I remember Jade saying in a interview .Tony booked her a chair spot for T.V, she had never swung a chair or took a chair shot before. He exposed her. It took CM Punk to pull her aside to show her how to do it...says it all really.
@@TruckDriverDaleyup. She was green as a pepper tree and Tony pushed her to the moon. It Will take her a little bit to reverse engineer her wrestling basics
Why would the CANCER help?! Reeeeeeee! *Massive sarcasm* I remember her telling this story. The right thing to do there Tony? Don't have her use the chair. Look at her! Like she needs one anyway!
she trained with Bryan Danielson. so I would take statements like this with a pinch of salt. But Danielson, Moxley and Regal each stated that they were disappointed in the attitude of many they tried working with. This is why they really like Yuta, he was the most eager to learn.
I have to agree with Dutch. Tony the Kid tried to make Jade a female Goldberg. But he did nothing to improve her ability or her star power. James brings up a great point about Hook. No improvement whatsoever.
It's so stupid to me, you have people like Jade and Hook who clearly had something so why not try to make them into good wrestlers? They already did the harder part and got over with the fans, just get them in with a proper trainer and at least on the way to being good in the ring.
Right, how insanely over was Hook in those first few matches? And he had a very unique in ring style to boot. Then suddenly he's only being booked in crap until he's basically disappeared. They really mishandle their young talent
@@ApocalypticRenegade that was one of the things Dutch suggested. No one in AEW mentors or even try to train these people. Paul (Hunter) is not an idiot. There's a right place and time for things to happen.
@williammitchell4417 You know you're a mark when you have to quote WWE executives (Nick Khan's "the kid"). Come up with your own original insults stop being a follower for one time in your life. -Fuck All Wrestling
I haven't watched wrestling in over 25 years... ran across Dutch and James and check out these clips when they come up. These aren't just important wrestling lessons, they're important life lessons.
Oh my. 25 years. You gotta look up Jim Cornett's podcast lol. I think you'll dig it. Corny is really funny and has probably the best memory of everything he did and knew. It's good sheit pal!
@@devilselbowthe only reason I started watching aew besides catching up with punk was to watch pockets wrestle and see why he was making the business such a joke 😂 and I've grown to love pockets !
Don't blame AEW for HHH overpaying for a green talent. That's not on Tony Khan and AEW, that's on the brass of WWE for expecting her to be further along than she is when she's only been in the business for 2 years.
@@imaratspalonly 2 years? Wrestlers coming up in the business used to wrestle over 200 matches or more in 2 years. Blame Khan for not having house shows or a training center. Also, TK admitted himself that he offered her a lot of money to stay as well, so he was willing to overpay too but Jade turned him down
WWE doing absolutely what they need to do here. They have a new talent who is still very green but has huge potential and can be a draw. They'll hold her back in the performance centre for as long as is needed to get her ready for her full debut.
Agreed Yup Yup!!! She has the looks of a massive star!!! Ok on mic!!!! But wrestling skills lil lacking but I hve faith n WWE that they'll fix that!!! I'm fn excited about her no lies!!!!
It'd be a very long time before we can see any significant progress from Jade Cargill. I agree with Dutch on this one, she can use a manager and much needed focus on her in-ring work. At the very least to have a program if she's gonna be booked as a big player against Becky or Charlotte.
Dom prolly been training since a kid tho so not fair comparison. Hook was more into sports and martial arts coming up so doubt he even knew he wanted to be a wrestler as kid
@@jimmcdonald9490 I want you to watch a Dominik Mysterio match from when he first debuted in now and you can see how much Better has wrestling alone has gotten
It’s kind of telling when you see a lot of these young guys are barely working 20 matches a year and there isn’t any improvement. Then you consider Dom has worked close to 100 matches this year alone, and he’s improved leaps over where he was in the beginning.
The WWE kind of did the same thing with Mark Henry when he debuted. Paraded him around for a few weeks, had him squash Jerry Lawler, and then he was gone until the 2nd incarnation of the NOD. I guess the big difference is Mizzark hadn't spent the last 2 years in another promotion wrestling on tv more often than not but it's still the same premise.
Back when Jade was in AEW, I was telling a friend of mine how if she were in the Ruthless Aggression era and came up through the OVW system that she'd be a star. The performance center might not exactly be OVW but it looks like she has a second chance to learn properly which is great because although her AEW run was terrible, the potential has always been there. Would like to see Hunter sign Hook and bring him into that system. His potential is being wasted over in Khan Land.
Her debut was with main stream star Shaquil Oneil, she was the first TBS champion, her entire run she was undefeated,always was featured on the PPV's only got pinned 2 times(by Statlander) in 3 years How is that a "terrible run" go and ask every wrestler and everyone would say they would love to get that type of monster push, she did more in those 3 years than veterans like Sareena and Mercedes Martinez did her entire carrers ,she became a star hence why WWE signed her as fast as they could Your definition of "terrible run" is weird my guy 🤣
Hook could be good in NJPW like a G1 Jr. tournament with guys who are the same size but have more athletic spirit and charisma. Jade Cargill can train and train at the performance center but it's a totally different animal to wrestle in front of the WWE fandom. They will handpick several wrestlers to take the quick 1 2 3
@@duckmercy11 What are you talking about half of the guys range from 160-200. Hook needs to work with wrestlers who are stronger, faster and push the limit. Like a Yoh or Sho.
I'm eager to see whether Cargill can actually improve drastically or if she is just going to be the new Chyna. Even if she's good on the mic, I can imagine fans will get pretty sick and tired of her if she is a terrible wrestler especially nowadays in the smart mark era.
I feel like their can't be another chyna because all women wrestlers are super strong now. Nobody is allowed to be girly like torrie stacy or even trish everyone is super big and strong
@@megsley Luger...Mega over? I don't know, that might be pushing it. He was over-ish but never near enough of what people thought he should have been based on his looks and that was because he couldn't wrestle or do a promo. His associations with others is what helped him get over at all. If you expect the same from Jade, she needs to be surrounded by others who will get her over by proxy.
You know when you see something and it's so perfect that you have no clue why anyone hasn't said it before?! This is it. Great choice! I'd love to see that pairing!
It's not like WWE hasn't mishandled many a wrestler who they've had through the years. It's all about timing, booking and the effort to get over the character/storylines.
@mvjr7758 Yes but what I was trying to point out was that you don't waste an opportunity to learn from one of best. A different style of coach can sometimes yield gains in areas that you didn't know was a problem.
Yes. They want to make a big deal out of a new superstar. WWE has been doing that for years, even with people who were never going to go anywhere. That's what you're supposed to do with your talent. If they just threw her out there with no hype or buzz, she'd fall flatter than a plate of piss and flame out within a year.
Jade’s streak was meaningless .. Never any stories & always against some indie wrestler your never going to see again Everyone knew she was poor in the ring, promo’a the same but she has an amazing look .. WWE should get her on the right path ..
What is depressing is she was obviously modelled on Goldberg's push, right down to them only training to have one kind of match. That is ultimately what ruined Goldberg, he wasn't able to switch-up how to have matches once his invincible aura was gone. What WWE are doing makes so much sense, and while the AEW diehards will try to defend what happened as saying she had training from x, y, and z, what she needs is time in a ring with a live audience so she can learn how to feel the crowd and what can work in different styles of matches
Jades gonna learn more in the WWE performance center in just months compared to the 3 years she had in AEW. Look at Bron Breakker and Dom , they were brand new wrestlers and in just one year have changed completely. Dutch is right they’re getting paid to sit at home , they have no real incentive to go run some indie shows. It seems like Tony lets other guys on the roster go do indie shows no problem so they can’t say they can’t go and do them.
