Yeah, as a German I think you are spot on. Thanks for speaking the truth, Germans don't mind that. I read an article from a German journalist visiting California, when she was in a bar, someone approached her and asked if the seat next to her at the bar was taken. She did her German thing and said "No, it is free" and then just drank her beer without interacting with the person, who was really offended. :D I think it is liberating to not have to make a fuss about people you don't know and only be nice to people if it is genuine because you know and like them, but well, I am German. :D
For me as a german, a person who is overly friedly to everybody is suspicous. We germans know, if someone is friedly to you without a reason, he wants something from you.
She said that this is sad and false. Makes life harder and germans unpopular, worldwide. I think it did not help, all love us anyway. Was a joke. Actually, I still feel comfortable with our attitude.
+mkmm60 Ich spreche auch Deutsch, so habe ich das nicht gemeint xD "traurig, diese Denke. Und falsch." klingt wie etwas, das aus dem Goole Übersetzer kommt. Aber trotzdem danke.
Me as a German I also feel that the German language is more "serious". Structures are sometimes more complicated and German is, compared to English not the best language for small talk. It's also for pop songs: The most simple message in English can sound really great, but if you translate into German it sounds stupid. For example, for me I find it much more easy to chit chat when talking in English than in German. Don't know how others feel about it. So I think the culture creates somehow the language but also the language is your frame of interaction and if you are bilingual you may notice that speaking a different language opens up totally new worlds and ways.
I'm totally with you! As a German with almost fluent English knowledge, I often use English words to describe things. They often make it more clear, than the German phrase. Eg. weird is much more clear than “komisch”, “eigenartig “ or something else. 😏 And as you said - it sounds nicer... 😊
At least some of the clerks in germany don't seem to get that they're civil servants. They do that to germans also btw. Your're not alone in your struggle with the "immigration office" or any official office here. Just stay friendly and never ever give up. That's how i get them most of the time. Persistence :)
@@DP-tf7qb I recon coming from nz the adjusting to the german "Filz" must be extra-hard. The nz civil servants i remember to be quite chaotic but they got stuff done. With a smile. Not the "i don't know you but i hate everybody"-greeting you normally get at the "Amtsstuben" in germany ;)
@@peterpain6625 Ah, I don't know about the ones in NZ... I do know everything is nice and relaxed there, so it doesn't surprise me... but the UK, Spain and now Germany seem to be known from problematic civil servants :D
NZ has about 4 million citizens with about 17.5 people per km². Germany is populated much denser with 80 million people and 230 per km². Germany's physical size is only about 25% bigger than NZ. So more people are competing for resources, jobs, money, etc. It also means more suspicion against others in general and more crime. So I don't find it very astounding that Germans are more closed and "backstand-ish". Im not a psychologist but to me it seems to be a totally natural behavoiur - pyscologically spoken.
Germany is in the middle of a continent. There obviously is no "we settlers no matter who we are have to stand together against nature, natives, whatever"-mentality like in the former colonies. Strangers and new people in general are automatically suspicious, even more so if they act unnaturally friendly.
And what is the excuse for the friendliness in the USA. OK, now let's hear about the superficial Amis. Interesting no one says that about the New Zealanders.
Doesn't make sense because: why are Finns usually even more reserved than Germans? And Northern Germans more than Southern Germans? Finland is as big as Germany, but has only 6 million inhabitants. Northern Germany too has less inhabitants than Southern Germany.
Germans prefer to have initially a let's say critical or sceptical distance for first observing the situation. They might be interested in you, but they do not start, some are ashamed regarding their english skills until someone or something is breaking the ice. That's how german describe the situation, not melting the ice - cause breaking means becoming active, inviting for a drink, dance, talk ... and then everything changes like that for you at the beginning uncomfortable birthday party might have gone forever with a lot of fun. And a smile does not break such ice, it may even get worser, cause why is she smiling if I am not close to her? But after this dancing night everything regarding these girls should have changed in the opposite, they wozld have companied you to the immigration bureau speaking for you. Great video and truely described observations.
Hi Antoinette! My boyfriend and I very recently moved to Baden Württemberg from NZ and I can so relate to what you talk about in your videos! We moved here on somewhat of a whim because a family member who has lived here for quite a few years suggested it. We only decided to move 5 months ago and we've been here for 3 months so far! BIG CHANGE for us but we thought we should do it while we're young and enjoy the adventure! So happy to stumble across your channel and see another kiwi who's done it all before. We're both still feeling that 'overcompensating with friendliness and don't hate us because we don't speak German' vibe!! Lovely to see your friendly face!
Wow what an awesome adventure for you guys! You're not actually living too far away from us, we are right next to Würzburg in Unterfranken. It's so great to hear from another like minded Kiwi living in Germany and i'm so pleased you can relate to some of the things i've talked about.
I am German. I do not Know where i head it but It is something like: "It is hard to get a German friend, but when you do you have a friend for a lifetime". I think we can work on the first part and hope the second is right :)
Kia Ora! I’m another kiwi living in Germany- moved here a year ago and I have experienced a lot of what you say! I just came across your channel and I absolutely love you vlogs. Thank you so much for sharing xx
When i moved to Germany, i did not have to do much adjusting in terms of social expectations. Germans are not as welcoming towards strangers but warm up fairly quickly - if they see a reason to do so. When they do - i feel like they become personal a lot faster than at home. In my experience - there is very little small talk in Germany - you either have a talk, or you don't. But even that depends on the age of the person. In Germany it happens much more often that a complete stranger turns around and just asks me like "Wo kommen denn si her?" not with malice, but with curiosity. -
If you are considering a culture like a language, than cultures use different words for the same thing. For example in some areas in germany there apply the rule, saying nothing is a compliment, because there are no complaints. But if you are from a culture, which makes compliments using many words, then this silent compliment seems no compliment. But this german will consider your compliment full of words as chatty and dishonest. But both sides are meaning the same.
I am working at a laboratory in Germany and I got an american coworker and she ist like the most friendly person I ever met. Everytime I cross her, she is smiling at me and asking how everything ist going. I think it's pretty nice but for me as a german it would be really strange, if strangers would be so nice
Yeah, sums it up pretty good ^^ I heard that pretty often and we project a certain picture of "unfriendlyness" because of that. But it`s really more because it`s... "harder to come close" to us. To "strangers" we often might be polite and formal. Or just formal ^^ Like "bureaucracy is imperative" :D. Also often it depends more on efficiency than politeness in business or departments. Many had similiar experiences or impressions as you have Antoinette :) But it`s nice to hear you made it through these "front" :) We are maybe just... a bit reluctant and reserved ^^ It`s not meant in a bad way, more towards... "hesitant til you know someone better". :) I like your vids, thumbsup! - regards from a german
A saying in Germany goes: "You should have eaten together a pound of salt before you make a stranger a friend." I think, this describes the rather reticent attitude of many Germans very well.
It's a good thing the saying uses the Imperial System and not the metric one.... eating a kilo of salt would take twice as much! .... anyway I can completely relate to Emily's feelings even though I'm not from NZ. But I also had the feeling that some Germans are aware of how difficult it is for foreigners to mingle and a lot of local students in the German univeristy I attended organised activities so that foreign students like me could meet other students during our Erasmus year.
Actually it's not really using the imperial system - German has "das Pfund", which translates as pound, but it's just 500g :) I've mainly heard it relating to food (ein Viertelpfund Butter = 125 g / half a block of butter, etc), and I'd say that older people probably use it more often.
+Danica Christin I would love to hear your experiences as a German living in Australia. I lived in Melbourne for two years and I have to say they that NZ and Aust are very similar culture wise. I've been really enjoying your videos by the way, even if I haven't had time to comment on them. Your Australian accent is very impressive, I thought you were actually Australian when I first heard you!
Cool, I lived in Melbourne, too! When where you there? I lived there between 2010 and 2013, went to Deakin uni. It was difficult for me to adjust as I had to "force" being so positive all the time, it took a while until it came naturally to be. Australian and New Zealand people are really great though, always so nice. I'm glad you enjoyed my videos! Thank you! I was worried what you'd think of my after your "Germans with weird English accents" video haha. I don't force my accent, it comes naturally to me. Funny thing is that I can speak German with an English/Australian sounding accent but it's difficult for me to force a strong German accent in English.
