In defense of LE SSERAFIM
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- Опубліковано 18 кві 2024
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I’m glad you talked abt it , some netizens use “constructive criticism” disguised as hate and that’s messed up.
And many people actually have “constructive criticism” and sincerely want Lesserafim to improve to not get hate from both the International and Domestic market
But y’all just label it all as hate
@@Castformsupremacy most of the response is hate disguised as criticism not the other way around, let’s be serious for a second.
I’ll just say this - their situation would not be as shocking to Kpop stans if it weren’t for the industry essentially setting everyone up.
Let me explain - Kpop stans have gotten so used to prerecorded, overly processed vocals. Or, “live singing” that is heavily edited. Take all of these “it’s live” format type shows for example, there are people who genuinely think those are raw live vocals. No singer is going to sound that perfect to the point it’s almost metallic, with no pitch errors. Mistakes happen as a singer.
Do I think Le Sserafim should get vocal training? Of course I do. I think all idols could benefit from real vocal training. My only point is that Kpop stans have very unrealistic expectations. Vocals are just not a focus in Kpop anymore, this is the sad reality. Kpop stans will take the most obviously prerecorded vocals and brag about how “the mic is on”. If I were being more dramatic I’d say it’s scary, but I won’t go that far, because I suppose it’s not the fans fault.
As a former vocalist myself, it makes me sad to see people pointing out certain parts of the Coachella performance as “awful” when really they’re just breathless. Chaewon sounded great, and actually Yunjin was solid during most of her parts as well. I don’t think anybody is claiming their vocals were amazing or that they’re Mariah Carey. But it was genuinely NOT as awful as people are making it out to be, in fact, it wasn’t bad at all. The crowd was hyped, their stage presence was everything, and everyone there has talked about how it was a good time. Kazuha’s mic was so low during the stream but I heard people in the crowd say they could hear her clearly.
I’m not “defending” any poor live vocals moments. I’m not saying it was a perfect, 10/10 performance because I am not delusional. However, it was a Performance, 100%. They delivered in that area.
People are so tough on female idols and constantly switching up on them. As a Stay I am used to extremely horrific hate trains, and as a Fearnot I’m just getting really tired of the amount of non fans who are so undeniably obsessed with the girls. Personally, I’m not gonna tune into a performance of a group I don’t like or just don’t care about, because that makes no sense. I have a job and I’m in college, I have things to do, I don’t have time to be making threads or writing comments that spread hate for a group I don’t stan. Some of you cannot say the same.
thank you for being both rational and level headed! i agree with you.
i think a lot of people are so caught up in themselves that they’ve lost that ability through this. i can foresee this becoming something much uglier if people don’t realize the patterns of behavior in which they are falling into, because i sincerely doubt that seeing them improve is at the forefront right now
im so glad that someone here actually has a well thought out opinion. simply saying that they all were terrible vocally, doesn’t make any sense. at first i was really confused because even i do vocal training, and at least yunjin and chaewon did well. i agree that all of them should focus on improving their vocals, but people just decided to go incredibly hard on them because of their encore performances. overall their performance (including dance, rap and vocals) was pretty solid. could’ve done better but the fans and anti-fans escalated what could’ve been a backed critique, to a hate train.
Agreed, my critique of them only centered around how they NEED more training in terms of stamina and breath support but overall I think they did great. However if you see the responses on my comment to a short that was made before their performance, you’d swear I really was “hating” on them when all I said is they need to work on vocals equally as much as they work on choreography.
hmmm, thanks for your perspective. it actually brought an important perspective since like you said, we really are SO accustomed to heavily edited vocals that a slight mistake is highlighted. but in this case, they did make noticeable mistakes enough to make people focus on it instead of the whole performance (dancing, stage presence etc). at least on the stream since i wasnt there personally.
but your perspective made me realize its important to humanize them and look at it from a different viewpoint. so thank you!
I agree. I noticed that the girls sounded way better with handheld mics than the usual mics the wear. Have a look at 1-800 Hot and Fun and Antifragile.
i saw someone post the clip of yunjin saying "coachella! are you ready to shake some fcking ass?" and all the comments under it were just talking about how she doesn't have an ass to shake?? like man at that point its just bullying. also shes telling he audience to, not declaring that she will, so their point is irrelevant anyway
Well obviously that’s where her vocal chords are…
@@vivid_blossomsWell her so called vocals do sound like farting sounds.
@@vixxexo6855 I’m not sure how and why that was necessary.
😂😂😂😂😂😂they are true
😂😂😂🎉🎉🎉
the thing that is bothering the most is that its going beyond wanting to give serious criticism about the group and hybe. its literally ppl dogpilling them for every single thing they do. hating on chaewon bc she posted a doja cat performance where doja put on a middle finger, bashing sakura's letter on weverse, sending death threats to the girls, harrassing eunchae (a minor) with vile and hateful comments on her instagram, even the girls family members are getting hate like sakura's brother and yunjin's sister.
I didn’t know about their family getting threats that’s insane… it’s so hard to contain criticism as constructive in the kpop community, especially online. It’s so easy for people to pick it up to be hateful
At this point, it has gotten way over constructive criticism, it’s straight up harassment and bullying. Even on Twitter (or X) I saw a post saying that Sakura should be r*ped and k*lled… like it has gotten to the point where they are receiving d*ath threats and all just because they hit a few sour notes? Like yes LSFM does need to improve their vocals, but they had some good moments in Coachella why are you so focused on the bad ones? And HYBE/SoMu is partly to blame, because why are you allowing all of these things to be said about your artists? Shows they can’t even depend on the company to do the bare minimum and protect them when needed like now.
Yeah it’s frustrating… the way the kpop community operates makes it hard for anyone to give genuine criticism and not be seen as hateful
@@choujimi And it’s sad because these idols expect for these companies to atleast back them up when there is a situation like this. They value money over peoples lives, mental health, and overall well being.
The nasty comments people write aren't acceptable, but most people aren't actually sending such messages. Fans like to generalize when it comes to criticism toward their faves and make it seem like everything is hate, but that is not true. The actions of a few people don't represent the sentiment of the criticism. These girls need to learn how to sing properly asap.
@@milli3377 I didn’t mean to generalize, maybe I should have said antis or haters, but still doesn’t change the fact the girls are still getting hate and are being bullied because of hit wrong notes.
@@milli3377 Okay and that still don’t change the fact that now those comments have caused Eunchae to cry all night during week 1 and SoMu ready to sue people for makin continuous hate comments and just being downright racist, disgusting, towards the members..
i have to agree!
this whole discussion surrounding them has turned into one of hate instead of genuine well wishes, but now that hybe’s bubble has been bursted, we’ll actually see changes be put into place - and through that all i can hope is that the girls are okay because they’re being made into a lot of things they never asked for
"Hype's bubble" no idea needs company to improve if they want to.
more like members' bubble outside of fandom's praise has been getting weak lately now we're about to see if they do something about it.
@@AB-yk2pq it does kind of go back to the company no matter how you try to slice and dice it because if it seems as if your company is happy with your performance and claim that you’re performing well; i would imagine it’s a natural response to take their word for it. especially when they were the ones responsible for training these girls and preparing them to debut to begin with. natural talent isn’t enough and it’s hybe’s responsibility to nurture that instead of doing whatever they’re doing now. yes, the girls can reflect and see where they too need improvements but those improvements are not completely self reliant when you have an employer who is directly responsible for seeing those improvements materialize
@@arimes31If the company which doesn't care about how well I sound or how healthy my vocal habits are I wouldn't exactly take their words as holy.
