This is great for all the people only going off the streets once every month. For me finding the breakpoint is one of the best things in mountain biking. There where moments I could use abs.
I can see it being good for an older person as well due to loss of reaction time with age. I still like finding that brake point but maybe once you hit 60-70 the reaction time loss makes finding the brakepoint more dangerous?
E bike ABS is on market for a couple of years. The intended main market are rental bikes, where people ride them without being 100% familiar with the bikes and the brakes (a foreign bike is never the same than the own bike which some people almost can ride blind). It prevents the bikes from crashes, and avoids damage to the bike and people renting them from getting hurt. It only works on E bikes (and only on the front axle) , there is no system yet for non electric bikes
@@voennyquavo506 there's one system from Blubrake and another one from Bosch/Magura. But I'm not sure if these systems are sold to normal customers separately. Bosch mid drives are also not sold separately, only to dealers if another broken one is sent to Bosch and to manufacturers
I know firsthand how bad ABS can be on dual sports motorcycles when on gravel strewn descents and sand. I imagine this system is no different. But, for a lot of riders, this will have a lot of appeal. And, if Bosch makes it easy to turn on/off (on motorcycles, it’s rare to be able to turn off the ABS without pulling a fuse), many more will try it. Having the on/off option is the key (as on this prototype).
Agreed! I hate the latest Bosch ABS on my KTM bike, offroad bikes should have the option to turn it off completely, unfortunately, I can't do that, and it shares its fuse with the ECU (F**K you KTM!). I'm thinking of buying a different bike. I will never get used to the unpredictability of ABS in offroad conditions.
@@patrik9666 Yep, when i was looking for a motorcycle non-abs was one of my necessities. It's definitely caused a couple crashes here or there locking up the front end in a bad spot(only on gravel covered pavement!, lol) but at the same time my control over the front brake has gotten way better. i've gotten to the point where i can abs-like semi lockup the front tire on a long dirt descent with no qualms.
those ABS systems tend to be road optimized. The video here shows two modes, one optimized for trails being the key feature. It would be intersting to see if a pro who trained to use this system would be faster or not. If so it would be fascinating stuff, as it would end every 'I can do it better' argument.
Older ABS was terrifying offroad. I've been going down a steep pebble/sand descent offroad on my older BMW 800GS and had basically no brakes and was deciding between hitting the trees or the lake at the bottom. Glad I was able to avoid both. Now on my new KTM the ABS, in offroad mode, is super. I've tested it on some pretty good hills and such and found it to never do anything except stop my bike how I wanted. The new tech is really something else.
Thanks EMBN for an interesting review. Looks good for cautious riders (like me) on loose surfaces. But complex and perhaps vulnerable to all the bashing our bikes get.
Hi Chris! We're glad you enjoyed this one! This sort of technology is great for all riders and riders with perhaps less confidence. As Steve said, it gives the rider less to think about and allows you to focus more on the trail. 👍
Hi there, just reading some comments below. Agree it's a tricky one to communicate, however this really is one of most significant performance improvements on mtb for decades. Probably second only to suspension
Hi Steve, great vid. Looks pretty revolutionary to me. Agree it would take some getting used to but to banish front wheel lock on a steep descent gets my vote!
as a hardtail rider i have learnt to control my front brake because when braking you are mainly using your front brake to slow down because your back wheel is jumping all over the show and its very easy to control the front brake especially by pumping the front shock when braking for more grip or less grip but at the same time alot of newer riders would like it but it does not train them to react to a front wheel lockout lets say they are turning and the front wheel just locks they wont be able to save it
Well it seems like a great idea to me, I am 69 now and still out on my emtb with my latest being a 30 miler around Skiddaw in the lakes. What I have noticed as I have got older is my reaction times are definetly slower and consequently I am a lot slower these days. I think this would be a game changer for me. The only issue I have with this new tech is it is going to lead to a very messy cockpit display wise with the potential for having to have motor display , Garmin display, auto shift display and an ABS display, although to be honest I would probably have to sell the soul of my first born child to afford that lot!
We agree! It does make the sport generally safer for people. This technology is revolutionary for mountain biking, but it's important to remember that with time, the product development of these brakes will be so interesting to see! 👍
I really want this system. It appears to be a natural development and entirely suited to eMTB. As someone who needs all the help I can get, this development will improve my enjoyment no end. To everyone who has the skill to ride without it and lets face it, there are more than a few, don’t knock it as some sort of heresy, as you don’t have to have a bike with it on, or if you do, you can turn it off, just as you can turn the motor off…. after all, wasn’t it just a few years ago that having a motor was ‘cheating’?
I've got ABS (Bosch) in my (motor)bike - works like "allroad settings" in this video. In autumn/winter months is a real help. Only one downside - because stability - ABS increase brake distance a lot when triggered (and small pothole or road bump can trigger it). On this ebike in video, i like Trail mode - i wish have this setting in my motorbike.
What I am seeing now is the modernization of bikes, just as how cars went through this phase in the 80's up to now even. The point is to make the experience better by taking out the unnecessary actions that are no longer needed. Of course you will have die hard fans of the old school ways, just like with car owners who love manual shifting instead of automatics, but technology is coming for bikes now and I think it will create a big shift into simpler, easier, and more fun (in my opinion at least) riding experiences for bikes.
What I am seeing is bikes that used to be straight forward to work on and trouble shoot becoming nightmares. Had an e-bike in work last month with Bosch motor, Bosch connect module, Bosch abs and sram axs dropper and rear mech. So many things that can and do go wrong it’s unreal. Quick jobs have become long drawn out painful affairs on bikes these days.
apparently it's moreso for the rental market so people don't get hurt/etc. Makes sense especially if they've never been on a eMTB or Moto before, might be a bit quick for some.
