No one wants this game more than me but being a realist I don't see it happening. After 6 years they're still in pre-alpha (EverQuest took about 1-2 years to develop and release) and sure they may now have the bones but there is SO much to add in order to make it a robust MMORPG. Best case scenario its released in 2030.
This is kind of what I was getting at. It's there, It's the game I pledged to and the game I want, but the time is an even greater concern for me now than it was back when I made a concerns video about this and Ashes.
In 2018 I went to PAX east and met brad in person at the pantheon exhibit on the floor. We talked for a bit about bards and enchanters in everquest and I said I had to sit down since I had surgery recently and can't be on the floor much, and he said he was a little exhausted on the floor and needed to take a side break and figured he'd sit at a random panel. We actually went to the square-enix panel, and there was technical difficulties, and I was laughing because brad absolutely hated it. It wasn't entirely their fault, it was the venue's screen not working so they fell onto slide shows and cards and it was a train wreck. Its just this weird bizarre wholesome memory I have hanging out with brad at a panel that he absolutely did not like and was complaining about it lol :D i'll never forget it. I still have my pantheon swag from that day too
Seeing how VR is now going into a different art direction, it makes me wonder just how much further this game going to be pushed back and I can't help but "why the change?"
I was a very early backer of Pantheon. I did the Knight's pledge (not even available anymore) back on Kickstarter so I have definitely been rooting for Pantheon. That was back in 2014 and the game was supposed to launch in 2017. My pledge gave me access to alpha test and it's now almost 2024 and I STILL don't have access to alpha. Sadly, I have become more of a Debbie downer on this game in recent years. The progress shown in this video would have made me more excited if I was watching it 5 years ago but the fact that it's 2023 makes me rather skeptical. Not because they aren't building something good but that they just can't complete the game in a timeframe that is viable. This game is still MANY years away at the very least. Can they really sustain themselves until 2028 or whatever when it launches and even if they can will there still be enough people interested that anyone will care? It already looks dated (which I don't mind) but in 4 more years it will be REALLY dated. I just don't have confidence they have enough people/resrouces to make enough progress to complete the game in a way that would be considered acceptable. I predict it gets canceled or releases in a terrible, unfinished state (reminiscent of Vanguard actually).
Remember the main work is the mmo aspect; they'll be able to update the graphics along with updates to the engine which was unreal or unity I can't recall. Won't necessarily look so dated.
I think they've bitten off more than they can chew and they have a code-base to add some bells and whistles to in order to keep the funding coming but everyone at that studio should be updating their resumes and looking for something else.
I feel the same. I'm not sure if they are just on very limited funds since I haven't been keeping up with it, but it still feels rather far off. It's definitely a game that I don't keep on my radar until it actually comes out or even looks like it could come out in the next 2 years. Doesn't help that Brad McQuaid died. He was the main thing that gave me hope for the game.
im so excited to come back from the grave to watch my great great great grandchildren play the game I helped fund. Hey...at least my name will be in the credits....
I think Pantheon will launch in 25, 3025 Go battle tech go. Seriously though, with the new art update, they may finally get it over the top. Hopeful here.
What a great job you did of presenting a thoughtful, balanced, and informative video! The amount of work you put in here really shows through. And now if you will excuse me, I have to go make some crafting videos 😅 ~Therek
I appreciate your cautious optimism; and hope that sensibility prevails among the fans as more footage and testing get ever closer. It's wild seeing people doing the same things we did over Vanguard, with Pantheon. I had the fortune of being quite active in the MMORPG testing scene in the distant past. I tested Vanguard during it's earliest technical tests till release and had broke my own ethics rule... I pre-ordered the game and hyped it up for the promise of what it offered... instead of what it was. Then Sigil closed soon after among numerous controversies and the game chugged on life support for years. I hope they succeed and stay with realistic goals. "We don't need graveyards. We need villages."
Been hoping this game can reach the finish line for years. I don't have my doubts that it can be done, but I do have my doubts it will have a large enough audience when it does. Because progression on the game has been so slow, I think the perception of Pantheon for many is that it's simply a dead game. Sadly, getting this opportunity to see some actual gameplay footage from someone who's not part of the creative team hasn't done much to stem my fears in these regards. Time will tell I suppose.
@@RedbeardflynnFinding Ion Blaze here in UA-cam, chasing a bit a nostalgia, got me to Bazgrim, which got me to Pantheon, which got me to you, Redbeard.
I feel like the quality of Alpha will determine the time it will take to get to launch. If Alpha is successful and gets the attention of a publisher that will believe in the vision, provide funds and not force them to change their creation in any way, the team will be able to hire so many more people which will create a snowball effect toward launch. If Alpha fizzles...well, gonna need a lot more pledges.
The game does not need to be a massive success to be profitable. The modern mmorpg landscape will be a bunch of smaller more niche mmorpgs, rather than large, overarching, "try to be everything for everyone" type mmorpgs. Then everyone can simply play the type of game they want, rather than force games into being what you want them to be.
I love the game. I love the design philosophy. I love the devs. I'm not worried about graphics being outdated or anything stupid like that. I'm worried that people who are here right now are so impatient, that they are going to spook off most of the new audience this game might attract and hinder its launch when it's finally actually ready.
With how modern mmos work, this game will either be niche, which isn't a bad thing, or it could explode in popularity for being so different. The devs here are making what I think of when I think of mmo.
If the game is good it will speak for itself, no need to worry about what people (like myself) are saying. I just do not want to see people throwing their money to support a "dream" and nothing more :(
you are worried about impatient people? Mate, this project is over 10 years old now. and the pre-alpha footage we got look like what students hack together with the trial edition of unity during a 3-day hackaton...
@@vincenthamel3420 Vaguely curious. Is there any particular reason you feel the need to stop on my particular corner of the internet specifically to be a douche? Do you get something out of it? Does it come naturally? Did you receive some specialized douche training that most people aren't privy to? Tell me your ways master douche.
Great video! Yea the hole release thing is why I haven’t pledged any money. Once they announce beta, I’ll easily throw in 100 bucks. My only concern is is this game ever going to come out?