If Le Sserafim were under companies that take vocals more seriously, then sure but under HYBE that have been having such issues for years vocally than it's time to work on yourself without their approvals.
Well wishes are not working. They are taking vocals for granted times and again. They do not care (both company and the members, except chaewon I guess)
Both lsf and I've were given well wishes and constructive criticism for vocals and look at ive..and now look at lsf.
It's high time we leave constructive criticism out the door and take the route of negative criticism.
@@AB-yk2pq while i agree, i just can’t get myself to fully co-sign on that because it can’t be as simple as we believe it to be, because if it were im sure plenty of hybe idols would’ve gone to get vocal training outside of the company
Loool that intro is so dramatic I love it
After the issue with Illit's encore and Lesserafim's Coachella performance, I'm more disappointed with Hybe more than ever. As an old Kpop fan, I knew how Bighit started out as vocal based company mostly releasing ballads and mid tempo songs ( 2am and Homme ). Meaning they have the capability to train and create vocally skilled idols. I just wonder why they chose to forgo the old training system now that they have more resources and connections.
Yeah… I wonder if it may be just a problem with the current vocal training instructors at some of HYBE’s labels, or if there isn’t much emphasis placed on vocal training at all anymore and they only “train” when recording in the studio
I think a mistake that many people make is making big it synonymous with hype. You have to also remember that big hit is still a private company with only 2 boy groups. Source music is Le Sserafim’s company not big hit. And people need to realize that HYBE operates more like a parent company and therefore is pretty diverse vocally. The have good, average, and below average singers. For the most part they have excellent and good dancers. So far Big Hit has released 2 solid boy groups.
@@blueside9147 I know that each label under Hybe has their own set of management. I also know that only BTS and TXT are in Bighit. That's not what I mean I will be specific.
Bang PD is the founder of Bighit and also the reason it became a vocal based company back. Meaning he himself is capable to produce or even create a vocally skilled idol from scratch.
Fast forward to present day, we now have a Hybe. A conglomerate. Though as you said each, each label they acquired or built operates independently, he is still very much involved in one way or another. Isn't he is credited in the production. Remember at some point all the groups released retro songs? It's because he still have his hands involved in the decision making.
And afterall, this labels still carried his name. And his name is now synonymous with Hybe. He could just also asked or make sure the management of those labels to have one style kind of training similar to what he have in Bighit.
@@choujimi It's just so frustrating because I know Chaewon and Yunjin have what it takes to be great vocalists and other members to be decent performers. If only they were nourished right. But yeah, let's see what action will Hybe/SouMu take after all this issues.
tho just because bighit produced vocally skilled idols early on doesn’t mean they were necessarily the ones who trained them in that. 3/4 of the 2am members were from jyp after all. for the few artists bighit had before that (lee hyun, k.will for a while), i suspect it was more like bang pd training them himself. so i wonder if bighit ever really hired any vocal trainers……like ever.
im glad someone is talking about this. kpop stans love disguising hate as constructive criticism. and the fact that people are attacking eunchae, the maknae, is just sad.
i just know that if LSF ever needs a lawyer they will call you
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Doing alive show for real without lip-syncing and without auto-tuning their voices should get respect, if this industry were honest.
Most people: sleeping
Swifties: freaking out over the double album
Choujimi: glued to the editing desk and pumping out the content
Imagine if a Kpop group released a 30 track album. 16 already feels impossibly high 😔
@@bopete3204As far as I remember, Chungha is probably the first artist in KPOP that I know that has a lot of album tracks (her first studio album “Querencia” has like 21 tracks!)
@@bopete3204well her album was horrible, so maybe it’s good that Kpop isn’t doing that 😭 but also, Kpop groups agency comebacks wayyy more often that western artists, which is why they have shorter albums
@@bopete3204 i mean itzys mini album was 10 songs long
@@cosas_de_gatosthe TTPD and TTPD complete were not bad albums 😭
I genuinely feel like HYBE put them in that situation and sabotage them. If you know your group main criticism is there vocals why would you put them in a festival where that would be highlighted it’s just common sense but no HYBE has to fulfill their own inflated ego and put them in a doomed situation
YES!!!! they are the issue here nobody else they knew damn well these girls weren't the best singers but because HYBE fans and HYBE are so delusional they put them on stage especially after the encore situation
Yes exactly!!
I agree. I think it very sad how much people try to disguise hate as “critic”. Most of the valid critic was discussed after the encore stages and the first few days after the Coachella performance. Most of the discussion now is just repeating what has already been said or people just saying hateful things while trying to act as if it’s out of concern. I honestly feel so bad for Fearnots and illit fans because the amount of backlash these girls are getting is ridiculous. And the worst part is going forward people are going to constantly over analyze these group’s performances to find anything they can complain about. Even when there may truly be nothing to complain about.
With this whole fiasco going on, it gives me so much respect for Fearnots. And secondly I’m seeing some sneaky parelles to ITZYs Sneakers, vocal weakness, a musical switch, the entire kpop community hating on both groups. I can’t help but feel that LE SSERAFIM might be going down a very dangerous road. This sets an even more dangerous precedent for fans that if one group makes one song that isn’t well received, one mistake one minor error you can cancel a group. And that, that is terrifying
Tbh I think a lot of the ire directed at LSF is actually anger that people have at HYBE. HYBE has been doing lots of things that anger fans, but it's impossible to take that out on HYBE directly because the idols are the only point of connection fans have with HYBE.
I also think international fans feel a bit betrayed, or like they've been scammed? LSF seems to be aimed at the West somewhat, their marketing tried to create this image of LSF fighting for social progress in the idol industry. But that's just a facade, there is nothing LSF does that pushes boundaries. So it also seems inauthentic, which causes anger.
international fans from whom? Bc fearnost are enjoying everything lsrf has been doing lately, the only people that are feeling disappointment or "betrayal" are the losers on the internet who don't even stan lsrf. Like u for example...
@@bloomyheartt_I don't think you understand what they are saying they are not blaming le sserafim for the issue they are blaming HYBE, Hybe is the one who sold le sserafim as an all rounder group with seasoned idols putting immense pressure and a standard on the girls they simply can't reach right now vocal wise
@@bloomyheartt_ This isn't only aimed at fearnots or le sserafim god is it's like y'all have the brain of dogs and pick and choose what you want to see they are talking about HYBE as whole le sserafim just happens to be the example
@@user-dw2gu9ep5c I understand blaming hybe, I also blame Hybe and Source Music for a lot of things regarding lsrf. But it doesn't make sense in this discussion bc Coachella was the one that invited the girls. They were INVITED. So then y'all should blame Coachella for inviting a group that YOU don't think is ready. If the festival invites them, and the people who went enjoyed the performance. The only ones complaining then are the losers on the internet who don't stan lsrf. It's that simple.....
@@bloomyheartt_ is it Coachella's job to train them . ..yes or no
the le sserafim hate feels so forced bc there are so many other groups that stuggle vocally and they either are ignored or get praise.. maybe its just me and i cant even lie their performance was good 😭
THIS. This right here. I could name so many lol 😭
TRUE
My one biggest worry is how much protection eunchae is receiving from all of this? (Not that all the otherr members dont deserve some too) As a minor she had the least power to consent to any off this before starting her career. What lesson is she supposed to learn? Is she to change or to persevere as she is? These are things that we have the privilege of learning as we grow up from friends and family in private, but she (i also want to include kazuha and illit) has to think abt whats best for her agency, staff and the impact her choices will make on the inndustry before her own self. I hope we can all rethink the involvement of minors and children in thentertainmentnt industry because of these events.