+Danica Christin You have a natural talent for accents and definitely don't sound weird. I lived in Melbs between 2006 and 2008 and lived in St Kilda west and then Prahran. I have such fond memories of that city 😊
I think migrating in an other society ist never easy. You are leaving your culture, your comfort zone and your personal (fallback) network as freinds and family. So you probably could do this video with Germans in NZ, too. Usually assimilation makes it much easier. Which means: In rome do as the Romans do. And iI think, the immigration officers an the immigration process in NZ are very serious, too. If not more serious than in Germany. And yes, the Germans don't seem to be as friendly as people especially from anglo-saxon coutries are used to. But I (as a German) don't see "smiling to everybody" and having superficial smalltalk (with people you don't know) as frindliness if you do it to everybody or if you are doing it because you are getting paid for it (referring to the staff in shops etc.). In Germany you can be sure, if somebody is really friendly to you he either really likes you (what could end in a real german friendship) or he wants something from you ;-) Why? Because we are Germans. We are efficient...
I'm 31 and moving to Germany from Namibia (Africa) this year to live with my German husband. I'm quite nervous about adjusting to the German culture and traditions. I love your videos as they really help me know what to expect and I feel a little less anxious and feeling like I know nothing about the country but you make it a little easier for me. I know it will definitely be different experiencing it first hand but somehow you calm my nerves with all your information. Thank you so much for your videos :)
You are so welcome! All the best of luck with the big move to Germany, you have a very exciting adventure ahead of you. It makes me so happy to hear that my videos are helping you in some way 😘
Honestly I like the german way. I do not like this "friendlyness" many cultures display. When i am friendly with a person it is because I like the person and not because we just met. I have the feeling it means more here when you smile and when you make a friendly gesture, when you do not do it at every occasion.
Thanks for your honesty! You are so very welcome in Germany! We need more people like you who are able to see the reality more differentiated - and bring more warmth of your beautiful country to us. But in general you are right. Germans are more cautious, but try to find nice people like everywhere in the world. The best thing you can do is to focus on the positive aspects of this country otherwise you won't feel comfortable any longer. Germany has changed a lot in the last 30 years, so when I came back home to my country after 24 years abroad I plan to leave...
It is funny, my husband has such an easy time with German immigration - maybe it was because we were married for a while. It literally took 10 minutes to get his paperwork. I had a lot of a harder time here in the US with immigration - plus it costs so much here. Oh well. Blessings!
Every time I hear people talking about this "closedness" of Germans I promise myself not to be like that but to be open minded towards strangers, be confident and friendly and all these things that I love about New Zealanders. Next minute I find myself back again in this old kind of behaviour. I don't know what it is but it's somehow engrained in us. I think you nailed it with your last statement: it's just a different mindset, different way to approach things. The true nature of a person is defined by other things.
Here, we usually behave reserved to people we doesn't know or doesn't know much. It's usually a polite behaviour to keep a distance. That doesn't intend rejection. Good to know you've adjusted. I like to watch your videos and get to know how you feel in our country. Perhaps you could say some words in German in your next video, I would love to hear this :)
+Canis Lupus Dingo So pleased you're enjoying my videos, thanks for watching and taking time to comment. I actually plan on making a video speaking just Deutsch in the near future 😊
Hey Antoinette, This video is so interesting. My boyfriend is from New Zealand and our story is kind of similar. I was in NZ on the working holiday visa and after I got home my boyfriend came to Germany and applied for the working holiday visa in Germany. Our experience was just the same, they said the visa doesn’t exist and e would need to go back home to apply for a visa. We really had to stand up for it until it finally worked and we found someone who knew about the visa conditions. It is interesting to hear that you had the same problems.
So interesting to hear that your boyfriend had such a similar experience with immigration here, I thought maybe they just didn't like me. It sounds like we have so much in common!
I reckon some "Ämter" just tell you that what you want doesn't exist when they don't know how to do it. I tried to get an apostille for my police certificate, and it was more work than the rest of my NZ residency application combined! I found New Zealand immigration to be incredibly friendly and helpful. When I once rang my case manager for updates, he could even tell me despite their office having no computers that day because they had to move buildings due to an earthquake! As far as the NZ friendliness is concerned, I'd love to meet in the middle. Germans are often very serious and it's super hard to make a connection. Also when it comes to public transport, there is nothing more rude than a crowd of commuters!! On the other hand, I find constantly having to make smalltalk to be really hard work and awkward here in NZ (I've lived in Christchurch and Wellington for 4 years). I feel very rude when someone asks how I am and all I say is "good thanks", because when you are asked the same question in German, people actually want to know the answer, good or bad. Whereas in NZ, why even bother asking if you don't want to actually know anyway, or aren't prepared to actually help out if the other person isn't well? I highly doubt the person at the supermarket checkout cares how I am. Also if the checkout person at Farmers asks me what I have planned for the weekend, it feels very intrusive to me. Then I have noticed that in some areas, it's the opposite! I grew up in a small town, and I knew all our neighbours, when one of them went to hospital for surgery, we'd drop in a card, etc. Fences are 1.5m high at most, and you'd great your neighbours on their balconies when you're in your garden. At my in-laws' place on the other hand (they live just outside of Christchurch), everyone has those 2.5m high fences (rather walls!), they've never even met some of their direct neighbours, and most people don't like two-storey houses because then people could see in their garden. Also the classic one: When you're in a sports club in Germany, usually the showers are just one big room with shower heads around the walls (gender segregated of course). You all just have a chat while you get changed/are in the shower... No big deal... at the gym here (university gym in Wellington), so many people go into their little stalls with all their stuff to get changed out of fear someone else might see their undies! People even have a mild panic sometimes seeing family members in their undies by accident. It's family! Your dad wiped your butt as a child, where is the big deal if he sees you in undies :D That sort of thing.
About Germans being really closed and cold, I'm from northern Germany (pretty close to the border to Denmark) and I had to move for university but I still live in the north (Schleswig Holstein) and people who grew up south of Hamburg which is not really that far away from my home constantly tell me that people from northern Germany are so cold and that we distance ourselves so much. So I guess the further north you the colder the people are but we ourselves don't usually know that until we are told by other people
Hi. Admittedly, the Germans are generally much more clandestine than other cultures. But it is also the region. In the Rhineland (for example Cologne / Bonn) we Germans are much more cordial. If you know a German, the first thing he consider is what kind of person you are and whether it is worth investing in you. Sounds odd, but is so. A German is primarily looking for a long-lasting, perhaps even lifelong friendship. And if you are a friend of yours, a German will always be behind you at the same time if you have problems and solve them together with you. My tip: Just go to a German and make the contact. The German will not run away.
For me as a German it's pretty interesting how foreigners look at us . I often heard about our defensive mentality in front of strangers but never felt like this. Last week a good friend from Indonesia told me nearly the same experience like you did. So there must be something true on this opinions 😃
So I realize I'm like 2 years late to the party, but I have to say- most of the things you say are completely true. But when me and my friends meet someone new (especially foreign) its so exciting and we connect with them immediately. We want to make them feel welcome. So I feel really bad for how it went for you at the beginning...
Well: about having a "front": pls try to visit the north of germany (only now, 'cause now you've grown to be as tough as you are, today LMAO I am from a small village a little northwest of Hamburg. Born and raised. Now, here is a true story about why I most times will prefer my bike or car before travelling on a train: Many, many years ago, after going to work on my bike; I had to use the train to get to my job. My bike had broken down. And it needed a little while to repair it. I had to take the S-Bahn, where most seats are arranged like 4 seats on each side, fronting each other.(2 and 2). Now, when I'm walking along in our village, or down our street, you meet like one or at least few people at a time. My habit is greeting 'em. And if it's only a nod. So I entered this train that 1st morning, sitting down with 3 other people and said "guten Morgen." No reaktion at all. I had to realise: "O.K.: here, you are on a train.Maybe "guten Morgen" is considered molesting, here." *sigh* Since then, there have been many times when I had to use railway. And' I've met some really nice people, too. But the chances are few. *smiles*
In addition: riding my bike down a lonesome highway up in sweden in '88, an elderly woman, walking down that highway was waving at me. Not to warn me about danger down that road. Not for help. She was greeting me! Back in those days bikers where just a**holes to most germans, still. Not comparable to our situation today, where in every family you'll find at least one, who owns a motorbike.
As a German I still feel alien in here after my year in NZ. It was sich a culture shock coming back and everyone is just so grumpy. I miss NZ so bad and it's gettin worse every day. If only the visa situation wasn't that hard.
Oh my god yes I had the same problem with the immigration office. We had to go there 3 times and they wanted us to come a fourth time. They only gave me the visa after a quick rage of my German friend :D
The rudeness to outsiders is generally a common Eastern European/Slav mentality, so people from Western Europe/USA/UK need to give Germans more time to warm up. Good luck!
I do not smile anymore at Germans on the street because a few times I've had very negative reactions - scowls, and someone actually even said something really insulting to me! Never again. Luckily, I go back to my habit of smiling at people when I'm in Canada.
