The Place of this War in Human History |
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- Опубліковано 28 вер 2024
- The 17th Annual Meeting of Yalta European Strategy (YES) - “Ukraine: Defending all Our Freedom” - was held from September 9-10, 2022 in Kyiv. Over 400 leading politicians, diplomats, businessmen, civil activists, and experts from more than 20 countries took part in the conference organized by YES in partnership with the Victor Pinchuk Foundation.
Speeches:
• Timothy Snyder, Richard C. Levin Professor of History, Yale University, quotes: yes-ukraine.or...
• Niall Ferguson, Senior Fellow, Hoover Institution, Stanford University, quotes: yes-ukraine.or...
• Serhii Plokhii (online), Director, Ukrainian Research Institute, Harvard University, quotes: yes-ukraine.or...
• Anne Applebaum (moderator), Staff Writer, The Atlantic, quotes: yes-ukraine.or...
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"The moment you pick a larger force and you say that force is giving me freedom you are doing something which will take your own freedom away". - Prof. Timothy Snyder.
Good shot! EU is already proving this parable! Ukraine is going to copy the Eus primrose path!
Grateful to be in attendance at this very full 45 minutes with the brillant Prof. Snyder. Anne Applebaum, thank you!
Timothy Snyder has really some amazing and concrete insights. Cherish this man!
Fully agreed 👍
Timothy got so much in his thoughts! I just love listening to him.
Timothy Snyder has an awesome Ukrainian language. I didn’t even thought he can speak Ukrainian. Great!
Yeah, that was unexpected. I knew that he used to learn polish and I heard some phrases in Ukrainian from him in the past
He speaks many languages...
@@gveregregor9965 He actually learnt Polish to fluency. He's really great.
It is reported he can speak five languages and read in ten.
This is brilliant. I am so grateful to have discovered it. These are essential perspectives, quite neglected in most conversations
A great discussion. Timothy Snyder is an incredible historian who speaks out the truth. Plokhy also is a wise person, I just finished reading his book about the war on Ukraine in German translation, which was very insightful and gives good information on the background of the war and its historical roots. Also the major events of said war are clearly pointed out. This discussion was very good, also the humorous parts of a scenario of the future where Russia or Moscow and it’s ruins becomes a museum. It is a great hope for the future.
Very interesting discussion. Thanks to everyone.
Thanks to Timothy I want to learn history.
Listen to the Yale lecture series by him. Making of modern Ukraine. If you have not already
Brilliant discussion and panel. They made the view of this bloody war much wider. I would have liked mention of President Biden and his government and the strong support they give and more is needed.
Thank you for providing this conversation to those interested. It was both fascinating and enlightening to hear the perspectives of all those on the panel. Loved the comment "This is the message I want to convey- Ukraine can win this war." I have no doubt.
it would be great if these three historian will make another discussion about this subject
Correx: Anne Applebaum is also a well known historian. She wrote e.g. "The red famine" (about 4 million ukrainian peasants starved/killed by Stalin in 1932/33, the so called "Holodomor").
@@wernertognetti5956 An excellent treatment of Stalin's "holodomor" is the 2016 movie "Mr. Jones." It's on the tube.
This war will be remembered as an avoidable war which ended the same way it should have ended in failed negotiations in April 2022.
Great discussion but too short! Could have continued for at least half an hour longer.
Why do you think Europeans understand their history less than you do? I find it arrogant and false.
We see them hurrying, while the might of Germany glowered up against them to grasp their share of the pillage and ruin of Czechoslovakia
Are you really going to get an objective discussion, in Kiev during the war, with a title like that?
Too bad Niall Ferguson was involved. Ferguson has no insight into what is happening in Ukraine.
I agree, I've read several of his books and he is an apologist for the British empire, he is also incorrect in saying that it is over and the English have come to terms with that.
What was brexit but a great convulsion of the last dying gasps of it, and attempt to avoid EU tax investigation into the loot stored in UK possession tax havens, the UK itself is the rump remains of this empire and it is in the process of disintegration with the inevitability of Scottish independence and Irish reunification.
Ferguson should turn his attention to his area of experience instead.