Protection for Eunchae? With the things her company is making her doing, she needs more protection for her company than the actual fans
ENTERING THE JISOO QUOTE BCUZ I'M F*CK*NG DONE WITH THIS SH*T: *NOT BAD BUT NOT GOOD*
Now if you excuse me, i'm going to listen to Jinjin duet with Moonbin and Taylor's new album
Good luck to both those projects
What irritates me was it wasnt even a bad performance
I feel like K-pop fans now have a higher expectations of what a overseas performance should look like and unfortunately le sserafim didn’t mange to fulfill it. Does it mean the performance was horrible? No, it just didn’t fulfill expectations
@@Ten.ofcupsI believe it has to do with the representation of Kpop (and in a way, Korea) in the US, like choujimi said. Kpop isn’t as individualistic as the US and it’s especially new and somewhat niche to the American populous, So when they do these big stunts in the west, there’s a lot of added pressure to do good, or you’ll apparently make everyone else look bad. Even I sweat over this, I just want them to make a good impression.
Go watch Blackpink performance 😅😅😅
I completely agree with you, and truly I also wouldn't wish being a fearnot on my worst enemy. You're one of the only youtubers on here speaking actually sensibly about this, especially coachella itself (the other being angelina imo). Festivals are supposed to be fun and they brought the fun. I wont say they had the greatest vocals ever but I'm much happier with them doing this completely live. In the moment it felt so fresh to see raw and unpolished kpop on a big festival stage. I adored it. Idk. Different strokes for different folks is all i can come down to because from my festival and concert going days, this is exactly what I expect from a festival performance (aka quality isn't the highest priority) and they are hardly the vocally worst group I've ever seen perform at one of these US festivals.
The wow crossover is killing me here, I love it 😆
Seriously tho, haters need to pull the sticks from their rear ends. These groups put so much work into their craft to make it to where they are. Sure not everyone is gifted enough to be perfect every performance, but they don't deserve the hate we've been seeing.
Also the toxic stans need to learn that just because people like and enjoy a new group, it doesn't mean they no longer like your favorite group. Stop being an insecure fan.
I'll happily cheer for any kpop group playing a big show in the west, we all want to see them succeed!
Honestly, the vocals were better than the older ones and you could totally see the improvements of many members, especially Sakura, who is already doing so much better! I don't see why people think the performance was "horrendous" because I actually had a lot of fun listening to it.
They totally do have room for improvement, as I did notice that all the members had somewhat of an airy voice from beginning to end, especially Yunjin, and Eunchae struggling to breathe well, forcing her to deepen her voice, but they definetly have improved and I see it improving long-term.
I'm rooting for my 'Fimmie girlies and believe in each and one of them!
Edit: Yes I'm aware that the girls were tired around the end, I just mean in general it seems like their breathing techniques aren't as advanced as some, and it could always benefit them to take some vocals lessons. I think they're great singers though.
Bighit did send txt to the VMAs and both them and NewJeans to Lolla last year and a lot of people loved those performances. I hope Hybe overall doesn't stop because of one poorly received one because i would love to see Enhypen on a larger stage over here outside of their tours.
Wait I would love a video about how k-pop isn't actually popular in Korea I never new about that!
It is. Kpop used to be popular during 2nd and 3rd gen tho. But knetz start to get tired of "idol music" in 4th gen and forward.
I'll be honest, I sort of disagreed with you're first video and I did have criticisms for lsf (although it was more directed towards the company), but my god the hatred I've seen over coachella is actually insane. You're right its no longer valid criticism its almost pure hate. I don't stan/follow lsf but I've noticed that they are solid performers.
For coachella, were they not great vocally in some parts? Yeah but there were also times where it sounded good (mostly on pitch, okay breath control). Clips from both good and bad were treated the same which shows me kpop stans know even less about vocals than I thought. They really know nothing about raw live vocals, kpop stans can't even tell when people are singing live or how raw vocals sound. It pisses me off that they're using "vocal critiques" as a cover up for them wanting to be nasty to a group they don't like.
Honestly, only Chaewon and Yunjin can sing in that group, the others need vocal training asap. But is that an excuse to hate? Absolutely not! Also comparing them to Ateez who just so happens to be the best performers in the industry (yes) not to mention they have Jongho so like 😭😭
Edit: also i would to hear you talk about Ateez's perfomance at Coachella since they blew me away
Not to mention few more years of experience 😅
The intro is so dramatic lmao
Tbh, I don't think this is the group's fault... more Hybe's? Source's? Idk who exactly but whoever is in charge of their promotions. I think the ladies are definitely deserving of a Coachella stage but I'm not so sure that this was the right time for it? I wish they could have cut their teeth on lotsa tours first to be more comfortable with performing on large stages... or be more comfortable wielding their strengths and hiding their weaknesses on stage.... Iygwim? Getting to know your own personal limits is always good for performing (I don't mean having limits to be a bad thing, every singer/artist has limits bc, uh, human). I just think the members could have benefitted from practice among people that love them the most (fearnots) so that they could improve with abandon... and THEN be on the world stage. Am I making sense? Anyway, I agree with you that things are getting ugly. I genuinely want to see them succeed and it makes me sad that they're getting this much backlash... Feedback is always good but this... It's kind of getting out of hand. I really hope you're right and that Hybe would give their groups better guidance and support after this... Sigh.
Honestly I hope this is a wakeup call to all the bigger kpop companies (including SM, 'cause not only do they make their more than capable idols lipsync on music shows, but those revent SM concerts for sure ain't live). Like you said, the bubble has burst, and the lowly simmering dissatisfaction of kpop fans has broken the threshold into the domestic consciousness - now all we can hope for is that things change. We will see.
LeSserafim though, I really hope they can weather this, both career-wise and mentally. It's rough. Realistically though, I don't expect kpop stans to wisen up and stop dogpiling people. The reality is that LS and Hybe just have to wait for the cycle to move on and churn out another controversy to become the new target of the outrage machine online.
And here we go, we now have one of the biggest controversies in kpop history 😀
My biggest fear, as someone who genuinely enjoys their music, is that this whole "issue" will send them on hiatus for a year. 1 year is a long time and alot of opportunities for releases missed considering there's no guarantee we'll get more Le Sserafim after their 7 years are up. Source do not seem committed long term at all.
I hope Hybe doesn’t fix it by just debuting a good vocal group. (Although I'd like it)
What I'm trying to say is hope they don't go the JYP route and just debut a great vocal group (Nmixx) instead of just giving their artist GOOD vocal classes (not whatever vocal classes most of these companies give). A lot of these idols have potential, yes even Sakura and Eunchae, they just need classes. I don't expect them to be amazing vocalists, but they need the basics.
Hybe this is your change, y'all have the money use it.
JYP at least has some type of vocal training, especially in regards to stamina. Their artists can sing live while dancing (yes, even Twice, although they don’t do that in their music show performances anymore, but watch their concerts and you’ll see what I mean). However, their artists definitely could use some more technique based vocal lessons. I’m glad that some of the SKZ members are going to SM’s vocal trainer. Even the more underdeveloped vocalists in SKZ have a lot of potential and so they are a very vocally solid group contray to popular belief - you just have to dig deeper than their title tracks.
Again, I’m talking about being able to sing stably while dancing, I’m not defending JYP’s vocal training in full. Just saying that their artists have the basics. ITZY was the first one to do a stage practice after all, NMIXX just happens to be known for it since they are such amazing technical vocalists (NMIXX are my ults).
