UPDATE: I had to re-upload to fix an audio issue. This is a long video to cover everyone's questions so here are some jump links: 0:45 - How speaker level sub inputs work 7:09 - Inside your Sonos and why a line is tricky 9:06 - Stereo subwoofer wiring 14:40 - Home theater setup 19:42 - Setting up a sub as a separate 'room' 21:09 - Adding switches 23:48 - Bi-amping passive speakers Recommended subwoofers on Amazon ~$100: Polk 10" - amzn.to/2RcWV1q Monoprice 8" - amzn.to/3696umd Monoprice premium 8" - amzn.to/2Rdl73O Acoustic Audio 8" - amzn.to/2TVfCZt Note: any subwoofer brand or size will work as long as it's amplified and has speaker level inputs - if it only has RCA inputs, look elsewhere.
Can you add it inside Sonos app as a sub or will Sonos app not recognize it as such and instead will still see it as a Symfonisk speaker? If so, then buy 1 Symfonisk speaker, disable tweeter/sub inside rear speaker and jump it to the 3rd party sub. Thoughts? Thanks!
Ray J Sonos will always see this as a Symfonisk but you can disable the internal drivers and that use it to get a signal to a sub. I cover that in the video as the separate zone/room approach
@@todd.parker Thanks, must have missed it. Was hoping I could add it as a sub only but obviously Sonos has it setup to detect the board/electronics as Symfonisk's speaker. Now.. Only if we could flash the board :) Thanks again and appreciate the quick feedback.
I got a symfonisk today and followed your guide. I changed from a polk 5.1 system to a sonos playbase and 2 play 1s. I used the symfonisk as a gateway to a polk psw450. Everything is working great. Thanks for sharing your knowledge 🙏🏾✌🏾
One important additional function the speaker-to-RCA converters also perform is ground isolation. The RCA jacks on the subwoofer share a common ground (outer terminal ring), while the speaker connections from the amplifier have isolated grounds. The converter uses 1:1 audio transformers on each channel to "lift" the grounds, thus preventing the grounds from being electrically connected when the converter wires into the sub's input jacks.
this is just brilliant! thank you SO MUCH! I have a Beam and two Play:1's for my surround sound. it's needed a sub so badly, but there's no way I am spending $800 to achieve it. Everything I read online had said it wasn't possible to use a 3rd party sub. But with your guide & a $60 sub from FB marketplace I got it wired up and working, sounds fantastic!! Thanks again!
Thanks Todd. Super easy project with great benefits. I used an old Polk Audio sub that was collecting dust and picked up the Symfonisk speaker at Ikea. Now my Sonos ecosystem has the bottom end it was missing. Great video.
Thanks for all you’ve done. A few things I found doing it last night… The front panel buttons must be active to connect the Symfonisk as it asks you press a button to confirm. And I couldn’t add a third Symfonisk to the “Living Room” (Beam+2xSymfonisk). Nor could I change the name. So I added it to another room and made the room name “Subwoofer”. Then made sure to add it when using the Living Room. Maybe it’s the new version of the app?
Not sure if you're the reason why the Symfonisk is always out of stock at my local Ikea's. This hacks will certainly will give new life to my pair of Celestion 3s. Now, if I can find those in my store room! Thanks for the great video!
Hey Todd First of all thank you for this great tutorial. I tried it with some messy and temporary cabling and everything worked perfectly. Now I installed a switch for the tweeter and some sockets for the in and out for and to the sub it looks good and sounds even better. In addition as a little hint i used male AND female connectors so i did not have to cut any original cables. Oliver
Line level can be taken Post PCM chip. The Crossover is visible on the PCB. You can combine the signal or HIGH/LOW from the negative terminals of each Capacitor in the Crossover network. The Signal GND can be taken from any ground on the PCB. This signal (POST AMP) removes any Impedance / Frequency issues caused by using the signal Texas instruments AMP and then stepping back down to line level. It is well documented however Todd has probably already published this so to save embarrassment, all I can suggest is, I hope you're handy with a soldering iron. Oh and lastly, if you do want to Run directly from the AMP and wish to use your speakers Inbuild Crossover, you can do this by converting the Sonos AMP chip into Bridged mode (very Fiddley). I am currently running in this config to a pair of Q acoustics 3020i's. The Symfonisk's/3020i's (Post Trueplay) do an admirable job as surrounds.
Thanks for all the details. This video is pretty old but as you said if you’re handy with a soldering iron you can probably get in and get a signal. I was trying to do some thing that was a bit easier but it didn’t work
I was thinking the same with beam. I guess conceptually it should work the same, as long as it has separated woofer amp. I was wondering if the new Arc ultra has even a dedicated sub amp which would be even easier to jump from and disable its own sub channel.
It would totally work but a product like the Arc is packed with components so opening it up and getting a neat cable out is probably really tricky. I wish they offered a $100 sub out box but that's bad for sub sales. You can tap into the rear channels or use the gateway approach, neither is perfect but works surprisingly well
Just wanted to say a big thank, Todd! I am not your DIY guru by any means but I found your videos very useful with clear instructions. I tried the frequecy cross over method hack and I was blown away. The surround effect is just amazing. I am thinking about bi-amping my setup but not sure how to do that. Do I need to drill for another pair of binding posts for access to the tweeter inputs? Can you please share a wiring diagram?
Hi, glad that worked. To buy-amp, yes you need another set of binding posts. The wiring couldn’t be simpler - you unplug the symfonisk tweeter and wire the tweeter amp directly to your other speakers tweeter (no crossover). Repeat for the woofer and you’re done!
This is definitely a cool hack. . Is there anyway to fool the Sonos app into thinking you got a Sonos sub so you can do a 5.1 set up with standard subwoofer?
Hi Todd, thank you for your amazing video, I am going to do this as well. Therefore I bought secondhanded B&W DM305 speakers. However, from your considerations I am not fully sure if these speakers are ok. You mentioned 3 considerations: 1. Sensitivity: the woofer and tweeter should be close to each other in terms of db 2. Impediance: the subwoofer should be around 8 ohms and the tweeter 4 ohms and definately not lower than 4 ohms 3. Frequency crossover: it should cover the 3000hz crossover (later you found it was 1600hz) I looked up documents of the speakers I bought but I am still not sure if they are ok. Below you find some information that i have found and my related questions are below the specs. System type: 2-way Enclosure type: Bass-reflex Frequency response: ± 3dB 55 - 20000 Hz Nominal impedance: 8 Ohm Amplifier Requirements: 25 - 120 W Sensitivity (2.83V/1m) : 91 dB Tweeter 25 mm: (1 in.) Woofer 165 mm: (6.5 in.) Questions: - I can only find one spec about resistance (8ohm), is this ok then because it is in the range? - can i assume that the crossover frequency and range are ok because they are already in one speaker together (woofer and tweeter) and the range is between your reccommendation? - Can the symfonisk handle the power that is required for my speakers? It seems so (T)odd that this small symfonisk speaker can handle such a big B&W DM305 speaker. Last question: is there anything else I should consider or take into account? Many thanks from Holland. I have watched your videos multiple times and get really exited by it! I am dreaming of building and DIY it all the time! Thanks!!
Hi! Based on these specs, I think these should be a good fit for bi-amping. The 8 ohm impedance for the overall speakers means the woofer is likely 8 ohms and trueplay can smooth out any differences in efficiency. I think you’re good!
Hello. Since this video is over a year old, I wanted to check before I attempt my own setup. I have a playbar and two One SLs. I just want to hook up a powered sub but cannot afford the Sonos sub. Could I get away with one Symfonics speaker? Or would I need to get two and run the powered sub off of one of them? Thanks I’m advance for all of your time and efforts.
If you’re up to opening the One SL, you can get a signal off the woofer for the sun. Alternatively you can get a single symfonisk, unhook all the drivers and just use it as a way to connect the sub as a separate room you group with the soundbar room. I cover all these scenarios in detail
@@todd.parker Thanks. I’ll look at opening up the Sonos One SL first. I didn’t realize I could do that. I saw your demo on the second room option. If I remember correctly, there were some issues with delays. Do you have a video of opening up the SL? Thanks again
Grouping rooms has a bit more delay than the speakers in a home theater room but it’s pretty minimal. There are a few teardowns like this one: ua-cam.com/video/OXce4QEgOgA/v-deo.html The tricky thing is finding a good spot for the binding posts with the wraparound grill
@@Tpeazy1980 Someone did something similar here ua-cam.com/video/w76p6VchxgA/v-deo.html I also have a Playbar and considering connecting an external powered sub directly to it...wish me luck.
I did this with a Sonos Beam and 2 Sonos Symfonisk system. I hooked up an old Sony subwoofer (fairly large) to the left Symfonisk. The sound system now shakes the entire house. If you are looking to add bass to your system cheaply, this is the perfect solution. As a complete novice to wiring speakers (I followed the steps provided in the video because I was afraid of breaking something), I can say this can be easily completed. The only thing that I can say is a problem is that I feel like the voice of videos is overcome by the bass outputted. Not sure how to fix this or if there’s a fix. I’ve messed with the EQ settings of the group on the Sonos application to temporarily fix each situation. Thank you for the hack! Also, is leaving the inside of the Sonos Symfonisk dangerous/harmful to the speaker? I really wouldn’t like to drill a hole in the casing and have run the wire through the opening within the container.
Good to hear this worked well for you. You could try running Trueplay to tidy up the bass if the sub doesn’t have a knob to adjust the levels. Are you using the Symfonisks as the rears and running the cable out of the port on the front to avoid drilling holes? Are you asking if leaving this hooked up permanently to your sub is harmful? It’s not, just be careful to not cross the wires if you ever unhook it from the sub.
Wow, great video! I was thinking of just connecting an inexpensive sub to a used Sonos Connect and controlling it as a separate 'room'. Do you see any shortcomings of that approach? It would be similar to your Gateway approach.
Well there might be another issue. The Sonos Connect - Gen 1 (which are cheap on Ebay) do not support the S2 app but the Symfonisk does. With the S2 app I think you can permanently group the subwoofer 'room' with the beam and surrounds 'room' so that you don't have to do it repeatedly.
@@TheRemedyBand Just reading the forums; says you can only permanently group three or more rooms. In this setup, we only have two rooms, the Beam with Surrounds and the Symfonisk. Wanted to ensure they didn't get un-grouped and also volume simultaneously got adjusted in both rooms, when pointing a remote at the beam. Ideas. Tks
@@TheRemedyBand you’re right, that would be stuck on S1 and I know the Arc needs S2. So this works but probably only with Playbar or maybe Beam, since those can work on S1
Great DIY! Thanks Todd. I just wired my one Symfonisk up yesterday (single binding post setup jumping the Symfonisk woofer but still having it connected as in 9:20 in the vid) using it in my living room as a stereo music system with two Symfonisk’s in stereo. Is it however correctly understood that the Symfonisk that is hooked up to the sub will be “weaker” than the other one because we’re “stealing” some power from it?
If you’re connecting to an amplified subwoofer that has speaker level inputs then there is no impact on the sound of the symfonisk because it doesn’t pull any current and just grabs a signal
Thank you Todd! Great video, so simple to understand and gives you confidence to do it. I wll be using the "GATEWAY" solution for my needs. My question is, do I need to reconnect the ribbon cable, before i close the speaker back?? Again, thank you for this most helpful video!