I am still very hopefull for this game and I appreciate that they are taking their time. I can tell as I am sure many of us can, that there still is quite a lot of work ahead. It looks pretty good and the climbing and the need to explore have me very interested. Expectations are high and I would like to see some major progress in the next 6 months to a year.
The perception system is really nice and it’s the kind of different I hope other games implement. I have thoughts of a high perception high intellect wizard exploring and learning lore in game
How do you stay hopefull? At this point I'm sure a small team of computer science student with the trial edition of UE4 could do a better demo than this within a week or two....
Great video. Loved the presentation. My hope is that the alledged “client” you mentioned exists and that areas like Faerthale are near complete. Time will tell!
@redbeardflynn very balanced and thoughtful perspective in this video - greatly appreciated. I'm very optimistic about Visionary Realms (albeit cautionary). Not only do they have a very difficult job, but they are bombarded with naysayers. I really hope we can continue to show them our support. I've been following since the Kickstarter days and I have never really considered "giving up" on the devs or the game. I just hope they continue to feel the same way and keep moving onward and upward.
Pantheon throws off some strong Vanguard: Saga of Heroes vibe. I don't consider that a bad thing, as I actually enjoyed Vanguard even though I didn't play it nearly as much as EverQuest. Really looking forward to finally getting into the game. It's been quite the wait on this one. ;)
Much more Camelot than Vanguard, actually, in terms of combat model. Vanguard is far more modern than the OG trifecta; EQ, Camelot, FF11. More akin to later iterations like EQ2 or LotR (brain dead easy questing, low TTK high APM).
Good video brother, nicely worked. But deep down you, and everyone else knows this game isn't going to make it. It's taking way too long and in 3 years' time when it finally stumbles into beta as some watered down version of what people pledged their money towards - no one but a tiny core of people will care about it anymore. Other smaller groups/devs are making games to fill the MMO void this game is targeting and they are having faster progression than the snail pace this game progresses at. This means they are facing competition in the target audience who is moving on to games that probably most likely will deliver before Pantheon even gets into beta. They recently announced an art/style direction change which basically wipes out the reason why some people pledged: after all those glam shots they were producing (the forest shots). I mean where does the chopping and changing stop for this game. It's 7+ years into production and they are deciding now to restart the art direction of the game? At this stage what they have produced looks and plays worse than EQ1
Love this video, Red! I love your thoughtful approach and comments, both with praise and very valid concerns. I hope you do another video soon, like later this month maybe 😉
Just from the few videos i've seen, it almost seems like the devs might've tried to make the world a bit too big.. i think scaling it back to a smaller sized zones/areas like in early EQ, would help them to narrow their focus.
EverQuest Online Adventures for PS2 was my favorite MMO, maybe even my favorite game of all time. I've been following this one for years and I really hope this game is successful.
Interesting that this was still the old art style. What do you think of the new look? Are you going to be able to get to play with the new art style soon?
I don't know if I'll get to play anytime soon but I'd be interested once they have the world converted to the new art style. As far as the difference, I kind of went over it in the latest news update in a video but the tldr; I'm not sure if I like it more or less because my comparison is to the graphics you see in this video and for that I think I prefer it. It's more timeless and less dated. But compared to what *could* have been with some of the models we saw of updated models that we would be getting eventually. But if it gets the game to launch faster? I'm fine with it because I was never married to the graphic style of Pantheon as much as the Gameplay.
As someone that has also played in the pre-alpha, these are pretty much my thoughts. It played a lot better than you'd think looking at footage. The classes actually start getting a decent toolkit within the first 5 levels and no matter how basic it seems, from the classes I've played it flows really well and the resources give enough of a bucket to pool and delegate what to use when in a tactical sense, versus every other MMO requiring you to spam an optimal rotation and avoid clipping the GCD. But man, I've always been worried about them actually having the workforce to get the game made. I would have said with recent progress that yes, they're definitely going to launch, but there always seems to be some kind of setback and it's hard to give that benefit of the doubt over and over. They've talked about something recently which can't be disclosed yet, and much like announcements in the past, it sounds like it'll help their production pipeline for moving the project along but it's hard to believe it at this point. I do hope they get a good goove and momentum going forward, but it feels like the inertia hasn't ever been in their favor.
I’ve been following this game for about 7 years or so. What I’ve learned: people have too high of expectations and not enough patience. So much negativity around how it looks or how far they’ve come. Most of the work they have put in-in the recent couple of years has made it to where they can add large amounts of the world much easier and making programming easier for the small team they have. Great things have come from garage projects and I refuse to let “the past” failures of games (especially in this genre) taint what Brad had conceived and what Chris and the team as well as the community have put into it. Looking forward to seeing some of you on Terminus and exploring this amazing game the team has poured their hearts and souls into.
People's expectations were high because VR set them high. A key pillar of successful product management is managing stakeholder expectations. VR kept moving the goal post. Especially before Brad died. He was perhaps overly optimistic about their ability to get this out the door sooner.
Great video man! I'm really excited to see more Pantheon and one big take away from your information was the climbing system. You can tell the devs were inspired by games like Breath of the Wild (I think I even saw a stamina bar next to the monk character) which is so nice to see. Systems like that add so much and more mmos should take note honestly
The mention of FF14 combat is somewhat ominous to me. Early to mid level FF14 combat is fantastic. But at top level (I mained Dragoon), you basically had one rotation that you cycled endlessly while trying to dodge red circles. This rotation did not have room for decisions or options. It was quite specific and sequential with a relatively strict timing. I really hope they don't go that way.
As someone who avidly played EQ and has been following this game for years, the ONE thing that gets me about the combat is a lack of a reaction or movement by the mob. As you pointed out when you pulled a mob in EQ, you paid attention, you really need to heal right, taunt right etc. But I just wish mobs in this game had more reaction. When they parry it looks like a parry, when you dodge it looks like a dodge. They should make combat much more engaging and I wouldn't mind the grind at all. I just don't like the fact that it looks like you are playing whack a mole on a mob.
I have a paid copy of this game and if it ever comes out I may never even bother installing it. Game will be DOA. Pretty sure at this point. Crowfall 2.0.
