The Rings of Power - War For A Fandom
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- Опубліковано 28 вер 2024
- Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power on Amazon has caused a fair bit of controversy since it was announced, and the first trailer isn't even out yet. Join me as I break down the reasons behind the fan backlash and the reactions to it.
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Watch 1883 Drinker best show out there right now
I doubt BAME's & what not will even watch this newest post millennia refuse!
What pity, oh well never mind;)
Wonder what next classic is going to be dragged through the mud next by the alphabet people?
Love your videos, very insightful. I support channels I like by likening every comment available to be read while I’m there watching your video. Not sure how that helps but I can only assume the more 👍🏻 a channel gets the more the algorithm will suggest the video to others.
Diversity for Diversity's Sake is it's own kind of Racist.
Subversion and power tripping by next gen useful idiot spoiled brats.
I started reading LOTR when I was a child, it’s been some 20 years since. I am Mexican so needless to say, I am not white, but never, not even once I thought, “why aren’t there any brown skinned elves?” In a world where there are dwarves, elves, tree people, orcs, huge impossible towers, and magic I think it takes a sick mind to see the halls of Khazad-dûm, and think “hey, why aren’t any of these dwarves black?”
The world Tolkien created more than 80 years ago has endured the current of time like no other, it was influential like no other and it is close to so many peoples’ hearts that it’s no wonder everyone is taking it so seriously. We as fans of Tolkiens work, had this niche away from The Message that stood strong like the White Tower of Echtelion from the forces of Mordor, but unlike in that story, in our story nothing can escape the darkness
Your very much correct, not just a sick mind though, evil ones also.
equally though, why is it such a big deal when they do introduce non-white people.
@@blahbleh5671 Because it's prehistoric Europe, not modern day Detroit
I dont get why there is such a need to get X skin color, as a south american I never felt offended Hollywoods characters, even when movies and series get diverse I'm still left out and i dont care, some people still believe that latino means mexican, or colombian (or whatever country is hot at the moment)
@@blahbleh5671 because its based on white europeon folklore, thats why
“It felt only natural to us that an adaptation of Tolkien’s work would reflect what the world actually looks like.”
- Lindsey Weber, E.P. Amazon's LOTR Series, Vanity Fair (Feb. 2022)
"There are certainly themes Tolkien felt were important. We made a promise to ourselves at the beginning of the process that we weren't going to put any of our own politics, our own messages or our own themes into these movies. What we were trying to do was to analyse what was important to Tolkien and to try to honour that. In a way, were trying to make these films for him, not for ourselves."
- Peter Jackson, Interview with GreenCine (Dec. 2002)
Amazing!
Media needs to reflect the permanently changing face of our society and culture. As wh*tes step away from any sort of cultural prevalence/relevance, it makes sense that the casting of our media changes to reflect. It isn’t going to change. So just shut up and accept it.
@@Sajuek
Hey Citizen, with all due respect to "Diversity, Inclusiveness and Equality", adapting the source material to it's fullest should always come first. And if that means that anyone who isn't white won't be cast so tough luck.
So yeah, YOU shut up.
@@Sajuek Go sit on a traffic cone and rethink your racially motivated, toxic counter-culture.
@@yair1010 That person is trolling, I wouldn’t waste my time with them
This show lost the minute the official Twitter account started implying fans were very very bad people if they didn’t like their show.
That tactic never ever works.
It lost me when they stated they wanted and thought it to be the next Game of Thrones, and next thing I know there's a damn intimacy coach and it was enough for me to go, okay i won't watch it, will stick with reading all the books again.
You mean it lost the moment it started to diversify
@@rilldineth Same. I knew it was a trainwreck in progress when Lord Bezos said the "next Game of Thrones" thing. Although I'll probably end up watching the show anyway, because I'm a fool for Tolkien content... or Tolkien-adjacent content, in this case.
Yeah, that type of banter by the creators is sort of a losers argument.
They're screwed and they know it. Netflix's stock has been tanking lately... and I think the company realizes it's fucked... and now this... and they realize it's even more fucked.
Glad I don't have NetFlix.
They can suck my balls.
As a Japanese Tolkien fan, I 100％ agree with you.
Tolkien wrote the Middle-earth tale for white, the people who has same racal identity with him, so we should respect it.
The culture of white must be respected just as same as the culture of black,asia,and any other races.
I commented in Official Japanese trailer like this（originally in Japanese, of course）;
"How do you feel if 『古事記』（"Kojiki"−a Japanese Founding myth）is going to be a drama but some Gods and Goddess will be acted by white and black?
Or,how do you feel if 『源氏物語』（"Genjimonogatari"-a love story set in Japanese inperial court, written in 1000 years ago） is going to be a drama but some hime（princess） will be acted by white and black?
I don't think it is diversity.
It is disrespect."
―and my comment has become muted.
So sad.
Thanks for your comment(s).
How does Japan react to this in general?
@@redditstories2750 In Japan there are pros and cons, just same as other countries.
Thanks lol.
Are you a Tolkien fan? Or a Jackson fan pretending to be a Tolkien fan?
@@reek4062 I have been a Tolkien fan for nearly 30 years. The Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit have long been staples in Japanese school libraries, and that's where I first encountered Tolkien's books.
I think you should've pointed out the same casting problem in the Witcher: the show had minorities cast as people based on European cultures in a story written by a Pole in Polish.
Yeah that pulled me out of the Witcher.
And barely any Polish people were actually hired for Netflix Witcher. That’s as insulting as making a story about some Native American tribe and refusing to hire any actual indigenous people. Does Netflix have prejudice against Polish people or something?
Apparently nobody would ever want to even watch an African story regardless of who was in it, so they have to shoehorn Africans into strictly European stories.
@@TrueMentorGuidingMoonlight There were two Polish actors hired and not a single one appeared in more than one episode.
@@TrueMentorGuidingMoonlight Of course not, Poles are white so Netflix doesnt care about them.
As someone with dark skin I’m sick of the forced inclusion. This whole diversity push has done nothing but produce bad products. True diversity can only be attained through original ideas. You think as a kid I was bummed out that John Mclane was a white guy. Regardless of his skin tone I still strived to be the guy that did right thing even if I didn’t have too. We didn’t think in those terms back then. Also we have had diversity in movies for a long time now, and honestly it was done better when it wasn’t forced. We need to lay off the diversity and get back to making good movies. 10-20 years ago we had both diversity and good movies, you can’t even make a list there are so many….Let’s just go back to that pleez.
These people literally can't think past it. And I am using "literally" literally. If the main character isn't their race, gender, sexual orientation, and so on, they are incapable of empathizing with them and feeling any kind of connection. Like getting punched in the face is a different sensation based on melanin.
Don't you find it patronizing? While us whitey's are rolling our eyes at the stuff....I can't help but think that it belittles people of other races/sexualities to the point of condescension.
Whenever a 'man of the chalk' inserts or pours false praise on a POC I can't help but think of a man praising his pet.
This stuff is so dangerous
When I was 8 I wanted so badly to be Harrison Ford. I don't mean I wanted to be a man, I mean I wanted to be that cool.
I completely understand what you mean about the current inability to relate to characters that don't look like you. I could put myself in the shoes of Indiana Jones and Han Solo, I'm not sure kids can do that anymore.
This is a great point. The people making these shows and the people supporting them think that the audience can only relate to a character if they look like them, which is incredibly racist in itself. I'm as pale as it gets and I grew up thinking guys like Samuel L Jackson, Denzel, Jackie Chan and Jet Li were cool as hell and I wanted to be able to be able to be tough like them or fight like them. We saw these guys in movies just as much as we saw Bruce Willis or Arnie and no one made a fuss about it.
@@BWMagus lol actually yeah! Literally is the proper term here
Christopher Tolkien died in January of 2020. The Rings of power started production in February of 2020. Considering Amazon bought the rights to lotr and hobbit in 2017, it's pretty obvious Christopher was preventing a lot of their crap ideas from going through. The second he died they had free reigns and now they have the audacity to release this show on the day J.R.R. Tolkien died. Fucking pathetic corporate greed.
Agree with this 100%.
let's just boycott them.
Christopher was a known advocate of his father's work. He did NOT allow anyone and everyone to use LOTR/Hobbit. Which is why up until this series, the LOTR content we've gotten, movies and video games, have all been at the very least good, and in some cases incredible.
This show spits in everyone's face.
@@waketp420 I would posit the Shadow of Mordor WB video games were not good, at least in the sense of reflecting Tolkien's themes (they were fine action games). And notoriously the second one gave Shelob a sexy human female form because why not make a canonically eldritch monster sexy. Oh, also Celebrimbor, who was canonically selfless and kind, is now cruel and all about ends justifying means. It's just super bizarre how non-Tolkien these ostensibly LotR games feel.
Somehow they got made in 2014/2017!
@@danielmaxson4287 Lego Lord of the Rings was a good game
As a non "white" person. The thing I hate most is forced diversity. It helps....no...one. Your arguments are sound Mr. Drinker. I'd buy you a pint.
They come in pints?
Exactly. It is the direct definition of being a Token xxxxx. They're using "representation" to try and make money from a group of people who in the majority didn't read the books. As a non- North of the Caucus Mountains.. I NEVER flipped through pages in the 80s thinking "NOW WAIT A DAMNED MINUTE! Where's the caramel honeys at?" And slam the book shut. Never watched the Hobbit movie as kid.. thinking "where are the Redbone, Arab people?" And turn on PBS to get me a fix down on Sesame Street instead.
@@汉堡哥 MMmm..-Drinking a pint already.-
"We're Amazon, and we'd rather spend a billion dollars bringing you bastardized versions of the most beloved fantasy series in the modern era than give our employees a toilet to sit on."
Literally true!
Very true! They send out press releases saying they had no idea that their drivers were pissing into bottles due to not being able to take breaks, while two months before they'd secretly issued memos to the same drivers telling them to stop pissing in bottles and messing up the trucks.
😂😂😂😂😂
I mean, priorities right. 😁
Sitting on a toilet leads to less productivity. But need not worry. They're stockholders vote for the party of the people so it's just.
The Lord of the Rings family has lost one of its beloved members. A few days ago Richard Mathews passed away. He was 3rd AD for the original films and I worked with him for four years. We affectionately called him 'Richard The 3rd' and his primary role was to direct the hordes of extras on set.
I was very proud to serve in Richard The 3rds army. We all loved him like a brother and I know that many an orc, uruk, Gondorian, hobbit, elf, Dunlending, Easterling and Rohirim will be having a quiet ale and sharing tales of his exploits.
"So wise so young, they say do never live long."
Richard III; Act 3, scene 1
Please tell me that the fable is true. That they ran out of tall guys in New Zealand for the Uruk Hais and had to bring in regular sized dudes. They made smaller armor for them and called them the "Uruk Lows". Because that story never gets old. :-)
@@lonnieeastin6401 I’m tall but I’m black but it’s like lemme play an Uruk just put makeup on my face or some shit idk
@@047Kenny With that kind of handle, I'm sure you are. :-) Actually, I think most of the Uruk Hais were tall black dudes. I'm just a little over 5 feet and white. So, I would definitely be a Uruk Low. BTW. Uruk Hai... I love that for you! Next Halloween, rock it out. Or go to work as a Uruk. Nobody will say anything.
@@lonnieeastin6401 I can tell you that the race of the extra played no part in being an uruk. We wore helmets with foam face pieces and our eyes where ringed with dark make up if we had light skin.
