Great video! What makes you feel so good about the 2-liner is the fact that they are more stable, because the towpoint moves to the front of the A attachments when pushing speedbar. On 3 lines that doesn't happen aparently.
Thank you very much for the explanations. I am actually considering moving to a 2-liner in 1-2 years so all this info is highly relevant! Many thanks again!
Hello big thanks to you for the vid and yes as you said at the end of the video, the 2 liners EN-C is here! I just ordered the new Ozone Photon. I jump from Delta 4 with who I had really really good feeling to this 2-liners but Im sure I will love this new experience.
2 роки тому
Great video I discovered a bit late, but worth listening for me! Thanks Ari
As long as most of you've said is true, I think for a 16min video dedicated solely to 2-liners there is just too many misconceptions. There are multiple good points about current 2-liners (B-risers feeling), but most of it simply applies to any hight AR wing. And in fact there are END 3-liners, with higher A.R. than 2-liners. Other properties, can be often accounted to a stiff profile, and not exactly having 2 risers. A 2-liner, by definition, doesn't even need to have less lines than a 3-liner. Especially, wiht many 2-liners having higher galleries spread in 2. A 2-liner can be passively safer, than a 3-liner, there are just too many variables, independent of risers count. Also you seem to have in mind moslty CCC 2-liners, meanwhile currently the Alps are taken over by lightweight EN D 2-liners like Zeolite or OXA3 and those are very different wings than Enzo or Zeno. One thing that I'd add in terms of 2-liners safety is ability to fly against stronger valley winds. But what is also important is that those wings are generally harder to manage in spirals and often don't accept big ears nicely. They are also trickier stalling and stall can be induced easier. Last, but not least, ENC 2-liners are not a matter of technology, but mostly of certification regulations (thye need collapse lines).
I love you man your explanations are so unique. Here's a question about aspect ratio. We have the lowest aspect ratio which is approximately 1/1. I would call that a round parachute. I see one guy had a devil boy 13to1 aspect ratio. Is there anybody who jumps ahead of somebody else, on performance with a higher aspect ratio?
Hi Ari, with the 200hours every class (which sounds very conservative for a European ;-) ), do you think one is ready for a Two-Liner C after 200 hours on EN-B, or would you rather fly a "normal" C first and then change to a two-liner? Thanks for your insights :)
Hello! Im planning to buy B+ in the middle of range weight. I'm comming from B- (hook 2) top range weight. 100h every year aprox. Would you recommend? My objectives are starting in XC. Thanks a lot
@@AriintheAir Unlikely. Afaik the test crieriae for EN-compliance demand that it can be tested without folding lines. Also, you can't do a B-stall (well you can, but not a good idea) and inducing safe stall can be tricky (pre-pumping technique). There are other issues with the (a bit arbitrary) test portfolio too.
@@AriintheAir I loved flying my Zeno, unfortunately I was rather overloaded on the L size - things got rather acro on me flying in Brazil a few times... Things feel a bit softer on the Enzo XL 😋
I have zero hours in any paraglider. If I happen to buy a 2-liner glider. I'll fly it (with zero hours). I taught myself to fly hang gliders and did just fine (way harder to control than a paraglider).
Thanks Ari. I'd be very interested to hear your opinion on the new era of 2 liners coming into C category. The Volt 4 for example claims to be a fun to fly and a solid C.
Good question. A lot of V4's are being offloaded (two near me after not many flights) .... several reasons but the one I keep hearing about is lack of turning ability. It also doesn't really appear to add much in terms of performance. I have hundreds of hours on several Fusions (a 2/ liner hybrid) and it's a match but a lot more comfortable - a really great halfway house.
I got my first real (> 30%) collapse on the Zeno after 550 hours of flying it ... it was an absolute non issue. In SIV however, a two liner is much more work and you have to be much more precise! The best thing with 2-liners for me is that they give you time to react before they collapse. It doesn't just go (99% of the time), it normally starts shooting first and while it shoots, you get time to react.
I'm not experienced much, but i fly a Gin Bonanza 3 - 2-liner and only for soaring along the Dutch dunes, I love it. But then maybe this is an easy two-liner..