Thanks a lot for the deep dive. I've been really wanting to get to know more about Pantheon and you've answered a bunch of the questions I've had, so thank you. I've had my eye on this one for a long time and this video makes me even more excited to finally hear a launch date.
I'm so excited for this game. I am an EQ player who has been in search for a similar game since the fall of EQ. (I know it's still around, but the population is low and everyone boxes) When I heard about this game years ago I was like no way, and to see it being in the pre alpha stage fills me with joy because it won't be long before it's released. I like that group gathering addition, that's amazingly unique. I myself will be playing enchanter, because that's all I do.
Awesome! Biggest thing for me is that it's still the game we thought it would be. Looking forward to getting into it. And, yes, it's gotta be a huge undertaking to self fund a mmo. More so, to do a quality one that requires careful planning and precise implementation.
I'm with you on the timeline. My biggest concern with the time to market is that it will feel dated by the time it is live. And then as you mentioned, will the market for it be gone by the time it comes out.
On balance, overall I'd guess this project will end up being successful. It's basically a reimagining of EQ. People long for a hardcore classic experience like this, I'm pretty sure I'll play it.
I'm loving following this game, I just get really nervous about the graphics quality - it looks 10 years old. I'm sure there's a lot of placeholder graphics but things such as worldbuilding are generally not placeholders. The systems behind the game look very promising, I'm just hoping the rest of it can be brought up to the same quality before launch.
Would definitely recommend checking out this video as they made some substantial art changes they announced this month: ua-cam.com/video/hZtDRvmWJNo/v-deo.htmlsi=N3L_H01mKKQlD7cN
I think you did a great job on your review. It is nice to see that they invited streamers to get a peek at the current state of the game. However some of the things that you touched on that is monumental, is how much is needed still and how long it will take. The games graphics and skins of the characters is already outdated, and the big problem is,you have tons of mmos such as Eternal tombs, Ashes of creation, Quinfall and well Daybrake is now starting on creating EQ 3. this is been slated for a 2028 release date. i dont know if they will be able to complete if one of them other pull off a more stunning MMO.
All very valid. Competition is growing over the next few years which as a fan of mmos in general makes me happy to see but does also mean increased competition for pantheon. Their recent art style change i think could be them partially realizing this and wanting to speed things up.
I am so tired of games that have no loss, or lack the trinity/class roles. I've been hoping this game would succeed for years, but I still dont have much hope for it. If i need to wait for a final release, it's just gonna be too late at that point. I really think they should aim to get to the point where it is an open beta/alpha. I really hope they never have cross-server play, or anything that detracts from having a solid community. In addition, I hope they dont focus on any type of kill/collect/escort quest type leveling. I'm sooooo tired of games resorting to those to level or play the game.
I personally believe since Brad McQuaid death they have no idea what to do with the game. Instead of admitting that or defeat they keep saying it is going to come out. It has been 4 years since Brad died yet the game is still in pre alpha.
sounds like harvesting/crafting is similar/borrowing from Vanguard: SOH. team harvesting is in Vanguard. Someone helping you harvest was a way to increase your bounty from cutting down that tree, skinning that animal, mining, or from reaping those plants...
Being a solo player id like to see solo worked on and fleshed out more or have the ability to just use ai controlled mercs to build a group not ideal for a mmo, but itd be much prefered then a slow grind by ones self.
I think people need to look at the entire picture incuding the state of the world at the moment. Things are hard and this wonderul hardworking team have families as well. I know the average person doesnt think of thisor necessarily care, but lets be reaistic in our assessments. Flynn wonderful video and take brother.
Great video Red. My thoughts are on the same page; seems like the game I've been waiting for, happy to wait... but for how long? Im hopefully VR will show some meaningful new progress soon.
Crowfall did group-harvesting too which was fun. Sucks that game went defunct though. I've been hoping to see more Pantheon as this is at the top of my list for interests.
I like what they're going for here, i understand this is an alpha so I'm not gonna judge too hard, but one thing I hope they do, is animate the characters in a way that gives them weight, for me how the characters move and feel is very important, this is one of my biggest issues with ffxiv, how everyone feels paper thin. For someone who plays old school ffxi I have feeling pantheon will be right up my alley.
They have to know if they release a game that looks and plays like this, they will spend the next decade fending off lawsuits from backers. As chronicles of Elyria showed, the best move a company with a non viable product can make is to always appear to be working on it. They had a really simple mission statement starting out, but now it looks like a student project. There is no mass market appeal and including things like “climbing” lol is not going to help their case with EverQuest players.
They need to have a session that allows alpha subs to play to get some support back. I understand I’m alpha and this is pre alpha but I did not know if was going to be pre alpha n+1………n
I have been following this game since 2015 and was super keen due to having played EverQuest from 1999 to 2004 However I have now put this game into the kick starter scam category like Star Citizen. With no release date stated how long are people meant to follow the dangled carrot. Decades ?
Very nice video man, i enjoyed it a lot. I agree with pretty much everything you said, my own personal view is that the game looks -already- a bit dated and the longer it takes to launch, the worse that becomes. Now, i know, i play EQ and graphics and what not really mean nothing to me. But for newer generations of gamers, those things mean much more and i fear it would be quite the turn off for a big portion of potential players, if it takes too long for the game to drop and other newer alternatives are out there for the taking., which look better and are more smooth overall. Anyway, my 2cp. Thanks again :)
100% agree couldn't have said it better myself. The longer to release the more it will fall behind graphically and you know gamers love their 4k HDR Ray Tracing mumbo jumbo. So yeah it may capture EQ players but will that be enough to keep it going? And overhauling the graphics depends how scalable they built the game and from what I've learned its pretty "hard-coded" :(
I truly hope it does come to fruition. It looks promising. I did pledge to it back in Kickstarter, forget about it for a while, then things pop up again. I am also glad that they are not just rushing the game out to get it out. Most games that do that, fail pretty quickly, and had great potential. Thanks for the honest opinion. I am remaining hopeful!
