Blindly Accepting Terms and Conditions? - Computerphile

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  • Опубліковано 4 лют 2014
  • Terms & Conditions as complicated to read as the epic poem Beowulf. How many times have you clicked 'agree' without reading any further? Professor Tom Rodden explains.
    EXTRA BITS - More on T's & C's: • EXTRA BITS: Big Data a...
    Security of Data on Disk: • Security of Data on Di...
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    This video was filmed and edited by Sean Riley.
    Computer Science at the University of Nottingham: bit.ly/nottscomputer
    Computerphile is a sister project to Brady Haran's Numberphile. See the full list of Brady's video projects at: bit.ly/bradychannels

КОМЕНТАРІ • 316

  • @publicsafetydan
    @publicsafetydan 10 років тому +126

    I once created a simple file sharing site, which had a 36 page terms agreement. On page 31 I indicated that any use of my service gave me full rights to all their property, as well as any children they may have. In one month 300 people agreed, only 2 declined.

  • @wreynolds1995
    @wreynolds1995 10 років тому +254

    I actually try to skim through some of the terms and conditions that are presented to me, and at least half of the time, at the bottom of the terms and conditions, it says something along the lines of "We reserve the right to change these terms and conditions at any time without notifying you." Why is this even legal?

  • @ryannickens7848
    @ryannickens7848 9 років тому +146

    I think all those Terms and Conditions agreements should be changed to a simple box and the phrase "We can do whatever we want and you can't sue us"

  • @felixironfist2975
    @felixironfist2975 9 років тому +74

    As a translator I once had to chug through a the Terms and Conditions for one service in a certain hotel chain. There were like 70 pages of dense legal text I was barely even capable of understanding, being just ouf of my colledge, but here's what it all basically said:
    1) We are offering you a discount.
    2) But in fact, we are not.
    3) You have to pay us first, and then we give you your money back as a "discount"
    4) If your wife or kids want to use the discount - they can't.
    5) In fact, if the stars and moon are in the wrong positions in the sky - your discount is null and void.

  • @David_Last_Name
    @David_Last_Name 8 років тому +246

    I would say the main reason people just automatically click "I accept" isn't because we are too lazy to read them, but rather it's because we have no choice. It's not like we can ever select "no" to the terms and conditions but still purchase/download/sign up for whatever it is that we are trying to get. We know that if we want that item, we will have to click yes. So since it won't make any difference, THAT's why we don't bother to read them. I guarantee you if there was an option to still sign up for google but deselect the "we will sell your personal information to everyone" option, we would all spend a LOT more time reading these things. But since we are never given a choice, why bother? Even if I read every word of the terms and conditions I am still forced to click yes anyway.

  • @boo453
    @boo453 9 років тому +100

    I once read the T&Cs once for the hell of it, and the website I was using timed-out

  • @dafl00
    @dafl00 10 років тому +84

    My high school English teacher made us read Beowulf in the old English.
    Didn't prepare me for Google's terms and conditions...

  • @BinkieMcFartnuggets
    @BinkieMcFartnuggets 10 років тому +245

    I only read the terms, I don't have time for all those damn conditions.

  • @TerraOmnia
    @TerraOmnia 10 років тому +25

    I'm always put off by this one: Terms and conditions may be changed at any time without notification or consent.
    Maybe I should start a company that literally just rewrites the terms and conditions to say "You owe us all your money" after they've accepted. Because that's apparently legal.

  • @simonenoli4418
    @simonenoli4418 9 років тому +65

    The phrase i hate most of every t&c i read so far is "the company reserves the right to change any part of the agreement without prior notice". Its like i try to sell you a car for an amount of money and then i change the agreement and give you a puppy instead. Most of the time they will say they will communicate you IF any change has been made. But they write the mail in a way that any lowlevel spam filter will automatically "trash it". I receive 50/70 spams daily. How i am supposed to check every and each of it? If they want to change the agreement i feel is more than natural that me, the other end of the deal. Agree to the new t&c. Otherwise the contract should be either nullified or kept as the signed deal until its end.

  • @suziequeue6510
    @suziequeue6510 10 років тому +49

    Years ago (1970's or 80's) US passed laws against "over-information"; that is, too much and overwhelming information in contracts. What ever happened to those laws? Why aren't these laws being enforced?