Imagine just hammering on the brakes over wet roots and only thinking about the upcoming corner. This could be a game changer in the racing world. I could for sure see this becoming commonplace on a dh course, so much so that if you don't have abs on a dh course you won't be competitive. Like anything in biking, once its proven and established on the race course it will become common on rec users rides.
As with motorised vehicles, I'd imagine this will mostly be used for transit rides, i.e. commuters and people going on errands around town, and most mtb riders (and maybe road cyclists too) will rarely if ever touch it.
There's no denying that ABS works well on sealed surfaces, but offroad can be a different story. In regards to driving a four wheel drive, some of the characteristics I've experienced of ABS can be "undesirable" offroad, particularly on the more challenging and technical tracks. I can't really say I'd want ABS on my MTB based on that, however I'd still be interested to see how effective it actually is if someone offered my a ride of an ABS equipped e-bike. It's interesting to see it added to an MTB, considering various modern motorbikes (CRF300L for example) give you the option to switch off the ABS functionality when offroad.
There may be huge difference between a bike and 4wd car. Car, when in offroad mode with differential lock, has all wheels physically connected. So it's almost impossible for one wheel to stop rotating - and skid - because as long as other wheels have traction, it will be transferred via the drivetrain to all wheels. In that case yes, ABS is suboptimal. But on bike, the front wheel is really independent, and when it skids, you loose control.
@@lukasdolezal8245 you usually have quite a long time of front tire skidding before you really lose control though. You can feel it, you can HEAR the knobs loosing traction(they will sing to you on the edge of traction, both on pavement and on the dirt), so you let off a bit on the brake lever, etc.
Like anything people. You have the option to turn it off, or not have it installed at all.... These kinds of applications, like auto shifting, may not be in your wheelhouse... (pun intended) but it very well maybe for other people. Also, this will be huge for bigger bikes, road bikes, the quad mtbs for disabled, etc. etc. Like I said i the last video. The more features like this that are available, the cheaper regular emtbs will get. It can only help the industry.
Motorcycles have both abs and traction control , on mud they Turn them off as it will limit engine power if the motorcycle senses wheel spin , limiting acceleration. Abs in the front wheel does help motorcycles control under braking , and prevents some accidents
It looks like just the front tire is ABS, unlike on Adventure motor bikes. I would like that option with front ABS only. Agreed that it’s useless and scary to have ABS on the rear tire.
@@cjschmitt4882 go do some dirt riding and come back and talk to me.... ABS on a steep descent will have you running on and carrying way too much speed.... Do you see any pro motorcycle enduro racers using it? The answer is no for the above reason. Learning to hold the front tyre on the point of lock up is a skill you need to learn.
@Marty Thompson that just can't be right, a human can't adjust better and faster to a condition like that than a machine. Abs will apply more break, without losing traction
Honestly, I am more excited about the fact that they managed to put digitally actuated break in such a lightweight and compact form. One step further is an integrated brake caliper and the digital mechanism that ditches the hydraulic cable. FULLY WIRELESS COCKPIT WITH ABS!
@@Adam-vm8kp hmm lot of cars have wireless brakes .. its caled Brake-by-wire and is used since 1998 .. so i am not sure u are right it will never be a thing ...
@@1970madreyeah you’re right no safety concerns there or masses of equipment needed, or the backup systems used by most cars fitted with them adding huge weight or size etc. some motorbikes are starting to use them but have it addition to the hydraulic lines, plus I imagine they would feel horrible with zero feel to the brakes. Your car brakes failing whilst on four wheels (albeit at a faster speed but not in rough or dangerous terrain), surrounded in a reinforced structure, surrounded by airbags and a shell that is specifically designed to protect you from impacts is a slightly different scenario when your on a mtb with very minimal protection doing 40mph and your brakes go.
@@1970madre they have wireless parking brakes. They still have regular hydraulic brakes too.. Even in hybrids there's still some sort of mechanical fluid connection between the pedal and the brake pads due to safety reasons.
As I can see, that box should be integrated to the brake caliper and that other diffraction grating should be incorporated into the standard disk. There you go saved your weight even more. I could decry it as Ahem cough splutter I run a 203mm rear disk brake for the last 10 years loI I'm old school from the era of brakes, what brakes so it's like my comfort blanket, but as an enginerd I love to try out any new tech.
Be interesting to see if the EWS-E then the traditional EWS and DH professionals will use this tech. As an aside, how will the governing bodies react to this tech? Accept or reject?
Just a guess, but it won’t affect anything on the back wheel - it’s a front wheel effect (so no change wheelies and manuals I’m guessing). And, it may make little difference to endo’s either, except that in theory whilst confidence will be boosted, braking may be stronger. Hopefully Steve will reply.
Yes it's a great idea and would love it on a Nicolai Eboxx with manual Rohloff, belt drive and Bosch motor or even better upgraded waterproofed near silent ,powerful and smooth 1.3 2018 brose motor shoehorned in with raw aluminium frame with wider swing arm option to fit 4.0 x 26in rear only tyre for beach. N+1. E=Mtb²
What happens when you try to endo turn? Thats a front wheel lock up, but at low speed 🤔Rear wheel would still be turning (at a low speed) meaning the bike would think the front wheel is slipping right?