I'v been waiting Pantheon since 2015.... 2019,2020 i gave up on that and by the looks of it even if the game launches i dont think it will have longevity
When I see mmo like this in 2023 with a presentation like from 2001 game I have to say NO !!! fcking static combat, movement, UI etc...this is a HUGE step back
If this game was being created by a team that cares about it, then it would have been released a decade ago. The devs took thousands of dollars from people to make this game, and are just taking their time with that money and likely working on other unrelated projects... it's literally impossible for a game of this quality (low quality graphics etc) to take over a decade to make.
I understand your point, but tormented development cycles aren't new to games, especially MMOs. Throne and Liberty from NCSoft is working on 12-13 years of development and was roundly criticized for being out of touch and basic in combat when they showed their closed beta earlier this year to the point where they have delayed it to make changes. Being frustrated is one thing, but it's not that unusual or nefarious. As I said in the video, there are things that make me disappointed, specifically cadence.
Yeah I want to see a crafting vid. When I got into EQ in 05 as a Carpenter making the dowel, making the nail's, making the pad yeah it took a while, you needed say 5 of each wood to make 1 dowel say 5 stone to make a nail 5 leather or so to make a 1 pad and u need several....... they slimed it down at some point maybe LU 20? and really made it simple in 2008 or so. and don't get me started on an armorer when ingredients took twice as much and the forge killed you .....
After hearing about EverQuest 3 promotion for next year I really thought Visionary sold Pantheon to SoE, I'm glad they're still working on it, ever since the first preview of them showing the world map, then following from 2018 or 19 I've been hyped for this to be finished to knock out these so called modern MMOs sorry WoW fans, EQ will always be the throne game. The way this has turned out it will swap out EQ 's seat and replace with Pantheon and McQuaid will be smiling down on blizzard and SoE. Watching the stream on the creators raid was fantastic. Hopefully 2024 or 25 will be the year of challenge 's. With Pantheon presentation every where.😊🎉😅
I've been following this game's progression for like the last 8 years when I first heard about it from a pal on Project 1999 (Everquest Private server). All I can say is, holy $%#& it's come such a long way!! My only question to all your viewers is this: HOW do I convince my conservative, thrifty wife to allow me to spend money on this game?!?!?!
I have been clean and sober from EverQuest 19 years 5 months, and have hardly touched any MMOs since then. Pantheon is the game I want to play. I've waited this long. I can wait longer. It's not as if the world doesn't have all kinds of other things to do for fun. Here's hoping for Alpha 2025, or maybe a bit sooner. But you're right. There's a LOT more work to be down on the Road to Alpha.
I think ashes is targeting a bit of a different audience largely due to pvp and the node system as well as toggleable action or tab target combat. I could see both mmos existing within their own market with substantial crossover but even if their are similarities ffxiv and wow existing together and both seeing success is a best case scenario where they don't necessarily cannibalize each other.
Pantheon has blackpilled me some what, I got a chance to see the new cartoon style graphics and for me at least I am just Bleh. I am worried that they are now rushing to get this out and will cut corners. Hopefully the game is suppose to be what it is, maybe by 2030 they will have everything in it ;)
You rarely talk about meaningfull CC witch was a big part of EQ early day and to a extend in early WOW, but is complety inexistant in latest MMO. That used to make grouping and have role to get diff CC very important and make combat ever more strategic. How CC fir in this new MMO looking very like EQ ?
I didn't get to group with an Enchanter (the CC class) so I didn't really get to experience how good it is but the part with the bandits shows how quickly things can go sour if you're not careful. I imagine an enchanter in that situation...ok no I Really messed up with that pull, but a less terrible pull maybe they could have salvaged it with CC.
HUGE Update on graphics - ua-cam.com/video/hZtDRvmWJNo/v-deo.htmlsi=N3L_H01mKKQlD7cN
My hype for this game died years ago. I will wait for beta to even think about it again.
No one wants this game more than me but being a realist I don't see it happening. After 6 years they're still in pre-alpha (EverQuest took about 1-2 years to develop and release) and sure they may now have the bones but there is SO much to add in order to make it a robust MMORPG. Best case scenario its released in 2030.
This is kind of what I was getting at. It's there, It's the game I pledged to and the game I want, but the time is an even greater concern for me now than it was back when I made a concerns video about this and Ashes.
Yesss glad you’re gonna talk about your experience!
In 2018 I went to PAX east and met brad in person at the pantheon exhibit on the floor. We talked for a bit about bards and enchanters in everquest and I said I had to sit down since I had surgery recently and can't be on the floor much, and he said he was a little exhausted on the floor and needed to take a side break and figured he'd sit at a random panel. We actually went to the square-enix panel, and there was technical difficulties, and I was laughing because brad absolutely hated it. It wasn't entirely their fault, it was the venue's screen not working so they fell onto slide shows and cards and it was a train wreck. Its just this weird bizarre wholesome memory I have hanging out with brad at a panel that he absolutely did not like and was complaining about it lol :D
i'll never forget it. I still have my pantheon swag from that day too
Seeing how VR is now going into a different art direction, it makes me wonder just how much further this game going to be pushed back and I can't help but "why the change?"
I was a very early backer of Pantheon. I did the Knight's pledge (not even available anymore) back on Kickstarter so I have definitely been rooting for Pantheon. That was back in 2014 and the game was supposed to launch in 2017. My pledge gave me access to alpha test and it's now almost 2024 and I STILL don't have access to alpha. Sadly, I have become more of a Debbie downer on this game in recent years. The progress shown in this video would have made me more excited if I was watching it 5 years ago but the fact that it's 2023 makes me rather skeptical. Not because they aren't building something good but that they just can't complete the game in a timeframe that is viable.
This game is still MANY years away at the very least. Can they really sustain themselves until 2028 or whatever when it launches and even if they can will there still be enough people interested that anyone will care? It already looks dated (which I don't mind) but in 4 more years it will be REALLY dated. I just don't have confidence they have enough people/resrouces to make enough progress to complete the game in a way that would be considered acceptable. I predict it gets canceled or releases in a terrible, unfinished state (reminiscent of Vanguard actually).
