I feel like the two biggest things that hold eggman back from winning this are that 1. Sage is practically useless given her limit to code and 2. Eggman doesn't have any real counters to the sheer amount of transmutation magic bowser has. Like, most if not all of bowsers minions could just be transformed into who knows what. And even the phantom rubys illusion powers could just be transmuted away. Much as i love eggman, id have to say bowser wins due to eggmans lack of counters
@stevesamuals2651 yeah, it seems that eggmans armies lack of teamwork was really focused on, plus all of Bowser attacks were so unconventional. Eggman had no answer to Bowser more whacky powers
If I may give my prediction for the 5 big stats for the fights and who takes them (note: there are more than a few where a stat could go to one side or tie depending on what Death Battle takes, but I’m reasonably confident one side won’t take the stat): Strength/Durability: Tie/Bowser (early fight) -> Tie/Eggman (late fight with the super forms & equipment) Speed: Tie/Eggman Intelligence: Eggman Hax/Abilities: Tie/Bowser Army: Eggman Extreme diff, it’ll take everything he’s got to beat everything Bowser’s got, but I think Eggman wins more often than he loses.
@GiftOfKnowledge-np9vg I pretty much agree with your prediction 100 percent. It's possible that Bowser will get durability based on him being able to survive as a skeleton, but I still think Eggman has ways to still deal with Bowser in that form
@@plimepf9493 Well personally speaking, I'd kind of put his transformation into Dry Bowser under abilities rather than durability; but I guess it does kind of toe that line. And yeah, Dry Bowser probably shouldn't be impossible to deal with. I mean it'd likely be harder to put down than base; but compared to Fury Bowser or Dreamy Bowser? Dry Bowser would be a 2nd health bar at best compared to those forms.
Just to say though. King Boo could give Sage a run for her money since he could do a epic troll by just hacking eggman’s stuff like he did to E Gadd in Luigi’s mansion
I wonder if she could figure out to destroy the gem on his head, she was able to sense sonic and determine his weaknesses, so I wonder if she could do that to other beings
@@plimepf9493 Eggman literally just LOOKED at Solaris and managed to find a weakness,King Boo won't even notice his crown being stolen by one of Eggman's robots
I think the result we got in this Death Battle was excellent, and well justified in the episode. It wasn't a ROFLSTOMP either, and it wasn't guaranteed for the victor.
I thought there was some weird stuff in the episode, but overall it's gotta be one of my favorites. I think the scene that I question the most is when they Say Sage can calculate millions of scenarios at the same time, but they aren't always accurate seeing as sonic was supposed to lose to the Titans but didn't. The point of the game was to say Sonic was defying fate. Fighting a conceptual being like the end is a crazy feat, seeing as the whole point of it is that there is nothing you can do but wait for the end, with Sonic saying "it's time to defy fate" as his last words. He was supposed to lose by all metrics but had the ability of defying fate, kinda like a persona character. Now I get where they're coming from when they say this, and the conclusion does make sense, and I do believe it is correct, I just think that 1 reasoning could be done better.
@plimepf9493 they changed fate because eggman and Sonic were working together. I think sage even brought this up as well. And bowser himself also have fate manipulation when fighting against dementio who was fated to win because he was the creator of the book of prognostics and won with love hope and dreams which he had in the fight for the love of his minions. While I do think they've could've did better on eggman side. I also don't see them as wrong either
I saw the sneak peak for the fight and notice how wen both armies showed up bowser had all his heavy hitters while eggman had his normal badniks I think eggman is going to analyze the biggest threats before taking them out
Both Kamek and Bowser Jr can use Paperize, this ability comes from Paper Mario Sticker Stars and with this they can steal any item in their opponents inventory and turn it into a sticker. Eggman has no counter to this ability, this ability can be a massive game changer since it can potentially steal the chaos emeralds, any power sources for eggman’s army and even the Phantom Ruby. Even if Eggman steals back the items, he can no longer use them since they are now stickers and has no way to undo the effect.
That’s if Eggman allows that to happen. considering the fact that the eggpawns, Shadow and Knuckle bots physically outstat Kamek he needs to be careful because if not he's getting killed. Metal Sonic also trumps Junior pretty badly, since Jr doesn't scale to his father at full power at all.
Now this is interesting! My only question would be, how dies the ability work, and would it be possible to stop them from paperizing by just hitting them before they can perform the action? On top of this, I wonder if the phantom ruby could just make an illusion to bring the items fully back to life, unless the Ruby is taken out first. That's a very interesting ability indeed
I feel like you're overestimating this skill,Paper Mario is an RPG,and this is clearly an RPG mechanic,in a 1v1 fight with someone,I really think he could use it,but against Eggman? Who literally avoids close contact? And there are multiple barriers protecting him? And besides,even if he somehow does it,Eggman can simply reverse time...
@@Blue_Punch_Buggy224here’s the thing about Paperize, it both stops time and sends the user outside the regular world. It’s near uncounterable ua-cam.com/video/Dl4DhRKYwHY/v-deo.htmlsi=hied-hpjFYcDEQjn
@JoJolion1 i have no idea how you'd take this ability in this debate. I agree that it heavily is defined by game mechanics, but there's no other way to interpret this ability, really. I will say that it relies on the world being paper, which this world just isn't. It's part of the reason I don't understand why they're using paper Mario, seeing as I'm pretty sure it's considered a different continuity.
22:40 hold on Trip doesnt scale to Super Sonic that went up against Solaris. Trip is a pre Sonic Adventure character on the timeline. Currently the game right before Sonic adventure. Super Sonic gets stronger every game. Trip only scales to Classic Super Sonic. Maybe Perfect Chaos level at best.
@peteypiranalover classic sonic along with modern sonic were able to go against the time Eater, a being that erased all of time at once. I'm not sure how you'd scale a being that exists at every moment vs. A being that erased every moment, but the power level is definitely above perfect chaos
@plimepf9493 most of the damage in Generations was Modern Super Sonic though. Above Perfect Chaos level, sure that is realistic but Trip doesn't scale much higher currently
@peteypiranalover I'd be willing to concede that. Sonic beating Solaris is most likely more powerful, but trip should still scale pretty highly. That being said, I doubt the Dragon form will be used at all. She would need all 7 chaos emeralds, and Eggman needs those emeralds for some of his other machinery. I more so mentioned it because I thought it was cool.
16:54 I think you got the names mixed up. Metal Overlord is both the one you fight in SxSG as Shadow and the final Super Sonic fight in Heroes. Metal Madness is the weaker version.
Based on passed death battles, I'm going to give it to Bowser. Not only that bowser mostly do his feats own his own while eggman have other things that do the feats for him. Sage and infinite are a big factor in this, while Bowser Jr. The koopalings, kamek, and king boo are a big factor in that group. I can be wrong, I've haven't read any of the comic to know there's any sort of big factor there, but i don't see any of eggman team that done things bowser team already done.