Probably good for beginners or commuter bikes that have slick tyres when its wet and slippery on the road but I have no need or desire to have that on my bike. Speaking of bikes, I have the same bike as in this video. They covered up all the branding but it's a Mondraker Crafty R. I have upgraded mine to Magura MT7's because the standard SRAM G2 brakes are laughable on such a beast of a bike. Really fantastic bike and I would highly recommend it to anyone who is in the market for an Ebike. It has the stability and strength of an enduro bike while having a steeper head tube than most enduro bikes so you don't get that lazy steering of a slack head angle. It's like the best of both worlds. A bike that can shred no matter if its steep or fast singletrack and it has really efficient suspension so you can go for long distance rides without wasting watts with a wallowy suspension design. Best ebike I have ridden to date.
Thanks for the deep dive 👨🏼🎓 Having driven cars before ABS, this is a welcome system to bikes. Keep in mind, while showcased on this emtb, its more likely penetration will be in the general ebike cycling. And that will be awesome! I don’t have the statistics, but I suspect a lot of biking accidents are front wheel slide out, and those probably cause a lot injuries (again my assumptions). I wouldn’t be okay requiring these except in commercial use. I’d also consider them for my emtb even though I’ve been feathering brakes for 50+ years. One massive spill averted could be worth more than the cost.
Thanks for the support, Paul! You're spot on! Washing your front wheel out has to be the most common form of crash. ABS will certainly prevent this happening as frequently. 👍
I mean... in order to stop you often need to lock up the rear wheel, and in general abs will be mostly useless on mountainbikes just like on dirt bikes
I am 65 and been cycling whole my life. I am very good to braking and never skidded front end off control in summer or winter. Steering and benting arms while full braking give more control.
lol like any company, they are going to have a separate group of people working on this. It's not like they abandoned one their biggest obstacles in terms of customers.
People just shat over the new light trek emtb with TQ motor that is precisely that on Seth or robs YT channel. It’s basically endless moaning under any MTB vid nowadays. Choice is bad apparently.
@@z33r0now3 Tq motor is 10/10 and it's the way the industry is heading. But Abs on mtb is just stupid. There is a reason Enduro or Mx Motorcycles don't have them 🙄
@@Coolcmsc cause you don't want ABS offroad. ABS increases stopping distances on pavement and offroad it doubles the stopping distance. Feather those brakes!
I would buy this in a heart beat but would be better if i can retrofit, i already have a bosch system, now i have to sell a fairly new emtb just to get this, not good im on my second bosch emtb with magura brake upgrades
No thank you. I've been riding motorcycles with ABS for years, and while it's good on sealed surfaces on unsealed surfaces it's not usually as good. On unsealed surfaces you need the rear ABS off and the front ABS needs to be specific to the surface being braked on (it does look like the trail mode is doing this) but I've still been able to stop faster without ABS even with the bike in off road ABS mode. I'm not talking about gravel roads here, I'm talking about loose rocky decents or mud, I have had zero brakes going down hill at times when I've forgotten to turn ABS off, sometimes you just need the ability to lock the wheels (especially the rear)
As I understand it, this emtb ABS is only available for front wheel. I hope they will never do ABS on rear wheel, since locking the rear wheel sometimes is what makes it fun + it is not particularly dangerous. Also ofcourse locking wheel will always give you more braking power. That's just basic physics. That's why we fall over handbars when the front wheel locks. However the reason here is not to stop you faster compared to locking wheel. The reason here is to allow you to use brakes, where otherwise the risk of skidding and falling would restrain you from braking at all, or not braking to the full potential.
ABS brakes on bikes and motorcycles suck in my opinion, Had them on several motorcycles and they add more danger in my opinion than any benefit unless you are a new rider. Learning to feather and control your brakes adds more control, I remember having to make a panic stop on my Harley Road Glide and having the pedal kick my foot off and preventing me from using full brake power because it thought I was going to lock up the brakes....
Agree. I trained myself for months when I first started riding motorcycles, 40 years ago. To me, the ability to stop in an emergency was first and foremost. Started at low speed, say, 29 mph. Lock the rear wheel, modulate the front, learning to shift your weight on the vehicle. Increase the speed as you become comfortable and skilled at that speed. I apply the same to my downhill mtb.
I see ABS brakes or no ABS brakes as a parallel to Clipless peddles or flats. Some will like the ABS and some will not, some will say ABS will mask a lack of braking skill and some will say it makes you better. I think I would prefer to learn without ABS and get that nailed then shift to ABS.
Nice tech from Bosch Ebikes let old people enjoy riding again and I think now the abs is a plus of safety for that people too Same people who cry about Ebikes now they have a new reason for keeping crying
No, because you can turn them off. You have to understand that just because you might not want it on YOUR mtb doesn't mean others don't and that there aren't applications on other bikes especially very heavy bikes where this will be very helpful.
The intended market is not the customer who buys his own bike, it's more thought for E bike rentals, for bikes which are ridden by people who are not as familiar with the bike and the brakes as with the own bike
@@simonm1447 exactly. Plus things like this would be huge for disabled riders in quads bikes, etc.. or just those ultra heavy bikes that have problems slowing down.
@@_Jake.From.Statefarm_ Yeah, there's definitely a market for this system. There will always be bikes on market without it for people who don't need or don't want it, at the moment it's relatively rare and only available with a couple of bikes.
@@simonm1447 exactly. Plus it drives the price of ebikes down that aren't heavily tech influenced. The new Trek mid range super light looks really something to behold. I hear this year all the companies are coming out with game changing bikes.