Won’t be surprised if/when they cancel this game
Remember the main work is the mmo aspect; they'll be able to update the graphics along with updates to the engine which was unreal or unity I can't recall. Won't necessarily look so dated.
I think they've bitten off more than they can chew and they have a code-base to add some bells and whistles to in order to keep the funding coming but everyone at that studio should be updating their resumes and looking for something else.
I feel the same. I'm not sure if they are just on very limited funds since I haven't been keeping up with it, but it still feels rather far off. It's definitely a game that I don't keep on my radar until it actually comes out or even looks like it could come out in the next 2 years. Doesn't help that Brad McQuaid died. He was the main thing that gave me hope for the game.
I'm in the same place OP. Enjoying time with other games and trying my hardest not to feel like I wasted my hope on this one.
im so excited to come back from the grave to watch my great great great grandchildren play the game I helped fund.
Hey...at least my name will be in the credits....
LOL!!!!
The best part is, you can make this same pre alpha video aging 5 years from now.
Thanks for the honest take Red. I appreciate the real praise along with the very valid concerns.
I think Pantheon will launch in 25, 3025 Go battle tech go. Seriously though, with the new art update, they may finally get it over the top. Hopeful here.
Man. Won't believe it till it is released. Same as Everquest Next.
Embers adrift is doing it right and is very similar to pantheon
What a great job you did of presenting a thoughtful, balanced, and informative video! The amount of work you put in here really shows through. And now if you will excuse me, I have to go make some crafting videos 😅 ~Therek
Haha, the people need it, Therek!
Redbeardflynn is deceptively toxic individual, and I for one really hope to not encounter them in Pantheon or any other game ever again.
I pledged. On the fence as to whether or not it will release.... I hope it does.
I pledged same feeling
Same. I'm confused how there isn't enough there to open alpha. It makes me think something is wrong.
I appreciate your cautious optimism; and hope that sensibility prevails among the fans as more footage and testing get ever closer.
It's wild seeing people doing the same things we did over Vanguard, with Pantheon.
I had the fortune of being quite active in the MMORPG testing scene in the distant past. I tested Vanguard during it's earliest technical tests till release and had broke my own ethics rule... I pre-ordered the game and hyped it up for the promise of what it offered... instead of what it was. Then Sigil closed soon after among numerous controversies and the game chugged on life support for years.
I hope they succeed and stay with realistic goals. "We don't need graveyards. We need villages."
Been hoping this game can reach the finish line for years. I don't have my doubts that it can be done, but I do have my doubts it will have a large enough audience when it does. Because progression on the game has been so slow, I think the perception of Pantheon for many is that it's simply a dead game. Sadly, getting this opportunity to see some actual gameplay footage from someone who's not part of the creative team hasn't done much to stem my fears in these regards. Time will tell I suppose.
The hype has definitely died down.
Redbeardflynn yeeeeyah! Kicking butt in pantheon!
Thought you'd be interested to see this one, Blaze
@@RedbeardflynnFinding Ion Blaze here in UA-cam, chasing a bit a nostalgia, got me to Bazgrim, which got me to Pantheon, which got me to you, Redbeard.
I feel like the quality of Alpha will determine the time it will take to get to launch. If Alpha is successful and gets the attention of a publisher that will believe in the vision, provide funds and not force them to change their creation in any way, the team will be able to hire so many more people which will create a snowball effect toward launch.
If Alpha fizzles...well, gonna need a lot more pledges.
The game does not need to be a massive success to be profitable. The modern mmorpg landscape will be a bunch of smaller more niche mmorpgs, rather than large, overarching, "try to be everything for everyone" type mmorpgs. Then everyone can simply play the type of game they want, rather than force games into being what you want them to be.
They don't need a publisher.
I love the game. I love the design philosophy. I love the devs. I'm not worried about graphics being outdated or anything stupid like that. I'm worried that people who are here right now are so impatient, that they are going to spook off most of the new audience this game might attract and hinder its launch when it's finally actually ready.
With how modern mmos work, this game will either be niche, which isn't a bad thing, or it could explode in popularity for being so different. The devs here are making what I think of when I think of mmo.
If the game is good it will speak for itself, no need to worry about what people (like myself) are saying. I just do not want to see people throwing their money to support a "dream" and nothing more :(
you are worried about impatient people?
Mate, this project is over 10 years old now. and the pre-alpha footage we got look like what students hack together with the trial edition of unity during a 3-day hackaton...
@@vincenthamel3420 Vaguely curious. Is there any particular reason you feel the need to stop on my particular corner of the internet specifically to be a douche? Do you get something out of it? Does it come naturally? Did you receive some specialized douche training that most people aren't privy to? Tell me your ways master douche.
@@FUall19956 There is not a snowball's chance in hell of Pantheon exploding in popularity.
Great video! Yea the hole release thing is why I haven’t pledged any money. Once they announce beta, I’ll easily throw in 100 bucks. My only concern is is this game ever going to come out?
I am still very hopefull for this game and I appreciate that they are taking their time. I can tell as I am sure many of us can, that there still is quite a lot of work ahead. It looks pretty good and the climbing and the need to explore have me very interested. Expectations are high and I would like to see some major progress in the next 6 months to a year.
The perception system is really nice and it’s the kind of different I hope other games implement. I have thoughts of a high perception high intellect wizard exploring and learning lore in game
How do you stay hopefull?
At this point I'm sure a small team of computer science student with the trial edition of UE4 could do a better demo than this within a week or two....
@@vincenthamel3420 ya this game wont happen,the EQ mmo crowd is getting older by the year and losing interest in any gaming
Great video. Loved the presentation. My hope is that the alledged “client” you mentioned exists and that areas like Faerthale are near complete. Time will tell!
Thank you so much! Glad you enjoyed the video and the presentation.
Great video Red. Keep up the good work!
Thank you so much, Bountycode!
Woot!
Thought you'd enjoy this one, Draq
I am jealous!
It was fun having you. I look forward to the day I can rope you into hopeless raids more easily :P
It's okay that the cleric can't solo, a healer should have no issues finding a party in this game.