@@carlmanvers5009 Wow! I am glad that I know that now. Those movies are my favorite of all time! Also, I didn't think New Zealand had that many black dudes. So, that makes sense. I'm pretty sure the first Uruk (that killed Boromir) was a black guy. Or really good makeup... Which can be said about the entire trilogy. Best makeup _ever_. Won't be matched. I can't think of a movie that can step to it. Just my humble opinion. I am glad that I heard from someone in the know. Thank you, Carl Manvers.
One of the most interesting aspects of the LOTR movies was the distinctions in cultures. Elves, Humans, Dwarves and even hobbits all had a different look to them. Having Galadriel with braided hair and Elrond with short hair doesn’t help with that continuity. Their hair is the biggest indicator into knowing who is an elf and human. If it wasn’t labeled who this character was, I would think she was just a human in armor.
Yep, also why on gods earth does that "dwarf" not have a beard. Whats next dwarven sobriety.
I didn't see the label and literally thought she was a human... 😅😂
@@lordjj2549 If they introduced female dwarves but with a five o clock shadow, I wouldn’t mind as much. As long as it’s consistent. Nothing is consistent in these pictures, which is so irritating.
@@KerrxLaeda hahahah
they are fictional characters, who cares
"We had no interest in putting our messages into this movie. But we thought we should honor Tolkien by putting his messages into it. "
- Peter Jackson, Interview with Charlie Rose (2002)
Hot damn
Ummmmmmmmm excuseeee meeee sweaty, but Peter Jackson is a WHITE MALE?!?! Educate yourself. Do better please. If the Hobbits dont look like a UN panel, then the show is explicitly racist as all white people are racist.
I don't understand why people force diversity? No wonder the shows here now sucks your souls.
Edit: Grammar
Peter Jackson should have our eternal gratitude. Not only did he create a timeless masterpiece that respected the original vision of a long celebrated author, but he also bent the knee to lead a corporate-driven "sequel" trilogy in terrible conditions just so the production wouldn't be pulled from New Zealand, resulting in thousands of jobs saved. We don't deserve him.
@@martymcfly88mph35 Jesus, I could actually hear the blue haired Peter Griffin screeching that as I read it
When she says “Tolkien’s work would reflect what the world actually looks like” she’s completely lost the plot. Tolkien created Middle earth to revitalise the value of England having it’s own mythology, lots of things in his writings where inspired by Anglo Saxon, Celtic and Nordic folklore which would explain the lack of diversity. I’ve been a fan of his works since the age of eight, the lack of diversity in the movies never bothered me or even crossed my mind being a mix race person. Personally there’s nothing about the marketing getting me excited for this series in general, the Jackson trilogy is perfect and can’t ever be topped. ~Bobby Berro
How do you know it isn’t set in arda
@@michaelfaber9587 it is set in arda.
There is plenty of diversity between different races of Europeans. Stop white washing everyone with light skin to be the same race. My family is all Slavic and we are very different from Anglo-Saxon British or Germans
Tolkien's work would reflect blah blah blah... I am just thinking "No shit Sherlock."
Beautifully said.
The diversity thing is honestly really hard for me to understand. I would never want to see a movie based on African myth get a bunch of white actors pigeon-holed into the cast.
It's easy to understand, you just have to look at it from a racist, anti-white angle.
It doesn't add up because the issue is not diversity, it's whiteness.
And you wouldn't see anything like that, because "diversity" in practice really only means leeching off or shitting on what white people have already created.
Luckily Africa is being taken over by the Chinese, so in a few decades white actors portraying Africans won't be so stark in differences.
"Diversity" is purely a nice way of saying "less white people". That's it's de facto definition. And that's not really debatable. lol
"THE MESSAGE!"
This will never get old. I will probably look back when I will be old af, and whenever I will hear the legendary drinker say "The message!" I will do my own Jameson laugh with some nostalgia.
@fax Go away you disgusting spam bot
I got this sound as my SMS ring tone (Yes still use SMS instead of Whatsapp or "facebook") just because it is hilarious to hear
The fact that these nimrods didn't delve into the Easterlings (Swarthy Men) and the Haradrim (Southrons) tells me they only watched the movies and never read the books including the Silmarillion. So much content, a lot of it open to interpretation, left unexplored by what I can only assume to be a combination of ineptitude and laziness.
hear hear! Easterling wars would be a fine addition to the film/TV canon just as they were in novel form, and you get more races of men for that sweet sweet *diversity*
Ah yes, but npcs don't create or think, they just follow orders from on high.
They never read the books. Pure laziness...
I would be surprised if those children could even read at all
The fact they make Tolkiens work more like GoT is also insulting. The writers fail to understand that the setting they are working with is a point where man qas prosperous. How does that tone work if it's suppse to be like GoT?
Drinker these are dark times, we need people like you to express our frustrations with modernity. Keep it up mate
Most of the problem with modernity is caused by losers who whine about modernity
Can everyone just chill out. The first full trailer hasn't even come out yet. OK so it might not be reverential to Tolkien. But it might be an awesome show. The hate for this show before it's even come out is feeling a little cult-like.
@@Timothy27778 they have to attack it because woman
@@Timothy27778 did you even watched the video?
Why do you use "dark" in a negative way?
An Asian here who first read LoTR when I was 8: funny that I never even took notice of any racial element in the novel or even the films.
What I enjoyed about fantasy in general is the escapism the genre provides rather than whether “my” type of people are represented.
To me and many non-Europeans the setting of LoTR is enthralling cuz it’s exotic and essentially different from the environment in which we live our daily life.
As of the races such as the Easterlings and Haradrims that were portrayed as the antagonists - isn’t it just our natural tendency to associate more negative elements to nations that we are not familiar with? Not to mention the actual history in which events such as the mongol invasion actually brought untold amount of suffering to Europe and many other regions, which would undoubtedly inspire generations of writers.
As an Asian I absolutely agree. I don’t want the characters and their genealogy changed because they have to tick their diversity box. It absolutely crushes the world building.
Your comment needs more likes.
as an asian I agree also.. I watched LOTR when I was young and freaking loved it, my grandma introduced it to me. when around last 2 years ago I read a bit of the silmarillion (trying to read it back because the book have me nosebleed with it's story and writing) I enjoyed quite a lot, read different stories, lore and languages of it.. I was intruiged by tolkiens work and how he manage to make this fine piece. I respected his works, admired it and even imagining to the point that I have my own.. what they're doing here is pure sadness
The easterlings and haradrim are not evil they have simply become slaves of Sauron. After Sauron is destroyed Aragorn leads a military campaign and makes peace with them. The only race that is explicitly innately evil in LOTR are the orcs. The easterlings and haradrim are simply oppressed and dominated by Sauron to fight for him, that doesn't make them evil by itself.
These are Sam´s thoughts after witnessing a battle between men from Gondor and Easterlings:
"It was Sam's first view of a battle of Men against Men, and he did not like it much. He was glad that he could not see the dead face. He wondered what the (Easterling) man's name was and where he came from; and if he was really evil of heart, or what lies or threats had led him on the long march from his home; and if he would rather have stayed there in peace."
I'm black and I agree with you on this. Not even a Tolken fan. Just in general. If a movie or show takes place in an ethnically one sided place like England or Africa then that's what actors they should seek out. Respect...-D.
It’s crazy how common sense has just gone out the window...
yep I agree, if it's an ethnically one sided place then it should stay like that. Movies like ghost in the shell, mortal kombat, death note all replaced important Asian characters which takes you out of the zone for it. Why can't things just stay true to the original material.
Thats what I always say to these morons, it would be preety stupid to set a movie in 1300s horn of Africa and not have exclusivley black characters play eg. Ethiopians (I think that they called themselfes Abbysinians then?), or in 500 b.c. China and not have exclusivley Asian actors
@@Badjazy thankfully all this crap bombs so theyll have to realize eventually that theyre doing something wrong or lose even more money
Imagine Tolkien's son, who hated the Peter Jackson films, seeing what his fathers work is being turned into.
Yes - Christopher's death is what hurts most
Imagine his reaction to the Hobbit movies. I'm sure his death triggered a bunch of changes within the Amazon creative group, probably the diverse casting was one of those changes
@@normis6620 *gender fluid Hobbits on puberty blockers or spells that result in exactly the same result...yeah, that's what Tolkien had in mind all along*
Considering for how much he sold LOTR I would imagine it wouldn't be the biggest nerve attack in his life
Why did he hate the Peter Jackson films?
I'm an Asian and I love LOTR. I first watched it at the age of 8 when my uncle bought it for me and my cousins (extended version of course). Immediately I fell in love with the shire and its folk.
Never have I looked at it in a manor that it offends me that "my people" aren't represented in Middle-Earth mythology. And I never want it to.
What J. R. R. Tolkien and Christopher Tolkien have created is a COMPLETED masterpiece that does not need changing to "fit in" modern times.
I'm white and I never watched Lord of the rings thinking: "wow I look just like a hobbit and an elf! I feel so represented and connected to this content!"
Woah woah woah Jack Sparrow wasnt asian in the movies
People don't need to see people of the same skin colour as them in a film or a series to enjoy it. For instance, I'm not represented in "The Seven Samurai" because I'm not Japanese, nor am I represented in "Hotel Rwanda" because I'm not Rwandan. Yet, I can appreciate these films because they appeal to our common humanity. This is what makes us human, and it's incredibly sad that we're offered utter drivel and told to enjoy it because it fulfills some modern ideal.
Truth is, those who only see colour are the actual racists but they are too stupid to understand it
Well there's no Black People in Ross-shire (the old Heart and Blood of the Highlands) and I demand African Refugees there, Infact it's Racist it's even called Ross... Rossist in fact! I demand the War Masters and Chiefs the Earls of Ross were Black! Or I'm Racist!
Absolutely! They should just create their own world, instead of destroying Tolkiens world 😒
I've never lived anywhere but Mexico. To be honest back when I was a kid and first saw LOTR not once, not even for an instant did I ask myself why there were no people with my skin color. I just assumed it took place in medieval England. Now that I'm older I feel very frustrated that Hollywood keeps implying that they know how to fix some nonexistent grievance I have against "white" people.
I love hearing hearing the pov of people who are poc or from different countries and agree with Tolkien fans about this because I honestly think it's offensive for everyone to blatantly shoehorn all people into an existing lore when no one asked for it and it doesn't make sense to that fantasy world
Don't forget that the same kind of people are even trying to """fix""" your language as a "latinx"... :P
@@ano_nym oh my gosh, my MIL is a Latina and I asked her what she thought of being called a Latinx. She was horribly offended. She had not heard it before.
I'm Hispanic myself and had no problem relating to certain character, no matter the race or skin color. Hollywood is dying.
@@ano_nym Oh God... you reminded me about Filipinx
Those activist are the reason every fandom should gatekeet as hard as they can
We're definitely headed for another "Drinker's how to ruin a franchise in 5 steps"
- Get a popular IP
- Change it for "the better".
- Criticize the fan base
- F**k it up
- Get cancelled
We've only seen images, not even a trailer, but are already in solid 1 and 2 territory.
First teaser just dropped during the super bowl.
In #4 already
3 is happening already, just that it is behind closed doors for now. Once things hit a crescendo it be released publicly. Someone is going to cry; they always do.
Theyre doing the 5 step speedrun at this point lmfao
3 and 4 are inevitable. They are batshit crazy at this point.