First off: don't think of yourselves as un-likeable. Nothing you have done until now could make me believe I'd not like you as a person. You seem to be such a nice, lovely person. Second: never appologize for honesty. If it is not meant to insult, or anger others, then screw those who get angry at you. With you I am certain it is not meant to insult or anger others. Yes, Germans tend to be stand-offish, at least in the beginning. Small talk is still considered a bit of a waste of time by many people. Like somebody said below, many cultures require certain steps to become friendly with each other. The German culture seems to have some different steps, or at least in a different sequence, towards achieving that 'friendship' than many anglophone cultures. When something happens outside of our own, culturally expected sequence, we are subconsciously disturbed by it. When something totally unexpected happens, ie something which is not even included in our culture's sequence of steps, we tend to become not only disturbed, but outright angry, or downcast. Just as a little side-note with a little cheeky, risqué touch. Just after World War 2 the American soldiers stationed in Great Britain, and in Germany, were very surprised by how 'easy' it was to get some of the young women to become, well, let's say 'well aquainted' with them after a very short time. Some time later this strange effect was analyzed. It was found that in the USA a small, peckish kiss on the cheek for a greeting was somewhere at number 7 or 8 in the sequence of deepening a friendship in the USA, while it was very close to a near 13 or 14 of 15 steps (ie nearly sleeping with someone) in Great Britain and Germany. The young women in the UK and Germany were accustomed to a lot slower 'advancement' of the steps, and in a different order. But when the US soldiers were so 'fresh and forthcoming' to advance beyond certain steps in the sequence of 'friendliness', the women's subconscious told them 'Hey, we are already at closing the deal for marriage, right?' so they were also much more willing to advance their 'relationship' to something a lot more physical than the US soldiers had even hoped they would achieve. This in turn astonished the US soldiers that the young women, who had seemed so prudish, stand-off-ish just a few minutes before (ie squirming at a light kiss on the cheek), suddenly seemed so willing to advance muuuuch quicker than the soldier had expected. End result: US soldiers were really astonished about the young 'Fräuleins' in Germany 'putting out' so easily. These women were not really 'fast and easy'; they just were not accustomed to the US sequence of courtship and friendliness. The same probably applies for less direct friendliness. Other order, other sequence, maybe even different list entries in our own personal list of 'what to do and epxect to get someone to open up'. All of these change our subconscious expectations, and make us vulnerable when things don't work out as we are used to. Don't worry, you will find the right combination and sequence. I think you are already most of the way there from what I hear from you.
I think you're cleary over interpreting this whole " smiling thing". Just because someone doesn't smile all the time doesn't mean he or she is not happy or doesn't like you. Its more about being polite and talking in a friendly way. don't be so focussed on facial expressions
Interesting video, and I see from what perspective you've experienced it so. If I may, just few notes from my perspective, as European - there is NO such a thing like "they didn't want me in their country" when it comes to immigration office :) They are doing just the job they are paid for - to decide weather you are or not eligible to get the visa you are requiring. Don't take that that much personal :) Second - excluding Italians, all Europeans are like a bit of suspicious when it comes to interpersonal relationships with people they just met, including small talks and occasional smiling. And that's why we don't get robbed easily when we are somewhere on vacation :)) Maybe it sound rude or impolite, but we don't see the purpose of giving that much of attention on someone that we are just passing by, for instance. Our mask of coldness is our mask of protection :) I can't even count how many times I've saved Americans and Australians of being robbed because they just trust easily to people they just met. Don't do that, that is my personal advice. And again - it's nothing personal. Let's call it a cultural clash :) You have a very nice family Antoinette, and I'm enjoying you videos. Greeting from an European living in Bavaria, too :) xxxx
You are obviously confusing "coldness" with an unwillingness on the part of most Germans to accept superficiality with friendship. Your own narration of your experience with the immigration official makes that very clear. Friendship is something that does not happen overnight; but once a German offers you his/her friendship, it is sincerely meant, and it is understood to last. The most important step on the part of any foreigner to make friends with Germans is to learn the language. It not only helps you understand Germans better, but it also shows the Germans that you are sincere in your effort at getting to know them.
Yes, a lot of Germans in the beginning are very closed off. But at least I know what I get there. Somebody is nice to me? They actually mean it. Kiwis? I love you guys, i love staying here, but sometimes I just dont know "are they nice to be just not come over as rude or are they actually liking me?" I cannot completely gauge NZ levels of "niceness" and it freaks me out a bit. Plus, someyimes the niceness feels a little bit too personal space invading. Amusingly enough I (the German) am the outgoing, friendly person in my relationship while nny partner (the kiwi) is the jaded closed off guy. --- and yes, the diffrrences in that front we ( kiwis and Germans) present is ultimately just the first layer. There are a lot of kiwis i have found to be actually as nice as they present themselves.
I have lived in Japan for quite a long time and when I came back to Germany I realized just how cold and rude a lot of germans can be. Like one time I called my insurance to check if they got my letter and the guy on the phone was SO ridiculously rude and mean I actually started crying and I had to hang up because I couldn't keep on talking.
I totally understand where you are coming from. When I traveled to Berlin by myself for a week, I felt totally alone and sad. I yearned for interaction with others that never came, unless I was being chastised by someone for accidentally stepping in the bike lane. Though I really tried to NOT step in the lanes...I found the lanes to be hard to decipher from time to time and especially at night as the lanes were sometimes on the street and sometimes off the street. I'd NEVER recommend that anyone travel within Germany by themselves unless they are really looking to be alone and use the time to be introspective. I can totally relate to what you say about what's normal for me in terms of connecting with others, especially strangers. Now I fully expect to be trashed by replies as I was before when sharing this story in a comment section of another video.
Germany sounds little different from New Zealand if your an immigrant. I arrived in time for "Punch a Pom" campaign. A lot of British women were terrified and went home taking their husbands. Who like me were indifferent to it. Unless your offered a cracking job with a company you know best stay home!
Being from Austria (close enough to Germany ;) ) I visited the US once and was really weirded out. I don't know how to describe it (don't want to sound mean), but everything just felt so superficial and dishonest. I guess here in Austria (and Germany) people make a strong distinction between personal relationships and professional interactions (professional in a very wide sense, including buying something, going to a restaurant, interacting with persons in an office, even asking someone for directions or the time). In the latter case none is interested to talk about personal stuff. I don't want to drag out the german stereotype of it not being "efficient" to small talk, but it's not to the point either. And here in Austria and Germany most of the times what you hear is what is meant.
superdau it’s not we are just a friendly warm people and like to be polite and smile and say hello to strangers because it’s just nice, and it’s not just about you or me it’s about showing yourself friendly to others even if you are having a bad day, and if others are having a bad day a friendly hello and a smile can make their day a little nicer too. We also just say how are you as a greeting like hello, it’s not meant always as a question more of a statement. Just because its it in your culture to show yourself friendly doesn’t mean countries that do are superficial and fake. Goes both ways.
I actually didn't know we have a work-and-holiday-visa here... xD I didn't think or system of work (bad English, I know) was good for this kind of thing. It's not very flexible, you nearly always need a qualification (proofed by a papertrail^^), things like that.
This is meant to be a reciprocal visa but I agree the German system isn't made for it. But it's so unfair that soooooooo many Germans are coming to NZ on this visa, taking jobs which our kids need yet we as New Zealanders can't really do the same
Antoinette, could you please tell me what normally a Kiwi does when it comes to saying goodbye to somebody, instead of the German shaking of hands? I as a German can't think of a more appropriate way of saying goodbye. I feel that just saying the phrase "goodbye" without any gesture that is some sort of topping, something is lacking there to me.
@@ajrwilde14 Thank you Alice for your answer. Please tell me, high 5 for saying goodbye, really? I would think high 5 is rather the gesture after having won a match or sth.? I'm very German, I suppose.
@@ichmemyself6098 it's weird in Britain as well how much the NZs and OZs love the high 5, some of them do it all the time, if in doubt just do it and I'm sure they'll respond positively
I disagree with the high 5 haha... Just wave and say a happy goodbye with a smile. If you know the person well, it wouldn't be uncommon to give them a hug. I'm British, so the culture is similar to NZ, but I'd say NZ is even less formal. I think for Germans, trying to smile more in these situations would go a long way in an Anglo-Celtic country. In my opinion, Germans (and other cultures too) can come across as hostile due to the lack of "courtesy smiling"... does that make sense?