  • @daemonryuou4849
    @daemonryuou4849 10 років тому +41

    The fact that TaC's are written in such a way that it is practically impossible for the average person to understand and that the documents are too ridiculously long to read (realistically speaking, some TaC's could take you over a month to read and review), I believe that TaC's should not be considered legally binding.
    It is not lawful in any way to say, "But aha! you agreed on article 12, chapter 36, page 4, paragraph 7, argument 2, clause 5 that we reserve the right to appanage services of the avant garde! Thus we are legally permitted to share any and all personal information we have collected about you with third parties!
    It should be a rule of thumb that TaC's are only legally binding to what can realistically be read of it within 5 minutes. If the providers of the service do something that affects the user in a negative way outside of that, they should be held legally responsible, regardless of whether or not they stated that they were going to do so in the later fine print.
    What modern TaC's are doing today is nothing short of embezzlement and contract fraud.

    • @eideticex
      @eideticex 10 років тому +5

      I think but am not certain that there are laws to protect us from things like T&C which you personally can't understand.

  • @kourii
    @kourii 10 років тому +45

    'I wouldn't want to suggest they're deliberately hiding truth'
    Well I would.

  • @xrayfishx
    @xrayfishx 10 років тому +13

    Some gaming company, I think it was Bohemia Interactive or Bethesda, put an easter egg in the terms and conditions. Basically they offered a large amount of money to the first person (I think) who found that part. It was about 2 years later that someone asked about that money.

  • @Huwarf
    @Huwarf 10 років тому +24

    "We have changed out T's & C's, would you like to read it?" *shows you all the 300 pages not the changes*

  • @mkaatr
    @mkaatr 10 років тому +18

    How would anyone remember all the T&C he agreed to? For example do you remember the details of the following?
    Windows T&C, Office T&C, Chrome T&C, Gmail T&C, UA-cam T&C, Yahoo T&C, Hotmail T&C, Skype T&C, and the T&C for every other website you registered on?
    There is no way you could remember them all specially for the ones you agreed few years ago. Some even change the T&C.

  • @LividImp
    @LividImp 10 років тому +41

    What I'd love to know is what is the alternative here? If you read the T&C for the water utility and you don't like something on it, what are we supposed to do, drill a well through the pavement in Manhattan? Read by candlelight if you don't like the power company's T&C? There is always someone telling us to read the T&C, but they don't address what to do if you don't like what you see.

    • @233kosta
      @233kosta 10 років тому +4

      Buy some solar panels :D

    • @Mostlyharmless1985
      @Mostlyharmless1985 10 років тому +15

      I remember a story where a Russian man added a few riders to a credit card contract, then signed it and sent it back, and the credit card company didn't reject the changed contract. 0% APR with no fees, with no fees or charges imposed by bank tariffs, also added a clause that would protect him if the bank broke the agreement, the customer would be payed 3 million rubles, and if canceled, 6 million rubles. As far as I know, it held up in court. Contracts work both ways.

    • @TehNinth
      @TehNinth 10 років тому +4

      Basically they're saying that if you don't agree to the terms and conditions then you should not use their service.
      Of course, you could contact them and get a separate contract, if you can be bothered.

  • @delusionnnnn
    @delusionnnnn 10 років тому +79

    I think the complexity of EULAs stems from the fact that they are not written for users to protect users' rights: they are written by lawyers to protect the rights of the company which employs them, and the only way this will change is, in an environment of consumer protection, we stop affording companies rights which are written in ways that the user is not specifically meant to understand them.
    Currently, it's CYA, and the only way that changes is if we stop allowing this sort of dense legalese to be sufficient cover.

    • @ScarfmonsterWR
      @ScarfmonsterWR 10 років тому +6

      There is also the problem that EULAs and T&C and other such things must be written in the "language of the law", as in, many phrases have to be phrased as they are or else they are legally invalid and not binding or they may have holes which could be exploited in a bad way in courts.
      I think the problem lies not with the complexity of the T&C but more in the complexity of the language the law uses in general. And often it's an archaic language, what with some rules written literally ages ago that require you to quote them in your legal texts.

    • @AutodidacticPhd
      @AutodidacticPhd 10 років тому +4

      You're being too kind. It isn't to protect the rights of the company... those things are written to exploit the user. The company being as big as it is and having a legal department of its own is enough for protection. What they want is to get you to sign away your rights. Totally different ball game.

    • @delusionnnnn
      @delusionnnnn 10 років тому +4

      AutodidacticPhd Unfortunately, these days "the rights of the company" are, essentially, the same thing as exploiting the user, particularly in the case of many software and website user account terms. To touch on what Scarfmonster (WR) says, while these rights may have to be delineated in the law, governments serious about customer protections should force the company to write a sufficiently meaningful overview in everyday language.

