I am a drafter in Transportation Civil. When laying out my garden rail I like to use a long piece of PVC. 20’. It represents a French curve that we used to use on the board 25+ years ago. You can get nice smooth curves that represents spirals and gradual curves. If using benchwork you can trace it with a sharpie. When laying out on Earth I have used Rebar stakes to hold the PVC while I bend the multiple curves. A heat gun can take out the stress in the PVC and make the curve permanent. I will then imbed the PVC in the roadbed and use it to set the grade as well as the curve. Compound curves are set this way as well. I have also used PVC T glued to connect the PVC and the Vertical Leg glued to a 1’ piece of PVC driven into the ground. This anchors the curve and you can set the vertical curve this way as well. It worked really well on my last railroad and I plan on using that process here in the future when I build my next. You can screw track work to the PVC to hold specific pieces in place say at a switch.
@@sinkinpat WOW!!!!! What a great idea! Back when I was building a ground level, I did try burying PVC and bending it that way, but not for that purpose I was simply looking for a waterproof way to enclose my wires. And I could then pull the wires through the PVC using a cable puller so I could even take wires out if some squirrel got a hold of them or something! But I never thought about using the PVC to establish the curves. Yet loan anchor in the track to it! I did try once staking the track to the ground, total disaster, I drove wooden stakes into the ground around the curves and so on to establish the curve and then ran a screw down through the ties into the stakes. Worked absolutely great. For about six months. But with temperature shifts and ground heave and frost teeth and the things that happen it absolutely tore my truck to bits. A year later, I was taking the whole thing up and redoing it. Anyway, I love this idea and I’ve got an idea to mess around with it And see what I can do.
I have a tip. In the beginning you had a diagram with a line that pointed to the Apex of the curve. When I lay flex track I do my best to make sure that a piece of flex track evenly straddles the Apex. That way there are no joiners in the Apex, thus no stress on the rails trying to create a kink at the joiners. Usually the transitions leading away from the Apex are of less radius and so less stress on the rail joiners. Unless you are building a helix. That is why some modelers build an oval helix. Flex track fills the ends of the oval and joiners are in the straight section. Thus, you can avoid kinks being forced by the rails trying to go straight at the Apex. I know in some large radius curves it is not possible to use just one piece of flex track. It might require two or more pieces. If you solder the flex track into longer straight sections, remove the ties around the joiners so the joiners can slide, then you will end up with offset joiners. Offset joiners in a large radius curves will help to reduce the stress of the rails attempting to straighten causing a kink. Having your joiners parallel in a curve puts double stress in the same spot and you may never be able to eliminate a kink in that spot. You might be able to reduce the severity of the kink, but it will always be there. So, layout your flex track through the Apex of the curves first, then fill in between with more track.
Yes in my N scale layout I have a curve that is a problem and you just explained why, thank you. Now I can fix it. Always learning from you and Karyn see you Sunday. HAPPY NEW YEAR 🎉 GOD BLESS 🚂💕🚂💕🚂💕🚂💕
curves a easier approach for some.I use a section of sectional track that is set for 18 inches, do to my tight mountain layout. Place the track beside the area selected for the curve, Take a rail gauge or make a jig that sits on the rails, then at 2 1/4 inches from the center of the rail mark the center point on the other end of the jig. mark the rail locations. At this point cut a grove into the jig for the rails to sit in and you have a perfect rail jig. Place the jig or gauge on the sectional track and make allowance for roadbed and take the flex track, anchor the straight section down, then bend it so it follows the curve. Using the jig to accurately space the rails apart secure the track through the curve and out to the straight away. No kinks, and no rubbing of cars.
I find myself a little confused here. Trying to figure this out. It sounds like a grand idea. I just can’t quite get my head into it. But it sounds like this would be a great way of doing this.
That was really good advice and information on track laying. Helped clear up some issues I've been facing doing track planning. Look forward to your next upload on this subject. All the best and Happy New Year to you both. Brian @ The Angels
I like that idea! It's so simple, why didn't I think of that?! I’m sort of fabricating that same thing with my one by two. My radius are quite large, a minimum of 52 inches, so using an 8 foot one by two is about the only way I can make that work. But in the smaller scales, that would be absolutely perfect!
Suggested curve issue. Multiple tracks for a siding or curved yard design. A ROYAL pain for modelers due to the outside track being 24inches next track 21 3/4, next comes 19 1/2 and so forth.