Funny... over 6 years ago I came to NZ on a HWV and after 3 months met my Kiwi partner here. Immigration NZ was a nightmare to deal with as well but we got there in the end. Smiling polite people are still something that makes me cringe as a Euro living in New Zealand. Even though I now smile a bit more I still think it's well overdone and like you say a front. Most of the time it's as fake as the "oh hey how you going?". There seems to be no substance to it. I also don't think you're more trusting but maybe more naive. There's only 4mil NZrs and Europe is huge so I'm not gonna pretend I like/care with every person, only the ones that are worth it. The Kiwi warmth is short-lived and the friendships shallow. I still feel like I don't fit in here, still don't feel like Kiwis like me though I have strong friendships at home and click instantly with expats and just hang out with them, 90% do the same. When it comes to friendship most Kiwis were a lot of work and not worth it in the end. They don't let you too close, hardly ever talk about deep important subjects and for a Euro that just looks like they're keeping a distance because that's as far as they want to take the friendship. The scene with the girls at the party that you mentioned - oh my god I can so relate! Try making friends with these entitled princesses over here (not saying you're on of them). Nobody pulls you onto the dance floor, just look at you weirdly and have a short superficial conversation then that's it, you're done. It's really hard for people living in NZ as well, the 'if you don't like it go home' attitude is a real thing and you will never feel like this in your own country as a New Zealander.
i know you're not explicitly saying it, but it's true: germans could get their act together and start being more welcoming and friendly to strangers. it doesn't hurt. in fact, not only the opposite person may not feel as rejected, but it's just a nice feeling to be kind. i hate it when fellow germans try to hide their insecurities behind reservedness, and i actually hate it about myself. ironically, it took me a relocation to austria to realize what it feels like to be on the other end of the stick. i can only speak for my experiences in vienna (and from what i hear it's different in other parts of the country), but it's somewhat frustrating how people here make me feel out of place and not belong. to be fair: i think a lot of it is just owed to different customs. eg when i would go for a run in germany and pass by other runners, one would say "hi!", smile (yes, it happens!) or at least nod at one another. in vienna this has never happened to me (in fact, i felt really weird doing it but not getting a reaction when i just moved here, so i stopped). still, germans should stop using customs and culture as an excuse for being jerks and travel and experience other cultures more. that way they might learn a thing or two about themselves and striving to be the best person they can be.
I have to laugh about the " smiling " its not only New Zealanders who smile I think almost anywhere in the world people smile . . except in Germany , I have lived here in Germany for 15yrs and when I first came I used to tell my friends back home that I was not sure if smiling was a foreign language or it was illegal . I don't think they have ever been told smiling makes you happy , happily I must say after 15yrs there are more smiling faces here in Germany now or maybe its because I know more people . A smile costs you nothing but it can change someones day , come on Germany I dare you to try just one smile a day , be spontaneous you live in such a fantastic country .
So sorry to hear that you had such a hard time with immigration. But be assured - german "BEamte" are usually not very friendly,not even to Germas. You should come to the Saarland. We're great small-talkers :) No big cities here, and we're close to France which might also be a reason for the warmth of the people around here.
You are totally right, Germans are pretty closed and Kiwis are so warm and friendly. I miss New Zealand. Being back in Germany makes me realize how much I miss NZ and the really friendly nice and welcoming people.
Antoinette, as I have already expressed in previous comments, I think that you are a likeable person. However, you need to understand that it's not the job of Germans to make immigrants feel welcome. Germans don't even make fellow Germans feel welcome. So, why should Germans make immigrants feel welcome? Also, German authorities are often very mean and smug towards German people. So, why should German authorities treat you better than us? It's not just you who has the impression that German authorities make up new rules as they please in order to torment people. Most Germans feel that way too. Basically, what I'm trying to say is this: When Germans are cold or mean towards you, then that's usually just a form of equal treatment. So, don't take it personally and try to appreciate the fact that you are treated equally.
Why not move back to New Zealand? It is obvious that you are missing your 'old' friends from the past, with a closeness, perceived to grow stronger the longer you are apart. You also miss you mum, don't you? Also consider that German authorities are currently dealing with an influx of a million plus refugees/economic migrants (versus a quota of 750 per annum in NZ) and that not everyone in these offices will display the warmth and individual devotion you might expect from your family or friends 'back home'. Also, maybe take a break from filming, editing and uploading videos and try to socialise a bit more. Head to a yoga class, attend cooking classes (not that you cannot cook), adopt and walk a dog. And you will meet likeminded people and gradually establish warm relationships that will probably last much longer than those rapid, but often fragile and superficial bonds that are 'so easily' formed in many English speaking countries. I have been ripped off by a number of your NZ countryman & woman, losing my life savings over the last few years. All with warm and smiling faces, initially not even feeling the knives in my back. So all is not well in New Zealand either and people continue to leave to see what else is out there. I also prefer not to be constantly asked 'how I am?' & 'what's up', without being given just a small chance for a brief response. Maybe and after you have returned home, you will miss a touch of the formality and initial distance of us typical Germans when you have resettled in the land of the long white cloud? The way you are talking and judging by a touch of seemingly slightly glazed over eyes, don't agonize for too long, or you will go crazy in the misanthropic Deutschland.
I pretty much agree, I had similar experiences in the US (I lived there for almost 5 years). Although there are a lot of genuinely friendly people there, I also had the impression that a large chunk of the social interactions there seemed VERY superficial to me, which was extremely annoying sometimes. Being distanced and somewhat "cold" at first isn't only a German thing either; many expats from the Anglosphere are complaining about very similar "culture shock issues" when they live in the Netherlands, Austria, Denmark, Sweden, etc.
Don't know about others but your begging for subscribers at the end of your videos is a down turn for me. See if people think you're likeable, then they will subscribe to you anyway, I don't see the need to remind us viewers, as if we're not bright enough to figure out by ourselves.
and now Imagine you are a refugee from Syria. when even white western young girls feel excluded and are treated extremely badly by timmigration office...
This. If this was your experience, imagine how it is for visible minorities, non-western immigrants, and refugees. I immigrated to Germany from a western country, and although I am visibly non-German, I consider myself pretty lucky, especially with a German husband to help out with government stuff. But you are right, Germans are generally very reserved (not quite standoffish).
+Bonjour Yes I often think about this. There is a Syrian refugee family living close to us and I always go out of my way to be extra kind and friendly to them, I can only imagine what they must be going through.
There are tons of Muslims in Germany who are doing fine as well as people from non-Western culture. How do you know that I am not coming from a non-Western culture ? I am of West African descent...
I'm German born living in South Africa for 53 years. ...and I must agree Germans in Germany are very formal people and many have no sense of humour. ....I have changed but the Germans in Germany have not. ...in their general behaviour. ... specially when you first meet them....😅😆😁
Yeah, as a German I think you are spot on. Thanks for speaking the truth, Germans don't mind that. I read an article from a German journalist visiting California, when she was in a bar, someone approached her and asked if the seat next to her at the bar was taken. She did her German thing and said "No, it is free" and then just drank her beer without interacting with the person, who was really offended. :D I think it is liberating to not have to make a fuss about people you don't know and only be nice to people if it is genuine because you know and like them, but well, I am German. :D
For me as a german, a person who is overly friedly to everybody is suspicous. We germans know, if someone is friedly to you without a reason, he wants something from you.
mkmm60ja, traurig, diese Denke. Und falsch. Macht das Leben soviel schwerer und letztlich Deutsche so unbeliebt, weltweit. Tja.
+Simona Talo Google translate ? xD
She said that this is sad and false. Makes life harder and germans unpopular, worldwide. I think it did not help, all love us anyway. Was a joke.
Actually, I still feel comfortable with our attitude.
+mkmm60 Ich spreche auch Deutsch, so habe ich das nicht gemeint xD "traurig, diese Denke. Und falsch." klingt wie etwas, das aus dem Goole Übersetzer kommt. Aber trotzdem danke.
Deutsche sind nicht unbeliebt weltweit.
Me as a German I also feel that the German language is more "serious". Structures are sometimes more complicated and German is, compared to English not the best language for small talk. It's also for pop songs: The most simple message in English can sound really great, but if you translate into German it sounds stupid.
For example, for me I find it much more easy to chit chat when talking in English than in German. Don't know how others feel about it. So I think the culture creates somehow the language but also the language is your frame of interaction and if you are bilingual you may notice that speaking a different language opens up totally new worlds and ways.
+Klangzauberer I think you've brought up a really valid point here!