    • @AutodidacticPhd
      @AutodidacticPhd 10 років тому +3

      delusionnnnn
      When exploitation becomes a "right" then you know the word has lost all meaning.
      Also, merely dumbing the terms down is insufficient. If you have no choice but to use a product, then any request for a transfer of your rights is extortion. Governments are (both explicitly and implicitly) at a crossroads. They can either choose to respect and represent companies or individuals, because the way our society is actually behaving, the rights expect by those two social units are mutually exclusive.

    • @delusionnnnn
      @delusionnnnn 10 років тому +6

      AutodidacticPhd I agree, and the only way it's going to stop is if we demand of our governments meaningful consumer protection laws and if we stop rewarding companies who violate our trust. We get angry when the NSA profiles us, but we happily profile ourselves for facebook.

  • @alexandriariley5209
    @alexandriariley5209 8 років тому +7

    Here's a summary of most websites' T&C/ToS (note that not all sites use this format. ):
    The site reserves the right to change any portion of the terms without notification. Any changes become binding upon continued use of the site.
    The site is not held responsible for anything that goes wrong.
    The site is not responsible for access to the site.
    The site is not be liable for anything.
    All copyrights, including usernames, belong to the site (the part about usernames isn't standard on all sites).
    Service is presented "as is"

  • @Zreen001
    @Zreen001 10 років тому +28

    I've read funny jokes in some T&Cs, like in the latest Tumblr T&C they modified their privacy policy and had a footnote that read "We will be able to track you through unmanned drones and video surveillance. ... just kidding."

  • @monkemode8128
    @monkemode8128 3 роки тому +11

    Imagine if you had to sign a 300 page document to go into the grocery store lol. Everyone would freak out and almost no one would just sign it without thinking twice.

  • @TheDiggster13
    @TheDiggster13 10 років тому +23

    How many times have I clicked agree without reading??? Any time I want to use a service and I'm generally OK with accepting the consequences of not reading.

    • @Kram1032
      @Kram1032 10 років тому +5

      The question, though, is whether you are generally ok because the TnC are too complex to bother or whether you are genuinely ok with what ever they are doing.

    • @rich1051414
      @rich1051414 10 років тому +11

      Kram1032 The thing is, when you need something to do a simple service, it is not worth it to read a 300 page book. It is much easier to blindly accept, and get what you need, which is definitely a dangerous thing. There really needs to be standards and laws regarding this so that major points in the end user license that effect the USER the most can be reduced down to bullet points, so people can make more informed decisions whether to accept or not.

    • @Kram1032
      @Kram1032 10 років тому +1

      Richard Smith indeed. Also it should be made more obvious what can actually be done against such ToS - from what I heard, much of it is so ridiculous that it wouldn't actually be accepted at court.
      And somebody somewhere at some point said that you can actually opt out of specific ToS points by writing the relevant people an E-Mail in which you declare as much, although that seemed a bit too easy to me.

  • @certee
    @certee 10 років тому +11

    "I'm an individual, I do exactly the same as everyone else"

  • @caleblimb3275
    @caleblimb3275 9 років тому +5

    I like the idea of moving towards using default licences and then adding on additional to the terms and conditions that might be needed in unique circumstances, similar the way most open source licences work like the GNU licence. I know this wouldn't be without it's problems but it could help with the comprehension issue for the average person. For example, they could look up those licences and see a description of what it does if they couldn't understand the legal language used (which is most of us).

  • @Untoldanimations
    @Untoldanimations 10 років тому +17

    When I once looked through the T's and C's I noticed that like most of it is about the exact same thing.

  • @JonathanTash
    @JonathanTash 8 років тому +13

    When ever I see a list of terms and conditions, I assume that it all summarizes to "If you use our software, then we have the right to control your life." I also view all data that is on or connected to the internet as completely public.

  • @Noogleminus
    @Noogleminus 10 років тому +15

    I really hope talk like this keeps up. These ToS are ridiculous.

  • @capefeather
    @capefeather 10 років тому +33

    What? You didn't read the terms and conditions? You couldn't understand them? That was your fault for not getting an English degree!
    What? You have an English degree and can't find a job? Well, that was your fault for making such a bad investment? What? You took my advice earlier? Why the hell would you do that? That was your own fault, mister!

  • @hyperhedgehog7
    @hyperhedgehog7 10 років тому +4

    I remember the first time I experienced a terms and conditions thing. I tried to read it. It still took so long I almost fell asleep reading it and when it was done I had no idea what I had just read. I clicked accept and decided to just do something else that does not have to do with what I just signed up for because I was so mad that I had to read that.