Very useful when descending on loose stuff, but seems to work by detecting rear wheel motion. Then what happens when you lock the back wheel? Then cost and availability - have to buy a new (& very expensive!) bike, so a no go for me.
No - but because the drivers belong to the best of the world, and it's not wanted to make more difference between the skills of the drivers. Since they drive laps the whole time they know how to brake and how grippy the race track is. Offroad cycling has little to do with race cars
My probably unpopular opinion --- When is a mountain bike no longer a mountain bike....I think we have the answer. Knowing when and how to brake is a skill that needs to be learned and perfected. Not IMO bought.
It's taking the element of fun out of riding. Part of riding is being able to brake properly and not allowing the brakes to do the entire job for you. It's a great idea for racing, but for the average user it's just an extra cost, and extra increase in weight.
Even racing motorcycles (street or dirt) don't have ABS. Why would MTB or e-MTB racing benefit from ABS? ABS is worse for stopping distances on soft surfaces anyway. If the wheel is locked, tire digs in giving you more grip.
So we have auto changing gears and ABS for the brakes. What's next then?, gyroscopic frames to stop the bike from tipping over???, auto anti collision cameras, trail identification to make sure you stay on track. What a load of faff, get on your bike and ride!
It's exciting to see technology inspired by the motor industry come over to e-bikes. It's good to make the sport safer for all riders, but as mountain bikers we'll always love that raw feel to a bike. 👍
Hating the fact that Bosch doesn’t want you to retrofit . I assumed that owning a Bosch Smart system ebike would open the possibilities of upgrading it over the next few years with all the new tech that will inevitably come out, but I can see they’re already making sure we cant. Disappointing . Certainly feel like I got the iphone of ebikes, everything’s under lockdown. I cant even plug in a head or taillight without having to jump through hoops with the dealership to get them “activated”.
Worst thing about emtbs for sure, it's never actually yours. If bosch stopped supporting a feature and it goes wrong, that's it. You're at the mercy of manufacturers. Whereas a bicycle from 20 years ago can still be serviced or upgraded no problem.
In our group, of all the crashes, every single one involved loosing the front. None of those had anything to do with braking. Not one. That’s not to say abs won’t help, that is to say it’s nowhere near the life saver it’s often made out to be.
it is very very cool but just like self driving cars its too easy that people loose skill. Its kinda sad to watch the world grow, at the same time its extremely exiting and cool.
This is great for all the people only going off the streets once every month. For me finding the breakpoint is one of the best things in mountain biking.
There where moments I could use abs.
I can see it being good for an older person as well due to loss of reaction time with age. I still like finding that brake point but maybe once you hit 60-70 the reaction time loss makes finding the brakepoint more dangerous?
@@0xsergy and for bikes you do not use the breakpoint usually like commute bikes and for all the casual riders.
Great idea, Bosch! I will definitely getting these when they trickle down.
E bike ABS is on market for a couple of years. The intended main market are rental bikes, where people ride them without being 100% familiar with the bikes and the brakes (a foreign bike is never the same than the own bike which some people almost can ride blind). It prevents the bikes from crashes, and avoids damage to the bike and people renting them from getting hurt.
It only works on E bikes (and only on the front axle) , there is no system yet for non electric bikes
Hey, links to where I can buy an ebike ABS
@@voennyquavo506 there's one system from Blubrake and another one from Bosch/Magura. But I'm not sure if these systems are sold to normal customers separately.
Bosch mid drives are also not sold separately, only to dealers if another broken one is sent to Bosch and to manufacturers
@@simonm1447 thanks simon. I hope I find one
1966 I saw the Beatles in San Francisco I was 13 cheers from Northern California!!!
I know firsthand how bad ABS can be on dual sports motorcycles when on gravel strewn descents and sand. I imagine this system is no different. But, for a lot of riders, this will have a lot of appeal. And, if Bosch makes it easy to turn on/off (on motorcycles, it’s rare to be able to turn off the ABS without pulling a fuse), many more will try it. Having the on/off option is the key (as on this prototype).
Agreed! I hate the latest Bosch ABS on my KTM bike, offroad bikes should have the option to turn it off completely, unfortunately, I can't do that, and it shares its fuse with the ECU (F**K you KTM!). I'm thinking of buying a different bike. I will never get used to the unpredictability of ABS in offroad conditions.
@@patrik9666 exactly. Counter intuitively, ABS helps the least when going off-road, as it extends braking distance dramatically.
@@patrik9666 Yep, when i was looking for a motorcycle non-abs was one of my necessities. It's definitely caused a couple crashes here or there locking up the front end in a bad spot(only on gravel covered pavement!, lol) but at the same time my control over the front brake has gotten way better. i've gotten to the point where i can abs-like semi lockup the front tire on a long dirt descent with no qualms.
those ABS systems tend to be road optimized. The video here shows two modes, one optimized for trails being the key feature. It would be intersting to see if a pro who trained to use this system would be faster or not. If so it would be fascinating stuff, as it would end every 'I can do it better' argument.
Older ABS was terrifying offroad. I've been going down a steep pebble/sand descent offroad on my older BMW 800GS and had basically no brakes and was deciding between hitting the trees or the lake at the bottom. Glad I was able to avoid both. Now on my new KTM the ABS, in offroad mode, is super. I've tested it on some pretty good hills and such and found it to never do anything except stop my bike how I wanted. The new tech is really something else.
Looking forward to the introduction of a seat belt tech and a ashtray
🤣
Thanks EMBN for an interesting review. Looks good for cautious riders (like me) on loose surfaces. But complex and perhaps vulnerable to all the bashing our bikes get.
