HOW TO ADD TORQUE FOR TOWING. HOW CAN I INCREASE LOW-SPEED TORQUE FROM MY 454 BBC? WILL BOOST HELP?
Вставка
- Опубліковано 17 вер 2024
- HOW CAN I ADD MORE LOW SPEED TORQUE TO MY 454 BBC? CAN I RUN A SMALL 174 BLOWER ON MY BBC? WHAT ABOUT AN EVEN BIGGER 420 BLOWER? WHAT CAM SHOULD I RUN TO INCREASE LOW SPEED TORQUE? WHAT INTAKE SHOULD I RUN TO ADD LOW SPEED TORQUE? WILL 049 OVAL PORT HEADS WORK WELL TO ENHANCE TORQUE PRODUCTION? CHECK OUT PART 1 OF THE 2-PART SERIES ON THE BBC HUNT FOR GRUNT. THIS VIDEO COVERS THE BUILD UP OF THE NATURALLY APSIRATED 468 BBC DESIGNED SOLELY WITH LOW-SPEED TORQUE IN MIND TO PROVIDE MOTIVATION OFR A 1977 CREW-CAB DUALIE TOW MONSTER. TO ADD EVEN MORE TORQUE, I FIRST ADDED A SMALL 174 BLOWER THEN AN EVEN LARGER 420 BLOWER!
You know it's time to rebuild your motor when it has the power of a 4, runs on 6, and has the gas mileage of an 8.
Remember the Cadillac 8-6-4??
Couldnt have said it better
Glad to see some roots blowers getting some love. Some people dismiss them as to old school. For a street car, they drive fantastic! Instant boost, and a big flat torque curve! It made Me a believer in boost a long time ago.
Very cool. I always thought one of those baby blowers on a stock 454 would make a good tow rig.
Nice! Even the small blower made good power.
A good engine is a nice thing to have
Cortney and I tested a Cadillac 500 yesterday .. grunt motor 661 ft lbs at 3900 rpm 574 ft lbs at 1900 rpm all NA
nice
@scotthatch4548
Installed inna vehicle?
MPG?
@@xmo552 look up farm truck
So glad you made a video on this. I google searched the article a week or two ago when you first mentioned it in a live stream and couldn't find it. Thanks Richard!
I think you were about right on the money with the 454. my build would have been similar, except NA. For a tow rig you want reliability, once you get above 550ft/lb you start to break things, quickly. in a truck, the corporate 14bolt is a beast and can take a beating, but an automatic trans would have given up pretty quick at that power level. so, my build would have been all NA. I would have tried to start with a 502 BBC, 9.5:1 compression, peanut port heads, I would have used the Summit Racing Sum-1301, 218/228@50 502/501 lift and a 114-degree lob separation for better vacuum for breaks and a better idle and off idle power for towing. kept the standard performer and used a Q-jet carb. better throttle response for the smaller primaries and will get better gas mileage in stop and go traffic and while cruising. I would have spent some money on a built TH700R4 with the .70 overdrive for better fuel economy and towing. the TH700R4 also has a 3.06:1 first gear. so, it can pull those heavy loads just off idle. also good long tube headers and a dual high flow cat exhaust to get the air our and still stay EPA friendly. making pulls on a dyno is one thing, building a reliable engine that is easy to live with day after day when towing a load is another.
I would not trust a 700r4 at any build stage in a tow rig with that much torque…
Shad if I did that... what mpg could I expect ?
for the amount of cash getting tossed around, a THM400 with a Gear Vendor or other overdrive would be a 6 speed versus the 3 speed with OD and you won't need an expensive lock up torque converter unless you want that for highway. just sayin'.
