Rifles VS Cantaloupe 5.56 7.62x39 .270 Winchester .450 Bushmaster
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- Опубліковано 5 вер 2024
- BCA 5.56 Upper Review: • Bear Creek Arsenal BCA...
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Your 5.56 FMJ bullet was most likely a lead core bullet which probably deformed quite a bit upon impact. The 7.62x39 FMJ appears to be a bimetalic bullet which is basically steel with a copper wash. A magnet will stick to the bullet. The bimetalic bullet would not deform like a lead core bullet. If you do the same test with similar bullet composition, the 7.62x39 would probably do more damage.
Of course it was lead core- 99% of commercial 5.56 are. The bimetallic 7.62x39 is for the jacket only- the core is still lead. A lot of people don't know it, but when you shoot the Russian steel case ammo with the bimetallic jacketed bullets in .223/5.56, they wear out the barrel 3x as fast. It's not really a problem with 7.62x39 however, as the velocity and pressure is a lot lower so it doesn't wear down the barrel as bad. The .223/5.56 in this video likely either fragmented or tumbled. That mixed with the much higher velocity is why you get the results seen here. Using a hollow point bullet in the .223/5.56 would have been probably about the same outcome, but using a hollow point in the 7.62x39 would have matched the .223/5.56 performance for sure. But most people keep these rifles loaded with fmj ammo, so that's why I used it...
Well, all I can say is this.
I work at a steel mill, and we employ a lot of veterans. I’m a vet myself from the 1980s but I never saw combat. I’ve worked with a lot of guys who were in the thick of it in Iraq and/or Afghanistan.
Back in ‘16 I purchased my first military-style semiautomatic rifle. As I was shopping for it, I was debating with myself whether to get a 5.56 AR or a 7.62x39mm AK. I asked around among my combat vet coworkers as to what they thought I should get between those two options.
The pretty much unanimous consensus was that if I was only going to have one rifle of that type, that it should be the AK. Sure, the AR is a bit more accurate, they said, but within real-world engagement distances, the x39 was a superior, harder hitting round. I think they knew whereof they spoke.
This was a fun video, but I don’t think it proves very much that would be relevant to a situation in which one had to defend against actual two-legged predators. The physical dynamics involved are way, way different than shooting cantaloupes.
Seven years later, I’ve got both and I love both. Either one will work. But if heaven forbid, the doo-doo impacts the air conditioning apparatus, I know which one I’m reaching for, and it won’t be the AR.
Impressive results! If I were going on a cantelope hunt tomorrow I'd look hard at the 450 Bushmaster
Lol
You really have to be careful. During mating season the wild cantaloupe’s aggression is legendary.
A 12 gauge slug in a 3 inch mag rules. Dismissed
I think watermelons must have a higher water content so there’s more hydrostatic shock happening. Cantaloupes seem like better fruits to compare bullets though. You can see which ones penetrate and which ones tumble. Also the difference when you got up to the 270 and higher was pretty awesome.
Watermelon also doesnt have a cavity inside to absorb some shock
Despite your valid observation between water melon and cantaloupe, the difference is a 130 grain .270 at 2850fps versus a 180 grain .40 at 980 fps.
5.56 may initially look captivating, initial impact.
However, 7.62x39 begins to show its worth after 6-8inches... past that point, the projectile begins to tumble/yaw & reveal the desired damage, outcome.
Plenty of UA-cam vids that show this when ballistic gel & FBI protocol is used.
👍👍
Hopefully doing gel tests on these soon. However, if it takes 8" to start to tumble (unlike 5.56), it's practically through the body and beyond the vital organs at that point...
.270 was my dad's favorite hunting caliber, therefore, .270 is my favorite hunting caliber!
We are the same
I love .270 but they kick like a mule imho
Fort Scott Munitions makes a solid copper projectile for 450 BM. Very good round.
Cantaloupes just aren't going to be as reactive as a watermelon. The cantaloupe has a much lower liquid content, as well as having a central cavity filled with seeds.