I am more sympathetic to Ferguson he can be quite insightful in his books, although he is an attention seeker. I thought the strangest argument he made was that the UK caused the disaster of the First World War and should have stayed out of it.
I thought the ascent of money was worth reading though. As for the British Empire probably it will be another hundred years before an impartial assessment can be done.
@@atb8660 Yes, it's interesting to speculate on the history of the 20th century if Britain had stood aside, it's stunning that he doesn't see parallels between the decline of the British and Russian empires, both undefeated militarily but both in their death throes.
I loaned the money book to a guy I considered investing with and I never saw it again! Needless to say I didn't trust him with my money lol.
07:38ish: 'freedom is part of happiness ... ethics are part of history ... freedom of speech is saying something you are willing to put yourself on the line for... that's what Perecles was talking about in his funeral oration... working within them [the forces] and trying to change them
👍
History is written by the victors, in this case the American empire.
Snyder's history is like reading a wonderful novel--you're never sure what is true, but it is written like poetry, as historical research should always be.
I think a lot of Britons still think of their country as a world power that won the second world war.... Not the subject of this discussion, but a reason for the Brexit.
Hey historians, you guys have accidentally travelled in a defective time machine, made in China, into a decade that's 30 years beyond your limited comprehension. Sad that only one historian is wearing a black tie, it does show your disoriented unity. Welcome to a new era of ENLIGHTENMENT.
This war is a part of humanity's ongoing Clueless Era (as defined by the Philosoohy of Broader Survival). This era will have it's own museum wing in museums of the coming Enlightened Era (as defined by the philosophy - read it).
How do you say Ick ein Berliner for Ukraine
No David Irving?
She should have opened food banks all over Ukraine and Russia in 1932 - 1933. She is a genius. She is also up to no good, most likely. In 1932 and 1933, the United States should have set up food camps in every district of Ukraine, Japan, Africa and Asia. The average lawmaker of European national origin will want to feed Europeans. She should have set up many food camps in all places where there was hunger, most likely. No local leader, communist or Democrat or Republican would have stopped her from setting up food camps in rural areas of Ukraine during a holodor (famine) most likely. Action speaks for itself. She is up to no good. She should have tossed out chocolates to the children of Tokyo from the window of her aircraft windows in 1949. She is up to no good. For instance, I had once decided to open a food bank in south east Oklahoma City, Has she ever done that?
Two words: Too short.
Niall is wickedly brilliant.
Neil is just another clown Like zelensky.
The most important reason for this war is forgotten: to have an excuse to occupy the throne for czar Putin, who knows that the time for oil and gas to rule is over.
It might not be remembered because there will be no one to remember it.
От Дуная до Днепра жили дако геты их разные народы называли влахами сарматам украйнцами но это дако геты из румыний Молдове и украйны
When smart people are delusional it is a curious sight, indeed.
Und was denkt Wolfgang Ischinger darüber? Das Panel scheint ihn zu beeindrucken.
As soon as I hear "it's democracy vs autoritarianism" I know all the rest will be American fairy tale.
@@aramisio2 When is America going to become a normal state instead of a rogue state?
@@aramisio2 That's really nice. You want a nuclear war.
@@dvforever Jesus. Your fear-mongering is nothing but despicable.
Agreed, you know immediately what's coming next
All crappy talking without rational thinking. America is declining and UK..
I know.. thank god russia still got it 🤣🤣🤣
@@MissAnastasiyaD You both are living in dreamland. Ukraine is Putin's Waterloo....You are watching the quick disintegration of Russia as I type this. Azerbaijan has just attacked Russian backed Armenia, Tajikistan and Uzbekistan are now firing upon each other, soon Romania and Moldova will retake Transnistria and Georgia will retake Abkhazia and South Ossetia....
@@Telluwide man, you don't understand sarcasm. But you know your news, I'll give you that)
Timothy Snyder sure likes to speak.....
You might notice speaking is why they are on the stage with . microphones
Future students in whatever becomes of Moscow controlled area will study history featuring Зелинский Великий and Путин ужасный.
Wow . Propaganda .