I have a 69 c10 with a 700r4 a qjet with a small port 350. Gets around 20mpg on highway. Building a peanut port 454 and a 496 and sticking with the qjet. Exited to see if I can achieve high teens mpg
I have tried 700r4 in heavy towing applications and they wouldn’t last in a Crew cab dually. One left me walking after 100 miles of hilly terrain. Turbo 400 with gear vendor and huge cooler was reliable and gave me zero grief till I sold truck
Ok , bloodviking chimes in
On a normally aspirated engine cubic inches is key. Build the biggest c I d motor you can. Or at least stroke the engine you have. Mild stroker don't cost much do build if you go with a cast steel crank. And they are very strong. A 496 bbc isn't much more to build then a 454. Use a fairly small dur cam. Otherwise gas mileage will change. I used to build engines that as soon as they started to lose low end tork I knew it was time to go to a smaller cam. Better heads would help. More compression may not be advised as 94 octane gas costs more than 87. Longer rods and fast burn combustion chambers will allow for more compression that will bump up power a bit. You would be surprised how going from 10.5 1 pump gas to 12.5.1 gives about a lousey 20 hp for having an engine that won't run on pump gas now being a wrong move. I would think you could tow just about anything with about 650 to 850 fpt. A supercharger will add power all around but the gas mileage is going to go way down. Especially with 2 carbs or 2 throttle bodies. With one aftermarket stand alone fuel injection kit I could see a bit more power being made. Perhaps having a 30 hp increase. With a na engine a few tricks here and there will add up. Larger valves help. Keeping the rpms low is very important for fuel economy. 4.11 gear would be nice in a towing vehicle but even with o.d. but a bit much on rpm. I'd suggest a 3.50 gear. Even a 3.73 is very bad w.o. o.d. if you are on a very small budget I'd have to suggest a junk yard 454, a 274 dur cam, oval port heads and stay at the 400 to 450 hp level. Once you add a bigger cam, turbos, high compression the towing motor will become a gas sucking motor.
it's always funny when someone brags about the amount of torque their towing rig has and then you ask, "so, what's the plan for stopping all that mass you think you're going to be able to pull?". and forget what their trailer suspension is going to do with a cross wind.
sometimes, it's just good to make a second trip :)
Were limited to towing 3500kg here in UK on standard car licence. So a 2.5-3l diesel is best for us. Saying that I do have a 350 a 454 and a 496 just for fun.
@@Harrybowles1969 26,000LBS GVWR is the limit for a "standard car license" and an RV is exempt from any weight limit in Texas. Its downright scary some of the junk on the road honestly, especially on an 80mph speed limit highway.
You hot the nail on the head man.. so true with everything u said...alot of people think there are magical cams that are built to make more torque...when I reality like u said you just end up losing torque down low with a heavier cam after a certain extent
Thanks, this is the exact kind of content that I have been asking about.
I've been looking for more. More than zero tow motor builds that I have seen anywhere. I would love to see a big block build where you try and approximate a diesel where you get the HP and torque all below 3k revs.
Yes please
And MPG
you can't do that effectively-you need to just get a diesel. You can make good torque in that range however as shown (just not peak hp)
Ok F' it I'm going back to steam.
💪😂💦💥💨
I know modern Subaru turbo fours can make silly down low torque and HP. I was thinking single or twin fast spool turbos could possibly cram alot of air way down low might work. Probably fall flat on their face by 5000 RPM or so but it would be interesting to see anyways.
A good idea for torque is a cam with around 196-210 @50 with around .035 "-.045 " thou lift at TDC for inlet and exhaust cams .
that is a huge spread
Now we’re talkin!
You're talking about "down low" while starting pulls at 3000 rpm. Down low means 1500, 1800 rpm. Off idle with a stock converter. And the way you make power there is long runners and a low duration, tight LSA cam with an IVC point @ .050 of like 15° abdc. Like a 185/195 @ .050 cam with a 104 LSA. That will increase cranking pressure a bunch and make an engine very torquey off idle.
no one is at WOT off idle
@@richardholdener1727 No one has ever hit the gas from idle? Not sure about that one boss... And what about part throttle? The dynamics of the cam should apply at part throttle the same just with less cylinder filling
@@richardholdener1727ever been stuck in the mud? Ever had any redneck friends? Chevy's handle WOT from idle all the time. They aren't like the low torque Ford engines 🤷
Would need a bang up cooling setup for that, separate coolers for everything.
I get 12 mpg towing with my 1997 C2500 454 Gen 6 with its stock 4L80E and 4.10 gears in the 14-bolt Differential. Drive yet 70-100 mph on 87 octane
That's damn good for an old truck. Better than my prior truck, which was an 04 5.3L Half ton
The overdrive is helping you
That would be a awesome motor for a dually
More awesome big block chevy content is always bitchen but can't wait for the 496 build and are you going to add tunnel ram to it? You and Freiburger have got me hooked on the big block tunnel ram 496 and I thank you for that.