The most under developed vocalist in jyp can easily outsing the main vocalist of all the new hybe groups. Jyp has what it needs. Especially with skz, itzy and nmixx. They lishten to fans. They were criticised for not giving creative freedom to got7, they have skz. They were criticised for vocals, they have nmixx and even itzy and skz are good in terms of vocal health and holding a note. Let's not compare these 2 situations
@@hola_terry I hope you understand I'm not hating on JYP artists. I Stan a lot of their artists. Sorry if I explained myself wrong.
That being said I was just saying that I hope Hybe ears the criticism and learns, not by giving us a new group that fits what we want but by training the idols they already have.
To use your example of Got7 (which I know basically nothing about so sorry If I say something wrong). Instead of earing the criticism of not having enough freedom and making a new group that had the freedom fans asked for, just directly giving Got7 creative freedom.
That's all I meant to say when I referenced JYP.
@@lluuii fine.
I don't blame the girls Hybe and source on the other hand is at fault for this these girls weren't ready to Debut they literally also ruined yunjins. Vocals because she could sing on produce 48
Ok, agree people shouldn’t be so hard and cruel. But qua vocals they do suck big time. High time to take some lessons. Period.
Most of the hate is from people who actually didn’t even watch it bc they’ve improved from their other instances…
but I 100% agree with u
I had a friend go off on a long tangent to me and my other friend about le sserafim and their cochella performance and why it sucked and I felt so uncomfortable the entire time because 1, Kpop Stan’s honestly don’t know anything about singing and 2, I don’t understand why it matters so much. If you don’t Stan them why go through so much effort to bash them?? There’s so much behind the scenes stuff we don’t know about too like it feels so pointless. And don’t get me wrong I want to see them improve but like jeez. Like if you didn’t like the performance don’t watch it??? Like no one’s forcing you to?
Honestly as a Fearnot I've long gone numb to this discourse.
But on the subject of Kpop idols representing Korea, I have quite a lot of thoughts as a Chinese-Canadian. I see a lot of parallels to how members of minority groups must be representatives of a larger whole rather than their own individuals. And also, I feel like the way Kpop has tapped into pan-East (and parts of Southeast) Asian culture means Koreans have given up the right to have total control over it.
Something I feel very strongly about is that the way diaspora Asians from different countries of origin all get along, and I've always seen Kpop as Korea dipping its toes into more positive engagement with neighbouring countries. I think it's awful whenever issues surrounding nationalism flare up around Kpop because I do think it threatens something beautiful about Kpop. Kpop is Korean but in my view it's always represented the cosmopolitan side of Korea. I think a significant amount of support of Kpop from the non-Korean Asian diaspora is rooted in identification with pan-Asianism and Koreans can't take that back.
So I really do not like the idea that the Korean public should be dictating what image Kpop idols are allowed to have because it represents Korea and Korea alone. Firstly, because Kpop has long represented more than just Koreans in Korea it's not just their conversation to have, and secondly because we need to be able to move past the idea that minority groups are monoliths. It's a lot of unfair pressure to put on every member of a minority group. People need to be seen as individuals. And so analagously, Kpop groups should primarily represent themselves and be seen as just one aspect of the broader Kpop sphere.
And finally, I think Le Sserafim made a really solid impression to Coachella attendees. The reviews from western media have been positive. I feel like people are worried about reputational harm that just does not exist. They're seeing ghosts.
All of this is just turning into hate at this point, it's not the girls' fault. I blame hybe and Source Music for not giving them the proper vocal training that they need! They just want to find an excuse to hate and mask it as criticism I remember when aespa performed at Coachella too during their lipsyncing controversy and even when they sang live people still complained that they sounded too shaky. Of course they would they were singing three songs with difficult choreography so of course they were going to sound shaky. Kpop stans will never be satisfied with anything! Sorry for the long comment.
Sylvanas Windrunner Shadowlands as an intro chills literal chills
Haha 😭
I think le sserafims next comeback will show us the stability of Hybes strategy for their girl groups. From what I can tell Le Sserafim, Newjeans, and now ILLIT all have a pretty small amount of "stans" relative to their actual popularity and in return have lots and lots of casual listeners. Personally, I think this strategy will work well following a massive controversy like this as the reality is that most of Le Sserafims listeners probably don't even know this is happening.
As an aside I just want to talk about how silly the idea is that a single group or single company can "ruin" kpops image internationally let alone one performance (that actually has good ratings internationally). The toxicity among kpop fans and knets has already done far far far more damage to kpops image than they every could. Le Sserafims performance would have never made the news if it wasnt for the massive hate train that followed, Karinas dating scandal wouldve never made international news if it wasnt for the hate forcing her to apologize.
Thank you so much for this video!! Kpop fans have been harassing every single TikToker, UA-camr and influencer that praises lsrf. It's actually crazy how obsessed they are, the jeaulosy is incredible 😂😂 Instead of just talking and praising their own favs they go and bully lsrf and fearnots. Kpop fans and knets are the worst people, it makes me so disgusted....
imma be real, le sserafim has just been getting constant HEAT all year long lmfao. im not even a fearnot honestly, i listen to 3 songs from them (smarter, antifragile, epatbw) and i legit am so done with the constant drama-ma-ma-ma. like this is going to be my 28th reason :sob:
edit: my personal take is like, not every kpop group is going to launch with excellent vocals immediately, some may take time to improve (see nmixx). not every kpop vocalist is going to be tayeon or jeongyeon or seulgi, let me be real: SINGING IS FUCKING HARD, especially when also DANCING to a relatively BPM-HEAVY CHOREO (i dance, its a lotta work) and its a skill that you improve upon with time and practice. vocal training, practicing, that stuff. was the performance middling, yes. but they should vocal train, and using this as a way to promote red velvet or twice, both groups i fucking ADORE, is so wrong because ofc they're gonna probably be stronger vocalists, both groups have a decade on LSF. same applies to ILLIT. idols have different skill levels in terms of singing, and may need more/less practice depending.
but also again, im somewhat out of the loop on all the minute details so maybe im just yapping
The intro and exit slayyyed so much 💞💞
I don't understand why what I have seen was different for k-nitizens. I left it as background while doing work, and was vibing the whole time, even check out some Sakura's part because she was fire. I get they were out of tune sometimes, and felt sorry for Eunchae and Kazuha because I felt the terror in their faces when they sang badly, but the performance was fire, I hope they had as much fun as I had while watching it
I was hoping them to do well at coachella and beat all of the allegations during the smart era, but it happened otherwise. Le Sserafim has entered a complicated situation. I hope it will get better for them.
I'm not sure doing well would help.
Unless they suddenly became top tier vocalists I don't think the internet would accept it.
@@lluuii yes, your point makes sense. internet is a wild place after all.
@@lluuiithey don't have to be top tier vocalists just more stable. All they really need is good vocal stamina. I would love for them to improve their overall technique too but majority of the fans especially in kpop can't tell apart good singers and just stable singers.
The intro was such a definition of kpop👀
I have to ask when Ive, Blackpink, Wonyoung, and Jennie were getting hate for no reason. Where were y'all??
Enjoying
Real I'm not even fan of these groups but some of their hate were so unnecessary but ls on the other hand, are very valid
Thank you for making this video
It is not just a domestic problem I feel. It is also something international k-pop fans have to go through. K-pop fans usually bullied for liking k-pop and this thing going around will only increase that. All the people I was trying to take interest in k-pop are asking me if they are what k-pop is like??? This is absolutely embarassing. Also constructive criticism will not work in this case. That have been around for years now since fearless. But do they care???? Even the members themselves don't care, you see what sakura wrote in addressing this situation??.
Only negative criticism will work now. And with negative criticism hateful people will find a chance to hate. But there is no way out. It is high time for negative criticism.
