I'm really glad you draw attention to the Celibidache coda. As you rightly say, you hear everything (unlike many other versions), but what for me makes this stand out is its mesmerising quality. Whenever I hear this I am utterly transfixed; I can hardly breathe. And when you hear something like this you realise what a truly great composer Bruckner was: there is nothing quite like it in the entire orchestral repertoire.
This is an excellent explanation of the different versions, something which has always been confusing to me. I want to add my voice to others in saying that these videos are really enjoyable and informative and are a bright light during this stressful time.
Thank you very much for the message of support. I know, it's driving all of us crazy. We all need an outlet...thank you all for allowing me to do this.
the celibidache is one of the best things I've ever listened to in my life, it makes life worth-living, the pendulum-like finale, the horn solo, is the best you can listen to, today i was listening to the choral works conducted by jochum, thank you, you are the best.
I also remember the performance by Celi, at the Concertgebouw Amsterdam very well, and i was astonished by it and especially the final bars, he played it twice as slow as you normally heard it (at least thats how i experienced it), but it worked, it felt like a big machine slowly coming to life, and couldnt be stopped...unforgettable. I also remember Celi would give a short scream from time to time. Unique conductor..(also heard a fantastic 8th at the Concertgebouw)
Yeah, do many other works use that 2-flat - > 1 cadence? Or did composers think "yunno, Anton did that once, and anything else would be a pale comparison... "?
Thanks for an interesting video. When I heard the Honeck last year I was astounded. He also recorded a fantastic 9th. I was delighted that you picked the Barenboim/Chicago, too. I like that cycle. Agreed that the Celi must be heard...that finale is an experience. Jochum DG is my first pick and has been for a long time. Never warmed to the Bohm. The Wand/Berlin records are good, though. I like the Klemperer...I actually find that as I’ve gotten older I like Klemperer more and more. Go figure. I also like the Karajan on EMI, Muti/Berlin, Walter/Columbia Symphony, Dohnanyi/Cleveland, and Blomstedt/San Francisco. I really LOVE the Blomstedt/San Francisco Bruckner 6, too. A real gem! In fact, Blomstedt’s SACD cycle from Leipzig is an all around winner, as well...interpretation, sound, performance-all first rate. Much better than the ultra dull cycle from Nelsons, IMO.
Back some years ago, don't know what got into me, but the one single piece of music I would only ever listen to, for almost a period of two months, was the finale to Bruckner's 4th Symphony. Seems I kept discovering new things each and every time I listened. I couldn't believe it. That's how rich a reservoir of majesty it is.
Completely agree about Celibidache especially the coda which is miraculous, full of tension and just glorious when in erupts into the full sound. Bruckner 4 is one of my favourite symphonies.
Thank you for this video, really had fun listening! I can definitely go with Celibidache (my favourite), Jochum, Honeck and Wand. And the Brass in Barenboim is great, yet a bit too prominent and brassy for my taste. Other favorites of mine are Blomstedt live with Gewandhaus-Orchester, Skrowaczewski and Harnoncourt.
It is such a joy to listen to your inspired reviews being in the idyllic island of Santorini which seems like an ghostly place after the COVID-19 outbreak. In this respect the super slow Celibidache version seems more appropriate to the deserted island.
I loved Santorini when I visited it as a child. Always wished I could go back…but, in a way, I would think the absence of tourists would be somewhat refreshing. As long as you have music and UA-cam…
Hooray! David Hurwitz & more Bruckner! What's not to love? Back in the day ("the day" in my case being circa Thanksgiving weekend, 1974) I came home with my first Bruckner purchase: the Bruno Walter Columbia Odyssey LP of the B4. Fast forward almost a half century later, and I've now got umpteen hundred Bruckner recordings in their various Fassungen and editions... but who's counting? Yet I still have a soft spot for Bruno's B4. Yes, I know the entire performance is far too mellow, and that Walter was ill, and that the Columbia Symphony Orchestra was an undersized pick-up group that was made to sound like a full-size orchestra thanks to the warm acoustic properties of the American Legion Hall and the engineering acumen of John McClure... I still love that recording all the same, even if its appeal is mainly nostalgic. ~ John Drexel
wow I have been reading your reviews for years and just found this channel! keep up the reviews! I started off hating Celi but his interpretations have become a favorite over time!
Wand’s with Berlin is something out of this world. For me it hits the mark like no other in the coda were he emphasazies, in the finale, the bass line like no other and it sounds like a group of monks praying. Spinetingling.