Vince. He called her up too soon. However, and this might be a revelation, Lacey Evans isn't Jade Cargill, so what happened with her doesn't mean a thing in this situation! Lacey was a better in-ring worker than Jade though...
@@roninmikeclips Compared to Jade, Bunny, and about 90% of the AEW's women's roster.... Still irrelevant to this conversation though, but keep up with the copium!
@@roninmikeclips Making my own opinion invalid? Keep making dumb statements, it's a known side effect of the copium! Looking forward to your next supply of illiterate drivel
"This is our performance center" - Tony Khan to the audience on Dark It's not just that they don't have a system, the person in charge has no idea what a proper system would look like
They did have in in the nightmare factory but once Cody left (and now QT leaving too) the nightmare factory is now mostly dedicated to training talent for WWE
@@Linklex7 A training school is part of it, but it's the almost the least important bit. What you really need is an environment where you can get out in front of crowds with agents and coaches who can give you feedback while you learn how to work in front of a live audience. You also don't want that recorded so your mistakes aren't held against you by all the smarks who've seen the footage. In a lot of ways, it's the NXT house show loop that is the key to the Performance Centre and the Nightmare Factory + AEW doesn't have anything like an equivalent
You would think that the talent has been scouted well enough that the WWE are aware. There's a reason Cody didn't go to NXT and Pillman Jr did for example.
Well to be fair, Brian pillman junior is nowhere near the level of star that Cody Rhodes is, sending Cody Rhodes to NXT would literally be like sending randy Orton to NXT
@@daldladla Tbf that's not a bad thing. We badly need newer and younger fans to create a future for this business. Just gotta educate 'em, not gatekeep.
@@duckmercy11 Fully agreed, the biggest scare WWE had goin in the 10s was a seeming inability to develop new stars and it felt more and more like an old man's thing. AEW has been the boon and push that WWEs needed to finally make change
I'd assume, and itd suit her, that theyd give her an entourage of a few of the NXT women and probably a hype man. It's a shame hes in AEW, but Stokely Hathaway would have been great for it. I think Lio Rush would fit that roll to, but I wouldn't trust his commitment
I wouldn't object if CM Punk takes on a role where he tries to bring up people from NXT and mentors them, trying to over throw the factions like the Bloodline or the Judgement Day. He can probably be a good mouthpiece
@@daldladla Not quite Nexus - With how that 'invasion' style angle was botched I'd hate to try to recreate that. It's not a million miles away, but instead I'd lean on Punk struggling to find allies on the main roster to watch his back, so he slowly finds people he can mould (or manipulate if you want to play him as a tweener) to be in his cult of personality. Just avoid the idea that they'd be trying to overtake the whole company like the Nexus tried to
Y’all act like WWE didn’t pass on her in the first place.. Cody seen her got her trained at the nightmare factory and put her on TV. With out her being built up WWE would’ve never looked at her
It’s amazing what AEW could do with the limitations Jade Cargill had. She got to tag with Shaq and win her debut match. They put her over huge with the streak and TBS belt. Her final match with Kris Statlander became her best so far. When she first showed up in AEW, I didn’t like it because I thought it was going to be another situation WWE had with Eva Marie but I was proven wrong.
Jade had 60 wins yet none of them were against any of the top 4 women in the world title picture. The TBS to title was literally created for the purpose of keeping her away for world title contenders. She was protect, not pushed right, not handled right
As a guy who plays bass guitar on Rocksmith only, I have zero formal education in the instrument. Can I play the song using the software? Sure. Can I tell you what note I'm playing? No. Can I jam with anyone or perform in front of people? No. The same is with these new AEW wrestlers. Throwing them out there in front of live people doesn't promise "experience". It just galvanizes bad habits and poor technique. This is why I wish AEW didn't do away with Dark or Dark Elevation. If they would use it like a performance center/NXT brand, these people could practice their craft there without worrying about offending the broadcast network and really train these people up. But, AEW wants more action and less plot. That's also why their disabled list is so long.
@@neilbiggs1353 true and they screwed up by doing that. But in WWE that’s the goal, not a mistake. Just look at the current ‘champ’ who never comes to work.
My shitty hot take on Jade: I don't think she's all in for wrestling. She trained with Dustin Rhodes, Danielson, Ar Fox, Heath Slater, and QT Marshall and she's still green?? There was a recent report that she in wwe's performance center for 1-2 days a week since joining. I don't know her situation but to me it looks like shes not trying hard enough
Everyone said that she needed a few years before she could be competitive in a match. It was an experiment that didn't get to come to pass. Everyone said that she was green.
Interested to see if Jade turns out to be Hunter’s first bonafide Vince bust. Gets drooly over a physical freak of nature, assumes that they can turn a bodybuilder into a professional wrestler, and stubbornly hypes them until the grand experiment craters.
AEW really missed another opportunity with Jade. She did great with what she was given so makes me wonder how amazing she'll be when properly trained and prepared.
Going off the Dutch point of a manager I would get really wimpy guy if possible to manage her. Someone who she can treat like trash but he either does not mind or seems to enjoy it. That sort of act will get a lot of heat. That is the one thing all wrestling has been in short supply of, good pure managers. Could you imagine Jimmy Hart running around talking her up? Heenan/Cornette either one. Although I think with Heenan it would have been on the outside of his Heenan family prime. Those couple years with the Hogan feud.
If he wasn't dedicated to Von Wagner as an out of nowhere Face Robert Stone would be a great modern day Harvey Wipplemanesque Heel Mouthpiece. Don't forget that he as Robbie Stone Teamed in A California Surfer Boy Duo with Jessie Godderz in TNA Impact. They were under the tutelage of a very powerful Lady named Tara Ryzing (or Victoria in WWE Circles).🤔🎤💪💃🌊🏄♂️🏄♂️🤼♀️🤼♂️B.W.
This isn't a prfound statement. It's a true statement. Even WCW sent Goldberg to the Power Plant. It was Goldberg himself who didn't take training seriously, and almost shooting in every match. WWE won't let her put her hands on anyone until she's properly trained. Good for them
How did AEW mishandle Jade Cargill? They featured her heavily and kept her protected. Wrestlers being on TV with little experience is not just a Jade issue or an AEW issue. They built up Jade into a dominant Heel that WWE wanted. AEW literally turned chicken shit into chicken salad. She's got a piss poor attitude. She obviously wanted out so she could go to WWE. Tony offered her more money than she originally asked for and she still declined, so obviously she already had a WWE deal lined up. That is called contract tampering. Now she's in WWE and she ain't doing squat. Who is the more entertaining TV presence? AEW Jade or WWE Jade? AEW deserves to be bashed for many reasons, but why anyone would put the blame on AEW and not WWE and Jade is beyond me. She needs to check her ego and learn the damn ropes. AEW kept her limited to one kind of match because that's all she learned how to do. Now that she's in WWE, let's see where this goes. It's up to Jade and WWE to do something with this alleged commodity.
Brian Danielson was one of her trainers, so it's not like she didn't have the best! But being put in 60 squash matches didn't help, I thought she was boring.
I would like to hear details of what makes someone green. Not from fans but professionals. With fans it tends to be about counting moves. Pros seem to be talking about several different things.
I don't know about Jungle Boy but Daniel Garcia is someone who is not local but lives a hour from me and he's been very active on the independent scene especially before he got signed to AEW. Actually Daniel Garcia started off as a rapper and he actually had some good music. Garcia is still doing independent events I just don't know how often but he's a trainer for at least one or two wrestling schools and that's how I know him. Garcia might be a champion right now or recently was for at least 2 different independent companies. I know for a fact he's wrestled this year in West Coast Pro, Defy, PWG, Prestige Wrestling and some other companies and I think he's a trainer at Daddy Yeah Wrestling School in the Buffalo NY area.