  • @edwardcosta2931
    @edwardcosta2931 10 років тому +4

    I freaking LOVE that Literatin plug-in! I inserted the text from a paper I wrote for a college assignment and it said it was only suitable for a graduate level audience. Awesome!
    Full disclosure: The paper passed, but only with an 85%. I'm going to have to talk with some of my course mentors haha.

  • @amigojapan
    @amigojapan 9 років тому +28

    I think an EULA should be restricted by law to be one page long....

    • @amigojapan
      @amigojapan 9 років тому +1

      well, why does a sheet of paper make something legally binding? what if someone clandestinely videotaped the agreement to pay back with 2% interest? why would it make a difference if you write ti down or you watch it on a video? what you agree to is what you agree to... if it is not legally binding, the law should change

    • @Sukuraidogai
      @Sukuraidogai 9 років тому +3

      amigojapan
      Well, start voting if you aren't already...

  • @genatrius5900
    @genatrius5900 10 років тому +5

    I don't know. I've read some of Beowulf, and it's not exactly that complicated. It's just a long poem. The word choice is a little odd sometimes, since it comes from language that's just different enough from ours to make things a little odd to translate. The only reason I haven't read it all the way through is because it's not a very rewarding story to read. There's this real, real strong guy who kills a monster, then the monster's mom, then he kills a dragon and dies. That's about it.
    That said, a lot of terms and conditions I've actually looked at feel like reading Beowulf in the original Old English. Complete with the þ's and ð's even!

  • @IshayuG
    @IshayuG 9 років тому +5

    Actually, it's very simple to explain what we're giving up when we sign something that anyone can tell we couldn't have read and understood: Nothing.
    If you go to a court case, T&C's are pretty much always completely void, and they can of course never overwrite a law. You can be bound by simple contracts, but not by something like iTunes' T&C.

  • @jmm1233
    @jmm1233 10 років тому +3

    i like how Creative Commons uses symbols that easily recognized as what is contained in the license

  • @andhemills
    @andhemills 9 років тому +5

    I pissed off my boss by suggesting we read each page of the T&C.

  • @HDxEXoThERMiA
    @HDxEXoThERMiA 8 років тому +18

    Please tell me I'm not the only one who reads the damn things.

  • @andrewkocurek195
    @andrewkocurek195 10 років тому +7

    He brings up a good point, there does need to be legislation to limit this stuff to like... 3 pages or something. I remember hearing that some banks or credit card companies are being made to downsize their contracts, or maybe it was phone companies. I forget but it's a great idea that needs to be passed.

  • @XizieGamer
    @XizieGamer 10 років тому +1

    This channel is absolutely fantastic! Thank you!

  • @BigChief014
    @BigChief014 10 років тому +4

    FASCINATING video! At first I was apprehensive that the professor was going to explain to me how badly we are all f*d by corporations because we don't read the T&C's. But it ended on an optimistic note, that legislation is evolving to keep big businesses more accountable for their dastardly legal strategies. And another +1 for the Scottish accent aye. :D

  • @blarblablarblar
    @blarblablarblar 9 років тому +14

    Honestly, I feel like the ridiculous length and language used in terms of service is a travesty. It reminds me of when I would try to dupe my mom into lending me her credit card so I could buy a game or something, because she frowns on me wasting money on something that isn't food or academically necessary (I WAS giving her cash for the money spent, I'm still too scared of trying to actually steal anything from my mom). Her English isn't great, so I'd use all these long words to try and confuse her. She'd just sort of scratch her head and not give me anything until I explain what the hell I want in 1-2 sentences, in Korean

  • @Folopolis
    @Folopolis 10 років тому +2

    Fun fact, it is in the terms and conditions for iOS v5 and later prohibiting its use for the development of nuclear missiles.

  • @OrionFyre
    @OrionFyre 10 років тому +7

    This reminds me of the southpark episode "dude!? You dont read the terms and conditions!?!"

  • @PaulKruskamp
    @PaulKruskamp 10 років тому +5

    Didn't have time for the video, watched about 2 seconds of it and scrolled down to read the comments.