Good thinking. I have laid these out using my same trick with the one by two. Easy to do multiple radius that way for flex track. I know the commercially available tracks are supposed to do this but they’re really only available in 22 and 18 inches.
Hello, i believe you own a Bachman K-27 . I Have developed a replacement pilot truck as some have reported breakage on theirs. If you go to the bachman large scale forum the details are there
Home Depot and other stores sell those rolls of wide heavy paper for construction protection. Lay pieces of that on the floor and draw your layout curves on that then lay the paper on your plywood and transfer points on the curve.
We’ve tried that before - but it’s a lot easier to just use a compass to make the curves. One way or the other you’ve got to make the curves full size either on the sheet of paper or directly on the plywood or OSB. But I have had really good luck doing exactly what you’re talking about on my old HO railroad where I couldn’t necessarily get in where I wanted to lay the curves out on the plywood.😊😊😊😊
The more I’m thinking about this the more I’m liking it. I’m thinking back to my old HO railroad when I use this technique because there was no way to really figure the radius and so out on the actual railroad because of all of the cut outs. Also using the technique called cookie cutter. Using the butcher paper allows you to work flat on the floor without worrying about all of the various shapes of your railroad. I had forgotten how nice that worked.
A lot of these guys have great ideas on how they layout curves, but try doing that around already existing plants that you want to be in the scene! How do you get around those plants to make an easy curve?! I'm having to build my layout in a raised benchwork of 4 to 5 feet off the very uneven ground!!!
It’s always challenging working outside. But somebody posted an idea that I really want to try using a piece of PVC. Would really only apply to Garden railroad, but that sort of the point we have such a challenge we’re working in the garden don’t we? 😊😊
To simplify the gauge tool. Amazon no longer offers it. It went under Bachmann by Proses HO Scale Adjustable Parallel Track Tool. Purchase enough sectional track for the radius desired, for the inside curve. Place the gauge on the sectional track, using the out side gauge set to the standards of 2 1/4 inch, place the flex track down, anchoring it at the straight away going into the curve and as the track follows the curve glue or rail it down until the curve is complete and goes straight again. Now you have a curve that will allow trains to go through the curve, not de rail and no kinks.
I love doing easements and the technique I was talking about of simply lead the rail for the easement as always works for me. But I know it’s kind of a hack. Actual easements would be somewhat difficult to figure out, but I understand there is a way of doing it. I’m looking into that.
Don't forget spiral in and spiral out. ( Surfacing Gang Forman lingo ) To make it more real looking, graduate the curve in and out. Curves dont go from 0 to 2° instantly. They go from 0°to 1/2°,1°,1 1|2°,then 2°. And use the 100' scale feet between opposing curves rule. This will help with long car binding. Obviously, this won't work with pre made track. Only flex track.
@@samfuller6273 yep! Best way to lay out a curve is with easements ease in and ease out. Flex track will naturally tend to do that. You just sort of have to let it. There’s a mathematical formula for creating something called a French curve, but the reason a French curve looks so natural is because that’s what things tend to do in the real world, just as flex track tends to do that if you just sort of let it.
Because spirals or easement curves are 2nd order formulas, the AREA, or AREMA now, has a 10-station spiral already worked out that can be inserted between the tangent and the curve to set the offsets for staking. Reverse curves are a nightmare for full-sized equipment and are worse for the smaller radii curves. Horizontal curves are based on constant radius through them and vertical curves are based on a parabola. A vertical curve can easily be laid out with a tape and level.
I'm a former G scaler now HO man. Thank goodness, G scale is much more "forgiving" than HO regarding laying curves. I still have G scale and am looking forward to my next layout. Your outdoor line is beautifully done. Model Railroading is truly an art. Sincerely, Mike in AZ. ua-cam.com/video/H8t579zzR04/v-deo.html
I am a drafter in Transportation Civil. When laying out my garden rail I like to use a long piece of PVC. 20’. It represents a French curve that we used to use on the board 25+ years ago. You can get nice smooth curves that represents spirals and gradual curves. If using benchwork you can trace it with a sharpie. When laying out on Earth I have used Rebar stakes to hold the PVC while I bend the multiple curves. A heat gun can take out the stress in the PVC and make the curve permanent. I will then imbed the PVC in the roadbed and use it to set the grade as well as the curve. Compound curves are set this way as well. I have also used PVC T glued to connect the PVC and the Vertical Leg glued to a 1’ piece of PVC driven into the ground. This anchors the curve and you can set the vertical curve this way as well. It worked really well on my last railroad and I plan on using that process here in the future when I build my next. You can screw track work to the PVC to hold specific pieces in place say at a switch.