" haven't taken an accelerated collapse yet..." When it happens there is, will be no longer any justification to claim 2 liners are safer than a lower rated paraglider. That big event has happened to me 3 times, once on 2008 Airwave FR 3 3 line race wing resulted in reserve ride, once on Enzo 2 XS, once on R10 3 S recovered, all 3 events were violent immediate onset, main unloaded, happened at trim in a climb on the FR, Enzo 2 XS, in level flight on the R10 3 S.
I’m not even close to thinking about getting anything beyond my first wing but it is definitely interesting to understand what the advantages and disadvantages are and how they are designed
On my first Zeno free flight, those words you said rang so true. Ironically, they were my first utterings about the glider, "I can feel the air like I never have before!" Great video as usual Ari!
Hi, actually 2 liners gliders are not necessarily more snaky than 3 liners. Most of them have a more solid feeling in the air than 3 liners. The problem of flying them is that due to the extra loading that they have per square inch in the sail (compared to 3 liners), when you get a collapse, it is more powerfull and dynamic, also the recovery, if you add up the rigid foil reinforcement the situation can get complicated. Another thing is that when you pilot with the Bs, you need to apply some pressure in order to feel the air and it is harder to pull than the brakes, so not necessarilly is more fluid, I would say it is more direct to the canopy when you are on bar. One of the reasons that 2 liners go better when flying into the wind and in turbulence, is that they fly with more wing load and more rigid foil, so the glider it is more solid so it doesnt loose the shape as easy as a less loaded glider, also 2 liners have less lines, so you have less drag and resistance against wind.
How about flying enD two liner on the coast on nice days, with sandy beach landings available... It's all fun no negatives ey (with 400hours experience)
Thanks for your vids as always! Interesting way you show and I am interested in seeing new technology. Anyhow, I stick with my Blacklight 2 so far, still love this glider ;) could test it furhter in Annecy some weeks ago 😅... Hope you can still work out on really helping vids. Thanks!
It's always funny to read why people think one or another glider is so safe like "i only had one collapse last 500h"...so therefore it's must be very safe. It's says really NOTHING about the safety. It might be just a result of very good piloting, very well chosen flying sites (and routes), well chosen flying days or a combination, maybe with a bit of luck also. Not to mention that few pilots flying such wings are really using the full performance in strong conditions
Nice video. Lots of thoughts I've had myself. Happy on my enC bgd Cure 60hrs so far. 240 hrs total. Been thinking about a newer bgd Cure2 but so happy with my current glider, wanting more hrs before a performance increase and ive been thinking "tech is moving fast, cure2 can do 60kmh and now there are 3/2 liner hybrids, soon enough 2 liner enC will be a thing." So good yo hear the same thoughts (more informed too) from you. I'm holding out for that step up in tech. In the meantime I'm enjoying my Cure. Keep up the great work
Amazing that no one have mentioned the M7, what are your thoughts about it? It really flies different from a a normal ENC, but feels way safer IMHO, I don't know if Zeno will be my next glider, I feel like can buy one M7 again after 200-300 hr on mine, and Maybe repeat that several times. and then we will see what technology bring us in a couple of years. I have 10 yrs flying, amazing advance in tech. Great content by the way!
The difference between Zeno and Enzo is , that the Enzo shows more the air movement. This ist really great in lowsave situations and its more fun. A pleasure to feel how the glider pitch into thermals and the glide angel, with the B riser steering with accelerator.
Great insights, thanks! I've got a little over 200h on my Queen2 and what you said about 3-liners on speed is so true! I usually fly 1/4-1/2 on speed where it's all fine but darn when I go full speed through a turbulent air (like on a final glide) face slaps come from nowhere :D I could probably be more responsive on C-lines but it's good to hear that it is hard. I can't wait to give some 2-liner a try :) Have you ever tried these hybrids 2.5-liners like Flow Fusion?
I fly 7 years, my first wings are en B low (HOOK 4) and i zion 17, try to fly in en C , in some wings( sky, delta 2 and other) now i buy a mantra m6 to fly at the beach to begin First impression is very good, in soaring is very safe the a gentel ferrari, amazing wing
@@AvengerIl whenever I can and the forecast leaves, the mantra will fly Amazing wing at least wet only fly at the dunes with nice forecast, wind's in between 11km/h and 35km/h, maybee
I haven't flown the LT1, but have a friend who has one. He says its cool, but a pretty pitchy and spicy glider. Sounds like the proto that I'm recieving is amazingly stable, so I'm looking forward to testing it out.