@redbeardflynn very balanced and thoughtful perspective in this video - greatly appreciated. I'm very optimistic about Visionary Realms (albeit cautionary). Not only do they have a very difficult job, but they are bombarded with naysayers. I really hope we can continue to show them our support. I've been following since the Kickstarter days and I have never really considered "giving up" on the devs or the game. I just hope they continue to feel the same way and keep moving onward and upward.
Pantheon throws off some strong Vanguard: Saga of Heroes vibe. I don't consider that a bad thing, as I actually enjoyed Vanguard even though I didn't play it nearly as much as EverQuest. Really looking forward to finally getting into the game. It's been quite the wait on this one. ;)
I’m also getting a dark age of Camelot vibe here. Pve-wise.
@dannywelch sadly I think the wait for this game has not even begun...take that however you want.
Much more Camelot than Vanguard, actually, in terms of combat model. Vanguard is far more modern than the OG trifecta; EQ, Camelot, FF11. More akin to later iterations like EQ2 or LotR (brain dead easy questing, low TTK high APM).
Good video brother, nicely worked. But deep down you, and everyone else knows this game isn't going to make it.
It's taking way too long and in 3 years' time when it finally stumbles into beta as some watered down version of what people pledged their money towards - no one but a tiny core of people will care about it anymore.
Other smaller groups/devs are making games to fill the MMO void this game is targeting and they are having faster progression than the snail pace this game progresses at. This means they are facing competition in the target audience who is moving on to games that probably most likely will deliver before Pantheon even gets into beta.
They recently announced an art/style direction change which basically wipes out the reason why some people pledged: after all those glam shots they were producing (the forest shots).
I mean where does the chopping and changing stop for this game. It's 7+ years into production and they are deciding now to restart the art direction of the game?
At this stage what they have produced looks and plays worse than EQ1
Love this video, Red! I love your thoughtful approach and comments, both with praise and very valid concerns. I hope you do another video soon, like later this month maybe 😉
Thank you! and yep, I have one planned for after Sept 21st.
Just from the few videos i've seen, it almost seems like the devs might've tried to make the world a bit too big.. i think scaling it back to a smaller sized zones/areas like in early EQ, would help them to narrow their focus.
I think ambition and scale are always going to be a hot topic when it comes to indie games. Finding the right balance.
EverQuest Online Adventures for PS2 was my favorite MMO, maybe even my favorite game of all time. I've been following this one for years and I really hope this game is successful.
Interesting that this was still the old art style. What do you think of the new look? Are you going to be able to get to play with the new art style soon?
I don't know if I'll get to play anytime soon but I'd be interested once they have the world converted to the new art style.
As far as the difference, I kind of went over it in the latest news update in a video but the tldr; I'm not sure if I like it more or less because my comparison is to the graphics you see in this video and for that I think I prefer it. It's more timeless and less dated. But compared to what *could* have been with some of the models we saw of updated models that we would be getting eventually. But if it gets the game to launch faster? I'm fine with it because I was never married to the graphic style of Pantheon as much as the Gameplay.
As someone that has also played in the pre-alpha, these are pretty much my thoughts. It played a lot better than you'd think looking at footage. The classes actually start getting a decent toolkit within the first 5 levels and no matter how basic it seems, from the classes I've played it flows really well and the resources give enough of a bucket to pool and delegate what to use when in a tactical sense, versus every other MMO requiring you to spam an optimal rotation and avoid clipping the GCD.
But man, I've always been worried about them actually having the workforce to get the game made. I would have said with recent progress that yes, they're definitely going to launch, but there always seems to be some kind of setback and it's hard to give that benefit of the doubt over and over. They've talked about something recently which can't be disclosed yet, and much like announcements in the past, it sounds like it'll help their production pipeline for moving the project along but it's hard to believe it at this point. I do hope they get a good goove and momentum going forward, but it feels like the inertia hasn't ever been in their favor.
I’ve been following this game for about 7 years or so. What I’ve learned: people have too high of expectations and not enough patience. So much negativity around how it looks or how far they’ve come. Most of the work they have put in-in the recent couple of years has made it to where they can add large amounts of the world much easier and making programming easier for the small team they have. Great things have come from garage projects and I refuse to let “the past” failures of games (especially in this genre) taint what Brad had conceived and what Chris and the team as well as the community have put into it. Looking forward to seeing some of you on Terminus and exploring this amazing game the team has poured their hearts and souls into.
People's expectations were high because VR set them high. A key pillar of successful product management is managing stakeholder expectations. VR kept moving the goal post. Especially before Brad died. He was perhaps overly optimistic about their ability to get this out the door sooner.
Yeah, software development isn't understood well at all by the general public, even now, even gamers.
I think 7 years is a lot of patience, most games take 4-5 years max to develop and release. :(
Great video man! I'm really excited to see more Pantheon and one big take away from your information was the climbing system. You can tell the devs were inspired by games like Breath of the Wild (I think I even saw a stamina bar next to the monk character) which is so nice to see. Systems like that add so much and more mmos should take note honestly
I'm so glad you enjoyed the video! And yeah I think the climbing was definitely inspired by Breath of the Wild.
The mention of FF14 combat is somewhat ominous to me. Early to mid level FF14 combat is fantastic. But at top level (I mained Dragoon), you basically had one rotation that you cycled endlessly while trying to dodge red circles. This rotation did not have room for decisions or options. It was quite specific and sequential with a relatively strict timing.
I really hope they don't go that way.
Pantheon will not be to late, nor will it be to early, it will arrive precisely when it means to.😁
Nice one.
"Must...have...the Precious!"
Another Redbeard, another banger! Well done bro!
You're too kind, Brightlife. Thank you!
As someone who avidly played EQ and has been following this game for years, the ONE thing that gets me about the combat is a lack of a reaction or movement by the mob. As you pointed out when you pulled a mob in EQ, you paid attention, you really need to heal right, taunt right etc. But I just wish mobs in this game had more reaction. When they parry it looks like a parry, when you dodge it looks like a dodge. They should make combat much more engaging and I wouldn't mind the grind at all. I just don't like the fact that it looks like you are playing whack a mole on a mob.