Hi Chris! We're glad you enjoyed this one! This sort of technology is great for all riders and riders with perhaps less confidence. As Steve said, it gives the rider less to think about and allows you to focus more on the trail. 👍
I usually ride wet, greasy, slippery conditions. So, I'm intrigued... I'd like to try it.
Some feed back I've heard was, it's a game changer.
Hi there, just reading some comments below. Agree it's a tricky one to communicate, however this really is one of most significant performance improvements on mtb for decades. Probably second only to suspension
Hi Steve, great vid. Looks pretty revolutionary to me. Agree it would take some getting used to but to banish front wheel lock on a steep descent gets my vote!
I agree.
What do you think of the mondy? Poor bike didn’t even get a mention 😂
as a hardtail rider i have learnt to control my front brake because when braking you are mainly using your front brake to slow down because your back wheel is jumping all over the show and its very easy to control the front brake especially by pumping the front shock when braking for more grip or less grip but at the same time alot of newer riders would like it but it does not train them to react to a front wheel lockout lets say they are turning and the front wheel just locks they wont be able to save it
Well it seems like a great idea to me, I am 69 now and still out on my emtb with my latest being a 30 miler around Skiddaw in the lakes. What I have noticed as I have got older is my reaction times are definetly slower and consequently I am a lot slower these days. I think this would be a game changer for me. The only issue I have with this new tech is it is going to lead to a very messy cockpit display wise with the potential for having to have motor display , Garmin display, auto shift display and an ABS display, although to be honest I would probably have to sell the soul of my first born child to afford that lot!
We agree! It does make the sport generally safer for people. This technology is revolutionary for mountain biking, but it's important to remember that with time, the product development of these brakes will be so interesting to see! 👍
@@embn probably safer as long as you're not going into corners faster because of added sense of security.
It will get integration with time, all into one display
I'm 69 too, can I have some likes?
I really want this system. It appears to be a natural development and entirely suited to eMTB. As someone who needs all the help I can get, this development will improve my enjoyment no end. To everyone who has the skill to ride without it and lets face it, there are more than a few, don’t knock it as some sort of heresy, as you don’t have to have a bike with it on, or if you do, you can turn it off, just as you can turn the motor off…. after all, wasn’t it just a few years ago that having a motor was ‘cheating’?
I can't believe Steve is mid-fifties! He wears it well!
We want to know what your thoughts are on Bosch's Anti Lock Braking System! Let us know below!💭👇
I've got ABS (Bosch) in my (motor)bike - works like "allroad settings" in this video.
In autumn/winter months is a real help.
Only one downside - because stability - ABS increase brake distance a lot when triggered (and small pothole or road bump can trigger it).
On this ebike in video, i like Trail mode - i wish have this setting in my motorbike.
pish
My ABS is my trigger finger. 😊
I can understand abs for your front wheel to stop wash outs, but locking the rear wheel is useful, and fun
Amazing, Bosch please the wireless version asap XD, we want less cables not more. can't wait to try it out.
I am all for it, as long as it drive the price of bikes even more.
I was on a race and i had abs on my dh also. My headset was loose, my brake rotor was loose. It felt Like a dream
227g is mightily impressive. I can see this giving competition riders an advantage if it’s legal . Looking forward to this trickling down .
Not an advantage for people racing on dirt but if these become light and safe enough than it would be a huge advantage in road racing
What I am seeing now is the modernization of bikes, just as how cars went through this phase in the 80's up to now even. The point is to make the experience better by taking out the unnecessary actions that are no longer needed. Of course you will have die hard fans of the old school ways, just like with car owners who love manual shifting instead of automatics, but technology is coming for bikes now and I think it will create a big shift into simpler, easier, and more fun (in my opinion at least) riding experiences for bikes.
What I am seeing is bikes that used to be straight forward to work on and trouble shoot becoming nightmares. Had an e-bike in work last month with Bosch motor, Bosch connect module, Bosch abs and sram axs dropper and rear mech. So many things that can and do go wrong it’s unreal. Quick jobs have become long drawn out painful affairs on bikes these days.
How are you going to do endo turns if you can't lock your front wheel?
Turn it off!
But don’t worry you don’t have to buy it if you don’t like it so don’t cry
Thanks for the video. Gonna be overkill for a while, but still awesome.
apparently it's moreso for the rental market so people don't get hurt/etc. Makes sense especially if they've never been on a eMTB or Moto before, might be a bit quick for some.
Probably not something I would want/need but super cool to see it functional and implemented. New tech is always sick
What about if you do Dh roots in the rain with lots of switchbacks and lots of exposure?
Nice of Bosch to try to fix a problem that really isn't a problem unless you're a casual e-biker who doesn't how to use brakes properly
Imagine just hammering on the brakes over wet roots and only thinking about the upcoming corner. This could be a game changer in the racing world. I could for sure see this becoming commonplace on a dh course, so much so that if you don't have abs on a dh course you won't be competitive. Like anything in biking, once its proven and established on the race course it will become common on rec users rides.
Tbf I could imagine this being a life saver on the front on wet roots but I still want the option to lock up the wheels if I need to
As with motorised vehicles, I'd imagine this will mostly be used for transit rides, i.e. commuters and people going on errands around town, and most mtb riders (and maybe road cyclists too) will rarely if ever touch it.
There's no denying that ABS works well on sealed surfaces, but offroad can be a different story. In regards to driving a four wheel drive, some of the characteristics I've experienced of ABS can be "undesirable" offroad, particularly on the more challenging and technical tracks.