My first experience, many years ago, was Jochum with the Berlin Philharmonic - and you knew you were in for something special from the very opening - the horn call above the shimmering strings is magical 🙂
THANK YOU for this, I just searched your Bruckner videos, because I'm seeing the 4th performed this weekend live for the first time ever (mainly because I want to go see Emmanuel Ax play Mozart's 18th piano concerto - the Bruckner 4 just happens to be on the bill). Thanks to you I now understand the challenges around the versions - and noticed my purchase was of the wrong version (yuck). I grabbed Honeck's immediately, and now can not only compare the two, I can figure out what the Philadelphia Orchestra is going to play on Saturday, and enjoy this more. Once again, sir, your channel is an amazing resource.
My favorite Bruckner! My sleeper is the ormandy, Philadelphia, my first Bruckner recording, still love it. I have to admit, I love the 1888 version myself. Guilty as charged, and he did ok the publication, didnt he ? Paul G
Sure he did. He paid for it himself, which means nothing actually when the music itself sounds so unidiomatic. Remember, we have two authentic editions that show us how the same passages ought to sound.
Another excellent discussion. We have and like all of the recommended versions you mention. Celibidache is incredibly compelling, and I'm glad you mention it, even though I agree it should not be one's sole Bruckner 4. For me the "ne plus ultra" is Wand/BPO, fantastically played and conducted. For a real adrenalin rush I play Barenboim/CSO. I look forward to a discussion of the eighth symphony and its various versions.
Nabbed a ticket (good seat, too!) for a Bruckner 4th with San Francisco Symphony, way off in June. First time hearing it live. Coupled with Schumann Piano Concerto ... approx ~~~~ 30 minutes.
I wondered if you would list Ormandy (you seem to mention him a fair amount). It was my first Bruckner 4 and I think a very fine one. Ormandy absolutely NAILS a moment that I now listen for in every recording. It is about 9 minutes in (in the Ormandy), bar 304 in the 1880 score. The violas play upward quarter notes. As the brass come in with their chorale, some conductors allow the brass to just obliterate the violas. You can hear them the whole time in the Ormandy. Bohm is another conductor who gets this right. The moment is so much better when you can hear the violas AND the brass!
I see someone else has already mentioned Kertesz/LSO - unfussy, very well played with some terrific orchestral detail and beautifully paced by Kertesz. Otherwise Jochum (DG), Böhm (Decca) and Klemperer (EMI) are all fine, as you say. I must try Honeck which I don't know. Another one I always liked was Kempe/Munich PO on a BASF LP which seems to have been out on CD sporadically and is well worth tracking down in spite of slightly thin sound. In Bruckner, as in so much else, Kempe was a wonderful conductor (I remember going to a live No. 7 which was magnificent).
Between 1989 and 1985 I got to attend five performances of Bruckner symphonies by the Munich Philharmonic and Sergiu Celibidache, all at the National Auditorium in Madrid. 7th, 3rd (twice), 4th and 8th. His is a Bruckner like no other. I have and enjoy his EMI set that was released after he was no longer among us, but I am also very fond of his 4th with Stuttgart. Quite a character, but not among the conductors who moved me the most in live performances. Zubin Mehta is up there--pure electricity whenever I saw him conducting, though never with the Three Mamarrachos.
I always go to Celi's because he seems the only one to get the Coda right in regard to the strings as you have said. I can deal with the slow dawdle at times for the bliss of the finale.
I'm not sure I would call what he does "right" in the sense that everyone else is "wrong," but it is legitimate and it works wonderfully at the tempo he chooses.
I was only familiar with Barenboim's Berlin recordings, so I thought I'd try his Chicago Bruckner Four for a change. What a thrilling account! I nearly fell off my chair during the Scherzo. Thank you for the recommendation.
Yes it's true: Celibidache is very slow but his Bruckner's Fourth is very personal and striking...I like also the "Romantic" of Sinopoli...really very intriguing
As a kid, I was always fascinated by that cover on Jochum's B4 in vinyl. Those are all great picks! With a gun to my head, Honeck/Pittsburgh would be my keeper.
The first Bruckner I owned was Solti with CSO. I also own Karajan/BPO, Celi, Furtwangler/VPO, Jochum/Dresden, Skrow/Halle, and Tintner/RSNO. love them all.