I'm totally with you! As a German with almost fluent English knowledge, I often use English words to describe things. They often make it more clear, than the German phrase. Eg. weird is much more clear than “komisch”, “eigenartig “ or something else. 😏
And as you said - it sounds nicer... 😊
At least some of the clerks in germany don't seem to get that they're civil servants. They do that to germans also btw. Your're not alone in your struggle with the "immigration office" or any official office here. Just stay friendly and never ever give up. That's how i get them most of the time. Persistence :)
I love how government employees in every country seem to have this reputation... :D
@@DP-tf7qb I recon coming from nz the adjusting to the german "Filz" must be extra-hard. The nz civil servants i remember to be quite chaotic but they got stuff done. With a smile. Not the "i don't know you but i hate everybody"-greeting you normally get at the "Amtsstuben" in germany ;)
@@peterpain6625 Ah, I don't know about the ones in NZ... I do know everything is nice and relaxed there, so it doesn't surprise me... but the UK, Spain and now Germany seem to be known from problematic civil servants :D
NZ has about 4 million citizens with about 17.5 people per km². Germany is populated much denser with 80 million people and 230 per km². Germany's physical size is only about 25% bigger than NZ. So more people are competing for resources, jobs, money, etc. It also means more suspicion against others in general and more crime. So I don't find it very astounding that Germans are more closed and "backstand-ish". Im not a psychologist but to me it seems to be a totally natural behavoiur - pyscologically spoken.
Germany is in the middle of a continent. There obviously is no "we settlers no matter who we are have to stand together against nature, natives, whatever"-mentality like in the former colonies. Strangers and new people in general are automatically suspicious, even more so if they act unnaturally friendly.
Well, the funny thing is, that NZ Crime statistic is worse then germanys :x
And what is the excuse for the friendliness in the USA. OK, now let's hear about the superficial Amis. Interesting no one says that about the New Zealanders.
Doesn't make sense because: why are Finns usually even more reserved than Germans? And Northern Germans more than Southern Germans? Finland is as big as Germany, but has only 6 million inhabitants. Northern Germany too has less inhabitants than Southern Germany.
Germans prefer to have initially a let's say critical or sceptical distance for first observing the situation. They might be interested in you, but they do not start, some are ashamed regarding their english skills until someone or something is breaking the ice. That's how german describe the situation, not melting the ice - cause breaking means becoming active, inviting for a drink, dance, talk ... and then everything changes like that for you at the beginning uncomfortable birthday party might have gone forever with a lot of fun.
And a smile does not break such ice, it may even get worser, cause why is she smiling if I am not close to her?
But after this dancing night everything regarding these girls should have changed in the opposite, they wozld have companied you to the immigration bureau speaking for you.
Great video and truely described observations.
Hi Antoinette! My boyfriend and I very recently moved to Baden Württemberg from NZ and I can so relate to what you talk about in your videos! We moved here on somewhat of a whim because a family member who has lived here for quite a few years suggested it.
We only decided to move 5 months ago and we've been here for 3 months so far! BIG CHANGE for us but we thought we should do it while we're young and enjoy the adventure! So happy to stumble across your channel and see another kiwi who's done it all before. We're both still feeling that 'overcompensating with friendliness and don't hate us because we don't speak German' vibe!!
Lovely to see your friendly face!
Wow what an awesome adventure for you guys! You're not actually living too far away from us, we are right next to Würzburg in Unterfranken. It's so great to hear from another like minded Kiwi living in Germany and i'm so pleased you can relate to some of the things i've talked about.
I am German. I do not Know where i head it but It is something like: "It is hard to get a German friend, but when you do you have a friend for a lifetime". I think we can work on the first part and hope the second is right :)
I am American and have met plenty of Germans visiting here in California and found them to be very friendly.
Kia Ora! I’m another kiwi living in Germany- moved here a year ago and I have experienced a lot of what you say! I just came across your channel and I absolutely love you vlogs. Thank you so much for sharing xx
When i moved to Germany, i did not have to do much adjusting in terms of social expectations. Germans are not as welcoming towards strangers but warm up fairly quickly - if they see a reason to do so. When they do - i feel like they become personal a lot faster than at home.
In my experience - there is very little small talk in Germany - you either have a talk, or you don't. But even that depends on the age of the person. In Germany it happens much more often that a complete stranger turns around and just asks me like "Wo kommen denn si her?" not with malice, but with curiosity. -
If you are considering a culture like a language, than cultures use different words for the same thing.
For example in some areas in germany there apply the rule, saying nothing is a compliment, because there are no complaints. But if you are from a culture, which makes compliments using many words, then this silent compliment seems no compliment. But this german will consider your compliment full of words as chatty and dishonest. But both sides are meaning the same.
Thanks for sharing your experiences. It's hard to open up that much, so it's really appreciated.
I am working at a laboratory in Germany and I got an american coworker and she ist like the most friendly person I ever met. Everytime I cross her, she is smiling at me and asking how everything ist going. I think it's pretty nice but for me as a german it would be really strange, if strangers would be so nice
Appreciated your honesty! As always, another great video 💞
Yeah, sums it up pretty good ^^ I heard that pretty often and we project a certain picture of "unfriendlyness" because of that. But it`s really more because it`s... "harder to come close" to us. To "strangers" we often might be polite and formal. Or just formal ^^ Like "bureaucracy is imperative" :D. Also often it depends more on efficiency than politeness in business or departments. Many had similiar experiences or impressions as you have Antoinette :) But it`s nice to hear you made it through these "front" :) We are maybe just... a bit reluctant and reserved ^^ It`s not meant in a bad way, more towards... "hesitant til you know someone better". :) I like your vids, thumbsup! - regards from a german
A saying in Germany goes: "You should have eaten together a pound of salt before you make a stranger a friend." I think, this describes the rather reticent attitude of many Germans very well.
+Eckard Wolff-Postler Its the first time I've heard this quote 😂
It's a good thing the saying uses the Imperial System and not the metric one.... eating a kilo of salt would take twice as much! .... anyway I can completely relate to Emily's feelings even though I'm not from NZ. But I also had the feeling that some Germans are aware of how difficult it is for foreigners to mingle and a lot of local students in the German univeristy I attended organised activities so that foreign students like me could meet other students during our Erasmus year.
Actually it's not really using the imperial system - German has "das Pfund", which translates as pound, but it's just 500g :) I've mainly heard it relating to food (ein Viertelpfund Butter = 125 g / half a block of butter, etc), and I'd say that older people probably use it more often.
Nie gehört
Acutally in bavaria we say get completely wasted with a person once. You're friends after that.
My favorite UA-cam channel is "Wanted Aventiure" which is hosted by an American living in Germany and her experiences seem to be pretty much the same.
Yes! I love that channel, too. Maybe I should start making videos comparing Australia and Germany haha
+Danica Christin I would love to hear your experiences as a German living in Australia. I lived in Melbourne for two years and I have to say they that NZ and Aust are very similar culture wise.
I've been really enjoying your videos by the way, even if I haven't had time to comment on them. Your Australian accent is very impressive, I thought you were actually Australian when I first heard you!
I love Wanted adventure too!
Cool, I lived in Melbourne, too! When where you there? I lived there between 2010 and 2013, went to Deakin uni. It was difficult for me to adjust as I had to "force" being so positive all the time, it took a while until it came naturally to be. Australian and New Zealand people are really great though, always so nice. I'm glad you enjoyed my videos! Thank you! I was worried what you'd think of my after your "Germans with weird English accents" video haha. I don't force my accent, it comes naturally to me. Funny thing is that I can speak German with an English/Australian sounding accent but it's difficult for me to force a strong German accent in English.
+Danica Christin You have a natural talent for accents and definitely don't sound weird. I lived in Melbs between 2006 and 2008 and lived in St Kilda west and then Prahran. I have such fond memories of that city 😊
I think migrating in an other society ist never easy. You are leaving your culture, your comfort zone and your personal (fallback) network as freinds and family. So you probably could do this video with Germans in NZ, too. Usually assimilation makes it much easier. Which means: In rome do as the Romans do. And iI think, the immigration officers an the immigration process in NZ are very serious, too. If not more serious than in Germany.
And yes, the Germans don't seem to be as friendly as people especially from anglo-saxon coutries are used to. But I (as a German) don't see "smiling to everybody" and having superficial smalltalk (with people you don't know) as frindliness if you do it to everybody or if you are doing it because you are getting paid for it (referring to the staff in shops etc.). In Germany you can be sure, if somebody is really friendly to you he either really likes you (what could end in a real german friendship) or he wants something from you ;-) Why? Because we are Germans. We are efficient...