A few minutes of Snyder and... my God what convoluted flatulence. Not able to make truly cogent points, they can only dazzle with wan manipulation.
But learnt the dialect .......whatever it belongs to.......
Be very wary of speakers from academia. As they draw their compensation from the establishment.
And instead trust random tweets from the guys in their basements?
@@merriferrell2818 Trust only proven facts.
@@klarachiamarsi5935 "Only proven facts"
Unless they contradict your narrative in which case they are "from the establishment".
Da da da..... 🙄
@@rappakalja5295 Facts are facts. No matter who say them, you can always check them out in the open sources. If they are not in the open sources, thay are not reliable.
Big neocon sludgefest
Snyder is incredible.
I just finished watching his series of 23 lectures from a class that just wrapped at Yale, The Making of Modern Ukraine. People are paying thousands of dollars to hear him talk and this is on UA-cam for free.. we're so unbelievably fortunate.
I graduated from Yale College, and have my graduate degrees from that university..and Prof. Snyder's "History of Ukraine" class ranks with very best of the great lecture classes I had a Yale, including John Blum's 20th c. American History.
I have listened to most of Prof. Snyder's lectures more than once, and often did so with maps open and simultaneous searches with Britannica online for reference. Prof. Snyder's work is transformative, and if nothing else his class makes everything we have to listen to now about Ukraine and Europe, all the arguments and discussions, infinitively more compelling. By instinct and generation I am reluctant to ever be a proponent of American military intervention, and the political arguments (and those who make them), made in support of it....But Prof, Snyder's class dramatically has reconfigured all my initial suppositions and prejudices...and humbled me. He is a gift to Yale, our country, and the world.
I fell the same. I'm Polish and from form professor's Snyder lectures about Ukraine I learn also about polish history. But what I like above all is his human point of view
W
The Snyder guy is a woke professor from Yale; I went through his 23 23-part lectures on the making of Modern Ukraine. It is full of falsehoods, as Ukraine never existed until 1922. It was a small region with in the Polish Lithuanian Commonwealth and part of the Mongol Empires and then by Russia.
Most of the time in the lecture, he speaks about the Polish Lithuanian Commonwealth and not about Ukraine, which never existed until 1922, no matter how he spins it.
The Viking Kyivian Rus were destroyed by the Mongols in 1142 and disappeared.
The Ukrainians had no links with the Ottomans or the Crimean Khanate and never even had a Black Sea Coast until the Bolsheviks were out of Ukraine together.
There is no reference to the word Ukraine in any Treaty from the advent of Time until 1918.
So obviously, you are not a student of History and are a UA-cam Historian,
It's time to read Robert Mogocis's work in Central Europe and Ukraine. He is from the University of Toronto!
So you should revise your comment!
@@Espiritu-o7x There was never a Ukrainian Cossack State in 1650 - it was the Zaporizhzia Cossack Sich, not Polish Lithuanian, not Russian, and certainly not Ukrainian.
The Zaporzhzian Sich sought protection against the Polish Lithuanian Commonwealth and aligned themselves with the Tzar of Russia.
The Rus were Varanagan Vikings, not Slavic people, and there were no remains of the Viking people after the Mongols sacked Kyiv.
Ukrainian is an Salvonic Language.
Again, as Snyder tells us, you use word splicing to project your misaligned beliefs that Ukraine existed in 1654.
Professor Snyder’s lectures will not pass peer-to-peer scrutiny. He accepts payment from Ukraine to rewrite the history of Ukraine, which is a fatal mistake for the credibility of a historian.
There is a book on the Pereiaslav Agreement from the Centre of Canadian Ukrainian Studies by Pavlo Sokhan
Переяславська Рада 1654 року.
Please show me a certified map of Ukraine in 1654; none exist; it was the Polish Lithuanian Commonwealth, which only extended around Kyiv.
Polish East Galicia and Volhynia were annexed by the Ukrainian SSR in 1939 and encompassed the cities of Lyiv, Stanislaw, and Lutsk.
Berrassarabia from Romania was only added to the Odesa Oblast in 1945.