Out of the people taking on lsf I m sure 60 pcg are just pissed the way they performed and moreover the way they adressed their poor performance.
I m so sorry but I do not agree.
(a)It's not just a domestic problem.(K-pop isn't just limited to korea anymore)
(b)Comparision of a big k-pop group like lsf to indie arists makes absolutely no sense. (Lsf do not make their own music and are promoted as a k-pop group who will sing dance and perform)
(c) We need to make this a big issue bcz initially it was a small issue and nobody cared.
Your comment needs more likes cause I'm tired of all the excuses people come up with just to not accept the fact that a singer should be able to sing. It's as simple as that.
@@inalusa9011 They are marketed as such. Imagine an ice cream tasting sour. 😑
If you don't like them then don't listen or watch them. Legitimately if you think they suck then by all means just stop paying attention to them. I am alarmed by the phrase "negative criticism" and I feel like encouraging anyone to behave that way is immature. Do you not think they have heard the critiques? Sakura already responded with her thoughts on this on weverse. They are going to perform however they perform and if you're not into that, I genuinely suggest for your own mental health that you just pay attention to things you do enjoy, because obviously you don't like this group and are wanting something from them that they are definitely not going to provide to you via "negative criticism."
@@devochka-s-kare criticism is absolutely valid. It can be constructive "omg, I think they need to improve on their vocals, they should work on stability and breath control with a good coach" Or negative "They should do better, this is embarassing to watch, they aren't even ready for such a big event, they absolutely did such a bad job". Each of the above is valid and not hate. And I m saying this bcz I care. Or else I don't care if for example enhypen or illit or anybody does it. I don't stan them. I will not watch them anyway. They do not suck and can easily improve. If something so easy cannot be taken into account then they are just disrespecting us atp.
I agree, I didn’t mean to make it sound like it’s *only* a domestic problem - I wanted to mention that because I believe this being a problem in Korea that’s being covered on the news is probably one of the most actionable things that can come out of this whole problem
People are justified in wanting le sserafim to become better vocalists, and if there’s anything that can encourage HYBE to put in the necessary resources to make that change, the fact that it has become a bigger issue domestically in Korea is probably the thing that will encourage HYBE to make a change
WORLD OF WARCRAFT MENTIONED ! FOR THE ALLIANCE RAAAAAAHHHHH ! ALL MY HOMIES HATE THE HORDE !
Haha 😭😭
Coachellagate is such a great description
ahhh i have a lot of things but i will just say
gonna say sakura improved a lot i do think eunchae and kazuha really need more practice and just sounded bad
idk what happened with yunjin cause she seemed to be surprisingly struggling
chaewon slayed but i still think just hating sucks and tbh they do deserve the criticism that’s what i think and i also feel like hybe knew that lsfm was not ready but they did it and now lsfm is struggling cause they didn’t get lessons prob
also love the new pfp
thisss
Same! Perhaps they were just nervous with a performance like Coachella and that impacted their ability to be stable vocally. - that’s not a defense for them, but it could be a reason
@@choujimii agree but i do think they have one more performance to go so hopefully that would be better
Hate train exists that's true, but let's not get ahead of ourselves. These girls do deserve serious criticism and go back to some training, especially because few of them have been in the industry for a while. Even if HYBE is horrible at training or just don't care about vocals, these idols can practice on their own, can get lessons on their own with their money.
Criticism does wonder sometimes. Look at Taemin's singing at debut. Everything is possible with hard work.
On a bright note, Sakura did better at Coachella vocally than usually and frankly showcased more possible improvements than Yunjin who is about to regress.
I get what you mean but we really don't know what is going on behind the scenes and how much freedom they may or may not have. Yeah, if I was in their position I'd go get classes but I'm not and no one is.
What I'm trying to say is that it may not be productive to get upset at the girls especially because they shouldn't have to go out of their way to get classes. Shouldn't a big company have a teacher for that?
I don’t know if I got my point across but basically, I believe that it should be the company responsibility to give the girls the tools to improve. If Hybe does give them the tools, such as classes, and they still aren’t improving that’s on the girls.
@@lluuiiMany idols have been open about getting classes outside of their respected companies. Suhyun from Akmu said that YG coaches were changing her voice, so she started practicing outside of the company, various of idols from SME had their personal coaches.
If HYBE provided/ is providing them vocal lessons (which aren't effective) and yet they're still getting viral for bad vocals it's on them to different approach.
@@AB-yk2pq I know that's the case and I agree that at this point if Hybe does nothing to help Le Sserafim they should themselves get help.
I guess I'm still figuring out how I feel about this and where my disappointment should be directed, if towards the company or the girl. I'm currently leaning towards putting the blame on the company but I can also see myself changing position in the future.
@@lluuiiIt's okay to simply put a bit of blame on both, that's the most fair thing to say.
The company for simply debuting them with this level vocally. Them for not improving despite getting into "controversy" every other era.
I think it would be the best for them to pause their activities for a bit, rest and see how and when to improve themselves. Hiatuses worked well for groups who had a will to improve, so time will tell.
The criticism sure did wonders for Lia.
Look, I simply do not buy that spamming idols to hit the training room is constructive criticism. If it is motivation to practice for some idols, it is an unhealthy motivator that sets a bad example.
It lost the plot a long time ago and a lot of the online hate comes from anti’s and engagement bots.
BUT I do question Hybe’s decisions to not only let them perform with all the current controversy but after a comeback??? It just was insane on their part to have them go to promotions to performing at a music festival. I just hope they don’t take it to heart but they do genuinely improve their vocals. I also think it was missed opportunity to showcase some of their collabs. Chaewon could have done her song with Tori Kelly, Yunjin with Max, I believe they had one with Salem Elise, Demi Lovato, give opportunities to showcase vocals and do less choreo. Then do songs that are more live friendly like The Great Mermaid, No Celestial, they appeared to have Nile Rogers on stage and did nothing with that…most great live performances are some reinterpretation of the songs. So I kind of blame their creative team and stage manager (who I have beef with anyway because I hated the costuming. Week 1 was ok, but Week 2 photographed well but looked uncomfortable to perform in. And I didn’t get it…biker club outfits??? What does that have to do with Le Sserafim? I wanted to see something Coachella-California inspired. The backgrounds were amazing. SO beautiful, but yeah the dancers costuming too was confusing. Like leather Mad Max??? Just didn’t get it no hate tho.) for not applying the necessary creativity to this stage they knew what was at stake, why did this happen? I wonder if Hybe is trying to sabotage them to justify promoting them less. They debuted a new group and are about to debut another. We’ve seen other companies do this…and Le Sserafim just can’t seem to win any major award like SOTY or any other Daesang and have only recently been able to chart significantly on billboard so this might be their attempt to just throw them at the wolves. Because otherwise I don’t understand the strategy here.
I agree with your points but I want to rant so here goes:
Le Sserafim knows by now that they need vocal training, and while they maybe shouldn’t have gone to Coachella, anyone saying that doesn’t help the fact that they already went. Hybe can’t go back in time and unsend the girls.
Also, I’ve seen people commenting that NMIXX and Mamamoo would do a better performance. Uh, yeah, I certainly hope the two groups with the arguably the best/ most stable vocals would have a better vocal performance than Le Sserafim! They would also have a better performance than most groups lol. But what do those two groups not have in common with Le Sserafim? Music targeted towards a Western audience, and that’s what makes LS so good at Coachella, people enjoyed the music there.
And then with the amount of actual hate that’s getting thrown at the group (like calling them a cancer to kpop for example) it’s the FANS who are the bad guys?