7.62x39 fmj just cant transfer that energy non solid target like that.
But when it comes to hunting i think it will do more consistent damage to target
than 223/5.56 which will either pass trough or blow up depending does it
have speed to tumble or not.
But in reality it comes to what you hunt and do you want eat it afterwards.
Little pests which you are not gonna eat then 5.56 because why not.
For deer and similiar size of game i think 7.62 will perform overally better
when there is actually mass to take that energy.
I think the 68-80 grain 5.56 loads will anchor larger animals better- these light and fast 55gr do all the damage in the first few inches (much like a 22-250). But honestly on an attacker at close range who isn't wearing armor, that works pretty well. I've watched a ton of police/swat shootout videos, and the 5.56 AR always bring them down QUICK. It's a little different for the military when everyone is wearing body armor including the enemy- or different when you are hunting large or agressive game. But as a self defense round, I have a hard time believing the 7.62x39 is as good as 5.56 based on my results... Time for gel tests!
@@BuckeyeBallistics Gel test is there to shed light in that question.
Personally i think debate wont change much because there is so much of
variations of 223/5.56 ammo and barrel lengths which average joe wont have
resources to go trough.
7.62x39? 16 inch and 123/125 grain fmj is most common.
And do we shoot those at point blank or bit more realistic distances ?
I have heard of cases where soldiers in compat have shot those enemy compatants
which seems to not stop being threat after multible shot to upper body with 5.56
The main "comparison" for *me* is between the standard weights of FMJ for both (55-62gr 5.56 & 122-124gr x39). 1, because that is what most people use and also what the military & milita around the world use. 2, because you can achieve either great or poor performance from both depending on bullet selection, so you can just choose a better load to beat the other with a lesser load and vise versa.
I have heard/researched/read comments that fmj 7.62x39 works better against hogs and enemy combatants than does 5.56 fmj. The only thing I can think is that for hogs, they are tough and you need more penetration which the x39 provides. And for enemy combatants, they are wearing at least some sort of improvised armor- so again, penetration.
But that's why I mentioned the police and swat videos where the 5.56 smokes the badguys- badguys that aren't wearing armor. I thought perhaps it was because they were using hollow points and soft points, which many of them do. However, many use fmj in 55 and 62 grain fmj also, so at least some of those videos I saw were fmj results.
But anyway, this is why I wanted to do the gel tests side by side, to see what is actually going on inside the body when hit by these things. Eventually I'd like to shoot hunks of meat, but I need a bigger budget for that first...
@@BuckeyeBallistics I dont have any doupt that 55 grains shot from 16-20 barrel wont do a trick against
normal human like target. What i kind of undestood was problem with much shorter barrels
and heavier side of military fmj:s which just poked a bit too clean hole.
And we were talking about people in middle east area who dont usually carry anykind of
protective gear.
And when it comes to bodyarmor i had imagination that it is mostly speed which will
defeat them. So armor against x39 should make it perform worse.
Militaries are forced to use fmj:s because universal treaties.
But police forces are there to stop threat on spot and overpenetration is not good thing
so i imagine that they use expanding bullets when shit hits a fan.
But in the end there is no guy who is willing to test which one hurt more.
So lets see what that gelatin will tell us.
@@BuckeyeBallistics People should put back a few boxes of some other types of ammo for their different rifles, just in case they ever need them to take game. An AR in 5.56 is plenty for taking whitetail deer, but I would highly suggest something better than a 55 or 62 grain FMJ. Same for 7.62x39. There are some 123 grain soft points that have proven to be excellent killing hogs and deer.
totally dig the slow mo.
450 is like a magician, just makes things disappear
So the .270 is it's assistant? 😅
Love it dude 👍🏽 In the name of science, I think the cantaloupes are the bees knees showing comparison. 🧪 The Anderson and Bear Creak Arsenal are holding it down.
That .270 FMJ is nasty
wow just wow
If you watch any videos where they shoot cantaloupe and watermelons with fmj 5.56 and even 7.62x39mm they usually zip through.