AEW used Cody & Dustin Rhodes Nightmare Factory to train Jade. She clearly wasn't ready & completely green. She's a hybrid Goldberg and Shaniqua.. She needs a couple years at the Performance Center, a couple in NXT then main roster.
Just because someone has a good body doesn’t mean they have talent to be a good worker. WWE will never learn in that aspect, they’ve hired countless body builders and pretty girls thinking they can turn them into superstars and it all falls apart as soon as they get in the ring. HHH has no one to blame but himself for hiring Jade, he should have known what he was getting.
Jade is a stiff, she got into wrestling too late. Tiny did all he could do with her, pretty much created a title for her to have so they could continue to push her hoping she would improve along The way. She didn’t. She’s WWE’s problem now. Just like Pillman Jr. I don’t think you will see either of them headlining ppv’s anytime soon.
I really don't get the hype around Cargill. I saw everything she did in AEW and her promos and work are both the shits. Yes she looks like a million bucks but this isn't bodybuilding and social media followers don't equal getting over.
Yall are nuts and there is missing context here. Shes in the PC being trained by Sarah Amatto, who herself was trained by Bryan Danielson. In AEW, Jade was being trained by Bryan Danielson ...so shes not gonna learn more from the "student" rather than the "teacher." WWE is teaching Jade where they place cameras and how to read a script, not how to wrestle better. Also, HOOK > Dominik.
WWE will make ten times more money off of Jade, than AEW ever could. Kenny needs to help that women’s division out(if that’s his job) Jade with WWE training will be unreal, she is an amazing athlete.
Then why they hire her? Just because she was a AEW talent If she was terrible, then why wwe fans wanted her? Wwe making lame excuses they have no storyline for her yet She got world recognition in AEW and became a star that is today
I love how you left out. It was Cody Rhodes who trained Jade. Also had Bryan Danielson & William Regal help her along as well. If they can't teach you. Jade just might be a bust.
@BrndnNZT48 or that she is just not that good. Same with Pillman Jr., who has it even harder with who his old man was & he was Hart Family trained as well. Though he is not a bad Tag Team guy. So maybe Pillman Jr should be in a Tag Team. Maybe sign Griff if he is not under contract with AEW still.
Dustin also had a hand in training her, seems to me like Paul just signed her so he could brag that they headhunted an AEW wrestler but then didn't know what to do with her next, he immediately had her paraded around NXT for a couple months but had no actual plan what to do next so he's using the "well she's had no training" as an excuse to not use her while they figure out what to do
well AEW must have done something right because WWE wanted her even with the limited skill set she always did. Plus before she got the contract she was worked out at the Performance Center so they knew her abilities. She trained at the Night Mare Factory and several other places. Steven Regal knew her from AEW and probably put a word in for her.
Oh, ffs. Stop it. HHH and TKO Wrestling couldn't be that much of a hypocrite. Impossible. One of the biggest name in WWF History was greener than Jade, and he wasn't the only one. Same with WCW. Seem like this type of thing runs in the industry in general. To pretend otherwise cuz AEW is beyond idiotic. This is the only truth here; Jade came out looking like a million bucks thanks to AEW, same with Cody, and now is up to TKO Wrestling to cash in on it however they see fit. Can they? Not like they haven't fumbled entire rosters worth of wrestlers before or anything... One shouldn't be throwing stones in a glass house and all that jazz is all I'm saying. 😐
AEW pushed Cargill in the same manner that WCW pushed Goldberg, in quick dominating wins that didn't really do anything to help them become better workers.
The examples of Hook, Jack Perry etc. Is exactly what they did with Jade thew them out there without a safety net, so to speak, however with someone like Jade she listens to the legends like CM Punk, Byran Danielson, Dustin Rhodes etc. She wants to get better, improve etc. Ans it shows. Also she has improved greatly training with Tyson Kidd and Natty. Along with Ricky Starks, Kaun, Angelo Dawkins etc. Jade should do fine whenever she debuts.
I think they’re going to have this problem with EVERYONE from AEW that got their first job at AEW. Tony Kahn even said something along the lines of his performers have no training. In terms of Jade Cargill; I’ve only seen her one promo where she came out talking to Cody and Brandi gets involved. It was awful. So all of this Jade hype made me think she had improved or something since that first promo. Apparently not 😂
She’s made for WWE, all sizzle no steak. Not necessarily a bad thing in the proper environment, which is where she’s at. Theyre going to push her to the moon whether the fans will accept her or not
WWE, and AEW for that matter, should sometimes push wrestlers that the fans don't necessarily like to attract viewers that aren't hardcore wrestling dorks. Wrestling fans can complain all they want but they'll still watch whatever is presented to them. If it was up to the fans, (many of whom have never been in a fight) wimpy looking bums like Sami Zayne would be world champ.
I like HHH’s vision here. If you watch what he is doing with developmental, he is picking up people who have potential and taking them into the PC to get them the reps and give them the spit and polish they need to sustain the business as a whole. If you take a look at some of the releases and where some are going, like NJPW, ROH, and yes AEW. Those talents will always be on the radar for a return. Sometimes you have to put people in a position to sink or swim in your system then send them out into the world to find their feet in other promotions if they have the desire to do so. Back in the late 90s/early 00s, I use to go to the Memphis armory shows when WWE had a developmental program there. You could see the coaching and the development of crowd work happening….. Brian Danielson was there as well as some other bigger names in the last decade….. WWE has had a system in place to train, test, and develop talent for decades. The guys and gals got reps doing three shows a week…. Small venues and also got exposure when the big show came to the area. AEW needs to take a page from the book and look at talent development differently if they want to maintain a market share of the business.
As a casual observer, I can't help but notice how much AEW fears playing the long game with their talent. They seem to always favor immediate gratification, over a good long game build up. Most of the greatest moments in pro wrestling history were the result of a booker taking their time to develop a good story. How the hell hasn't AEW made that connection yet? Why are they always so short of breath with their story telling?
@Lorric101 I agree with you on that aspect. AEW's safety record is simply atrocious. It's enough to make one wonder if Tony Kahn views his talent more as being Matchbox cars, than he does human beings
Just shows WWE haven't a clue what to do with talent. It's not that hard to figure out what to do with Jade Cargill even given her limited in ring ability. Just replicate her TBS run on NXT for like 2 years until shes main roster ready. If they feel like they can train her better, then do that for 2 years behind the scenes while she squashes the entire division there. Shes money on the mic and entertaining as hell so itd only generate more money and controversy for them, and that way it pays off for everyone in the long run if they can get her to main roster. Its really on WWE themselves if they cant make it work but they really shouldn't be burying her in the media like that if they want to make it work out.
Well one that you can't say hasn't improved by leaps and bounds is Julia Hart. At this point I'd rather have her on a roster that Jade Cargill any day, who knows if she'll amount to anything.
I mean, AEW doesn't have like an "official" training school/brand though. They've kinda leased it out to Dustin Rhodes and the Nightmare Factory, before QT quit anyway. AEW had more of a "learn on the job" approach, and she only improved so much from that. Now if AEW had a school and they put out wrestlers of her limited ability, then id say bury them. Saying AEW can't train because she sucks is like saying WWE couldn't train guys because the Great Khali sucked. He was a body/height guy of limited in ring ability. That's also what she is right now. Because she looks like freaking Wonder Woman.