King Boo and Bowser will likely give Sage a hard time, for King Boo he can likely hack tech like he did in Luigi's Mansion and possibly seal Sage in a portrait now for Bowser, Sage could realistically summon titans but Bowser can grow big and take care of them he has handle giant bosses in the past too, even if Sage had to hide Eggman in Cyberspace Bowser can go there too since he can summon portals sure Cyberspace can cause corruption but Bowser has resisted Corruption before
@Spider-Mario where all that is true and I don't doubt they could take Sage on, it becomes complicated when I think of the fact that Sage isn't a normal machine, definitely more complex than anything egad made, plus she seems to have some sort of conscious, so I think it's possible she could resist ing boo. There's also the fact that she can freely move between cyber space and the real world, meaning that even if she's trapped in a painting, she might be able to get out. I don't deny Bowser could contend with the Titans though.
Still even tho if we assume that it won't do her much good it won't help her beat Bowser, even if Sage could calculate thousands of battle scenarios Bowser's Magic and forms just make him too hard to predict and not to mention Bowser is getting Paper Mario scaling meaning Dimentio is likely being included, Bowser was able to hold on against Dimentio who was capable of destroying time and space and likewise the infinite multiverse
@Spider-Mario now paper Mario is where my gap in knowledge is, but from what I've seen it seems no one would really put Bowser at that level. Even if he could though, the time Eater was able to bring back Crises city, a place that shouldn't exist after solarice was destroyed, so the time Eater must be able to erase and manipulate more than just their own timeline, so I'd say it'd be at least on similar levels
Bowser care for army like a family and joins the fight himself while eggman treats his robots like disposable units (well, most not all). All for One vs One for All. Plus, while most of the Koopa Troop are the first in, first out. Powerups and magic can make them more formidable. If I remember, from Bowser's minions in the M&L superstar 3ds version. Minions that are very loyal (like captain goomba) to Bowser can resist brainwashing. Magic vs Technology. A game of keep away since Eggman himself doesn't want to fight bowser 1v1 without his mechs. One of the Major problem is *The Metal Virus.* If he cannot cure the infection, then eggman has advantage. Unless Eggman himself gets infected due to miscalculation (shame that he never made himself immune to his own virus. Talk about poor design from his creation). The other is Metal Sonic. He's the wild card that can become a huge problem with copying data from all lifeforms. Though imperfect, most of Bowser's army are useless to stop him.
What are your thoughts post battle? Actually crazy how a lot of your wishes for the fight cinematography wise were done thats some CRAZY knowledge there
I think I'm just really lucky lol. I really loved the episode. By far one of my favorite episodes they've made. I just hate how much I've been wrong this season lol. My right / wrong ratio is growing by the minute.
YOU JUST MADE ME REMEMBER EMERL/GEMERL COULD ALSO BE ON EGGMAN'S TEAM AND NOW I'M WONDERING WHY WASN'T HE ADDED TO THE BATTLE??? Like he's just a little weaker metal sonic (And not by much since he's shown to be kinda on par with shadow in the Dark Begginings miniseries), plus his abbility to "copy" just like Metal, AND STILL WITHOUT GOING SUPER HE WAS BEING MVP MOST OF THE TIME WITH SAGE I can understand Chaos's absense since it's more of it's own being and not a creation of Eggman (Tho infinite was there too) but again, WHY WASN'T EMERL ADDED???
@ignamaster-7557 emerl never listened to Eggman, gemerl was his main unit he used in sonic advance 3. But I'm pretty sure they wanted to keep the units even between both sides. Giving Eggman metal Sonic, Sage and infinite, and Bowser kamek, King boo, and Bowser Jr.
I don’t think Trip would show up, since they’re not using characters like Knuckles or Shadow. Fang the Sniper, however, probably could. He’s never betrayed Eggman.
@angrygarbanzo5436 i don't think trip would show up either, I just think that she has more of a shot based on how she's only had 1 appearance and it'd probably be her only way to get into a db
Sage will be extremely important here for Eggman Bowser’s team can’t do ANYTHING to her. Her visual form is not her physical form as seem by things going through her. If they wanted to destroy her, they would have to destroy that core that Eggman put into the cyberspace portal. And she is an AI there is no brain to brainwash so mind control wouldn’t work and as I mentioned transmutation wouldn’t work because there’s nothing physically there to transmute. Even if they somehow destroyed the core egg man has backups of her AI, as seen by the ending scene of the final horizons DLC. Her intelligence is extreme as she is one of Eggman‘s most advanced AI constantly running simulations and predictions. She is far beyond anything King Boo has tried to hack. She has full control over cyberspace a pocket dimension of infinite size that stores all of the knowledge of the ancients civilization, and anyone else that uses it. Inside cyberspace was stored the Titans, which were super advanced mechs created by the ancients as a final stand against The End, a being more powerful than anything sonic has faced, which would include Solaris a Multiversal threat that even supersonic had trouble defeating and he had to call upon shadow and silver to help him in their own super forms. The ancients locked The End inside of Supreme the most powerful of the Titans and stored the Titans in Cypberspace to prevent the end from ever escaping and it worked up until Eggman messed with cyberspace. In theory sage could trap most of Bowser’s army in cyberspace, and they would not be able to do anything as she has full control. If King Boo were to be trapped in cyberspace, he could try to escape, but even if he did successfully escape, he would now be infected with the cyber corruption , which is not anything close to an infection. Sonic has been the only known being to escape cyberspace without outside help. The only reason he was able to do that was seemingly just because he’s sonic. What I mean by that is as Sage tells sonic it should be impossible for him to do that many of the things sonic does in this game should be impossible for him to do according to Sage and according to basically the theme of the game itself, but he still does it. Basically the theme being going beyond all possible limits, and that was shown when sonic had to go beyond supersonic. which he has not needed to do in over 3 real life decades, and that is even that’s if you count hypersonic, which has questionable cannonicity. And he was only able to go beyond that level because he trained with the ancients and harnessed the cyber corruption risking his own life to do so in both endings to sonic frontiers he almost dies and is almost trapped in cyberspace forever. After he finishes training, he goes towards supreme and defeats supreme, but then The End takes control and literally knocks Sonic out of his super form and that happens canonically as it’s in a mid fight cut scene. But with sonics well now and determination and his constant growing strength, he reabsorbs the Chaos Emeralds which in theory should have instantly scattered like they usually do, but he was able to hold onto them before they had the chance. And transforms into “supersonic 2“ which keep in mind supersonic already is supposed to have infinite power as the Chaos Emeralds have infinite positive and negative energy. Meaning he had to literally go beyond infinite power. And that wasn’t even the full power of the cyber corruption that Sonic had harnessed with the very same gun that supreme had Eggman launches sonic out of the barrel of the gun as sonic transforms yet again into “cyber supersonic“ risking his own life as he absorbs every last ounce of the cyber corruption and goes all out as he launched out of the gun. He instantly obliterates the end he would’ve died if not for the chaos emeralds. as an unconscious supersonic drifts back towards earth. Everything comes to an end as sonic literally beat fate itself, and went past all possible limits. So unless Bowser and his army can somehow bypass fate and beyond infinite power, then sage will be a big part of this
Man Im salty as hell. Since when can Kamek transmutate moon-sized structures? Not to mention being able to transform Sage despite her existing in Cyberspace, a completely different dimension. The form we see is just a hologram/projection. The Chaos Emeralds are downplayed to Universal despite the fact that they could be used to overpower Solaris which threatened multiple timelines (and each timeline is at minimum an infinite, 4th dimensional universe). As for the Wonder Flower and Dream Stone? Yeah, fair enough, Eggmans only response could be trying to use the Chaos Emeralds to wish them away, or possibly use the machine he used to rip the super out of Super Sonic. But even then, thats a stretch. Finally, they gave Kamek *mario party* scaling? Is that even canon?? If Bowser is getting scaling off of side content like mario party, sports, etc. Why doesn't eggman get scaling off of Archie? Better yet, Eggman in Lightman Mode was able to fight on par with Super Sonic, who is stronger than Darkspine Sonic, who defeated Erazor Jinn, who threatened to collapse 99 universes simultaneously with his mere presence. I get it, transmutation and magic in general is a bitch to get around for a man of science. But that alone shouldnt have been enough to put Bowser above Eggman. Also, Infinite, defeated by..a Thwomp? Really?