I can't really say I'd want ABS on my MTB based on that, however I'd still be interested to see how effective it actually is if someone offered my a ride of an ABS equipped e-bike.
It's interesting to see it added to an MTB, considering various modern motorbikes (CRF300L for example) give you the option to switch off the ABS functionality when offroad.
There may be huge difference between a bike and 4wd car. Car, when in offroad mode with differential lock, has all wheels physically connected. So it's almost impossible for one wheel to stop rotating - and skid - because as long as other wheels have traction, it will be transferred via the drivetrain to all wheels. In that case yes, ABS is suboptimal. But on bike, the front wheel is really independent, and when it skids, you loose control.
@@lukasdolezal8245 you usually have quite a long time of front tire skidding before you really lose control though. You can feel it, you can HEAR the knobs loosing traction(they will sing to you on the edge of traction, both on pavement and on the dirt), so you let off a bit on the brake lever, etc.
for the records first mtb brakes with abs was Brovedani ABS brake in 1996 (?) of course it was passive and pretty bad but it was🙂
Like anything people. You have the option to turn it off, or not have it installed at all....
These kinds of applications, like auto shifting, may not be in your wheelhouse... (pun intended) but it very well maybe for other people.
Also, this will be huge for bigger bikes, road bikes, the quad mtbs for disabled, etc. etc.
Like I said i the last video. The more features like this that are available, the cheaper regular emtbs will get.
It can only help the industry.
Useless on dirt. Great on tar. Just ask motorbike riders. It's why you can turn ABS off on adventure motorbikes.
Motorcycles have both abs and traction control , on mud they Turn them off as it will limit engine power if the motorcycle senses wheel spin , limiting acceleration. Abs in the front wheel does help motorcycles control under braking , and prevents some accidents
and why do you think it's useless on dirt? This entire video showed you how useful it is!
It looks like just the front tire is ABS, unlike on Adventure motor bikes. I would like that option with front ABS only. Agreed that it’s useless and scary to have ABS on the rear tire.
@@cjschmitt4882 go do some dirt riding and come back and talk to me.... ABS on a steep descent will have you running on and carrying way too much speed.... Do you see any pro motorcycle enduro racers using it? The answer is no for the above reason. Learning to hold the front tyre on the point of lock up is a skill you need to learn.
@Marty Thompson that just can't be right, a human can't adjust better and faster to a condition like that than a machine. Abs will apply more break, without losing traction
Improved Steerability... As technology evolves, so needs to follow wording!
😄 Good one!
Does it have anti-OTB as well?
Honestly, I am more excited about the fact that they managed to put digitally actuated break in such a lightweight and compact form. One step further is an integrated brake caliper and the digital mechanism that ditches the hydraulic cable. FULLY WIRELESS COCKPIT WITH ABS!
Wireless brakes will never be a thing, far too many safety concerns.
@@Adam-vm8kp hmm lot of cars have wireless brakes .. its caled Brake-by-wire and is used since 1998 .. so i am not sure u are right it will never be a thing ...
@@1970madreyeah you’re right no safety concerns there or masses of equipment needed, or the backup systems used by most cars fitted with them adding huge weight or size etc. some motorbikes are starting to use them but have it addition to the hydraulic lines, plus I imagine they would feel horrible with zero feel to the brakes. Your car brakes failing whilst on four wheels (albeit at a faster speed but not in rough or dangerous terrain), surrounded in a reinforced structure, surrounded by airbags and a shell that is specifically designed to protect you from impacts is a slightly different scenario when your on a mtb with very minimal protection doing 40mph and your brakes go.
@@1970madre they have wireless parking brakes. They still have regular hydraulic brakes too..
Even in hybrids there's still some sort of mechanical fluid connection between the pedal and the brake pads due to safety reasons.
As I can see, that box should be integrated to the brake caliper and that other diffraction grating should be incorporated into the standard disk. There you go saved your weight even more. I could decry it as Ahem cough splutter I run a 203mm rear disk brake for the last 10 years loI I'm old school from the era of brakes, what brakes so it's like my comfort blanket, but as an enginerd I love to try out any new tech.
Damn, why they don't sell to aftermarket? This is a very critical safety feature that we all must have the possibility to buy.
So what about the times when you DO want to skid the rear wheel?
It only works on the front. The rear just has the sensor because the system needs to know if the wheel is spinning
Not available in the USA bummer. Cheers from Northern California!!!
Be interesting to see if the EWS-E then the traditional EWS and DH professionals will use this tech. As an aside, how will the governing bodies react to this tech? Accept or reject?
I would love to have this on a drop bar gravel bike
Wow. Thank you for your input! But idk, where should this all go...? :D
i want to know where everyone is finding their local trails/spots ?! beautiful terrains to ride on however very hard to find at times
how does this effect endo's and brake feathering with wheelies and manuals?
Just a guess, but it won’t affect anything on the back wheel - it’s a front wheel effect (so no change wheelies and manuals I’m guessing). And, it may make little difference to endo’s either, except that in theory whilst confidence will be boosted, braking may be stronger. Hopefully Steve will reply.
Yes it's a great idea and would love it on a Nicolai Eboxx with manual Rohloff, belt drive and Bosch motor or even better upgraded waterproofed near silent ,powerful and smooth 1.3 2018 brose motor shoehorned in with raw aluminium frame with wider swing arm option to fit 4.0 x 26in rear only tyre for beach. N+1. E=Mtb²
Did you shart at 6:11?
So what happens if you want to pull the ejector seat and can't crash to bail out...straight over the cliff then??