My take on this is that when AEW first started, they had to be creative in putting their early roster together. As a result, many of their signees were imperfect or unfinished products. Jade always had the look. No doubt. And she's definitely athletic. But from what I've seen she hasn't shown much of anything as an actual in-ring worker and didn't really seem to improve. You can hide that in squash matches as AEW did, but you can't really have feuds or go any further. You can't put on bangers, because the matches are garbage unless you have a real magician in the ring with that person. A good look can take you a long way, but not all the way... at least not for long. I have come to wonder if Wardlow isn't a similar case. Looks great, super athletic, but very limited otherwise. I mean, can you really base a whole career on giving people four power bombs and nothing else? It isn't sustainable over the long haul. My point being that I think AEW utilized some undercooked talent and then used smoke and mirrors to make them look the best they could. I don't really have a problem with that. That's show biz. But you can only get away with doing that for so long before the novelty wears off and fans see through it. It also doesn't really benefit the performer long-term to be thrown into the spotlight before they are ready. AEW did what it had to do, but it could wind up being problematic for several of those performers' careers. I think what HHH is finding out right now is that there may not have been much behind Jade's smoke and mirrors. I would like to think that Jade and the people behind AEW were working together on her becoming better, but I don't know what that looked like day-to-day. It was obvious to me that Jade needed a lot of work. That's not a shot, just a fact. Several early AEW talents fall in that same category for me. They need more reps on and off-camera and I am not convinced that AEW has the infrastructure to do that properly. Love it or hate it, the WWE has a system to cultivate wrestlers and Jade will benefit from that. But there is also a chance that she just may not have the aptitude to be a great worker. She certainly wouldn't be the first wrestler who had a couple pieces of the puzzle but not all of them. Sorry, this was a long comment. I've been thinking about this topic for a while. lol
Where was WWE when AEW took a chance on her, made her known on TV to fans? Not to say AEW handled things flawlessly. Am saying WWE didn't take the chance on her when she was a nobody. They had the chance to sign her first and didn't.
Ok, I have one point that might undermine what you said: The ultimate warrior. Awful worker, unsafe, no real ability. Just a great look. But he rode that to the top. Alot of that was having guys who could work make him look better than he was. If the Warrior can be made into a world champion then I don't wanna hear that Jade can't find a place. You could also say that about Goldberg and even Sid to a degree. None of them were great but they all had a million dollar look. And WWE is the place that can make something like that work.
People forget something really important if you want to improve do it yourself don’t wait for company or workplace to help you. Jade is been wrestling for how long 2-3 years why if she had such problem not ask the veterans in AEW to help her..Covid was excellent time for her to improve. WWE always sends most of the new talent to learn the wwe style but seems Jade is been having problems with learning previously and now will take longer time for her to absorb wrestling.
@@alexs7670 I am not talking about self improvement you have Dustin Rhodes in AEW he literally run nxt woman’s training before and experience veterans nothing stopped Jade to ask for help and train with them when she had time off
Imagine just LOOKING at Jade Cargill and being like "yeah, she's not a fucking superhero" She's gonna be badass in WWE and AEW has been absolutely embarrassed in a post CM Punk debut world. I already had lost any goodwill for AEW that I had, but goddamn it's worse than 2010 TNA and deathbed WCW. It's a bunch of toxic idiots gaslighting and ripping off Tony Khan's Dad by telling poor TK that everything he's coming up with is great, but hey don't forget to renew my contract for 5+ years.
I remember Jade saying in a interview .Tony booked her a chair spot for T.V, she had never swung a chair or took a chair shot before. He exposed her. It took CM Punk to pull her aside to show her how to do it...says it all really.
@@TruckDriverDaleyup. She was green as a pepper tree and Tony pushed her to the moon. It Will take her a little bit to reverse engineer her wrestling basics
Why would the CANCER help?! Reeeeeeee!
*Massive sarcasm*
I remember her telling this story. The right thing to do there Tony? Don't have her use the chair. Look at her! Like she needs one anyway!
So very accurate.... I love this channel. Logical and common sense commenting. I heard that as well and felt the very same.
she trained with Bryan Danielson. so I would take statements like this with a pinch of salt. But Danielson, Moxley and Regal each stated that they were disappointed in the attitude of many they tried working with. This is why they really like Yuta, he was the most eager to learn.
Typical Cm Punk mark lol
I wouldn't call Jade Cargill "buyer remorse". She's more of an investment. Let then train her and take their time.
Agreed, HHH won’t ever say it publicly, but he’ll see a lot of chyna in her appearance and stature
I agree too I want her on nxt
Yeah... That's pretty much what Dutch said.
She needs to start off in NXT. Even if it's just for 6 months to a year, before she goes on the main roster.
they only got her for this contract shes off to Hollywood after her contract ends she doesn't love wrestling shes just using wwe.
I have to agree with Dutch. Tony the Kid tried to make Jade a female Goldberg. But he did nothing to improve her ability or her star power. James brings up a great point about Hook. No improvement whatsoever.
It's so stupid to me, you have people like Jade and Hook who clearly had something so why not try to make them into good wrestlers? They already did the harder part and got over with the fans, just get them in with a proper trainer and at least on the way to being good in the ring.
Right, how insanely over was Hook in those first few matches? And he had a very unique in ring style to boot. Then suddenly he's only being booked in crap until he's basically disappeared. They really mishandle their young talent
@@ApocalypticRenegade that was one of the things Dutch suggested. No one in AEW mentors or even try to train these people. Paul (Hunter) is not an idiot. There's a right place and time for things to happen.
@@daldladla It would be like me flying an F-16 today. Not happening.
@williammitchell4417 You know you're a mark when you have to quote WWE executives (Nick Khan's "the kid"). Come up with your own original insults stop being a follower for one time in your life.
-Fuck All Wrestling
I haven't watched wrestling in over 25 years... ran across Dutch and James and check out these clips when they come up. These aren't just important wrestling lessons, they're important life lessons.
Oh my. 25 years. You gotta look up Jim Cornett's podcast lol. I think you'll dig it. Corny is really funny and has probably the best memory of everything he did and knew. It's good sheit pal!
I rarely ever watch wrestling also. I do watch a lot of shoot interviews of guys I used to be fans of.
@@devilselbowthe only reason I started watching aew besides catching up with punk was to watch pockets wrestle and see why he was making the business such a joke 😂 and I've grown to love pockets !
@@devilselbowJim cornette and Dutch are awesome
I didn't see it as HHH trying to bury AEW, he was just stating a fact; the actions of AEW bury itself.
You're right. He didn't. James is falling into the clickbait thing. It's unfortunate but that gets views so..
Don't blame AEW for HHH overpaying for a green talent. That's not on Tony Khan and AEW, that's on the brass of WWE for expecting her to be further along than she is when she's only been in the business for 2 years.
@@imaratspalonly 2 years? Wrestlers coming up in the business used to wrestle over 200 matches or more in 2 years. Blame Khan for not having house shows or a training center. Also, TK admitted himself that he offered her a lot of money to stay as well, so he was willing to overpay too but Jade turned him down
Those desperate to see AEW fail as if it would somehow validate their one lives bury AEW.
Trips stated the facts, the facts buried AEW.
WWE doing absolutely what they need to do here. They have a new talent who is still very green but has huge potential and can be a draw. They'll hold her back in the performance centre for as long as is needed to get her ready for her full debut.
Agreed Yup Yup!!! She has the looks of a massive star!!! Ok on mic!!!! But wrestling skills lil lacking but I hve faith n WWE that they'll fix that!!! I'm fn excited about her no lies!!!!
It'd be a very long time before we can see any significant progress from Jade Cargill. I agree with Dutch on this one, she can use a manager and much needed focus on her in-ring work. At the very least to have a program if she's gonna be booked as a big player against Becky or Charlotte.
@@proxydoesitwrong6331i bet they book her with The Wiseman, that would really get some heat behind her and will help her on the mic.
