystery of Moorgate'. You've piqued a curiosity I didn't know I had!
Hello I get the Great Northern train sometimes from Finsbury Park to Moorgate and it always goes through an abandoned platform just before we get to King's Cross. I have had a look at some signage on the tunnel and it says Clerkenwell. Was there a station there that was supposed to be part of the NC line you talk about in this video?
It's a weird little line for sure - an odd hybrid of a Tube and National Rail line - fitting that it passed hands between Tube and mainline companies various times in its history. It's an interesting 'what if' to imagine if either of the proposed extensions it could have gotten went ahead. But, hey, such is life. Between this isolated branch being a Tube line for a long time, the Waterloo & City Line *not* being a part of the Underground until 1994, and the old East London Line being a part of the Underground for a very long time - another weird little isolated branch line that was somewhere between a Tube line and a National Rail line - there is a bit of a habit of things being grouped oddly in this context, lol. Great video!
An interesting vid. But the line was never under Northern Line control, it stayed part of the Met until the end of LT operations. The 38's had heavy maintainence carried out at Neasden and the crews at Drayton Park Depot were part of the Met Line East Section (which included New Cross and Barking Met). A friend of mine was an SM (Station manager (running), a train crew supervisor) at Barking and remembers Leslie Newson (Moorgate crash driver) well, he spent time there until transfered to Drayton Park, i believe a promotional move to Motorman. His goal was to get back to New Cross depot and be near home again as when he was a guard.
As a young boy in the fifties I occasionally went on this line when it still went to Finsbury Park. It was very creepy and dark, especially that long passage at Old Street. And I seem to remember spiral staircases at Finsbury Park, if anyone can confirm.
the moorgate to finsbury park line was also closed alot on the weekends during the 80's/90's and also used for fire training during the 80's at essex road on the weekends -- essex road has always had a spooky feeling about the station and even the platforms at highbury have that same sort of feeling about them -- this part of the line run's under where i used to live and we could feel the trains shaking the house has they passed ( essex rd to old street ) -- it seems this line has swap hands so many times that it feels no one wants it and it has been on and off the tube maps / london connections maps over the years
Yes Essex Rd is an obscure underdog.. on parting to travel home folks will sometime ask me "where I have to get to" and when I say that station name they draw a blank!
I remember reading of and seeing the TV films of the Moorgate train disaster of 1975. In 1988 the book “Moorgate, the anatomy of a railway disaster” by Sally Holloway was published. A book that I took out from my local library and read, from cover to cover. It revealed all of, at the time, the horrific details of this tragedy, of those on the train and of the horrific conditions that the rescue services endured on the train and in the tunnel. I will never forget what I read and the pictures and the thought of that little tube type train with its passengers, running, with the power still applied to its traction motors as it passed through the station platform and into the short dead-end tunnel. 💔😢
Check out the awful tyneside metro....... based on pre- world war 2 berlin U - bahn in terms of the electric power system and rolling stock. This replaced comfortable trains you could put your cycle on =:^ o
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Is it possible to extend it southwards and across the Thames? They talk about how London could benefit from more heavy metro lines that link mainline passenger services across London like Thameslink and Crossrail, they're still planning on making the Chelsea-Hackney alignment one. Why not link this Northern & City line to some of the services that currently terminate at Waterloo? Or maybe to just give tube-starved South London another way to get to the City and interchanges.
One of my uncles was a firefighter who attended Moorgate. 12 years later he was at Kings Cross. He never talks much about either disaster, other than to say "the underground is the worst place to be called to a shout".
back in the early 1980's, all stations had small sections of platform that still had posters from 1975 e.g "The Towering Inferno" movie etc.... B R were so cheap that it took them years to upgrade some of the walls and they had the old posters until around 1995!
I think the driver had a stroke on the the way in to the station. It can happen to relatively young people.The description of the Westinghouse braking system is wrong too. the compressed air keeps the brakes off. when the air leaks out the brakes apply automatically. That'ts why you hear a compressor pumping up the air cylinders before your train leaves the station.
This is partially true, the original Westinghouse air system applied the brakes automatically with compressed air. Westinghouse himself switched it to as you described when they had some issues with the brakes not applying quick enough.
As a northern line enthusiast It would be really cool to reinstate the northern city line as part of the northern line and get tfl to review the northern heights project.
I’m afraid the Green Belt has put paid to the Northern Heights plan. Can’t develop the land to attract passengers to build the business case, assuming you could get the Legal Powers to extend the line reinstated.
Great video. One detail slightly incorrect is the "mystery cause". It was determined in the driver's autopsy that he died of a seizure, which exonerated him from blame for the tragedy at the hearing. The one thing learned from his death was the implementation of the Dead Man's Handle, which, if it had been installed before the crash, would have saved the passengers from injury and death.
@I DON'T CARE I DON'T CARE I'm going my the medical and pathology report, which was in the autopsy notes. As a medical doctor, oppions are not important in my work. Just take it as is, it's a fact. Sorry, but you're wrong.
@@banana_man_101 So, they have. What a pity. I was going to offer to scan the autopsy report and email it to them as proof. Oh well. Maybe next time. :)
The dead man's handle had been around for years - the 1938 stock which was the type of train in the accident had it from new. What did change as a result of the Moorgate accident was the introduction of approach control to terminals so that it would not be possible to enter a dead end at speed. Hitherto the signalling system had relied on the driver's route knowledge and there was an assumption that if anything happened to the driver he would would release the dead man's handle bringing the train to a stand. The Railway Inspectorate report concluded that the driver was likely to have suffered akinesis with mutism or transient global amnesia but that there was no evidence for either. Worth reading the report.
@@mattgamble7125 Akinese is a form of epilepsy. The 'evidence' as you put it was only discovered during the second autopsy, for which the medical expertise was not available at the time of the first. Neural receptors in the brain were tested for the chemical response for akinesis and found positive for the hormone responsible. I had not wanted to go into full medical details, which would go right over the heads of most people. I am grateful that you didn't dismiss me as a liar. That made a change. However, your point about the dead man's handle is slightly incorrect. Britain had not installed them on all trains. The underground had not implemented them as they were 'advisory' and not 'mandatory'.
I actually work for great northern railways (part of the Govia Thameslink series) at Palmers Green Station. Been there for 2 years. So this vid is relatable. Your videos are an eye opener.
If the 'Evening Standard' is to be believed, the Bakerloo Line is about to become a 'lost' tube line as TfL make frantic efforts to cut costs from December 11th - unless that is they get a further bailout from the Government. Their financial crisis arises from the crash in passenger numbers during the height of the pandemic. Has anyone else been aware of this impending major crisis in London's transport system? 100 or so 'bus routes to be axed, too.