Nice video, explain Very well... Cheers from Brazil... I have flown a LT1 from Sol about 3 years now. Its pretty safe like a low enC but with ALL the advantages explained on the vídeo. You should try it, its unveliveable!
I have an advance pi one. It is an ENB two liner. It also has an extended weight range for an ENC certification. Basically 85 to 99 kilos is ENB while 100 to 115 kilos is ENC. It's a fairly old wing with lightweight fabric and unsheathed lines. Are you telling me that nobody has made two liners like this unless they are end or uncertified since the pi. I know the pi two and three are both three liners. Am I missing something? By the way I fly it at about 95 kilos and it is one of the fastest most responsive gliders I have ever flown it almost feels like a mini wing. I love that it has trimmers because not only is it already fast which means I can launch in slightly higher winds with trims in than most people can on their normal wing but I can also set it to trims out which is actually equal to about half speed bar with trims in which gives me even more launch speed capability. This means when other pilots are getting plucked off the ground I can be standing there kiting with no issue with my trimmers out. And when I'm ready to fly I just yank those trimmers in and it Yanks me right off the ground. I absolutely love this wing and haven't found a modern analog of it. It does not have an excessive aspect ratio though it is slightly higher than most ENB.
Modern 3liner with BC control don't break the airfoil when pulling the Cs. It's working great and very smooth on the latest C gliders. On the other hand most 2liners have 4 attachments on the canopy. So they are more like 2riser gliders. This will also affect the profile when accelerated
Best watched at 1.75 speed.
Thanks for making your videos. Great info.
Great video! What makes you feel so good about the 2-liner is the fact that they are more stable, because the towpoint moves to the front of the A attachments when pushing speedbar. On 3 lines that doesn't happen aparently.
Thank you very much for the explanations. I am actually considering moving to a 2-liner in 1-2 years so all this info is highly relevant! Many thanks again!
My pleasure! Consider supporting this channel via patreon! www.patreon.com/ariintheair
Hello big thanks to you for the vid and yes as you said at the end of the video, the 2 liners EN-C is here! I just ordered the new Ozone Photon. I jump from Delta 4 with who I had really really good feeling to this 2-liners but Im sure I will love this new experience.
Great video I discovered a bit late, but worth listening for me! Thanks Ari
As long as most of you've said is true, I think for a 16min video dedicated solely to 2-liners there is just too many misconceptions. There are multiple good points about current 2-liners (B-risers feeling), but most of it simply applies to any hight AR wing. And in fact there are END 3-liners, with higher A.R. than 2-liners. Other properties, can be often accounted to a stiff profile, and not exactly having 2 risers. A 2-liner, by definition, doesn't even need to have less lines than a 3-liner. Especially, wiht many 2-liners having higher galleries spread in 2. A 2-liner can be passively safer, than a 3-liner, there are just too many variables, independent of risers count.
Also you seem to have in mind moslty CCC 2-liners, meanwhile currently the Alps are taken over by lightweight EN D 2-liners like Zeolite or OXA3 and those are very different wings than Enzo or Zeno. One thing that I'd add in terms of 2-liners safety is ability to fly against stronger valley winds. But what is also important is that those wings are generally harder to manage in spirals and often don't accept big ears nicely. They are also trickier stalling and stall can be induced easier. Last, but not least, ENC 2-liners are not a matter of technology, but mostly of certification regulations (thye need collapse lines).
I love you man your explanations are so unique. Here's a question about aspect ratio. We have the lowest aspect ratio which is approximately 1/1. I would call that a round parachute. I see one guy had a devil boy 13to1 aspect ratio. Is there anybody who jumps ahead of somebody else, on performance with a higher aspect ratio?
I've just got my paragliding licence and cant wait to get one of these gliders.Zeno looks like a cool wing to fly.
It might be a little while. Enjoy the journey :)
That's the 5th video relatable on my level of flying. Great job.
"Shut up and take my $5"
Hahhahaha! I'll see you on patreon my man
well said! 👍👍👍 thank you!