Endlich sagt es mal einer !!! 🌹😃
I'm 31 and moving to Germany from Namibia (Africa) this year to live with my German husband. I'm quite nervous about adjusting to the German culture and traditions. I love your videos as they really help me know what to expect and I feel a little less anxious and feeling like I know nothing about the country but you make it a little easier for me. I know it will definitely be different experiencing it first hand but somehow you calm my nerves with all your information. Thank you so much for your videos :)
You are so welcome! All the best of luck with the big move to Germany, you have a very exciting adventure ahead of you. It makes me so happy to hear that my videos are helping you in some way 😘
Honestly I like the german way. I do not like this "friendlyness" many cultures display. When i am friendly with a person it is because I like the person and not because we just met. I have the feeling it means more here when you smile and when you make a friendly gesture, when you do not do it at every occasion.
Thanks for your honesty! You are so very welcome in Germany! We need more people like you who are able to see the reality more differentiated - and bring more warmth of your beautiful country to us. But in general you are right. Germans are more cautious, but try to find nice people like everywhere in the world. The best thing you can do is to focus on the positive aspects of this country otherwise you won't feel comfortable any longer. Germany has changed a lot in the last 30 years, so when I came back home to my country after 24 years abroad I plan to leave...
You're doing a great job & your eyes will be opened when your children start school.
Natalia Davydenko : Something very different from what she expects.
Natalia Davydenko : because she's a Kiwi of Dalmatian descent.
It is funny, my husband has such an easy time with German immigration - maybe it was because we were married for a while. It literally took 10 minutes to get his paperwork. I had a lot of a harder time here in the US with immigration - plus it costs so much here. Oh well. Blessings!
+Claudia H. Blanton I'm pleased he had an easy time with it. It definitely makes a huge difference being married to a citizen.
Oh Yes. Especially the region you're living in. But as an almost neighbor if you have an franconian as friend he/she will stay forever.
Every time I hear people talking about this "closedness" of Germans I promise myself not to be like that but to be open minded towards strangers, be confident and friendly and all these things that I love about New Zealanders. Next minute I find myself back again in this old kind of behaviour. I don't know what it is but it's somehow engrained in us.
I think you nailed it with your last statement: it's just a different mindset, different way to approach things. The true nature of a person is defined by other things.
Here, we usually behave reserved to people we doesn't know or doesn't know much. It's usually a polite behaviour to keep a distance. That doesn't intend rejection. Good to know you've adjusted. I like to watch your videos and get to know how you feel in our country. Perhaps you could say some words in German in your next video, I would love to hear this :)
+Canis Lupus Dingo So pleased you're enjoying my videos, thanks for watching and taking time to comment. I actually plan on making a video speaking just Deutsch in the near future 😊
Hey Antoinette,
This video is so interesting. My boyfriend is from New Zealand and our story is kind of similar. I was in NZ on the working holiday visa and after I got home my boyfriend came to Germany and applied for the working holiday visa in Germany. Our experience was just the same, they said the visa doesn’t exist and e would need to go back home to apply for a visa. We really had to stand up for it until it finally worked and we found someone who knew about the visa conditions. It is interesting to hear that you had the same problems.
So interesting to hear that your boyfriend had such a similar experience with immigration here, I thought maybe they just didn't like me. It sounds like we have so much in common!
I reckon some "Ämter" just tell you that what you want doesn't exist when they don't know how to do it. I tried to get an apostille for my police certificate, and it was more work than the rest of my NZ residency application combined! I found New Zealand immigration to be incredibly friendly and helpful. When I once rang my case manager for updates, he could even tell me despite their office having no computers that day because they had to move buildings due to an earthquake!
As far as the NZ friendliness is concerned, I'd love to meet in the middle. Germans are often very serious and it's super hard to make a connection. Also when it comes to public transport, there is nothing more rude than a crowd of commuters!!
On the other hand, I find constantly having to make smalltalk to be really hard work and awkward here in NZ (I've lived in Christchurch and Wellington for 4 years). I feel very rude when someone asks how I am and all I say is "good thanks", because when you are asked the same question in German, people actually want to know the answer, good or bad. Whereas in NZ, why even bother asking if you don't want to actually know anyway, or aren't prepared to actually help out if the other person isn't well? I highly doubt the person at the supermarket checkout cares how I am. Also if the checkout person at Farmers asks me what I have planned for the weekend, it feels very intrusive to me.
Then I have noticed that in some areas, it's the opposite! I grew up in a small town, and I knew all our neighbours, when one of them went to hospital for surgery, we'd drop in a card, etc. Fences are 1.5m high at most, and you'd great your neighbours on their balconies when you're in your garden. At my in-laws' place on the other hand (they live just outside of Christchurch), everyone has those 2.5m high fences (rather walls!), they've never even met some of their direct neighbours, and most people don't like two-storey houses because then people could see in their garden.
Also the classic one: When you're in a sports club in Germany, usually the showers are just one big room with shower heads around the walls (gender segregated of course). You all just have a chat while you get changed/are in the shower... No big deal... at the gym here (university gym in Wellington), so many people go into their little stalls with all their stuff to get changed out of fear someone else might see their undies! People even have a mild panic sometimes seeing family members in their undies by accident. It's family! Your dad wiped your butt as a child, where is the big deal if he sees you in undies :D That sort of thing.
About Germans being really closed and cold, I'm from northern Germany (pretty close to the border to Denmark) and I had to move for university but I still live in the north (Schleswig Holstein) and people who grew up south of Hamburg which is not really that far away from my home constantly tell me that people from northern Germany are so cold and that we distance ourselves so much. So I guess the further north you the colder the people are but we ourselves don't usually know that until we are told by other people
The struggle is real! It was really hard for me to adjust to Australia when I first moved there.
I'm sure you can relate to many things I talk about in reverse!
In Switzerland it's the same. Especially in the villages. In the bigger cities it is easier...
Hi.
Admittedly, the Germans are generally much more clandestine than other cultures.
But it is also the region.
In the Rhineland (for example Cologne / Bonn) we Germans are much more cordial.
If you know a German, the first thing he consider is what kind of person you are and whether it is worth investing in you.
Sounds odd, but is so.
A German is primarily looking for a long-lasting, perhaps even lifelong friendship.
And if you are a friend of yours, a German will always be behind you at the same time if you have problems and solve them together with you.
My tip: Just go to a German and make the contact. The German will not run away.
I totally get this. 100% of this. Big hugs!
For me as a German it's pretty interesting how foreigners look at us . I often heard about our defensive mentality in front of strangers but never felt like this. Last week a good friend from Indonesia told me nearly the same experience like you did. So there must be something true on this opinions 😃
The problem is that many foreigners think it's because they're not German but Germans get treated the same.
So I realize I'm like 2 years late to the party, but I have to say- most of the things you say are completely true. But when me and my friends meet someone new (especially foreign) its so exciting and we connect with them immediately. We want to make them feel welcome. So I feel really bad for how it went for you at the beginning...
Well: about having a "front": pls try to visit the north of germany (only now, 'cause now you've grown to be as tough as you are, today LMAO
I am from a small village a little northwest of Hamburg. Born and raised. Now, here is a true story about why I most times will
prefer my bike or car before travelling on a train:
Many, many years ago, after going to work on my bike; I had to use the train to get to my job. My bike had broken down. And it needed a little while to repair it.
I had to take the S-Bahn, where most seats are arranged like 4 seats on each side, fronting each other.(2 and 2).
Now, when I'm walking along in our village, or down our street, you meet like one or at least few people at a time. My habit is
greeting 'em. And if it's only a nod.
So I entered this train that 1st morning, sitting down with 3 other people and said "guten Morgen." No reaktion at all.
I had to realise: "O.K.: here, you are on a train.Maybe "guten Morgen" is considered molesting, here." *sigh*
Since then, there have been many times when I had to use railway. And' I've met some really nice people, too.
But the chances are few.
*smiles*
In addition: riding my bike down a lonesome highway up in sweden in '88, an elderly woman, walking down that highway was waving at me. Not to warn me about danger down that road. Not for help. She was greeting me!
Back in those days bikers where just a**holes to most germans, still. Not comparable to our situation today, where
in every family you'll find at least one, who owns a motorbike.
Loved the Video as usual! No worries.
As a German I still feel alien in here after my year in NZ. It was sich a culture shock coming back and everyone is just so grumpy. I miss NZ so bad and it's gettin worse every day. If only the visa situation wasn't that hard.
Oh my god yes I had the same problem with the immigration office. We had to go there 3 times and they wanted us to come a fourth time. They only gave me the visa after a quick rage of my German friend :D
The rudeness to outsiders is generally a common Eastern European/Slav mentality, so people from Western Europe/USA/UK need to give Germans more time to warm up. Good luck!
I do not smile anymore at Germans on the street because a few times I've had very negative reactions - scowls, and someone actually even said something really insulting to me! Never again. Luckily, I go back to my habit of smiling at people when I'm in Canada.