Next, we will have the Ukrainian Don Cossacks, the Ukrainian Kuban Cossacks, and the Ukrainian Tatars of Tatarstan in Kazan. Next we will have Helena of Troy as a Ukrainian Goddess!
Ukraine is just full of nonsense. Ukraine as a nation only existed in 1922 when the Bolsheviks founded the Ukrainian SSR, encompassing the Russian Empire's cities in the Black Sea and the Sea of Azov.
Professor Snyder is incredibly eloquent and informative, and there is also a very simple phrase which is used often by Americans who are not so learned, but which seems to reflect some of the same ideas: Freedom isn't free.
Timothy Snyder is an absolute genius! To the point where you feel smarter just by listening to him 🤓
Listening to Rap Music you'll be smarter still!
Great point about Zelenski addressing directly to the people of other nations as opposed to their leaders.
The German government did what it did only due to the public pressure (and notable minority forces from the ruling coalition). They proved to be politicians, not leaders.
"The German government did what it did only due to the public pressure (and notable minority forces from the ruling coalition). They proved to be politicians, not leaders."
And rightly so. GER is not the babysitter of UA. UA is neither an EU nor a NATO member. Furthermore GER didn´t sign the Budapest memorandum. Therefore GER got no obligation whatsoever towards UA.
@@kodor1146 You are missing the point. The Germans want to help Ukraine fight Putin so they don't have to do it themselves. Well, those with brains want it.
Scholz's government does otherwise. Or tries to.
Is that democracy?
Schroeder is on Gazprom board. Paid by Putin. And they couldn't even kick him out of the party.
Is that democracy?
@@kodor1146 Yes it has. It colonized Ukraine during WWII. Hitler wanted Ukraine for "Lebensraum". So Germany is still responsible today.
@@junglecat_rant " It colonized Ukraine during WWII.
What happened during the Nazi time got nothing to do with colonialism. Colonialism is sth. totally different. The Germans don´t have a colonial view on UA or the Eastern Bloc in general.
"So Germany is still responsible today."
Here I beg to differ either. The Germans got no responsibility towards UA whatsoever. And... good so. The idea of being responsible for someone or something beyond mutually agreed contracts is an inherently paternalistic idea of one's own position. You are responsible for people to whom you have a closer relationship and who cannot take responsibility for themselves, or with regard to obligations for which you have some kind of authorization to act. You can be sure that no Ukrainian wants to be paternalistically patronized by the Germans.
@@kodor1146 Bunk. Germany needs to stop hiding behind its past so that it can pretend it can ignore reality and just continue to do business as usual with anybody who will pay like a prostitute. This is a matter of ethics and morality and narrow legal definitions are the weasle words of cowards.
Always fascinating to hear Timothy Snyder speak. It's a shame he wasn't given more time. Also would have liked to hear questions from the audience.
Time wasted on Ferguson.
You can listen to history classes at Yale
he is one of the great intellectuals who make sense of this war
@@tonybooth4 Oh yeah the Yale lectures on UKR are excellent!
Snyder and Applebaum have been great for bringing perspective during this war. 19:08 GET IT MAN!!!
A great discussion. We are living at a time when awareness of history is especially important. None of what is going on would be understandable without that awareness. How lucky we are that at such a time we have such a diverse group who really know their stuff, and speak about it publicly.
When it comes to "eastern Europe", not too long ago, we were lucky to have an American historian that had some reading knowledge of Russian. Today we have American historians who are fluent in multiple languages in this sphere beyond Russian (I can vouch for the fact that both Timothy and Anne understand and speak Polish with a fluency that just in itself is inspiring). At the same time we have historians in these countries who can speak and write in English and who are in active communication with each other, and thus comprehend a history that goes beyond merely reflecting the received views of one particular national history. Thanks to the research, writing, teaching, and public speaking of these historians it is now possible for the average English speaker to develop a level of understanding of this history that previously was only found in the case of dedicated experts and a few exceptional refugees.
It's POSSIBLE for people to learn to understand history, but people don't. For instance, probably 90% of the American population right now thinks that there was no fighting in Ukraine before February of this year, and that everything was just dandy until Russia invaded completely unprovoked out of nowhere. When history actively contradicts government propaganda, government propaganda almost always wins.