Glad it’s helpful. Yes, you need to reconnect the ribbon - line it up, flip the black cover down, and add the foam sticker on top. That connects the front panel controls.
Thanks so much for the video Todd, great video to mark the sand for this project. I've also just hooked up the second speaker, maybe a placebo effect but I noticed the bass is punchier/pronounced (?) and requires less volume on the SW itself. Would've loved to try that crossover hack but my subwoofer doesn't have the output speaker-inputs unfortunately. Overall, more than happy with the result - saved me *a lot* of money!
Great to hear this worked well for you. Hooking up a second speaker into the sub would likely add 3db so it should sound louder at the volume position.
Hi Todd. I have a Sonos Beam and was just about ready to order the Sonos sub when I just discovered your Ikea subwoofer hack video. I have great Paradigm powered subwoofer that been has been sitting in my basement since I got rid of my old home stere system. My question is, do you need two Symphonisk or other Sonos speakers to get the signal to my powered subwoofer? Also, will this hack work just for music without the TV being on? Thanks!
Did you end up doing any DIY on your Beam? I was thinking of opening up my beam (gen 1) to see if same can be done directly for that instead of from the symfonisk.
Hello Todd. Thank you so much for all the work you have put in to this. I have one question re the 4 terminal setup on the Symfosk speakers. At 13.58 you make a quick comment that with the 4 terminal setup, both rear speakers MUST be modified, i.e. connected to the sub, whereas with the twin terminal setup, you questioned if there is much to be gained by connecting to both speakers. Could you explain why the difference please?
For that configuration you need to do both speakers but that’s one of a few I cover. The advantage of that is you’re removing bass from the symfonisk’s plate so they sound cleaner. Doing only one side would mean the other might sound a bit distorted at higher volume s compared to the other
Hi. Thank you for some very nice and helpful videos👍🏻😊 Just tried to hack my symfonisk speaker. Disconnected tweeter and woofer from the symfonisk and connected bi-amp to tweeter and woofer on a B&W CM2. I can start the music but when I turn up the volume it shut down (at level 20-30% in the SONOS app). Do you know what could be wrong?
Answering this question here in case somebody stumbles upon it. Turns out you essentially connected the woofer and tweeter because the binding posts were bridged so it was basically shorting out.
Great video Todd! Thanks to you I've successfully added a $130 Polk sub to my setup and love the added depth to the sound. I just hacked it together with whatever I had on hand at the time and was going to go back in and tidy up the wiring a bit and have a question about what wire you recommend. Is there a reason that you recommend 16 gauge wire rather than something smaller and closer to what's in the Symfonisk box? I'm wondering if the thicker wire adds unnecessary resistance to the setup (but admittedly, I don't really know what I'm talking about). Thanks again.
If it’s a short run, you can use thinner (higher gauge) wire but 16ga is about as thin as I like to use. The larger the wire, the less resistance so there’s not downside to beefier wires except cost.
Hi Todd, this was well explained and easy enough to complete. I have a question. I bought Yamaha Sub that has a high cut dial range 40Hz-140Hz. To my understanding that’s the frequency that the sun sends back to speakers. What frequency would be optimal for the Symfonisk base ? Thank you in advance.
I’d try 80-100hz. Basically, the higher the cutoff the less work the symfonisk woofers will need to do but it will make the sub easier to identify so 80hz is usually the standard but if they are working too hard, 100hz is also fine
Just came across your video and if it really does what the title says, then WOW!! I hope the process is easy enough for a normal DIY'er. btw, i already have a 5.1 setup with beam and 2 play 1's. Can i add another subwoofer if i already have the sonos one? Gonna look at the video tomorrow morning. TIA
Yep, I’ve heard from lots of people that it’s easy so give it a go. You can add another sub if you’d like but my hunch is it won’t work as well because when a sub is added, bass is removed from the other speakers to some degree which is where we’re getting our signal from.
Brilliant hack man which really appeals to me as the Sonos sub is beyond my financial means. I’m gonna try the gateway solution and look to pick up a decent used powered sub with speaker input. One question, has the recent S2 software address any of the 2 issues you flagged......sub lag between rooms and the remote volume control issue....I ask because I think S2 brought some new grouping features that may allows any speakers to be grouped in the same room?
Thanks. Good question. I know it would allow you to group your sub room with the speaker room more permanently but I’m not sure about the home theater lag. I have a lot of legacy products do I haven’t made the leap to S2
@@todd.parker Understood. Well Ive ordered my Symfonisk (will be used as a dedicated gateway), a decent but affordable Wharfedale Sub (powered) with speaker inputs connectors. Looking forward to pulling it together next week - will let you know how it goes and if I need any advice with fine tuning. Thanks for sharing the hack once again.
@@tenengasobo7538 Yes - it works fine - I used an app called sonosequencer which allows you to assign the symfonisk as a sub speaker. Works great and even shows up in my sonos player app as a sub with all controls.
This is great thanks! If Im understanding correctly, If I wanted to add this as a sub to a 5.1 Sonos system, Id essentially have to "sub Hack wire" to one of my rears?
Where is the volume Control handled inside the Sonos speaker? Is it handled before the DAC or is it handled in the integrated AMP? I would like To Connect a sub via line in grabing the Signal from the DAC. Will this allow volume Control via Sonos App still be possible ? Thanks for the Great Guides!
This is great and something I surely want to try out. I have two in-ceiling drivers (about 4-5" in diameter) that I'd like to integrate in my Sonos-setup. Should I connect those to (only) the woofer output on the Symfonisk of should I somehow combine both outputs (i.e. also the tweeter output) to the ceiling speakers?
The best approach would be to remove the passive crossover in your ceiling speakers and run a 4 conductor cable from the Symfonisk that connects the tweeter and woofer output to the woofer and tweeter in your ceiling speakers. The symfonisk electronics divide the high and low signals so there’s no need to have the passive crossovers- just wire right to the speaker drivers
@@todd.parker The ceiling speakers are just two 4" drivers (left + right channel) without tweeters and no crossover. They're connected with two separate (2 conductor) cables all the way to the living room (where the hifi-set used to be). My question is: would it make any sense to feed the tweeter signal to the those woofers as well or would that break the system as both tweeter and woofer signals are amplified separately?
@@martijnfigee9170 I don’t think it’s safe to try and combine the amps together like that. I’d only do this with a 2 way speaker so consider swapping the drivers
Hey Todd. Thank you so much for the great videos. I'm about to start the project to add a sub to my beam + 2 symfonix for home theater. I wanted to get your thoughts on how well this would work if I only connect one of the surround symfonix with the sub, instead of both L+R. The two surrounds are on opposite sides of each other and would prefer to reduce the speaker wires to the sub.
Great video, very helpfull!! Only one question.. Is it possibly to use a 2 to 1 RCA splitter connect a 2way RCA to the symfonisk and the one in at the end to subwoofer??
Thank you for this superb guide! I'm wondering if I can set up a true 2.1-system with only RCAs? My super Jamo sub has RCA in and out, but no speaker connectors..
Thanks for the quick reply. So you mean that I don’t have to send the signal back to the speaker from the sub? I really want to use the crossover in the sub to have my Symfonisk work a little ‘lighter’ 😉
@@anders8018 Interesting. So it only has RCA inputs for both input and filtered output? If you don't have speaker in/outputs I don' think there is anything you can do on the signal side of things. You can, however, add a capacitor to the Symfonisk woofer to filter out the bass in a 6db/octave high pass crossover. That would remove some bass from the symfonisks
This is great! Thank you My movie theatre setup will be a Sonos Arc, two IKEA Symfonisk as rear speakers and my old active sub (thanks to you :). Can I use the signal from the woofer amp on one of the rear speakers in my “home theatre” setup to get the correct signal to the sub? Will the sub get the input it needs to play bass at the correct place in movies?
Todd Great and informative videos. I have a question, what about opening up the beam and tap into one of those drivers with a powered subwoofer directly. Would that work? I don't have the space for rear surrounds to go in my living room.
Looking at this quite late.... Fantastic work with so many cases covered! My only remaining concern is that I've seen some people saying that there is a filter cutting bass below 70Hz to avoid 'burning' the Symfonisk (or Play:1) woofer.... this would mean that your sub can't go below 70Hz as well. Any thought?
Thanks Todd for your amazing tutorial. I was wondering if you or anyone else has tried comparing the results using only the input of the sub with the method where you also use the sub output (15:40 vs 16:20)? In other words, should I try to find a sub that has output or is that just unnecessary?
The main benefit it that will remove the bass from the symfonisk so it doesn’t have to work as hard. It’s a lot more complex to wire up so it’s probably not worth it unless you want maximum sound levels. Alternatively, you could filter the bass out by adding a capacitor to the woofers positive terminal. You’d need to look up the size for the desired frequency
This is so helpful. I have a Playbar and planning to add two SYMFONISK for surrounds. Do you think one can use this same concept and tap signal directly from the Playbar that can be fed to a powered amp?
Sure, this technique works for any powered speaker, it's just a matter of being able to open the case, get access to the woofer, and have an airtight way to get a wire connected to the outside world. The symfonisks are cheap and easy to work on but any Sonos speaker would work.
@@todd.parker Thanks for your response. The Playbar has 6 woofers and for the best performance, do you happen to know which of them to tap signal from?
@@todd.parker I will do a test after opening the unit to see how it separates L and R channels, hopefully I can get reliable discrete L and R feeds. Please share the link of the binding posts you used for your installation.
Great video! I have a question about using this for home theater. If Sonos thinks that it’s playing to a symphonisk and not a sub, won’t it not offload the low ends from the arc and the rears? I hear that the arc really shines with the low ends off loaded. Thanks!
Right, from Sonos’s perspective there is no sub so it won’t make any additional adjustments. It’s not the same as having the real sub but it sure is cheaper
Great video Todd! I’ve got a playbar and tied in-wall rears via a Sonos connect amp. This connect amp has direct speaker terminals. Couldn’t I connect an active sub to the amp this same way without tearing down any speakers? Or am I missing something about isolating the subwoofer part of that signal?
Do you have any idea how to add basshakers to sonos? Was thinking of modding a symfonisk and connect its output to another specialized amp including a high pass filter. the symfo -which id probably use via what you call a gateway method - must /should also be configured as sub. (not too sure if you can setup a room with sub only) since sonos changes how the bass is directed to the speaker when using a sub.
Awesome video Todd. You've inspired me to try this with my Sonos HT setup on my two old (rear) Play:1's. Plan is to drilling out the speaker mounting post and feed the wires through there Quick question before I do. Is there any risk/issue with leaving the internal woofer connections in place and just jumping a new set of speaker cables to the powered sub? Would it impact the internal amp for the Play:1 in any way or would it be worth adding a switch to go from internal to external woofer? My use case is wanting to leave the sound of the Play:1's intact for day to day use and then just switching on the Sub when I need to "theatre" mode. Without a switch, by my logic, it would mean that both the internal and powered sub would both be running at the same time but I don't see that being an issue. Just wanted another opinion before I pulled out the Dremel. Appreciate any advice.