What happens when you try to endo turn? Thats a front wheel lock up, but at low speed 🤔Rear wheel would still be turning (at a low speed) meaning the bike would think the front wheel is slipping right?
How are they measuring the „real groundspeed of the bike???“
Can you do front wheelie with abs brake? 😄
you look very good and healthy for a 56 years young man..
What is the diameter of the tires?
Looks good for the future especially for the wet days .👌. That Mondraker looks from a distance like a skinny top tube steel frame????? E=Mtb²
Probably good for beginners or commuter bikes that have slick tyres when its wet and slippery on the road but I have no need or desire to have that on my bike.
Speaking of bikes, I have the same bike as in this video. They covered up all the branding but it's a Mondraker Crafty R. I have upgraded mine to Magura MT7's because the standard SRAM G2 brakes are laughable on such a beast of a bike. Really fantastic bike and I would highly recommend it to anyone who is in the market for an Ebike. It has the stability and strength of an enduro bike while having a steeper head tube than most enduro bikes so you don't get that lazy steering of a slack head angle. It's like the best of both worlds. A bike that can shred no matter if its steep or fast singletrack and it has really efficient suspension so you can go for long distance rides without wasting watts with a wallowy suspension design. Best ebike I have ridden to date.
Is AUDI sponsoring this video? Nice car in the video!
How about cruise control next?
You are doing riding like that at 56? That's insane.
brilliant cheers
Probably the coolest tech we will see for a bit but I'm not sure I want it
Thanks for the deep dive 👨🏼🎓 Having driven cars before ABS, this is a welcome system to bikes. Keep in mind, while showcased on this emtb, its more likely penetration will be in the general ebike cycling. And that will be awesome! I don’t have the statistics, but I suspect a lot of biking accidents are front wheel slide out, and those probably cause a lot injuries (again my assumptions). I wouldn’t be okay requiring these except in commercial use. I’d also consider them for my emtb even though I’ve been feathering brakes for 50+ years. One massive spill averted could be worth more than the cost.
Thanks for the support, Paul! You're spot on! Washing your front wheel out has to be the most common form of crash. ABS will certainly prevent this happening as frequently. 👍
@ 10:56 WTF happened to the audio?
Esp next
But can it still do endo's? 🤔
Wow quite the thing! If it’s safer I’m in…
I mean... in order to stop you often need to lock up the rear wheel, and in general abs will be mostly useless on mountainbikes just like on dirt bikes
I'll stick to my.b.s thank you! Be great for beginners though.
Better braking on my 50 lb Levo would be a welcome feature.
ABS don't helps increasing the brake force, for more brake force you need bigger rotors or a brake with more brake force (like a 4 piston)
I am 65 and been cycling whole my life. I am very good to braking and never skidded front end off control in summer or winter. Steering and benting arms while full braking give more control.
Won’t be long now before E-bikes are basically full blown motorbikes.
With auto pilot , so we don't have to have any skill at all . This crap is getting stupid
Absolutely true.
@@rickywoods3101 don’t cry you don’t have to buy it
@@rickywoods3101 lol road cyclist spotted.
Damn shame it's not aftermarket, I'd love to put this in my SurRon.
Remember seeing a shark tank about this years ago
Next year traction control. Soon it will become motorcycle. Pedals will be there for legal purposes :)
Everybody: Make lighter engines with no rattle and better integration overall
Bosch: No, no what you really want is ABS on your MTB 🤦♂️
lol like any company, they are going to have a separate group of people working on this. It's not like they abandoned one their biggest obstacles in terms of customers.
People just shat over the new light trek emtb with TQ motor that is precisely that on Seth or robs YT channel. It’s basically endless moaning under any MTB vid nowadays. Choice is bad apparently.
@@z33r0now3 Tq motor is 10/10 and it's the way the industry is heading. But Abs on mtb is just stupid. There is a reason Enduro or Mx Motorcycles don't have them 🙄
@@LaVale- I’m not an off-road motorbike rider, so, can you explain a little why ABS isn’t common (or found) on off road motorcycles please?
@@Coolcmsc cause you don't want ABS offroad. ABS increases stopping distances on pavement and offroad it doubles the stopping distance. Feather those brakes!
Are we going to see auto inflation tyres soon ?
No ..but tire pressure monitors
Wait a minute. Does ABS support mean that I can get away with smaller rotors?
I would buy this in a heart beat but would be better if i can retrofit, i already have a bosch system, now i have to sell a fairly new emtb just to get this, not good im on my second bosch emtb with magura brake upgrades
Send it to Bernard kerr and see how far he can stoppie with it
No thank you. I've been riding motorcycles with ABS for years, and while it's good on sealed surfaces on unsealed surfaces it's not usually as good. On unsealed surfaces you need the rear ABS off and the front ABS needs to be specific to the surface being braked on (it does look like the trail mode is doing this) but I've still been able to stop faster without ABS even with the bike in off road ABS mode. I'm not talking about gravel roads here, I'm talking about loose rocky decents or mud, I have had zero brakes going down hill at times when I've forgotten to turn ABS off, sometimes you just need the ability to lock the wheels (especially the rear)
As I understand it, this emtb ABS is only available for front wheel. I hope they will never do ABS on rear wheel, since locking the rear wheel sometimes is what makes it fun + it is not particularly dangerous.
Also ofcourse locking wheel will always give you more braking power. That's just basic physics. That's why we fall over handbars when the front wheel locks. However the reason here is not to stop you faster compared to locking wheel. The reason here is to allow you to use brakes, where otherwise the risk of skidding and falling would restrain you from braking at all, or not braking to the full potential.