That’s how I have built a couple of 454 tow motors, the old 049 castings are a great head for that. Did you up the valve sizes to 2.19/1.88? Yours is nearly identical even down to the cam selection; a Crane with 0.500” lift on both I&E with a little more duration is what I used. Fun to see the blower combos on it. Had a 177 on a 400 sbc in my old 77 3/4 ton. Don’t know if B&M makes the megablower anymore. Basically a 6-71 as I’m sure you are aware. Never had the opportunity to play with one of those. Thanks for sharing!
Holley/Weiand/B&M don't make ANY roots-style superchargers any more. All gone, sadly.
How did the 177 on the 400 do in your truck? I'm thinking of doing exactly that on my 81 1 ton.
@@xmo552 The 177 was a hoot! Those square bodies aren’t that heavy, at least compared with today’s trucks. You’ll certainly enjoy it.
@@sddnhad
I need it to tow and I need MPG.
Front and center !! 468 in the cowboy caddy !!!
What was the fuel consumption with the small supercharger and big??
Im actually thinking of supercharging my 300… but that will be way later… need to maximize NA performance before boost!
From my limited knowledge of BB Chevs I think your build was ideal - or at least pretty much what I would have suggested. Fact is the 70s 454 was a bit of a pig and you could really improve on it, as you could with all that 70s malaise stuff. The specific output was so horrid it could only go up if you poked around under the hood. Not so much the case nowadays. And a supercharger or two - well heck yeah.
Right on
Richard. It can be noticed the peak power numbers with the blowers start to creap up to the level of the peak torque, which did not happen naturally aspirated. I wonder is this a common phenomenon using blowers or does it happen with turbos as well?
yes with a rising boost curve-and a short runner intake used on the blower
This is what you had before modern diesel .
Wonder what gallons per mile that would get towing?
Would have been a great tow motor NA
Only 5:00 in but if the goal was purely towing tq 1 7/8" headers are too big, 049 heads, while they'll work fine, ported ones in particular are too big. Thats why the TQ peak is over 3500 rpm even with a tiny cam. For something to tow with I wouldnt want the TQ up that high in the rpms.
With a mild set of peanut port heads and 1 5/8" or 1 3/4" headers (the latter being off the shelf size), itll make more in the lower end and about the same up top.
1 5/8 headers on a BBC? We did a header test and small headers did not make more low speed torque
I did a quick search and the headers size videos I found were 1 3/4 vs 1 7/8 for hotter LS motors. From what I understand LS motors are happy with bigger headers then typical.
My 468 has a Crane 210/210-110 with a Performer intake, mildly ported peanut ports and 1 3/4 headers and peaks about 3200rpm TQ (vs 36-3700rpm) and is about the same up top, apart from not hanging on much after peak hp
Hey Richard
Have u or anyone u know used a speedmaster engine block.
Iv done some searching but nothing really out there about SM blocks. Some people say junk no good others say good but nobody thats actually owned one lol!!
Idk just curious always looking for a cheaper way to build power.
Thanks
Josh
I HAVE USED THEM
Would this upcoming segment be relative to a 493 mopar?
Boost doesn’t care about brand right. Just pushes up what you’re already making
yep
Holley/Weiand/B&M have discontinued their entire roots-style supercharger line. Not a single thing on their website any more but service/replacement parts. Sorry.
running comments any quench in the rebuild? blowers work most of my builds were either trucks/ motorhomes or off shore Cigarette boats looks good looking fwd to part 2 cometic gaskets coming? studs? what rpm range are you shooting for with new cam? done your trans yet? cheers
Does it Run on 87 octane gasoline Towing 10,000-20,000 pounds dead weight without Detonation and Running 70-100 mph nonstop in modern Highway Traffic without overheating and failures any ?
Modern Diesel trucks do it just on Biodiesel nothing more.
Boost and computers
@@xmo552 As long as it runs on 87 octane all the time.
@@brracing7861
I was referring to modern diesels
@@xmo552 Diesels are nice. Octane not a Factor much.
@@brracing7861 why would you waste your time on 87? Engine built for 91-93 usually adds enough economy to pay for the higher cost. Then again my 11:1 383 I tow with in my Express van runs great on E85. I make 520 tq at 3,000 rpm on E85.
A Healthy Rat is Perennial Tow Engine Favorite, NA or not.