@@sinkinpat WOW!!!!! What a great idea! Back when I was building a ground level, I did try burying PVC and bending it that way, but not for that purpose I was simply looking for a waterproof way to enclose my wires. And I could then pull the wires through the PVC using a cable puller so I could even take wires out if some squirrel got a hold of them or something! But I never thought about using the PVC to establish the curves. Yet loan anchor in the track to it! I did try once staking the track to the ground, total disaster, I drove wooden stakes into the ground around the curves and so on to establish the curve and then ran a screw down through the ties into the stakes. Worked absolutely great. For about six months. But with temperature shifts and ground heave and frost teeth and the things that happen it absolutely tore my truck to bits. A year later, I was taking the whole thing up and redoing it. Anyway, I love this idea and I’ve got an idea to mess around with it And see what I can do.
I have a tip. In the beginning you had a diagram with a line that pointed to the Apex of the curve. When I lay flex track I do my best to make sure that a piece of flex track evenly straddles the Apex. That way there are no joiners in the Apex, thus no stress on the rails trying to create a kink at the joiners. Usually the transitions leading away from the Apex are of less radius and so less stress on the rail joiners. Unless you are building a helix. That is why some modelers build an oval helix. Flex track fills the ends of the oval and joiners are in the straight section. Thus, you can avoid kinks being forced by the rails trying to go straight at the Apex. I know in some large radius curves it is not possible to use just one piece of flex track. It might require two or more pieces. If you solder the flex track into longer straight sections, remove the ties around the joiners so the joiners can slide, then you will end up with offset joiners. Offset joiners in a large radius curves will help to reduce the stress of the rails attempting to straighten causing a kink. Having your joiners parallel in a curve puts double stress in the same spot and you may never be able to eliminate a kink in that spot. You might be able to reduce the severity of the kink, but it will always be there. So, layout your flex track through the Apex of the curves first, then fill in between with more track.
Great points Dale
@@bernardc2553 thanks!!!
Another great tutorial! Happy New Year!!!
@@growclipbonsaiforseniors1951 hi again as always! A prosperous 2025 to you!!
Dang Dale. I wish i watched the whole video before commenting!!! You covered what i posted earlier!
Yes in my N scale layout I have a curve that is a problem and you just explained why, thank you. Now I can fix it. Always learning from you and Karyn see you Sunday.
HAPPY NEW YEAR 🎉
GOD BLESS 🚂💕🚂💕🚂💕🚂💕
@@loispadgett6306 hi again!!! The reverse curves are a real problem! The non even radius curve is often a critical problem. Blessings back!
Fantastic
@@stevemellin5806 thanks Steve!
curves a easier approach for some.I use a section of sectional track that is set for 18 inches, do to my tight mountain layout. Place the track beside the area selected for the curve, Take a rail gauge or make a jig that sits on the rails, then at 2 1/4 inches from the center of the rail mark the center point on the other end of the jig. mark the rail locations. At this point cut a grove into the jig for the rails to sit in and you have a perfect rail jig. Place the jig or gauge on the sectional track and make allowance for roadbed and take the flex track, anchor the straight section down, then bend it so it follows the curve. Using the jig to accurately space the rails apart secure the track through the curve and out to the straight away. No kinks, and no rubbing of cars.
I find myself a little confused here. Trying to figure this out. It sounds like a grand idea. I just can’t quite get my head into it. But it sounds like this would be a great way of doing this.
That was really good advice and information on track laying. Helped clear up some issues I've been facing doing track planning. Look forward to your next upload on this subject. All the best and Happy New Year to you both. Brian @ The Angels
😇😇😇😇😇
Glad it was helpful!
Thanks for the video 😃
Hi again, as always!! 🚂🚂🚂🚂🚀🚀🚀🎉🥳🎊
Great vidio, it's a bit like hitting the switch to fast and throwing a car. Thanks for the morning coffee...
I know exactly what you mean about the switch! 😁☕️☕️☕️
A yard stick with a hole drilled at the end and on the number for the desired radius works great for me
I like that idea! It's so simple, why didn't I think of that?!
I’m sort of fabricating that same thing with my one by two. My radius are quite large, a minimum of 52 inches, so using an 8 foot one by two is about the only way I can make that work. But in the smaller scales, that would be absolutely perfect!