@socialaccount0000 personally i find infinite defeated by a thwomp hilarious, seeing as he kinda just fucks off and leaves in his own game lol. I do find a lot of parts of this fight to be really interesting. I'm not sure if Sage got transformed, since she's shown plotting against Bowser in the end card scene. Kamek transmuting the death egg is a crazy feat, but I can see them allowing it for a fun moment. Seeing as Bowser could just blow it up or turn it into paper to get rid of it. I'm going to rewatch it a few times and really get my thoughts into words for my review, but regardless, that was an amazing fight!
@@plimepf9493 Sage's best assets were directing weapons and tools for Robotnik, but Bowser Jr. targeting the escape vehicle and Death Egg took out the best weapons Robotnik had left. Sage could have blocked it if Bowser Jr. had attacked Robotnik directly, but taking out the tools left Robotnik vulnerable. It might have gone differently if it were Bowser invading Robotnik at his "I conquered the world!" peak, but even with Bowser winning it was NOT a ROFLSTOMP, with Bowser's combination of leading from the front AND his army being family and friends winning the day.
@@matthiesmoore Bowser is definitely the most popular winner, but i think even without Archie that Eggman could still take it. Archie Sonic is just alil too busted to be fun for this debate.
It's more that the intangibles and teamwork won the day. Robotnik had a bunch of expendable minions, barring Sage, who was limited to technology hacking while also being very smart. But Bowser had a loyal army with multiple people close to his own power backing him up while he lead from the front. It's a close run thing, but Robotnik's mistake was invading. He'd have had a MUCH better chance if Bowser would have invaded, though I think that would have been a draw or a narrow Bowser victory. And even this battle wasn't a ROFLSTOMP, because Robotnik pushed Bowser close to the limit.
Definitely a threat; as it to can get up to multiversal scaling, and it's powers to do whatever Bowser wants is more than impressive too. I definitely think it's Bowser's best form, with it's only real competition being Pure Heart-amped Bowser for potentially greater stats...I wonder if Death Battle could let Bowser use the Pure Hearts in his Dreamy Form for the stats of the former & powers of the latter... That said, Eggman's units with Super Sonic scaling can contend with Pure Heart/Dreamy Bowser's stats (and depending on who you ask, surpass them) even in a 1v1, & Super Eggman's own reality rewriting can match most of Dreamy Bowser's powers (and what that form alone can't counter from Dreamy can be countered by other hax. In general, I feel confident saying neither side has anything they can throw out the the other side doesn't have a potential answer too).
@@CarlosGarcia91000 By most assumptions, it seems so. This may be difficult to wrap one's head around and I've had trouble explaining it in the past but like; so the Time eater destroys all of space & time, right? That is, it destroys all of the universe in every time. So it's destroying all of 3-dimensional space across all of a 4th dimension; or but another way, it is destroying the universe once for every second between the start & end of time. This is why, all else being equal, the destruction of one universe's timeline is considered just as potent an attack as destroying a multiverse at once; both show the power to destroy a universe a (presumably) infinite number of times over. 4D multiversal attack potency. We actually see this in action in the opening cutscene of Sonic; where the Time Eater appears before Classic Sonic and destroys the universe, and at the same time (from it's own perspective) appears before Modern Sonic to destroy the universe at that time too. And in the remake it also appears before Shadow to destroy the universe a 3rd time. And near every level & boss in the game is a crumb left over from a different time the Time Eater destroyed the universe, so that's a minimum of around ~20 times over that Time Eater can destroy the universe (But that is just a minimum of course; much like the Void from Super Paper Mario can destroy a minimum of 8 universes but we presume it's destroying many more universes than just the levels we see). Just in case you _do_ buy that minimum of the Time Eater only destroying the universe ~20 times over; we can also get into dream universe scaling. Just as Mario has the Dream Depot telling us every person's dream in the Mario-verse is an infinite universe; so too does Sonic have MaginaryWorld, telling us the same of the Sonic-verse. And for both series, it's just kind of presumed that whenever all of reality is threatened, that also includes these dream universes. So Paper Mario's void isn't _just_ threatening somewhere between 8 & infinite universes, but also a number of dream universes equal to the total population of everyone in that first set of 'between 8 & infinite universes' (This is why everyone hypes up Paper Mario scaling btw.) But conversely, the Time Eater isn't _just_ destroying the universe somewhere between 20 & an infinite number of times over, but it's also destroying a dream universe for every single person alive in an instance of the universe it destroys. (This why everyone hypes up Time Eater scaling btw. (Well, part of it. Enough to make my point anyway. Besides, the rest may or may not be getting retconned, idk.))
@@Ax_x1om yeah they do scale each other but none of them were gonna destroy infinite universes. They were gonna destroy timelines the difference is Solaris was gonna do the same thing but with dimensions
@@spawnsavage1084 I usually avoid poking at people for what they say because everybody has their favorites, but today my little cousin spent an hour pretending today was "opposite day" and I can't stop laughing at the sheer coincidence with what you said vs what happened in the battle. I hope at least you enjoyed the crazy animation.
Yeah, even with Paper Mario & the IDW Sonic comics counting, Eggman will still be victorious. If they say Bowser wins, there's gonna be a ton of questions.
I also think Eggman wins i dont really get why so many predict Bowser. Im still rooting Bowser though. I think people are undrselling Bowser minions the Supersar saga and Bowsers inside story side plots give them quite a bit. Also there are these massive bullet bills from Mario Bros Wii. Basically everyone has their one massive versions and Dry Bones and everyone made of stone or metal would not be affected by the Metal Virus. Also Shy guys and suck the life force of robots too, which heals them. Btw you ignored Paper Jam and Color Splash in your Koopaling analysis, which gives them some insane stuff.