He lies sooo much in his lections on russian and ukranian history. He is not a scientist, but a propaganist.
@@Ballosopheraptor We are living in a situation where propaganda often wins in the short-term. In the long-run history wins. But we don't have the luxury of waiting to be told we were wrong. So, yes, we have a problem. There are many reasons for this. Snyder discusses some in "On Tyranny".
BTW, I'm hoping that at least 20% in the US know about the invasion of Crimea and the "little green men" there and in the separatist regions. But I'm not in the US. Unfortunately, in other countries they may know more, but there are also more sophisticated myths supported by propaganda and idiocy.
The basic problem is that:
Most people are good, and are willing to do the right thing, and would like to help.
The small set of people who really know what's going on have tended to be among the privileged, and unless there is a strong civil society to support them, they will tend to fall in line with the corrupt elites, or remain silent.
It's an old problem and there are many reasons for hope. One obstacle is that more and more people are now realizing how bad things are and give up hope, without realizing that things were even worse in the past.
@@maff272 If you can find a factual error in his work, it would be good of you to share you insight (i.e. to cite the evidence to the contrary).
Loved the question about how this war is different from the others and LOVED the answers!
This war is also about Russias inferiority complex.
It is about effectively misusing state controlled mass media for manipulating the feelings of war trauma of every Russian family that had lost relatives, while protecting the country from fascism.
Дякую, дуже цікава дискусія 🙏🏼💙💛
Wow, what a treat! I admire all three speakers and have books by all three. Much food for thought here. Thank you so much for sharing it!
Same here 👍
Audience questions? Major fumble/Lost opportunity. Anne Applebaum added nothing. Furguson didn't do any homework and just coasted, uselessly. This was a Timothy Snyder show, whose insights are accessible and poignant, as usual. Everyone else was just in the way.
Timothy Snyder (5:24), "We've noticed over the last 15 years that it is not just freedom and democracy that we are losing, we are also losing the words and the concepts of freedom and democracy."
Exactly. But this has been going on for some time, especially in Western universities. This is post-modernism.
No, it's not realpolitik. This one is much worse. Besides we don't live in the time of realpolitik.That was the time of Nixon and Kissinger, the 1960s and early 1970s. That's long gone. We live in the time of globalization, of "social justice," of "The Grand Narrative." Of post-modernism.
Once just a plaything of professors, it has now become a major force in reshaping the world. It has had tremendous influence on many organizations in the former Soviet Union, in Russia, and especially on the FSB, on characters like Dugin, and on Putin himself. At the same time it has influenced many Western leaders, such as Klaus Schwab.
Everywhere, it's influence has been thoroughly negative. It encourages getting rid of whatever is left of ethics, truth and honor, reason, logic and common sense (the concepts it completely dismisses), and instead concentrating on personal and group ambitions, power games, trickery, deception and self-deception, etc.
This war in Ukraine is the first post-modernist war. Whatever does not fit the ideology is immediately twisted beyond all recognition. And whenever the ideology itself gets stuck, it is exchanged for an other one. All in a completely shameless manner. Freedom can mean anything one wants, so can democracy. Anything can mean anything. The connection between a word and its meaning is broken. Communication becomes impossible. Where communication becomes impossible, fists and weapons start speaking.
It blew me away when I saw that the Conference was held IN Kyiv, Ukraine!
In a Nation at WAR, defending itself from Russian Agression!
At the 9:37 Mark, I noticed what are two Soldiers, probably Ukrainian, with earphones in their ears, probably listening to this in Ukrainian.
I wonder what they are thinking!
Slava Ukrainia!
Russian liberation, not aggression. Because of that all the scum from all over the world can send idiotic messages to brainwashed Ukrs.
What a shame...
As is evident now. November 2022, the Russians could have ended this conference any time they wanted, non lethally just by hitting the local power grid lol.
Ferguson should have used a more familiar British Empire as an example instead of Roman Empire. Where tourists also go to see the stolen treasures from all over the world.
But he did, didn't he? He talked about the decline of the British Empire.