  • @GLRaema
    @GLRaema 10 років тому +1

    I heard of two stories that relate to this topic:
    1. A man in russia wanted a credit card. He got the contract from his bank, filled everything out and changed some of the terms because he did not agree with them. His "version of the contract contained a 0pc interest rate, no fees and no credit limit. Every time the bank failed to comply with the rules, he would fine them 3m rubles (£58,716). If [the bank] tried to cancel the contract, it would have to pay him 6m rubles. [the bank] apparently failed to read the amendments, signed the contract and sent Mr Argakov a credit card."
    The bank itself did not read the contract after it was signed. They did not think it was necessary. (source: telegraph.co.uk)
    2. "Apparently in an attempt to prove that no one reads end user license agreements (EULAs), anti-spyware firm PC Pitstop buried a note in its own EULA, saying they would give $1,000 to the first person who emailed them at a certain address. It only took four months and over 3,000 downloads before someone noticed it and sent an email (and got the $1,000)." (source: techdirt.com)

  • @CaitlinJoRamsey
    @CaitlinJoRamsey 10 років тому +1

    I loved the practical examples referenced in this video--it's worth watching even for those who throw up their hands in the face of thorny ethics issues. As a 'data handler' myself, I slam into the practical upshots of of this DAILY: exciting new technical capabilities and applications for data minining, and LOTS of red tape. Putting the knowledge--and the choice--in the end-user's hands would benefit everyone who touches Big Data. (Ie. Practically everyone on the planet.)

  • @jonathanl.1963
    @jonathanl.1963 10 років тому

    I worry about what I'm agreeing to in those TOCs but I'm guilty of the laziness that you mentioned in the video. Thanks for the video, it's given me some things to think about. Hopefully more people take notice of this issue.

  • @Immallama22
    @Immallama22 10 років тому +9

    A map to the world's greatest treasure is secretly hidden in Apple's terms and conditions.

  • @marioornot
    @marioornot 10 років тому +5

    312 pages... how is that even legal..

  • @rlamacraft
    @rlamacraft 10 років тому +11

    Our governments are failing us by failing to update legislation to our new technological era… I expect there documents to be checked by the industry watchdogs and relevant government offices - however, I do believe that users have the responsibility to double check how trustworthy they deem the supplier of the service.

  • @Farmfield
    @Farmfield 10 років тому +10

    South Park season 15 premiere 'HUMANCENTiPAD" comes to mind. :D
    But seriously, the validity of an EULA outside the country it was written in is sketchy at best. The basic stuff like you don't own the code, not being allowed to distribute the software and such will be valid in most countries, but something like jailbreaking an Iphone or unlocking your Android phone bootloader will not be illegal in most countries, no matter what the EULA say's...

    • @jadghalayini1446
      @jadghalayini1446 10 років тому +3

      Also, when accepting terms and conditions, you can just use TOR or a proxy to accept, then, the only information they have of you is a fake IP and fake name, therefore, the EULA is unenforceable valid or not

    • @Farmfield
      @Farmfield 10 років тому +1

      I have a hard time seeing how you can use TOR to access a Windows-installation EULA, though... ;)

    • @jadghalayini1446
      @jadghalayini1446 10 років тому +2

      Microsoft and their ways.... this is why we have Linux lol

  • @sburgos9621
    @sburgos9621 10 років тому +2

    I think that people should come up with their own terms and conditions and carry it around to have people sign whenever they make a purchase. We should also tell companies that "this call may be recorded to ensure quality control".

  • @BigyetiTechnologies
    @BigyetiTechnologies 9 років тому +8

    The user agreement for Paypal runs to 27,000 words. The privacy policy runs to another 14,000 words. Then there are about another dozen other agreements.

  • @styk0n
    @styk0n 10 років тому +6

    I'm in law school, and I haven't read a single terms and conditions file in my life.

  • @frosted1030
    @frosted1030 10 років тому +6

    Truth: Whatever is stated in these "terms and conditions" is not applicable to those who can not comprehend them. Agreeing to them is NOT a legal or binding contract!

  • @ComputersAreRealCool
    @ComputersAreRealCool 9 років тому +1

    If we got given the T&C's on paper, we probably would read them, because they look more important. A small popup easily blends in with the "next - next next" spam clicking, and they make it so long it is impractical to read.

  • @realraven2000
    @realraven2000 10 років тому +17

    I like the idea behind SMOG, could you also port it to Firefox? I don't like to use the big brother browser (chrome).

    • @Computerphile
      @Computerphile  10 років тому +7

      There appears to be a link to a firefox plugin at the wordpress site bit.ly/literatin will take you there >Sean

    • @QuannanHade
      @QuannanHade 10 років тому

      Then how does one use the program? I am seeing no icon or context menus.

    • @realraven2000
      @realraven2000 10 років тому

      *****
      thanks for the link. It would be great if they could host it at amo (addons.mozilla.org) as well, as they have very strict security reviews (I am actually an Editor with them) and it would expose this to a wider audience.