@@proxydoesitwrong63316 months in the PC. She'll get more reps than her entire AEW run, and actual training
that and they paid a shit load of cash to get her there
It would be great to be a AEW bench warmer... Tony can send me a check. 😁
Take an idiot's money, count me in too.
@@ymca4547I second that
Hook and Dominik Mysterio started around the same time, look how much Dominik has improved, but Hook hasn’t improved at all. That says it all.
How much Nia Jax improved?
@@ИльяДмитриев-ц4ч😂
I think Dom exceeded everybody's expectations. I thought he'd tag with his Dad for a bit and then become a jobber.
I'm so glad I'm wrong
Dom prolly been training since a kid tho so not fair comparison. Hook was more into sports and martial arts coming up so doubt he even knew he wanted to be a wrestler as kid
@@jimmcdonald9490 I want you to watch a Dominik Mysterio match from when he first debuted in now and you can see how much Better has wrestling alone has gotten
It’s kind of telling when you see a lot of these young guys are barely working 20 matches a year and there isn’t any improvement. Then you consider Dom has worked close to 100 matches this year alone, and he’s improved leaps over where he was in the beginning.
I don’t know if you will see this Dutch but Happy Birthday brother
Absolutely love this podcast man
I dont feel like he "buried" them, i feel like he said that as respectfully and honestly as possible
My thoughts exactly
Thats how news works now though. Everything is a bury or a slam when talking about someone else.
headlines for the views bro.
Buried is such a misused term these days
The WWE kind of did the same thing with Mark Henry when he debuted. Paraded him around for a few weeks, had him squash Jerry Lawler, and then he was gone until the 2nd incarnation of the NOD. I guess the big difference is Mizzark hadn't spent the last 2 years in another promotion wrestling on tv more often than not but it's still the same premise.
Mark Henry got hurt, which is why he wasn’t around for most of his early years
who is the 'next Kurt Angle' they tried (shortly) to push a few months back?? stiff as shit, no mic and cant read the crowd.
And he threatened to kill Shawn Michaels lol. Just saw Mark Henry talking about it recently on here somewhere. Some shoot interview.
I believe he was working for OVW at that time getting proper training.
Triple H doesn’t seem to have the animosity toward Tony that Vince had for Crockett or Bischoff, but he’s definitely rubbing some salt in.
Back when Jade was in AEW, I was telling a friend of mine how if she were in the Ruthless Aggression era and came up through the OVW system that she'd be a star. The performance center might not exactly be OVW but it looks like she has a second chance to learn properly which is great because although her AEW run was terrible, the potential has always been there. Would like to see Hunter sign Hook and bring him into that system. His potential is being wasted over in Khan Land.
Hook was at least properly trained by his dad.
Her debut was with main stream star Shaquil Oneil, she was the first TBS champion, her entire run she was undefeated,always was featured on the PPV's only got pinned 2 times(by Statlander) in 3 years
How is that a "terrible run" go and ask every wrestler and everyone would say they would love to get that type of monster push, she did more in those 3 years than veterans like Sareena and Mercedes Martinez did her entire carrers ,she became a star hence why WWE signed her as fast as they could
Your definition of "terrible run" is weird my guy
🤣
only the first sentence isn't nonsense.
@@Syfcobra8549big fish in a small pond and they didn't teach her how to swim with sharks.
@@natebaxter9551 lmao ok boy
Hook could be good in NJPW like a G1 Jr. tournament with guys who are the same size but have more athletic spirit and charisma. Jade Cargill can train and train at the performance center but it's a totally different animal to wrestle in front of the WWE fandom. They will handpick several wrestlers to take the quick 1 2 3
Dude is tiny even compared to NJPW's Jr Division. No one wrestling over there looks like a 12 year old kid going through puberty.
@@duckmercy11 What are you talking about half of the guys range from 160-200. Hook needs to work with wrestlers who are stronger, faster and push the limit. Like a Yoh or Sho.
@@tallglasscocoa6105 Yoh and Sho are much bigger than Hook dude.
I'm eager to see whether Cargill can actually improve drastically or if she is just going to be the new Chyna. Even if she's good on the mic, I can imagine fans will get pretty sick and tired of her if she is a terrible wrestler especially nowadays in the smart mark era.
I feel like their can't be another chyna because all women wrestlers are super strong now. Nobody is allowed to be girly like torrie stacy or even trish everyone is super big and strong
She is genetically gifted. Very athletic. She has a far better chance of getting it than most.
she's not even good on the mic. She had people like Danielson training her, so dont expect much here
I don't need her to be an indie darling mat technician - lex luger wasn't that great in the ring but he got mega over.
@@megsley Luger...Mega over? I don't know, that might be pushing it. He was over-ish but never near enough of what people thought he should have been based on his looks and that was because he couldn't wrestle or do a promo. His associations with others is what helped him get over at all. If you expect the same from Jade, she needs to be surrounded by others who will get her over by proxy.
😂 “Here’s my cap. Here’s my other one… for sale, by the way!”
Now THAT’S a pro.
MVP to manage Jade?
Oh that would work!!!
You know when you see something and it's so perfect that you have no clue why anyone hasn't said it before?! This is it.
Great choice! I'd love to see that pairing!
Good shout!
That would print money, great call
That will be a perfect pairing
It's not like WWE hasn't mishandled many a wrestler who they've had through the years. It's all about timing, booking and the effort to get over the character/storylines.
What surprises me is that they had William Regal. With that guy hanging around how do you not get him to teach.
Jade was trained by Bryan Danielson.
@mvjr7758 Yes but what I was trying to point out was that you don't waste an opportunity to learn from one of best. A different style of coach can sometimes yield gains in areas that you didn't know was a problem.
@@mvjr7758Jade Cargill was first trained by WWE, but got fired before she could finish
WWE is funny sometimes, they want to pretend AEW doesn't exist but want us to know who Jade Cardgil is and that it's a big deal
Yes. They want to make a big deal out of a new superstar. WWE has been doing that for years, even with people who were never going to go anywhere. That's what you're supposed to do with your talent. If they just threw her out there with no hype or buzz, she'd fall flatter than a plate of piss and flame out within a year.
elevator didnt reach the top floor with you, did it?
@@politic1148 my dick reach the back of your moms throat
Let’s be real Vince would have done the same thing he would pushed her based on her looks and worked around her limits
Like he did whit Luger
Dana Brook lol wtf all that time there and still learned NOTHING
@@LESLYLOHIERInsult to Luger. He was pretty good 88 - 92 and wasn't as green as Jade.
Jade’s streak was meaningless .. Never any stories & always against some indie wrestler your never going to see again
Everyone knew she was poor in the ring, promo’a the same but she has an amazing look ..
WWE should get her on the right path ..
What is depressing is she was obviously modelled on Goldberg's push, right down to them only training to have one kind of match. That is ultimately what ruined Goldberg, he wasn't able to switch-up how to have matches once his invincible aura was gone. What WWE are doing makes so much sense, and while the AEW diehards will try to defend what happened as saying she had training from x, y, and z, what she needs is time in a ring with a live audience so she can learn how to feel the crowd and what can work in different styles of matches
They used the Goldberg method on Cargil. Goldberg was extremely limited but he was a draw.
The problem is Jade isn’t a draw. One day she may or may not be, but she isn’t now.
Jades gonna learn more in the WWE performance center in just months compared to the 3 years she had in AEW. Look at Bron Breakker and Dom , they were brand new wrestlers and in just one year have changed completely.
Dutch is right they’re getting paid to sit at home , they have no real incentive to go run some indie shows. It seems like Tony lets other guys on the roster go do indie shows no problem so they can’t say they can’t go and do them.