Calling the fans racist 'ists' and 'phobes' has been the go to excuse for every bad TV show and movie,
this is no surprise the media love to antagonize the fans voicing valid criticism for a established fantasy series!
Si, pero mucha gente ya critica la serie y lo llaman la peor basura cuando aún ni sale
Just dont watch any LotR stuff amazon makes. I quite liked how things where before they showed up and thats how it will stay if we will it in to existance.
Seen this comment a million times, copied and pasted.
There were black characters in Tolkien universe, he expressly stated so.
There were "Dark skinned" rohirim, hobbits, dwarves and elves, and anyone who has read the books cover to cover would know this.
People upset about casting people of colour in the franchise are hiding their thinly veiled racism very poorly.
@@cuttingclass7667 lying and dishonesty.
Being "swarthy" doesn't mean they are non-white.
@@cuttingclass7667 "There were black characters in Tolkien universe, he expressly stated so." Ofcourse. They where in the south.
"There were "Dark skinned" rohirim, hobbits, dwarves and elves" Absolutely not .
"and anyone who has read the books cover to cover would know this." I have read the books cover to cover and know it to be false.
"People upset about casting people of colour in the franchise are hiding their thinly veiled racism very poorly." Agreed, your hatered of europians is showing quite clearly, liar.
“Evil cannot create anything new, they can only corrupt and ruin what good forces have invented or made.” - JRR Tolkien
Brilliant!
“The wise speak only of what they know” ― J.R.R. Tolkien
Most pertinent comment here.
That is a scarily accurate description of the "inclusivе" movie garbage from last years...
And they want the Flame Imperishable really badly.
A film representing a foreign culture, your a saint for wanting kept accurate. A film representing Anglo-Saxon / British culture, your racist for wanting that kept accurate…
Norse mythology stories- played by Africans and Asians!
Because entire world is actually cultural cesspool like USA
No Frosti, if they want a representation, how about creating their own universe? Let's see about it. Oh wait, they have done it named Black Panther of Wakanda. Those woke POC's biggest masturbation turned out the most racist, xenophobic and isolating country ever.
*They want to replace White Culture from the face of the earth, either by doing it with mass illegal migration into European countries, either by Anti-White propaganda in entertainment industry.*
*The result they want to succeed is the same.*
I recall some criticism (although it was hardly the biggest criticism) of The Last Airbender for casting white actors into a work with an Asian setting.
I was screaming "EXACTLY" into the air about every 5 seconds while watching this, my neighbours are probably concerned lol. You summarised the entire thing perfectly, and more. Thank god for you and this vid.
5:57
Jackson disrespected the lore.
I am a born and raised Black African man. I grew up on the LOTR films and my greatest achievement as a kid was reading Lord Of The Rings cover to cover in record time (a month and a half!) at age 14 and I NEVER, for ONE second gave a rats ass that none of the characters were black. A good story is a good story, period!
Well said.
I hope they pick you
YES!
Galadriel was absolutely a “warrior,” Tolkien wrote extensively in his later years about Galadriel’s personality before the third age. In the second age Galadriel was very different than she was in the third age. But most of the people complaining have never researched or read about this so…
Tolkien wrote to Mrs. Catharine Findlay that the name Galadriel means "Maiden crowned with gleaming hair" in Sindarin, and that it was her secondary name. In her youth, she was of AMAZON disposition, and bound up her hair as a crown when taking part in athletic feats.
The more you know…
Hear hear. The stories are for anyone to enjoy and immerse themselves in. I don’t have to be an Italian plumber to enjoy playing Mario. Or be Korean to emphasise with the people in the film Parasite.
What makes me mad is not that this show is being created, but the fact that because this show has, we will never get a proper LOTR's show.
I dunno... Ghostbusters 2016 didn't prevent Ghostbusters Afterlife from being made..
We all say this coming after the woke disaster the Wheel of Time tv show was.
@@Hiraghm You cannot compare the two. While Ghostbusters had and still have a fan base, it is no where near the cultural phenomenon that LotR was and is. So it is not hard to make a film that would simply ignore the previous flop. It was just a fun premise that spawned a few films - it is not as if it has a deep lore going for thousands of years, the whole universe built around it.
That is why prognosis for new Game of Thrones shows are not very promising - when you screw up something that big, backlash will be great.
That is why Star Wars had to cancel several films and trilogies after that disaster of a reboot - and switched to a lower profile series with some new and less known characters... which they are again ruining.
Franchises that are simply too big like that, going on for decades (or, in case of LotR almost a century) don't act in the same way as your smaller franchises.
They will keep earning money due to their size, you can hardly kill them forever, but you can destroy them to the point where new creations in the universe become less likely to happen.
The Rings of Power is, as advertised, one of the most expensive if not the most expensive series ever created. If it flops, as it will, it does not mean that you won't get a new one, but it does mean that you'll never get that much money in one place to pay for production of that size again. That is why people are sad.
Woke shit like this destroys the enthusiasm of the base audience, so you end up making money on the people who don't really care and are here this moment and the next they move on. And when you don't have an enthusiastic fan base that you can count on to remain with the franchise and consume, investors are not really in the mood of gambling a billion dollars again.
100 million? Probably. But that won't buy you a high end production of LotR series.
So yeah, it does not mean that another LotR series or film won't happen - it just means that you will not get such serious money behind it again, so you won't be able to do those epic stories, hire good actors, have good effects etc.
There’s still a chance, the new Star Wars was trash but the Mandalorian was still made in spite of the new trilogy. Hopefully the same can be said for LOTR, but Amazon isn’t Disney so nothing is certain. What is certain however, is that I personally will not watch this new LOTR show.
@@jeaneratte6774 the mandalorian is dogshit though
As a wise man once said, "Ah shit, here we go again."
You got 3 porn bot in a row...must be a record
"Evil is not capable of creating anything new, it can only distort and destroy what has been invented or made by the forces of good" - J.R.R. Tolkien
Good quote. Sums up present day Hollywood.
That's not a quote. The actual quote is "The shadow that bred them can only mock, it cannot make: not real things of its own. I don't think it gave life to the orcs, it only ruined them and twisted them; and if they are to live at all, they have to live like other living creatures" Frodo, The Return of the king - The Tower of Cirith Ungol, J.R.R. Tolkien. You're quoting a tv tropes page talking about Tolkien. Can people please stop copy pasting this quote, it's getting annoying.
@@mrauntheias4480 "I'm quite alright with Brimstone410 and anyone else on the socials paraphrasing my words to deliver the quintessence more succinctly as this will better lead to the promulgation of the message" - J.R.R. Tolkein
@@chesneytube1 hahahaah underrated comment.
Ironic when you've actually bastardised what Tolkien said...
I feel like every single step of this was predetermined. The wokeness, trying to hide it for as long as possible, the understandable anger of the fans who by no way were surprised and the articles calling said fans racists etc.
Next steps will be that the show is not overly well written so viewership will quickly drop and then it will finally be cancelled which will be blamed on the toxic fans.
And all of this has been obvious for over a year now :-/
WHEN WILL THEY LEARN?
They are creating a billion-dollar show to make you racists look bad? Oh, okay.
@@blueguy1995 The fact that you assume anyone who voices criticism is racist? Shows that you are the true racist and worse, you are a sheep. You assume, the worse because than you don’t have to listen to logic. I’m black and hate everything about this. Black myths and stores exist(many other races as well), they cold produce those. But they won’t.
@@blueguy1995 troll.
I'm Asian. I love Tolkien. If they were to take a Japanese mythic epic from say, the Nihon Shoki and cast it as a movie with caucasian and black actors I'd probably be annoyed. I also don't need to see Japanese longbeard dwarves in order to enjoy a Silmarilion adaptation, thank you very much.
As a white european I loved asian movies and culture whole my life especially martial art stuff. When I was watching a movie with all asian cast I never felt I need my ethnicity representation to identify with characters. I also never liked movies when for example main samurai, ninja role was played by white actor, it's just fake for me.
In agreeance with your comment, I also felt really annoyed when they cast Jake Gyllenhaal in Prince Of Persia. WHY the hell is a white guy the main character? Do we need white Black Panther? Should The Mandarin be a Native American? Should Raiden be a cuban woman? Like the other guy said, no one watches a Bruce Lee movie and thinks "If only he were a white guy I could enjoy his whupping ass." Connor McCleod is not an asian. Storm, Bishop, Luke Cage, they're black characters, and gender or race swapping fundamentally changes who they are. It's no more Racist to say "Wonder Woman is not hispanic." than it is to say "James Bond is a borderline alcoholic white british womanizer and should not be a black woman." And I am not going to even get into the irritating trend of making every character gay now.
"Just Some Guy", another youtuber has some really brilliant insights into this topic, you should check out his channel.
The hilarious part is they don’t even have the right to The Silmarilion.
its funny how these shows pander to avoid the angry mob on twitter, and just end up being hated by everyone bc of how cringe they are.
Most normal people are not race obsessed weirdos and can easily relate to members of another race without having to see members of their own race in it. I remember watching tons of kung fu movies as a kid and never once feeling that I needed to be represented by having a Caucasian on the screen. As far as I am concerned they are based in Asian folklore and it would be really weird if a bunch of them weren't Asian for no real reason.
Bro the bit where you said introduce other factions (like the Haradrim) and explore their relations towards Gondor, that was brilliant. That makes a great show right there.
"The Shadow that bred them can only mock, it cannot make: not real new things of its own" - J. R. R. Tolkien
*They want to replace White Culture from the face of the earth, either by doing it with mass illegal migration into European countries, either by Anti-White propaganda in entertainment industry.*
*The result they want to succeed is the same.*
“It felt only natural to us that an adaptation of Tolkien’s work would reflect what the world actually looks like.”
- Lindsey Weber, E.P. Amazon's LOTR Series, Vanity Fair (Feb. 2022)
I guess she forgot the show's about Middle Earth, not Earth
When I saw that Amazon spokesperson apparently suggesting that Tolkien's world is automatically inferior, unless it reflects the real world more, I immediately thought of this bar...
🎶 But news flash! The genre’s called Fantasy! It’s meant to be unrealistic, you myopic manatee! 🎶
*- Tolkien in Epic Rap Battles of History*
*Edit:* To expand upon the points that Larion233 raised, I believe we should always distinguish between "realism" and "internal consistency". By its very nature, a work of Fantasy is allowed to have whatever rules the author wants, but it still has to establish what those fictional rules are and stick with them logically. In a different context, where someone has criticized specific writing choices that yield inconsistencies in the characters/world/action, merely stating that Fantasy is unrealistic becomes an invalid counterargument. In that regard, I completely agree with Larion233.
@@markcobuzzi826 Not really you myopic manatee! Tolkien's work was already established long before you squat out of your mom's womb. That argument ain't going to work!
@@markcobuzzi826 I love (/s) that dumbass argument people bring up, "It's fantasy, that means literally f***ing anything can happen and you better be okay with it!". It's not how the fantasy genre works at all. A fantasy story can have wacky crap happening but it still has to obey its own self-established rules, otherwise it becomes a nonsensical dumpster-fire, akin to everything these leftist hacks churn out.
(Weber)
Technically middle earth is our world before the gate holding Morgoth broke and the final war reshaped the earth.
“Evil cannot create anything new, they can only corrupt and ruin what good forces have invented or made.” - Tolkien
Do you have the rights to post this?
Underrated Comment
This 100%
Funny how that basically describes leftists.
