Appreciate the backdrop which really helps your viewers see the tree you were working on! BTW, on the upright sprouts... imho just because we may see a tree somewhere with branches growing upward or whatever, does not always mean that is something we want to do with our bonsai. To each their own, in terms of the 'look' they want... but One MAJOR problem with upright branches on your slanting trunk pre-bonsai is that those upright shoots hog all the vigor and make it grow in a very out-of-balance manner, from the standpoint of bonsai training. For instance, that attractive down and outward branch will not get much of a chance.
I love to see the pre bonsai garden developing. I was wondering if maybe you could give me some tips. I have a tree that I dug up from my yard to make room for a garage I built. The tree was in the way of the excavator, and it was actually growing through a chain link fence. When I removed the tree, it had already been cut back hard by the previous owners of the house. Then it grew un attended for a while till I bought the property. When I moved in I pruned it a coupe times to maintain it's unkempt growth. I am really surprised the tree survived, but it has been it's second spring, and it is growing awesome. But I have no clue of what type of tree it is. I was hoping to get your expert opinion of what it is, and maybe of how to continue to style it. If you feel like you have the time to watch a video, I can record a quick one of the tree and post it on my youtube channel. I am very happy to have the tree survive, barbecue honestly, when I dug it up, there was hardly any feeder roots left on it. I don't even remember what type of soil I put it in after, but it survived. I know since it's transplant, I have pruned it one spring to control the growth again. Because of all the constant neglect over the years, it is not a pretty tree, but it's alive and I am happy.
Nigel Saunders can i send my picture of my ficus to you too?i don't even know what type of ficus is mine. there are 2 trees. i send a picture of the ficus for you to identify okay? i will try email you in few days times :) many thanks again sir.
Kennet De Bondt I never did get around to any root pruning on these trees. I imagine the roots are pretty bad. I'll dig up what I can, and the rest will have to be ground layered. The trees should be dug up and repotted every two years, I just never seem to find enough time in spring.
I'm almost afraid to tackle the pre bonsai garden! The trees are taller than me at the moment and the weeds have grown well also! I'll try and get to it soon for an update.
Judging by this video, they looked so good already in 2015. Maybe they will be ready to dig up next spring? Can't wait to see them in bonsai pots. These are some unconventional species, but they have great trunks!
Hi Mr. Nigel! You say getting the root system sorted out is the most important thing for a bonsai, so, doesn't the prebonsai garden actually mess up the whole philosophy? Does clip and grow technique even need a pre bonsai phase as the tree gets to grow as much as it can before pruning it and thus thickening the trunk?
Hey Nigel, Glad I came across this old video. I just started planting some of my young nursery stock in the ground to get better growth to start thickening the trunk. I guess the one draw back is not being able to work on the roots to develop nice radial roots. Have you ever dug up any of trees to work on the root system and then replant it right back in the ground? Or would that root pruning cut back on the overall growth of the tree and thickening of the trunk? Thanks, GARY
Yes, my mistake was not digging them up every year or two and root pruning. I will have a really hard and almost impossible time getting them out now. Live and learn!
I read that putting a tree in the ground actually slows growth relative to a large pot for the first year or two as the tree focuses on growing roots. Then the growth explodes into the tree. So two questions. 1) do you find this is true or do you see stronger growth in the ground from the start? 2) If growth slows while roots develop in the ground, wouldn't a root prune every few years negate the hard work your tree has just done growing them? Thanks Love your videos!
Shared on Google+ Pre Bonsai Garden, June 2015 (10/14/2015) Nigel Saunders a few friends, like myself have enjoyed Bonsai, but never had the opportunity to own one, some would like to try growing a Bonsai. Could you possibly help us? How to start ? I would be greatly appreciative of any info you can share. There is a Community in which I'm the Owner, & it's called Bonsai: Trees / Flowers. Thank you for taking the time to read this, as it will help us all and my community. Forevermore, Anika Tyrone. 6:21 am. .
I saw another youtube movie with a trick for growing the trunks thickness. You take a knife and cut the part of the trunk you want down the middle. It will grow back together, but will add thickness in the process. Are you familiar with this technique, and what you think about it? Best regards from Denmark :)
I have seen this done on pines, the immediate result doesn't look too good, but maybe in the long run it makes the tree look better? I would be worried about un natural scars on the trunk. I think I would try this on a tree that I wasn't too fond of first to try it out!