    • @ctcxaza
      @ctcxaza 10 років тому +6

      From Wikipedia: "The Mozilla Foundation was founded by the Netscape-affiliated Mozilla Organization, and is funded almost exclusively by Google Inc."
      The whole point of Big Brother is that he's everywhere, get me?

    • @realraven2000
      @realraven2000 10 років тому +6

      ctcxaza
      That Wikipedia article is a little outdated - they don't own our arse. Like 1,000s other voluntary contributors I am not funded by Mozilla, nor am I paid by them as they are a non-profit organization; also they are tiny compared to google so they have a way smaller overhead. Also, unlike google+, Mozilla is not interested in locking you into their particular compartment of the internet, the mission statement was for diversity and in their opinion it people moving to different browsers (than just IE) was a good thing. For instance they were the ones that started the "browser choice" information, which now all major browsers have.
      One of Mozilla.org's missions statements is the user's full sovereign over his/her own data, we should be able to bring our data with us, move it from one service to another without problems. So it is working on standards to host and exchange social data away from the compartmentalization of the facebooks and youtubes - Openness and Interchangability is pretty much not what the commercial companies are interested in as it can indeed impact badly on their bottom line.
      Without them we simply wouldn't have the choices we have today, and they will continue on opening up the Internet for everbody; also a reason why they put a lot of their energy into Firefox OS which will be an alternative to (we own your data) Android; and its going to be completely open source so you can check what's happening in the platform. Also there will be more mobile device manufacturers licensing this so financially there is a definite shift away from google.
      Finally there will be 2 Billion more users coming online in the next 5 to 10 years, and they won't experience the internet from an expensive Computer, so there will be important work done to make it accessible to as many people on as cheap devices as possible. The internet is a communal resource, and Mozilla is one of the few organizations that tries to keep it open for all.

  • @dkmanticore
    @dkmanticore 10 років тому

    In Denmark we have an "e-mark" that a website or online store can get.
    If you se the e-mark it means that lawyers from the danish consumer counsel have read and approved the T&C's. It's an easy way to help the consumer make an informed decision.

  • @wrnchhead76
    @wrnchhead76 10 років тому +10

    I really like this guy. he's awesome.

  • @DanDart
    @DanDart 10 років тому +4

    I love software that you don't have to accept the licence to use.

  • @fnanfne
    @fnanfne 8 років тому

    Very cool and informative episode!

  • @EddyProca
    @EddyProca 10 років тому +9

    I first thought he said he has "little presents on the web" :P

  • @kevind814
    @kevind814 10 років тому +1

    I think one of the reasons they came up with a separate "privacy statement" is because it used to be buried in the T&C and no one was reading it. Then when someone actually read it and realized that people were giving up their privacy rights and it was actually something they didn't want to do, public outcry demanded that info be made plain and simple and separate from the T&C. I imagine when some other Term or Condition causes a similar backlash, it too will become a separate item you have to read.

  • @thunderpi
    @thunderpi 10 років тому +6

    Might be an idea to make it a legal necessity to provide a condense and understandable overview of all terms and conditions.

  • @obbeachbum69
    @obbeachbum69 10 років тому +3

    The problem with most T&C's is the majority of the text basically says "don't steal our stuff, don't copy our stuff, don't use our stuff in your business without our permission" That takes mountains of legalese.
    What would be helpful is separating the T&C's into what's pertinent to the average user and restrictions on those who have nefarious intents with this product.

  • @KadeKalka
    @KadeKalka 8 років тому +3

    I sort of read the Terms and Conditions. I skim through most of it and find the parts that are the most important to me. Though I think it is dumb that they try to make it so complex.

  • @Dampy.69
    @Dampy.69 10 років тому +11

    I just click accept because I know that wether the terms are bad or good I still will want to use whatever I am accepting to.

  • @NathanK97
    @NathanK97 8 років тому +22

    i hope the blinds bother other people as much as it is bothering me right now

  • @GhostInTheShell29
    @GhostInTheShell29 9 років тому +2

    My general rule of thumb, is If I want to use a service to make money, you have to read the terms and conditions in their entirety. Since generally this will tell you whether or not your allowed to do what you hope to do.
    If you want to be assured of your privacy you have to read the terms and conditions in their entirety.
    If you aren't going to use it to make money, and you already know they don't protect your privacy then I spend about 1 second clicking the accept button as well.