Should fans be delusional? Obviously not, but I don’t think they are, they know it wasn’t a good vocal performance, but it was still a good performance. It accomplished its goal of having the people who payed to see it enjoy it. Which also brings me to my point of- why is it that the people who weren’t even there are complaining that it wasn’t good and the people there didn’t enjoy it??
I’m not even a fearnot but yeah….
Thank you. Of course NMIXX and Mamamoo would have a better vocal performance, but in a Coachella setting, I think Le sserafim has the better overall performance. They had great crowd engagement/entertainment. Things like Yunjin's little ass shake during Unforgiven and later her saying "Coachella, are you ready to shaking some fucking ass!" right as Smart was starting. It got the crowd going. It's also what you said about how their music is geared towards the west. You could hear the crowd singing a couple of their songs pretty clearly. I was somewhat shocked, considering it wasn't a Le sserafim concert, but Coachella. They loved it.
@@--Canon-- It’s really just not a fair comparison at all. And the way everyone’s acting like LS ran over their cat on the way to Coachella is beyond me…
I also really think that them singing poorly is a coverup for the fact that Eunchae is a minor doing not very appropriate things.
I think you're wrong. I am not a kpop stan by any means I don't even understand why generations are a thing. I am just a middle aged fat American lady who likes music.
Both Mamamoo and Nmixx appeal to me more than LSF. Americans really like vocalists over dancers, especially in pop/r&b. Like we love certain dancer/singers, but a wide range of great singers who are weak dancers are actually who we keep in the industry. Look at Lana Delray and Billie Eilish, neither dance at their Coachella performances and yet, those performances are widely shared.
I personally would die over an almost all English record from Mamamoo I could sing along with. (Also, despite how social media makes it look, most regular Coachella attendees are older, they are working and earning enough money to do Coachella.)
@@Kimberly_Sparkles Firstly, I have no idea what you being “fat” has to do with this argument at all.
Secondly, from what I’ve seen, unless people have unusual/ unique or exceptionally good voices, it’s really WHAT type of music they make that counts (i.e. a breakup song or a popular genre). Like they obviously don’t have BAD vocals, but I don’t think the general populous care about vocals unless they’re LOOKING for it.
On that same point, dancing isn’t really a focus in America unless a singer has a background in it, but you’ll find that singers integrate dance into their performances more and more.
Also, as an argument to the performance over vocals model, I’ll just say: Beyoncé.
Thirdly, you might appreciate NMIXX or Mamamoo for their vocals and that’s very valid. It still doesn’t change the fact that they don’t target the general Western pop music sound like LS does.
@@vivid_blossoms I think Americans tend to elevate great vocalists regardless of genre, so that you could release a strong vocal group here and they might take off even if their genre isn't big or known at all. I don't think you have to target us to sell to us. Conversely, in performance, we expect singing or dancing to be done well. Doing both screams musical theater actor or someone like Beyoncé who is not an average elite performer.
I'd actually disagree with this statement: I don’t think the general populous care about vocals unless they’re LOOKING for it.
historically, if you look at people we call legends, most have serious vocal chops.
i think the problem is that for kpop there are limited opportunities internationally...only a few groups get to perform on such large stages like coachella and obviously, kpop fans want their own favorite group to have that rare opportunity so for lsrf to go and take one of the rare opportunities and be only the second gg to perform in coachella it is a big deal and it feels like they needed to prove to everyone that they deserved it...but unfortunately they failed so they are suffering the consequences
they were invited though so like, they didn't really "take" anyone's spot. it's not like hybe, source, or le sserafim themselves called up coachella and said "book me"
@@devochka-s-kare That's true but what i mean is that one of the reasons why kpop fans are acting this way, in my opinion, is because the music industry in america doesn't give that many spots/opportunities to kpop groups so it becomes this huge competition between kpop fans and so they start acting crazy and hateful towards groups who get the opportunity i'm not saying this behavior is right i'm just explaining what i think the root of the hate directed at lsrf could be
@@matinicky6444 Ah okay yeah, I get what you mean by that. I do agree with that sentiment. I hate all the toxic fanwars and I wish there were more opportunities for groups to shine on big stages internationally, because honestly I like a lot of the other ggs whose stans are coming for lsfm right now haha. I guess my gut reaction to your comment was because of the word "failed" when I personally think that they didn't fail, because I enjoyed their performance and I do believe they showed an authentic performance that proves their reason to have been invited. I can definitely see why knetizens are more sensitive about this though, but in my opinion it doesn't make Korea look bad, even if the performance wasn't up to the knetizens' standards. Sorry I think I'm kind of rambling now, but I get what you mean.
I'm gonna go through your points one by one:
1. Coachella isn't a dance competition nor a singing competition HOWEVER, your argument that indie acts sing horribly and still perform holds no ground since LS isn't an indie act. They're a huge group produced and backed up by probably the most influential and powerful company in Korea. For that reason alone they have resources that these indie acts can't even dream of yet the comparison is the same regardless of their disadvantages. Not only isn't that fair but very cruel because you expect much better acts from those that can't afford top name coaches to get better when you know for a fact that if these indie acts love what they do, they want to get better.
2. Going back to my point about indie acts, indie acts are there to get their name out there and spark interest from the audience both in real time and online. LS was one of the very very few Korean acts to have been invited to Coachella so the prying eyes were on them even before their performance. Having an already huge audience means they are representing Korea in every aspect. We see that with ATEEZ's performance and the amount of praise and respect they have gained both from Koreans and international audiences through their job which is sing, dance and perform.
3. As someone who voiced her disappointment early on, Coachella isn't a practice room for them to get better, there needs to be at least a standard and most of the comments I have seen are saying that they weren't ready for this huge stage and I agree with them.
The standard was set by 2ne1 and BlackPink who both delivered aw-inspiring performances while having fun so to say it's only important to have fun and not deliver what you're paid to do which is, to a standard put in place by Korean companies, to sing.
4. For the love of god, I said it before and I'll say it again. As an idol, you NEED to sing. Not as a main vocalist but at least hold a note. We as the audience don't expect Wendy like or Solar like vocals from idols but the bar is in hell now. How is it too much to ask to be able to hold a frequency of sound waves? Aren't they trained to at least do that? Is it all about dance now? Especially on a stage that demands you to sing live?
It's good that they had fun and enjoyed themselves but they should not be proud of what they have put out. I really don't understand why do their fans act as if this was okay? As a consumer we need quality and this is sure not quality. We have come so far into cuddling our idols and our perception of them that no criticism is now tolerated but actually is shut down for the fear of hurting one's feeling. If you're paid to do a job, you do it correctly and if you didn't, you're exposed to criticism. That's how it is in any line of work and kpop isn't any different.
Factsss 💯
My favorite trilogy well I guess whatever four is now is back. 😂
I belive that Le sserafim actually deserve every bit of criticism right now. A lot of fans just don't like their favs getting called out so they call everything "hate". These girls chose to become idols, they chose to be part of a musical group. The most basic requierment for that job is to be able to sing. Imagine a baker that doesn't know how to bake bread or a english teacher who doesn't know how to speak english. If you can't do your work propably, people are going to criticise you for it.