We do get a lot of mosquitoes late June and early July, I just try and stay covered up and swat them a lot! We take all the usual precautions, covering up the rain barrels, not leaving standing water, but the small stream in the back yard doesn't move much in summer, so we rely on the bats and spiders to do their job! They do seem to keep them under control.
I need your advice, when digging the trees out to put into pots how deep do you end up digging? Ive had many bad experiences where I dig a nice tree out the ground (legally) but end up digging up to a meter deep just because the main root goes that deep. This was however in a very dry area with poor soil ( Zululand, South Africa).
Robby Ray If you get that long tap root, going down really deep, it is best to do a ground layer to the tree. Check out this video of a ground layer to a maple tree. ua-cam.com/video/ENhE8uf_Lb0/v-deo.html You would have to keep the area around the tree watered until you get a set of new roots growing. A ground layer may take up to a year or two, before you can remove the tree safely. You will get a nice set of roots from the process.
Nigel, this may be a stupid question- but say you wanted to repot the pre bonsai's and start, if you pruned the long branches even shorter, would they sprout leaves ? Or would they grow to the same length before sprouting again ?
I think pruning the branches shorter on the deciduous trees would give you some back budding closer to the trunk on the woody branches. This would allow you to make a more compact tree. The pines and spruce trees always need healthy green needles at the tip of the branches, or the branch will die off.
Domenick Barone Boring bugs are always a worry. I did lose 60% of my trees one day in summer about 10 years ago. They attacked almost every kind of tree I had. That was the only year I've ever had a problem. They killed trees that had not been pruned at all, some young trees and some old trees. I did some research at the time and found there is not much you can do about them. One beetle can kill the tree within hours. I just hope it doesn't happen again. hyg.ipm.illinois.edu/pastpest/200008f.html
Nigel Saunders Wow, Losing more than half your trees would be heartbreaking. Thanks for the link. Nigel, You should consider activating fan funding on your UA-cam page. If all your subscribers gave a dollar, think of the nice bonsai tools you can get. :-)
Domenick Barone Losing trees kinda changes your view on bonsai. You hope they will be around for a long time, but you just have to enjoy them, knowing they could die any time. There is no crying in baseball and bonsai!
Nigel, you may want to look into inoculating your soil with beneficial microbes. One way to do this is via high quality compost- made with the correct balance of carbonaceous to high-nitrogen material, with proper levels of moisture, and above all OXYGEN. The right soil life will prevent pathogenic soil-dwelling organisms from proliferating. Search Dr. Elaine Ingham of Soil Food Web for more info (talks here on YT), or visit her website. Beneficial soil nematodes prey on many soil-dwelling pests. Arbico Organics has more info, and sells several good products. Among other sources...
I had such a busy summer, I didn't get any time to work on the trees in the front garden. I think the maple that I ground layered the roots is ready for digging up this spring. I only pruned the trees once in fall after they grew taller than me! I will be digging up some more trees this spring and making videos of this.
I would do the hard pruning in fall after the leaves have dropped off. There is little activity in the tree at this time of the year and the wounds will have sealed themselves by spring when the sap starts to run. Both trees can take hard pruning well.
Thank you :) Same with apple? I've read that apple trees actually gets more vigorous after heavy pruning, but I've never heard of anyone stripping them bare.
Stephen Hayes has great videos on UA-cam about hard pruning apple trees! Best done in late winter / early spring. I've hard pruned an apple tree in the summer. It did well, but it can be quite a shock for the tree. If your tree is vigorous, you can do it if you really want to. But never prune plum or cherry trees in the summer, they do bleed.
You should see it now! I never did get a chance to prune the garden this year, the trees are much taller than me! I will be pruning them this fall, when they loose their leaves. I'll make a video!
Hey Nigel, I am looking i to starting a little pre bonsai garden for some maples. I want to plant then around my greenhouse. What side do you think is best? South for full sun or one of the sides?
ArkcoVerse Maples planted in the ground seem to take full sun with no problems. Most of the sun burn on maple bonsai is caused by the roots getting to dry. This happens often mid summer when the roots have grown all spring and have filled the pot. There is very little room left for water! With no reserve water on hand for the leaves, the natural defense is to reduce the number of leaves. I think you will be safe to put them on the south side. You may need to water them if you get a really hot dry spell.