I've heard dudes from combat say they've put up to 6 rounds of 5.56 in an unarmored guys chest and they barely flench from adrenaline, yet they've seen their buddies get knocked on their ass from 7.62x39 even when getting hit in their armor. Idk how else to say this, but your ammo is dumb and doing the opposite of what they're designed to do. 5.56 was made to zip through people and break up, 7.62 was designed to smack hard and dump it's energy.
Something a lot of people don't account for when stating the overseas refrences, is those combatants are usually hopped up on stuff and they already were crazy before they took it. Our boys are of sounder mind to begin with and sober when in combat. That makes a big difference when getting hit with projectiles and whether or not it affects the person. Everytime I watch a cop video where the cop uses an AR, they drop like a rock when hit...
@BuckeyeBallistics I'm just saying, the reason we're switching back to battle rifle rounds (6.8) and have rounds like .458 and .300 blk was because of troops complaining about the lack of "muh stopping power" from 5.56. Ive never heard a dude using 7.62x39 say he wishes he had something bigger for combat.
This video is the WWE of scientific method.
Lol
I have deer and turkey on my range too .
In the video I just posted today they came right up to me...
Hey man, I have a possible video Idea. Would you consider doing a velocity test of m193 from different companies like winchester, American eagle, etc? I feel like m193 has been watered down a lot.
Yeah when I have the money for a new chrono and all that ammo... could do the same for the xm855 as well.
I have fmj 270 rounds for my winchester! Nickel platted brass💪
Who makes them?
nice comparisons ...
Ruger American....a bolt like an Idaho potato wrapped in sandpaper. To each his own. Good vid.
5 star videos
The 450 never disappoints. That's a crazy round for sure. Great for hunting. The AR platform is so much more versatile versus the current AK platform. I like both but it is what it is.
There's is 450 bushmaster in fmj
Really thinking of going BM for a deer rifle. Sort of torn on just getting a different upper or getting a bolt savage/ruger type (recommendations would be appreciated). I've hunted with my ar before and its nice becuse its easy to carry and you can take it through anything and not really care. Most BM bolt rifles are only a little longer and are sort of the same utility level.. maybe the best of both worlds? My 7mm mag with beautiful walnut is a bit out of its element where i hunt now. 200 yard max, mostly within 100 yards, a lot of brush type land.
Cool 😎
I am😊 the bush master!
WhoaHohoho....the 450 wins
Cool video
I think the damage from the 556 wasn’t from velocity but from fragmentation.
How about tumbling...
@@BuckeyeBallistics that could be it too
Ballistic tips make the difference?
Yeassth. They go kabloomy. In all seriousness though, I'm not quite sure what you are referencing or implying.
@@BuckeyeBallistics Mostly an observation. 270 is an older round and I'm not too familiar with it. Wonder how hard it is to find a tipped bullet. It would be neat to see it in action.
As I mentioned in the video, speed is usually king when blowing up soft targets- at least for the first few inches anyway (you know this from your own tests). So the fact that the much slower and slightly less powerful .450 did more damage than the much faster .270, yes I attribute that to the ballistic tip.
Soft point bullets, most of them at least, they peel back (mushroom) more slowly as they pass through the target. This is ideal for hunting because it aids in penetration and producing a larger permanent wound cavity further in, instead of all of it all at once in the first few inches and then just a pencil line of damage thereafter.
Ballistic tips are the opposite effect, where they expand very rapidly (at least in contrast), so they dump all their energy very quickly instead of carrying it through the target. That's why varmint rounds in like say .22-250, .223, .243 etc are usually ballistic tipped, so that they blow up and dump their energy immediately. You don't need very much penetration on a prarie dog, but you do want explosive results incase your shot is slightly off on such a small target.