“The Shadow that bred them can only mock, it cannot make: not real new things of its own.” - Frodo
The scene where Gandalf grabs Marty and drives them back to 1985…. Did anyone else get chills like I did?
This isn’t LOTR it’s just woke fan fiction for virtue signaling. I’ll stick to the books and extended blu-rays.
This is a hybrid between game of thrones and the witcher.
Fan fiction comes from fans. These people hate the source material.
I told myself before this was all released that if they put in a black elf I wouldn't watch the show because that basically tells me all I need to know about the ideology of the creators. But damn I wish I hadn't guessed right.
Amazon: We're going to make a LotR TV series.
Fans: Oh, wow! Yes! A TV series will definitely lend itself more to the longevity of the books than film can. It'll be interesting to see how this will differ from Jackson's trilogy.
Amazon: Actually, we're going to set it in the Second Age.
Fans: Oh, okay. So this won't actually be LotR but that's cool. What will you be focusing on? The Last Alliance? The fall of Numenor? The founding of Numenor? The forging of the Rings of Power?
Amazon: Yes.
Fans: What?
Amazon: All of it?
Fans: But this period of time spans 3,500 years. How many seasons is this show signed on for?
Amazon: 5.
Fans: Okay, so you'll be averaging 700 years per season.
Amazon: Oh, shit! That's a long period of time. Too many human characters are going to die off!
Fans: True but that might work to your advantage. One of the key themes of Tolkein's works was the mortality of men, which was ultimately one of the predominant factors that allowed Sauron to corrupt the Nu-
Amazon: Boring! We're condensing the timeline.
Fans: Wait, what? But a lot of the events of the Second Age are sequential. If you start condensing things, it might not make a lot of sense.
Amazon: True... ...but we don't care.
Fans: Okay, well who are going to be your main characters?
Amazon: Well, Galadriel. People know her.
Fans: But she has barely anything to do with the events of the Second Age.
Amazon: Yeah but we want to make her a warrior full of piss and vinegar!
Fans: I'm pretty sure that's not how she was written.
Amazon: But there's nothing in the books that say she WASN'T a warrior.
Fans: True but there's nothing in the Bible that says the Virgin Mary wasn't a cyborg sent from the future to kill the baby Moses but that doesn't mean she was.
Amazon: *notes cyborg virgin Mary as future project* Well, we have Elrond as well.
Fans: Okay, well, he founds Rivendell in the Second Age and is one of the world's most prominent healers and lore masters-
Amazon: He's an architect!
Fans: *sigh* Who else?
Amazon: Well we've added several original characters.
Fans: Why? Tolkein had at least 250 named characters to choose from. All with their own lineage and history.
Amazon: But we wanted to write the novel Tolkein never wrote.
Fans: But there is a novel! The Silmarillion! What are you basing this series on.
Amazon: Well, we have the rights to the Lord of the Rings, The Hobbit, and the appendices.
Fans: So none of the books concerning the Second Age. This is all beginning to make sense now. I don't see how this show is going to be good.
Amazon: Well, we've hired a black actor and a black actress to play an elf and a dwarven princess respectfully so we have a diverse cast.
Fans: Okay but several things, I'm pretty sure Tolkein didn't write elves and dwarves as black so I don't see how that casting decision makes sense, especially when he wrote LotR as a mythology for England and drew inspiration from Norse, Celtic, and Anglo-saxon mythology. Also, a diverse cast isn't a guarantee your show is going to have quality writing, acting, or cinematography. If you wanted to have a diverse cast and write original stories in the Tolkein universe, why didn't you focus on the regions of Harad, Rhun, or Umbar? That would make more sense. Or, better yet, why not write your own original fantasy series?
Amazon: Well, we wanted the numbers of that sweet, sweet Tolkein fandom to launch this series into instant success. But if they don't like it, it's because they're racist and sexist bigots!
Fans: ... What are your writing credentials?
Amazon: Oh, we worked in uncredited writing positions on Star Trek Beyond.
Fans: This show is doomed.
Normally I don't read walls of text, but this one is actually entertaining.
Like they really had canon more diverse areas with dark skinned people they could have explored but decided researching the cultures and myths that could have inspired those fictional areas was too much work. It really shows they actually don't care about representing minorities, it's just tokenism.
Best comment so far 😂
yep this is good stuff
The best part is that it's going to be a billion dollar mistake. If they do nothing except insult their fanbase no one will watch it. Personally I'm going to watch all of the OG LOTR the day its released.
"... or the Rohanians ride into battle on the back of Harley-Davidsons - actually, that's pretty f*cking awesome!"
I fell off my chair and I am still rolling on the floor laughing at the idea 🤣🤣🤣 and the sad thing is: that would have made this disastrous show a lot better!
I've always wanted know more about the Harad and Easterlings. I think that could be a really cool story. If that's what they had done I'd be on board.
But armored Galadrial and black females dwarves? No. I don't think I'm interested.
(Dwarves live largely underground, dark skin is a biological response to large amounts of sun light. I don't see to many dwarves getting sun burned while mining for metal or precious jewels.)
Exactly that. I mean, show me any species that has lived underground for generations, and they're almost entirely lightly pigmented. Hell, Gollim lived under the mountain for so long that he lost most of his own color. They could put Idris Elba as Durin himself, and it would be a poor choice, not because black actor bad, but because it just doesn't track genetically or biologically.
Orks often lived underground and avoided Sunlight as much as possible and were described as darker skinned by Tolkien if I remember correctly. It's fantasy after all, but it's Tolkiens fantasy and that was based on European mythology. Stop Black dwarves!
@@necrosunderground drow. But for them it's a response to the background magic of the Underdark, like skin would adapt to brighter sunlight on the surface. Duergar and Tiefling also have darker skin, for the same reason.
@A W that must be it! 😂
Exactly!!!
The exact same thing happened with the Witcher. A story told from a polish point of view that took inspiration from polish culture, written by a polish man.
Who took it from Michael Moorcock.
“Evil cannot create anything new, they can only corrupt”- J.R.R Tolkien
spot on
why does every Tolkien fan keep quoting the exact same line on every video? and the line btw is Catholic Church teaching which is where he got it from as a devout Catholic-Christian.
really good one
@@crobeastness Because it's true.
@@adamgreen8590 well ya it's true, obviously. But why does every Tolkien fan know to recite that one same line? He didn't write any other banger truthful things? Any 2 random fundamentalist protestant you find on street has a different favourite verse from the bible.
Spot on critical drinker! As a black man from the UK, I don’t want black characters forcefully pushed into the Tolkien story, the same way I don’t want a black James Bond.
When I follow these stories I want to be fully immersed in these worlds and to me this requires cultural accuracy! There simply were no black people of note in the Anglo-Saxon era and I accept that. This is what makes the fantasy of LOTR so real, and that’s what I love about it. As you stated if they explored the different cultures of the people in the south who had darker skin, I’ll be all for it but I don’t want a black elf or dwarf forced down my throat!
It’s about time we just enjoy stories without bringing race into it. We all know Hollywood of the past was not diverse at all but let’s stop this race/ gender swapping and start making some original great stories for the future.
Wise words 👌
Exactly right. I'm a white guy, but I don't want white people to be in Apocalypto, a movie about the ancient Mayans. Nor do I need any whites in Chinese martial arts movies. This whole "I need to see my race on screen for me to enjoy it" bullshit is out of control. Also, the whole idea of LOTR universe is that it's fantasy. It shouldn't reflect our own world in every way imaginable.
"We all know Hollywood of the past was not diverse at all" Unless you mean pre 60s, that's not true. Name one movie from 70s on ward that didnt have diverse characters and I'll name 10 that did.
@@MtnMania Yes I've also noticed in the older movies, especially 80s and 90s they had diversity but they never made it a number like today :D People were just people, not a skin color :)
It's stupid there are no black people in lotr, if it was a story set in real life I can understand why. But when you have wizard and orcs it makes no sense
The only reason I'm looking forward to this series is because I can't wait to watch Drinker's reviews of each episode. I have a feeling we're in for some good times!
Can literally say this with 90% of films/series that come out nowadays lol
Drinker makes this garbage tolerable. Cheers to that
These woke shows only seem to benefit to those who mock it the most and whilst without suffering from taking in the loss in revenue.
"So diverse female dwarf Jesus meets up with discount Cate Blanchette and is like 'nah it'll be foine.'"
Or we can do the moral thing and keep up the pressure on Amazon for the next 7 months until the whole thing gets cancelled outright. If that happens, I'll know for a fact we're living in the best timeline.
LTR came out on VHS when I was 4 years old, I remember watching the first movie with my parents and being enamored by this beautiful word of fantasy. All three movies I’ve watched over and over through the years, and still watch them to this day at 24 years old. I’m also a black woman. When they came out with the trailer last week, I was excited and fearful because I know the time that we live in now. Where things have to change for the sake of “diversity.” What these Hollywood assholes have wrong is that these movies are about a fight good and evil. That’s it. Why? Why do you have to be forced to see shit that has no reason to be there. They keep pushing this pandering agenda on us! It’s cringy, and embarrassing! And honestly it’s giving me discrimination against people who can’t choose what color they’re born. So what if everyone’s white in the movies?? They’re in fucking Europe! Not Freaking Smack middle in Cameroon ! It’s not my LTR. I’m sorry this shit has gone far enough 😂 I just want to enjoy a fucking movie where race isn’t always at the forefront.
People used to understand the point of escapism back then. Nowadays it's all about political activism and shit, and that's never going to work. I always ask these lunatics if they'd be upset with me if I cast Mel Gibson to play Rosa Parks, and if so why? It's fictional, but that is the exact same reason I don't want a black elf. We know elves were white because Tolkien said they were. I know Parks was black and a woman, so it would annoy me if some old, white dude was cast to play her. It really should be that simple.
God bless you, Foxi Brown! K-Pop Bands, Bollywood Movies, Wakanda, Fresh Prince of Bel Air etc. not diverse AT ALL. Never bothered me as a white person. But why is it that nowadays everything white and western has to be diversified while ethnically homogenous groups are celebrated everywhere else. How many white or hispanic people were in Mulan? None. In Cinderella the same people put in random black people. Same thing about to happen to Ariel. They respect asian culture but not european culture. They hate their own heritage.
Based
The problem is these days is that studio execs are so scared of being racist they will diversify a cast that doesn't need it simply to pander to the whiny bitches who will shout RACISM at anything. I agree with the Critical Drinker. If I watched a film set in feudal japan and there's a whole bunch of white people in it I'd also be like what the fuck is going here. And that is the difference to say Skyrim, where it is established that people of different races have travelled around and settled in certain places which is why you diversity in the cities. It is explained as to why this is. But Hobbiton for example is a small community that would be ethnically the same. Makes no sense to chuck in some black or asian hobbits for the fucking sake of it.
@@politicallycorrectredskin796 when did Tolkein ever explicitly say elves were white? Where in the text is that distinction ever made that ALL elves are white and that there are in no way ever to be black elves?
It's so weird. Me and some friends were commenting on the trend of "diversity" in entertainment about a week ago. I literally created an analogy of white people in feudal Japan who participate in the culture as if they are, and always have been an integrated part of the society. They wear kimonos, speak Japanese, have Japanese names, and take part in the traditions and customs. When you consider that at the time, most places were almost entirely ethnically homogeneous, this type of shit makes even less sense. Especially when it's supposed to be historical (I'm looking at you black Anne Boleyn).