The tree has to be very strong and have lots of stored energy in it to survive defoliation. For tropical trees, I like to do it mid summer. The first half of summer builds up the energy of the tree, and the conditions are good for the rest of the summer for the tree to recover. Hardy trees should be done late spring. The tree then has the whole summer to grow new leaves and store enough energy to survive the winter and the spring that follows. Partial defoliation is recommended over total defoliation. Total defoliation is a risky procedure, the tree may weaken and could possibly die. Everything may look good with the tree until fall, but it may not survive as it won't have enough sugars stored up from the summer. If you do defoliate, it should be done only once every 4 years or so.
All the Ash trees in our city have been cut down or inoculated. All the inoculated have since died. I do have my Ash bonsai in the front yard and so far it is doing really well. It may be the last of the many!
I add my old bonsai soil to the garden by just spreading it on top. I do hope to re do the entire garden some day, but first I'll have to work on removing the trees. I hardly got any time for the front garden this year, so much to do, so little time!
Appreciate the backdrop which really helps your viewers see the tree you were working on!
BTW, on the upright sprouts... imho just because we may see a tree somewhere with branches growing upward or whatever, does not always mean that is something we want to do with our bonsai. To each their own, in terms of the 'look' they want... but
One MAJOR problem with upright branches on your slanting trunk pre-bonsai is that those upright shoots hog all the vigor and make it grow in a very out-of-balance manner, from the standpoint of bonsai training. For instance, that attractive down and outward branch will not get much of a chance.
I love to see the pre bonsai garden developing. I was wondering if maybe you could give me some tips. I have a tree that I dug up from my yard to make room for a garage I built. The tree was in the way of the excavator, and it was actually growing through a chain link fence. When I removed the tree, it had already been cut back hard by the previous owners of the house. Then it grew un attended for a while till I bought the property. When I moved in I pruned it a coupe times to maintain it's unkempt growth.
I am really surprised the tree survived, but it has been it's second spring, and it is growing awesome. But I have no clue of what type of tree it is. I was hoping to get your expert opinion of what it is, and maybe of how to continue to style it.
If you feel like you have the time to watch a video, I can record a quick one of the tree and post it on my youtube channel.
I am very happy to have the tree survive, barbecue honestly, when I dug it up, there was hardly any feeder roots left on it. I don't even remember what type of soil I put it in after, but it survived. I know since it's transplant, I have pruned it one spring to control the growth again. Because of all the constant neglect over the years, it is not a pretty tree, but it's alive and I am happy.
deadeyeski Hi, you can send pictures if that would be easier, to ..... thekwbonsaisociety@gmail.com
I'll see if I can identify it!
Nigel Saunders can i send my picture of my ficus to you too?i don't even know what type of ficus is mine. there are 2 trees. i send a picture of the ficus for you to identify okay? i will try email you in few days times :) many thanks again sir.
Can you make an update on the pre bonsai you dug up this passed spring
smart using the black backdrop for the detail pruning... much better viewing
Nice material to start with. Do you have any idea about how the roots are or were these trees never out of the ground?
Greets
Kennet
Kennet De Bondt I never did get around to any root pruning on these trees. I imagine the roots are pretty bad. I'll dig up what I can, and the rest will have to be ground layered. The trees should be dug up and repotted every two years, I just never seem to find enough time in spring.
Hey Mr Sanders. Can you make the update on your pre bonsai? Thanks
I'm almost afraid to tackle the pre bonsai garden! The trees are taller than me at the moment and the weeds have grown well also!
I'll try and get to it soon for an update.
Judging by this video, they looked so good already in 2015. Maybe they will be ready to dig up next spring? Can't wait to see them in bonsai pots. These are some unconventional species, but they have great trunks!
would love to see an update too!
Have you tried growing rainbow eucalyptus tree?
Saunders
but his name is Nigel actually
How often do you water pre bonsai pines , spruce and maples
Wow seems ages ago I remember you posting this ..
is that fancy red acer palmatum maple from the beginning of the video still alive in canada?
Wow! Do you think there should be a big difference in terms of thickness, between planting in the ground and planting in a large planter?
Hi Mr. Nigel! You say getting the root system sorted out is the most important thing for a bonsai, so, doesn't the prebonsai garden actually mess up the whole philosophy? Does clip and grow technique even need a pre bonsai phase as the tree gets to grow as much as it can before pruning it and thus thickening the trunk?
Will you ever dig up the boxwood as bonsai?
what time of year do you do this kind of work on your trees?