The way speaker level inputs work on a powered sub is they have a high impedance so they don't really pull any extra power from the Sonos amp, they just grab a signal. If you connected an unpowered woofer to the Sonos amp in addition to the internal woofer, that would tax the amp because the impedance is cut in half and pulls more current.
@@todd.parker Thanks for coming back Todd. Providing my understanding is correct, it sounds like it’s a bad idea because the Sonos amplifiers would see the active sub as an unpowered unless it was physically disconnected. Do you feel a 3-way toggle switch on the back of the Sonos speaker solve this problem? I’m now thinking wiring the inbuilt woofer to position I, neither woofer to 0 and the powered sub to II therefore making both woofers mutually exclusive. I’m guessing it would mean they can both be connected but not at the same time but still allow me to switch between them. Please forgive the dumb questions. Never really done something like this before
@@iqbalmohammed5696 sorry for the confusion. When I said I powered sub, I meant a sub that doesn’t have its own built-in amplifier. If you have a sub with an amp inside, this will work regardless of if it’s turned on or off, no need to add switches.
I did but I keep messing around and using these for different purposes. You could definitely put it in a smaller enclosure inside a larger speaker. Or (lazy guy way), leave the front baffle off and just mount it inside the cabinet. Since there is plenty of airflow, it wouldn’t count against the cabinet volume. One consideration is you need to have a functional front panel accessible so you can pair it and the ribbon cable is super short.
Hi Todd thank you for this clear video. I have a rell subwoofer that support high level output. For that i need to wire threr wires. Normal on the amp you put on+ one - on the for instance right speaker output and one wire on the left - for ground. Does this mean i have to open up both speakers to get the same result? And in this case does it mather the ground cable is a few meters longer?
@@todd.parker Thanks, the 1% i can live with. Same goes for using my brain at least haha. I shall give a feedback may I find out using one speaker with a rel subwoofer results in a buzzing sound.
In this setup, the Sonos amp isn’t powering your sub. You’re just using it to get a signal to your powered sub’s amp. That Klipsch sub doesn’t have speaker inputs so you need to get a high to low level converter I cover in the video
Great video! I'm thinking about using the "speaker out" from the sub to the woofer that you mentioned. But I only have one symfonisk, in the video it seems like you need to do it for both left and right? Or does it still make sense with just one symfonisk speaker?
hi, the big challenge that I have is using two symfonisk panels as FRONTS to my beam 2. Possibly make the beam function as center only.. All of them have amps, so do I somehow run cables to all the amps? Connected to a 5.1 soundcard with crossovers or smt like that?
@@todd.parker yes you know how this all started, the symfonisk Ikea panels are the ONLY speakers that both sound really good AND are accepted on the wall as fronts by the local government here (ie., girlfriend) 😅 So I am trying to build a 5.1 or 2.1 system around this to hook up to the tv. PS thanks for the quick reply!
Hey Todd - I have a Sonos Beam and two PLAY:1's along with a Sonos Connect:Amp. and Klipsch RPW10. I guess the bass channel is de-activated on the Connect:Amp when I pair it in surround mode. The Klipsch RPW10 has RCA and speaker level input. Should I just buy an IKEA Symonisk to add base? Or two of them to replace the PLAY:1's I have? Thanks for your thoughts in advance.
You could keep the Play:1s, open them to get a wire attached to the woofers to get a signal for the speaker inputs and use your connect amp elsewhere. This technique will work with any Sonos speaker (or any powered speaker for that matter), I just suggest the Symfonisk because they are cheap and easiest to open. Is the connect amp being used now to add the sub to your home theater? If so, can you tell it to act as a sub or is it just a grouped room? If Sonos knows it a proper sub, it will sound better than this hack because the other speakers should get reduced bass for less distortion but it’s a lot of money to just get a signal to your sub
Hi Todd. Great video and work here! I currently have a Beam and am looking to add two Symfonisk and a third party sub. If I wire the two Symfonisk to the sub as a crossover frequency using the output from the sub, adding a switch to the Symfonisk tweeter and then setting them up as surround speakers in the app, what will happen to the quality of sound coming from the Beam if I turn off the Symfonisk tweeters and only allow the bass to come out? Will I be missing some sound components from the Beam?
Hi. If I understand your setup, you’re using the sub speaker in/out to crossover the Symfonisks so they aren’t producing as much bass and letting the sub do the work which is good, that’s the ideal setup. There’s no need to mess with the tweeters though, this should sound balanced as is. If you shit them off, the surrounds will sound pretty muffled but whatever you do to the Symfonisks internally wont change the Beams sound. From Sonos’ perspective, all I knows is whether you’ve added surrounds or the official sub and will adjust from there. In this case Sonos never sees the sub so it routes sounds as if you just have the Beam and surrounds
@@todd.parker I was trying to figure out a way around being still able to control the volume from my tv remote using the 'Gateway' technique by cutting out the tweeters, but I guess that wouldn't work. I am just going to go with the 'Crossover' technique and keep the tweeters in use. Another question: what is the best way to connect the wires from the Woofer Amp to the inside of the binding posts and then from the other set of the binding posts back to the woofer? Can you use ring connectors on the speaker wire or use disconnects? Thanks Todd!
This is very cool. I wonder if it's possible for Symfonisk(s) to power an outdoor speaker system that has 2x Bose Free Space 51 and 2X Sonance 6.5 inch speakers i.e. use Symfonisk amp in the place of Sonos amp.
hey, thanks for these ideas, will try it out! I was wondering if instead, I could just use two symfonisk picture frames as left and right front channels, paired to e.g. a bose 900; plus any sub.... because it would greatly enhance the front audio, which seems to make more sense to me for regular tv viewing in stereo...
In this scenario is the Bose a center channel? In short, you can either skim a signal off the woofer and send it to to a powered sub OR disconnect the internal drivers and use them to power a 2 way speaker. You can’t add extra passive speakers because it wall tax the amps too much
@@todd.parker yes, indeed it would be center only :) and I just found this comment again, I forgot i wrote it and just commented again because by now i got a beam 2 and two symfonisk panels, still have that idea in my head...
@@todd.parker ps so i was hoping for a totally different approach, send an unamplified 5.1 signal to all the amps, split into tweeter and woofer signals etc.. (for the front left and right symfonisks, and another into the beam or any other center speaker...)...
Thanks for this. 🙌🏼 When introducing the pukka SONOS sub does the app perform any magic by changing the output of the other speakers for example : taking away any bass duties and upping the ‘mid range’ from existing speakers? With this in mind does the SONOS sub sound heaps better than the hacked setup?
No, Sonos doesn't really know what going on so it can't do smart things like remove bass because you have a sub. The official sub sounds great but not heaps better.
I have a Beam and SLs as surrounds. If I were to do a Gateway set up, I would still be adding some bass to my movies, right? I would just have to pair the ‘sub’ to the same room.
I don’t have a video on moving the guts into a sub and I don’t think that makes sense. If you want to use the Symfonisks to bi-amp a passive 2 way speaker, it makes sense and someone posted a blog post on how to do it
I am thinking of try this, my sub does have an input/output. If it added the output and return on the sonos speaker can I join the two together if I needed to remove the sub temporarily? I assume I could.
I want to use the IKEA speakers to act as a Sonos amp for existing in-ceiling speakers in my house. From watching this video, it looks like it may be possible as long as the existing ceiling speakers are two-way, is that correct? Also, would that mean, I would need to run additional wire to in-ceiling speakers to make a circuit, per se, and the existing wiring would be insufficient?
Yes, it will work but you’d need to run 4 conductor wire to the speakers and directly wire them to the woofer and tweeter (bypass the passive crossovers)
@@todd.parker That's great, and I got it playing music. Thanks! Now just need to figure out the in-wall wiring... Curious - how does this compare to the hacks that require board soldering? Is this direct wiring technique to the tweeter and woofer sonically the same, or is the solder technique better?
@@johnkoehnen3183 The soldering hack is intended to get a full range signal so you can basically use the Symfonisk as a Connect so you can connect your own amp and speakers. If you want to use the built-in electronic crossover and amps to bi-amp your ceiling speakers, this is a better way to go. I have a video that covers the bi-amping in detail.
I had an thought. Can you just remove all in the Interals of the speaker. The signal, power etc and put them in a small home made box. And plug it in the wall and the sub Into it.
Todd Do you have any hacks that would allow me to convert the Symfonisk to bluetooth? I want to use the Symfonisk with m y TV and with my laptop. I purchased a small bluetooth amplifier. How would I connect it? Is there a way to use the internal amp and add bluetooth to the Symfonisk?
I have 1x Sonos one and 1x symfonisk. Now io open the symfonisk and wire my 3rd party sub. My problem I can’t Create a 2.1 with 1xone and 1x symfonisk( sonos says : I need two symfonisk or two one) . But I can play all together in one group. Is that okay ? Or ist Stereopair + sub much better ? It is living room and dining room together but it is one big room it is not seperate (it is a open house) thx
I also not sure about my sub. I want to make level 3 (high level in and out back to symfonisk, but my canton movie 60 sub just have high level input and mono L / R (is this Output, no ?!?) It looks like level input ist - - and mono L/R is + + ??? And Can I still use my RCA cable for my Sony receiver which I USE for my TV sound.
When there’s a Sonos sub, reviewers mentioned that the bar focuses less on bass...Do you know if there’s a way to force/enable this using the hack? TIA
Does it work if I just hook up the sub cable to the sub port on the sonos amp? Or do I need the speaker/RCA cables as well? I want to hook up the bose acoustimass to the sonos amp and it only has the sub port.
Hi. Im planning to use two old speakers ( bit like tonsil altus ) and old amplifier but I want to rebuild all speaker and just put in a symfonisk into them and receive mono signal before Amp. To provide that signal to old amp. I know it's gonna add additional dual wire each speaker. I just have few questions did symfos getting hot on running? I saw those power management and I'm quite scared of those low end capacitors. I'm thinking to making symfonisk sliding to the holes in the speaker and worried also about damaging sound quality because all around them gonna be thick wood wall.
They don’t get very hot so I don’t think heat is a problem. The wood might block the Wi-Fi a bit but in don’t think it’s a problem. Are you planning on using the symfonisk to bi-amp these because they look like a 3 way speaker so I don’t think that will work
@@todd.parker i just want to take output signal before built-in symfsonik amp and provide that signal to Techniks old bulky amp and send it back to the speaker. That's gonna double wiring between speakers and Tehniks amp. But I'm gonna be able play my Dolby atmos from my tv with sonos sound bar beam2. On the same time from my speakers and also synfonik. And not need to waste money for sonos sub or sonos. port.
Todd. For home stereo setup: Can you wire it up in the simplest set up just left or right in the case you dont have a way to hide wires. What would be the issue
Yeah, I don't think you gain much by adding the second channel. If you listen to certain kinds of music, there might be bass directed at only one channel but I have a hunch that's rare.