  • @JELLYBEAN1595
    @JELLYBEAN1595 8 років тому +1

    Fantastic limmy's show sketch about this: User agreement

  • @AlphaSquadZero
    @AlphaSquadZero 9 років тому +4

    The rub is that even if there is something in the T&C you don't agree with are you going to simply not use the product that you clearly want to use?

  • @3ventic
    @3ventic 10 років тому +1

    I generally read them through after I've used the service for a while, not when registering.

  • @jorl17
    @jorl17 10 років тому

    I think a video contrasting the open-source software & development model and the proprietary one, and maybe another one on code / art licensing would be enlightening to many people!

  • @8ytan
    @8ytan 10 років тому +2

    i was killing time with this video while i waited for software to install and have just blindly accepted the terms and conditions

  • @16awala
    @16awala 10 років тому +1

    I actually read T's & C's occasionally. If it's only about 15 pages I'll skim through and usually I can get the jist of it. I have actually declined a few times because of how some things handle personal info, which always just so happens to be at least half way through the document. We really need little bullet point summaries of T's & C's, because people have neither the time nor attention span to read a 300 page document written in such a way that it might as well be in a different language. Law language really just needs updated and simplified so average people can read and understand what's going on.

  • @fakjbf3129
    @fakjbf3129 9 років тому +4

    If countries got together and started making it law that companies have to put some kind of layman's terms summary of important information, then I think the buyer-beware model wouldn't be too bad. You have the opportunity to read it, if you don't it's your fault. If the company intentionally misleads people with what's stated on the summary, then they should face rather severe consequences and possibly open themselves to civil lawsuits depending on the severity. It's only a problem to put the onus on the consumer when it would take them several hours of reading and a law degree to even have a chance to understand the information given.

  • @UpHigherMusicOfficial
    @UpHigherMusicOfficial 10 років тому +1

    I imagine they would change it - giving a summary of the main points in the novel that is T&Cs

  • @wesmatron
    @wesmatron 10 років тому +2

    I remember when EA updated Origin during Battlefield 3's life and changed their T&Cs to include them being able to go through all of you hard drive and take a copy of anything they like.
    It was exposed on the forums and they had to change it.
    Don't agree to anything when you don't know what you are agreeing to. To do otherwise is madness..

  • @piecake9173
    @piecake9173 10 років тому

    It's so long its often not proofread, one T's and C's said "by pressing I agree you..." in the beginning and at the bottom there was a button that said "I accept"

  • @Lutranereis
    @Lutranereis 10 років тому

    I understand that blindly agreeing the terms and conditions means that a company, or several companies, will probably have access to personal information about me, which is why I tend to do the same as Professor Rodden. I keep my internet footprint as small as possible.

  • @Wourghk
    @Wourghk 10 років тому

    In the U.S., it's very easy to void a lengthy ToS/TnC "digitally signed contract" if you claim in court that you didn't fully understand the terms. If you get burned by a "no returns on software products" clause in a huge online software purchase, feel free to contest it.

  • @supperaadet
    @supperaadet 10 років тому

    Terms of Service; Didn’t Read is an extension for Google Chrome that rates sites in how they handle privacy and data storage. UA-cam get a class D: "The terms of service are very uneven or there are some important issues that need your attention."
    It also lists what give you a synopsis of what the site is allowed to do with your data.

  • @michaelbell9026
    @michaelbell9026 9 років тому +1

    responsible innovation sounds beautiful!

  • @Arcsecant
    @Arcsecant 4 роки тому +3

    I always let an AI script click randomly on the screen. When it hits ok, it's legally liable, not me.

  • @LeoWattenberg
    @LeoWattenberg 10 років тому +1

    In some jurisdictions...
    ...you can blindly accept any TOU if they were not part of the buying contract. This means, if you buy a computer with windows on it in Germany, you don't have to read the TOU unless they were explicitly mentioned when you bought it.
    ... the TOU cannot grant anything beyond the law, such as the "[...] IN NO EVENT SHALL THE AUTHORS OR COPYRIGHT HOLDERS BE LIABLE FOR ANY CLAIM [...]"-disclaimer. If the authors or copyright holders use their software to do unlawful stuff, they are liable for what they're doing. If others use their software to do illegal stuff, the authors can also be liable for that.
    ... companies may not trick users into something like this:
    _Advertisement: "get USD 50000 with this credit card, only USD 3 per month" | TOU: "the monthly fee can be raised any time"_
    ########
    Oh, law is fun.

  • @zlac
    @zlac 10 років тому +4

    Reading T&Q?
    Ain't nobody got time fo' that!