I think the 420 blower was sold by B&M.
got a 14 72? id almost pay to see that
I just saw an add for the Lunati Bootlegger Cam. Has crazy duration. Have you ever tested that cam? It’s pretty cheap cost wise so it makes me think it wouldn’t be great quality.
WHAT SPECIFIC CAM ARE YOU ASKING ABOUT-BOOTLEGGER IS A SERIES OF CAMS
@@richardholdener1727 the XXX11232
Where are the 2009 to current hemi 5.7 camshaft videos?
Thinking about the horsepower differential between the 174 and 420 with only a pound of boost difference. Could it be the 174 was being overdriven and heating the intake charge more? Did you take any temp readings below the blower(s)?
Add a cam and bump up the compression
That is a 177 blower
174 is for ford only
But very close and no big deal
And got 4 mpg time for a diesel!
What was the m.p.g. did it go up also?
Hey there,
I want to ask I’m having a difficulty to choose the right torque converter. I do have 1980 c25, with Ls2(L77) swapped on it. Big stage 4 cam by BTR, Holley 42Lb injectors. 7400 push roods , double springs titanium, mailing oil pump, 92mm Holley throttle with Denali 6.2 intake, k&n air filter, long tube headers by speed engineering 3” 1-7/8, car backed by Borla. twin walboro fuel line on 87 switch. 4l80e is the transmission that has a stage 3 upgraded kit from TCI holds up to 800 Hp. I want the right torque that shows the right power of the engine. I’m not planning to add anything such as a supercharge nor a turbo. I see it’s enough. The loop of the cam 111. Can you please advise me on the right torque converter, I see 3700 stall is too big for a truck.
Thanks for you upcoming response.
why the stage 4 cam?
@@richardholdener1727 I’m here to listen to your suggestions. I don’t want the power to decrease down.
I would pick a smaller cam
@@richardholdener1727 i find a stage 4 cam with 109 loop. But lower on the stall it opens between 2800-3200 stall. It’s BTR GEN III & IV TRUCK CAM - STAGE 4. Thanks for your help. I’m your biggest fan from Saudi Arabia 🙏🏽
So as NA what Cam size do you think would have been better for low end power and torque for pull over the one you picked 1st?
there isn't a cam to make much more low speed torque-just to shift it up higher
@@richardholdener1727 what would suggest in a 496 for towing? And thank you
watch part 2 that comes out today (but I would use a smaller cam)
What cam would you run in a caddy 500 for the most torque possible
An expensive one 💰💰💰. 😂😂😂. Have you looked at the price on those things?
You said magazine... I have that magazine article, the tittle hunt for grunt is why i clicked this. I still have my 79 c30 454.
What i loved was the mog on the smaller blower, the article said it got 12 mpg???? Is that right?
unloaded at 60 mph
Who here read that article? I did.
I did
I'm waiting for coyote turbo test 😢
The hidden secret is that anyone asking about tips to modify modern vehicles for towing will never do any of it
I have a 2nd gen firebird....toying with the idea of a boosted 454. But...the idea of horrible fuel mileage is kinda slowing me down. Thinking 4.8 boosted.....maybe. 😏😏🤔🤔
What kind of milage did you get with the small blower ?
6 towing
@@richardholdener1727 sounds about right how about without a trailer?
I wish I could mimic torque, reliability, and MPG of my 2004.5 5.9 Cummins but with a small or big block Chevy, Cad, or Buick maybe.
Personally I blame squirrels 🐿️
We don't to blame the squirrels, they are secret squirrels.
@@jhutch1470 😳
I bet the gas mileage was abysmal
In another reply he said 6 MPG while towing
I run more lift in my torque small blocks.
I have always wondered how well a good 500 caddy would do in a truck.
@@doomman700
That was the hot setup.... way before my time.
The 455 Oldsmobile big block was a torque monster in a Chevy truck.
@@freezinghotshot
Or the 455 Buick
@@doomman700 it does well, you can get an adaptor for chevy BB headers meant for trucks to cut down on costs. most "Crate engines" or build recipes are making 500 ft lbs or more at like 2,000 rpm.
Just add Cummins with a turbo. Nothing better for towing.
almost as good as a Buick.
Smh
I like your video's But.
Boost on a gasoline tow truck engine is illogical.
If you want torque and don't care about HP.
Don't add boost, just lower the gearing, and shift more often.
you spelled awesome wrong
What a silly thing to say