Now obviously the .450BM is not a varmint gun, so why ballistic tip then? Well I'm assuming a couple variables. One being that it's a large heavy 45 caliber 250gr chunck of lead, so penetration isn't really going to be an issue regardless of bullet type. Two, that being such a short and stubby bullet, I'd imagine that the hollow cavity is rather shallow which would make it hard to expand, especially with the lower velocity of the round and especially at distance. So if you ask me, the ballistic tip is ensuring that it will expand because it's not exactly the optimal bullet design to start with.
On the off chance that you don't know exactly how a ballistic tip works or for those reading this that don't, the plastic tip is set in the front of the hollow cavity of the bullet and still has more of the hollow cavity behind it. When it strikes it's target, the ballistic tip is slammed down into the hollow cavity and it itself squishes/expands inside the bullet, aiding in bullet expansion because it is pushing out against the inner walls of the hollow point. When this occurs, it exposes the hollow cavity of the bullet as well so that it can also perform like a tradition hollow point simultaniously.
So a ballistic tip is literally just a hollow point, but what that tip does inside it causes more rapid expansion than a traditional hollow point provides- and much more so than a soft point. Again for others reading this- fmj is for plinking/practice or for ultimate penetration. Soft point is for hunting and provides expansion at a mild rate (and the expansion is usually moderate) with good penetration. Hollow point gives quicker expansion that is usually larger and thus more damaging, but at the cost of some penetration. And ballistic tip gives maximum expansion very quickly (often even fragmenting) and the largest possible diameter wound cavity, but results in very poor penetration by comparison.
Curious to see that 300 blk vs 350 legend
Me too!
Albeit, the exit was far greater with the .223, you showed the entrance, not the exit regarding the 7.62.
The entrance and exit for the 7.62 looked the same lol
@@BuckeyeBallistics Almost! Fun video.
Velocity is why!
Density of a melon to the watermelon, is quite different.
Haven't run into a killer gourd yet
In conclusion....I don't want to get shot by any of them.
Would be different if you would have used a harnady sst for 762
Same could be said for 5.56 lol
The results were as expected, but the test had to be done so fun is not missed!
5.56 m855A1 end of story
Never heard of those before but they look awesome.
5.56 great for people 7.62 better for 4 legged threats so bigger game 7.62 does a better job not to mention if it hits bone 7.62 will tumble quick
762 is great but there is a good reason Russia made the 545 and why china would adopt their own 5.8 variant.
Obviously, 556 isn't without its own limitations too. The real draw for 556, aside from speed, is its fragmentation.
Although, without an appropriate-length barrel (20in preferably, anything less than 16in is getting bad fast), performance suffers drastically.
Also: 545 > 556 :P
I have seen where some 5.56 fmj fragment, and others do not but simply yaw instead to create the damage. Now considering this, I'm even more excited to start gel tests on 5.56 (and 7.62) to see if there is a difference between brands fragmenting or not. Also on that note, will they fragment from a 16" barrel at all or at longer distances? I guess I would need to aquire a 20" 5.56 and a 7-10" 5.56 pistol to test this theory (the pistol will replicate 200ish yard velocity from a carbine).
The original cartridge is suppose to fragment. I can't speak on how certain brands may construct their bullet. 16'' barrels will gain enough velocity to fragment but best performance will be from a 20'' barrel. There are also variances in ammo like the M855A1 which better performs out of shorter barrels but mileage may vary.
About 3100fps is best but if you're getting around 2800 or better, you're probably getting good enough fragmentation.
Eaxaclty- many manufactures list their ammo as "193" or "855" just because of the bullet weight I think, and sometimes the velocity doesn't line up either (including longer barrels). So a lot of people out there thinking they're getting actual 193's or 855's when they're not. That's why comparative gel tests between brands would be interesting (and telling).
I just read up on the M8551 yesterday- those are awesome and I want to get some...
OMG You are slaughtering some of my favorite food. Next time you do this let me know and I'll show up with a fork!
You gonna eat all that lead? 😅
The . 556 must have started to tumble.