@@todd.parker Awesome, Do you have to use a line out converter. Could you avoide it by using and LFE to Banana Cable/RCA to Banana Cable. Im looking at pairing an SVS sub as they are running a good deal on PB2000 right now
Jonathan Newman you definitely don’t want to plug an amplified signal into the line level input as it might damage that. The converters are cheap and work pretty well
Hi Todd thanks for your great video. I have a question. Im running now a full sonos 5.0 thats a playbar and 2x play 1. I want to add just a sub. Do i have to tear down one of my play 1 or can i use a symfonisk speaker just for adding the sub. Thanks
If you don’t want to open your play 1’s, you can use the sub gateway option in this video where you set the symfonisk up as a room and group it to your home theater room
Is there any way you could mount all of the wires and the circuit board inside a sub just to get the bass? Want to make a tidy-looking sub and have no need for more high level sounds, just the sub.
Sure! You could even just remove the front panel and maybe one side wall and mount that into the sub although you’d need a way to get the speaker wires soldered to the input terminals from the inside
Todd Parker As a very non experienced person, could you explain to me: as I’m connecting the wires directly to the sub, does that mean I get a “gateway solution”? Also, do I need the wires from the non bass part thingy connected at all or could those be removed completely?
TheResistance2fan1 If this is your first time, there are a few things that might be pretty tricky to do such as making the front panel buttons accessible through the sub cabinet and tapping into the plate amp of the sub to route the signal wiring. Hard to explain in a comment, unfortunately
@@todd.parker Thanks for the reply, hacking a Symfonisk just seems like a great way to test out DM speakers that have been featured on UA-cam to see if they are as good as some people say..!
@@sacundai5371 it definitely it but just keep in mind there is an electronic crossover so you can’t get a full range signal out of these, only highs or lows
@@todd.parker I was thinking about.. Using my Beam + Symfonisk Cheap Sub (Input+Output) + Symfonisk Tweeter hack to Foam Board Speaker? Do you think this would this seem plausible?
@@sacundai5371 Maybe not. Are you planning on still using the internal Symfonisk woofer? If not, you’ll have a huge hole in the frequencies. The sub works below 100hz or so. The tweeter goes from 2,000hz and up. If you don’t have a midbass/woofer, you’re missing all the sound form 100-2,000hz.
Sorry I'm slightly confused. I'm running a sonos playbar, it is connected to the TV through optical, then sends wireless to 2 sonos 1. Do I need to open the playbar up and wire from the sub speakers or are the ikea symfonisk connected wirelessly through WiFi and I just wire from that to my active sub?
You need to get a signal to feed into your powered sub. You can either jump off a woofer in the playbar or 1’s to feed in, or use a symfonisk grouped to your home theater room as a gateway. All the scenarios are covered in detail in this video
Thanks for the video! I've connected a REL Qauke to a Symfonik as a portal. When I disconnect the woofer of the Symfonisk the REL gives a hum. When connected it doesn't. Do you have any idea how to fix this?
Hmm. That's interesting. Does it sound like a 60hz AC sort of hum or something different? I wonder if there is some electrical noise and somehow the internal woofer is keeping to shield that? If it's distracting, maybe you could keep the symfonisk woofer connected but attenuate it's output nearly to zero by using some beefy resistors or potentiometer? Just a guess. Maybe try plugging the Symfonisk and/or sub into different outlets.
@@todd.parker Yes I think it sounds like a 60hz AC hum (based on a youtube example video). I'm going to try some different outlets first. I'm not a hero with resistors or potentiometers...
Try adding a ground loop isolator into your setup. If you are using the RCA input into your sub then you could try something like this www.amazon.co.uk/Ground-isolator-audio-noise-removal/dp/B000KHBU1G. If using the speaker level inputs, then try moving your cables further away from any mains cables
@todd.parker I have two Play:5 Gen.1 - which Sonos now is saying has too little memory to stream Spotify without pausing music intermittently. Do you think It would make sense to use a Symfonisk and hook that up to the Play 5 and stream the music from the Symfonisk to the speaker part of the Play 5?
@@lovejoyone The simple answer is to connect the wires from the Sonos speaker's woofer and run it to your sub. The older Play 5 is a 3 way system so you'd want to connect to the central sub since that would have the lowest frequencies. This should help: www.ifixit.com/Guide/Sonos+Play+5+Subwoofer+Replacement/86634
@@todd.parker Sorry - maybe I am not asking correctly. Basically - my Play5 gen 1 is kind of bricked to me - as it can no longer stream from spotify( but fine stream radio and other streamimg services) without pausing often. Sonos support has investigated - and informa me that it is because of too little memory in the gen 1. My quest is - how can i get the Play5 up running again - by using a symfonisk to do the streaming part( that one has lots of memory) and the Play 5 to play that streamed music from the Play 5 3-way speakers( not only the bass) hope this makes better sense
Sorry too many comment threads here. There is no way to directly connect those. You could try to stream to a more modern speaker like a Symfonisk, then *group* that with your Play:5 to see if that helps. I'm not sure it will but it's worth a try. I you have other, newer Sonos speakers on hand, you can try it before committing to a purchase
If you where to use the method to cross over and had only rca connections on the the sub would you need to use 2 in line converters (one for input and one for output)
If you only have RCA connections then you can’t use the sub to crossover the speakers. The converters only concert down to a signal, not up to a powered signal (amplifier) so I’d either get a sub with speaker inputs or use the simple setup
Isn’t the audio within the LFE filtered out by the DSP and as such the Sonos surround synphinisk or play etc doesn’t actually receive the LFE audio anyway. Yes the low frequencies are transferred to the sub in this set up but LFE isn’t there so cannot be tapped into for the sub
If image that if you had an official sub connected that it might filter out some bass but in my tests there was a ton of low end information sent to the surrounds which really supreme. It’s not the same as a dedicated LFE channel obviously but more than enough to add a lot of bass to the mix
the easiest way to connect a subwoofer to a SONOS or IKEA system is with a SONOS CONECT, so easy, you can move a subwoofer any distance without wiring throughout the room
Hi Tod, I have an ALR Nummer 2 but their power is 150 watts what components do I need for their work Crossover with a filter I have already taken out of them
@@axab2004 I think the Symfonisk amps will be able to drive these fairly well since they are 90db efficiency. I wouldn't bother trying to add in other amps, that sort of ruins the purpose fo bi-amping this way.
I don't understand, why not use the output from the Sonos Amp for power a Sel amplifier sub and drive passive speakers for a simple and integrated setup with out having to buy speakers and do all that
Well, the Sonos amp is $700 which is very pricy for a 2 channel amp. With this, you can buy a pair of Symfonisk and add a cheap $100-200 sub for a nice 2.1 system. Or use them as surrounds in a a home theater and hook up a cheap sub. Or skip the internal drivers and bi-amp a pair of passive 2 way speakers. Different use cases, both have a place
You really can’t unfortunately. A sub can only be added to another Sonos speaker and there is no way to get a signal into it. If you want to sell it cheap, I’ll buy it from ya and you can buy a regular powered sub :)
UPDATE: I had to re-upload to fix an audio issue. This is a long video to cover everyone's questions so here are some jump links:
0:45 - How speaker level sub inputs work
7:09 - Inside your Sonos and why a line is tricky
9:06 - Stereo subwoofer wiring
14:40 - Home theater setup
19:42 - Setting up a sub as a separate 'room'
21:09 - Adding switches
23:48 - Bi-amping passive speakers
Recommended subwoofers on Amazon ~$100:
Polk 10" - amzn.to/2RcWV1q
Monoprice 8" - amzn.to/3696umd
Monoprice premium 8" - amzn.to/2Rdl73O
Acoustic Audio 8" - amzn.to/2TVfCZt
Note: any subwoofer brand or size will work as long as it's amplified and has speaker level inputs - if it only has RCA inputs, look elsewhere.
Thank you for the video. Is there anyway we can tweak the Sonos to add Bluetooth ?
Can you add it inside Sonos app as a sub or will Sonos app not recognize it as such and instead will still see it as a Symfonisk speaker? If so, then buy 1 Symfonisk speaker, disable tweeter/sub inside rear speaker and jump it to the 3rd party sub. Thoughts?
Thanks!
Ray J Sonos will always see this as a Symfonisk but you can disable the internal drivers and that use it to get a signal to a sub. I cover that in the video as the separate zone/room approach
@@todd.parker Thanks, must have missed it. Was hoping I could add it as a sub only but obviously Sonos has it setup to detect the board/electronics as Symfonisk's speaker. Now.. Only if we could flash the board :)
Thanks again and appreciate the quick feedback.
I'm new here but IKEA??? I thought only Sonos speakers work with Sonos???
I got a symfonisk today and followed your guide. I changed from a polk 5.1 system to a sonos playbase and 2 play 1s. I used the symfonisk as a gateway to a polk psw450. Everything is working great. Thanks for sharing your knowledge 🙏🏾✌🏾
Awesome, great to hear it worked!
Thank for the info. I will definitively try this as soon as I got some free time (I'm in a touristic place, we just started high season 3 weeks ago)
One important additional function the speaker-to-RCA converters also perform is ground isolation. The RCA jacks on the subwoofer share a common ground (outer terminal ring), while the speaker connections from the amplifier have isolated grounds. The converter uses 1:1 audio transformers on each channel to "lift" the grounds, thus preventing the grounds from being electrically connected when the converter wires into the sub's input jacks.
You tube videos don’t get better than this... thank you
this is just brilliant! thank you SO MUCH! I have a Beam and two Play:1's for my surround sound. it's needed a sub so badly, but there's no way I am spending $800 to achieve it. Everything I read online had said it wasn't possible to use a 3rd party sub. But with your guide & a $60 sub from FB marketplace I got it wired up and working, sounds fantastic!! Thanks again!
So great to hear it worked well for you!
Thanks Todd. Super easy project with great benefits. I used an old Polk Audio sub that was collecting dust and picked up the Symfonisk speaker at Ikea. Now my Sonos ecosystem has the bottom end it was missing. Great video.
You just inspired me to buy a soldering pen! You rock man, thanks for being part of the UA-cam community! 🤙
Hey that’s great. And thanks for the kind words!
This is so awesome. Thank you for the detailed video! Totally going to try it
Thanks for all you’ve done.
A few things I found doing it last night…
The front panel buttons must be active to connect the Symfonisk as it asks you press a button to confirm.
And I couldn’t add a third Symfonisk to the “Living Room” (Beam+2xSymfonisk). Nor could I change the name. So I added it to another room and made the room name “Subwoofer”. Then made sure to add it when using the Living Room.
Maybe it’s the new version of the app?
Not sure if you're the reason why the Symfonisk is always out of stock at my local Ikea's. This hacks will certainly will give new life to my pair of Celestion 3s. Now, if I can find those in my store room! Thanks for the great video!
Heh, that would be funny. Glad this hack worked for you, I’m still enjoying my bi-amped Klipsch KG4’s every day!
Hey Todd
First of all thank you for this great tutorial. I tried it with some messy and temporary cabling and everything worked perfectly.
Now I installed a switch for the tweeter and some sockets for the in and out for and to the sub it looks good and sounds even better.
In addition as a little hint i used male AND female connectors so i did not have to cut any original cables.
Oliver
Excellent to hear, so glad it all worked for you!
Holy moly Todd! Thanks. Been looking to do this for a long time.