That black Anne Boleyn was a middle finger to all British people.
@@misanthropicattackhelicopt4148 I just think some people don’t consider the fact that Anne Boleyn was white as the defining part of her life.
People who come out of that show thinking that Anny Boleyn was black have only been misinformed to the smallest degree, and certainly were less lead astray then say Bravehearts depiction of Scottish culture.
Why are you shocked when stories are told through the lenses of a modern society? Are you pissed that Shakespeare used to have females play males and vice versa hundreds of years ago? At what point do you guys just cut the crap and admit that the real problem you have is seeing black people on television?
@@miniman2132 Small misinformation is still misinformation. And changing the race of a REAL PERSON to something else to fill unnecessary diversity quotas is the definition of stupid.
Interesting fact... There are indigenous white people that lived in Japan 😂. The Japanese killed them all lol. Think there are about 20000 of them left in the world and most are mixed in with the Japanese populace.
@@miniman2132
You didn't even watch this video did you?
you just came here to scream, not debate, scream because you are not willing to hear.
Galadriel remained a mysterious, powerful, pivotal figure in Middle Earth, respected by mortals and immortals alike on her own merits, for thousands of years. This action girl retcon seems to invalidate her original characterization. Was Tolkien's Galadriel not enough? Are women not valid unless they swing swords and act angry and brash? Was the stately, plotting, timeless Galadriel of boundless wisdom not an empowered women?
I hate the political retcons because they always seem to enforce the exact opposite message of what they want, that women must be more like the traditional masculine ideal in order to be powerful. Women can be strong in more ways than one, Eoywn, Galadriel, Luthien, and the female Valar are wonderful examples of this diversity. Tolkien knew this. It was enough to inspire me as a young girl and has stuck with me my whole life. Amazon's series is just insulting.
As of current, the official teaser trailer has 24M views, 90K likes.
This video has 1.1M views, 103K likes.
Don't need a dislike counter to see what the people think.
Has anyone wrote "Dislike" in the comments to see how many likes that gets?
@@PM9Video no, they all just put the Tolkien quote of evil not being able to create, inly corrupt. Its pretty awesome
Makes me really wish more great works got such quality adaptations but really that trilogy is such a unicorn perfect storm of passion and respect and reverence that even with the right casting and an unlimited budget it would be hard for anything else to stack up. It really was a once in a lifetime project, it's extremely humbling and awe inspiring
I've never been so upset over a piece of media before. I don't even want to use Amazon to buy anything anymore! And it's not the changes themselves that make me angry, it's the sheer disrespect.
I think I was on the edge when they cancelled The Expanse. But the terrible WoT adaptation, and now The Rings of Power has me more of a similar mindset.
@@josie_the_valkyrie They were just getting to the intresting stuff about the Aliens and then canceled it.
@@misanthropicattackhelicopt4148 Yeah, and I was a bit disappointed that they did not go into more detail about Duarte and the Laconians. Really could have spread that over two seasons!
Mariana Rio Maldonado is the “scholar” they hired and announced to appease the faith of fans by consulting on set.
Mariana’s publication: “ ‘feminine’ is a wide ranging concept that enables the reexamination of Tolkenien characters beyond binary gender paradigms”
Yeah we’re fucked
Oh, so that's what they decided to replace Shippey with? Fuck this show, and fuck Lexcorp for making it.
@@Carandini damn Lex Luthor he took 40 cakes
@@Carandini At least Lexcorp might have done something cool with it. Amazon on the other hand seems to be taking notes from the way Netflix has been adapting anime.
I don't think we're fucked, they are the ones who'll be fucked with all the money they'll lose with this garbage. I won't watch it it and as far as I'm concerned it doesn't exist.
Do they not realize that they are fucking ruining almost everything good with their political ideology?
Unfortunately, this had to be expected. Look what they did with the Wheel of Time series. We may just have to relegate ourselves to just reading our favorite stories to avoid having them corrupted.
“They were a race high and beautiful, the older Children of the world, and among them the Eldar were as kings, who now are gone: the People of the Great Journey, the People of the Stars. They were tall, fair of skin and grey-eyed, though their locks were dark, save in the golden house of Finrod; and their voices had more melodies than any mortal voice that now is heard.”
/Tolkien about Elves/
Pro tip : Don’t give the greatest work of fantasy literature to a bunch of failed Gender studies majors who would have problems reading a blank sticky note.
Fucking lmao
I mean, Amazon *had* a lore expert who literally wrote the book on Tolkien and LotR. Then he did an interview where he mentioned there's some things the Tolkien family won't let Amazon touch. So they fired him and hired some woman who went on a Twitter tirade about JRR being a sexist white supremacist.
It's deliberate
It's possible to fail Gender Studies?
@@MrDj232 for real?! damn, what a world we live in now
First the Star Wars fanbase, and now the LOTR base….it’s apparent to say that no fandom is safe from backlash, threats, boycotting, and trolling 🤦🏻♂️
The Halo show is also getting ruined. The main character is a strong Asian woman.
Agreed. Look what they did to The Wheel of Time.... ugh
And the heman fanbase...and the Terminator fanbase...and the Ghostbuster Fanbase... The startrek fanbase....the Marvel fanbase...and and and... all the 80's boomers that once and until recently, preffered to watch old series than newly produced crap.
The hollywood solution : Let's make them disgusted by them, and then if we are lucky a new crowd will rise. If not, let's bury the shit.
The problem they have been facing is... The money earned through these series were outstandingly high, and like good old dive bars these days, a bigger new crowd cannot equal a good old fashion british drinker at the counter.
They tried to correct the shot with Ghostbuster. Did make an effort with Dune... Brought mandolarian to revive the flame ( and receive boomer's mega cash flow )...
They even had to modify the second season of heman, so they dind't lose the true fans so much so that their toys would die on shelf ( like starwars )
They are just corporate fools that follow the money they believe they can make, and have zero ideas how to create good new content that would catter new crowd, and eventually please older crowd.
So we got pictures of seven characters. Four of them are invented by the show (dark skinned elv, dark skinned dwarv, human male, human female). One lives in the wrong time (Durin IV). That tells me everything i need to know about this show. Tolkien invented hundreds of characters with name and they need to invent their own characters.
nothing wrong with a dark skinned dwarf. The rest is just plain dumb. Like the "love story" in the hobbit.
@@markgraham5971 Sorry but black dwarves are the dumbest thing about this. Dwarves live underground so they aren't exposed to the sunlight. It literally makes no sense from a physical point of view.
@@tobiasschaffler1498 Assuming that they are like Humans. Which obviously they are not. Does a brown dogs fur start as white but need sun to change ?
@@markgraham5971 Read some Darwin please.
@@isaaccisneros9778 What does real world theory have to do with Fictional Characters? Thought you sounded smart huh ?
The same people using the 'its a fictional universe' argument are the same people who had a meltdown when Scarlett Johansson played Major in ghost in the shell live action , despite the specific android never being stated to be Japanese.
These are the same people who would have a meltdown if the Lions in the Lion King live action had white voice actors.
These are the same people who have no problems with Snow White being black, but would scream bloody murder if Aladdin was made white.
Tolkien intended his legendarium to be a long lost ancient English mythology which was set sometime in the past so the "it's fictional" is not really an argument. Who knows? What Tolkien wrote may very well be a history book. Lol.
What I REALLY wanted was for Aladdin to be Chinese, like he's supposed to be. The confused exploding of heads would have been interesting.
@@juliaj7939 wait till you find out there was African presence in Europe . The dwarves being black is not an issue there were African pygmies described by Erik the red when he discovered Greenland . So a dwarf being black isn’t that deep
@@michaelchareka1175 wait till you find out that Europe colonized Africa. So if the King of Wakanda is depicted as white then it's not really that big of a deal.
the problem with the "its a fictional universe" argument is that both sides can use it.
one side will say "if it was written that all elves are white, then that is how it should be. it is a made up universe".
the other side will say "if it is a made up universe, what do you care if they make them black"?
the only real point of discussion should be "does the lore mean something? should people be allowed to change the vision of someone else? can anyone just inject something that has no continuity with the original lore"?
my answer is no. at least not without permission from the creator.
Just rewatch the LOTR trilogy. There's nothing that can replicate that production, dedication of cast, love for the book/story and mightiness of those movies. They are now regarded as masterpiece. This Amazon adaptation is an insult from start, real lotr fans will avoid whatching obviously, but what we don't like is destroying the franchise & the name... Thanks Drinker, keep em coming.
The people who made this show, have zero respect for the source-material, and it will show in the way they will cheaply name-drop elements of the lore, without actually caring about its weight in the story itself. This is just an attempt to grab money from a large fantasy production, while pandering to the political climate that currently abhors anything that does not conform to the enforced narrative of global multi-ethnicity that the corporate masters want. Globalists would abolish all our history today if they could; and pave it over with a society they own and control. But it has to happen gradually, which is why they are busy paying for their media and entertainment conglomerates to shill multi-ethnicity to death. Its no different than the rulers of old having art that does not conform with their narratives destroyed - the Middle East is full of examples of this, with Islamic fundamentalists destroying what was once multitudes of ancient cultures (and their cultural sites), because it did not conform with the Islamic narrative of history. Its about power, it always was.
I will watch it to see just how bad it is. I want to destroy them, in whatever amount possible, in the best way I know.
The movie's Arwen with her antics (not to mention the completely made-up ginger whatsherface in the Hobbit) is still preposterous. They had Glorfindel, an absolutely legendary and utterly awesome Tolkien character cut out of the story to make place for her presenting a stunt she never did in the books. Not that I like Tolkien reducing women to babymaking and handcrafting organic-based interior design items, even if he allows them a short period of rebellion (Eowyn) before he sentences them to returning to their dull and meaningless existence all over again for the rest of their miserable and unappreciated lives. Still, it doesn't work for me to try to mediate one extreme with the other, especially if it's distorting the original novel's content.
Also, P.J.'s elves look like undernourished, anemic, consumption-ridden hospice patients, and that is NOT how Tolkien described them AT ALL.
Yep, the correct course of action is to step over it. Amazon will burn a billion dollars trying to appease people who would never watch it anyway. Let them stew in negligible viewing figures. Leave it, and keep the good.
What they're "making" isn't LOTR....it's fanfic based in middle earth lmao
*_"Evil cannot create. Only corrupt."_*
- Tolkien
goddamned, he knew it already
When George RR Martin was asked why the slaves in GOTR were dark skinned he responded "when you film in Morocco and you ask for help, you get Moroccans". Now im paraphrasing that quote, but i think it gets the point across.
I hate to say it, but is anyone surprised. For all its flaws, at least the hobbit, didn't feel like it was spitting on the fans
I’ve been saying for years that people shouldn’t hate them so much and when we get something worse, people will look on them like we look back at the Star Wars prequels; bad quality but trying to stay true to the original and capable of being so much worse.
They aren’t nearly as bad as this will be
Except for the "love story" . I almost walked out on that.
It is very upsetting to me. I got into the books about 4 years ago and have read almost all his other works. The story is so pure and noble that any deviation is true bastardization. Sad really.
From the Vanity Fair article:
"
In the novels, the aforementioned things take place over thousands of years, but Payne and McKay have compressed events into a single point in time. It is their biggest deviation from the text, and they know it’s a big swing. “We talked with the Tolkien estate,” says Payne. “If you are true to the exact letter of the law, you are going to be telling a story in which your human characters are dying off every season because you’re jumping 200 years in time, and then you’re not meeting really big, important canon characters until season four. Look, there might be some fans who want us to do a documentary of Middle-earth, but we’re going to tell one story that unites all these things.”