@heyguysxd i didn't ignore them, I said in the end of the video that I didn't have time to go through paper Mario or the idw comics for sonic, so if there was something there than I'd love to know. I just think eggmans army is more destructive in the long run.
@plimepf9493 Oh i missed that sorry, but yeah they get plenty of stuff in those Games a little to much to list them here though. I also think Eggmans army is more destructive but Bowser easily has a HUGE numbers advantage.
@heyguysxd bowser's army is more formidable when factoring in powerups and magic. A single goomba could be an imposter bowser thanks to magic. Also, mind control may not do much for eggman due to the sheer Loyalty bowser's minions have. Look into Bowser's minions from the M&L superstar saga 3ds version.
@nintendosegafan4935 i have a lot of that stuff in my notes, but didn't add it because I didn't feel it was too important. I think even with powered up troops, Eggman would still take the army advantage. I also don't believe the mind controlling would work either. Maybe for a few troops but not most of the army
I doubt death battle will always follow their own rules--- For example mario vs Sonic-- They said they will only follow logic from the canon games ,not non canon games-- Yeeeeeeet--- They start talking about feats in the non canon games-- Can't they hear themselves when they explain shit... They constantly breaks their own rules... How the fuck mario can be faster than sonic-- Game sonic performed amazing feats-- Sonic defeated The END , confirmed to be powerful boss creature across all known sonic games-- That creature is powerful than even freaking solaris who has the power to destroy past , present and future. All time and space-- Sonic beat it with little help from silver and shadow in their super forms . But it is confirmed that Sonic is becoming stronger than his previous selves-- Death battle just sucks at doing their research carefully-- They said following canon games ,not non canon games like mario party , smash bros , sonic and mario Olympics--- Boi...they are terrible... They won't pay attention at all. They just don't care anymore about logic , what's fair or wrong, as long as we simply watch their video , they still win in the end--
@SadoBlackRoseAngelov well when it comes to death battle rules, I agree sometimes and disagree others. In mario vs. Sonics case, they mainly meant they weren't using any cartoons or any of sonics comics. Death battle has had many different writers and researchers, so I think it just depends on a bunch of different aspects for people to come to their conclusions. Even for this matchup, I think there's a good chance Bowser wins even with my logic, I just personally believe that Eggman has a higher chance with my own logic. There's alot up to interpretation, it's just how they interpret it. I don't come to an episode specifically for a verdict. I only care if their logic makes sense and it's entertaining. In the end it's not like we will ever know who actually wins, but their animations and editing make it worth that click through rate. If you go to the episodes caring really harshly about the verdict, than I think you're setting yourself to be disappointed. They doesn't mean they are above criticism, it just means I criticize them in different ways.
@Damanwithdaplan05 so i think the issue is the lack of understanding what they mean when they say primary source. The games were used as the primary, and the cartoons were used as a secondary, just supporting material. They talked about Mario throwing the dinosaur in the cartoon as comparable to him pulling the chain chomp, they talked about sonics speed in two different cartoons, before talking about running from the black hole, which is what they used for his speed feat. And they used the ova for sonics strength, but only after comparing two other in game feats of similar strength, and I'm certain they only used that feat to make sonic as strong as possible since he's already stat stomped in that category. They used feats that were comparable to game feats, if they weren't close, they wouldn't have used them. As a side note, they didn't say Mario was faster than sonic, just that he's reacted to things on that speed level before. Tldr, they didn't say they weren't using cartoons feats, just that they weren't using anything not supported by the games.
@Damanwithdaplan05 I've explained it the best I can. If you refuse to acknowledge anything past the games, then you are free to think that. The only thing that changes in that episode is sonic wouldn't get the stalagtite feat, meaning he just gets stomped even harder.
@scotland8906 shadow beat Ryuko and Archie Silver beat Trunks, Ben singer has shown lots of love for sonic so I'm not sure why you'd come to that conclusion.
@plimepf9493 from people who used to work at screw attack they said alot of people who work at death battle don't like sonic which is why shadow lost to vegeta and mewtwo knuckles lost to donkey kong sonic lost to mario and wally and metal lost to zero even though all those characters should have won those fights and what they said about metal sonic vs cell recently
@scotland8906 i don't really count seasons 1 and 2 in terms of accurate results, seeing as ben singer has said multiple times that those seasons weren't meant to be taken seriously. Even discounting that though, sonic beat mario originally, Eggman technically beat willy, Tails beat Luigi, Amy beat Ramona, and the other two i mentioned. The win / lose ratio is literally 50/50. I don't think that shows any destiny for the series. Plus you can quote what old screwattack employees say, or you can listen to what they say now. Also in that cast they all agreed that metal Sonic wins that fight most likely. I don't think anything shows that they just hate sonic and want that series to always lose when you look.at everything as a whole.
@plimepf9493 I do agree with you but as someone who is a massive sonic fan I always feel like sonic gets a bad wrap sometimes I think the best case of this is shadow vs Mewtwo and shadow vs vegeta (the mewtwo fight is why worse.) But aside from sonic I do think death battle are biased sometimes and do faulty resources. But maybe that's just me.
@scotland8906 There's no denying that there is bias and faulty research at times. I'm just against people saying the whole show is biased. There's so many writers and researchers that I don't think everyone could be like that. They seem to want to find the right answer, but they might still wrong from time to time.
I feel like the two biggest things that hold eggman back from winning this are that 1. Sage is practically useless given her limit to code and 2. Eggman doesn't have any real counters to the sheer amount of transmutation magic bowser has. Like, most if not all of bowsers minions could just be transformed into who knows what. And even the phantom rubys illusion powers could just be transmuted away.
Much as i love eggman, id have to say bowser wins due to eggmans lack of counters
@stevesamuals2651 yeah, it seems that eggmans armies lack of teamwork was really focused on, plus all of Bowser attacks were so unconventional. Eggman had no answer to Bowser more whacky powers
If I may give my prediction for the 5 big stats for the fights and who takes them (note: there are more than a few where a stat could go to one side or tie depending on what Death Battle takes, but I’m reasonably confident one side won’t take the stat):
Strength/Durability: Tie/Bowser (early fight) -> Tie/Eggman (late fight with the super forms & equipment)
Speed: Tie/Eggman
Intelligence: Eggman
Hax/Abilities: Tie/Bowser
Army: Eggman
Extreme diff, it’ll take everything he’s got to beat everything Bowser’s got, but I think Eggman wins more often than he loses.
@GiftOfKnowledge-np9vg I pretty much agree with your prediction 100 percent. It's possible that Bowser will get durability based on him being able to survive as a skeleton, but I still think Eggman has ways to still deal with Bowser in that form
@@plimepf9493 Well personally speaking, I'd kind of put his transformation into Dry Bowser under abilities rather than durability; but I guess it does kind of toe that line.