Glad it was helpful, good luck on your mods
Line level can be taken Post PCM chip. The Crossover is visible on the PCB. You can combine the signal or HIGH/LOW from the negative terminals of each Capacitor in the Crossover network. The Signal GND can be taken from any ground on the PCB. This signal (POST AMP) removes any Impedance / Frequency issues caused by using the signal Texas instruments AMP and then stepping back down to line level. It is well documented however Todd has probably already published this so to save embarrassment, all I can suggest is, I hope you're handy with a soldering iron. Oh and lastly, if you do want to Run directly from the AMP and wish to use your speakers Inbuild Crossover, you can do this by converting the Sonos AMP chip into Bridged mode (very Fiddley). I am currently running in this config to a pair of Q acoustics 3020i's. The Symfonisk's/3020i's (Post Trueplay) do an admirable job as surrounds.
Thanks for all the details. This video is pretty old but as you said if you’re handy with a soldering iron you can probably get in and get a signal. I was trying to do some thing that was a bit easier but it didn’t work
In taking line Level as described, will volume Control via Sonos App still work ?
Thanks
Id love to learn how to do add a pair of powered SVS subs to my Arc.❤
I was thinking the same with beam. I guess conceptually it should work the same, as long as it has separated woofer amp. I was wondering if the new Arc ultra has even a dedicated sub amp which would be even easier to jump from and disable its own sub channel.
It would totally work but a product like the Arc is packed with components so opening it up and getting a neat cable out is probably really tricky. I wish they offered a $100 sub out box but that's bad for sub sales. You can tap into the rear channels or use the gateway approach, neither is perfect but works surprisingly well
Just wanted to say a big thank, Todd! I am not your DIY guru by any means but I found your videos very useful with clear instructions. I tried the frequecy cross over method hack and I was blown away. The surround effect is just amazing. I am thinking about bi-amping my setup but not sure how to do that. Do I need to drill for another pair of binding posts for access to the tweeter inputs? Can you please share a wiring diagram?
Hi, glad that worked. To buy-amp, yes you need another set of binding posts. The wiring couldn’t be simpler - you unplug the symfonisk tweeter and wire the tweeter amp directly to your other speakers tweeter (no crossover). Repeat for the woofer and you’re done!
Brilliant video so helpful thanks you for all the time and effort you put in. Gonna use with my play 1.
This is definitely a cool hack. . Is there anyway to fool the Sonos app into thinking you got a Sonos sub so you can do a 5.1 set up with standard subwoofer?
Not that I’ve figured out, no
Hi Todd, thank you for your amazing video, I am going to do this as well. Therefore I bought secondhanded B&W DM305 speakers. However, from your considerations I am not fully sure if these speakers are ok. You mentioned 3 considerations:
1. Sensitivity: the woofer and tweeter should be close to each other in terms of db
2. Impediance: the subwoofer should be around 8 ohms and the tweeter 4 ohms and definately not lower than 4 ohms
3. Frequency crossover: it should cover the 3000hz crossover (later you found it was 1600hz)
I looked up documents of the speakers I bought but I am still not sure if they are ok. Below you find some information that i have found and my related questions are below the specs.
System type: 2-way
Enclosure type: Bass-reflex
Frequency response: ± 3dB 55 - 20000 Hz
Nominal impedance: 8 Ohm
Amplifier Requirements: 25 - 120 W
Sensitivity (2.83V/1m) : 91 dB
Tweeter 25 mm: (1 in.)
Woofer 165 mm: (6.5 in.)
Questions:
- I can only find one spec about resistance (8ohm), is this ok then because it is in the range?
- can i assume that the crossover frequency and range are ok because they are already in one speaker together (woofer and tweeter) and the range is between your reccommendation?
- Can the symfonisk handle the power that is required for my speakers? It seems so (T)odd that this small symfonisk speaker can handle such a big B&W DM305 speaker.
Last question: is there anything else I should consider or take into account?
Many thanks from Holland. I have watched your videos multiple times and get really exited by it! I am dreaming of building and DIY it all the time! Thanks!!
Hi! Based on these specs, I think these should be a good fit for bi-amping. The 8 ohm impedance for the overall speakers means the woofer is likely 8 ohms and trueplay can smooth out any differences in efficiency. I think you’re good!
@@todd.parker you are awesome
Excellent stuff! Highly enjoyed the video!
Glad you liked it!
Hello. Since this video is over a year old, I wanted to check before I attempt my own setup. I have a playbar and two One SLs. I just want to hook up a powered sub but cannot afford the Sonos sub. Could I get away with one Symfonics speaker? Or would I need to get two and run the powered sub off of one of them? Thanks I’m advance for all of your time and efforts.
If you’re up to opening the One SL, you can get a signal off the woofer for the sun. Alternatively you can get a single symfonisk, unhook all the drivers and just use it as a way to connect the sub as a separate room you group with the soundbar room. I cover all these scenarios in detail
@@todd.parker Thanks. I’ll look at opening up the Sonos One SL first. I didn’t realize I could do that. I saw your demo on the second room option. If I remember correctly, there were some issues with delays. Do you have a video of opening up the SL? Thanks again
Grouping rooms has a bit more delay than the speakers in a home theater room but it’s pretty minimal. There are a few teardowns like this one: ua-cam.com/video/OXce4QEgOgA/v-deo.html
The tricky thing is finding a good spot for the binding posts with the wraparound grill
@@Tpeazy1980 Someone did something similar here ua-cam.com/video/w76p6VchxgA/v-deo.html
I also have a Playbar and considering connecting an external powered sub directly to it...wish me luck.
I did this with a Sonos Beam and 2 Sonos Symfonisk system. I hooked up an old Sony subwoofer (fairly large) to the left Symfonisk. The sound system now shakes the entire house. If you are looking to add bass to your system cheaply, this is the perfect solution. As a complete novice to wiring speakers (I followed the steps provided in the video because I was afraid of breaking something), I can say this can be easily completed. The only thing that I can say is a problem is that I feel like the voice of videos is overcome by the bass outputted. Not sure how to fix this or if there’s a fix. I’ve messed with the EQ settings of the group on the Sonos application to temporarily fix each situation. Thank you for the hack! Also, is leaving the inside of the Sonos Symfonisk dangerous/harmful to the speaker? I really wouldn’t like to drill a hole in the casing and have run the wire through the opening within the container.
Good to hear this worked well for you. You could try running Trueplay to tidy up the bass if the sub doesn’t have a knob to adjust the levels. Are you using the Symfonisks as the rears and running the cable out of the port on the front to avoid drilling holes? Are you asking if leaving this hooked up permanently to your sub is harmful? It’s not, just be careful to not cross the wires if you ever unhook it from the sub.
Todd Parker Yessir that answered my questions exactly. Thank you.
Wow, great video! I was thinking of just connecting an inexpensive sub to a used Sonos Connect and controlling it as a separate 'room'. Do you see any shortcomings of that approach? It would be similar to your Gateway approach.
Yep, same thing. If you own a connect, that’s even better
Well there might be another issue. The Sonos Connect - Gen 1 (which are cheap on Ebay) do not support the S2 app but the Symfonisk does. With the S2 app I think you can permanently group the subwoofer 'room' with the beam and surrounds 'room' so that you don't have to do it repeatedly.
@@TheRemedyBand Just reading the forums; says you can only permanently group three or more rooms. In this setup, we only have two rooms, the Beam with Surrounds and the Symfonisk. Wanted to ensure they didn't get un-grouped and also volume simultaneously got adjusted in both rooms, when pointing a remote at the beam. Ideas. Tks
@@HES1000 I'm using a Sonos Connect for the sub so I'm limited to S1 and I have to regroup the sub whenever I want it, not a big deal.
@@TheRemedyBand you’re right, that would be stuck on S1 and I know the Arc needs S2. So this works but probably only with Playbar or maybe Beam, since those can work on S1
Great DIY! Thanks Todd. I just wired my one Symfonisk up yesterday (single binding post setup jumping the Symfonisk woofer but still having it connected as in 9:20 in the vid) using it in my living room as a stereo music system with two Symfonisk’s in stereo. Is it however correctly understood that the Symfonisk that is hooked up to the sub will be “weaker” than the other one because we’re “stealing” some power from it?
If you’re connecting to an amplified subwoofer that has speaker level inputs then there is no impact on the sound of the symfonisk because it doesn’t pull any current and just grabs a signal
Great video's.
I have a woofer that only has one input (LFE) is there a converter that I can use with this subwoofer
You only need one input, really but if it doesn’t have speaker inputs you can buy a speaker to signal converter to make it work
Thank you Todd! Great video, so simple to understand and gives you confidence to do it.
I wll be using the "GATEWAY" solution for my needs.
My question is, do I need to reconnect the ribbon cable, before i close the speaker back??
Again, thank you for this most helpful video!
Glad it’s helpful. Yes, you need to reconnect the ribbon - line it up, flip the black cover down, and add the foam sticker on top. That connects the front panel controls.
Dude that was an awesome video!!
Thanks!
Thanks so much for the video Todd, great video to mark the sand for this project. I've also just hooked up the second speaker, maybe a placebo effect but I noticed the bass is punchier/pronounced (?) and requires less volume on the SW itself. Would've loved to try that crossover hack but my subwoofer doesn't have the output speaker-inputs unfortunately. Overall, more than happy with the result - saved me *a lot* of money!
Great to hear this worked well for you. Hooking up a second speaker into the sub would likely add 3db so it should sound louder at the volume position.
Hi Todd. I have a Sonos Beam and was just about ready to order the Sonos sub when I just discovered your Ikea subwoofer hack video. I have great Paradigm powered subwoofer that been has been sitting in my basement since I got rid of my old home stere system. My question is, do you need two Symphonisk or other Sonos speakers to get the signal to my powered subwoofer? Also, will this hack work just for music without the TV being on? Thanks!
Did you end up doing any DIY on your Beam? I was thinking of opening up my beam (gen 1) to see if same can be done directly for that instead of from the symfonisk.
Hello Todd. Thank you so much for all the work you have put in to this.
I have one question re the 4 terminal setup on the Symfosk speakers. At 13.58 you make a quick comment that with the 4 terminal setup, both rear speakers MUST be modified, i.e. connected to the sub, whereas with the twin terminal setup, you questioned if there is much to be gained by connecting to both speakers. Could you explain why the difference please?
For that configuration you need to do both speakers but that’s one of a few I cover. The advantage of that is you’re removing bass from the symfonisk’s plate so they sound cleaner. Doing only one side would mean the other might sound a bit distorted at higher volume s compared to the other
Great video! Thanks. Are there any safety concerns if you just wrap the wires to the posts instead of soldering?
As long as they can’t come loose and short out on the metal basket or other wire, sure. I’d use hot glue to keep them in place
Hi. Thank you for some very nice and helpful videos👍🏻😊 Just tried to hack my symfonisk speaker. Disconnected tweeter and woofer from the symfonisk and connected bi-amp to tweeter and woofer on a B&W CM2. I can start the music but when I turn up the volume it shut down (at level 20-30% in the SONOS app). Do you know what could be wrong?