Hi Ari, with the 200hours every class (which sounds very conservative for a European ;-) ), do you think one is ready for a Two-Liner C after 200 hours on EN-B, or would you rather fly a "normal" C first and then change to a two-liner? Thanks for your insights :)
Your prediction was right 😂
Hello! Im planning to buy B+ in the middle of range weight. I'm comming from B- (hook 2) top range weight. 100h every year aprox. Would you recommend? My objectives are starting in XC. Thanks a lot
The new lounches advance sigma 12 and niviuk Artik R both C standard and 2 liner.
whats your idea with C standard on 2 liner?
what are your predictions: will 2-liners ever arrive in the b-category?
My prediction..... Yes. 3 years.
It’s not even able to be in C category but i hope it will one day
@@AriintheAir Unlikely. Afaik the test crieriae for EN-compliance demand that it can be tested without folding lines. Also, you can't do a B-stall (well you can, but not a good idea) and inducing safe stall can be tricky (pre-pumping technique). There are other issues with the (a bit arbitrary) test portfolio too.
If you check the test sheets you'd be amazed how many C and B some 2-liner have in many categories.
Still waiting to see your thoughts on the proto sent to you ;)
Do you think they'll ever be a b-rated to liner?
Houdini on high B's as well Ari =)
Fucking Houdini's! =}
Here it is: Airdesign Volt 4, 2 line EN C .......
It's not the 2 line rows that make hot wings tricky, rather their high aspect ratio.
So much easier to control a 2 liner (I fly an Enzo3)
I'm looking forward to trying an Enzo, but I'll put a few hundred hours on this Zeno first.
@@AriintheAir I loved flying my Zeno, unfortunately I was rather overloaded on the L size - things got rather acro on me flying in Brazil a few times... Things feel a bit softer on the Enzo XL 😋
@@cabanford I mean, the bigger the better! I had a MS and I moved up to the ML to fly with the Exoceat and it glides better and is easier to handle
@@AriintheAir These wings overloaded are nasty 😋
@@cabanford Same wing here, in deep blue/white :)
I have zero hours in any paraglider.
If I happen to buy a 2-liner glider. I'll fly it (with zero hours).
I taught myself to fly hang gliders and did just fine (way harder to control than a paraglider).
Thanks Ari. I'd be very interested to hear your opinion on the new era of 2 liners coming into C category. The Volt 4 for example claims to be a fun to fly and a solid C.
Good question. A lot of V4's are being offloaded (two near me after not many flights) .... several reasons but the one I keep hearing about is lack of turning ability. It also doesn't really appear to add much in terms of performance. I have hundreds of hours on several Fusions (a 2/ liner hybrid) and it's a match but a lot more comfortable - a really great halfway house.
I got my first real (> 30%) collapse on the Zeno after 550 hours of flying it ... it was an absolute non issue. In SIV however, a two liner is much more work and you have to be much more precise! The best thing with 2-liners for me is that they give you time to react before they collapse. It doesn't just go (99% of the time), it normally starts shooting first and while it shoots, you get time to react.
Hahaha! Thats a long time without a collapse! I got my first one within 20 hours, in a crazy fucking spot in Guatemala. Popped right out!
Accelerated they go big and twist u often… so learn to handle the twist up… simple
why not talk about fast descending compared with C-gliders (Big ears, spiral)? Disadvantage?
I'm not experienced much, but i fly a Gin Bonanza 3 - 2-liner and only for soaring along the Dutch dunes, I love it. But then maybe this is an easy two-liner..
But if the trim speed is same for both, but a twolinear have a more good glide, that means a sink rate of twolinear is more smaller, no?
" haven't taken an accelerated collapse yet..." When it happens there is, will be no longer any justification to claim 2 liners are safer than a lower rated paraglider. That big event has happened to me 3 times, once on 2008 Airwave FR 3 3 line race wing resulted in reserve ride, once on Enzo 2 XS, once on R10 3 S recovered, all 3 events were violent immediate onset, main unloaded, happened at trim in a climb on the FR, Enzo 2 XS, in level flight on the R10 3 S.
Good presentation, top sharing,thanks..get to the chopper ,an Hey Lee cop-peter,,,helicop-peter.
If glide at trim is almost the same on a C, then surely landing should not be more difficult in a small space.
I’m not even close to thinking about getting anything beyond my first wing but it is definitely interesting to understand what the advantages and disadvantages are and how they are designed
Word
I love nerding out about gliders!