And yeah, Dry Bowser probably shouldn't be impossible to deal with. I mean it'd likely be harder to put down than base; but compared to Fury Bowser or Dreamy Bowser? Dry Bowser would be a 2nd health bar at best compared to those forms.
@GiftOfKnowledge-np9vg true, if either of those forms can't do it, then it definitely won't make a difference
Each side has SO MANY counters to each other, I genially want to see how the battle plays out with how things can turn out.
I'm so excited for this episode! Tomorrow can't come soon enough ✊
@@MrGoodies123WoahStayAwesome even if I'm right or wrong, it's gonna be a great episode!
@@plimepf9493 Hard Agree! 🙌
Just to say though. King Boo could give Sage a run for her money since he could do a epic troll by just hacking eggman’s stuff like he did to E Gadd in Luigi’s mansion
I wonder if she could figure out to destroy the gem on his head, she was able to sense sonic and determine his weaknesses, so I wonder if she could do that to other beings
@@plimepf9493 Eggman literally just LOOKED at Solaris and managed to find a weakness,King Boo won't even notice his crown being stolen by one of Eggman's robots
@KingTrouxão imagine he uses the same gripper claw he used to steal the chaos Emerald from Tails in SA1 to steal the gem on king boos hat
I think the result we got in this Death Battle was excellent, and well justified in the episode.
It wasn't a ROFLSTOMP either, and it wasn't guaranteed for the victor.
I thought there was some weird stuff in the episode, but overall it's gotta be one of my favorites. I think the scene that I question the most is when they Say Sage can calculate millions of scenarios at the same time, but they aren't always accurate seeing as sonic was supposed to lose to the Titans but didn't. The point of the game was to say Sonic was defying fate. Fighting a conceptual being like the end is a crazy feat, seeing as the whole point of it is that there is nothing you can do but wait for the end, with Sonic saying "it's time to defy fate" as his last words. He was supposed to lose by all metrics but had the ability of defying fate, kinda like a persona character. Now I get where they're coming from when they say this, and the conclusion does make sense, and I do believe it is correct, I just think that 1 reasoning could be done better.
@plimepf9493 they changed fate because eggman and Sonic were working together. I think sage even brought this up as well. And bowser himself also have fate manipulation when fighting against dementio who was fated to win because he was the creator of the book of prognostics and won with love hope and dreams which he had in the fight for the love of his minions. While I do think they've could've did better on eggman side. I also don't see them as wrong either
This will be epic
I saw the sneak peak for the fight and notice how wen both armies showed up bowser had all his heavy hitters while eggman had his normal badniks I think eggman is going to analyze the biggest threats before taking them out
Both Kamek and Bowser Jr can use Paperize, this ability comes from Paper Mario Sticker Stars and with this they can steal any item in their opponents inventory and turn it into a sticker. Eggman has no counter to this ability, this ability can be a massive game changer since it can potentially steal the chaos emeralds, any power sources for eggman’s army and even the Phantom Ruby. Even if Eggman steals back the items, he can no longer use them since they are now stickers and has no way to undo the effect.
That’s if Eggman allows that to happen. considering the fact that the eggpawns, Shadow and Knuckle bots physically outstat Kamek he needs to be careful because if not he's getting killed. Metal Sonic also trumps Junior pretty badly, since Jr doesn't scale to his father at full power at all.
Now this is interesting! My only question would be, how dies the ability work, and would it be possible to stop them from paperizing by just hitting them before they can perform the action? On top of this, I wonder if the phantom ruby could just make an illusion to bring the items fully back to life, unless the Ruby is taken out first. That's a very interesting ability indeed
I feel like you're overestimating this skill,Paper Mario is an RPG,and this is clearly an RPG mechanic,in a 1v1 fight with someone,I really think he could use it,but against Eggman? Who literally avoids close contact? And there are multiple barriers protecting him? And besides,even if he somehow does it,Eggman can simply reverse time...
@@Blue_Punch_Buggy224here’s the thing about Paperize, it both stops time and sends the user outside the regular world. It’s near uncounterable
ua-cam.com/video/Dl4DhRKYwHY/v-deo.htmlsi=hied-hpjFYcDEQjn
@JoJolion1 i have no idea how you'd take this ability in this debate. I agree that it heavily is defined by game mechanics, but there's no other way to interpret this ability, really. I will say that it relies on the world being paper, which this world just isn't. It's part of the reason I don't understand why they're using paper Mario, seeing as I'm pretty sure it's considered a different continuity.
22:40 hold on Trip doesnt scale to Super Sonic that went up against Solaris. Trip is a pre Sonic Adventure character on the timeline. Currently the game right before Sonic adventure. Super Sonic gets stronger every game.
Trip only scales to Classic Super Sonic. Maybe Perfect Chaos level at best.
@peteypiranalover classic sonic along with modern sonic were able to go against the time Eater, a being that erased all of time at once. I'm not sure how you'd scale a being that exists at every moment vs. A being that erased every moment, but the power level is definitely above perfect chaos
@plimepf9493 most of the damage in Generations was Modern Super Sonic though. Above Perfect Chaos level, sure that is realistic but Trip doesn't scale much higher currently
@peteypiranalover I'd be willing to concede that. Sonic beating Solaris is most likely more powerful, but trip should still scale pretty highly. That being said, I doubt the Dragon form will be used at all. She would need all 7 chaos emeralds, and Eggman needs those emeralds for some of his other machinery. I more so mentioned it because I thought it was cool.
16:54 I think you got the names mixed up. Metal Overlord is both the one you fight in SxSG as Shadow and the final Super Sonic fight in Heroes. Metal Madness is the weaker version.
@thunderx456 oh shit, that's my bad. I'm surprised I didn't notice that at all lol
Based on passed death battles, I'm going to give it to Bowser. Not only that bowser mostly do his feats own his own while eggman have other things that do the feats for him. Sage and infinite are a big factor in this, while Bowser Jr. The koopalings, kamek, and king boo are a big factor in that group. I can be wrong, I've haven't read any of the comic to know there's any sort of big factor there, but i don't see any of eggman team that done things bowser team already done.
King Boo and Bowser will likely give Sage a hard time, for King Boo he can likely hack tech like he did in Luigi's Mansion and possibly seal Sage in a portrait now for Bowser, Sage could realistically summon titans but Bowser can grow big and take care of them he has handle giant bosses in the past too, even if Sage had to hide Eggman in Cyberspace Bowser can go there too since he can summon portals sure Cyberspace can cause corruption but Bowser has resisted Corruption before
@Spider-Mario where all that is true and I don't doubt they could take Sage on, it becomes complicated when I think of the fact that Sage isn't a normal machine, definitely more complex than anything egad made, plus she seems to have some sort of conscious, so I think it's possible she could resist ing boo. There's also the fact that she can freely move between cyber space and the real world, meaning that even if she's trapped in a painting, she might be able to get out. I don't deny Bowser could contend with the Titans though.