This is such a dumb take. The agency told them they met the standard to be idols. Idols aren't bakers. When we buy bread, we don't know who baked it and we don't care to know. The idol industry is about personality. For an idol, their standard of success isn't talent, it's sales. That's the reality. As much as kpop stans like to pretend and weaponize "talent" as a standard in order to hate on groups they don't like who happen to be successful, the fact remains they are good at their "job" which is to cultivate fans and make them spend money. If you want to stan for musical talent alone, then great but kpop isn't the industry for you. You will be perpetually angry at who is the most popular, wether it's Wonyoung, Lisa or Sakura, none of which can actually sing (or rap) with skill.
i’m a fan of the group, and personally i think it wasn’t bad, it actually looked fun even! but being on the news and being the talk of the netz back home might be the catalyst for hybe (and the idols themselves) to save face and finally do something about the areas they’re lacking in. they’ve been resting on their laurels for a long while now, and this ought to be their wake up call. hoping for them to pull a dua lipa 🤞🏼
I think people criticising lesserafim for their coachella performance has never been in a music festival before. I remember foals in Glastonbury or Arctic Monkeys in primavera sound where the first did an excellent performance even if they didn't sound like studio songs, but the very passion they share to the fans was the main focus of the presentation, while the latter has been changing their sound more up to their recent songs so they gavea fresh touch for their most repeated songs. What I mean is that lesserafim did enjoy giving that concert, it wasn't perfect, but that doesn't matter in a music festival, you want to have fun listening artists while they are having fun with what they do. As you said coachella isn't a singing competition and also it isn't the pinnacle of music, people don't go to appreciate the finest vocals on the world, they want to have fun. This just show how out of touch some kpop stans are, casual listeners actually liked it, even though it wasn't perfect.
Hybe first mistake is letting sakura make that god awful statement, cause after that the hatred just got bigger..
Honestly , they wouldve done better if their choreos werent a f*cken marathon
This issue also tells me that k-pop stans refuse to recognize the differences between criticism and hate. Not all criticism has to be constructive. It’s not helpful, sure, but that doesn’t make it hate. I got dragged for calling LESSERAFIM’s performance objectively bad. People getting angry at each other isn’t gonna do anything.
Because arguably, what’s the point of giving criticism if it ISN’T constructive?
@@vivid_blossoms to identify the problem, because some people refuse to do that.
@@indigo_neo right but everyone knows that there is a problem, so just pointing it out when everyone knows it isn’t always helpful.
And then there’s also a problem of “it’s the internet, everything gets mixed up”
@@vivid_blossoms that’s true, but we can’t call those statements hate.
Couldn't have said it better and I'm not a fan of them to notice the same!
The only thing I didn't like of some Lesserafim fans is that they were defending them making excuses for groups like Ateez being better, that not only were not true and was like discrediting their work, but bc we really can defend the girls without comparing other groups!!
Ofc I'm sure there must have been atinys doing the comparing thing to them as well and it's wrong too but wanted to talk about that situation too.
And the Atinys that did reply in response of those fans tallking about Atz made us look like we were against the girls😩
Anyways, I'm done too and I need everyone to shut up about this topic, it's been talked enough and even when done without hate it's adding to it somehow and thinking of the negatives to much, plus it's uncomfortable how many are talking about it, again even without hate it feels like harassing for the amount of ppl and makes me feel so bad for them..
And on another topic can I see from were it is that intro and outro? That was very epic and true!
I remember in le ssera debut era they sang fearless live on music bank?Or my memory might just be distorted but i even remember people praising them for hitting such low notes on live...Was i dreaming?
Agreed for almost all but I have my doubts on whether this really is that big of a deal for the average Korean. Most of the Korean comments seem to be from other Kpop stans and trolls on burner accounts. The Chaewon US flags were also on JTBC a couple of weeks ago. Doesn’t mean it’s big enough of a deal for Hybe to do anything.
That said I do hope something changes with Hybe’s vocal coaching. I’ve seen LSF content and the girls do practice live singing, and while their choreo/performance director is present, a vocal coach is not. It seems like they have no one to give proper criticism or guidance in that regard. They have also mentioned having vocal lessons from time to time, but I have my doubts on how effective these lessons are. I know some people think the members should take the initiative and hire their own coaches, but how can they have effective and consistent training with their schedule that they have little control over?
I think Kpop fans are being too entitled in their demands (why would Sakura apologize for a show its attendees enjoyed?), but I want the best for the members. Good technique is not just about sounding good but also being able to sing comfortably and healthily. I was a Jimin fan and I’ve seen how his vocals degraded over the years, resulting in that infamous encore last year. It’s something that needs to be considered if Hybe has any care for the health and the longevity of their artists.
There is a huge difference between making music because you enjoy doing it or doing it cuz it's your job..
I agree, but I don’t think we’ll ever know who’s only in the industry because it’s a job to them - unless they explicitly say that haha
@@choujimi but tbh, you have to do both in this industry because there is major competition.
this is not related bcs I agreed w everything u said - but I think hybe should’ve done a better job of their performance, as in, blackpink had sets and remixes and didn’t hv to do the actual choreo the whole way thru - but managed to still hype the crowd and be recognised as K-pop due to the huge performance aspect of it. idk how much their budget was but hybe just gave them a stage and a mic and said go sing and dance
I think the problem isn't LSFM, it's about HYBE and popularity. As others have said, a lot of people have issues with how HYBE runs their company, and the artists are the only thing that can be blamed. As well, the problem with LSFM not meeting vocal standards are that they are one of the most popular girl groups right now. Given the nature of kpop, if they aren't held to a higher standard it almost seems "unfair" to the other talented groups who would absolutely deliver if they were just given the chance.
It's human nature to vote for the talented underdogs over the less talented "nepo babies", not saying LSFM doesn't deserve fame, but because they are popular and kpop gatekeeps popularity; groups like NMIXX and KIOF will maybe never be able to attend Coachella despite their great capability and skill.
They would kill those performances, live vocals, dance and whatnot. But no, because only the "popular" groups can go to Coachella and get brand deals, and they are only considered the "best" groups, but what if they aren't actually "the best": that's where the problem lies.
isnt coachella just for everyone to vibe
Vibe doesn't give you freedom to just be bad at singing tho.
Yes, it's literally just a music festival where influencers take pics to show they were there, and people drink and do drugs and enjoy some live performances. key word being performance. he's absolutely right when he says some of those indie rock bands can't sing for shit.
@@AB-yk2pqWhat matters is that the paying audience has a good time. How exactly that happens doesn't really matter.
Reviews said Frank Ocean had great vocals when he sang but that didn't save it from being a legendarily messy Coachella set because he was late, hard to see, and kind of low-energy.
@@bopete3204And how do you know that every single person who paid for tickets had good time and didn't mind their vocals?
And that argument isn't that strong, if they sound bad on Coachella, they could sound equally bad on any events that are paid.
If people who watched live stream found it bad, they have as much as right to voice it and that includes disappointed Koreans.
@@AB-yk2pq Let's be real, the vast majority of people watched selectively cut clips. And obviously it's impossible every single person had a good time, but if it was a bad set. Any people would've posted about their bad time and haters would be sharing it on social media.
Great work, Choujimi, as always! My thoughts on this whole situation from the K-Tube community side of things, it's very sad. People need to stop hating. Not everyone is Jennie (from BLACKPINK, yes I'm making that comparison knowing how long her hate train went on) or TaeYeon from Girls' Generation. LE SSERAFIM have good music, in my opinion, and although I don't care about Coachella that much, I don't think it's right to see the amount of hatred the girls are getting over this. Hybe needs to train their artists better, vocally and heal this in whatever way is best. Hopefully not through disbandment, because that's a real possibility, from what I've seen in situations similar to this albeit with nugu groups. But, I do think that's a real fear, I have, in my opinion. All in all, Coachella was meh to me (aside from Renee Rapp and ATEEZ); and while I don't want LE SSERAFIM to get any more hatred, I do want them to improve. But we as a community need to understand as you said, it comes from the company's decisions. Not ours. Thanks for attending my TedTalk. - Skye.