@@stefanhaustein: Which line are you referring to? If the Waterloo and City, you run into (I think) all three issues that Daniel raised above, and if the Northern City then again you’d be either turfing out the Great Northern services (and would have to find somewhere to accommodate them, as well as ruining a great connection) or trying to weave the DLR in (and finding the space or cutting the Network Rail tracks down) to serve places as far as Stevenage (good luck with that!)
That was a really interesting video. I'll have to take some time out to travel on the Northern City Line one day, hopefully soon. It's just one of those peculiarities on the tube map network that just stands out as an oddity, but which is so worth looking into. Thanks very much for this informative documentary. 👍🏾👏🏾
I was working for London Transport in 1975 as a signals technician in the New Works division when the Morgate Disaster occurred. I am a little surprised that the cause of the disaster has not been determined yet some 45 years later
No mechanical problems could be found, and the driver was killed by the impact. Eye-witness evidence from the platform suggested that the train didn't make any attempt to stop; passengers on board reported the speed of approach as unusually high. Unless new evidence turns up (unlikely), the cause is liable to remain a mystery.
I discovered its platforms at Moorgate by accident, and it was such a eerie experience that I though I entered into the Matrix or some kind of parallel universes
Rest In Peace Port Authority bus terminals lower level platform(abandoned in the 50s and then demolished when the 7 train in the U.S was extended). Along with the old City Hall station(1904-1945 in service). Alot of stations/lines here in America were abandoned. Along my territory(Metro North’s Hudson Line), most original stations were abandoned and demolished(155th and 125th streets along the west side line were taken down)
1:23 I just noticed that the shield of the Metropolitan railway contains the simplified coat of arms of Essex, the City of London, Berkshire and Buckinghamshire. Is this because the railway went through all of them?
Very interesting. I noticed that there was one photo of an overbridge at East Finchley station, advertising the new UndergrounD service about to take over the steam service. That was my first home, in the 1950s. I think it regrettable that the Finsbury Park - Alexandra Palace line ( part of the 1935 Northern Heights plan) was never made into a Northern Line service. It meant that a very large suburban area of north London was then left with no passenger railway.
When you mentioned the Moorgate disaster I said I wonder what the big American subway dis... And then it hit me I was living in Chicago in '76 when I got my driver license so we hopped in the car and drove downtown to see the CTA el train dangling off the 10m elevated trackway and the squished train and cars below... Not as deadly at all but so much more... Bigly visible. It was one of 6 or 8 slow 90° corners in "The Loop" that trains navigate hundreds of times daily. So not a signaling error. Union said mechanical, but it could have been a medical issue with the driver.
On use to live at essex road and you can really feel the need for another tube line. Crazy traffic and crazy amount of buses. Like when a bus comes every 30sec it probably means a metro would have been better. So frustrating for it to not be part of the underground specially connected to the waterloo and city line would have been crazy useful.
So is this why there seem to be two/three unused platforms at Moorgate? Or are they used now as sidings or storage purposes for out-of-use or historical stock?
No they were the platforms formerly used by Thameslink trains when there was a branch from Farringdon. The branch closed to allow the platforms at Farringdon to be extended for the new and longer Thameslink trains. Hope that helps!
Didnt Drayton Park (or was it Essex Road) close at Weekends ? It is worth re-exploring the entire line of route on foot, some interesting buildings, churches, roads, canals. pubs. Plus the old station at Highbury and Islington (compare with the old original entrance for the Northern Line at Angel too.
Another fascinating look at London Transport history. Re your earlier item on what lies hidden underneath - there was a long article about this in The Daily Telegraph recently. It was tied in with a new exhibition "Hidden London" at the Transport Museum, starting 11 October. One to visit! There's a book, too: "Hidden London" which is a joint effort, but it's quite pricey, £25. I wasn't aware that TfL actually run guided tours of some of these places.
This is a very very interesting channel. But I don’t know London very well. Does anyone know if there are similar ‘transporty’ forgotten history type channels about other British cities? Edinburgh in particular would be a bonus! 🤞
Bang on the money Jago, you don't probably (with respect) realise that those who know our geography of North London/Suburbs rather than Sat Nav dependence, instinctively appreciate the difference between the Stevenage branch lines of Oakleigh Pk vs Chase Side, each station, each location on both, firmly filed in our visual sub-conscious - it's not in your face, you either know it and appreciate, or you don't, either way it adds a deeper meaning to your videos - crack on "Bro"
Having walked the Northern Heights routes on a couple of occasions where it has been converted to a Green Walk, I would be very interested in seeing any period footage of any parts of the line preferably under steam haulage. I believe this would be LNER who probably ran the various routes up to the pre-war years including Alexander Palace where the station still exists.
when i was a kid this line really did play on my mind. i almost resented it. when i was 11 i remember going on it after school, just had to. its very weird line. overhead trains underground 🤦🏾♂️ rip 🙏🏾to the crash victims. i didn't know that.
Ah my FAVOURITE line. When the line opened up it had conductor rails on both sides of the running lines and stayed that way till LTPB took over in 1933. I suppose it's full size tunnels were in the long run its saviour. The grand plans of the northern heights were canned and the line to Alley Pallet closed in July 54 anyway. I certainly can remember all the girders at Finsbury Park to carry the new platforms, they were still there in 72 when I left to live in the land of snakes, spiders, sharks and everything else that wants to bite yer bleedin leg off. The line got as sacrificed at Finsbury Park in 1964 when the platform's were pinched to accommodate the new Victoria line I loved the line because old standard tube stock was still in use until 1966 when they sent it on a permanent holiday to the Isle of White. The stations were deserted, dank and very spooky, the huge tunnels also had a very dramatic feel to them. Unlike normal tube trains running in big standard tube size tunnels the sound of a tube train in these bigger tunnels was different, very eerie and almost ghostly. You could hear the train from almost the previous station. I wonder if they will ever bore Southwards to bank and Waterloo and beyond. Perhaps another Thames link service You may find this interesting showing standard tube stock, this predates the Finsbury Park closure as trains can be seen heading into the tunnel for Finsbury Park Check this out. ua-cam.com/video/KZxk08n8Jag/v-deo.html
I enjoy watching your videos, along with the dry wit etc. However, I would like to challenge you to name one of them that isn't idiosyncratic! It is a fundamental element of Jago Hazzard videos!
TfL seem to have developed a taste for adopting national rail lines - first there was the Overground network (which of course hijacked the former Underground East London Line), TfL Rail / Crossrail / Elizabeth Line / Purple Trains are NR, then this - and given the tube map is effectively a TfL services map these days (the cable car isn't exactly underground!)...