“This is all AEW’s fault “ Then wtf happened with Lacey Evan? 😂
Vince. He called her up too soon. However, and this might be a revelation, Lacey Evans isn't Jade Cargill, so what happened with her doesn't mean a thing in this situation! Lacey was a better in-ring worker than Jade though...
@@neilbiggs1353 Compared to what?
Please list me your Top 5 Lacey Evans Matches. 🤣
@@roninmikeclips Compared to Jade, Bunny, and about 90% of the AEW's women's roster.... Still irrelevant to this conversation though, but keep up with the copium!
@@neilbiggs1353 thank you for doing all the heavy weightlifting and making your own opinion invalid.
Also, why are you yelling? 😂
@@roninmikeclips Making my own opinion invalid? Keep making dumb statements, it's a known side effect of the copium!
Looking forward to your next supply of illiterate drivel
Let's compare in-ring work growth, Jade and Hook in AEW to Bron in NXT. AEW isn't set up to directly grow talent, they don't have a system in place.
"This is our performance center" - Tony Khan to the audience on Dark
It's not just that they don't have a system, the person in charge has no idea what a proper system would look like
They did have in in the nightmare factory but once Cody left (and now QT leaving too) the nightmare factory is now mostly dedicated to training talent for WWE
@@Linklex7 A training school is part of it, but it's the almost the least important bit. What you really need is an environment where you can get out in front of crowds with agents and coaches who can give you feedback while you learn how to work in front of a live audience. You also don't want that recorded so your mistakes aren't held against you by all the smarks who've seen the footage. In a lot of ways, it's the NXT house show loop that is the key to the Performance Centre and the Nightmare Factory + AEW doesn't have anything like an equivalent
You would think that the talent has been scouted well enough that the WWE are aware. There's a reason Cody didn't go to NXT and Pillman Jr did for example.
Well to be fair, Brian pillman junior is nowhere near the level of star that Cody Rhodes is, sending Cody Rhodes to NXT would literally be like sending randy Orton to NXT
Cody was already in their system for 10 years, wasn't he? There was no reason to go to NXT.
@@duckmercy11I am starting to realize that there are a lotta people who I think started watching wrestling at AEWs launch.
@@daldladla Tbf that's not a bad thing. We badly need newer and younger fans to create a future for this business. Just gotta educate 'em, not gatekeep.
@@duckmercy11 Fully agreed, the biggest scare WWE had goin in the 10s was a seeming inability to develop new stars and it felt more and more like an old man's thing. AEW has been the boon and push that WWEs needed to finally make change
It's a shame that "professional" wrestling has come down to fan fiction v. corporate copy pasta.
It's alot of " promo" to. Mat wrestling doesn't count anymore. Because AEW let's wrestlers cross companies.
I'd assume, and itd suit her, that theyd give her an entourage of a few of the NXT women and probably a hype man. It's a shame hes in AEW, but Stokely Hathaway would have been great for it. I think Lio Rush would fit that roll to, but I wouldn't trust his commitment
I wouldn't object if CM Punk takes on a role where he tries to bring up people from NXT and mentors them, trying to over throw the factions like the Bloodline or the Judgement Day. He can probably be a good mouthpiece
@@neilbiggs1353Nexus 3.0??? Clever angle
@@daldladla Not quite Nexus - With how that 'invasion' style angle was botched I'd hate to try to recreate that. It's not a million miles away, but instead I'd lean on Punk struggling to find allies on the main roster to watch his back, so he slowly finds people he can mould (or manipulate if you want to play him as a tweener) to be in his cult of personality. Just avoid the idea that they'd be trying to overtake the whole company like the Nexus tried to
Where are those hats for sale?
Y’all act like WWE didn’t pass on her in the first place.. Cody seen her got her trained at the nightmare factory and put her on TV. With out her being built up WWE would’ve never looked at her
It’s amazing what AEW could do with the limitations Jade Cargill had. She got to tag with Shaq and win her debut match. They put her over huge with the streak and TBS belt. Her final match with Kris Statlander became her best so far. When she first showed up in AEW, I didn’t like it because I thought it was going to be another situation WWE had with Eva Marie but I was proven wrong.
Jade had 60 wins yet none of them were against any of the top 4 women in the world title picture. The TBS to title was literally created for the purpose of keeping her away for world title contenders. She was protect, not pushed right, not handled right
40-45 matches were against local talent that lasted 60 seconds
As a guy who plays bass guitar on Rocksmith only, I have zero formal education in the instrument. Can I play the song using the software? Sure. Can I tell you what note I'm playing? No. Can I jam with anyone or perform in front of people? No. The same is with these new AEW wrestlers. Throwing them out there in front of live people doesn't promise "experience". It just galvanizes bad habits and poor technique. This is why I wish AEW didn't do away with Dark or Dark Elevation. If they would use it like a performance center/NXT brand, these people could practice their craft there without worrying about offending the broadcast network and really train these people up. But, AEW wants more action and less plot. That's also why their disabled list is so long.
She looks like a million and wrestles like a wooden nickel. She’s a perfect WWE superstar.
And she was still presented as the top AEW star for their women's division...
@@neilbiggs1353 true and they screwed up by doing that. But in WWE that’s the goal, not a mistake. Just look at the current ‘champ’ who never comes to work.
My shitty hot take on Jade: I don't think she's all in for wrestling. She trained with Dustin Rhodes, Danielson, Ar Fox, Heath Slater, and QT Marshall and she's still green?? There was a recent report that she in wwe's performance center for 1-2 days a week since joining. I don't know her situation but to me it looks like shes not trying hard enough
Yup. Poppa H took one look at her and realized how green she is. No mic skills, no ring psychology, can only go if the match is 100% laid out.
Great in a magazine, shit in the ring. Am i missing anything? Work in progress
Everyone said that she needed a few years before she could be competitive in a match. It was an experiment that didn't get to come to pass. Everyone said that she was green.
Meanwhile, Nia Jax is popping her opponents implants week after week.
😂😂😂😂
LOL Jade was trained at the Nightmare factory. Triple H accidentally throwing shade at Cody.
Interested to see if Jade turns out to be Hunter’s first bonafide Vince bust.
Gets drooly over a physical freak of nature, assumes that they can turn a bodybuilder into a professional wrestler, and stubbornly hypes them until the grand experiment craters.
AEW really missed another opportunity with Jade. She did great with what she was given so makes me wonder how amazing she'll be when properly trained and prepared.
Going off the Dutch point of a manager I would get really wimpy guy if possible to manage her. Someone who she can treat like trash but he either does not mind or seems to enjoy it. That sort of act will get a lot of heat. That is the one thing all wrestling has been in short supply of, good pure managers. Could you imagine Jimmy Hart running around talking her up? Heenan/Cornette either one. Although I think with Heenan it would have been on the outside of his Heenan family prime. Those couple years with the Hogan feud.
If he wasn't dedicated to Von Wagner as an out of nowhere Face Robert Stone would be a great modern day Harvey Wipplemanesque Heel Mouthpiece. Don't forget that he as Robbie Stone Teamed in A California Surfer Boy Duo with Jessie Godderz in TNA Impact. They were under the tutelage of a very powerful Lady named Tara Ryzing (or Victoria in WWE Circles).🤔🎤💪💃🌊🏄♂️🏄♂️🤼♀️🤼♂️B.W.
This isn't a prfound statement. It's a true statement. Even WCW sent Goldberg to the Power Plant. It was Goldberg himself who didn't take training seriously, and almost shooting in every match. WWE won't let her put her hands on anyone until she's properly trained. Good for them
The goldberg of womens wrestling.
