Restored Steinway vs. New Yamaha: Which One is Worth it?
Вставка
- Опубліковано 19 січ 2023
- Which is worth it? In this video, you'll learn the in's and out's of
how Steinway and Yamaha pianos are made and why. What
about these pianos is similar, what is different, and how does
that determine which piano is right for you and your playing style.
Transcript:
This video will share information to consider when buying a pre-owned or restored Steinway versus a new Yamaha.
And which one is worth it? 97% of concert pianists select Steinway as their piano of choice. But is it because Steinway's quality is that much better? Or is it just good marketing? Considering that a brand-new Yamaha CX Grand costs roughly the same as a restored or pre-owned Steinway, it could be confusing to figure out the differences. While many reviews compare sound exclusively, we will look at the materials used, quality of craftsmanship, instrument longevity, and how these factors influence the sound.
Steinway & Sons have been in the piano-making business since 1853 - longer than most other piano manufacturers today. There's a reason they're considered the industry leader; they've nailed their formula. Steinway is the pioneer of the modern piano. They build their pianos to the highest quality possible and use best-in-class materials, including a cast iron harp, hard rock maple, premium wool felt, and a one-piece continuous bent rim. They handcraft each piano to ensure depth of sound and longevity. Steinway pianos are built to be restored, which allows these instruments to be cherished for generations. The biggest drawback of a new Steinway grand is the price. Typically, a new Steinway model M, which is 5' 7", can range anywhere from $90,000 to $100,000. And like a brand-new car, a piano's value depreciates as soon as it leaves the store. If you can find a high-quality restored Steinway, you'll save tens of thousands of dollars without losing the quality or integrity of the piano.
But how does it compare to a new Yamaha C-series? Well, Yamaha is a very good piano manufacturing company. They were founded in 1887, and they started crafting pianos around 1900. The big difference between Yamaha and Steinway is their piano-making philosophy. Yamaha Grands are factory mass-produced and built to a price point, which does indicate a build-to-quality difference. And specifically with the harp and rim creation. To put together the harp, Yamaha conducts a vPro vacuum shield process where molten iron is quickly vacuumed into a mold. These mass-produced harps tend to be thinner and lighter, and professionals have reported metallic sounds from the pianos that use this vPro method.
Yamaha presses the inner and outer rims together after making them, rather than all at once like Steinway. While efficient, this process could cause increased sound leaking out of the rim and can lessen the length of a note's sustain. These processes are how Yamaha makes their G and CX series grand pianos. And as of 2021, they range in price from $15,000 to $83,000. The lower price point means you'll notice significant differences in quality, manufacturing, location, wood types, harp casting method, and craftsmanship used. The Yamaha CX series is mass-produced and cost half as much as the Yamaha CF Series piano. Therefore, one must look to the CF series to find a higher-quality Yamaha. The Yamaha CF series is their high-end handcrafted piano built and priced to compete with new Steinway grands. A properly restored Steinway, however, can provide the same quality, tone, sound projection, longevity, and craftsmanship for just half the price of a new Steinway.
Ultimately, most artists care about the sound, sustain, projection, and tonal shape of each note, which is why most professionals prefer Steinways.
As of 2021, the Yamaha CX series and our Lindeblad restored Steinways, or pre-owned Steinways, have roughly the same range in price. For example, a 6' 1" Yamaha C3X costs around $58,000. And for that price, one can purchase a Lindeblad fully restored Steinway model A. Since the price range is the same, the best value is the higher-quality piano built to last - a Steinway. We conducted a poll where we reached out to music professionals who have either a bachelor's, master's, or doctorate degree in music performance. And over 90% preferred either a pre-owned or fully restored Steinway over a new Yamaha.
The more affordable Yamaha G Series is well suited for those who want a grand piano for the best possible price or want their children to learn on a grand piano. And for those who play professionally, more frequently, or desire the best sound quality and a piano to last for generations, a pre-owned or restored Steinway is a better piano to choose.
Steinway may have "nailed" their formula now but that's only been the case since the mid 1980s. I don't recall hearing any other piano makers with such massive failures as the devistating verdigris issue and failed Teflon solution they went through for decades and still haunt a majority of their pianos to this day.