@@mittfh TfL did do bids to DfT which were turned down, mainly because they did not make clear the benefits that could accrue to non-londoners. A revised plan with enhanced services , ticketing and staffing might work, but just as WW2 changed plan deliveries (and the 1940s planning laws), so Covid impact is going to set things back 30 years in capitol spending.
I don't recall the Moorgate crash being a "mystery". Pretty sure the driver collapsed, and stayed slumped on the accelerator or equivalent. I don't remember if Dead Man's Handles existed then, if they did then he collapsed onto it.
I think they mean the mystery as to why the driver crashed as he wasn’t slumped over, witnesses on the platform before the train hit the dead end all mentioned they saw the driver with a blank expression just facing forward as the train accelerated
I do miss that’s little trains. In their last few years it did feel that it was close to falling apart. But the seating will never be missed. I wonder if you remember the old chocolate bar vending machines before the chilled ones.
Andrew McDonagh . I remember those old chocolate bar vending machines very well when I was a young kid in the late 60s travelling home with my dad . My favourite choc bar they did was called a Bar Six . Does anybody else remember them ? I think you could only get them in the vending machines but I could be mistaken . I loved them . They were such an unusual bar , called a bar six because they had six horizontal segments I think . Such a distinctive taste . I was horrified when you couldn’t get them anymore . I can’t remember if they cost thrupence or sixpence , it was so long ago . I remember that every so often an extra drawer at the bottom could be opened and you would get a free bar of something else . I should have left it there I suppose . Very naughty of me , but an extra bar of chocolate was a BIG thing in those days , much too hard to resist . Kids then were not spoilt the way today’s kids are , so any little extra treat then was a rarity. Come to think of it , maybe they stopped using those old vending machines because they were too unreliable and not cost effective enough as people could often swipe an unpaid for bar of choccy . Damn it , maybe I’m partly responsible for their downfall . I never thought of that until now .
simon furlong . Yes that’s right , I’m so glad that somebody else remembers them . They were a bit like a Kit Kat , similar design too but with a slightly different flavour . It’s funny that my dad loved them too and I only started eating them because of him . I didn’t realise that you could still get them up to the 80s though . I used to wonder why they stopped making them but maybe it is because the Kit Kat is so popular and they couldn’t compete against them . Thanks for replying .
@@choppy249 I'll do some research because I've a sneaky feeling I've seen them more recently,I may be wrong but ,here's to nothing 👍🏼www.doyouremember.co.uk/memory/cadburys-bar-six
simon furlong . That would be good if they did remake the original bar with the exact same taste . I would definitely try them out although I am not supposed to eat too much chocolate these days . I did look up about them briefly and some people were saying that they make the exact same thing but rebranded with a new name now. I have forgotten the name they mentioned but it didn’t ring a bell with me so it can’t be that popular , although saying that , there are so many different varieties these days that you could easily overlook it . I think I read somewhere that they still do the original bars in Japan of all places , but I don’t think I will venture that far to try one out again . It would be nice to find out that they still make them here though .
I imagine to most Americans, talk about the underground sounds something like this "At pennywhistle station and watercress court down the old spannywaist has a pindlestiff at the brumley and Falstaff greengrocer. Tittertwat and piffle register for the jaunty morning waistcoat. Follow the balderdash and kindly mind the wainscoting!"
It sounds exactly like that
I read/watch things about eg the New York Subway and get fully lost with the talk of IRT, BRT, IND, PATH
@@alstorer Speaking of the New York Subway, and in the context of this story, there is a similar abandoned line that ends at 99 Schermerhorn Street Brooklyn NY (now the site of the New York Transit Museum.) It has an interesting history. Worth a visit for any tourist visiting NYC.
No problem understanding the presentation really at all... but then again I'm in Boston MA area and having the oldest subway system in the country we're kind of use to weird complexities, unconnected lines, disused or missing stations etc.
Mark and Lard's One Man and His Frog
On my last visit to London a couple years ago, I stayed near the Highbury & Islington stop, and used this line quite a few times. I knew something felt "off" about it - a "National Rail" line, with full-size trains, but in a tube that looked like the Underground - and finally, this video has explained it!
The thing is though that the Northern City Line is now doing exactly what it was originally intended to do.
Sometimes UA-cam throws up some real gems.
The sort of thing that Londonist used to do.
... and sometimes UA-cam just makes you throw up!! :-P
UA-cams about London Tubes
I have heard of Moorgate Protection. There are timers on the tracks on the approaches to terminal stations which require three reductions in speed and if a train goes through one before it should, the brakes on the train are engaged.
They had the technology to implement a system similar to this in the mid '70s!! They just didn't think it was necessary at Moorgate. The underground was so sloppily run in those days. I remember, as a child, it being dirty and run down!
A similar system is in effect on all terminal tracks in the New York subway system which end in bumper blocks. It has been effective in preventing trains from coming into a station at too high a speed and striking the bumper at the end of the track.
It really is a bizarre line. We get it to the Ally Pally and the first time you’re there the 80s decor makes you feel like you’re in a different time. Then a mainline train rolls in - it is just so jarring because it defies expectation. Great video as always.
Another brilliant film !
Talking of the Moorgate disaster an " old hand" on the tube told me a strange thing about it when I was a kid .
Drivers used to have a regular guard , when the train came to a stop he opened the doors and wasn't concerned that the front part of the train was in the tunnel ?
Reason ? the same driver had overshot the platform several times before .
Also the first emergency worker on the scene was a young PC who was on duty outside the station .
Years later he was first on the scene of the Marshoness pleasure boat disaster .
Wow!
What I recall, from riding on this line as a child (late 1960s?) is how dimly lit the platforms in the tunnel stations were. I supposed, because British Railways lighting standards are based on lighting a station at night, and, the Underground's lighting standards are based on lighting a station in the daytime.
That makes you 60.
@@Proactivebeetleondamic no could be in his 50s actually.
@@josephteller9715 maybe.
And the policy of Tralee and Dingle railway in west Ireland was lighting their stations at night only when 1 ) there was NO moon 2) it was cloudy ! - By hanging a paraffin lamp on a pole on their platforms !
Would definitely like to see more about the Mooregate and what those in the know think led up to this disaster. My sympathies and condolences to the families and friends of those lost.
Secret waterways under train tunnels. England is a honeycomb.
Lost rivers I assume?
some of them also go OVER the stations.... and thru them
The River Fleet for example
We’ve got a river buried under a canal in Birmingham, complete with trapdoor at the bottom of the canal.
Went on this line once when I was like 3/4, (it was run by FCC back then) and being a smol kid I now know it forever as:
Big creepy scary line
I'm only occasionally in London (I don't live in Europe) so I think I would've gotten more out of this video if the location of this line was shown on a modern Tube map.