How did AEW mishandle Jade Cargill? They featured her heavily and kept her protected. Wrestlers being on TV with little experience is not just a Jade issue or an AEW issue. They built up Jade into a dominant Heel that WWE wanted. AEW literally turned chicken shit into chicken salad. She's got a piss poor attitude. She obviously wanted out so she could go to WWE. Tony offered her more money than she originally asked for and she still declined, so obviously she already had a WWE deal lined up. That is called contract tampering. Now she's in WWE and she ain't doing squat. Who is the more entertaining TV presence? AEW Jade or WWE Jade?
AEW deserves to be bashed for many reasons, but why anyone would put the blame on AEW and not WWE and Jade is beyond me. She needs to check her ego and learn the damn ropes. AEW kept her limited to one kind of match because that's all she learned how to do. Now that she's in WWE, let's see where this goes. It's up to Jade and WWE to do something with this alleged commodity.
Boom 💥
Brian Danielson was one of her trainers, so it's not like she didn't have the best! But being put in 60 squash matches didn't help, I thought she was boring.
I would like to hear details of what makes someone green. Not from fans but professionals. With fans it tends to be about counting moves. Pros seem to be talking about several different things.
So she's the female Bill Goldberg
That performance centre and being coached by Sara Del Ray etc will bring her on loads. She’ll be a star
Honestly, everyone knew she was limited in the ring but I don’t think anyone knew exactly how limited she was till they actually see her training.
You were there at the WWE Performance Center and saw her in training?
I don't know about Jungle Boy but Daniel Garcia is someone who is not local but lives a hour from me and he's been very active on the independent scene especially before he got signed to AEW. Actually Daniel Garcia started off as a rapper and he actually had some good music. Garcia is still doing independent events I just don't know how often but he's a trainer for at least one or two wrestling schools and that's how I know him. Garcia might be a champion right now or recently was for at least 2 different independent companies.
I know for a fact he's wrestled this year in West Coast Pro, Defy, PWG, Prestige Wrestling and some other companies and I think he's a trainer at Daddy Yeah Wrestling School in the Buffalo NY area.
AEW used Cody & Dustin Rhodes Nightmare Factory to train Jade.
She clearly wasn't ready & completely green. She's a hybrid Goldberg and Shaniqua..
She needs a couple years at the Performance Center, a couple in NXT then main roster.
make her a heymem girl lol
Just because someone has a good body doesn’t mean they have talent to be a good worker. WWE will never learn in that aspect, they’ve hired countless body builders and pretty girls thinking they can turn them into superstars and it all falls apart as soon as they get in the ring. HHH has no one to blame but himself for hiring Jade, he should have known what he was getting.
Jade is a stiff, she got into wrestling too late. Tiny did all he could do with her, pretty much created a title for her to have so they could continue to push her hoping she would improve along The way. She didn’t. She’s WWE’s problem now. Just like Pillman Jr. I don’t think you will see either of them headlining ppv’s anytime soon.
How repirting on wwf firing more this week and the huge 2 lawsuirs against TKO lol now thats news!!!!!!!
I really don't get the hype around Cargill. I saw everything she did in AEW and her promos and work are both the shits. Yes she looks like a million bucks but this isn't bodybuilding and social media followers don't equal getting over.
MVP as a manager for her
Great Video
Man she had stokley as a manager for a minute but they changed him for smart mark sterling. I thought stokley would've worked for her
So Dave Meltzer was right? He said recently that she was seeing up close at the performance center, and WWE trainers weren't impressed.
Yall are nuts and there is missing context here. Shes in the PC being trained by Sarah Amatto, who herself was trained by Bryan Danielson. In AEW, Jade was being trained by Bryan Danielson ...so shes not gonna learn more from the "student" rather than the "teacher."
WWE is teaching Jade where they place cameras and how to read a script, not how to wrestle better.
Also, HOOK > Dominik.
WWE will make ten times more money off of Jade, than AEW ever could. Kenny needs to help that women’s division out(if that’s his job)
Jade with WWE training will be unreal, she is an amazing athlete.
She’s moves like robocop and looks like an American gladiator 🎉
Triple h fells duped
Win for khan
Then why they hire her?
Just because she was a AEW talent
If she was terrible, then why wwe fans wanted her?
Wwe making lame excuses they have no storyline for her yet
She got world recognition in AEW and became a star that is today
I love how you left out. It was Cody Rhodes who trained Jade. Also had Bryan Danielson & William Regal help her along as well. If they can't teach you. Jade just might be a bust.
Cody might not be a great teacher.
Also depends how much time they got to spend with her
@BrndnNZT48 or that she is just not that good. Same with Pillman Jr., who has it even harder with who his old man was & he was Hart Family trained as well. Though he is not a bad Tag Team guy. So maybe Pillman Jr should be in a Tag Team. Maybe sign Griff if he is not under contract with AEW still.
Dustin also had a hand in training her, seems to me like Paul just signed her so he could brag that they headhunted an AEW wrestler but then didn't know what to do with her next, he immediately had her paraded around NXT for a couple months but had no actual plan what to do next so he's using the "well she's had no training" as an excuse to not use her while they figure out what to do
Hook and Wardlow could have been some legit great AEW homegrown talent, they were over AF at one point early in their careers
Typical wwe. They can't accept someone that got over in a different company. They will make a joke out of her and then release.
well AEW must have done something right because WWE wanted her even with the limited skill set she always did. Plus before she got the contract she was worked out at the Performance Center so they knew her abilities. She trained at the Night Mare Factory and several other places. Steven Regal knew her from AEW and probably put a word in for her.
Problem with these younger aew guys is that they don't want to listen to anything the old timers have to say.
Oh, ffs. Stop it. HHH and TKO Wrestling couldn't be that much of a hypocrite. Impossible. One of the biggest name in WWF History was greener than Jade, and he wasn't the only one. Same with WCW. Seem like this type of thing runs in the industry in general. To pretend otherwise cuz AEW is beyond idiotic.
This is the only truth here; Jade came out looking like a million bucks thanks to AEW, same with Cody, and now is up to TKO Wrestling to cash in on it however they see fit. Can they? Not like they haven't fumbled entire rosters worth of wrestlers before or anything...
One shouldn't be throwing stones in a glass house and all that jazz is all I'm saying. 😐
We’re all still waiting to see Gable wrestle too. 🤷🏻
He wrestled on an nxt card I think. And the fans hated his performance.
@@MJ-sm2yu they should pay Kurt to come in & train him.
AEW pushed Cargill in the same manner that WCW pushed Goldberg, in quick dominating wins that didn't really do anything to help them become better workers.
Agree 100% Cant wait to see her matches when she's ready to face the WWE talent. Too bad Jade cant be trained by Tessa Blanchard.
What manager is going to do her like smartmark
The examples of Hook, Jack Perry etc. Is exactly what they did with Jade thew them out there without a safety net, so to speak, however with someone like Jade she listens to the legends like CM Punk, Byran Danielson, Dustin Rhodes etc. She wants to get better, improve etc. Ans it shows. Also she has improved greatly training with Tyson Kidd and Natty. Along with Ricky Starks, Kaun, Angelo Dawkins etc. Jade should do fine whenever she debuts.
I think they’re going to have this problem with EVERYONE from AEW that got their first job at AEW. Tony Kahn even said something along the lines of his performers have no training.
In terms of Jade Cargill; I’ve only seen her one promo where she came out talking to Cody and Brandi gets involved. It was awful. So all of this Jade hype made me think she had improved or something since that first promo. Apparently not 😂
Wtf his performers are already trained tho lol jade was exception based on looks and potential
She’s made for WWE, all sizzle no steak. Not necessarily a bad thing in the proper environment, which is where she’s at. Theyre going to push her to the moon whether the fans will accept her or not
WWE, and AEW for that matter, should sometimes push wrestlers that the fans don't necessarily like to attract viewers that aren't hardcore wrestling dorks. Wrestling fans can complain all they want but they'll still watch whatever is presented to them.