When I was in university I remember playing on many broken old Steinways stashed away in dormitories, student lounges , hallways and of course practise rooms (of which the last were in good condition). One was even in a laundry room with washers and dryers. Several had keys no longer functional usually in extreme bass registers I seldom usef. Yet I recall even a broken down old Steinway was just as fulfilling to play (if not more) than a brand new instrument. The degree of control (response from a given touch input) made them feel secure, at least to a degree. And the quality of sound from keys that worked, was transparent enough ie not thick and opaque.
Subconscious bias
My Steinway Model C from 1886 was restored at the factory in Astoria and it was done with great care. The East Indian Rosewood case was fully refinished and like new. It was built with an 85 note keyboard and the original action and Ivory and Ebony keys are perfect. This piano is now on display at the Musical Instrument Museum in Phoenix, Arizona.
I've yet to sit on a restored steinway that makes me want to buy it. yamaha cx and above lines will def put a smile on your face. if you're a real musician. maybe one day i can be convinced but hasn't happened yet. and i cannot take the word of this video because they are pretty much advertising for their business.
steinway always steinway. álways
True.....These guys work for stienway...They are trying to make yamaha look bad....You can tell, cause they barely mentioned anything good about yamaha but are busy mentioning good things about stienway. They use what yamaha doesn't focus on to make the stienway look better.
I purchased a used Yamaha CF6 and can tell you the sound is just incredible.
How big is your Mansion?
Thanks for the best information.
Steinways are not built to the highest standards of quality. Yamahas are great. There are also Shigerus, Faziolis, Steingraebers. So, check the world out guys.
If you're going to compare Steinway to Yamaha at least compare a Steinway to a Yamaha CF series piano. The Yamaha C/CX is comparable to a Boston line piano and you guys know that. Steinway doesn't call their lower lines Steinways but they design them and have others build them. Boston uses the same mass production techniques Yamaha does, the same V-pro plate and they're built in a Kawai factory. Essex is a near budget line and is produced by Pearl River. A CF-series Yamaha or an Shigeru Kawai has all of the hand crafting and quality that a Steinway has.
Of course you can buy a discounted Steinway and I don't doubt you do a great job restoring them and they'll cost as much as a new Yamaha or Kawai or say Hoffman. But you can also get restored C Bechsteins or Bosendorfers or other quality European brand and get a very fine piano as well.
I agree completely.
No no no…. Boston is not comparable to CX line.
CX is so muvh better than boston gp series
Boston pianos are total shit, I would rather get Yamaha. Btw, this video should get a sequel: is it better to get a pre owned Steinway or pre owned Yamaha.
It’s also missing the SX line which beautiful pianos. I think this video is just urban legends about steinways re-hashed.
@@Cypsky After thinking and comparing for months, I went for a S3X and I am very happy, the sound is indeed beautiful. Also with respect to the CX series the action is more precise and gives you a better sense of control. I also have to say that I was also enthusiastic about the Shigeru Kawai SK-2, but I really needed the silent/MIDI electronics and Kawai does not offer it on the SK line (why? it is a mystery to me).
I have a Knabe 9' D, fully restored and the sound is magic. When compared to Steinway and the many I have heard, I admire the power and beauty of a Steinway. I have listened to the Yamaha's and they are for the most part too bright, too clinical perhaps - something just is not right. I don't get that warm and fuzzy sound that hugs you. In the concert hall, the Steinway is a pillar every time - well most of the time. Depends on the piano and how well it was set up. But my Knabe, when played quietly has a sound from heaven that goes right throuh you. Each to ther own. For me, I would not buy a Yamaha unless I could modify it a lot.
Years ago I worked as an usher at the Dorothy Chandler Pavilion at the Los Angeles Music Center(it is right next to the Disney Concert Hall, which used to be a parking lot where I parked my car), and I saw the late-Arthur Rubinstein(1887-1982)'s last Los Angeles performance before he retired; and people was snatching up the program from me, and many taking multiple copies, at that time I didn't know who he was. What amazed me was that a great many people brought their own copies of the music with them, and they followed as he played. So what brand of piano did he use
354 / 5 000
Rubinstein played Steinways with some exceptions.
Following the score when Rubinstein plays is nothing but crassness and laughable snobbery.