I have a paid copy of this game and if it ever comes out I may never even bother installing it. Game will be DOA. Pretty sure at this point. Crowfall 2.0.
Thanks a lot for the deep dive. I've been really wanting to get to know more about Pantheon and you've answered a bunch of the questions I've had, so thank you. I've had my eye on this one for a long time and this video makes me even more excited to finally hear a launch date.
in 5 more years I will get to play.... yay
good balance of critical, hopium, and copium. hoping for a bigger than usual update in september to alleviate some anxiety regarding dev pace.
looks awesome
I'm so excited for this game. I am an EQ player who has been in search for a similar game since the fall of EQ. (I know it's still around, but the population is low and everyone boxes) When I heard about this game years ago I was like no way, and to see it being in the pre alpha stage fills me with joy because it won't be long before it's released.
I like that group gathering addition, that's amazingly unique. I myself will be playing enchanter, because that's all I do.
Check out Monsters & Memories as well; it's very much an EQ clone.
Pantheon has been in development for over 10 years... and in pre-alpha for... 3?
You might die of old age before you see pantheon release.
Awesome! Biggest thing for me is that it's still the game we thought it would be.
Looking forward to getting into it. And, yes, it's gotta be a huge undertaking to self fund a mmo. More so, to do a quality one that requires careful planning and precise implementation.
I'm with you on the timeline. My biggest concern with the time to market is that it will feel dated by the time it is live. And then as you mentioned, will the market for it be gone by the time it comes out.
Great,looking forward to see more Pantheon content! Hope there is Wizards and Druids and no Hub place like PoK lol
Can't wait. Going to sleep so i don't have to wait.
On balance, overall I'd guess this project will end up being successful. It's basically a reimagining of EQ. People long for a hardcore classic experience like this, I'm pretty sure I'll play it.
I'm loving following this game, I just get really nervous about the graphics quality - it looks 10 years old. I'm sure there's a lot of placeholder graphics but things such as worldbuilding are generally not placeholders. The systems behind the game look very promising, I'm just hoping the rest of it can be brought up to the same quality before launch.
Would definitely recommend checking out this video as they made some substantial art changes they announced this month: ua-cam.com/video/hZtDRvmWJNo/v-deo.htmlsi=N3L_H01mKKQlD7cN
There are really people out there paying for THIS
IFYKYK
I think you did a great job on your review. It is nice to see that they invited streamers to get a peek at the current state of the game. However some of the things that you touched on that is monumental, is how much is needed still and how long it will take. The games graphics and skins of the characters is already outdated, and the big problem is,you have tons of mmos such as Eternal tombs, Ashes of creation, Quinfall and well Daybrake is now starting on creating EQ 3. this is been slated for a 2028 release date. i dont know if they will be able to complete if one of them other pull off a more stunning MMO.
All very valid. Competition is growing over the next few years which as a fan of mmos in general makes me happy to see but does also mean increased competition for pantheon. Their recent art style change i think could be them partially realizing this and wanting to speed things up.
Keep grinding Red
Definitely will!
I am so tired of games that have no loss, or lack the trinity/class roles. I've been hoping this game would succeed for years, but I still dont have much hope for it. If i need to wait for a final release, it's just gonna be too late at that point. I really think they should aim to get to the point where it is an open beta/alpha. I really hope they never have cross-server play, or anything that detracts from having a solid community. In addition, I hope they dont focus on any type of kill/collect/escort quest type leveling. I'm sooooo tired of games resorting to those to level or play the game.
Do you remember your first time zoning into PoF or PoH? Games these days have none of that.
Great video, Red!
Thank you so much, Grogoo!
I personally believe since Brad McQuaid death they have no idea what to do with the game. Instead of admitting that or defeat they keep saying it is going to come out. It has been 4 years since Brad died yet the game is still in pre alpha.
Been playing it for years. And to keep it at a high level, I feel its been going the wrong direction in recent years.
Are you on the right video?
@@HallyVee what do you mean? It’s a video about pantheon, which I’ve been playing for several years…
sounds like harvesting/crafting is similar/borrowing from Vanguard: SOH. team harvesting is in Vanguard. Someone helping you harvest was a way to increase your bounty from cutting down that tree, skinning that animal, mining, or from reaping those plants...
Being a solo player id like to see solo worked on and fleshed out more or have the ability to just use ai controlled mercs to build a group not ideal for a mmo, but itd be much prefered then a slow grind by ones self.
Owned by the bandits.
I think people need to look at the entire picture incuding the state of the world at the moment. Things are hard and this wonderul hardworking team have families as well. I know the average person doesnt think of thisor necessarily care, but lets be reaistic in our assessments. Flynn wonderful video and take brother.
I know it's still an alpha but my big problem is the graphics it doesn't look much different than EverQuest
Great video Red. My thoughts are on the same page; seems like the game I've been waiting for, happy to wait... but for how long? Im hopefully VR will show some meaningful new progress soon.
The only person I'll accept crafting video from is the first Pantheon crafter ever, Minus.
Crowfall did group-harvesting too which was fun. Sucks that game went defunct though. I've been hoping to see more Pantheon as this is at the top of my list for interests.
I like what they're going for here, i understand this is an alpha so I'm not gonna judge too hard, but one thing I hope they do, is animate the characters in a way that gives them weight, for me how the characters move and feel is very important, this is one of my biggest issues with ffxiv, how everyone feels paper thin. For someone who plays old school ffxi I have feeling pantheon will be right up my alley.
What are the minimal PC specs that can handle the game easily?
Climbing was actually one of the biggest wins for me personally, big reason I'll be going rogue as well. Love climbing in games.
Thanks for the video.
Just another 6 years guys.
They have to know if they release a game that looks and plays like this, they will spend the next decade fending off lawsuits from backers. As chronicles of Elyria showed, the best move a company with a non viable product can make is to always appear to be working on it. They had a really simple mission statement starting out, but now it looks like a student project. There is no mass market appeal and including things like “climbing” lol is not going to help their case with EverQuest players.