Still even tho if we assume that it won't do her much good it won't help her beat Bowser, even if Sage could calculate thousands of battle scenarios Bowser's Magic and forms just make him too hard to predict and not to mention Bowser is getting Paper Mario scaling meaning Dimentio is likely being included, Bowser was able to hold on against Dimentio who was capable of destroying time and space and likewise the infinite multiverse
@Spider-Mario now paper Mario is where my gap in knowledge is, but from what I've seen it seems no one would really put Bowser at that level. Even if he could though, the time Eater was able to bring back Crises city, a place that shouldn't exist after solarice was destroyed, so the time Eater must be able to erase and manipulate more than just their own timeline, so I'd say it'd be at least on similar levels
@@plimepf9493 ever heard of dreamy Bowser
@CarlosGarcia91000 i have not, is it a paper Mario thing?
They are not going to ad how only a bunch of bombs of bowser army could launch Mario to the moon with one explosion
Bowser care for army like a family and joins the fight himself while eggman treats his robots like disposable units (well, most not all). All for One vs One for All. Plus, while most of the Koopa Troop are the first in, first out. Powerups and magic can make them more formidable. If I remember, from Bowser's minions in the M&L superstar 3ds version. Minions that are very loyal (like captain goomba) to Bowser can resist brainwashing.
Magic vs Technology. A game of keep away since Eggman himself doesn't want to fight bowser 1v1 without his mechs.
One of the Major problem is *The Metal Virus.* If he cannot cure the infection, then eggman has advantage. Unless Eggman himself gets infected due to miscalculation (shame that he never made himself immune to his own virus. Talk about poor design from his creation).
The other is Metal Sonic. He's the wild card that can become a huge problem with copying data from all lifeforms. Though imperfect, most of Bowser's army are useless to stop him.
@nintendosegafan4935 it's going to be close for sure, eggmans army is more powerful, but Bowsers is more unified.
@@plimepf9493 Also, the OST for this battle is literally called *Game Over.*
I saw a few comments that said the recently he got metal sonic back into control so no worries about that
Eggman is gonna pull out his MASSIVE glowing rock collection and erase bowser.
Eggman FTW
Toon Force and magic is on Bowser's side. While not the most powerful, it's still better than science...at least in most fiction.
What are your thoughts post battle? Actually crazy how a lot of your wishes for the fight cinematography wise were done thats some CRAZY knowledge there
I think I'm just really lucky lol. I really loved the episode. By far one of my favorite episodes they've made. I just hate how much I've been wrong this season lol. My right / wrong ratio is growing by the minute.
LONG LIVE THE EGGMAN EMPIRE
YOU JUST MADE ME REMEMBER EMERL/GEMERL COULD ALSO BE ON EGGMAN'S TEAM AND NOW I'M WONDERING WHY WASN'T HE ADDED TO THE BATTLE???
Like he's just a little weaker metal sonic (And not by much since he's shown to be kinda on par with shadow in the Dark Begginings miniseries), plus his abbility to "copy" just like Metal, AND STILL WITHOUT GOING SUPER HE WAS BEING MVP MOST OF THE TIME WITH SAGE
I can understand Chaos's absense since it's more of it's own being and not a creation of Eggman (Tho infinite was there too) but again, WHY WASN'T EMERL ADDED???
@ignamaster-7557 emerl never listened to Eggman, gemerl was his main unit he used in sonic advance 3. But I'm pretty sure they wanted to keep the units even between both sides. Giving Eggman metal Sonic, Sage and infinite, and Bowser kamek, King boo, and Bowser Jr.
He still would have been cool though
Bowser can take on his Paper self who could take on Dimentio who could destroy all worlds, including Heaven and the Afterlife
I don’t think Trip would show up, since they’re not using characters like Knuckles or Shadow. Fang the Sniper, however, probably could. He’s never betrayed Eggman.
@angrygarbanzo5436 i don't think trip would show up either, I just think that she has more of a shot based on how she's only had 1 appearance and it'd probably be her only way to get into a db
Sage will be extremely important here for Eggman
Bowser’s team can’t do ANYTHING to her. Her visual form is not her physical form as seem by things going through her. If they wanted to destroy her, they would have to destroy that core that Eggman put into the cyberspace portal. And she is an AI there is no brain to brainwash so mind control wouldn’t work and as I mentioned transmutation wouldn’t work because there’s nothing physically there to transmute. Even if they somehow destroyed the core egg man has backups of her AI, as seen by the ending scene of the final horizons DLC.
Her intelligence is extreme as she is one of Eggman‘s most advanced AI constantly running simulations and predictions. She is far beyond anything King Boo has tried to hack. She has full control over cyberspace a pocket dimension of infinite size that stores all of the knowledge of the ancients civilization, and anyone else that uses it.
Inside cyberspace was stored the Titans, which were super advanced mechs created by the ancients as a final stand against The End, a being more powerful than anything sonic has faced, which would include Solaris a Multiversal threat that even supersonic had trouble defeating and he had to call upon shadow and silver to help him in their own super forms. The ancients locked The End inside of Supreme the most powerful of the Titans and stored the Titans in Cypberspace to prevent the end from ever escaping and it worked up until Eggman messed with cyberspace.
In theory sage could trap most of Bowser’s army in cyberspace, and they would not be able to do anything as she has full control. If King Boo were to be trapped in cyberspace, he could try to escape, but even if he did successfully escape, he would now be infected with the cyber corruption , which is not anything close to an infection.
Sonic has been the only known being to escape cyberspace without outside help. The only reason he was able to do that was seemingly just because he’s sonic. What I mean by that is as Sage tells sonic it should be impossible for him to do that many of the things sonic does in this game should be impossible for him to do according to Sage and according to basically the theme of the game itself, but he still does it. Basically the theme being going beyond all possible limits, and that was shown when sonic had to go beyond supersonic. which he has not needed to do in over 3 real life decades, and that is even that’s if you count hypersonic, which has questionable cannonicity.
And he was only able to go beyond that level because he trained with the ancients and harnessed the cyber corruption risking his own life to do so in both endings to sonic frontiers he almost dies and is almost trapped in cyberspace forever. After he finishes training, he goes towards supreme and defeats supreme, but then The End takes control and literally knocks Sonic out of his super form and that happens canonically as it’s in a mid fight cut scene. But with sonics well now and determination and his constant growing strength, he reabsorbs the Chaos Emeralds which in theory should have instantly scattered like they usually do, but he was able to hold onto them before they had the chance. And transforms into “supersonic 2“ which keep in mind supersonic already is supposed to have infinite power as the Chaos Emeralds have infinite positive and negative energy. Meaning he had to literally go beyond infinite power.
And that wasn’t even the full power of the cyber corruption that Sonic had harnessed with the very same gun that supreme had Eggman launches sonic out of the barrel of the gun as sonic transforms yet again into “cyber supersonic“ risking his own life as he absorbs every last ounce of the cyber corruption and goes all out as he launched out of the gun. He instantly obliterates the end he would’ve died if not for the chaos emeralds. as an unconscious supersonic drifts back towards earth. Everything comes to an end as sonic literally beat fate itself, and went past all possible limits.