A master can have the score in hand when a musician or an orchestra plays his work, in rehearsal or rigorously even in concert. But a spectator doing this is rude and a fool. :)
@@paulpomme2502 Criticizing REAL musicians (and composers especially) who value the score above all else is nothing but uneducated gatekeeping. If you can't read music, that's your problem... Those who follow along as an artist brings the blueprint to life are having a much richer, deeper, and more respectful experience than you could ever understand. The NPD prison in which you have locked yourself... The blind adherence to social constructs over actual shared experience, that is what is killing classical music today. Obviously your NPD is triggered by score readers... I'd suggest you learn to read... That will correct the problem!
@@ivaluemyprivacy2494 Ridiculous. Your petty insults don't even make sense. And it's you who clearly can't read: the person is talking about Rubinstein on stage, not anybody.
I think I may have been at that show at the DCP with Rubenstein. I was about 9 or 10 which would have put the concert in 1973 or 1974. It was an amazing night! We had front row center seats as he played an all Chopin recital!
Thank you. That was clear and educational. Tradition wins!
I have played Steinway and Yamaha. I'll take a Yamaha any day. Steinway has a tinny overtone where Yamaha has a warm overtone. I feel that steinway is more of a for show... "ooooh he has a Steinway."
The newer Steinways have a tinny sound. The old ones from, say, fifty years ago and more, are very warm.
TRUE
You confused the 2 brands 😂
You guys look like you do excellent craftsmanship by restoring these pianos, and it's a plus that you have some former Steinway guys on staff. You guys may even do the best quality Steinway restorations around this side of the Atlantic, otherwise you guys wouldn't be around for so many generations and have such a large staff and facility.
However, it would be nice to hear actual identically mic'd pianos in the same room with the same pianist, or have different pianists play both without knowing which was which. Asking which do you prefer: Steinway or Yamaha is a bit of "leading question." To keep it scientific and to get a truly unbiased perspective, you need to ask these same piano performance majors/graduates to test several pianos in the same hall blindfolded. And several pianos of the same size and price range. Such as Fazioli, Mason & Hamlin, Bosendorfer Imperial, Steinway D (new), Steinway D (restored), Shigeru Kawaii, Yamaha CFX, Petrof, Baldwin SD-6 etc. Tape over the marquee names and call the pianos by letters rather than by their names. Now out of this lot, ask them to pick their favorite one. Now THAT would be interesting! Syncron Stage Vienna has the only video here on youtube demonstrating these pianos side by side in the same room.
I've never played a piano that I've known to have been restored by Lindeblad, I have played dozens of "restored" Steinways of various sizes, and the quality of the restoration has been very hit or miss. Some sounded unimpressive and if I were blindfolded I would not have even known it was a steinway. Yet, one of the best pianos I've ever played was a partially restored Steinway D that cosmetically looked like it was pretty beat.
On the other hand, the quality and sound of yamahas are much more consistent, distinct and brighter. Although they do command a premium in the resale market, good used ones can be had for a fraction of a Steinway. Not only that, but a 7' Yamaha C7 that may be 15-30 years old can be obtained for half the price (or even less) of a smaller Steinway. Steinways can be great, but many people over-pay for the marquee and don't let their ears and fingers make the purchasing decision.
All true! Only blind testing of various piano brands will make a fair scientific comparison of sound quality. There is no question that piano snobbery plays a role in judging the "quality" of most pianos. Asian pianos just don't have the same reputation and cachet as Steinways and other highly respected European brands so the latter are usually judged as producing higher quality sound. I say that despite the fact that I own a restored Steinway model L. In addition, every piano even of the same model and manufacturer is unique and the single most important aspect of the evaluation of piano sound quality is the talent and skill of the pianist and not the name on the fallboard.
@@pborgia1 Agree. Honestly I go more for the individual piano than the name on the fallboard. There are some Steinways I hear that are incredible and others that are just OK. And that's true of C. Bechstein, Bosendorfer, Fazioli, Shigeru Kawai, Yamaha SX and CF, Mason and Hamlins and on and on. In fact, sometimes I like a middle-level Hoffman or Kawai RX/GX better than a high line instrument because it is just something special about it. Pianos are very individual.
@@benjaminsmith2287 So we agree. You could convince me that the high end pianos use better materials and better construction and therefore have more musical "potential" and longevity in the hands of a careful technician. But at least one important factor in the cost of the high end pianos comes from the reputation of the manufacturer. That is no where more obvious in rebuilt pianos. For the most part only high end pianos like Steinways and Masons are rebuilt because only they command a resale price that exceeds the cost of the rebuilding.