@@junglecat_rant The queen "managing with as much dignity as possible the unraveling of an empire." "Rome makes you think the history of empire, like no other place. . . Tourists would wander around Moscow the way they wander around Rome today, looking at the ruin of the Kremlin." Tourists are wandering in London and seeing all the ancient artifacts that the British plundered and refused to return and kept all those evidentiary items with British "dignity." I say that's a better example.
People who think and write about history talking about the future sitting in a place making history.
Gross
Great talk! It blows my mind to see those people sitting in Kyiv, capital of a country waging war on its territory.
The US wages war on Ukrainian territory.
we are not waging any war. ruzzia is.
@Alexis Z. elaborate
If this panel had also included Stephen Kotkin, it would pretty much have been the dream team.
Funny how Fergusson was a huge fan of french and british empires (which destroyed more than half of the world and completely eliminated a number of nations) in his controversial books but turned into antiimperialist in the case of Russia
Destroyed half the world-how hyperbolic nonsense. India is far better after colonization as are most former colonies
I'm still trying to get my head around the notion of America being an empire. Yes, America has far reaching influence and acts around the world based on its own interests, but there is a distinct line between that and empirical ambitions...
@@tj2636 Dudebwe still have imperial possessions from Samoa to Puerto Rico.
it's the same dirty old war. and the same culprits. blind is the one who does not see it.
Ferguson's speech drips with bloodthirst, absolutely deranged. And his comments about empire are wildly inconsistent with his own unrepentant shilling for British imperialism. His understanding of the history of the Roman and Russian empires is also hilariously shallow, and frankly Gibbonian. How this man is allowed to speak beside Snyder is beyond me. He seems to be less of a historian than Dan Carlin, more of an ideologue, and a silly one at that.
Total ….
Snyder just talks about nothing. It’s nonsense. I’ve never heard of him so carry no prejudice
@@paulgrieve7031 you seem to opine from a position of ignorance.
No Timothy Synder you are ignorant, you should read more…. In political science Realism (Realpolitik) is not similar to Nihilism.
Realism: is to believe in common sense, value power, deal with facts, be practical and responsible, see other’s self-interests and perspectives.
Nihilism: (ideology of nothing) is to not believe in anything and appeasing with facts and pessimism.
Liberalism (idealism)
You (Timothy) are liberal neoconservative idealist, who believes to prioritize their beliefs and fanatic ideologies over realities, usually overlook others cultures to push their political doctrines. Similar people got us into unnecessary disastrous wars that took us no where because of their liberal hegemonies.
Ukraine can win the war against Russia? Don't deceive each other there, discus about peace so that Ukraine should not continue loosing Land and it's people. God bless Ukraine civilians.
I love idea, that Kremlin wii be new ruin Colloseum
Excellent. Thank you.
Tim Snyder is awesome!!! Really one of my favs since he wrote Bloodlands.
He is a great lier also. At least in his yale lections on russian and ukranian history. A propagandist under cover
@@maff272 You obviously, just met Dr Snyder.
I’ve been a huge fan of Dr. Snyder since 2010 when he wrote Bloodlands. Truly a classic piece of work. I was shocked in my shear ignorance on the subject matter, I formally thought I knew before.
I’m sure your doctorate from Oxford maybe on a different subject my friend? but Dr Snyder is the real deal. What a great guy too.
Bloodlands is great read. I’m sure you own a copy.
This Yale course has been a joy. It’s well worth the audit.
If you’re a Russian troll from the farm? Pack your bags friend. You’ll be on your way to the front soon enough.
@@steve-real sorry are you schizofrenic? He is lying in his course, ignoring historical archival sources etc etc . Just a lier
@@maff272 You’re post graduate work in Russo-Ukrainian history was a fail. But there is hope for you. Just buckle down and keep working on your studies. I believe in you!
Just propaganda from the same side of the Atlantic! What a shame.
Snyder speaks Ukrainian, as well as others, and has a deep knowledge of Eastern European history. Ferguson is Dr. rent-a-quote who hates playing second or third fiddle. 😄
Haha. You're on to something... And yet Neill is showing up in Kiev and is not as an expert of east european history as Prof Snyder. Two great historians and voices of Ukraines victory!