This is a request I’ve had a few times, so I’m going to implement it in future videos. I’m afraid I sometimes forget that not everyone is a regular Tube user.
The line isn't shown on the tube map any more, but it is on the "London's Rail and Tube Services" map at tfl.gov.uk/maps/track.
It isn't on the London tube map as it isn't considered part of the tube any more. I believe it comes, if anything, under National Rail.
See tfl.gov.uk/maps/track/national-rail It's the Great Northern Line
@@Kristine1943 Oddly,, it stayed on the Tube map for many years after the transfer to the National Rail Network (then British Rail) occurred in 1975. It was finally removed in about 1992.
I would welcome learning more of the Moorgate Underground Disaster. A friend of mine died in it.
I made a more in-depth video titled “The Mystery of Moorgate” on the subject.
Drayton Park was my local station back when I visited London on spring break. It was pretty neat regularly using this odd piece of history.
In 2015 I rode the tube from Tower Hill to Paddington. I do not know if we were on the Circle or District line. Because the tube was undergoing major construction, the train made what must have been an unscheduled stop and instructed anyone who was traveling to Paddington to get off the train, walk around and take the Hammersmith & City line. There were no escalators or lift. We had to walk under a huge air vent and climb a long spiral staircase, then walk through a high vaulted, dark, arched passageway where stuff was stored. There was only one dim light on the side wall. We could hardly see, but continued about 200 feet to two very large push doors to exit. We exited onto a back alley backed by a short fence and a row of low houses. The double doors had an old green light fixture over the doors. We walked to a quiet side street and turned left onto it. Across the street were several individual, tall red brick apartments in a grassy common area with a red phone booth. We walked along a large yellow brick warehouse like building 2 blocks to a main road. It was afternoon and we were terrified since no one was on either street except for one man. Across the street was a large empty field of grass and row of trees. To the left of the field was an abandoned red brick factory with a tall stack. We walked along the street past closed, Victorian, one-story brick store fronts with old painted signs in windows. No traffic, no cars, no buses, no bikes, no taxis. No modern buildings or high rises, nor people. We came upon the brightly lit rondel in this row. There was one or two turnstiles and no station attendant. The only way down to the platform was by a small elevator. No one was inside the station and we were the only ones on a small, unadorned platform with no bench, hoping to connect with Hammersmith & City line. After searching extensively, I do not find such an unpopulated neighborhood with old buildings. I want to know the name of the neighborhood and station with spiral stairs we climbed out of, and if it was an unused station with no cross over, and what is the station we entered? Thanks for any help. It's driving me crazy that I can't find it online. Eltee
As a resident of Crouch End, the abandonment of the extension plans is lamentable. But at least we have Harringay station nearby... and a nice lengthy greenway passing through the area.
I take this train to school everyday
I do not take this Train to school. Because i live in munich 😅. But sometimes i wish i live in London because i love the Bakerloo Line.
Have you been stabbed?
Hogwarts
Whats ur address
@@ad-vv3fl Hmm kinda sus.
I used this line in the 70s as a way of getting Arsenal from East London on a Saturday. It was always a cinderella line and wasn't there at least one station that didn't have any filling in of the tunnel rings? I seem to recall it looked unfinished?
The trains always seemed faster than other lines but I put that down to the extra noise of the larger tunnels. I was travelling back to Charing Cross from Kent when I found out about Moorgate. I don't think anyone expected it to be as horrendous as it was? I bought the Evening Standard (the jacker's journal) to read about it. The news that night was awful knowing what was at the end of that station tunnel. All very sad.
When the Victoria Line was built in the 60's, as well as temporarily curtailing the line back to Drayton Park, they also diverted the northbound Moorgate/Northern City line running tunnel into a brand new platform at Highbury & Islington (the tunnels being built to the same larger dimensions as the rest of the line to enable larger stock to use it) to provide Cross platform/same level interchange with the Victoria Line in both directions. I think this is the platform you refer to as having the "unfinished" appearance, with the tunnel rings still visible. Even today, the segments on the ceiling remain uncovered, although painted a nicer shade of beige! (The original northbound Northern City Line platform at Highbury is now the southbound Victoria Line platform).
Yes, I used to go to Highbury and lived with my parents off Brick Lane, close to Arnold Circus which you've done some stuff about. To get to Arsenal I'd walk to Old Street and travel to Drayton Park which was a short walk from the station, but not as crowded as Arsenal station or the other alternatives. I also used to work in Hoxton, and did visiting duties in the N1 area, so often used to go from Old Street to Essex Road or Highbury and Islington though mostly I'd get around the area by bus.
I used this link to Finsbury Park, on the night of the King's Cross Fire, instead of my more usual route ....
Sydney or 🏴
The kings cross fire was in London
@@FunkGodPutin so is finsbury park. Whats ur point?
I was on the Victoria line, travelling down from Finsbury Park to brixton for an Alexander O’Neil concert. The train stopped at kings cross but the doors did not open. We sat there long enough for me to miss the majority of the concert.
@@j2m3_raiden5 There is an area of Sydney, that is also called "Kings Cross", he was just clarifying if it was London or Sydney.
Old Street and Essex Road are both utterly haunting and charming at the same time. Even midweek they're almost deserted outside of rush hour. As a teenager in the mid 1980's I always took a ride on this line when I visited London on spotting trips. It was referred to as the "Great Northern Electrics" at this time. Much of Network SouthEast livery still remains in place.
I remember travelling to Drayton Park several times when the line was under London Transport, and there was a distinctive smell, a sort of musty odour, and I never discovered why.
I remember that smell! Always felt to me like it was the trains? And the electrification? Maybe my imagination.
@@LKeet6 I remember the Moorgate accident, and the lurid descriptions in that weekends press of the stench and decay has meant that I have never been able to enter Moorgate station - even 45 years later - those descriptions were so vivid.
@@LKeet6 Yes, the smell was distinctive to that line. Also I have a vague recollection that the station signs were not the normal roundels, but diamond-shaped - or am I making that up?
I seem to recall seeing a diamond-shaped Bank sign at Museum Depot.
@@robertsavage122 I think it may have changed by the time I was using it, in the mid to late 80s.
A line from my childhood! I went to school at Drayton park.
Me and my dad decided to get it to the end of the line one weekend, for no reason at all, and went all the way out to welwyn garden city.
I used to use this line, quite handy as I lived on Essex Road near the station, allowing connections to the Underground at Moorgate. The weirdness is compounded by the lack of adverts that you would see at a proper Tube station, making the featureless corridors seem even longer, lonelier and more barren.
Oddly, i think you've hit on why it seems so spooky -- no ads on the walls!