ABS brakes on bikes and motorcycles suck in my opinion, Had them on several motorcycles and they add more danger in my opinion than any benefit unless you are a new rider. Learning to feather and control your brakes adds more control, I remember having to make a panic stop on my Harley Road Glide and having the pedal kick my foot off and preventing me from using full brake power because it thought I was going to lock up the brakes....
Agree. I trained myself for months when I first started riding motorcycles, 40 years ago. To me, the ability to stop in an emergency was first and foremost. Started at low speed, say, 29 mph. Lock the rear wheel, modulate the front, learning to shift your weight on the vehicle. Increase the speed as you become comfortable and skilled at that speed. I apply the same to my downhill mtb.
My bike have either abs because the brakes aren't that strong so it's never lose traction
Isnt this bike a mondraker ?
I see ABS brakes or no ABS brakes as a parallel to Clipless peddles or flats. Some will like the ABS and some will not, some will say ABS will mask a lack of braking skill and some will say it makes you better. I think I would prefer to learn without ABS and get that nailed then shift to ABS.
Nice tech from Bosch
Ebikes let old people enjoy riding again and I think now the abs is a plus of safety for that people too
Same people who cry about Ebikes now they have a new reason for keeping crying
Automatic shifting yesterday, ABS for bikes today. Can we all agree that things are going too far?
No, because you can turn them off. You have to understand that just because you might not want it on YOUR mtb doesn't mean others don't and that there aren't applications on other bikes especially very heavy bikes where this will be very helpful.
The intended market is not the customer who buys his own bike, it's more thought for E bike rentals, for bikes which are ridden by people who are not as familiar with the bike and the brakes as with the own bike
@@simonm1447 exactly. Plus things like this would be huge for disabled riders in quads bikes, etc.. or just those ultra heavy bikes that have problems slowing down.
@@_Jake.From.Statefarm_ Yeah, there's definitely a market for this system. There will always be bikes on market without it for people who don't need or don't want it, at the moment it's relatively rare and only available with a couple of bikes.
@@simonm1447 exactly. Plus it drives the price of ebikes down that aren't heavily tech influenced. The new Trek mid range super light looks really something to behold. I hear this year all the companies are coming out with game changing bikes.
Very useful when descending on loose stuff, but seems to work by detecting rear wheel motion. Then what happens when you lock the back wheel? Then cost and availability - have to buy a new (& very expensive!) bike, so a no go for me.
It going to be a standard, quite soon, because of safety
I am glad to see the system on a Mondraker, just might have to get another one...
Send a natural progression, only downside more kit added to the bike and another thing to go wrong, but that's technology.
do f1 cars have abs?
No - but because the drivers belong to the best of the world, and it's not wanted to make more difference between the skills of the drivers. Since they drive laps the whole time they know how to brake and how grippy the race track is.
Offroad cycling has little to do with race cars
Do MX/trail guys activated ABS on dirt? No, they disconnect it
My probably unpopular opinion --- When is a mountain bike no longer a mountain bike....I think we have the answer. Knowing when and how to brake is a skill that needs to be learned and perfected. Not IMO bought.
It's taking the element of fun out of riding. Part of riding is being able to brake properly and not allowing the brakes to do the entire job for you. It's a great idea for racing, but for the average user it's just an extra cost, and extra increase in weight.
Even racing motorcycles (street or dirt) don't have ABS. Why would MTB or e-MTB racing benefit from ABS? ABS is worse for stopping distances on soft surfaces anyway. If the wheel is locked, tire digs in giving you more grip.
So we have auto changing gears and ABS for the brakes. What's next then?, gyroscopic frames to stop the bike from tipping over???, auto anti collision cameras, trail identification to make sure you stay on track. What a load of faff, get on your bike and ride!
You forgot coffee holder
Don’t cry you don’t have to but nothing
No one forces it down your throat, it’s optional 🤦
It's exciting to see technology inspired by the motor industry come over to e-bikes. It's good to make the sport safer for all riders, but as mountain bikers we'll always love that raw feel to a bike. 👍
Yeah…. That’s what we used to say about suspension too….
may as well use hope(less) brakes.. they aren't able to lock up and I'm sure they will be cheaper
Am I the only one who hears a fart at 6:11?
I thought that was fortunate son at first .
Hating the fact that Bosch doesn’t want you to retrofit . I assumed that owning a Bosch Smart system ebike would open the possibilities of upgrading it over the next few years with all the new tech that will inevitably come out, but I can see they’re already making sure we cant. Disappointing . Certainly feel like I got the iphone of ebikes, everything’s under lockdown. I cant even plug in a head or taillight without having to jump through hoops with the dealership to get them “activated”.
Worst thing about emtbs for sure, it's never actually yours. If bosch stopped supporting a feature and it goes wrong, that's it. You're at the mercy of manufacturers.
Whereas a bicycle from 20 years ago can still be serviced or upgraded no problem.
Something no one actually needs or can afford, instead of building more reliable cheaper bikes so more people can afford to ride.
Said like a true communist against progression. On this theme let’s ban e bikes and force people to have conventional bikes?
In our group, of all the crashes, every single one involved loosing the front. None of those had anything to do with braking. Not one.
That’s not to say abs won’t help, that is to say it’s nowhere near the life saver it’s often made out to be.
it is very very cool but just like self driving cars its too easy that people loose skill. Its kinda sad to watch the world grow, at the same time its extremely exiting and cool.