If it was up to the fans, (many of whom have never been in a fight) wimpy looking bums like Sami Zayne would be world champ.
That’s exactly what aew did , she’s just limited. Should’ve started earlier.
They really shud put her in nxt 1st
Cody trained her at the nightmare factory...she just hasn't got it yet but they papered over it because of her look
Absolutely
Jade Carcrash.... 😊
The poor thing didn't improve at all since getting to AEW!
Wasnt she trained at the nightmare factory by Cody?
She needs a mouthpiece, her walking out with heyman would be immense
I like HHH’s vision here. If you watch what he is doing with developmental, he is picking up people who have potential and taking them into the PC to get them the reps and give them the spit and polish they need to sustain the business as a whole.
If you take a look at some of the releases and where some are going, like NJPW, ROH, and yes AEW. Those talents will always be on the radar for a return. Sometimes you have to put people in a position to sink or swim in your system then send them out into the world to find their feet in other promotions if they have the desire to do so.
Back in the late 90s/early 00s, I use to go to the Memphis armory shows when WWE had a developmental program there. You could see the coaching and the development of crowd work happening….. Brian Danielson was there as well as some other bigger names in the last decade….. WWE has had a system in place to train, test, and develop talent for decades. The guys and gals got reps doing three shows a week…. Small venues and also got exposure when the big show came to the area.
AEW needs to take a page from the book and look at talent development differently if they want to maintain a market share of the business.
With examples like this, how can you say AEW > wwe
As a casual observer, I can't help but notice how much AEW fears playing the long game with their talent. They seem to always favor immediate gratification, over a good long game build up.
Most of the greatest moments in pro wrestling history were the result of a booker taking their time to develop a good story.
How the hell hasn't AEW made that connection yet?
Why are they always so short of breath with their story telling?
Their "no rematch policy" makes every longterm storytelling impossible.
I think it was they kept having guys get injured, ruining their attempts at long term stories.
@Lorric101
I agree with you on that aspect.
AEW's safety record is simply atrocious.
It's enough to make one wonder if Tony Kahn views his talent more as being Matchbox cars, than he does human beings
Just shows WWE haven't a clue what to do with talent. It's not that hard to figure out what to do with Jade Cargill even given her limited in ring ability. Just replicate her TBS run on NXT for like 2 years until shes main roster ready. If they feel like they can train her better, then do that for 2 years behind the scenes while she squashes the entire division there. Shes money on the mic and entertaining as hell so itd only generate more money and controversy for them, and that way it pays off for everyone in the long run if they can get her to main roster. Its really on WWE themselves if they cant make it work but they really shouldn't be burying her in the media like that if they want to make it work out.
I'd like to see MVP be Jade's manager. I think that would be a step in the right direction for Jade's presentation.
On the topic of Hook I remember reading comments, just after his debut, saying he was going to be a bigger star than Hulk Hogan.
A bigger star than Nick Hogan at best
Well one that you can't say hasn't improved by leaps and bounds is Julia Hart. At this point I'd rather have her on a roster that Jade Cargill any day, who knows if she'll amount to anything.
hey Dutch, do you think MVP could be the manager for Jade? Build her up to go against Bianca?
I mean, AEW doesn't have like an "official" training school/brand though. They've kinda leased it out to Dustin Rhodes and the Nightmare Factory, before QT quit anyway. AEW had more of a "learn on the job" approach, and she only improved so much from that. Now if AEW had a school and they put out wrestlers of her limited ability, then id say bury them. Saying AEW can't train because she sucks is like saying WWE couldn't train guys because the Great Khali sucked. He was a body/height guy of limited in ring ability. That's also what she is right now. Because she looks like freaking Wonder Woman.
Jade Cargill has to be retrained from Square One but you will become a top talent soon!
Winning is not necessarily working😮
My take on this is that when AEW first started, they had to be creative in putting their early roster together. As a result, many of their signees were imperfect or unfinished products. Jade always had the look. No doubt. And she's definitely athletic. But from what I've seen she hasn't shown much of anything as an actual in-ring worker and didn't really seem to improve. You can hide that in squash matches as AEW did, but you can't really have feuds or go any further. You can't put on bangers, because the matches are garbage unless you have a real magician in the ring with that person. A good look can take you a long way, but not all the way... at least not for long. I have come to wonder if Wardlow isn't a similar case. Looks great, super athletic, but very limited otherwise. I mean, can you really base a whole career on giving people four power bombs and nothing else? It isn't sustainable over the long haul. My point being that I think AEW utilized some undercooked talent and then used smoke and mirrors to make them look the best they could. I don't really have a problem with that. That's show biz. But you can only get away with doing that for so long before the novelty wears off and fans see through it. It also doesn't really benefit the performer long-term to be thrown into the spotlight before they are ready. AEW did what it had to do, but it could wind up being problematic for several of those performers' careers. I think what HHH is finding out right now is that there may not have been much behind Jade's smoke and mirrors. I would like to think that Jade and the people behind AEW were working together on her becoming better, but I don't know what that looked like day-to-day. It was obvious to me that Jade needed a lot of work. That's not a shot, just a fact. Several early AEW talents fall in that same category for me. They need more reps on and off-camera and I am not convinced that AEW has the infrastructure to do that properly. Love it or hate it, the WWE has a system to cultivate wrestlers and Jade will benefit from that. But there is also a chance that she just may not have the aptitude to be a great worker. She certainly wouldn't be the first wrestler who had a couple pieces of the puzzle but not all of them. Sorry, this was a long comment. I've been thinking about this topic for a while. lol
Where was WWE when AEW took a chance on her, made her known on TV to fans? Not to say AEW handled things flawlessly. Am saying WWE didn't take the chance on her when she was a nobody. They had the chance to sign her first and didn't.
Ok, I have one point that might undermine what you said: The ultimate warrior. Awful worker, unsafe, no real ability. Just a great look. But he rode that to the top. Alot of that was having guys who could work make him look better than he was. If the Warrior can be made into a world champion then I don't wanna hear that Jade can't find a place. You could also say that about Goldberg and even Sid to a degree. None of them were great but they all had a million dollar look. And WWE is the place that can make something like that work.
They could use an OVW as a training program
I agree with Triple H and Dutch on this
Dutch misspoke on quarterback contracts. The NFL league minimum is 827K. There isn't a single rookie starting QB making under a million.
People forget something really important if you want to improve do it yourself don’t wait for company or workplace to help you.
Jade is been wrestling for how long 2-3 years why if she had such problem not ask the veterans in AEW to help her..Covid was excellent time for her to improve.
WWE always sends most of the new talent to learn the wwe style but seems Jade is been having problems with learning previously and now will take longer time for her to absorb wrestling.
Self training is usually a trap. You need more eyes than your own to make aure you're on the right track.
@@alexs7670 I am not talking about self improvement you have Dustin Rhodes in AEW he literally run nxt woman’s training before and experience veterans nothing stopped Jade to ask for help and train with them when she had time off
Imagine just LOOKING at Jade Cargill and being like "yeah, she's not a fucking superhero"
She's gonna be badass in WWE and AEW has been absolutely embarrassed in a post CM Punk debut world. I already had lost any goodwill for AEW that I had, but goddamn it's worse than 2010 TNA and deathbed WCW.
It's a bunch of toxic idiots gaslighting and ripping off Tony Khan's Dad by telling poor TK that everything he's coming up with is great, but hey don't forget to renew my contract for 5+ years.