"
That is the big swing and it means I will never be able to watch it as a faithful representation of Tolkien's Second Age. (And yes, I know that the LotR movies compressed the period between Bilbo's birthday party 3001 and Frodo leaving the Shire 3017, but that is a minor change in comparison.)
I could stomach black dwarven princesses (political match with a dwarven kingdom in the south of the Middle-earth, why not?) and black silvan elves (again, Middle-earth is big, and I could entertain idea of a branch of Avari elves being darker skinned, no problem). But the squeezing of time means that they have to do brutal violence to the timeline, and also to the canonical characters.
Elrond is described as a 'politically ambitious young leader'. By the War of Elves and Sauron, he was almost 2000 years old.
Galadriel is described as the commander of Northern Armies in one image. Like, no. She never lead an army in her life. Also, even more glaringly, where the hell is Celeborn??? I can only assume that this is so that they can have a Galadriel+Halbrand love story.
Isildur, the heir of Elendil, and hence the heir of the Duchy of Andunie and one of the great lords of Numenor, is a "sailor".
This is at best 'inspired by'.
What they should have done would have been to set the first season at the time of the War of the Elves and Sauron, in mid-Second Age. Tell a good story there, basically Sauron's manipulations of the Elves, maybe the friction of the Numenoreans with the local people in Enedwaith and their interaction with the High Elves of Lindon, as well as the debates back in Numenor. Then have the War and Sauron's defeat as the climax, and you could have even had 'It is not over yet, Sauron is defeated, but not for good.' cliffhanger for the second season. Then in the Second Season, you could tell the story of Numenor's Downfall: the capture of Sauron, the (further) corruption of Numenor, and then the Downfall itself as the season climax. And this would leave a Third Season that could focus on the creation of the Kingdoms in Exile, Arnor and Gondor, and the War of the Last Alliance.
In particular, the Second Season could have delved more into the conflict between Numenor and the Southrons, which could have been further explored in the Third Season. While Gondorians were not nearly as bad as the King's Men, when it came to exploiting Harad, nor was it strong enough in late Second Age to do so, that earlier exploitation would have made for a fertile recruiting ground for Sauron. Basically dealing with the consequences of the Second Season. Also, it would have been easy to introduce heroic Haradrim, perhaps enslaved by the 'evil Numenoreans', but rescued with the Faithful from the Downfall and then working to try and detach the Haradrim from Sauron. You'd even have Herumor and Fuinor as a pair of recurring villains in Second and Third Season. Granted, the hundred years between Downfall and the War of the Last Alliance could be tough for non-Numenorean characters, but it would be easy enough to reference 'Your grandfather/grandmother was a good friend of ours, and we support your struggle. Tell us what you need.' They could then arrive with a small army of like-minded Haradrim, showing that there were good people amongst the Haradrim (only the Elves did not split; they all fought against Sauron). You could even have a happy ending with those heroic Haradrim overthrowing their Black (as in evil, they tended to be golden-haired and fair-skinned, from the Edain House of Hador) Numenorean overlords and establishing their own dynasty at the end of the Third Age. Or just have them killing Herumor and/or Fuinor in a duel at the Battle of the Last Alliance and just imply that is what is going to happen when they head home.
Alright, I will stop now before I wind myself up even more.
Tbf, Galadriel had led an army during the Third Age. Though without a doubt a 6'4 woman can use a sword, but that was her style. Her power was elsewhere.
@@MattyPan118 When? Celeborn was the warleader during the War of the Ring:
"After the fall of the Dark Tower and the passing of Sauron the Shadow was lifted from the hearts of all who opposed him. but fear and despair fell upon his servants and allies. Three times Lórien had been assailed from Dol Guldur. but besides the valour of the elven people of that land. the power that dwelt there was too great for any to overcome, unless Sauron had come there himself. Though grievous harm was done to the fair woods on the borders, the assaults were driven back; and when the Shadow passed, Celeborn came forth and led the host of Lórien over Anduin in many boats. They took Dol Guldur, and Galadriel
threw down its walls and laid bare its pits, and the forest was cleansed."
To emphasize: "Celeborn came forth and led the host of Lórien... "
That Galadriel was powerful is not in question. Heck, I have no problem saying that she was the most powerful elf still living in Middle-earth, and possibly only behind Sauron and Gandalf the White in power, and I am not sure about the either of the two if you strip Providence from Gandalf the White and have Sauron without the Ring.
But I cannot for the life of me remember ANY occasion when she led an army. Even when Eregion fell (in one version): "The scouts and vanguard of Sauron's host were already approaching when Celeborn made a sortie and drove them back;" In another version, Celeborn leads an attack from Moria with Dwarves and Lorien elves, but is beaten back. (I could not find the quotation quickly.)
Apparently she did fight against other Noldor at Alqualonde (at least in one version): "In Fëanor's revolt that followed the Darkening of Valinor Galadriel had no part: indeeed she with Celeborn fought heroically in defence of Alqualondë against the assault of the Noldor, and Celeborn's ship was saved from them."
I am disappointed by that as well, that means they just want to have recognizable faces to put on posters for endless seasons and tell what ever story they feel like instead of an actual adaptation which basically this means we won`t see a second age/silmarillion live action just some random stories "inspired by" as you said, they just didn`t have the guts to kill of mortal characters each season.. I mean why not, I think it could have been very cool to have each season tell a story and be confined, it could give so much richness to the show but I`m guessing they thought it wouldn`t sell as good
@@Darduel Not to mention, since they are definitely including one 'forbidden' (forbidden by who?) elf-woman love story, and as I suspect, Galadriel+Halbrand, how much richer in tragedy and emotion those stories would be, when we know that the mortal one of the pair is going to die in, at best, a couple of centuries or so (Numenorean) or within a century (normal human)? Also, Tolkien was pretty clear on the elves being monogamous for life, and not remarrying. So there is that additional tragedy aspect as well. How much richer an exploration of that difference in lifespans it would be, when in the next season, we know that the male elf has had to either abandon his mortal family, or watch them all grow old and die (Elrond and his family were the exception, all other 'half-elves' are mortal), one after another, for generations? Now that is a tragedy, and a character conflict worth exploring. You could even have it from the other side, one of the human characters being the Nth-great-grandchild of the elf.
Anyway, I think I have managed to talk myself out of even watching this series, and if my username didn't reveal that already, I am very much a Tolkien fanboy, so it is not a decision that I will make lightly. But everything I have seen and read is telling me that I will be much happier ignoring that this series even exists, than watching it and throwing something heavy at the TV in frustration.
Just to add to my comment about Galadriel's generalship... Had they stuck to adapting what is canon in Second Age, and ADDED armored up Galadriel fighting at Celeborn's side, that would not have been a problem for me. I think in one of his notes or letters, Tolkien mentions young elven women going to war, so it is not totally inconceivable. Also, the Dol Guldur quote above could easily be read as Galadriel being with the host of Lorien, just not in command.
I am even fine with recasting Elrond and Galadriel, since obviously they couldn't afford Hugo Weaving and Cate Blanchett, even though we know from the LotR prologue that during the Second Age, they looked pretty much like they did at the end of the Third Age (and why not, being thousands of years old already).
It is messing the timeline and the canonical characters' backgrounds and personalities that makes this Not-Middle-earth for me. It bears the same resemblance to LotR as Xena the Warrior-Princess to the historical Mycenean Greece. Except not nearly as entertaining, is my guess.
Galadriel beat the temptation of the ring when a hardened warrior like Isildur or Boromir could not. It was a huge testament to her strength that despite having never seen battle she could turn away the ring when it was freely offered to her by Frodo.
Éowyn and Merry being part of the battle for Gondor was a woke ass moment. They wouldn't let Merry fight because he's a Hobbit. They wouldn't let Éowyn fight because she's a woman. They did it anyway and Éowyn killed a supposedly unlikable demon.
And I think that was Tolkien's intent. She was the first woman to show men that women could fight.
Tolkien was way ahead of his time and shoving woke shit into his world cheapens that. Making Galadriel a warrior cheapens her show of strength in the face of temptation in Fellowship of the Ring and Éowyn's defeat of the Witch King.
I think you meant a supposedly unkillable demon.
Even having expected nothing, somehow I'm still horrified at the treatment of Tolkein's work that I see from Amazon. The fact that anything in this video actually had to be explained is a travesty in of itself, but... alas, these are the days we live in. Where every creative work must be forced to align with politically correct ideology, and any opposition is labeled as evil. No freedom of thought or expression or self is allowed, and even works from years and ages gone past are re-written like history books. It's frightening really.
yes it is frightening. they will pursue you even in your dreams to shove diversity and woke themes down your throat. to me Middle Earth is not a franchise, it is a foundational work of art. I just rebought a printed version of the books to keep them safe because there may come a time when they will rewrite the books to make them fit better with modern politics
@@KomodoSound Good thought! Best to preserve what we can at this rate. And it is far more than a franchise to me,as well... it is one of the great pinnacles of English literature. I have immense respect for Tolkien and his work, as I do in my European heritage; and Lord of the Rings, to me, symbolizes so much of what is great and good about it.
Just to point out: Galadriel in her youth was, Tolkien says, "Amazonian". But the 2nd Age was very far from her youth. She was already thousands of years old by then. Still, she did take an active part in warfare even by the time of LOTR: she personally threw down the walls of Dol Guldur at the head of an army from Lothlorien. But sword-swinging? Yeah, probably not.
How about yeah, no. She was extremely powerful but not like that portrayal
Fantasy so rigid its basically another reality? Its fantasy just make up some stupid shit in your head that justifies it.
I'm just repeating what Tolkien actually wrote. To claim that she took no active part in war is just incorrect.
@@TheRabbitHole Tolkien literally created a society, a world, languages in his books. To even touch it is a tragedy, to completely change something is down right disrespectful and malicious
@@lushingtonbrady9757 pretend there is a multiverse and youre good.
That reverb and delivery on 'the message' is the highlight of every video for me xD Keep up the good content sir!
I don't really think the problem lies in changing Tolkien's universe or work, the problem with these types of work is that most often than not all of the "progressive" casting is meant to be used as a shield for bad writing, they know it'll cause a stir, they know people will be divided in either "racists to love to hate everything with diversity" and "regressives that will defend the work no matter how bad it is", it's a tactic by this point, make a big deal about diversity so when regular people realize the writing is garbage they'll not want to point it out and look like bigots. It's what happened with Ghostbusters.
The majority of attempts at writing a new mythos or even just a new story or series by the modern left flops incredibly hard with all, barring the die hard activist supporters.
So the left, instead of creating their own works, have to corrupt other works to spread their message.
The diversity hires and tokenized characters are the reason for the bad writing. Because they have to follow strict rules when diversity characters and women are concerned. Basically Diversity characters and women =smart, good, and virtuous. White men = Dumb, evil, or sheep that only succeed because diversity characters or women allowed it. Now how well they shoehorn this propaganda BS into an already established story is what decides whether it is watchable or not. Some are good at hiding it, and use some pretty solid writing tricks to do so. A good example would be the Witcher series. Others either don't have the talent to hide it, or just want to shove it in your face, which usually results in unwatchable nonsense. Examples would be the new He man, Ghostbuster 2016, or the entire Disney Star Wars trilogy.