Hello, where is the video about 2liner enC :))
My advance pi1 is 2 liner. Old af. Lightweight fabric... And EN B. What are you talking about only on EN D and soon C? It's not even new tech
An Advance Pi is not a 2 liner.
There are already 2liners which could easily be Cs. But the EN doesn't allow it because of folding lines.
dear santa, please, B rated single skin 2 liner....
Really great analysis and most informative. Not thinking about getting a 2 liner but really great to find out what's it all about :-)
Your explanation of the difference between 2 liners and other gliders is spot on, clear and informative video
Geti G!!!!! My man!!! Thank you! So nice to see you here! Love your videos bro!
@@AriintheAir Cheers bro & likewise!
On my first Zeno free flight, those words you said rang so true. Ironically, they were my first utterings about the glider, "I can feel the air like I never have before!" Great video as usual Ari!
Thanks Kyle! Hard to go back!
Buy Niviuk Klimber 2. Easy
Hi, actually 2 liners gliders are not necessarily more snaky than 3 liners. Most of them have a more solid feeling in the air than 3 liners. The problem of flying them is that due to the extra loading that they have per square inch in the sail (compared to 3 liners), when you get a collapse, it is more powerfull and dynamic, also the recovery, if you add up the rigid foil reinforcement the situation can get complicated. Another thing is that when you pilot with the Bs, you need to apply some pressure in order to feel the air and it is harder to pull than the brakes, so not necessarilly is more fluid, I would say it is more direct to the canopy when you are on bar. One of the reasons that 2 liners go better when flying into the wind and in turbulence, is that they fly with more wing load and more rigid foil, so the glider it is more solid so it doesnt loose the shape as easy as a less loaded glider, also 2 liners have less lines, so you have less drag and resistance against wind.
Great explanation!
Nice explanation!
Please talk about photon!
How about flying enD two liner on the coast on nice days, with sandy beach landings available... It's all fun no negatives ey (with 400hours experience)
Thanks for your vids as always! Interesting way you show and I am interested in seeing new technology. Anyhow, I stick with my Blacklight 2 so far, still love this glider ;) could test it furhter in Annecy some weeks ago 😅... Hope you can still work out on really helping vids. Thanks!
You're so welcome! Consider supporting the channel via patreon! www.patreon.com/ariintheair
Hello! You should talk about new 2 liner C class! It would be so useful! Thanks !🎉
It's always funny to read why people think one or another glider is so safe like "i only had one collapse last 500h"...so therefore it's must be very safe. It's says really NOTHING about the safety. It might be just a result of very good piloting, very well chosen flying sites (and routes), well chosen flying days or a combination, maybe with a bit of luck also. Not to mention that few pilots flying such wings are really using the full performance in strong conditions
Nice video. Lots of thoughts I've had myself. Happy on my enC bgd Cure 60hrs so far. 240 hrs total. Been thinking about a newer bgd Cure2 but so happy with my current glider, wanting more hrs before a performance increase and ive been thinking
"tech is moving fast, cure2 can do 60kmh and now there are 3/2 liner hybrids, soon enough 2 liner enC will be a thing."
So good yo hear the same thoughts (more informed too) from you. I'm holding out for that step up in tech. In the meantime I'm enjoying my Cure.
Keep up the great work
Your name is awesome Man 🤣
Thanks brother!
Cure2 , won't fly 60kmh
You are in love!💪
Can't wait for enC's 2 liners. They're almost ready. New Year's coming :D
Amazing that no one have mentioned the M7, what are your thoughts about it? It really flies different from a a normal ENC, but feels way safer IMHO, I don't know if Zeno will be my next glider, I feel like can buy one M7 again after 200-300 hr on mine, and Maybe repeat that several times. and then we will see what technology bring us in a couple of years. I have 10 yrs flying, amazing advance in tech. Great content by the way!
In the high B-Cathegorie you have a B/C steering system, there you have the same effects as on the 2-Liners
The difference between Zeno and Enzo is , that the Enzo shows more the air movement. This ist really great in lowsave situations and its more fun. A pleasure to feel how the glider pitch into thermals and the glide angel, with the B riser steering with accelerator.
Can't wait to try one!