Answering this question here in case somebody stumbles upon it. Turns out you essentially connected the woofer and tweeter because the binding posts were bridged so it was basically shorting out.
Great video Todd! Thanks to you I've successfully added a $130 Polk sub to my setup and love the added depth to the sound. I just hacked it together with whatever I had on hand at the time and was going to go back in and tidy up the wiring a bit and have a question about what wire you recommend. Is there a reason that you recommend 16 gauge wire rather than something smaller and closer to what's in the Symfonisk box? I'm wondering if the thicker wire adds unnecessary resistance to the setup (but admittedly, I don't really know what I'm talking about). Thanks again.
If it’s a short run, you can use thinner (higher gauge) wire but 16ga is about as thin as I like to use. The larger the wire, the less resistance so there’s not downside to beefier wires except cost.
excellent info,thanks a lot for sharing
Hi Todd, this was well explained and easy enough to complete. I have a question. I bought Yamaha Sub that has a high cut dial range 40Hz-140Hz. To my understanding that’s the frequency that the sun sends back to speakers. What frequency would be optimal for the Symfonisk base ? Thank you in advance.
I’d try 80-100hz. Basically, the higher the cutoff the less work the symfonisk woofers will need to do but it will make the sub easier to identify so 80hz is usually the standard but if they are working too hard, 100hz is also fine
Just came across your video and if it really does what the title says, then WOW!! I hope the process is easy enough for a normal DIY'er. btw, i already have a 5.1 setup with beam and 2 play 1's. Can i add another subwoofer if i already have the sonos one? Gonna look at the video tomorrow morning. TIA
Yep, I’ve heard from lots of people that it’s easy so give it a go. You can add another sub if you’d like but my hunch is it won’t work as well because when a sub is added, bass is removed from the other speakers to some degree which is where we’re getting our signal from.
Brilliant hack man which really appeals to me as the Sonos sub is beyond my financial means. I’m gonna try the gateway solution and look to pick up a decent used powered sub with speaker input. One question, has the recent S2 software address any of the 2 issues you flagged......sub lag between rooms and the remote volume control issue....I ask because I think S2 brought some new grouping features that may allows any speakers to be grouped in the same room?
Thanks. Good question. I know it would allow you to group your sub room with the speaker room more permanently but I’m not sure about the home theater lag. I have a lot of legacy products do I haven’t made the leap to S2
@@todd.parker Understood. Well Ive ordered my Symfonisk (will be used as a dedicated gateway), a decent but affordable Wharfedale Sub (powered) with speaker inputs connectors. Looking forward to pulling it together next week - will let you know how it goes and if I need any advice with fine tuning. Thanks for sharing the hack once again.
Thanks Todd again for the video.
@Andrew, any feedback...did it work, no sound delay?
@@tenengasobo7538 Yes - it works fine - I used an app called sonosequencer which allows you to assign the symfonisk as a sub speaker. Works great and even shows up in my sonos player app as a sub with all controls.
This is great thanks! If Im understanding correctly, If I wanted to add this as a sub to a 5.1 Sonos system, Id essentially have to "sub Hack wire" to one of my rears?
Yes, that's the easiest way to go and works very well
Where is the volume Control handled inside the Sonos speaker? Is it handled before the DAC or is it handled in the integrated AMP? I would like To Connect a sub via line in grabing the Signal from the DAC. Will this allow volume Control via Sonos App still be possible ?
Thanks for the Great Guides!
Great video Todd. What if the powered subwoofer only has one LINE INPUT RCA connector (ONKYO SKW-204)? Thank you in advance.
You can use a converter, I cover that in the video
This is great and something I surely want to try out. I have two in-ceiling drivers (about 4-5" in diameter) that I'd like to integrate in my Sonos-setup. Should I connect those to (only) the woofer output on the Symfonisk of should I somehow combine both outputs (i.e. also the tweeter output) to the ceiling speakers?
The best approach would be to remove the passive crossover in your ceiling speakers and run a 4 conductor cable from the Symfonisk that connects the tweeter and woofer output to the woofer and tweeter in your ceiling speakers. The symfonisk electronics divide the high and low signals so there’s no need to have the passive crossovers- just wire right to the speaker drivers
@@todd.parker The ceiling speakers are just two 4" drivers (left + right channel) without tweeters and no crossover. They're connected with two separate (2 conductor) cables all the way to the living room (where the hifi-set used to be). My question is: would it make any sense to feed the tweeter signal to the those woofers as well or would that break the system as both tweeter and woofer signals are amplified separately?
@@martijnfigee9170 I don’t think it’s safe to try and combine the amps together like that. I’d only do this with a 2 way speaker so consider swapping the drivers
Hey Todd. Thank you so much for the great videos. I'm about to start the project to add a sub to my beam + 2 symfonix for home theater. I wanted to get your thoughts on how well this would work if I only connect one of the surround symfonix with the sub, instead of both L+R. The two surrounds are on opposite sides of each other and would prefer to reduce the speaker wires to the sub.
I only used one channel in my setup and it sounds great
Great video, very helpfull!! Only one question.. Is it possibly to use a 2 to 1 RCA splitter connect a 2way RCA to the symfonisk and the one in at the end to subwoofer??
The Symfonisk doesn’t have RCA inputs or outputs, unfortunately
Thank you for this superb guide! I'm wondering if I can set up a true 2.1-system with only RCAs? My super Jamo sub has RCA in and out, but no speaker connectors..
You just need to buy a high level (speaker) to low level (rca) converter. I cover recommendations in the video
Thanks for the quick reply. So you mean that I don’t have to send the signal back to the speaker from the sub? I really want to use the crossover in the sub to have my Symfonisk work a little ‘lighter’ 😉
@@anders8018 Interesting. So it only has RCA inputs for both input and filtered output? If you don't have speaker in/outputs I don' think there is anything you can do on the signal side of things. You can, however, add a capacitor to the Symfonisk woofer to filter out the bass in a 6db/octave high pass crossover. That would remove some bass from the symfonisks
@@todd.parker Thanks again ! This sounds a bit out of my league, I think I stick with the solution in your first reply.😉
Thanks again !!
This is great! Thank you
My movie theatre setup will be a Sonos Arc, two IKEA Symfonisk as rear speakers and my old active sub (thanks to you :). Can I use the signal from the woofer amp on one of the rear speakers in my “home theatre” setup to get the correct signal to the sub? Will the sub get the input it needs to play bass at the correct place in movies?
Yes and yes. I have more videos on the hack that should answer all your questions but that will work like a charm
Todd
Great and informative videos.
I have a question, what about opening up the beam and tap into one of those drivers with a powered subwoofer directly. Would that work? I don't have the space for rear surrounds to go in my living room.
Yes, that would work really well. The trick is opening the cabinet and getting an air tight way to connect a wire but it will work like a charm
@@todd.parker great thanks for getting back to me
Todd Parker Can you do a video on how to wire the Beam to a powered sub?
I don’t have a beam but if you can figure out how to open it, just jump wires off a woofer like I did with the Symfonisk. Look for a teardown video
Todd Parker Thanks for the quick response. Unfortunately I haven’t been able to find any teardown videos on the beam. Do you know of any?
Looking at this quite late.... Fantastic work with so many cases covered! My only remaining concern is that I've seen some people saying that there is a filter cutting bass below 70Hz to avoid 'burning' the Symfonisk (or Play:1) woofer.... this would mean that your sub can't go below 70Hz as well. Any thought?
In my experience, there is no high pass filter and I’m seeing very low frequencies
Thanks Todd for your amazing tutorial.
I was wondering if you or anyone else has tried comparing the results using only the input of the sub with the method where you also use the sub output (15:40 vs 16:20)?
In other words, should I try to find a sub that has output or is that just unnecessary?
The main benefit it that will remove the bass from the symfonisk so it doesn’t have to work as hard. It’s a lot more complex to wire up so it’s probably not worth it unless you want maximum sound levels. Alternatively, you could filter the bass out by adding a capacitor to the woofers positive terminal. You’d need to look up the size for the desired frequency
Thanks!
It ”sounds” as I will take the easy route in that case;)
This is so helpful. I have a Playbar and planning to add two
SYMFONISK for surrounds. Do you think one can use this same concept and tap signal directly from the Playbar that can be fed to a powered amp?
Sure, this technique works for any powered speaker, it's just a matter of being able to open the case, get access to the woofer, and have an airtight way to get a wire connected to the outside world. The symfonisks are cheap and easy to work on but any Sonos speaker would work.
@@todd.parker Thanks for your response. The Playbar has 6 woofers and for the best performance, do you happen to know which of them to tap signal from?
Hmm, I don’t but I think they probably all will give you a good signal
@@todd.parker I will do a test after opening the unit to see how it separates L and R channels, hopefully I can get reliable discrete L and R feeds.
Please share the link of the binding posts you used for your installation.
Great video! I have a question about using this for home theater. If Sonos thinks that it’s playing to a symphonisk and not a sub, won’t it not offload the low ends from the arc and the rears? I hear that the arc really shines with the low ends off loaded. Thanks!
Right, from Sonos’s perspective there is no sub so it won’t make any additional adjustments. It’s not the same as having the real sub but it sure is cheaper
Great video Todd! I’ve got a playbar and tied in-wall rears via a Sonos connect amp. This connect amp has direct speaker terminals. Couldn’t I connect an active sub to the amp this same way without tearing down any speakers? Or am I missing something about isolating the subwoofer part of that signal?
Yep, you can connect from the amp. I think it has RCA output too you could use
Jus saw this video, great info. Could I just use a symfonisk as a sub ? By eliminating the tweeter in the symfonisk and follow the gateway setup ?
Thanks so much Todd!
Do you have any idea how to add basshakers to sonos? Was thinking of modding a symfonisk and connect its output to another specialized amp including a high pass filter. the symfo -which id probably use via what you call a gateway method - must /should also be configured as sub. (not too sure if you can setup a room with sub only) since sonos changes how the bass is directed to the speaker when using a sub.
That works, sure. You need to use a speaker to line level converter if the amp only has RCA inputs.
Awesome video Todd. You've inspired me to try this with my Sonos HT setup on my two old (rear) Play:1's. Plan is to drilling out the speaker mounting post and feed the wires through there
Quick question before I do. Is there any risk/issue with leaving the internal woofer connections in place and just jumping a new set of speaker cables to the powered sub? Would it impact the internal amp for the Play:1 in any way or would it be worth adding a switch to go from internal to external woofer?
My use case is wanting to leave the sound of the Play:1's intact for day to day use and then just switching on the Sub when I need to "theatre" mode. Without a switch, by my logic, it would mean that both the internal and powered sub would both be running at the same time but I don't see that being an issue.
Just wanted another opinion before I pulled out the Dremel. Appreciate any advice.
The way speaker level inputs work on a powered sub is they have a high impedance so they don't really pull any extra power from the Sonos amp, they just grab a signal. If you connected an unpowered woofer to the Sonos amp in addition to the internal woofer, that would tax the amp because the impedance is cut in half and pulls more current.
@@todd.parker Thanks for coming back Todd. Providing my understanding is correct, it sounds like it’s a bad idea because the Sonos amplifiers would see the active sub as an unpowered unless it was physically disconnected.