I never knew how to pronounce Sergiu Celibidache until I saw this video. Now I can pronounce it the right way. I do like Klemperer's Bruckner, especially the 4th. He speaks his language well, and gets his orchestra to do so as well (English orchestras are not-so-great with Bruckner). Jochum and Bohm are tops, pretty comparable.
Sorry to say, David does not pronounce it correctly. The "ch" is like a "k". The rest was quite right. (Think of it as an Italian spelling, if that helps.)
Wand BPO Bruckner 4 is one my favorite recordings of anything by anyone. I played it at the south rim of Yosemite Valley - 3k feet above the valley - and felt like I was flying into another world. That Celibifache is so slow though - compare finale to the Wand and you miss the rush of power unleashed by the orchestra. I do love Karajan’s Bruckner though especially the live video recordings from 70s with VPO in particular the 8th and 9th. And I think Abbado’s late Bruckner with Lucerne was solid. I agree that Abbado was better live most of the time his studio recordings depend a lot on the dynamic range and the engineering otherwise they can be boring.
I couldn't agree more! However (...isn't that you're new catch-phrase...HOW-EVER!!!!!!!), if I could sneak just one more in the batch....and it's beautifully recorded, exquisitely balanced and as stylistically sympathetic as they come....it would be Ormandy/Philadelphia. A really underrated Bruckner Fourth. Ormandy's Fifth, by the way, is no slouch either!
I agree. I mentioned the Fifth in that video and the only reason I didn't mention the Fourth is because I had enough of them. His Seventh is also gorgeous (and very quick).
Dave, I own the Klemperer recording of this symphony - a single CD that was part of EMI's "Great Artists of the Century" series. On the first page of the booklet is a famous photo taken in Berlin in 1929, at a luncheon in Toscanini's honor. (I have forgotten the reason why Toscanini was in Berlin at that time.) In the photo are Bruno Walter, Arturo Toscanini, Erich Kleiber, Otto Klemperer, and Wilhelm Furtwangler. Arguably the five greatest conductors in the world (at that time) in one place at the same time - wow! The fact that four of those guys all worked in Berlin in 1929 is a testament to the artistic excellence of the Weimar Republic which was swept away by the Nazis only a few years later.
Live performance April, 1989 in Los Angeles with Celibidache/Munich Philharmonic was the most memorable musical experience of my life. I already loved my huge and varied record collection and was a reviewer for Fanfare and The Absolute Sound magazines, and had explored audio technology, starting with triode amps... Nothing prepared me for having my musical coordinates changed by this one live performance.
Somewhere in this terrific series of videos, you told us to tell you why we like what we like. I’ve elected to do this for the Bruckner 4. My personal circumstances dictate that I had to re-hear the performances on iPhone to do this. Also, most of my comments refer to the 1st Mvt, the reason being that my wife gives me too much to do around the house. So, you’ll have to forgive me for my limited sampling. Can’t agree about the Wand. Yes, it’s a digital recording - and yes, the opening horn call is beautifully caught, ringing harmonics and all; but, he allows the music to meander at times and lose the kind of focus that makes it dramatic - and unlike some I feel that Brucker can certainly be dramatic. Wand’s recording isn’t great either in terms of the whole palette of orchestral sound. For example, the upper strings ‘go missing’ at times; for another, the brass en masse lack the weight, focus and burnished tone that both Jochum and Karajan produce from the same band. The glorious brass chorale which is transcendent in the Karajan DG recording - and very good in Jochum and Bohm - goes almost for nothing with Wand. Jochum is great, tremendously exciting, can’t disagree. Wayward though - and to use the analogy of the chariot racer I’d have to say it sounds as if he’s struggling to rein in the BPO after whipping them up for Ben Hur. Great moments of course: I particularly love what happens after the trumpet tutti about 5 minutes in, after which Jochum leaves a distinct pause then lets the basses rip it up fortissimo. Now that’s drama! But the Karajan DG is still my favourite. Now, I know that’s heresy, BUT: the entire band sounds glorious and the recorded orchestral perspective is much more ‘natural’ than Wand’s imo; then again, K’s control over the orchestra is in another league, the tempo is steady, yet nothing sounds static. None of those seemingly arbitrary accelerandos of Jochum’s, much as I enjoy those at times - and none of that occasional lack of impetus I find in Wand. The brass and strings sound glorious and you never escape the feeling that Karajan has the orchestra absolutely at the tip of his baton. For me, it’s an almost ‘spiritual’ experience. The only thing I really dislike about Karajan’s 4ths is the first violins playing an octave above the usual right at the beginning. Don’t like that at all, but it’s soon over.