I've used this line and it's true, being on that platform is eary especially with the large hulking tunnels
Thanks Jago for old memories of the NC line. I discovered it back in 1950s when I was a schoolkid in London and a tube nerd. It was then still the rogue fragment of the Northern line called the Finsbury Park branch. The line was incredibly spooky back then it was dimly lit an almost deserted outside rush hour. Because of the large bore tunnels and the elderly tube stock used then there was this eerie echoing rumble for ages before the train arrived
The other really weird thing I haven't seen commented on was the nameboards. In those days they had not the standard LT roundels but these odd red diamonds which I think were the old Metropolitan style. The letter set was very old looking too.
The whole effect was quite frighteningly creepy and one could imagine some tense thriller with the goodie and the baddie trying to push each other onto the track with that rising echoing rumble of an approaching train building up to a fearful climax.
Got on at Essex Road during the first lockdown, was like something like a horror movie
I've not been on the line since the first lockdown, immediately prior to that, they'd just removed all the tiling from the platform walls at Essex Road, in preparation for installing new tiles. I take it the bare walls were still there when you passed through, adding to the "horror movie" ambiance? I expect they've been retiled by now...??
> 3:44 < Essex Road station
I remember staying at a mates flat in Highbury and going to work from there to Moorgate, fortunately for me, I was two trains in front of the one that crashed, it was shortly after I reached the surface all hell broke loose as the disaster unfolded
Thank you for another brilliantly idiosyncratic and thoroughly enjoyable video; your knowledge is amazing.
Great video, thanks. I remember first using this station way back in the early 90s when I lived at Highbury Islington and needed to get to work at Moorgate. This was my daily commute and I was quite aware back then on its unusual significance. I was really happy a few years ago to see that it was still in operation.
went there a few months before the last 313's ... went to all the stations .. weekdays.. scared the willies out of me.. but was wonderful to be a time ship back to the 80s
Born in 72, London, i remember a lot of the old maps and im sure i remember this line 🙂
1:10 “Arguably it shouldn’t have been an underground line in the first place. It was never intended as such.” Explain please.
There was a bit of trouble while they were building so they made it underground
I think he means Underground rather than underground, as in it was never meant to be part of the London Underground network. It was built for the Great Northern company as a branch off their main line.
This might refer to the 1975 disaster. While tunnels of the line were built to accommodate a main line train, there were narrow tube trains until the transfer. If I remember correct one of the reasons why the incident happened to be so deadly was the tunnel large diameter: when the first carriage of the tube train smashed into the tunnel end, the second came right on top of it, killing more passengers than it would have been in a narrow tube tunnel.
@@someoneno-one7672: While you’re not wrong, that isn’t really because the line was a London Underground line, rather because they used the smaller Tube stock trains. If instead they paired it with one of the subsurface lines and used subsurface stock, the issue of overriding wouldn’t have been a problem (presumably?) in the Moorgate accident.
I’d agree with the viewpoint that the whole point of the line was to act as it does now, linking to the mainline railway at Finsbury Park.
@@fetchstixRHD I can't be more agree with you. In my opinion there should be a Thameslink branch connecting Finsbury Park to New Cross Gate with additional subterranean station(s) for Bank and London Bridge. This would have required extending Essex Road platforms and probably a new deeper station at Moregate but would have been extremely efficient for commuters.
I visited Essex Road recently. It's the bleakest station I've ever been to with no advertising and no digital boards with times of the coming trains. I was the only person in the station. To add to the spooky feeling, the train terminated on the same platform at Moorgate as the tube disaster.
I was on the platform at Moorgate station a few minutes prior to the disaster, I am very lucky not to have been there to witness the tradegy in person.
TfL are in talks with Great Northern on taking over the Moorgate branch to make it part of the Overground at the moment.
In the 80s this line was called the Great Northern Electrics and the Tube map had the Moorgate to Finsbury Park section as a BR section (usually two thin black lines) labelled "G.N. Electrics". The signs remained well past privatisation; the name Great Northern was one of the sections of Network SouthEast (hence the station decor at Essex Road). Trains heading south were shown as going to "London Moorgate" (they may still be).
Interesting. I used to use this line occasionally and remember being surprised on discovering it as an alternative to the underground for getting into the city. I was based for work at Finsbury Park at the time and would need to travel around from there to various locations and this line came in handy as a quick route to Moorgate, quicker than using the tube lines which involved a change. Never knew the background to this.
Used to get this train to school, most of my classmates didn’t even know the line existed! Was really useful for me though because it meant I wouldn’t have to change trains. Essex road used to be so quiet at non peak times it felt like an abandoned station from the past, quite creepy being by yourself on the platform, I have loads of pictures of it because I always thought it would be a good location for a horror story haha - love it though, really useful line and much nicer with the new trains it has now
oo! this must be the line i take sometimes to get to old street from the north. i remember being strangely excited the first time i saw those deep level tube platforms covered with national rail signage. those tunnels at old street connecting the platforms to the tube station always have been particularly grimy.
i use this line regularly as i live in welwyn garden city (the last stop) and it is quite weird all the underground stations, it seems abandoned in some ways
I travelled on the line twice under LT ownership before the handover, when they were still using the 1938 Stock. They diverted the northbound line into a new tunnel and platform at Highbury & Islington, to provide same level interchange with the Victoria Line. The new tunnels for the Moorgate Line were built to the larger dimension also, so as not to pose a problem if and when larger stock was introduced. (This turned out to be about 10 years later).
so glad i found this. i was talking to my parents about the moorgate tube disaster and my mum (born and raised in north london) said that the tube at the time was the northern line, she used it to get to work. she also said that she recently had a disagreement with her boss (from hertfordshire 🤪) about it and her boss said it wasn’t part of the northern line, it was something completely different. i tried to fact check via wikipedia and there’s nothing as detailed as this, so i just assumed my mum had misremembered. I’m happy this video has vindicated my mum.
As someone who used to commute from HFN to Moorgate, I always found this section from Finsbury Park into central very strange, now I understand why. Really interesting to know this. I also enjoyed the map of the Northern line connecting up to Ally Pally.
This is brilliant, i have just suscribed, I never knew any about this line and me and my little brother would often travel on the tubes, and nearly every week atleast once we would past finsbury park. Thanks for the info on tubes! keep it up!
Thanks!
I travelled on the line a time or two in the mid-1970s. The main oddity I noticed about it then was that the running tunnels had lights all along them - you could stand on the platform and see them stretching a long way away into the dark.
The Moorgate crash mightn't have been quite such a frightful mess if they hadn't been using Tube-size stock in tunnels built to main-line dimensions. It left more room for the carriages to override each other and get crushed every which way, instead of just suffering end-to-end compression.