Hi Maier, how's Kella lately? Good weather for FAI's? ;-)
@@spartafly3014 just a little, but not really good
Nice video, very explicative and complete. What do you think of the two liner Swing Sphere RS?
Thanks for sharing Ari...makes a lot of sense going into 2 liners.
I've had a number of people that say the same thing about 2 liners
You are so passionate! It s great to see a person who lives his path☀️🙏😊❤️
Good stuff Ari.................thanks!
Rippa!!
@@577buttfan Jersey………….
You bet! Thanks for watchin johnny
Great insights, thanks!
I've got a little over 200h on my Queen2 and what you said about 3-liners on speed is so true! I usually fly 1/4-1/2 on speed where it's all fine but darn when I go full speed through a turbulent air (like on a final glide) face slaps come from nowhere :D I could probably be more responsive on C-lines but it's good to hear that it is hard. I can't wait to give some 2-liner a try :)
Have you ever tried these hybrids 2.5-liners like Flow Fusion?
Yeah man, check out my review of the flow fusion and 'The Streamer Incident' !!!
Thank you Ari. Really really good explanation.
I have heard and felt the same thing. I love my Zeno and would not go back, for XC.
I've been saying, Zeno Power for life!
Thank You so Much for allá the content. You are awesome!!!
EN B 2 liner?!?!?!?!
excellent explanation - thanks from a en-b pilot 👍🏻
I fly 7 years, my first wings are en B low (HOOK 4) and i zion 17, try to fly in en C , in some wings( sky, delta 2 and other) now i buy a mantra m6 to fly at the beach to begin
First impression is very good, in soaring is very safe the a gentel ferrari, amazing wing
How's that working out? Just got an enD 2liner (For dunes) after 3-4x100s of hours on high B and few dozen on enC
@@AvengerIl whenever I can and the forecast leaves, the mantra will fly
Amazing wing at least wet only fly at the dunes with nice forecast, wind's in between 11km/h and 35km/h, maybee
Can't wait for my new 2-liner EN-C... whenever it comes. It's gonna be like instant buy.
Buy it from me! lol! Its right around the corner. Prototype glider just got shipped to me!
@@AriintheAir Oh, you definitely need to upload a review, that's for sure! I also hope for Nitinol to spread across the whole PG industry.
Good
Ari in love 😄
Thanks for your insight!
Glad it was helpful!
So what is your opinion about Sol paragliders LT1 ?
I haven't flown the LT1, but have a friend who has one. He says its cool, but a pretty pitchy and spicy glider. Sounds like the proto that I'm recieving is amazingly stable, so I'm looking forward to testing it out.
@@AriintheAir acting like en C they say. ...... hmmmmm. .... hard to believe.
Nice video, explain Very well... Cheers from Brazil... I have flown a LT1 from Sol about 3 years now. Its pretty safe like a low enC but with ALL the advantages explained on the vídeo. You should try it, its unveliveable!
Super great explanation!
Glad it was helpful!
Great video Ari!
Thank you Patrick!!
I have an advance pi one. It is an ENB two liner. It also has an extended weight range for an ENC certification. Basically 85 to 99 kilos is ENB while 100 to 115 kilos is ENC. It's a fairly old wing with lightweight fabric and unsheathed lines. Are you telling me that nobody has made two liners like this unless they are end or uncertified since the pi. I know the pi two and three are both three liners. Am I missing something? By the way I fly it at about 95 kilos and it is one of the fastest most responsive gliders I have ever flown it almost feels like a mini wing. I love that it has trimmers because not only is it already fast which means I can launch in slightly higher winds with trims in than most people can on their normal wing but I can also set it to trims out which is actually equal to about half speed bar with trims in which gives me even more launch speed capability. This means when other pilots are getting plucked off the ground I can be standing there kiting with no issue with my trimmers out. And when I'm ready to fly I just yank those trimmers in and it Yanks me right off the ground. I absolutely love this wing and haven't found a modern analog of it. It does not have an excessive aspect ratio though it is slightly higher than most ENB.
Modern 3liner with BC control don't break the airfoil when pulling the Cs. It's working great and very smooth on the latest C gliders.
On the other hand most 2liners have 4 attachments on the canopy. So they are more like 2riser gliders. This will also affect the profile when accelerated
The pregnant pauses in your delivery are way to much.
As a motor pilot only I learned alot thanks dude!!!!