Do you feel a 3-way toggle switch on the back of the Sonos speaker solve this problem? I’m now thinking wiring the inbuilt woofer to position I, neither woofer to 0 and the powered sub to II therefore making both woofers mutually exclusive. I’m guessing it would mean they can both be connected but not at the same time but still allow me to switch between them.
Please forgive the dumb questions. Never really done something like this before
@@iqbalmohammed5696 sorry for the confusion. When I said I powered sub, I meant a sub that doesn’t have its own built-in amplifier. If you have a sub with an amp inside, this will work regardless of if it’s turned on or off, no need to add switches.
@@todd.parker You sir are awesome. Thanks Todd. Now where did I put the dremel?
did you think about putting the IKEA amp into its own enclosure? it would be nice to have a little amp that can bi-amp any speaker.
I did but I keep messing around and using these for different purposes. You could definitely put it in a smaller enclosure inside a larger speaker. Or (lazy guy way), leave the front baffle off and just mount it inside the cabinet. Since there is plenty of airflow, it wouldn’t count against the cabinet volume. One consideration is you need to have a functional front panel accessible so you can pair it and the ribbon cable is super short.
Stupid question but would I still need to use the Sub 3? I want to order the RSL 10S MKII.
Thanks! Did you experience any “rattling” in your symfonisk once you did this? Seems like the bass is hitting too hard on my surround speakers
If you hear rattling it’s probably air escaping from a seam. Make sure the screws are tight and the wire hole you added is sealed
@@todd.parker thanks man!! That solved it. Appreciate your help!
@@patto46 awesome. It’s high pressure in there so even a small leak can get loud. Glad that worked
Hi Todd thank you for this clear video.
I have a rell subwoofer that support high level output. For that i need to wire threr wires. Normal on the amp you put on+ one - on the for instance right speaker output and one wire on the left - for ground.
Does this mean i have to open up both speakers to get the same result? And in this case does it mather the ground cable is a few meters longer?
Honestly I think you’d get 99% of the same result by just wiring in one speaker
@@todd.parker
Thanks, the 1% i can live with. Same goes for using my brain at least haha. I shall give a feedback may I find out using one speaker with a rel subwoofer results in a buzzing sound.
Great video. Thanks
Hey
At First thx for this awesome Video 👌🤗
Do you think the Power of the Sonos“Amp“ is enough to drive my Klipsch R112 proper?
In this setup, the Sonos amp isn’t powering your sub. You’re just using it to get a signal to your powered sub’s amp. That Klipsch sub doesn’t have speaker inputs so you need to get a high to low level converter I cover in the video
@@todd.parker so just as a Bridge it won’t work ?
INPUTS
L/R line-level/LFE RCA jacks, Wireless WA-2 Port
@@mOtHeRfReQuEnCy if you mean this, it doesn’t sound great. ua-cam.com/video/QhT3j9_6Zic/v-deo.html
Great video! I'm thinking about using the "speaker out" from the sub to the woofer that you mentioned. But I only have one symfonisk, in the video it seems like you need to do it for both left and right? Or does it still make sense with just one symfonisk speaker?
That will work with just one but it means one symfonisk is going to be working hard
Hi Todd! Wich RTA app do you use for measurements and how do you get the test tone to the speaker? Pink noise over spotify? Great inspiration!
Mine is called "analyzer" but this one looks good too: apps.apple.com/us/app/audio-spectrum-analyzer-db-rta/id1281873790
Hi Todd, do you sell them? Love the vid but I don't care to start the project, but I'd like to buy one if available
Unfortunately no
hi, the big challenge that I have is using two symfonisk panels as FRONTS to my beam 2. Possibly make the beam function as
center only.. All of them have amps, so do I somehow run cables to all the amps? Connected to a 5.1 soundcard with crossovers or smt like that?
You can’t do that right now with Sonos. If you want a proper 5.1 system, skip Sonos
@@todd.parker yes you know how this all started, the symfonisk Ikea panels are the ONLY speakers that both sound really good AND are accepted on the wall as fronts by the local government here (ie., girlfriend) 😅
So I am trying to build a 5.1 or 2.1 system around this to hook up to the tv.
PS thanks for the quick reply!
Hey Todd - I have a Sonos Beam and two PLAY:1's along with a Sonos Connect:Amp. and Klipsch RPW10. I guess the bass channel is de-activated on the Connect:Amp when I pair it in surround mode. The Klipsch RPW10 has RCA and speaker level input. Should I just buy an IKEA Symonisk to add base? Or two of them to replace the PLAY:1's I have? Thanks for your thoughts in advance.
You could keep the Play:1s, open them to get a wire attached to the woofers to get a signal for the speaker inputs and use your connect amp elsewhere. This technique will work with any Sonos speaker (or any powered speaker for that matter), I just suggest the Symfonisk because they are cheap and easiest to open. Is the connect amp being used now to add the sub to your home theater? If so, can you tell it to act as a sub or is it just a grouped room? If Sonos knows it a proper sub, it will sound better than this hack because the other speakers should get reduced bass for less distortion but it’s a lot of money to just get a signal to your sub
Hi Todd. Great video and work here! I currently have a Beam and am looking to add two Symfonisk and a third party sub. If I wire the two Symfonisk to the sub as a crossover frequency using the output from the sub, adding a switch to the Symfonisk tweeter and then setting them up as surround speakers in the app, what will happen to the quality of sound coming from the Beam if I turn off the Symfonisk tweeters and only allow the bass to come out? Will I be missing some sound components from the Beam?
Hi. If I understand your setup, you’re using the sub speaker in/out to crossover the Symfonisks so they aren’t producing as much bass and letting the sub do the work which is good, that’s the ideal setup. There’s no need to mess with the tweeters though, this should sound balanced as is. If you shit them off, the surrounds will sound pretty muffled but whatever you do to the Symfonisks internally wont change the Beams sound. From Sonos’ perspective, all I knows is whether you’ve added surrounds or the official sub and will adjust from there. In this case Sonos never sees the sub so it routes sounds as if you just have the Beam and surrounds
@@todd.parker I was trying to figure out a way around being still able to control the volume from my tv remote using the 'Gateway' technique by cutting out the tweeters, but I guess that wouldn't work. I am just going to go with the 'Crossover' technique and keep the tweeters in use.
Another question: what is the best way to connect the wires from the Woofer Amp to the inside of the binding posts and then from the other set of the binding posts back to the woofer? Can you use ring connectors on the speaker wire or use disconnects? Thanks Todd!
This is very cool. I wonder if it's possible for Symfonisk(s) to power an outdoor speaker system that has 2x Bose Free Space 51 and 2X Sonance 6.5 inch speakers i.e. use Symfonisk amp in the place of Sonos amp.
As long as the speakers are a 2 way system it should work. The Bose just seems to use a single full range driver? If so, it’s not a good fit
hey, thanks for these ideas, will try it out! I was wondering if instead, I could just use two symfonisk picture frames as left and right front channels, paired to e.g. a bose 900; plus any sub.... because it would greatly enhance the front audio, which seems to make more sense to me for regular tv viewing in stereo...
In this scenario is the Bose a center channel? In short, you can either skim a signal off the woofer and send it to to a powered sub OR disconnect the internal drivers and use them to power a 2 way speaker. You can’t add extra passive speakers because it wall tax the amps too much
@@todd.parker yes, indeed it would be center only :)
and I just found this comment again, I forgot i wrote it and just commented again because by now i got a beam 2 and two symfonisk panels, still have that idea in my head...
@@todd.parker ps so i was hoping for a totally different approach, send an unamplified 5.1 signal to all the amps, split into tweeter and woofer signals etc.. (for the front left and right symfonisks, and another into the beam or any other center speaker...)...
Thanks for this. 🙌🏼
When introducing the pukka SONOS sub does the app perform any magic by changing the output of the other speakers for example : taking away any bass duties and upping the ‘mid range’ from existing speakers?
With this in mind does the SONOS sub sound heaps better than the hacked setup?
No, Sonos doesn't really know what going on so it can't do smart things like remove bass because you have a sub. The official sub sounds great but not heaps better.
I have a Beam and SLs as surrounds. If I were to do a Gateway set up, I would still be adding some bass to my movies, right? I would just have to pair the ‘sub’ to the same room.
Yes, if you used a Symfonisk as a gateway for a sub and grouped it with that room, it would add bass for movies and music.
Hi Tod
What is the link from your movie about mounting the Symfonisk hardware into a powered Subwoofer
I don’t have a video on moving the guts into a sub and I don’t think that makes sense. If you want to use the Symfonisks to bi-amp a passive 2 way speaker, it makes sense and someone posted a blog post on how to do it
I am thinking of try this, my sub does have an input/output. If it added the output and return on the sonos speaker can I join the two together if I needed to remove the sub temporarily? I assume I could.
I want to use the IKEA speakers to act as a Sonos amp for existing in-ceiling speakers in my house. From watching this video, it looks like it may be possible as long as the existing ceiling speakers are two-way, is that correct? Also, would that mean, I would need to run additional wire to in-ceiling speakers to make a circuit, per se, and the existing wiring would be insufficient?
Yes, it will work but you’d need to run 4 conductor wire to the speakers and directly wire them to the woofer and tweeter (bypass the passive crossovers)
@@todd.parker That's great, and I got it playing music. Thanks! Now just need to figure out the in-wall wiring...
Curious - how does this compare to the hacks that require board soldering? Is this direct wiring technique to the tweeter and woofer sonically the same, or is the solder technique better?
@@johnkoehnen3183 The soldering hack is intended to get a full range signal so you can basically use the Symfonisk as a Connect so you can connect your own amp and speakers. If you want to use the built-in electronic crossover and amps to bi-amp your ceiling speakers, this is a better way to go. I have a video that covers the bi-amping in detail.
I just wanted to add a subwoofer. Now I don't know what I want anymore.
Lots of options. You can start simple and go from there
I had an thought. Can you just remove all in the Interals of the speaker. The signal, power etc and put them in a small home made box. And plug it in the wall and the sub Into it.
Todd
Do you have any hacks that would allow me to convert the Symfonisk to bluetooth? I want to use the Symfonisk with m y TV and with my laptop. I purchased a small bluetooth amplifier. How would I connect it? Is there a way to use the internal amp and add bluetooth to the Symfonisk?
No, sorry. Look at the Roam - it is cheap, has Bluetooth and can pump that signal into your other Sonos speakers.
@@todd.parker Ill look into that. But, I have the Symfonisk from Ikea. Is there a way to connect that to the Roam?
I have 1x Sonos one and 1x symfonisk. Now io open the symfonisk and wire my 3rd party sub. My problem I can’t Create a 2.1 with 1xone and 1x symfonisk( sonos says : I need two symfonisk or two one) . But I can play all together in one group. Is that okay ? Or ist Stereopair + sub much better ? It is living room and dining room together but it is one big room it is not seperate (it is a open house) thx
I also not sure about my sub.
I want to make level 3 (high level in and out back to symfonisk, but my canton movie 60 sub just have high level input and mono L / R (is this Output, no ?!?)
It looks like level input ist - - and mono L/R is + + ???
And Can I still use my RCA cable for my Sony receiver which I USE for my TV sound.