Edit: World of Warcraft Opening... Here for it.
Jennie can't sing either tho. She's just known to have swag.
@@Lonadurn I definitely agree. I don't listen to Jennie for her singing, lol. :) But I don't want to see any more hatred on these members, just because it's become more than a little tired, in my opinion.
Tecnique wise,really bad stage presence wise fairly fine so i get both sides the performance did hype people up but their singing was bad. As long as the people who paid enjoyed,i don't see the problem.But i do think this is something to worry about because even if they focus is on stage presence,the vocals should be decent which weren't
it will past
Who recognided the wow intro
All this era showed ppl is, how k pop fans DON’T know what true constructive criticism is. It’s crazy how nowadays some people will disguise pure hate and call it “criticism” GTFOOO. Every group and artist needs criticism and feedback, it helps make them grow and better their art but, blatant hating and HARASSMENT is NOT needed and is NOT the same thing!!!! Idk how that’s so hard to comprehend. Like nobody told K-pop fans they couldn’t voice their opinion’s but, does it really kíll them to just not use unnecessarily rude remarks just to get their point across??? It just irks me how they feel so entitled to leave such disgusting remarks to a group who, under a labels pov, was well enough to debut and continue to produce music. If they need breathing practice, singing practice, that’s okay. There’s literally nothing wrong with that, Korea’s music entertainment has given ppl the false impression that artists can sing perfect while dancing EVERY. SINGLE. TIME. when that’s CLEARLY not even humanly possible to sound like the studio ver. every time. It just will never make sense. All these girls need is more breathing practice and better ways to deliver certain notes, how they get it, that’s their business but, they’re clearly talented enough to make it big in the entertainment world to be known so publicly. I’m so tired of ppl excepting idols to be like dolls, completely and utterly perfect… just not realistic. Everyone has made mistakes, even the most popular artists, it’s truly not a big deal like ppl have made it out to be. They need to get their heads out of LALA land, HONESTLY.
I'm honestly not the biggest Le Sserafim Fan, they really lost me during Unforgiven Era bc I really disliked the song & I still think the criticism for their encore stages is more than valid, I even wrote my own little thread about them on my priv twitter acc bc there were just SO many scandels happening around them at that time, like the st*rb*cks situation.
BUT I have watched their coachella performance during the livestream and I honestly really enjoyed it. I was so shocked when I saw people saying it was horrible or embarressing, bc to me it was just a good show, especially Eunchae stood out to me with suprisingly stable vocals, and Chaewon & Yunjin were great as always. Like you said, not every artist has to have beyoncé-like vocals & while I do think that Source Music should invest a LOT more into their vocal lessons, I think people tend to forget that there are groups with different focus points. I usually like vocal-centered groups which is why I stan NMIXX & Gfriend is my ult girlgroup for example, and in my opinion, Le Sserafim is a dance-centered group, which is not nessecarily a bad thing. But even for a dance-centered group they definitely neglected their vocal skills & should definitely work on that, bc from an outsiders perspective it just seems like Le Sserafim was an easy cash grab for Source M. with two members already being super popular through IZ*ONE, having the support from HYBE Labels and the money they still had from Gfriend. They went all in, spend all the money to boost the girls' popularity and completely forgetting about some of the essential elements that are needed for a longterm successfull group, and this is where the image is slowely starting the crumble eventually resulting in their downfall if they don't change their strategy.
so dramatic and i love it 🥲 what i found really surprising was the korean public reaction like for the first time i had seen the comments section on a youtube video of an international performance posted by international fans be filled with comments in korean and while i can’t nor do i want to dismiss the korean community i think it’s a bit pointless to say things “you are a disgrace to korea” when international fans at least the ones who were there were enjoying the performance. the only thing that needs to happen is that hybe takes the criticism and really just get them better vocal training. better vocal training for everyone.
I (and most ppl actually) saw this hate train coming from miles away. Ever since that encore stage.
I don't know what you're getting at with saying how people (only) you have met don't care about kpop. I think I missed the point but the domestic audience and their preferences are the main priority for these companies. If people didn't care they wouldn't be treated as the top market point would they? I think what you're trying to say is that patriotic pride is making Koreans angry since lsf essentially made fools out of them, right? Sorry for the harsh language I'm too tired to be thinking of another way to put it.
I used to defend hybe but atp I couldn't care less. They dug their own grave so they better lie in it. They set up these groups for failure. A multi-billion dollar corporation has no excuse as to why proper training wasn't given to trainees. Picking visuals over talent (talking about illit here) has finally come to bite them in the ass and they deserve it. The only downside is that it's coming at the expense of these hopeful young children.
Someone here said that most ppl have hate for hybe that is wrongfully being directed at lsf and that makes a lot of sense. As someone who has full-fledged disgust for hybe after they got scootar, i wouldn't hate on lsf but you best believe I'm gonna be one of those dragging hybe's name through the mud.
In terms of actionable outcomes from all the criticism, I personally believe it’s the negative coverage this is getting in Korea that could cause the most change in HYBE labels - that’s what I meant by bringing that up
@@choujimi okay thanks for clarifying!
Well actually both week performances have backtrack it's just that their is technical error in live steam on it's first week.
It is more likely the whole kpop industry embedded the image of perfection (but it is far fetched to what it seems) namely the ridiculous kbs, "live stage performance", all idol are saints, nice, good, angelic, etc. In reality there is no perfect at all, yet there are kpop stans who believe that their faves can sing while dancing during the whole duration 40 mins - 2hrs. How gullible people can be?
I will only believe that a group/ soloist can do real live performances for 40 -120 mins if the performance have no backtrack, no pitch corrector/ autotune, no layering and or any vocal effects. (Don't start with MR removed some of these creators are clout chaser).
I will understand the real constructive criticism but the "criticism" most of the kpop stan do is just simply hating. What sickening are the dearh threats, sending hates to their families, calling names, flooding the minor ig's posts with hateful remarks, etc. Are we growing backwards now?
The never ending saga of toxicity in entertainment industry remains and going stronger every year. Poor artists (all artists from diff. Countries too), immature fans will never let them breathe.
what happened?
whats happening right now isnt even criticism or hate anymore..its straight up bullying just to be "funny" or "annoying" on the internet or something???..im wondering whats going on with their minds...or worst...their lives...dont they have anything better to do???like go and see a psychiatrist...coz for me..."hating" on pretty much anything the girls do (or anyone else on that matter) is not a normal person would do....
Idk Le Sserafim is embarrassingly bad 💀 with so many other groups and companies actually delivering decent vocals, dance, and good stage presence, YG and HYBE embarrass me as a kpop fan. Nobody I've shown their music to likes it. It's just NOT good. And it's weird that they do not provide better outfits, especially for Eunchae. HYBE is horribly bad about sexualizing minors and with their vocals being terrible, they're essentially only known for slutty look and bad vocals. I don't like any HYBE groups. I listen to kpop over US music despite being from the US because there was a standard of not being overtly sexual, crude, or gross, and the idols wore good clothes that matched the vibe of the tracks, with good music videos centered around artistry. LS has not done that since Antifragile. New Jeans has never done that at all. It's very disappointing especially with talented people like Hanni and Chaewon being well respected FOR their talents, seeing it washed down the drain is EMBARRASSING.
i don’t know how you manage to go from criticising hybe for sexualising minors (which i agree with) to then saying they’re only known for being slutty. the fact you typed that out and didn’t catch that…
there’s too many artists under hybe to make this generalisation in my opinion. besides, isn’t newjeans praised a lot for their stories inside their music videos?
that 30 second intro can go... truly... no need.