  • @PhilDaw
    @PhilDaw 7 років тому +2

    I enjoyed the part of when people were unintentionally upgraded to Windows 10, if they just denied the EULA it would automatically roll them back to the previous OS, but no-one ever did

  • @NoahLoveladyAllen
    @NoahLoveladyAllen 10 років тому

    I actually read the Google ToS and it's really easy to understand. Haven't read Beowulf though. Maybe I will.

  • @RMoribayashi
    @RMoribayashi 10 років тому

    The early Terms for KaZaa included a clause that allowed them to _store and retrieve unlimited amounts of encrypted data to and from your computer_. This gave them free high priority access to the hard drives of the _millions of computers_ running KaZaa. This _"storage resource"_ could then be *sold to third parties*. Someone actually read and published the relevant lines in the Terms and Conditions, eventually leading to an outcry of *foul*. They stopped that scheme, adding more 3rd party malware to compensate for the loss.

  • @0011peace
    @0011peace 10 років тому +6

    There should a rule that T&C should be no more than 1 full page at normal size font. Only reason for 302 pages i to get you to give up your first born or sell your soul.

  • @kujmous
    @kujmous 10 років тому

    Brilliant topic. I understand the need to be absolutely clear, but if it can't be made clear in 5 pages or less, there's a problem

  • @zoaslayer1
    @zoaslayer1 10 років тому +2

    I'll tell you guys what the Terms and Conditions say, lets say in an app like UA-cam on your SMARTphone:
    In order for you to use our app you have to allow us access to all of your text messages, all of your call records, contacts, voicemail, you have to allow UA-cam the "permission" to record video and take photos at any time. You also have to let UA-cam know where you are at all times.
    The End!

  • @SkilledTheory
    @SkilledTheory 8 років тому +10

    Time to go watch that South Park episode now.

  • @SheezyBites
    @SheezyBites 10 років тому

    Is there somewhere we can try the check the complexity of our own stuff using those tools you spoke about.

  • @johnsixfiveohtwo1354
    @johnsixfiveohtwo1354 10 років тому +3

    I wanted to download a newspaper app that allowed me to upload my own pictures. The Ts & Cs stated that the copyright would transfer to the newspaper in perpetuity and irrevocably. I ticked "I do not accept". Other times, I haven't bothered reading them before accepting.

  • @kohgeek
    @kohgeek 10 років тому

    There's one department in one company that successfully simplify the T&C: Google's Android App Store, whenever you download an app it shows all the permissions it has.
    Although you might say that it's only displaying permissions, but think about it again, what does T&C tell you? Permissions. LOL. So any company should really learn from the Google Play Store.
    But many softwares have T&C that actually isn't widely accepted such as personal info collection and Adware, Malware etc. Remember Angry Bird? Reports say that their ads collect info so private that it is considered privacy breach!
    Terms & Condition should only contain:
    1. Permission
    2. Usage
    3. Distribution
    4. Other included software.
    Why not? This is what we want to know, and all those "The material is copyrighted." is a bunch of rubbish because in the modern digital world, anything can be copied, decompiled, redistributed. It's impossible for you to start a lawsuit, could you? The only thing is to implement the crack-resisting code inside your software instead of long paragraph of text just to tell you. "You shouldn't pirate it"
    Don't get it, why are they so freakin' long? Doesn't make sense, I'm sure even the developers themselves doesn't read it do they?

  • @OmegaRainbow
    @OmegaRainbow 10 років тому

    very very interesting!

  • @ericvilas
    @ericvilas 10 років тому

    One word: Tumblr. Seriously, that's probably the simplest T&C I've ever seen, and it's funny too.

  • @Trollygag
    @Trollygag 10 років тому

    It really doesn't matter. Until 'Terms and Conditions' become optional, or there is fast/easy terms negotiations on every account signup (which most computer users have dozens to hundreds to do basic commerce), we're hosed regardless who or how many times people are warned to read them or consider them.

  • @jacopomazzoni
    @jacopomazzoni 10 років тому

    Hey guys I love this cannel I watched many videos and I hope to contribute even minimally by just saying this:
    Leave some damn headroom!
    Intense zoomed in shots on the face of whoever is talking are really nauseating in a ten minutes video.
    Moviemakers get away with it because they keep it for a few seconds only...
    Please steadier shots with headroom and less cuts, so we can focus on what they are saying, wich is amazing, not on the camera work ( wich is really not ).
    That being said I love the channel keep up the good stories!

  • @JuanPabloCarbajal
    @JuanPabloCarbajal 10 років тому

    He looks like the brother of our friendly astronomer/physicist from your other channel!