When there’s a Sonos sub, reviewers mentioned that the bar focuses less on bass...Do you know if there’s a way to force/enable this using the hack? TIA
Sorry, I think that only happens if you add a sub to the home theater “room” but with this hack, it never knows a sub is in play
Does it work if I just hook up the sub cable to the sub port on the sonos amp? Or do I need the speaker/RCA cables as well? I want to hook up the bose acoustimass to the sonos amp and it only has the sub port.
Hi. Im planning to use two old speakers ( bit like tonsil altus ) and old amplifier but I want to rebuild all speaker and just put in a symfonisk into them and receive mono signal before Amp. To provide that signal to old amp. I know it's gonna add additional dual wire each speaker. I just have few questions did symfos getting hot on running? I saw those power management and I'm quite scared of those low end capacitors. I'm thinking to making symfonisk sliding to the holes in the speaker and worried also about damaging sound quality because all around them gonna be thick wood wall.
They don’t get very hot so I don’t think heat is a problem. The wood might block the Wi-Fi a bit but in don’t think it’s a problem. Are you planning on using the symfonisk to bi-amp these because they look like a 3 way speaker so I don’t think that will work
@@todd.parker i just want to take output signal before built-in symfsonik amp and provide that signal to Techniks old bulky amp and send it back to the speaker. That's gonna double wiring between speakers and Tehniks amp. But I'm gonna be able play my Dolby atmos from my tv with sonos sound bar beam2. On the same time from my speakers and also synfonik. And not need to waste money for sonos sub or sonos. port.
Todd.
For home stereo setup: Can you wire it up in the simplest set up just left or right in the case you dont have a way to hide wires.
What would be the issue
Yeah, I don't think you gain much by adding the second channel. If you listen to certain kinds of music, there might be bass directed at only one channel but I have a hunch that's rare.
@@todd.parker Awesome, Do you have to use a line out converter. Could you avoide it by using and LFE to Banana Cable/RCA to Banana Cable. Im looking at pairing an SVS sub as they are running a good deal on PB2000 right now
Jonathan Newman you definitely don’t want to plug an amplified signal into the line level input as it might damage that. The converters are cheap and work pretty well
@@todd.parker Ok thanks for the input you and your videos have been a lot of help
Hi Todd thanks for your great video. I have a question. Im running now a full sonos 5.0 thats a playbar and 2x play 1. I want to add just a sub. Do i have to tear down one of my play 1 or can i use a symfonisk speaker just for adding the sub. Thanks
If you don’t want to open your play 1’s, you can use the sub gateway option in this video where you set the symfonisk up as a room and group it to your home theater room
@@todd.parker Thank u very much. For now i will do it like this.
@@rsnatersen5643 With that setup, can you control the volume of the sub with your tv remote?
@@spienkow with the sonos app u can change the volume of the sub seperate. and with volume of your tv u can change the hole groupe volume all at once
@@spienkow its very easy hack and the sound of a sub it is just amazing with the sonos speakers. i did the hack like 2 months ago
Hi Todd, can I connect sonos the same way but with wireless..sub? Thanks
Yep, but realize that will add a bit of delay.
Is there any way you could mount all of the wires and the circuit board inside a sub just to get the bass? Want to make a tidy-looking sub and have no need for more high level sounds, just the sub.
Sure! You could even just remove the front panel and maybe one side wall and mount that into the sub although you’d need a way to get the speaker wires soldered to the input terminals from the inside
Todd Parker As a very non experienced person, could you explain to me: as I’m connecting the wires directly to the sub, does that mean I get a “gateway solution”? Also, do I need the wires from the non bass part thingy connected at all or could those be removed completely?
TheResistance2fan1 If this is your first time, there are a few things that might be pretty tricky to do such as making the front panel buttons accessible through the sub cabinet and tapping into the plate amp of the sub to route the signal wiring. Hard to explain in a comment, unfortunately
can I do the same with play one, super video
Sure, this will work with any Sonos speaker, just a matter of how hard each is to open!
@@todd.parker thank you , so much , can I use play 3 this days with old app
Yep, you can use the play3 with the older app
Awesome videos.. Q. Would it be possible to run cable from the tweeter amp to a Distributed Mode Speaker (Foam Board) with a Dayton audio exciter..?
I don’t see why not. It’s crossed over around 2k so is that lacking in some mids and low end?
@@todd.parker Thanks for the reply, hacking a Symfonisk just seems like a great way to test out DM speakers that have been featured on UA-cam to see if they are as good as some people say..!
@@sacundai5371 it definitely it but just keep in mind there is an electronic crossover so you can’t get a full range signal out of these, only highs or lows
@@todd.parker I was thinking about.. Using my Beam + Symfonisk Cheap Sub (Input+Output) + Symfonisk Tweeter hack to Foam Board Speaker? Do you think this would this seem plausible?
@@sacundai5371 Maybe not. Are you planning on still using the internal Symfonisk woofer? If not, you’ll have a huge hole in the frequencies. The sub works below 100hz or so. The tweeter goes from 2,000hz and up. If you don’t have a midbass/woofer, you’re missing all the sound form 100-2,000hz.
Sorry I'm slightly confused. I'm running a sonos playbar, it is connected to the TV through optical, then sends wireless to 2 sonos 1. Do I need to open the playbar up and wire from the sub speakers or are the ikea symfonisk connected wirelessly through WiFi and I just wire from that to my active sub?
You need to get a signal to feed into your powered sub. You can either jump off a woofer in the playbar or 1’s to feed in, or use a symfonisk grouped to your home theater room as a gateway. All the scenarios are covered in detail in this video
Thanks for the video! I've connected a REL Qauke to a Symfonik as a portal. When I disconnect the woofer of the Symfonisk the REL gives a hum. When connected it doesn't. Do you have any idea how to fix this?
Hmm. That's interesting. Does it sound like a 60hz AC sort of hum or something different? I wonder if there is some electrical noise and somehow the internal woofer is keeping to shield that? If it's distracting, maybe you could keep the symfonisk woofer connected but attenuate it's output nearly to zero by using some beefy resistors or potentiometer? Just a guess. Maybe try plugging the Symfonisk and/or sub into different outlets.
@@todd.parker Yes I think it sounds like a 60hz AC hum (based on a youtube example video). I'm going to try some different outlets first. I'm not a hero with resistors or potentiometers...
Try adding a ground loop isolator into your setup. If you are using the RCA input into your sub then you could try something like this www.amazon.co.uk/Ground-isolator-audio-noise-removal/dp/B000KHBU1G. If using the speaker level inputs, then try moving your cables further away from any mains cables
Great man 💪🏻
@todd.parker I have two Play:5 Gen.1 - which Sonos now is saying has too little memory to stream Spotify without pausing music intermittently. Do you think It would make sense to use a Symfonisk and hook that up to the Play 5 and stream the music from the Symfonisk to the speaker part of the Play 5?
It would be worth trying for sure. You could stream to the symfonisk and group that with your 5’s
@@todd.parker do you by any chance know where to connect the wires from the symfonisk, on the Play5?(there are more speaker units in the play5)
@@lovejoyone The simple answer is to connect the wires from the Sonos speaker's woofer and run it to your sub. The older Play 5 is a 3 way system so you'd want to connect to the central sub since that would have the lowest frequencies. This should help: www.ifixit.com/Guide/Sonos+Play+5+Subwoofer+Replacement/86634
@@todd.parker Sorry - maybe I am not asking correctly. Basically - my Play5 gen 1 is kind of bricked to me - as it can no longer stream from spotify( but fine stream radio and other streamimg services) without pausing often. Sonos support has investigated - and informa me that it is because of too little memory in the gen 1. My quest is - how can i get the Play5 up running again - by using a symfonisk to do the streaming part( that one has lots of memory) and the Play 5 to play that streamed music from the Play 5 3-way speakers( not only the bass) hope this makes better sense
Sorry too many comment threads here. There is no way to directly connect those. You could try to stream to a more modern speaker like a Symfonisk, then *group* that with your Play:5 to see if that helps. I'm not sure it will but it's worth a try. I you have other, newer Sonos speakers on hand, you can try it before committing to a purchase
If you where to use the method to cross over and had only rca connections on the the sub would you need to use 2 in line converters (one for input and one for output)
If you only have RCA connections then you can’t use the sub to crossover the speakers. The converters only concert down to a signal, not up to a powered signal (amplifier) so I’d either get a sub with speaker inputs or use the simple setup
Isn’t the audio within the LFE filtered out by the DSP and as such the Sonos surround synphinisk or play etc doesn’t actually receive the LFE audio anyway. Yes the low frequencies are transferred to the sub in this set up but LFE isn’t there so cannot be tapped into for the sub
If image that if you had an official sub connected that it might filter out some bass but in my tests there was a ton of low end information sent to the surrounds which really supreme. It’s not the same as a dedicated LFE channel obviously but more than enough to add a lot of bass to the mix
Hey Todd, another question, do you know if anyone has hacked into the Beam to add more front speakers for home theater?thx
Not that I’m aware of, nope
the easiest way to connect a subwoofer to a SONOS or IKEA system is with a SONOS CONECT, so easy, you can move a subwoofer any distance without wiring throughout the room
We’ll, sure but only gen 2 are S2 compatible (be careful buying on eBay) and the Port is $450. That’s a lot of money for a signal!
Hi Tod, I have an ALR Nummer 2 but their power is 150 watts what components do I need for their work Crossover with a filter I have already taken out of them
Hi. You just need to wire the tweeter and woofer amps to the tweeter and woofers in your speakers, run trueplay and you’re done
@@todd.parker and where to get amplifiers of such power, after all, probably IKEA Symfonisk will not give such power, after all
@@axab2004 I think the Symfonisk amps will be able to drive these fairly well since they are 90db efficiency. I wouldn't bother trying to add in other amps, that sort of ruins the purpose fo bi-amping this way.
Best thing to do it hook them up and see how it sounds!
I don't understand, why not use the output from the Sonos Amp for power a Sel amplifier sub and drive passive speakers for a simple and integrated setup with out having to buy speakers and do all that
Well, the Sonos amp is $700 which is very pricy for a 2 channel amp. With this, you can buy a pair of Symfonisk and add a cheap $100-200 sub for a nice 2.1 system. Or use them as surrounds in a a home theater and hook up a cheap sub. Or skip the internal drivers and bi-amp a pair of passive 2 way speakers. Different use cases, both have a place
Will this work with the new Sonos Arc?
Thank you in advance.
Yes indeed. The trick is figuring out how to get inside your fancy new toy to access a woofer
I would also like to know this. Price of soundbar isn't too crazy,but the price takes a big jump with the official Sub.
hi Tod what "Cheap Sub-woofers" do you recommend?
I have a few linked in the description
I was given a Gen2 sonos subwoofer only. How can I pair/wire it to my Samsung sound bar or Samsung smart tv?
You really can’t unfortunately. A sub can only be added to another Sonos speaker and there is no way to get a signal into it. If you want to sell it cheap, I’ll buy it from ya and you can buy a regular powered sub :)
How to know what conector in the symfonisk cabinet is + or -?
You’ll see that marked on the speaker terminals.