I love this!
doing bonsai
Always fun in the Zone!
Hey Nigel,
Glad I came across this old video.
I just started planting some of my young nursery stock in the ground to get better growth to start thickening the trunk. I guess the one draw back is not being able to work on the roots to develop nice radial roots.
Have you ever dug up any of trees to work on the root system and then replant it right back in the ground? Or would that root pruning cut back on the overall growth of the tree and thickening of the trunk?
Thanks,
GARY
Yes, my mistake was not digging them up every year or two and root pruning. I will have a really hard and almost impossible time getting them out now. Live and learn!
I read that putting a tree in the ground actually slows growth relative to a large pot for the first year or two as the tree focuses on growing roots. Then the growth explodes into the tree. So two questions. 1) do you find this is true or do you see stronger growth in the ground from the start? 2) If growth slows while roots develop in the ground, wouldn't a root prune every few years negate the hard work your tree has just done growing them? Thanks Love your videos!
Shared on Google+ Pre Bonsai Garden, June 2015 (10/14/2015) Nigel Saunders a few friends, like myself have enjoyed Bonsai, but never had the opportunity to own one, some would like to try growing a Bonsai. Could you possibly help us? How to start ? I would be greatly appreciative of any info you can share. There is a Community in which I'm the Owner, & it's called Bonsai: Trees / Flowers. Thank you for taking the time to read this, as it will help us all and my community. Forevermore, Anika Tyrone. 6:21 am. .
I think there are many videos on how to start your own. I think even Nigel has some. Subscribe and look through his videos.
I saw another youtube movie with a trick for growing the trunks thickness. You take a knife and cut the part of the trunk you want down the middle. It will grow back together, but will add thickness in the process. Are you familiar with this technique, and what you think about it?
Best regards from Denmark :)
I have seen this done on pines, the immediate result doesn't look too good, but maybe in the long run it makes the tree look better? I would be worried about un natural scars on the trunk. I think I would try this on a tree that I wasn't too fond of first to try it out!
Nigel, have you any problems with mosquitoes in your garden in warm weather? How do you deal with such?
We do get a lot of mosquitoes late June and early July, I just try and stay covered up and swat them a lot! We take all the usual precautions, covering up the rain barrels, not leaving standing water, but the small stream in the back yard doesn't move much in summer, so we rely on the bats and spiders to do their job! They do seem to keep them under control.
the ash twigs were so dense i thought it was grass for a bit lol
What tools do you use?
I need your advice, when digging the trees out to put into pots how deep do you end up digging? Ive had many bad experiences where I dig a nice tree out the ground (legally) but end up digging up to a meter deep just because the main root goes that deep. This was however in a very dry area with poor soil ( Zululand, South Africa).
Robby Ray If you get that long tap root, going down really deep, it is best to do a ground layer to the tree. Check out this video of a ground layer to a maple tree.
ua-cam.com/video/ENhE8uf_Lb0/v-deo.html
You would have to keep the area around the tree watered until you get a set of new roots growing. A ground layer may take up to a year or two, before you can remove the tree safely. You will get a nice set of roots from the process.
Nigel, this may be a stupid question- but say you wanted to repot the pre bonsai's and start, if you pruned the long branches even shorter, would they sprout leaves ? Or would they grow to the same length before sprouting again ?
I think pruning the branches shorter on the deciduous trees would give you some back budding closer to the trunk on the woody branches. This would allow you to make a more compact tree. The pines and spruce trees always need healthy green needles at the tip of the branches, or the branch will die off.
Hey Nigel is there update on these trees?
I'm making a video right now!
Nigel, do you ever have to worry about boring bugs when you prune in the summertime?
Domenick Barone Boring bugs are always a worry. I did lose 60% of my trees one day in summer about 10 years ago. They attacked almost every kind of tree I had. That was the only year I've ever had a problem. They killed trees that had not been pruned at all, some young trees and some old trees. I did some research at the time and found there is not much you can do about them. One beetle can kill the tree within hours. I just hope it doesn't happen again.
hyg.ipm.illinois.edu/pastpest/200008f.html
Nigel Saunders Wow, Losing more than half your trees would be heartbreaking. Thanks for the link.
Nigel, You should consider activating fan funding on your UA-cam page. If all your subscribers gave a dollar, think of the nice bonsai tools you can get. :-)
Domenick Barone Losing trees kinda changes your view on bonsai. You hope they will be around for a long time, but you just have to enjoy them, knowing they could die any time. There is no crying in baseball and bonsai!