It is nice that you be here
First off: don't think of yourselves as un-likeable.
Nothing you have done until now could make me believe I'd not like you as a person.
You seem to be such a nice, lovely person.
Second: never appologize for honesty.
If it is not meant to insult, or anger others, then screw those who get angry at you.
With you I am certain it is not meant to insult or anger others.
Yes, Germans tend to be stand-offish, at least in the beginning.
Small talk is still considered a bit of a waste of time by many people.
Like somebody said below, many cultures require certain steps to become friendly with each other.
The German culture seems to have some different steps, or at least in a different sequence, towards achieving that 'friendship' than many anglophone cultures.
When something happens outside of our own, culturally expected sequence, we are subconsciously disturbed by it.
When something totally unexpected happens, ie something which is not even included in our culture's sequence of steps, we tend to become not only disturbed, but outright angry, or downcast.
Just as a little side-note with a little cheeky, risqué touch.
Just after World War 2 the American soldiers stationed in Great Britain, and in Germany, were very surprised by how 'easy' it was to get some of the young women to become, well, let's say 'well aquainted' with them after a very short time.
Some time later this strange effect was analyzed. It was found that in the USA a small, peckish kiss on the cheek for a greeting was somewhere at number 7 or 8 in the sequence of deepening a friendship in the USA, while it was very close to a near 13 or 14 of 15 steps (ie nearly sleeping with someone) in Great Britain and Germany.
The young women in the UK and Germany were accustomed to a lot slower 'advancement' of the steps, and in a different order.
But when the US soldiers were so 'fresh and forthcoming' to advance beyond certain steps in the sequence of 'friendliness', the women's subconscious told them 'Hey, we are already at closing the deal for marriage, right?' so they were also much more willing to advance their 'relationship' to something a lot more physical than the US soldiers had even hoped they would achieve.
This in turn astonished the US soldiers that the young women, who had seemed so prudish, stand-off-ish just a few minutes before (ie squirming at a light kiss on the cheek), suddenly seemed so willing to advance muuuuch quicker than the soldier had expected.
End result: US soldiers were really astonished about the young 'Fräuleins' in Germany 'putting out' so easily.
These women were not really 'fast and easy'; they just were not accustomed to the US sequence of courtship and friendliness.
The same probably applies for less direct friendliness.
Other order, other sequence, maybe even different list entries in our own personal list of 'what to do and epxect to get someone to open up'.
All of these change our subconscious expectations, and make us vulnerable when things don't work out as we are used to.
Don't worry, you will find the right combination and sequence.
I think you are already most of the way there from what I hear from you.
I think you're cleary over interpreting this whole " smiling thing". Just because someone doesn't smile all the time doesn't mean he or she is not happy or doesn't like you. Its more about being polite and talking in a friendly way. don't be so focussed on facial expressions
Interesting video, and I see from what perspective you've experienced it so. If I may, just few notes from my perspective, as European - there is NO such a thing like "they didn't want me in their country" when it comes to immigration office :) They are doing just the job they are paid for - to decide weather you are or not eligible to get the visa you are requiring. Don't take that that much personal :) Second - excluding Italians, all Europeans are like a bit of suspicious when it comes to interpersonal relationships with people they just met, including small talks and occasional smiling. And that's why we don't get robbed easily when we are somewhere on vacation :)) Maybe it sound rude or impolite, but we don't see the purpose of giving that much of attention on someone that we are just passing by, for instance. Our mask of coldness is our mask of protection :) I can't even count how many times I've saved Americans and Australians of being robbed because they just trust easily to people they just met. Don't do that, that is my personal advice. And again - it's nothing personal. Let's call it a cultural clash :) You have a very nice family Antoinette, and I'm enjoying you videos. Greeting from an European living in Bavaria, too :) xxxx
Kannst du vielleicht ein Video darüber machen was deutsche nicht in neuseeland machen sollten
You are obviously confusing "coldness" with an unwillingness on the part of most Germans to accept superficiality with friendship. Your own narration of your experience with the immigration official makes that very clear. Friendship is something that does not happen overnight; but once a German offers you his/her friendship, it is sincerely meant, and it is understood to last. The most important step on the part of any foreigner to make friends with Germans is to learn the language. It not only helps you understand Germans better, but it also shows the Germans that you are sincere in your effort at getting to know them.
You should have moved to Cologne, people there smile at you :)
Yes, a lot of Germans in the beginning are very closed off. But at least I know what I get there. Somebody is nice to me? They actually mean it. Kiwis? I love you guys, i love staying here, but sometimes I just dont know "are they nice to be just not come over as rude or are they actually liking me?" I cannot completely gauge NZ levels of "niceness" and it freaks me out a bit. Plus, someyimes the niceness feels a little bit too personal space invading.
Amusingly enough I (the German) am the outgoing, friendly person in my relationship while nny partner (the kiwi) is the jaded closed off guy.
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and yes, the diffrrences in that front we ( kiwis and Germans) present is ultimately just the first layer. There are a lot of kiwis i have found to be actually as nice as they present themselves.
I have lived in Japan for quite a long time and when I came back to Germany I realized just how cold and rude a lot of germans can be. Like one time I called my insurance to check if they got my letter and the guy on the phone was SO ridiculously rude and mean I actually started crying and I had to hang up because I couldn't keep on talking.
I totally understand where you are coming from. When I traveled to Berlin by myself for a week, I felt totally alone and sad. I yearned for interaction with others that never came, unless I was being chastised by someone for accidentally stepping in the bike lane. Though I really tried to NOT step in the lanes...I found the lanes to be hard to decipher from time to time and especially at night as the lanes were sometimes on the street and sometimes off the street.
I'd NEVER recommend that anyone travel within Germany by themselves unless they are really looking to be alone and use the time to be introspective.
I can totally relate to what you say about what's normal for me in terms of connecting with others, especially strangers.
Now I fully expect to be trashed by replies as I was before when sharing this story in a comment section of another video.
why would others talk with a stranger, that makes no sense
Germany sounds little different from New Zealand if your an immigrant. I arrived in time for "Punch a Pom" campaign. A lot of British women were terrified and went home
taking their husbands. Who like me were indifferent to it.
Unless your offered a cracking job with a company you know best stay home!
Being from Austria (close enough to Germany ;) ) I visited the US once and was really weirded out. I don't know how to describe it (don't want to sound mean), but everything just felt so superficial and dishonest. I guess here in Austria (and Germany) people make a strong distinction between personal relationships and professional interactions (professional in a very wide sense, including buying something, going to a restaurant, interacting with persons in an office, even asking someone for directions or the time). In the latter case none is interested to talk about personal stuff. I don't want to drag out the german stereotype of it not being "efficient" to small talk, but it's not to the point either. And here in Austria and Germany most of the times what you hear is what is meant.
superdau it’s not we are just a friendly warm people and like to be polite and smile and say hello to strangers because it’s just nice, and it’s not just about you or me it’s about showing yourself friendly to others even if you are having a bad day, and if others are having a bad day a friendly hello and a smile can make their day a little nicer too. We also just say how are you as a greeting like hello, it’s not meant always as a question more of a statement. Just because its it in your culture to show yourself friendly doesn’t mean countries that do are superficial and fake. Goes both ways.
more pictures to elustrate what you mean would be nice
I actually didn't know we have a work-and-holiday-visa here... xD I didn't think or system of work (bad English, I know) was good for this kind of thing. It's not very flexible, you nearly always need a qualification (proofed by a papertrail^^), things like that.
This is meant to be a reciprocal visa but I agree the German system isn't made for it. But it's so unfair that soooooooo many Germans are coming to NZ on this visa, taking jobs which our kids need yet we as New Zealanders can't really do the same
Antoinette, could you please tell me what normally a Kiwi does when it comes to saying goodbye to somebody, instead of the German shaking of hands? I as a German can't think of a more appropriate way of saying goodbye. I feel that just saying the phrase "goodbye" without any gesture that is some sort of topping, something is lacking there to me.
Kiwis and Ozzies they like to do high-5s I noticed...you could always just wave anyway
@@ajrwilde14 Thank you Alice for your answer. Please tell me, high 5 for saying goodbye, really? I would think high 5 is rather the gesture after having won a match or sth.? I'm very German, I suppose.
@@ichmemyself6098 it's weird in Britain as well how much the NZs and OZs love the high 5, some of them do it all the time, if in doubt just do it and I'm sure they'll respond positively
I disagree with the high 5 haha... Just wave and say a happy goodbye with a smile. If you know the person well, it wouldn't be uncommon to give them a hug. I'm British, so the culture is similar to NZ, but I'd say NZ is even less formal. I think for Germans, trying to smile more in these situations would go a long way in an Anglo-Celtic country. In my opinion, Germans (and other cultures too) can come across as hostile due to the lack of "courtesy smiling"... does that make sense?