So true…tremendous ego
Ferguson is alright, I know other historians snipe at him for being attention hungry and there might be some truth to that. Synder also writes good books…. well Bloodlands is the only one I have read….
Nonsense
Snyder is rent a woke. His English is appalling and his words make as much sense turned upside down. The EU is a trendy empire. Snyder does not understand Europe or real history. He’s some kind of social scientist who lives in a world of social scientists.
Admittedly Niall spoke poorly today. It’s a bland discussion. Listen to Niall on Good Fellows.
an excellent discussion and panel. The broader historical perspective is extremely important, especially from a stance outside Western Europe. Thank you.
Have read several books by snyder and Ferguson. Great reads and very insightful.
An ENORMOUS number of words to convey quite simple concepts. The history of the EU is the story of the suffering of individual human beings in emasculated and militarily-occupied countries. 🇪🇺🇨🇵 Better together 😉.
I have to admit. We lost our empire in this exact situation. It would be poetic justice if Russia lost. We created a monster with the loss in poltava.
this is some neocon vomit. Imagine how a stephen cohen RIP or John Mearsheimer would tear these shills apart.
It is kind of ironic to see the Oligarchy organizers of the event who are guilty of leaving Ukraine unprotected after the Budapest Memorandum, were criticized to their face and called out being described as "an oppressive state". 😂
No mention of NATO.
Excellent
I doubt Snyder has heard of it
This was a product of the discussions location and theme. This is not how great historians need to operate. They need to operate and be based in a completely unbiased setting and present a variety of perspectives. There is no mention of the key figures, agreements, and discussions as the Warsaw Pact was intentionally disbanded. What is especially distressing is that these men must know the truth about Zelensky and who is behind him. There is no discussion about the US led regime change and the vast corruption and suspect democracy that honestly is Ukraine today. For brilliant historical minds to be placed in this propaganda setting it is unsettling. Western democracy is unraveling due to neoliberal global elitists interfering in every facet of the potentially progressive liberal nation-states political processes. These men MUST know this. Instead, Ferguson rails on about "empire". He referred to Russia today as an empire? NATO has projected itself as an empire of sorts. This notion that Putin's next target is London is complete balderdash and these men know it. This war was brought on by the proxy state that has blocked negotiations over the treatment of ethnic Russians in the Donbass and the stated goals of NATO to get Ukraine to join in the encirclement of Russia that president after president lied to the Russians would not happen. They all conveniently never mentioned it. Honestly, it's shameful. They are not alone in the modern historical spin doctors. Fact: Document 119 of the Gorbechev Foundation repeatedly states that in a meeting on February 9th, 1990 James Baker reassured him NATO would not expand. My question is, why did it not disband? If it had, many bombing campaigns and deaths would have never happened and this war most likely would have been avoided. As these men are now on the verge of their predictions two years ago being wrong, this is an important lookback.
Pericles's Speech is NOT a good example. The Athenians were NOT fighting for Democracy in the war he was promoting or their way of life. They entered a war of choice to preserve their empire. Yes, the Athenians did it democratically, that is true and exceptional. But the war the Athenians chose to enter democratically was an imperial war. It was NOT intended to spread democracy in any shape or form. Nor could it be in the Ancient context. It is closer to the US in Vietnam, Afghanistan or Iraq though of course the analogy is very imperfect
More weapons for Ukraine and more sanctions against Russia and less talk. Snyder, Ferguson and Applebaum provide excellent intellectual entertainment, however what they say does not really matter now in the middle of war.
It matters because what they have to say is important and is convincing people to hold steadfast in support of Ukraine. Unfortunately not everyone is convinced, and people waver in their support. It is necessary to continue making the case.
Years ago I remember watching a tourist going round Moscow and he was filming and just commenting and he wasn’t being derogatory at all, nothing negative and yet he was followed and then questioned. He was fine and managed to explain himself etc but what is the mentality of that. Why are they so suspicious and paranoid. This isn’t even recently but years ago. You wouldn’t be followed and questioned round Western countries or European countries in that manner purely because you are a visitor or a holiday maker. It was so bizarre.