Nigel, you may want to look into inoculating your soil with beneficial microbes. One way to do this is via high quality compost- made with the correct balance of carbonaceous to high-nitrogen material, with proper levels of moisture, and above all OXYGEN. The right soil life will prevent pathogenic soil-dwelling organisms from proliferating. Search Dr. Elaine Ingham of Soil Food Web for more info (talks here on YT), or visit her website.
Beneficial soil nematodes prey on many soil-dwelling pests. Arbico Organics has more info, and sells several good products.
Among other sources...
Any updates on any of these trees Nigel
I had such a busy summer, I didn't get any time to work on the trees in the front garden. I think the maple that I ground layered the roots is ready for digging up this spring. I only pruned the trees once in fall after they grew taller than me! I will be digging up some more trees this spring and making videos of this.
Are you ever going to make that boxwood into bonsai or are they ornamental?
I'm waiting for it to grow more, it's certainly taking it's time! It is destined to be a bonsai one day!
Would cherry and plum survive such hard pruning in spring/summer? Or would the "bleed" to death?
I would do the hard pruning in fall after the leaves have dropped off. There is little activity in the tree at this time of the year and the wounds will have sealed themselves by spring when the sap starts to run. Both trees can take hard pruning well.
Thank you :) Same with apple? I've read that apple trees actually gets more vigorous after heavy pruning, but I've never heard of anyone stripping them bare.
Stephen Hayes has great videos on UA-cam about hard pruning apple trees! Best done in late winter / early spring.
I've hard pruned an apple tree in the summer. It did well, but it can be quite a shock for the tree. If your tree is vigorous, you can do it if you really want to. But never prune plum or cherry trees in the summer, they do bleed.
Wow.....! Long growth!!!!!!!
You should see it now! I never did get a chance to prune the garden this year, the trees are much taller than me! I will be pruning them this fall, when they loose their leaves. I'll make a video!
love ur garden
It's way overgrown at the moment, I'd better get at it soon!
Hey Nigel,
I am looking i to starting a little pre bonsai garden for some maples. I want to plant then around my greenhouse. What side do you think is best? South for full sun or one of the sides?
ArkcoVerse Maples planted in the ground seem to take full sun with no problems. Most of the sun burn on maple bonsai is caused by the roots getting to dry. This happens often mid summer when the roots have grown all spring and have filled the pot. There is very little room left for water! With no reserve water on hand for the leaves, the natural defense is to reduce the number of leaves. I think you will be safe to put them on the south side. You may need to water them if you get a really hot dry spell.
In some areas, Japanese maples in full sun will get leaf burn even when in the ground. These may also need protection from strong winds.
whens the next update on this garden?
The garden is in chaos at the moment! I've been too busy to get at it, but hopefully soon, I can tackle it again!
Hi Nigel,
What is the best time to defoliate a tree ?
The tree has to be very strong and have lots of stored energy in it to survive defoliation. For tropical trees, I like to do it mid summer. The first half of summer builds up the energy of the tree, and the conditions are good for the rest of the summer for the tree to recover. Hardy trees should be done late spring. The tree then has the whole summer to grow new leaves and store enough energy to survive the winter and the spring that follows. Partial defoliation is recommended over total defoliation. Total defoliation is a risky procedure, the tree may weaken and could possibly die. Everything may look good with the tree until fall, but it may not survive as it won't have enough sugars stored up from the summer. If you do defoliate, it should be done only once every 4 years or so.
Have you lost any ash trees to the emerald ash borer on your property?
All the Ash trees in our city have been cut down or inoculated. All the inoculated have since died. I do have my Ash bonsai in the front yard and so far it is doing really well. It may be the last of the many!
what is the company of your pruners?
They are Fiskars.....
www.canadiantire.ca/en/pdp/fiskars-professional-bypass-pruner-0596115p.html
Is the soil amended in any way?
I add my old bonsai soil to the garden by just spreading it on top. I do hope to re do the entire garden some day, but first I'll have to work on removing the trees. I hardly got any time for the front garden this year, so much to do, so little time!
haha, it's the worst when you pinch your finger on the cutters XD
I agree!
I hate when one pinches oneself with the secateurs. I do it all the time with my small sharp ones..painful.
I agree, I hate getting the little blood blisters, they last for days!