A while back I remember watching a vid about this line that was quite good and worth watching, at least i think it had something to do with it as i remember the station name Bushy Heath...Its called, "The Unfinished Northern Line" by Jay Foreman......Worth a watch and its not too long...
I've been to London maybe 5 times in my 30 years of life, and Ion't have any train videos in my UA-cam history. So I'm unsure how this ended up in my recommendations but I'm now going to watch ' The Mystery of Moorgate'. You've piqued a curiosity I didn't know I had!
Hello I get the Great Northern train sometimes from Finsbury Park to Moorgate and it always goes through an abandoned platform just before we get to King's Cross. I have had a look at some signage on the tunnel and it says Clerkenwell. Was there a station there that was supposed to be part of the NC line you talk about in this video?
It's a weird little line for sure - an odd hybrid of a Tube and National Rail line - fitting that it passed hands between Tube and mainline companies various times in its history.
It's an interesting 'what if' to imagine if either of the proposed extensions it could have gotten went ahead. But, hey, such is life.
Between this isolated branch being a Tube line for a long time, the Waterloo & City Line *not* being a part of the Underground until 1994, and the old East London Line being a part of the Underground for a very long time - another weird little isolated branch line that was somewhere between a Tube line and a National Rail line - there is a bit of a habit of things being grouped oddly in this context, lol.
Great video!
An interesting vid. But the line was never under Northern Line control, it stayed part of the Met until the end of LT operations. The 38's had heavy maintainence carried out at Neasden and the crews at Drayton Park Depot were part of the Met Line East Section (which included New Cross and Barking Met). A friend of mine was an SM (Station manager (running), a train crew supervisor) at Barking and remembers Leslie Newson (Moorgate crash driver) well, he spent time there until transfered to Drayton Park, i believe a promotional move to Motorman. His goal was to get back to New Cross depot and be near home again as when he was a guard.
Barking Station, ay? I'll bet that place is a bit "ruff"! LOL
@@neilforbes416 Funnily enough, that's not far from the truth these days......
As a young boy in the fifties I occasionally went on this line when it still went to Finsbury Park. It was very creepy and dark, especially that long passage at Old Street. And I seem to remember spiral staircases at Finsbury Park, if anyone can confirm.
the moorgate to finsbury park line was also closed alot on the weekends during the 80's/90's and also used for fire training during the 80's at essex road on the weekends -- essex road has always had a spooky feeling about the station and even the platforms at highbury have that same sort of feeling about them -- this part of the line run's under where i used to live and we could feel the trains shaking the house has they passed ( essex rd to old street ) -- it seems this line has swap hands so many times that it feels no one wants it and it has been on and off the tube maps / london connections maps over the years
Yes Essex Rd is an obscure underdog.. on parting to travel home folks will sometime ask me "where I have to get to" and when I say that station name they draw a blank!
I remember reading of and seeing the TV films of the Moorgate train disaster of 1975.
In 1988 the book “Moorgate, the anatomy of a railway disaster” by Sally Holloway was published. A book that I took out from my local library and read, from cover to cover. It revealed all of, at the time, the horrific details of this tragedy, of those on the train and of the horrific conditions that the rescue services endured on the train and in the tunnel. I will never forget what I read and the pictures and the thought of that little tube type train with its passengers, running, with the power still applied to its traction motors as it passed through the station platform and into the short dead-end tunnel. 💔😢
Northern heights, plus future plans for this odd line.
Check out the awful tyneside metro....... based on pre- world war 2 berlin U - bahn in terms of the electric power system and rolling stock. This replaced comfortable trains you could put your cycle on =:^ o
Is it possible to extend it southwards and across the Thames? They talk about how London could benefit from more heavy metro lines that link mainline passenger services across London like Thameslink and Crossrail, they're still planning on making the Chelsea-Hackney alignment one. Why not link this Northern & City line to some of the services that currently terminate at Waterloo? Or maybe to just give tube-starved South London another way to get to the City and interchanges.
The route south would only really replicate what Thameslink due to the alignment at Moorgate
My grave site was disturbed when this was built, i can't rest now and still float around these tunnels in limbo
Simp
@@lizardblue2022 sheep
One of my uncles was a firefighter who attended Moorgate. 12 years later he was at Kings Cross. He never talks much about either disaster, other than to say "the underground is the worst place to be called to a shout".
Thank you! I often wondered why there was a mutant tube stop on Essex Road
back in the early 1980's, all stations had small sections of platform that still had posters from 1975 e.g "The Towering Inferno" movie etc.... B R were so cheap that it took them years to upgrade some of the walls and they had the old posters until around 1995!
Hah! Love it
The Tube never fails to fascinate. Great video.
Just come across your page
Fascinating stuff keep up the good work!
I think the driver had a stroke on the the way in to the station. It can happen to relatively young people.The description of the Westinghouse braking system is wrong too. the compressed air keeps the brakes off. when the air leaks out the brakes apply automatically. That'ts why you hear a compressor pumping up the air cylinders before your train leaves the station.
yeah... its called fail-safe,
same on lorries
This is partially true, the original Westinghouse air system applied the brakes automatically with compressed air. Westinghouse himself switched it to as you described when they had some issues with the brakes not applying quick enough.
@@DjAlyX1 Sounds about right.
As a northern line enthusiast It would be really cool to reinstate the northern city line as part of the northern line and get tfl to review the northern heights project.
I’m afraid the Green Belt has put paid to the Northern Heights plan. Can’t develop the land to attract passengers to build the business case, assuming you could get the Legal Powers to extend the line reinstated.
That seems unlikely. More likely perhaps is for TfL to make it part of the Overground, which would see its use double or treble.
Great video. One detail slightly incorrect is the "mystery cause". It was determined in the driver's autopsy that he died of a seizure, which exonerated him from blame for the tragedy at the hearing. The one thing learned from his death was the implementation of the Dead Man's Handle, which, if it had been installed before the crash, would have saved the passengers from injury and death.
@I DON'T CARE I DON'T CARE I'm going my the medical and pathology report, which was in the autopsy notes. As a medical doctor, oppions are not important in my work. Just take it as is, it's a fact. Sorry, but you're wrong.
@@tardismole they deleted their cements lol
@@banana_man_101 So, they have. What a pity. I was going to offer to scan the autopsy report and email it to them as proof. Oh well. Maybe next time. :)
The dead man's handle had been around for years - the 1938 stock which was the type of train in the accident had it from new. What did change as a result of the Moorgate accident was the introduction of approach control to terminals so that it would not be possible to enter a dead end at speed. Hitherto the signalling system had relied on the driver's route knowledge and there was an assumption that if anything happened to the driver he would would release the dead man's handle bringing the train to a stand. The Railway Inspectorate report concluded that the driver was likely to have suffered akinesis with mutism or transient global amnesia but that there was no evidence for either. Worth reading the report.
