When I first watched a presentation on IO full preterism, the guy made a pretty compelling case, and I remember really hoping it was true, because that would mean I no longer had to fear judgment everytime I happened to have a lustful thought or anything like that. But I'm not sure what to believe, the more I study, the more confused I become.
IO Preterism makes a lot of sense, and seems to be a fitting end to the story. First century Christianity seems to be all about preaching the gospel to scattered Israel to prepare them for the soon return of their Messiah, who would then set up an earthly Israelite theocracy. But, as we get into the 2nd century and beyond, Christianity flourishes as a non-Israelite Greco/Roman religion. Why and how did that happen? That’s what confuses me.
@@jackshadow325Well, I think their answer would be that they inserted themselves into texts that were never meant for them, and reinterpreted those texts in order to apply the religion to everyone. I know Jen has spoken about audience relevance a lot, and to be honest, it's hard not to feel a sense of imposter syndrome trying to fit ourselves into passages that weren't written to us. However, I do agree with you that if that were the case, it seems bizarre that Christianity flourished the way that it has, I mean it's become the largest religion by far, and nearly every country in the world is either majority Christian or majority Muslim at this point. You'd think at least one person would have been like "uh, hey guys, this doesn't have anything to do with us, we're basically stealing Israel's story and passing it off as our own", but that didn't happen, so it's hard to know what to think.
Ignorant. Is she slow or dishonest. The promise to Abraham. "All the nations will be blessed through You." This is basic. Also for solid teaching try Jacob Prasch.
Great representatives of a biblical reality. Thank you Jen and Alan for your honesty and scholarship. I am not where you two are in the departure from the faith, but as friends prior to your departure, I hope to continue to regard you both as friends and I wish you both blessings. I am very excited to, and look forward to reading Alan's forthcoming book.
This is quite good naming as I believe the same part of the brain lights up for Addicts and Religious excitement. So the neurological basis of the misattribution and (Addiction) aspect is very explainable. Great work guys thanks for being honest and congratulations on waking up to the BS. So often when people with intelligence and honestly seeking the truth study the bible then end up leaving religion.
I've never heard the view that both the gospels and epistles were being written during the war. That would be quite the project. I mean the most amazing writing project coordination in history. Wouldn't they also have to write the Old Testament prophets at that time too because the writers were just quoting the Old Testament?
Thank you both for your stories of how you arrived at a preterist interpretation. I have a question for Alan: if the church you were at as a youth pastor had been more accepting of you instead of tossing you out as a heretic, do you think you might still be a believing Christian today?
@@DuXQaK I think we have all been hurt by the "Church"... If any of us have been involved in a real way and have given our hearts and energies to a local assembly, it is inevitable that hurt will occur. But it s in reality NOT the church that hurt us, it is the "WHO" from within the church. It is always an individual that is responsible for the foul treatment. I have not left the faith in any way shape or form, but I have left the church (Decades ago). I do not deny the "Who hurt you" effect, but each person has their own story as to why they left. I think with Alan and Jen (if you do not mind me assuming) it was more of an academic and eruditious departure. i am sure they can relate stories of hurt from members of the church. But I believe that they were strong enough to bear that. I believe their departure was more from a logical and rational perspective.
Very interesting stuff. I’m a full preterist who believes that both covenants ended in 70 ad with the destruction of the temple. No one today can be a Biblical Christian because that could only include the ekklesia from 30-70 AD until all was fulfilled. Full preterists who believe they’re in Israel’s covenant today are completely at odds with themselves. That said, I’m wondering if any part of the preterist hermeneutic has anything to do with your path to atheism. I have zero interest in trying to talk either of you out of your current position. I’m only interested in how we could be in agreement about certain elements of true preterism and land in such different places. I believe in the veracity of the Bible much more now than I did when I was a “Christian “. Any insight on this you could provide would be educational. Thank you.
Hi Jen. I asked the same NC question to many of my Christian friends as well, (how does it apply to us?) and recently someone tried using Isa. 56...that the OC made provisions for the "strangers/foreigners" to have a relationship withGod, and so does the NC. Have you encountered this perspective? It seems far fetched to me. 🤔
The irony of an Atheists demanding a system of interpretation from a book. Particularly when Atheist critical scholarship has most of the NT being written in the 2nd century. LOL
When I first watched a presentation on IO full preterism, the guy made a pretty compelling case, and I remember really hoping it was true, because that would mean I no longer had to fear judgment everytime I happened to have a lustful thought or anything like that. But I'm not sure what to believe, the more I study, the more confused I become.