I am totally sympathetic to your personal choices--they are yours--but I do take issue with the notion that you render judgment based largely on hearing first movements only. That is simply not a helpful comparison, especially when Karajan's horns go missing at the climaxes of the scherzo (indeed, his brass sonority is pretty clotted in general) and in other places. Furthermore, while Jochum does indulge in accelerandos while Karajan does not, I question your characterization of them as random. They aren't. You may not like them, but Jochum did not throw darts at the score and decide to speed up wherever one landed. Anyway, you get the point. By all means give us your thoughts--I love the detail and the care you took in writing--but you owe it to yourself (and to your readers) to listen to the performances whole, and if that means taking extra time to do it so that your marriage survives the experience, there is no rush and we will all understand.
@@DavesClassicalGuide Thanks David, that's fair enough. I should have explained perhaps, that I own all the recordings I wrote about and am familiar with all the movements, but was only able to make a brief revisit at the time. I mean damn, she won't even let me play Bruckner in the car. Anyway, I really love it that a professional reviewer will actually get back to ordinary listeners and have a conversation. And please don't get me wrong about Jochum - I wouldn't be without his Bruckner. My very best to you and yours from this side of the pond.
@@stuartclarke4683 Fair enough! Wow. No Bruckner in the car? The Eighth is my favorite auto symphony. It gets me exactly from New York to Connecticut in moderate traffic, and when it's over I have the double reward of one of the grandest finales in all of music, and having arrived! I'd be happy to speak to your wife if you think it would help.
These are all wonderful recordings but my favourite, thrilling, glorious version is that of Robert Heger with the decidedly imperfect Berlin Festival Orchestra. It’s here on UA-cam. Never before has the conclusion to the fourth movement struck me as a call to judgment that brings to mind the opening of the Tuba Mirum from the Verdi Requiem.
My first recording was a Capitol Lp of a Steinberg performance. Many have come along since then, though I don’t turn go Bruckner very often. The 4th and 9th are favorites. I also like Klemperer’s 6th.
All of my Top 5 got a mention! Klemperer, Bohm, Barenboim/Chicago, Jochum/Berlin and Wand/Berlin are the ones I pick from almost all the time. I like Honeck as well. Klemperer is still probably my all time favorite.
Dear David, I enjoyed your traversal of the Bruckner 4th recordings very much but was surprised you did not mention Klaus Tennstedt's version with the Berlin Philharmonic on E.M.I.. I have an affection for his version [I think it is Nowak ] having heard him conduct this symphony live with the BSO at Tanglewood. I love your reviews. Thanks.
If you like your Bruckner at the completely opposite pole from Celibidache (at least timing wise) there's Heinz Rogner and the old East German Radio Sym. Orch. Berlin on Berlin and Brilliant classics. Rogner brings the symphony in at an amazing (or depending on your view ridiculous) 58:21.
I agree that the seemingly endless editions is mind numbing,; but, this is the one symphony that makes a difference for me. I absolutely must have the third edition. If I don't hear the first violins jump the octave round about measure 47 I'm always let down. So thrilling. And Karajan is (for me) the absolute king of this symphony.
An aside on the Klemperer recording: when it was released in the LP era it had warnings that due to the dynamic range it could damage sound equipment (and probably do damage to ears, break window glass, hurt pets' ears, and perhaps cause your apartment lease to be terminated). .
Great fun. The 1st version seems a different work altogether. I only recently heard it. Very interesting but it is earlier Bruckner. I once heard the usual version with Furtwaengler doing breathtaking rubato in the slow movement.
I have a recording of the original version, and I like it for different reasons. But the 1878/80 version sounds better to me in many ways. (More congealed, more logical, more clearly melodical? Excuse me if I am off the mark here, I know next to nothing about music theory.) I don’t know where I heard Bruckner’s Fourth for the first time. It could be the Teldec Berlin Philharmonic under Barenboim, which I liked. I love the 1988 Celibidache with the Munich Philharmonic (that coda is simply wonderful. I really love that “cosmic metronome” feeling, building up unrelentingly towards some sublime “event”). I also love the Berlin Philharmonic under Gunter “So und nicht anders” Wand, which I have on CD too.