@@mattgamble7125 Akinese is a form of epilepsy. The 'evidence' as you put it was only discovered during the second autopsy, for which the medical expertise was not available at the time of the first. Neural receptors in the brain were tested for the chemical response for akinesis and found positive for the hormone responsible. I had not wanted to go into full medical details, which would go right over the heads of most people. I am grateful that you didn't dismiss me as a liar. That made a change. However, your point about the dead man's handle is slightly incorrect. Britain had not installed them on all trains. The underground had not implemented them as they were 'advisory' and not 'mandatory'.
I actually work for great northern railways (part of the Govia Thameslink series) at Palmers Green Station. Been there for 2 years. So this vid is relatable. Your videos are an eye opener.
If the 'Evening Standard' is to be believed, the Bakerloo Line is about to become a 'lost' tube line as TfL make frantic efforts to cut costs from December 11th - unless that is they get a further bailout from the Government. Their financial crisis arises from the crash in passenger numbers during the height of the pandemic. Has anyone else been aware of this impending major crisis in London's transport system? 100 or so 'bus routes to be axed, too.
I cannot imagine them axing the Bakerloo as it runs through some pretty affluent areas!
They really should just add it to the W+C and extend down to those platforms at bank.
.
I wonder if it could make sense to connect it to the DLR instead?
@@stefanhaustein: Which line are you referring to? If the Waterloo and City, you run into (I think) all three issues that Daniel raised above, and if the Northern City then again you’d be either turfing out the Great Northern services (and would have to find somewhere to accommodate them, as well as ruining a great connection) or trying to weave the DLR in (and finding the space or cutting the Network Rail tracks down) to serve places as far as Stevenage (good luck with that!)
That was a really interesting video. I'll have to take some time out to travel on the Northern City Line one day, hopefully soon. It's just one of those peculiarities on the tube map network that just stands out as an oddity, but which is so worth looking into. Thanks very much for this informative documentary. 👍🏾👏🏾
There are 2 entire lines that are no longer part of the tube. The Northern City line and the East London line.
Yaaay! I'm so happy, this line is my line! My station is Essex Rd. Ha solid little vid lol rad history 👏
Your videos are really packed with information and I often have to watch them twice or more!
I was working for London Transport in 1975 as a signals technician in the New Works division when the Morgate Disaster occurred. I am a little surprised that the cause of the disaster has not been determined yet some 45 years later
No mechanical problems could be found, and the driver was killed by the impact.
Eye-witness evidence from the platform suggested that the train didn't make any attempt to stop; passengers on board reported the speed of approach as unusually high.
Unless new evidence turns up (unlikely), the cause is liable to remain a mystery.
Northern Heights special - definitely, just up the road from me and a local fascination!
I discovered its platforms at Moorgate by accident, and it was such a eerie experience that I though I entered into the Matrix or some kind of parallel universes
Rest In Peace Port Authority bus terminals lower level platform(abandoned in the 50s and then demolished when the 7 train in the U.S was extended). Along with the old City Hall station(1904-1945 in service). Alot of stations/lines here in America were abandoned. Along my territory(Metro North’s Hudson Line), most original stations were abandoned and demolished(155th and 125th streets along the west side line were taken down)
1:23 I just noticed that the shield of the Metropolitan railway contains the simplified coat of arms of Essex, the City of London, Berkshire and Buckinghamshire. Is this because the railway went through all of them?
Very interesting. I noticed that there was one photo of an overbridge at East Finchley station, advertising the new UndergrounD service about to take over the steam service. That was my first home, in the 1950s. I think it regrettable that the Finsbury Park - Alexandra Palace line ( part of the 1935 Northern Heights plan) was never made into a Northern Line service. It meant that a very large suburban area of north London was then left with no passenger railway.
I like highbury corner as my brother used to get off there when he lived dalston junction that flat was so loud
That “Network South East” sign was right out of the 1980’s.
Still got NSE signage in the platform paving on the W&C platforms at Bank
When you mentioned the Moorgate disaster I said I wonder what the big American subway dis... And then it hit me I was living in Chicago in '76 when I got my driver license so we hopped in the car and drove downtown to see the CTA el train dangling off the 10m elevated trackway and the squished train and cars below... Not as deadly at all but so much more... Bigly visible. It was one of 6 or 8 slow 90° corners in "The Loop" that trains navigate hundreds of times daily. So not a signaling error. Union said mechanical, but it could have been a medical issue with the driver.
On use to live at essex road and you can really feel the need for another tube line. Crazy traffic and crazy amount of buses. Like when a bus comes every 30sec it probably means a metro would have been better. So frustrating for it to not be part of the underground specially connected to the waterloo and city line would have been crazy useful.
So is this why there seem to be two/three unused platforms at Moorgate? Or are they used now as sidings or storage purposes for out-of-use or historical stock?
No they were the platforms formerly used by Thameslink trains when there was a branch from Farringdon. The branch closed to allow the platforms at Farringdon to be extended for the new and longer Thameslink trains. Hope that helps!
I used to go to The Garage only a few doors down from that station entrance
You’ve come a long way.
I've ridden that line for exhibitions at Alexandra Palace. Fortunately, I have never been that lone traveller @0:29.
Didnt Drayton Park (or was it Essex Road) close at Weekends ? It is worth re-exploring the entire line of route on foot, some interesting buildings, churches, roads, canals. pubs. Plus the old station at Highbury and Islington (compare with the old original entrance for the Northern Line at Angel too.
Essex Road closed on Weekends yes
I seem to recall it did, although these days it’s certainly open on Saturdays.
Jago Hazzard Yes indeed. Cannon Street is much the same. It was always shut on Sundays years ago but now it’s open with just a very limited service
Another fascinating look at London Transport history. Re your earlier item on what lies hidden underneath - there was a long article about this in The Daily Telegraph recently. It was tied in with a new exhibition "Hidden London" at the Transport Museum, starting 11 October. One to visit! There's a book, too: "Hidden London" which is a joint effort, but it's quite pricey, £25. I wasn't aware that TfL actually run guided tours of some of these places.
Sounds worth a look! I shall investigate!
I have a fantastic book called London under London. Probably out of print but worth a look.
@@ThermoMan I had that one, too, but just had a look on the shelves but no luck. Gone to the great bookshop in the sky.
I parked my car on front of that Strand station some years ago, when I went from the continent to London
A suggestion, Shepherds Bush, it looks like there are more than two tunnels there, is this true and is there a story there.
Used it on occassions to get to events at Alexandra Palace - walk up the hill from the station.
This is a very very interesting channel. But I don’t know London very well. Does anyone know if there are similar ‘transporty’ forgotten history type channels about other British cities? Edinburgh in particular would be a bonus! 🤞
Edinburgh is a wonderful city whose history would make for a great series.