Maybe some "vatnics". Check term rashism. 20 years of propaganda and Moscovia became a fascist state.
Rodriguez Donna White Maria Perez Patricia
At 23:23, is that Kuchma in the audience?
That is him.
@@mepo5673 Yes. He is a father in law of Victor Pinchuk, Ukrainian billionaire and oligarch who is the organizer of this forum. They sit next to each other.
I'll have to read some Serhii as I have read the others, Applebaum and Snyder are such excellent authors. Loving the Snyder, Yale course on Ukraine history that you can watch on here.
I don't know, first time I hear this fella and I expected a more objective perspective. The responsability of the US and even Selensky in this war is huge, and we are talking about powers with nuclear wapons. Selensky saying "we neeed more money, more wapons and bla,bla..." Its risking lifes all over the world.
See 1991 as 1919. US Victory in WW1 in 1918 like victory in the Cold War in 1989-90 is followed by the hardest imposed settlement on Russia in 1991 imposed by Robert Gates and Henry Kissinger which is equivalent to the actions of RN fleet leader Admiral Beatty who is determined to destroy the High Seas fleet, and forces it to scuttle and French Premier Clemanceau who forces who forces a draconian settlement in damages and industrial and naval limitations
When Gorbachev halves the Soviet military budget in 1991 a KGB and military coup is attempted and fails a fortnight later. The following day the Generals and Ministers who staged the coup are found, garoted, hanged and riddled with bullets. At that point Robert Gates head of the CIA and Kissinger decide to break up the USSR by supporting the Russian leader Yeltsin. Gates and Kissinger realise the day Ukraine declares independence the most dangerous intermediate usable dual capability Soviet forces, the Blackjack bombers, half the Backfire and Bear bombers and the sirtankers to support the naval strike and raider bombers as well as most of the Soviet shipbuilding yards which have built Stalin and Breshnevs, carriers, cruisers and destroyers will on the day be removed from Soviet/ Russian Navy control. The following eight years will be a period of ugly negotiation by Russia for the return of the Blackjacks and a few Backfires and Bears. Ultimately in 1999 US Senator Sam Nunn a potential US Presidential candidate destroys his career by using structural guillotines to destroy 2 extra flyable Blackjacks, in the weight of us Strategic interest which to Senators Nunn and Lugar matters more than any UN or international arms control agreement. That moment is decisive in putting Putin in power in Moscow
Snyder and Plokhij right in point. Not sure why Ferguson was invited. Narcissist, morally not up to Snyder in my view. Not completely sure why, but I strongly dislike this guy. Seems to lack sincerity and honesty.
Thank you for the video. That was a superb analysis and discussion of the Ukraine Russian war by 3 eminent historians. Valuable and worth watching.
... In Capitalism AND Communism, " You " as a real person are historically meaningless ... but in a Democracy - You DO have meaning as an individual ... History may not remember your name as an individual, but a life within a genuine Democracy CAN give your life purpose and dignity, if only you put something into it ... ☮ ... Sermon not intended
I’m not sure the Brexiteers think the British Empire is over though their Queen knew it, the rest need to hurry and catch up.
15:30 The "rot" of ruSSia: that 'rot' is there NOT BECAUSE it's ruSSian
but because all Empires begin to rot at the end of their dominion.
So, be a grown up and take your loss.
Excellent. But it's interesting that the East European on the panel only gets to speak in 3rd place, and is even interrupted by a USer the 2nd time he speaks.
This is all a bit confusing, and not objective.
You think we'd get our own democracy to work for the voters before we worry about democracy working elsewhere.
Did Pinchuk have to ruin this by making Applebaum the moderator?
America is a fascist democracy, and Russia a fascist autocracy. Find the difference...if there is one.
The ideologue fanatic warmongers speak.
As things are evolving since February 2022, there is and there will be an "independent Ukraine" (Snyder), - no doubt about that.
The question yet to be answered is within which borders and with which perspectives for the future the state of Ukraine will exist.
Hopefully borders which are coincident with the actual Ukrainian nation, ie mostly West of Dnieper and away from Black Sea coast