Funny... over 6 years ago I came to NZ on a HWV and after 3 months met my Kiwi partner here. Immigration NZ was a nightmare to deal with as well but we got there in the end.
Smiling polite people are still something that makes me cringe as a Euro living in New Zealand. Even though I now smile a bit more I still think it's well overdone and like you say a front. Most of the time it's as fake as the "oh hey how you going?". There seems to be no substance to it. I also don't think you're more trusting but maybe more naive. There's only 4mil NZrs and Europe is huge so I'm not gonna pretend I like/care with every person, only the ones that are worth it.
The Kiwi warmth is short-lived and the friendships shallow. I still feel like I don't fit in here, still don't feel like Kiwis like me though I have strong friendships at home and click instantly with expats and just hang out with them, 90% do the same. When it comes to friendship most Kiwis were a lot of work and not worth it in the end. They don't let you too close, hardly ever talk about deep important subjects and for a Euro that just looks like they're keeping a distance because that's as far as they want to take the friendship. The scene with the girls at the party that you mentioned - oh my god I can so relate! Try making friends with these entitled princesses over here (not saying you're on of them). Nobody pulls you onto the dance floor, just look at you weirdly and have a short superficial conversation then that's it, you're done.
It's really hard for people living in NZ as well, the 'if you don't like it go home' attitude is a real thing and you will never feel like this in your own country as a New Zealander.
i know you're not explicitly saying it, but it's true: germans could get their act together and start being more welcoming and friendly to strangers. it doesn't hurt. in fact, not only the opposite person may not feel as rejected, but it's just a nice feeling to be kind. i hate it when fellow germans try to hide their insecurities behind reservedness, and i actually hate it about myself. ironically, it took me a relocation to austria to realize what it feels like to be on the other end of the stick. i can only speak for my experiences in vienna (and from what i hear it's different in other parts of the country), but it's somewhat frustrating how people here make me feel out of place and not belong. to be fair: i think a lot of it is just owed to different customs. eg when i would go for a run in germany and pass by other runners, one would say "hi!", smile (yes, it happens!) or at least nod at one another. in vienna this has never happened to me (in fact, i felt really weird doing it but not getting a reaction when i just moved here, so i stopped). still, germans should stop using customs and culture as an excuse for being jerks and travel and experience other cultures more. that way they might learn a thing or two about themselves and striving to be the best person they can be.
+johnnyxrenegade Very interesting! thanks for sharing your experience
11 minutes in: Had they earlier thought you don't drink (or eat ham, bacon), etc?
I have to laugh about the " smiling " its not only New Zealanders who smile I think almost anywhere in the world people smile . . except in Germany , I have lived here in Germany for 15yrs and when I first came I used to tell my friends back home that I was not sure if smiling was a foreign language or it was illegal . I don't think they have ever been told smiling makes you happy , happily I must say after 15yrs there are more smiling faces here in Germany now or maybe its because I know more people . A smile costs you nothing but it can change someones day , come on Germany I dare you to try just one smile a day , be spontaneous you live in such a fantastic country .
If you smile at someone, they invariably smile back at you!
I think you will find that will depend on where you live !
l have only met 2 NewZealanders and both of them were quite formal,, definitely not friendly and not very communicative either.
But Europe is not a country but they are many countries. And I lived in New Zealand for a time so I know how it is.
I think you meant “standoffish”
So sorry to hear that you had such a hard time with immigration. But be assured - german "BEamte" are usually not very friendly,not even to Germas. You should come to the Saarland. We're great small-talkers :) No big cities here, and we're close to France which might also be a reason for the warmth of the people around here.
why do people make travel videos while they're sitting on their soft beds?
Three and a half minutes of preamble is a bit long.
You are totally right, Germans are pretty closed and Kiwis are so warm and friendly. I miss New Zealand. Being back in Germany makes me realize how much I miss NZ and the really friendly nice and welcoming people.
Bye!
@CJXA: how very clever!
Just that this is kind of bullshit because there's nothing negative about being black in Germany?
Your situation there is a little unusual: 32 years old, married with 2 children, not yet divorced.
Don't smile in Europe. Smiling is an Anglophone thing. In Europe it's flirtatious.
i'd say that depends wether you are in the south or the north. europe is a bit more than just germany...
I understand what you're saying, but even northern Europeans would consider such smiling at strangers to be atypical.
It's rather the south like portugal, italy or spain i meant. If you smile around in scandinavia, they think you're a fucking psycho.
ReaperCH90 : Precisely: flirtatious in the south & west, weird in the north & east.
Lots To Learn how awful it must be that they perceive smiling as flirtatious. They absolutely aren’t very kind and friendly to people then.
Antoinette, as I have already expressed in previous comments, I think that you are a likeable person. However, you need to understand that it's not the job of Germans to make immigrants feel welcome. Germans don't even make fellow Germans feel welcome. So, why should Germans make immigrants feel welcome? Also, German authorities are often very mean and smug towards German people. So, why should German authorities treat you better than us? It's not just you who has the impression that German authorities make up new rules as they please in order to torment people. Most Germans feel that way too. Basically, what I'm trying to say is this: When Germans are cold or mean towards you, then that's usually just a form of equal treatment. So, don't take it personally and try to appreciate the fact that you are treated equally.
characters are the same.... manners might be different...
Why not move back to New Zealand? It is obvious that you are missing your 'old' friends from the past, with a closeness, perceived to grow stronger the longer you are apart. You also miss you mum, don't you?
Also consider that German authorities are currently dealing with an influx of a million plus refugees/economic migrants (versus a quota of 750 per annum in NZ) and that not everyone in these offices will display the warmth and individual devotion you might expect from your family or friends 'back home'. Also, maybe take a break from filming, editing and uploading videos and try to socialise a bit more. Head to a yoga class, attend cooking classes (not that you cannot cook), adopt and walk a dog. And you will meet likeminded people and gradually establish warm relationships that will probably last much longer than those rapid, but often fragile and superficial bonds that are 'so easily' formed in many English speaking countries.
I have been ripped off by a number of your NZ countryman & woman, losing my life savings over the last few years. All with warm and smiling faces, initially not even feeling the knives in my back. So all is not well in New Zealand either and people continue to leave to see what else is out there.
I also prefer not to be constantly asked 'how I am?' & 'what's up', without being given just a small chance for a brief response. Maybe and after you have returned home, you will miss a touch of the formality and initial distance of us typical Germans when you have resettled in the land of the long white cloud? The way you are talking and judging by a touch of seemingly slightly glazed over eyes, don't agonize for too long, or you will go crazy in the misanthropic Deutschland.
I pretty much agree, I had similar experiences in the US (I lived there for almost 5 years). Although there are a lot of genuinely friendly people there, I also had the impression that a large chunk of the social interactions there seemed VERY superficial to me, which was extremely annoying sometimes.
Being distanced and somewhat "cold" at first isn't only a German thing either; many expats from the Anglosphere are complaining about very similar "culture shock issues" when they live in the Netherlands, Austria, Denmark, Sweden, etc.
Don't know about others but your begging for subscribers at the end of your videos is a down turn for me. See if people think you're likeable, then they will subscribe to you anyway, I don't see the need to remind us viewers, as if we're not bright enough to figure out by ourselves.
and now Imagine you are a refugee from Syria. when even white western young girls feel excluded and are treated extremely badly by timmigration office...
This. If this was your experience, imagine how it is for visible minorities, non-western immigrants, and refugees. I immigrated to Germany from a western country, and although I am visibly non-German, I consider myself pretty lucky, especially with a German husband to help out with government stuff. But you are right, Germans are generally very reserved (not quite standoffish).
+Bonjour Yes I often think about this. There is a Syrian refugee family living close to us and I always go out of my way to be extra kind and friendly to them, I can only imagine what they must be going through.
Being non-white doesn't mean that your experience is going to be bad. I am a tall, black with dreadlocks and I had a great time in Germany.
@Ron: But ou arenot Muslim or from a non-Western culture.
There are tons of Muslims in Germany who are doing fine as well as people from non-Western culture. How do you know that I am not coming from a non-Western culture ? I am of West African descent...
I'm German born living in South Africa for 53 years. ...and I must agree Germans in Germany are very formal people and many have no sense of humour. ....I have changed but the Germans in Germany have not. ...in their general behaviour. ... specially when you first meet them....😅😆😁
Immer diese Hobbypsychologen... xD
U r a kiwi 🥝