"fending off lawsuits from backers" 😂😂. Just stop. Such a ridiculous take. This would never happen.
They need to have a session that allows alpha subs to play to get some support back. I understand I’m alpha and this is pre alpha but I did not know if was going to be pre alpha n+1………n
I had to check the year of the video twice, looks like a game from the early 2000's.
the game is made to look this way on purpose.. its a throw back to mmo's from early 2000's
@@AbBc-w4q Fentanyl strength level of copium.
did you actually have to travel through dungeons or did you just camp a spot like eq?
Congrats my dude! My interest is piqued
I have been following this game since 2015 and was super keen due to having played EverQuest from 1999 to 2004 However I have now put this game into the kick starter scam category like Star Citizen. With no release date stated how long are people meant to follow the dangled carrot. Decades ?
Best oldstile MMO
Very nice video man, i enjoyed it a lot. I agree with pretty much everything you said, my own personal view is that the game looks -already- a bit dated and the longer it takes to launch, the worse that becomes. Now, i know, i play EQ and graphics and what not really mean nothing to me. But for newer generations of gamers, those things mean much more and i fear it would be quite the turn off for a big portion of potential players, if it takes too long for the game to drop and other newer alternatives are out there for the taking., which look better and are more smooth overall. Anyway, my 2cp. Thanks again :)
100% agree couldn't have said it better myself. The longer to release the more it will fall behind graphically and you know gamers love their 4k HDR Ray Tracing mumbo jumbo. So yeah it may capture EQ players but will that be enough to keep it going? And overhauling the graphics depends how scalable they built the game and from what I've learned its pretty "hard-coded" :(
It's over boys... it's over.
I truly hope it does come to fruition. It looks promising. I did pledge to it back in Kickstarter, forget about it for a while, then things pop up again.
I am also glad that they are not just rushing the game out to get it out. Most games that do that, fail pretty quickly, and had great potential.
Thanks for the honest opinion. I am remaining hopeful!
I'v been waiting Pantheon since 2015.... 2019,2020 i gave up on that and by the looks of it even if the game launches i dont think it will have longevity
When I see mmo like this in 2023 with a presentation like from 2001 game I have to say NO !!! fcking static combat, movement, UI etc...this is a HUGE step back
If this game was being created by a team that cares about it, then it would have been released a decade ago.
The devs took thousands of dollars from people to make this game, and are just taking their time with that money and likely working on other unrelated projects... it's literally impossible for a game of this quality (low quality graphics etc) to take over a decade to make.
I understand your point, but tormented development cycles aren't new to games, especially MMOs. Throne and Liberty from NCSoft is working on 12-13 years of development and was roundly criticized for being out of touch and basic in combat when they showed their closed beta earlier this year to the point where they have delayed it to make changes.
Being frustrated is one thing, but it's not that unusual or nefarious. As I said in the video, there are things that make me disappointed, specifically cadence.
Yeah I want to see a crafting vid. When I got into EQ in 05 as a Carpenter making the dowel, making the nail's, making the pad yeah it took a while, you needed say 5 of each wood to make 1 dowel say 5 stone to make a nail 5 leather or so to make a 1 pad and u need several....... they slimed it down at some point maybe LU 20? and really made it simple in 2008 or so. and don't get me started on an armorer when ingredients took twice as much and the forge killed you .....
After hearing about EverQuest 3 promotion for next year I really thought Visionary sold Pantheon to SoE, I'm glad they're still working on it, ever since the first preview of them showing the world map, then following from 2018 or 19 I've been hyped for this to be finished to knock out these so called modern MMOs sorry WoW fans, EQ will always be the throne game. The way this has turned out it will swap out EQ 's seat and replace with Pantheon and McQuaid will be smiling down on blizzard and SoE. Watching the stream on the creators raid was fantastic. Hopefully 2024 or 25 will be the year of challenge 's. With Pantheon presentation every where.😊🎉😅
I've been following this game's progression for like the last 8 years when I first heard about it from a pal on Project 1999 (Everquest Private server). All I can say is, holy $%#& it's come such a long way!!
My only question to all your viewers is this: HOW do I convince my conservative, thrifty wife to allow me to spend money on this game?!?!?!
I have been clean and sober from EverQuest 19 years 5 months, and have hardly touched any MMOs since then.
Pantheon is the game I want to play.
I've waited this long. I can wait longer.
It's not as if the world doesn't have all kinds of other things to do for fun.
Here's hoping for Alpha 2025, or maybe a bit sooner.
But you're right.
There's a LOT more work to be down on the Road to Alpha.
The group gathering reminds me of Vanguard, actually a lot of this game reminds me of Vanguard.
In development for 10 years, still not out and probably never will be, everquest next clone
that zelda climbing system
Why this symbol for the ability 3? Why?
AoC is getting into Alpha 2 next year. Given that you target the same audiance you better get your act together.
I think ashes is targeting a bit of a different audience largely due to pvp and the node system as well as toggleable action or tab target combat. I could see both mmos existing within their own market with substantial crossover but even if their are similarities ffxiv and wow existing together and both seeing success is a best case scenario where they don't necessarily cannibalize each other.
Pantheon has blackpilled me some what, I got a chance to see the new cartoon style graphics and for me at least I am just Bleh. I am worried that they are now rushing to get this out and will cut corners. Hopefully the game is suppose to be what it is, maybe by 2030 they will have everything in it ;)
I gave up on Pantheon a long time ago.
I'll be dead before i ever get a chance to play pantheon lol
You rarely talk about meaningfull CC witch was a big part of EQ early day and to a extend in early WOW, but is complety inexistant in latest MMO. That used to make grouping and have role to get diff CC very important and make combat ever more strategic. How CC fir in this new MMO looking very like EQ ?
I didn't get to group with an Enchanter (the CC class) so I didn't really get to experience how good it is but the part with the bandits shows how quickly things can go sour if you're not careful. I imagine an enchanter in that situation...ok no I Really messed up with that pull, but a less terrible pull maybe they could have salvaged it with CC.
@@Redbeardflynn with a chanter, a rogue and ... Yeah no that pull was doomed.
@@Tyanu_Khah 😅