That was quite a bit more interesting than most of these types of test. It shows that paper analysis doesn't usually tell the whole story
Tumble ??? Are freaking kidding me! It’s traveling to fast and it’s fmj
Why don't you have the more Popular calibers like thirty odd 6 308 Seven millimeter remington magnum
Because I gots what I gots 🤷🏻♂️ And besides, all calibers in this video *are* popular houshold names...
Of course handguns do more damage. That’s what they’re made for. Completely different design.
5,56 rules ,
You are shooting fmj 7.62
And fmj 5.56...
You're not going to get the results with FMJ's verses hunting bullets, no matter the caliber.
Watermelon has more water in it. Causing it to react better
That's a polymer tip .450 not a ballistic tip
No point in any of this, your head would never know the difference.😮
Hornady makes a great ballistic tip 7.62X39 bullet. I've killed 3 deer with that round and obliterated vitals. Funny thing is no exit wounds on the deer.
Yes but a ballistic tip 5.56 would have vaporized the cantaloupe as well...
@GunsCars this has inspired me to start a 450 Bushmaster AR build. Looking for parts right now. Affordable build, but I think the real damage will be the cost of ammo.
Yeah the ammo is ridiculously expensive right now, best to handload if possible. I just got a BCA 350 Legend upper that I'll have a video on shortly.
And they said 7.62x39 (AK47) is stronger than 5.56 (AR15) 😂😂😂… I’m sticking with AR15. Got two already I’m getting more in the future.
The Ukraine War is proof that 5.56 is the best. There's plenty of helmet camera footage of Ukrainians killing Russians at medium to long distance and at CQB distance in the trenches using 5.56 whether the Russians had body armor on or not.
You can get an Ar-15 chambered in 7.62x39
Cantalopes are hollow
Not to be that guy. But waayy too much talking. 4 minutes before the first shot..lol. talking over and over in between. Just too much..otherwise the content is cool
Always perplexes me why people don't just skip ahead if there is too much talking? But I'm glad you liked the video otherwise...
LMAO YOU DONT KNOW JACKSHT ABOUT 223 VS X39
Whatever wannabe warrior
@@BuckeyeBallistics wanna be ballistics boy
I do this for a living, so hardly wannabe on my end. Swing and a miss...
@@BuckeyeBallistics and I come from Chief blood so I am a warrior. Swing and a miss. You said 223 has more energy than a X39 which is basically a Russian 30-30. You should find a new day job
Look like youtube may have deleted my comment for telling the truth about you. In the video I blantantly said x39 has more energy, not
223- so try again...
No, they're hollow.
?
Tis a flesh wound
Next time use a coconut.
They would just vaporize lol. Here's what just a .22 pistol did to coconuts: ua-cam.com/video/hv5gyR1-etQ/v-deo.html
Too much talkin
556/223 is to wound or damage the skin of the animal, I still pick 7×62×39 for a deer doe/buck but this is shooting at melons hard to compare by melons 🍈
The 556 was designed to wound, no to kill. The idea was to take 3 men off the battlefield instead of one.
The 5.56 was also designed around a 20 inch barrel which is 3200 fps while the 16 is like 2800-2900 fps fragment and yaw happens at around 2500 fps along with way less frontal area
I’ve heard this but I’m pretty sure it’s a myth. 5.56 definitely will kill with one shot
@@nevermindme8922 not necessarily operation gothic serpent showed that 5.56 against thinner, drugged individuals it like like 3-5 shots with their fmj 5.56 can be formidable but very ammo dependent
lol sure bud
Holy Fudd lore
BS!
450 bushmaster is an excellent “brush gun”.
Try and shoot a 556 out your 223 rifle let me know how it works
I never said anyone should shoot 5.56 in a .223 chambered rifle. Once again, nice try and quit twisting my words. For the sake of this demonstration on the fruit, there is no discernable difference between .223 and 5.56 on impact, which is what I was implying- not whatever you are suggesting.
Yeah 5.56 and 223 are not the same bad advice
No advise was given, nice try though.
450 bushmaster is the guy she told you not to worry about..