IO Preterism makes a lot of sense, and seems to be a fitting end to the story. First century Christianity seems to be all about preaching the gospel to scattered Israel to prepare them for the soon return of their Messiah, who would then set up an earthly Israelite theocracy. But, as we get into the 2nd century and beyond, Christianity flourishes as a non-Israelite Greco/Roman religion. Why and how did that happen? That’s what confuses me.
@@jackshadow325Well, I think their answer would be that they inserted themselves into texts that were never meant for them, and reinterpreted those texts in order to apply the religion to everyone. I know Jen has spoken about audience relevance a lot, and to be honest, it's hard not to feel a sense of imposter syndrome trying to fit ourselves into passages that weren't written to us. However, I do agree with you that if that were the case, it seems bizarre that Christianity flourished the way that it has, I mean it's become the largest religion by far, and nearly every country in the world is either majority Christian or majority Muslim at this point. You'd think at least one person would have been like "uh, hey guys, this doesn't have anything to do with us, we're basically stealing Israel's story and passing it off as our own", but that didn't happen, so it's hard to know what to think.
Ignorant. Is she slow or dishonest. The promise to Abraham. "All the nations will be blessed through You." This is basic. Also for solid teaching try Jacob Prasch.
I can relate to Alan's opening story. I appreciate it, for in the end he chose to be honest with the scriptures. 😊
Great representatives of a biblical reality. Thank you Jen and Alan for your honesty and scholarship. I am not where you two are in the departure from the faith, but as friends prior to your departure, I hope to continue to regard you both as friends and I wish you both blessings. I am very excited to, and look forward to reading Alan's forthcoming book.
This is quite good naming as I believe the same part of the brain lights up for Addicts and Religious excitement.
So the neurological basis of the misattribution and (Addiction) aspect is very explainable.
Great work guys thanks for being honest and congratulations on waking up to the BS.
So often when people with intelligence and honestly seeking the truth study the bible then end up leaving religion.
I've never heard the view that both the gospels and epistles were being written during the war. That would be quite the project. I mean the most amazing writing project coordination in history. Wouldn't they also have to write the Old Testament prophets at that time too because the writers were just quoting the Old Testament?
Thank you both for your stories of how you arrived at a preterist interpretation. I have a question for Alan: if the church you were at as a youth pastor had been more accepting of you instead of tossing you out as a heretic, do you think you might still be a believing Christian today?
Oh the "who hurt you?" denial... hmmm
Hard to say because my circumstances helped get me here. I would like to think so though. Doubt they would have let me stay as an atheist either. 😂
@@DuXQaK I think we have all been hurt by the "Church"... If any of us have been involved in a real way and have given our hearts and energies to a local assembly, it is inevitable that hurt will occur. But it s in reality NOT the church that hurt us, it is the "WHO" from within the church. It is always an individual that is responsible for the foul treatment. I have not left the faith in any way shape or form, but I have left the church (Decades ago). I do not deny the "Who hurt you" effect, but each person has their own story as to why they left. I think with Alan and Jen (if you do not mind me assuming) it was more of an academic and eruditious departure. i am sure they can relate stories of hurt from members of the church. But I believe that they were strong enough to bear that. I believe their departure was more from a logical and rational perspective.
There is no god - only man made stories about a Hebrew god invented by tribes living on the Sinai Peninsula.
Very interesting stuff. I’m a full preterist who believes that both covenants ended in 70 ad with the destruction of the temple.
No one today can be a Biblical Christian because that could only include the ekklesia from 30-70 AD until all was fulfilled.
Full preterists who believe they’re in Israel’s covenant today are completely at odds with themselves.
That said, I’m wondering if any part of the preterist hermeneutic has anything to do with your path to atheism. I have zero interest in trying to talk either of you out of your current position. I’m only interested in how we could be in agreement about certain elements of true preterism and land in such different places.
I believe in the veracity of the Bible much more now than I did when I was a “Christian “.
Any insight on this you could provide would be educational. Thank you.
Hi Jen. I asked the same NC question to many of my Christian friends as well, (how does it apply to us?) and recently someone tried using Isa. 56...that the OC made provisions for the "strangers/foreigners" to have a relationship withGod, and so does the NC. Have you encountered this perspective? It seems far fetched to me. 🤔
There answer is biblical under the new Better covenant
The irony of an Atheists demanding a system of interpretation from a book. Particularly when Atheist critical scholarship has most of the NT being written in the 2nd century. LOL
You were flat-earth Full Preterists. Hardly just like anything else lol