I'm always reminded of the show Vikings when the diversity card is pulled and I get Middle Earth is a fantasy, but to honour its creator, they should follow his intentions, his "history". Much like depictions of vikings in the show "Vikings", it had very few or little diverse casting because historically, the vikings never roamed that far south to encounter anybody else with a different skin colour.
Similarly, Black Panther had a predominantly all black cast because it was set in the African nation. That makes complete sense, its logical and nobody saw it as an issue, it was celebrated.
The majority of audiences have little to no issue with seeing individuals of different colours on the big and small screen, but its the heavy handed, insulting and obvious tokenism that has infiltrated Hollywood that is so ridiculous I hate to think what the future holds.
We're talking about people who believe that reality itself is subjective, you can't argue using history against someone who can't even agree that 2+2=4.
Sorry to break it too you son, but the upcoming Viking show spin-off 'Vikings : Valhalla' will have black Vikings.
Uh oh! don't look at vikings valhalla!
Vikings - Valhalla is going to be an utter mess. Ragnar rolls in his grave.
@@SagaciousNihilist - That's why it's bs that shouldn't be watched.
I would love a series or movie showing the historical conflict between Numenoreans and other peoples in Middle Earth and shows a sympathetic side to them.
They *have* to try and retcon The Message into every franchise, because they understand that nobody would actually watch an original story based purely on it.
Amazon: “it felt only natural to us that an adaptation of Tolkien's work would reflect what the world actually looks like”
That statement is absurd in it's face and shows as well as anything else just how clueless and talentless and, well, stupid, the people who made this are. Tolkien's work never reflected what the world actually looked like. Were there Elves and Hobbits and the like running around 1940's England? Of course there weren't. Tolkien created a world unto itself. It may have been a reflection of his world in many ways but it was never meant to be his actual world. And because of that he created it with very specific races and customs and conflicts and politics. The fact that the halfwits at Amazon can't grasp that, or simply choose to ignore it, is the root of the problem here.
Because the world that Tolkien did create is wonderous and awe inspiring and has captured the hearts and minds of countless generations of readers. The dolts at Amazon don't deserve to read Tolkien's work let alone mess with it.
This is it. Eventually these people will figure out that fantasy isn't about perfectly reflecting the world in which we live. It's fantasy. As The Drinker said, if you were going to diversify the world then do it in a believable way by introducing complete cultures that ground the diversity in reality. If we had a completely different type of character from a different part of middle earth we can believe it. But if you just throw in more melanin to make Middle Earth a melting pot then it feels inauthentic and forces the question of what happened to those races afterwards.
What they mean is "What 21st century America looks like". The cultural ignorance and intolerance of modern Hollywood writing is almost beautiful .
well put
Amen
Amazon studios has some insane rules about racial, sexual, political and religious representation if directors want to get any funding for their shows at all, let alone 1 Billion Dollars. These rules are just one-size-fits-all and probably never considered that a show could play in essentially medieval Europe. I honestly believe that the directors and writers love and understand Tolkien and that they were just constrained by the studio. Hate the decision if you want, but take your hate to the right people. And act accordingly. If the show turns out to be great story wise I'd say you should still watch it. Just don't pay Amazon any money for it.
“But as the theme progressed, it came into the heart of Melkor to interweave matters of his own imagining that were not in accord with the theme of Ilúvatar.”
-J. R. R. Tolkien, The Silmarillion
Jeff "Melkor" Bezos.
Omg the PERFECT quote for this.
The best example of changing a female character into an action role in a recent adaptation was Cowboy Bebop. Faye Valentine was the classic femme fatale character. She did not get into fist fights, bar brawls or even get down and dirty with the boys. She was a woman who puts on the disguise of a classy lady and only use violence, as in just her guns, only as a last resort to catch the bounty but Netflix completely changed her character. Turning into a dude bro lesbian who jumps into a fight with the other main characters for no reason but to prove that she can fight them.
They do not understand REAL strong women like Galadriel, who decides to reject the ring, even after Frodo offers it to her. She is as strong as Sauron, wears NO armor. And was able to lay a "Mythal", an elven magic spell over her land, to preserve her culture and the land for thousand years.
Calling these hacks r3tards is an insult to r3tards all around the world. Just showing an image of Galadriel in plate armor shows, they do not understand the lore at all.
fay threw hands in the anime idk what you're talking about lol. Not that Faye Valentine's live action version did justice to her character, but that part is not (at least completely) unique to the LA
@@kmn9568 Maybe once she did but it was actually more of a surprise vs how she's portrayed by Netflix. There's no charm with this character they made. The majority of the time, Faye doesn't actually fight like the other characters and that's ok
@@melchiormagni Faye didn't appear until episode 3 and her first appearance, she wasn't throwing hands. She took out gun and unloads and the proceeded to get captured TWICE in the same episode. She managed to get out of her situation but she is not an action character like Spike or Jet. If you rewatch it. The very first episode she was in. She wasn't trying to help the boys. Her focus is to steal the money and get out.
The entire episode of Ballard of Fallen Angel was all about Spike but Netflix fucked it up so Faye saves the day instead of her getting saved in the original. They even tied Jet's new daughter character for no reason. Everything about Netflix Bebop is an insult to the original. It's not even GOOD fanfiction. It's terrible high school level fanfiction, probably written by someone who hated how the story of the anime went and wanted THEIR vision instead so they can "fix it"
@@melchiormagni She's a bad ass but she isn't the ass kicker that Netflix is trying to portray her as. She's a different kind of character that's apart from Spike and Jet. They all represent a specific type of character and personality and are unique. Once you start blending all their skills and traits together, it becomes bland and you start to care less about them as individuals.
Bangladeshi here and I absolutely hate this forced diversity bullshit. I personally couldn’t care less if there was a person of my skin colour or not in the show or movie unless that’s how they were originally written.
I haven’t read Lord of the rings but I have read the Witcher and I was absolutely pissed with the whole forced diversity drama by Netflix regarding the TV show. It made no sense as the whole series is about race and discrimination of species like Elves, Dwarfs, dryads, etc by humans (which can be seen as allegory for natives against white folks). By seeing humans of various colours accept each other but still discriminate against other species makes no sense at all narrative wise. Also since it’s based off Polish lore they really should have had a polish cast as there literally no polish representation at all in anything but instead we get the typical British and forced diversity.
ugh..the witcher tv show writings horrible man.. they dropped the ball on it so hard
Actually, Galadriel in armor with a blade is something i personally don't mind seeing...
The thing I'm far more scared about is the dialogue. The pieces we got from the trailer sound too generic, and dialogue is by FAR the most characteristic thing about Tolkien's work. It looks outright disrespectful to use D&D-like dialogue in my opinion.
Unfortunately they need to dumb it down for todays audience.
@@StaffordMagnus dumb it down for their target shee.....audience*
I bet it's full of swearing too. Like Game of Thrones. Completely inappropriate for the source material.
@@chriswilkinson7636 and especially the Witcher. 'Fire fucker' and all that nonsense.
@@chriswilkinson7636 You already know all the other Knights are gonna act like jocks basically around the female Knight. (Idk jack shit about Lotr lore besides the movies. So the female in heavy armor I'm assuming is the main character) Also guarantee most of the highborns that are gonna appear are gonna act like cartoon versions of any member of House Lannister.
Trey and Matt from South Park renaming Token to Tolkien... is Tolkienization!
Outside of major trade hubs, there's no such thing as diversity in pre-industrial society. Even if you artificially created one, the population would homogenize within a generation and a half. All of the isolated cosmopolitan villages in that Wheel of Time series were ridiculous. You don't have multiple races in that kind of setting because the entire village is 2nd cousins.
Any diversity in history usually came from either significantly adventurous or trade enterprising cultures OR from great migrations. However, given time this diversity would homogenise as people either left or integrated into the local gene pool, or the trade faring cultures collapsed or came under persecution. Jewish people are a great example of medieval diversity which had a clear explanation how they came to be in a place and were able to maintain their identity within a different larger ethnic group. The Romani are also a good example too. There is certainly place for diversity in Tolkien and in historical settings but it always has an explanation.
This is exactly what was frustrating. You could feel the quotas at work, since instead of giving the people a separate culture and world to come from they just acted as if it's natural to have four different races in a village of 40 people. It's exciting when you see a clash of cultures and characters have specific backstory and origin, it's dull when stories set in magical Europe are inexplicably diverse. It feels like watching a Korean Drama with 30% white people just there for no reason.
Well Texans ride horse, in Alabama they ride their cousin...
@Not Steve You're just trumpeting how little you know. For the love of god, do some meaningful research.
@@johnstrawb3521 Oh look, someone who doesn't like reality and can't even produce an argument against it.
You could've simply wrote "Waaaaaa!" if you can only act like a crybaby. lol
I truly do love that fantasy cannot be fantasy anymore. Fantasy must be reality.
What annoys me is how there seems to be so little interest making series and films inspired by other cultures, e.g. African history, Asian or ancient American. All these companies want to do is take stories inspired by European history and reimagine them through a 21st century lens. I'd gladly watch a series with a fantasy world inspired by ancient Egypt or the Ottoman empire, hell even feudal Japan, dynastic China or the Nubian empire if they were good enough. They've no interest in making that, instead it's "What if the Vikings were black" "what if the queen of England was black" "What if middle-earth looked like London in 2022", I can't enjoy stuff like this, it just ruins the immersion
My thoughts exactly. Why do the film makers doubt the intelligence and curiosity of the viewer, we only want a good story.
Because they are lazy and want to score woke virtue points and make easy money. It’s not about the content. That’s why everything is a damn remake now. Nobody is innovating or creating thoughtful stories.
А very good point you made! There are countless stories around the world to choose from - and yet the points of reference are so few! I wonder is it the limited knowledge or willful desire to destroy particular pieces of creative art / ignore the rest of the world on the false premise that they're not good/interesting/relevant enough (both of these). It's like instead of broadening horizons for the whole world by actually being inclusive they're (willfully?) doing the exact opposite.
These days the Rohirrim would be portrayed as bare-assed alphabet mob in pink feather helmets and neon-blue chaps waving giant dildoes while riding their Gayley Transverson, running on unicorn farts and lesbian space-witch chants.
As a woman who loves Lord of the rings, it never really bothered me to see a main cast formed only by men. I liked to see the good values these men had; their comradery to one another, their honor, their respect... It never mattered if my gender wasn't there on the screen; they were people of value that I would follow no matter what
ikr, and women were not disregarded. It was shown that they can be as powerful as men and that disregarding them was just ridiculous, but at the time that's how things were... Loved seeing men actually have feelings they accept too (hi Aragorn ^^)
Women in LOTR were portrayed as beautiful, kind and important characters. They were powerful through their femininity.
Nowadays women characters always need to kill the bad guys and battle, something that most people don't even want to see because women irl don't really like to use physical violence in the first place.
@@V.Hansen Depending of the context or history, is not always bad that there are women that can be criminals or assasins oe violent, the notion that all women are pure and good angels is also bad and false. But, the thing is, that doesn´t mean that ALL female characters MUST be in that way in order to deserve being considered brave and strong. And also, you have right in saying that we as women don´t like to see characters that are basically men in woman bodies so much, but well, we do like female characters that are strong and capable in general (maybe even physically, if makes sense with the story and character), but also that are complex and deep and have more things to show than that.