@@pborgia1 And Yamaha makes high-end pianos. So does Kawai. But even some of Yamaha's conservatory models are refurbished. Really, what's left of the high-end pianos are sometimes the soundboards but mostly the rims. Steinway has the name. Mason, not really, not with lay people. Yamaha has a different reputation but they're everywhere as well and people will buy refurbished Yamaha conservatory pianos as they're familiar with them (albeit at a lower cost).
Thanks
I love my Kawai 😁
The Yamaha C7 Grand Piano is the most recorded piano in music history for a reason. To do that while competing against the Steinway brand name shows you how much better the instrument must be to overcome that hurdle.
I watched a Steinway artist at a concert at a local college that had a Steinway and a Bösendorfer Imperial 290 on stage. He played everything on the 290.
Steinways are great pianos but they’re not so flawless that they are the only viable choice in every professional situation.
Yamahas are mentioned with Steinway because they are that good but in a different way.
Only have a grand piano any brand is already so good to me I will cry lf happinnes, Sorry if there are grammar mistakes
Yamaha cf is a good piano in the 80s yamaha S400B is a very high end piano now after so many years of research I am confident it will be comparable to German piano like kawai shiguru piano is a very good piano in term of touch responsive keys and sound❤❤
Please explain how Steinway can ignore or dispute the abundance of terrible, sometimes untuneable false beats in their pianos. Especially in the treble section.
They sound like someone talking with a blocked nose
Steinway is better for collection and family heirloom type. Yamaha just sounds better in performance. Considering you’re getting the high end model Yamaha
Can you explain what you mean by high end model Yamaha? What would be the price range for a low end & high end Yamaha piano?
@@jimmythegent1445 the lower end Yamahas are like lower end pianos of other brands. From $2000 to $8000. The high end Yamahas I’m talking about at the ones that are like $30,000 up to the Yamaha CFX which is like $300,000
@@jimmythegent1445 I have a digital setup which totals about $5000 including computer, software, and piano. Getting a realistic hammer action digital piano and a high end piano VST is way better than getting an acoustic. I’d recommend a digital first then once you can afford a high end piano switch. A $5000 digital setup will always demolish a $5000 acoustic piano.
Yamaha is better fot more yong players and Steinway for all around player .
For Myself , like the Yamaha more the other pianos .
Starting about 2:00, the man telling us about vaccuuming molten iron to make a harp is just laughable!!! (Btw, real piano builders call them "plates", tech-ignorant pianists and salesmen call then harps.) And the bit about people sensing a metallic sound because of Yamaha's plate process is unfounded, ignorant, and absurd.
I’d much prefer a good Mason and Hamlin. Especially if it was built in the last 15 years. Or, if I wanted a European piano, I’d choose a Bluthner.
What about an 1896 C.bechstein grand working not renewed or reconditioned Vs New KAWAI K-300 ?
How much to restore a steinway ? i am in CA
It depends on the model of Steinway and what work is going to be done. If you can reach out to info@lindebladpiano.com or 888.587.4266, we can provide you with an estimate after we collect more information. Thanks!
I dont have money for both i just got second hand
Quite a lot of video to not even show them head to head.
The piano music is too loud at times, making hearing the narration harder than it needs to be.
Buy an Estonia instead
These dudes probably work for stienway. And want us to buy it, well unlucky for them. Nice try but No thank you
Yamaha
Yamahas feel, sound and age better at a superior price in all situations. Steinways feel stiff, tinny and are finicky to maintain.
(versus)
You're comparing apples to oranges...an analysis of new vs restored Steinway would have been useful information.
Yeah, you guys obviously don’t sell Yamaha pianos, so I think your infomercial is just a little biased.
"verse"???
Restored? That's blasphemy considering that you're stripping a vintage Steinway of its innards that actually made it so unique. You're refurbishing pianos and you're talking badly about Yamaha.
Disgusting, both as a piano lover and someone looking at business practice.
quite a bunch of Baloney here
degrees says nothing about hearing a nd musicality. nothing at all.
I agree with you completely and I have degrees in performance from the Juilliard School.
steinway: godlike sound yamaha common sound álways. listen to the ringing sound of a steinway. it's godlike.
I have to agree with you on that
steinway overrated
steinway always steinway. álways