I use a T squad, compass , scale and a pencil
Suggested curve issue. Multiple tracks for a siding or curved yard design. A ROYAL pain for modelers due to the outside track being 24inches next track 21 3/4, next comes 19 1/2 and so forth.
Good thinking. I have laid these out using my same trick with the one by two. Easy to do multiple radius that way for flex track. I know the commercially available tracks are supposed to do this but they’re really only available in 22 and 18 inches.
Hello, i believe you own a Bachman K-27 . I Have developed a replacement pilot truck as some have reported breakage on theirs. If you go to the bachman large scale forum the details are there
Thanks for the tip! I’ll see if I can find that. Thank goodness mine has not broken!
Home Depot and other stores sell those rolls of wide heavy paper for construction protection. Lay pieces of that on the floor and draw your layout curves on that then lay the paper on your plywood and transfer points on the curve.
We’ve tried that before - but it’s a lot easier to just use a compass to make the curves. One way or the other you’ve got to make the curves full size either on the sheet of paper or directly on the plywood or OSB. But I have had really good luck doing exactly what you’re talking about on my old HO railroad where I couldn’t necessarily get in where I wanted to lay the curves out on the plywood.😊😊😊😊
The more I’m thinking about this the more I’m liking it. I’m thinking back to my old HO railroad when I use this technique because there was no way to really figure the radius and so out on the actual railroad because of all of the cut outs. Also using the technique called cookie cutter. Using the butcher paper allows you to work flat on the floor without worrying about all of the various shapes of your railroad. I had forgotten how nice that worked.
@@ToyManTelevision I was thinking more for the situation in your backyard where you didn't have any material where the pivot needed to be.
A lot of these guys have great ideas on how they layout curves, but try doing that around already existing plants that you want to be in the scene! How do you get around those plants to make an easy curve?! I'm having to build my layout in a raised benchwork of 4 to 5 feet off the very uneven ground!!!
It’s always challenging working outside. But somebody posted an idea that I really want to try using a piece of PVC. Would really only apply to Garden railroad, but that sort of the point we have such a challenge we’re working in the garden don’t we? 😊😊
To simplify the gauge tool. Amazon no longer offers it. It went under Bachmann by Proses HO Scale Adjustable Parallel Track Tool. Purchase enough sectional track for the radius desired, for the inside curve. Place the gauge on the sectional track, using the out side gauge set to the standards of 2 1/4 inch, place the flex track down, anchoring it at the straight away going into the curve and as the track follows the curve glue or rail it down until the curve is complete and goes straight again. Now you have a curve that will allow trains to go through the curve, not de rail and no kinks.
That is a great idea for simplifying the process and making it a little easier!❤❤❤❤ now to build one.
PS I hand lay my rack with easements .
I love doing easements and the technique I was talking about of simply lead the rail for the easement as always works for me. But I know it’s kind of a hack. Actual easements would be somewhat difficult to figure out, but I understand there is a way of doing it. I’m looking into that.
Don't forget spiral in and spiral out. ( Surfacing Gang Forman lingo ) To make it more real looking, graduate the curve in and out. Curves dont go from 0 to 2° instantly. They go from 0°to 1/2°,1°,1 1|2°,then 2°. And use the 100' scale feet between opposing curves rule. This will help with long car binding. Obviously, this won't work with pre made track. Only flex track.
@@samfuller6273 yep! Best way to lay out a curve is with easements ease in and ease out. Flex track will naturally tend to do that. You just sort of have to let it. There’s a mathematical formula for creating something called a French curve, but the reason a French curve looks so natural is because that’s what things tend to do in the real world, just as flex track tends to do that if you just sort of let it.
Because spirals or easement curves are 2nd order formulas, the AREA, or AREMA now, has a 10-station spiral already worked out that can be inserted between the tangent and the curve to set the offsets for staking. Reverse curves are a nightmare for full-sized equipment and are worse for the smaller radii curves. Horizontal curves are based on constant radius through them and vertical curves are based on a parabola. A vertical curve can easily be laid out with a tape and level.
@@royreynolds108 hi. Thanks! How are you doing vertical curves with a level and tape?
I'm a former G scaler now HO man. Thank goodness, G scale is much more "forgiving" than HO regarding laying curves.
I still have G scale and am looking forward to my next layout. Your outdoor line is beautifully done.
Model Railroading is truly an art.
Sincerely, Mike in AZ. ua-cam.com/video/H8t579zzR04/v-deo.html
That is an amazing room! I too have always been a rubber gauger. I’ve been in anything from N to F.