I can recommend 'Jules Guides'
Check out Unfinished London
I wish there were. Maybe I ought to start one.
@@JagoHazzard As would Glasgow which has an extensive rail network, some of which is partly underground with abandoned lines and stations.
@Jago Haazard: do you have a source link for the HoVIS double-decker bus (crash) briefly shown at 02:35?
Bang on the money Jago, you don't probably (with respect) realise that those who know our geography of North London/Suburbs rather than Sat Nav dependence, instinctively appreciate the difference between the Stevenage branch lines of Oakleigh Pk vs Chase Side, each station, each location on both, firmly filed in our visual sub-conscious - it's not in your face, you either know it and appreciate, or you don't, either way it adds a deeper meaning to your videos - crack on "Bro"
@Oswald Mosley Lost me too, somewhere after Oakleigh Park...........
Having walked the Northern Heights routes on a couple of occasions where it has been converted to a Green Walk, I would be very interested in seeing any period footage of any parts of the line preferably under steam haulage. I believe this would be LNER who probably ran the various routes up to the pre-war years including Alexander Palace where the station still exists.
I made a simulation of the Alexandra Palace branch, see here, ua-cam.com/video/yYx25GY7Bvs/v-deo.html
when i was a kid this line really did play on my mind.
i almost resented it.
when i was 11 i remember going on it after school, just had to.
its very weird line.
overhead trains underground 🤦🏾♂️
rip 🙏🏾to the crash victims.
i didn't know that.
brillant stuff, london has so many hidden gems, im sure there is more hidden stuff underground that public dont know.
Ah my FAVOURITE line.
When the line opened up it had conductor rails on both sides of the running lines and stayed that way till LTPB took over in 1933.
I suppose it's full size tunnels were in the long run its saviour.
The grand plans of the northern heights were canned and the line to Alley Pallet closed in July 54 anyway.
I certainly can remember all the girders at Finsbury Park to carry the new platforms, they were still there in 72 when I left to live in the land of snakes, spiders, sharks and everything else that wants to bite yer bleedin leg off.
The line got as sacrificed at Finsbury Park in 1964 when the platform's were pinched to accommodate the new Victoria line
I loved the line because old standard tube stock was still in use until 1966 when they sent it on a permanent holiday to the Isle of White.
The stations were deserted, dank and very spooky, the huge tunnels also had a very dramatic feel to them.
Unlike normal tube trains running in big standard tube size tunnels the sound of a tube train in these bigger tunnels was different, very eerie and almost ghostly.
You could hear the train from almost the previous station.
I wonder if they will ever bore Southwards to bank and Waterloo and beyond.
Perhaps another Thames link service
You may find this interesting showing standard tube stock, this predates the Finsbury Park closure as trains can be seen heading into the tunnel for Finsbury Park
Check this out. ua-cam.com/video/KZxk08n8Jag/v-deo.html
I enjoy watching your videos, along with the dry wit etc. However, I would like to challenge you to name one of them that isn't idiosyncratic! It is a fundamental element of Jago Hazzard videos!
Great video. There are plans afoot for TfL to take over this line (and indeed the Great Northern inners as a whole) before September 2022.
TfL seem to have developed a taste for adopting national rail lines - first there was the Overground network (which of course hijacked the former Underground East London Line), TfL Rail / Crossrail / Elizabeth Line / Purple Trains are NR, then this - and given the tube map is effectively a TfL services map these days (the cable car isn't exactly underground!)...
@@mittfh TfL did do bids to DfT which were turned down, mainly because they did not make clear the benefits that could accrue to non-londoners. A revised plan with enhanced services , ticketing and staffing might work, but just as WW2 changed plan deliveries (and the 1940s planning laws), so Covid impact is going to set things back 30 years in capitol spending.
@@highpath4776 I think you might find they are accelerated, in a Keynesian Economic boost!
I don't recall the Moorgate crash being a "mystery". Pretty sure the driver collapsed, and stayed slumped on the accelerator or equivalent. I don't remember if Dead Man's Handles existed then, if they did then he collapsed onto it.
I think they mean the mystery as to why the driver crashed as he wasn’t slumped over, witnesses on the platform before the train hit the dead end all mentioned they saw the driver with a blank expression just facing forward as the train accelerated
I do miss that’s little trains. In their last few years it did feel that it was close to falling apart. But the seating will never be missed.
I wonder if you remember the old chocolate bar vending machines before the chilled ones.
Andrew McDonagh . I remember those old chocolate bar vending machines very well when I was a young kid in the late 60s travelling home with my dad . My favourite choc bar they did was called a Bar Six . Does anybody else remember them ? I think you could only get them in the vending machines but I could be mistaken . I loved them . They were such an unusual bar , called a bar six because they had six horizontal segments I think . Such a distinctive taste . I was horrified when you couldn’t get them anymore . I can’t remember if they cost thrupence or sixpence , it was so long ago . I remember that every so often an extra drawer at the bottom could be opened and you would get a free bar of something else . I should have left it there I suppose . Very naughty of me , but an extra bar of chocolate was a BIG thing in those days , much too hard to resist . Kids then were not spoilt the way today’s kids are , so any little extra treat then was a rarity. Come to think of it , maybe they stopped using those old vending machines because they were too unreliable and not cost effective enough as people could often swipe an unpaid for bar of choccy . Damn it , maybe I’m partly responsible for their downfall . I never thought of that until now .
@@choppy249 I was born in 66 And you could get bar six upto the early 80s my dad loved them so did I bit like a KitKat .
simon furlong . Yes that’s right , I’m so glad that somebody else remembers them . They were a bit like a Kit Kat , similar design too but with a slightly different flavour . It’s funny that my dad loved them too and I only started eating them because of him . I didn’t realise that you could still get them up to the 80s though . I used to wonder why they stopped making them but maybe it is because the Kit Kat is so popular and they couldn’t compete against them . Thanks for replying .
@@choppy249 I'll do some research because I've a sneaky feeling I've seen them more recently,I may be wrong but ,here's to nothing 👍🏼www.doyouremember.co.uk/memory/cadburys-bar-six
simon furlong . That would be good if they did remake the original bar with the exact same taste . I would definitely try them out although I am not supposed to eat too much chocolate these days . I did look up about them briefly and some people were saying that they make the exact same thing but rebranded with a new name now. I have forgotten the name they mentioned but it didn’t ring a bell with me so it can’t be that popular , although saying that , there are so many different varieties these days that you could easily overlook it . I think I read somewhere that they still do the original bars in Japan of all places , but I don’t think I will venture that far to try one out again . It would be nice to find out that they still make them here though .