So unless Bowser and his army can somehow bypass fate and beyond infinite power, then sage will be a big part of this
Man Im salty as hell. Since when can Kamek transmutate moon-sized structures? Not to mention being able to transform Sage despite her existing in Cyberspace, a completely different dimension. The form we see is just a hologram/projection.
The Chaos Emeralds are downplayed to Universal despite the fact that they could be used to overpower Solaris which threatened multiple timelines (and each timeline is at minimum an infinite, 4th dimensional universe).
As for the Wonder Flower and Dream Stone? Yeah, fair enough, Eggmans only response could be trying to use the Chaos Emeralds to wish them away, or possibly use the machine he used to rip the super out of Super Sonic. But even then, thats a stretch.
Finally, they gave Kamek *mario party* scaling? Is that even canon?? If Bowser is getting scaling off of side content like mario party, sports, etc. Why doesn't eggman get scaling off of Archie? Better yet, Eggman in Lightman Mode was able to fight on par with Super Sonic, who is stronger than Darkspine Sonic, who defeated Erazor Jinn, who threatened to collapse 99 universes simultaneously with his mere presence.
I get it, transmutation and magic in general is a bitch to get around for a man of science. But that alone shouldnt have been enough to put Bowser above Eggman. Also, Infinite, defeated by..a Thwomp? Really?
@socialaccount0000 personally i find infinite defeated by a thwomp hilarious, seeing as he kinda just fucks off and leaves in his own game lol. I do find a lot of parts of this fight to be really interesting. I'm not sure if Sage got transformed, since she's shown plotting against Bowser in the end card scene. Kamek transmuting the death egg is a crazy feat, but I can see them allowing it for a fun moment. Seeing as Bowser could just blow it up or turn it into paper to get rid of it. I'm going to rewatch it a few times and really get my thoughts into words for my review, but regardless, that was an amazing fight!
@@plimepf9493 Sage's best assets were directing weapons and tools for Robotnik, but Bowser Jr. targeting the escape vehicle and Death Egg took out the best weapons Robotnik had left.
Sage could have blocked it if Bowser Jr. had attacked Robotnik directly, but taking out the tools left Robotnik vulnerable.
It might have gone differently if it were Bowser invading Robotnik at his "I conquered the world!" peak, but even with Bowser winning it was NOT a ROFLSTOMP, with Bowser's combination of leading from the front AND his army being family and friends winning the day.
@@plimepf9493 Was it a funny, well animated matchup? Sure. Was it scaled heavily in Bowser's favor? Absolutely
Am i On Team Bowser And Rest in Peace To Dr. Eggman Because They Didn't Give Him Archie Sonic Stuff
@@matthiesmoore Bowser is definitely the most popular winner, but i think even without Archie that Eggman could still take it. Archie Sonic is just alil too busted to be fun for this debate.
I'm also on the team of Bowser
Yeah no, Eggmans gonna piss on the moon and on bowser
@@plimepf9493precise you know what's going to happen after this one
Metal’s copy ability isn’t perfect, it has lost info on Sonic and Shadow before, Eggman himself even stated that it couldn’t be salvageable
SHOWTIME! 🐢🥚
Surprise Eggman lost. Honestly, I think they let him lose because a lot of people were in favor of Eggman.
It's more that the intangibles and teamwork won the day. Robotnik had a bunch of expendable minions, barring Sage, who was limited to technology hacking while also being very smart. But Bowser had a loyal army with multiple people close to his own power backing him up while he lead from the front.
It's a close run thing, but Robotnik's mistake was invading. He'd have had a MUCH better chance if Bowser would have invaded, though I think that would have been a draw or a narrow Bowser victory. And even this battle wasn't a ROFLSTOMP, because Robotnik pushed Bowser close to the limit.
E.G.G.M.A.N.
B.O.W.S.E.R
Bowser FTW
But what about dreamy Bowser?
Definitely a threat; as it to can get up to multiversal scaling, and it's powers to do whatever Bowser wants is more than impressive too. I definitely think it's Bowser's best form, with it's only real competition being Pure Heart-amped Bowser for potentially greater stats...I wonder if Death Battle could let Bowser use the Pure Hearts in his Dreamy Form for the stats of the former & powers of the latter...
That said, Eggman's units with Super Sonic scaling can contend with Pure Heart/Dreamy Bowser's stats (and depending on who you ask, surpass them) even in a 1v1, & Super Eggman's own reality rewriting can match most of Dreamy Bowser's powers (and what that form alone can't counter from Dreamy can be countered by other hax. In general, I feel confident saying neither side has anything they can throw out the the other side doesn't have a potential answer too).
@@GiftOfKnowledge-np9vg dreamy Bowser has the power of like 1000 or 1000,000 universes the question is can the time eater eat all of that
@@CarlosGarcia91000 By most assumptions, it seems so.
This may be difficult to wrap one's head around and I've had trouble explaining it in the past but like; so the Time eater destroys all of space & time, right? That is, it destroys all of the universe in every time. So it's destroying all of 3-dimensional space across all of a 4th dimension; or but another way, it is destroying the universe once for every second between the start & end of time. This is why, all else being equal, the destruction of one universe's timeline is considered just as potent an attack as destroying a multiverse at once; both show the power to destroy a universe a (presumably) infinite number of times over. 4D multiversal attack potency.
We actually see this in action in the opening cutscene of Sonic; where the Time Eater appears before Classic Sonic and destroys the universe, and at the same time (from it's own perspective) appears before Modern Sonic to destroy the universe at that time too. And in the remake it also appears before Shadow to destroy the universe a 3rd time. And near every level & boss in the game is a crumb left over from a different time the Time Eater destroyed the universe, so that's a minimum of around ~20 times over that Time Eater can destroy the universe (But that is just a minimum of course; much like the Void from Super Paper Mario can destroy a minimum of 8 universes but we presume it's destroying many more universes than just the levels we see).
Just in case you _do_ buy that minimum of the Time Eater only destroying the universe ~20 times over; we can also get into dream universe scaling. Just as Mario has the Dream Depot telling us every person's dream in the Mario-verse is an infinite universe; so too does Sonic have MaginaryWorld, telling us the same of the Sonic-verse. And for both series, it's just kind of presumed that whenever all of reality is threatened, that also includes these dream universes.
So Paper Mario's void isn't _just_ threatening somewhere between 8 & infinite universes, but also a number of dream universes equal to the total population of everyone in that first set of 'between 8 & infinite universes'
(This is why everyone hypes up Paper Mario scaling btw.)
But conversely, the Time Eater isn't _just_ destroying the universe somewhere between 20 & an infinite number of times over, but it's also destroying a dream universe for every single person alive in an instance of the universe it destroys.
(This why everyone hypes up Time Eater scaling btw. (Well, part of it. Enough to make my point anyway. Besides, the rest may or may not be getting retconned, idk.))