I love LOTR, and I understand that it was written by a very traditional man, based in old mythologies and I have an open mind to accept that. There are lots of other stories that I like that have more female characters and that focus a lot more on them, and I love that more stories like that are being made.
But also, I don´t need to have that in everything I like, and I know that other women share this opinion. Also, even that LOTR have very few female characters, and some things that are due to Tolkien being a man of his age, there are also a lot of interesting elements in his story, like men being able to be vulnerable, caring and open for example, that even today could be considered disruptive.
@@MoRPho151 I am not saying that all women are pure and good angels, but I think they should still contain their femininity when being evil. Most of what we see in Hollywood is male figures switched 1 to 1 with female ones. The problem is also that female characters that physically defeat bad guys in combat are often too powerful because movie writers and producers don't like to show off women being beaten down by men or something that could trigger a traumatic experience.
So most female protagonists (like new Mulan or Rey from Starwars) are basically able to do everything, they don't really have to go through training or anything like that but are just naturally able to deal with every situation.
Yes, exactly the main heroes of the Lord of the rings are men. As you have said they have values and honor and you watched it. Thus, It doesn't matter who is the main hero or we all can relate to their actions because we share the same values and same emotions we can understand them. When an honorable hero is represented whether female or male, I can relate to it because we are all human beings. How I can say there's no representation of me there if I can relate to that hero and understand his actions.
Eowyn's character wasn't a warrior woman for female empowerment, it was to highlight her plight as a (highborn) woman confined within her domestic expectations while she watched her male loved ones risk their lives and even die in battle.
In other words, she had a great backstory and believable lead up in why she joined the battle at Pelannor fields. And it wasn't because she was a bad ass strong woman. She was dying inside.
probly felt bad for the grima years
She was a strong woman, but not in the shallow mindless way Hollywood Disney and Amazon understand it.
She is clearly very afraid of the battle to come when she is assembled with the other warriors of Rohan, but she pushes on anyway. She took the risks of disobedience, combat, bringing a Hobbit who could be a liability along because he shares similar motives and reasons to hers for wanting to fight, she choses to fight the witch king knowing it could very well be the last decision of her life
She was strong because despite all this, she had the bravery and determination to do it, but it never meant everything was gonna be easy or that she wouldn't be quaking in her boots in the moments before the battle
That's what these big companies fail to understand about strong women. Its not that they can beat and outsmart everyone, it's that they'll rise to the challenge with whatever skills and qualities they have, despite all that holds them back. Kicking ass should be earned, not your default persona
And when people critique LotR, the creators don't say, "You only hate it because you're sexist!"
Well your description sounded like a bad ass strong woman to me.
Even for men that can be applied as a quality.
I guess what is noble and timeless value such as love/desire to protect are universal traits that everyone can identify themselves with.
Im an arab, I would love if the representation of my people in movies would be more than taxi drivers and terrorists, but that doesnt mean that the story or the established lore has to suffer. The part of middle earth Tolkien describes is based on medieval europe and these people were white. No discussion. If you want to diversify the cast, just set your story in the east, the easterlings are basically arabs/persians and there is a group called the "black numenors" guess what they look like? Dont change the lore because you are to lazy to think of an own world and an own story...
And to the people saying " but in lotr the arabic and dark skinned looking people are "bad guys" ...as you said, is based on medieval europe, guess who was trying to invade medieval europe and did manage with a portion of it for some centuries? Like, imagine saying the movie 300 is racist because the persians are the bad guys. People forget that through history every big culture has been the invasor at one point as well as the invaded. And usually when the story is from the perspective of the invaded, the invasors are the "bad guys". The point is we should be capable of watching those things and conclude everyone was the "bad guy" to someone at some point, but, most of the time, it was centuries ago so we should not let it affect how we treat each other today.
Black Númenóreans where white, haha. They were called that because they fell to evil
@@nessyness5447 I mean 300 WAS vaguely racist in that sense though. It portrayed Spartans as a wholly noble culture and Persians as irredeemably evil.
The movie just lifted the comic to the screen though so this one is on Alan Moore.
How come the Arabs don't make blockbuster movies themselves?
@@AndrewThoesen because the spartans were the main characters and it was from their point of view, if it had been from the pov of the persians then the greeks would have been the bad ones . it was not a historical documentary.
Peter Jackson's LotR was made at the exact time in human history that the series could be made. It was a nearly perfect adaptation and we'll never see another like it.
eh I dont think so, I think we could see other big series adapted properly, however older cult stories will have a much harder time getting adaptions without changes. The MCU changed Hollywoods view, but I dont think the MCU can stand up much longer and it will fade into obscurity as a new model of making money takes over.
@@checker297 Well, looks like Amazon will buy the LOTR film rights
Sure, tell that to the elves who died in the Helm's Deep. And all the oliphants Legolas got to skate on.
Half the reason is because there’s nothing else good left to adapt
@@checker297 I really liked "the girl with the dragon tattoo" but they never made the second and third films because $240+ at the box office was apparently not successful enough -_-
“It felt only natural to us that an adaptation of Tolkien’s work would reflect what the world actually looks like.”
- Lindsey Weber, E.P. Amazon's LOTR Series, Vanity Fair (Feb. 2022)
"There are certainly themes Tolkien felt were important. We made a promise to ourselves at the beginning of the process that we weren't going to put any of our own politics, our own messages or our own themes into these movies. What we were trying to do was to analyse what was important to Tolkien and to try to honour that. In a way, were trying to make these films for him, not for ourselves."
- Peter Jackson, Interview with GreenCine (Dec. 2002)
These showrunners would screw up adapting "Old McDonald's Farm" into a TV series, pandering to Twitter twits by gender-swapping chickens to roosters and cows to bulls, and race-swapping brown cows to Frisian cows. EIEIO would probably end up being a racial slur, too.
The same lazy garbage they always roll out. It's completely meaningless.
This is perfect.
What amazing contrast. Wild.
Welp... I'm out. Don't think it sounds promising.
It’s hard to get disappointed when you’re not expecting anything
And yet somehow they manage to do it
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Ah, yes Dewey's quote from Malcolm in the Middle: "I expect nothing and I'm still disappointed."
Last time i was positively surprised was The Man from Uncle reboot...sedond was Tron: Legacy...two times in a decade is something.
Because it's intentional
Couldn't have said it better.
christ, we are unbearably lucky that Peter Jackson's trilogy came out back in 2001-03.
Actually nerds ragged against the changes he made from the books on Usenet forums.
@@ANTIStraussian They still are.
@@reidmason2551 incels gonna incel
@@ANTIStraussian There's never going to adaptation of any medium to any medium that will have 100% approval of existing fans. Purist will find fault in anything. But I knew one such purist, he still went to see every single LotR movie several times, because quote: "They are good movies".
Peoples were raging just as much about Peter Jackson on the internet than they are about this now.
I’m Latino, and never once did I wonder, why are there no Mexicans in this. Cause I understood this was supposed to be medieval Europe and stuff. And I only really cared about the awesome characters.
I love how the Smoke-Screen is seen through now and less and less people
are even held back by silly idea 'You criticize a movie that has non-white actors in it?!
Youre RACIST-AS-FLUFF!!'
Agree
then you should have no problem with europe wanting to remain white
As an Indian, I never wondered why can't we have brown superheroes. I just focused on what the superheroes stood for in terms of their character and principles. And how they handled the issues. I don't get why the world is regressing more as the society is becoming better and focusing on things like skin colour and gender.
@@rileybobbert6527 And there it is. It always has to be a nutcase from one end of the extreme. The extremes on both sides, one which you obviously belong to, are disgusting. I pity you.
As a bearded woman I'm hugely offended that they removed the beards from the female dwarfs.
THIS! I remember distinctly that dwarves in LotR lore are PROUD of their beards, regardless of gender. That they're praised for their intricate braiding styles, and that is a skill that the dwarves community cherish and admire.
And yet now, they have a clean shaven dwarf, who is telling us: Yo girls, don't conform to the patriarchy standard of beauty!
Even though Gimli
once mentioned that there is no difference between men and women dwarves. That you could date one without knowing their gender until the dwarf decide to tell or show you (and this doesn't satisfy the lgbtq group???)
What is this? The next gender revolution? Are they trying to demand that next, for women to be powerful and independent, we should all shave our hair? (This is getting hypocritical, when women on tik tok are happily showing off their hairy armpits)
And hey, better yet, cancel and doxx all those hair braiding tutorials, how dare women waste their time on looking pretty on weddings and parties when we have better things to do?!
The first thing I thought when I saw the dwarf lady picture: WHERE is her BEARD?
@Robert Monroe Yes.
For all the shoe-horning inclusiveness of modern television, they missed such a huge friggen opportunity to have gender crossing norms in the dwarves as an IN-WORLD option. Blows my mind.
Show us the dwarf women beards you cowards.
I hope you didn’t spring out of the ground to make that comment!!!!
I really dislike that image of Galadriel with the sword and armour. It's appalling disservice to an amazing character. In the books and film trilogy you don't doubt for a second her power and presence. The way she commands respect from elves, dwarves, men and wizards. She's an absolute force and she's at times rather frightening. Makes it believable that the enemy would fear her. Obviously writers today don't have any kind of nuance so in order to portray that strength she has to be an action hero like Wonder Woman.
her power were more like radiation you knew she was affecting you but you could n t do something(look what she done to gimli)...alot more scary than a real threat you can do something about...she is supposed to be on part with sauron how could that happenin a fight with a sword ( you get star wars jedi scene ) that is not tolkien
I was one of the extras on LOTR supplied by the NZDF between fun trips to the tropics. When we were selected for our roles as extras it came down to this, if you were fair skinned you were Gondorian, if you were fair skinned and could ride a horse you were Rohirrim and if you were dark skinned you were an Orc. I wanted to be an Orc as it sounded like they had a lot more fun apart from laying in a field pretending to be dead for hours. At no point did any of us think racism was at work, its just what the roles called for.
The image of you pretending to be dead for hours gave me a much-needed chuckle. 👍 Filming isn't nearly as glamorous as we might think!
Also let's admit the orks are the most badass looking guys of the entire saga 🤟🏻
@@mattmoves5920 and an opportunity to wear prosthetics and makeup. Becoming a professional cosplayer for a while in short
I wouldve been great urukhai
Let's be real here, the Orks were *clearly* having the most fun out of everyone there.
“- Gimli: It's true you don't see many Dwarf-women. And in fact, they are so alike in voice and appearance, that they are often mistaken for Dwarf-men.
- Aragorn: It's the beards...
- Gimli: And this in turn has given rise to the belief that there are no Dwarf-women, and that Dwarves just spring out of holes in the ground! Which is, of course, ridiculous.”
Tolkien’s son dedicated his life to his fathers work, and rightfully protected it from disgusting cash grabs.
And of course, the minute he kicks the bucket, the rest of the descendants aka”The Tolkien Estate” sell out.
Disgusting!
Yep. That was inevitable. The Tolkien Estate greed, whoever "they" are, just saw dollar signs (pound signs?) and just the principles of the Tolkien family, and good people in general, get flushed down the toilet.
@@spasjt At least they limited the material to the second age.
@@Mitjitsu Doesn't make me feel better. They have the rights, or at least partial rights, and will never let them go.
@@Mitjitsu Thats the weird part. Amazon doesn't have the rights to The Silmarillion which describes the events of the second age in part 4 so they basically wrote some fan fiction and called it LoTR.
Woke culture destroys EVERYTHING it touches...