@@CarlosGarcia91000 The time eater scales to solaris which means he could scale to infinite universes so yeah
@@Ax_x1om yeah they do scale each other but none of them were gonna destroy infinite universes. They were gonna destroy timelines the difference is Solaris was gonna do the same thing but with dimensions
Team Bowser
Facts Eggman sweep
Nah Bowser sweep
@DjDeadpig only on opposite day lil bro
@@spawnsavage1084 I usually avoid poking at people for what they say because everybody has their favorites, but today my little cousin spent an hour pretending today was "opposite day" and I can't stop laughing at the sheer coincidence with what you said vs what happened in the battle. I hope at least you enjoyed the crazy animation.
Yeah, even with Paper Mario & the IDW Sonic comics counting, Eggman will still be victorious. If they say Bowser wins, there's gonna be a ton of questions.
@smasherthebluecat4682 most likely it will be cleared up with the analysis and the black boxes, no matter what result it is.
I also think Eggman wins i dont really get why so many predict Bowser. Im still rooting Bowser though. I think people are undrselling Bowser minions the Supersar saga and Bowsers inside story side plots give them quite a bit. Also there are these massive bullet bills from Mario Bros Wii. Basically everyone has their one massive versions and Dry Bones and everyone made of stone or metal would not be affected by the Metal Virus. Also Shy guys and suck the life force of robots too, which heals them. Btw you ignored Paper Jam and Color Splash in your Koopaling analysis, which gives them some insane stuff.
@heyguysxd i didn't ignore them, I said in the end of the video that I didn't have time to go through paper Mario or the idw comics for sonic, so if there was something there than I'd love to know. I just think eggmans army is more destructive in the long run.
@plimepf9493 Oh i missed that sorry, but yeah they get plenty of stuff in those Games a little to much to list them here though. I also think Eggmans army is more destructive but Bowser easily has a HUGE numbers advantage.
@heyguysxd bowser's army is more formidable when factoring in powerups and magic. A single goomba could be an imposter bowser thanks to magic. Also, mind control may not do much for eggman due to the sheer Loyalty bowser's minions have. Look into Bowser's minions from the M&L superstar saga 3ds version.
@nintendosegafan4935 i have a lot of that stuff in my notes, but didn't add it because I didn't feel it was too important. I think even with powered up troops, Eggman would still take the army advantage. I also don't believe the mind controlling would work either. Maybe for a few troops but not most of the army
Bowser solos.
I doubt death battle will always follow their own rules---
For example mario vs Sonic--
They said they will only follow logic from the canon games ,not non canon games--
Yeeeeeeet---
They start talking about feats in the non canon games--
Can't they hear themselves when they explain shit...
They constantly breaks their own rules...
How the fuck mario can be faster than sonic--
Game sonic performed amazing feats--
Sonic defeated The END , confirmed to be powerful boss creature across all known sonic games--
That creature is powerful than even freaking solaris who has the power to destroy past , present and future.
All time and space--
Sonic beat it with little help from silver and shadow in their super forms .
But it is confirmed that Sonic is becoming stronger than his previous selves--
Death battle just sucks at doing their research carefully--
They said following canon games ,not non canon games like mario party , smash bros , sonic and mario Olympics---
Boi...they are terrible...
They won't pay attention at all.
They just don't care anymore about logic , what's fair or wrong, as long as we simply watch their video , they still win in the end--
@SadoBlackRoseAngelov well when it comes to death battle rules, I agree sometimes and disagree others. In mario vs. Sonics case, they mainly meant they weren't using any cartoons or any of sonics comics. Death battle has had many different writers and researchers, so I think it just depends on a bunch of different aspects for people to come to their conclusions. Even for this matchup, I think there's a good chance Bowser wins even with my logic, I just personally believe that Eggman has a higher chance with my own logic. There's alot up to interpretation, it's just how they interpret it. I don't come to an episode specifically for a verdict. I only care if their logic makes sense and it's entertaining. In the end it's not like we will ever know who actually wins, but their animations and editing make it worth that click through rate. If you go to the episodes caring really harshly about the verdict, than I think you're setting yourself to be disappointed. They doesn't mean they are above criticism, it just means I criticize them in different ways.
@@plimepf9493but they used the sonic ova which is technically a cartoon. Not only that but they gave mario manga feats
@Damanwithdaplan05 so i think the issue is the lack of understanding what they mean when they say primary source. The games were used as the primary, and the cartoons were used as a secondary, just supporting material. They talked about Mario throwing the dinosaur in the cartoon as comparable to him pulling the chain chomp, they talked about sonics speed in two different cartoons, before talking about running from the black hole, which is what they used for his speed feat. And they used the ova for sonics strength, but only after comparing two other in game feats of similar strength, and I'm certain they only used that feat to make sonic as strong as possible since he's already stat stomped in that category. They used feats that were comparable to game feats, if they weren't close, they wouldn't have used them. As a side note, they didn't say Mario was faster than sonic, just that he's reacted to things on that speed level before. Tldr, they didn't say they weren't using cartoons feats, just that they weren't using anything not supported by the games.
@plimepf9493 but the games are the ONLY CANNON
@Damanwithdaplan05 I've explained it the best I can. If you refuse to acknowledge anything past the games, then you are free to think that. The only thing that changes in that episode is sonic wouldn't get the stalagtite feat, meaning he just gets stomped even harder.
Eggman should destroy him but because death battle are sonic haters they will probably make eggman stub his toe and die.
@scotland8906 shadow beat Ryuko and Archie Silver beat Trunks, Ben singer has shown lots of love for sonic so I'm not sure why you'd come to that conclusion.
@plimepf9493 from people who used to work at screw attack they said alot of people who work at death battle don't like sonic which is why shadow lost to vegeta and mewtwo knuckles lost to donkey kong sonic lost to mario and wally and metal lost to zero even though all those characters should have won those fights and what they said about metal sonic vs cell recently
@scotland8906 i don't really count seasons 1 and 2 in terms of accurate results, seeing as ben singer has said multiple times that those seasons weren't meant to be taken seriously. Even discounting that though, sonic beat mario originally, Eggman technically beat willy, Tails beat Luigi, Amy beat Ramona, and the other two i mentioned. The win / lose ratio is literally 50/50. I don't think that shows any destiny for the series. Plus you can quote what old screwattack employees say, or you can listen to what they say now. Also in that cast they all agreed that metal Sonic wins that fight most likely. I don't think anything shows that they just hate sonic and want that series to always lose when you look.at everything as a whole.
@plimepf9493 I do agree with you but as someone who is a massive sonic fan I always feel like sonic gets a bad wrap sometimes I think the best case of this is shadow vs Mewtwo and shadow vs vegeta (the mewtwo fight is why worse.) But aside from sonic I do think death battle are biased sometimes and do faulty resources. But maybe that's just me.
@scotland8906 There's no denying that there is bias and faulty research at times. I'm just against people saying the whole show is biased. There's so many writers and researchers that I don't think everyone could be like that. They seem to want to find the right answer, but they might still wrong from time to time.