New to your channel on UA-cam and love it! Sent in the $49 gladly and am enjoying your reviews a lot. Im a trombone player and have a hard time not being biased for the brass sections on everything I hear. Would like to know your input on the Bruckner 5th with Wand but with the Berlin Phil. I know you like the earlier recording with NDR symphony but have not heard it yet. The finale with Berlin is breathtaking! Thanks for all you do!
Welcome, and thank you for your support! Both Wand 5ths are very good; I like the NDR versions because I think they have more edge and (you'd appreciate this) a less homogenized brass timbre--but they are great Bruckner performances in either case and the differences, interpretively, are minimal.
I have several Bruckner fourths I like Klemperer with the PO and also Karajan on DG but my benchmark version is the Vienna PO conducted by Karl Bohm from Decca!
Well, aren't we just crazily lucky, now that Jakub Hrúša with his Bambergers have just released their ultimate Bruckner Fourth Compendium? Three (!) CDs with every version of that piece ever conceived by the composer (and maybe not?), plus a fourth one wholly dedicated to bits and sketches hereto related. I admit I haven't (yet) listened to any of that. But I so dearly hope that YOU, Dave, won't resist the temptation to do so, and am highly curious to be granted a whole talk about this new addition to Bruckner's discography ::))
Two neglected Bruckner 4ths: Eduard van Beinum's live 1956(?), and Jochum's 1955 mono with the Bavarian Radio. Can't stand the "Schalkisms" in either of Furtwangler's, though.
I understand that there was considerable controversy about Sinopoli's ability as a conductor. There is a 1988 video on UA-cam of Sinopoli conducting the Philharmonia Orchestra in the Bruckner 4th which I rather like. Do you think he had the potential to become a great Bruckner conductor?
I have the Jochum Berlin version, but it's a DG "Musikfest" (1980s?) release, not the remastered "Originals" series. I wonder how the two compare, and if The Originals issue has any sonic advantage. Is it worth going with just the "Originals" version?
I recently discovered the Bruckner recordings (4,5,7,8,9) of Wolfgang Abendroth on UA-cam. Abendroth was a contemporary of Furtwängler, who ended up on the other side of the Iron Curtain. Anything here that deserves to be remembered?
It's Hermann Abendroth to begin with, not Wolfgang. He spent 20 years in Cologne, but then the Nazis gave him the Gewandhaus post to replace Bruno Walter. The recordings are 1949-56, mostly Leipzig Radio Symphony Orchestra, with pretty good sound quality. I tend to be forgiving there, as I date from the 78 rpm era. In general, they're up tempo and dramatic, reminiscent of Furtwängler. I'm enjoying them.
I figured your top choice would be either Böhm or Wand. And these videos are not only entertaining, but also quite educational. Without seeing them, I would never have been able to figure out how to pronounce "Celibidache." Or "Fricsay," for that matter.
An hour and 20 minutes for Bruckner 4? No thank you. Celebidatch is the one I was hoping wouldn't be here. Nice to see the Barenboim/Chicago recording. "It's Furtwangler with good playing" had me rolling on the ground!!!!
I think the best introduction to the symphony is Ormandy and the Philadelphia Orchestra. Yes it's an easy listening performance that doesn't demand anything from the listener but it works and the orchestra playing is effortless as usual.
@@DavesClassicalGuide No other version has the same intensity, violence, volatility and expectancy - certainly not the boring Wand which has as much numinosity to its name as a bucket of chicken from the Colonel, nor the jumpy, wannabe-Furtwangler Jochum (at least you opted for DG and not EMI). And Uncle Otto in the B4 - dear lord! Again, at least you did not mention Harnoncourt or make the obligatory reference to Dohnanyi so we thank the lord for small mercies! Best wishes, B
Agree with Bernard on this. The B4 and B7 HVK recorded for EMI in the autumn of 1970 have a unique glow about them. The openings of both symphonies are - to my ears - unimprovably beautiful here.
@@davidgoulden5956 Thank you David for the ratification. The subsequent remasters since the EMI Studio releases have enhanced their appeal as well. I prefer HvK's B4 over Wand by virtue of the former's ferocity and numinosity. Best wishes, B
Thankfully we have some perspicacious reviews to guide us in our Marketplace searches... Wouldn't want to be without my shelf of Late EMI Karajan, with pride of place going to the Big Kahuna Heldenleben ;-)
Dear Dave: This time, I have ALL your recommendations, plus 15 other versions (yes, we are not normal people, you are right). What do you think of the versions by Bruno Walter and Rudolf Kempe?
Ho often do you listen to all of them? I struggle to get through 2 or 3 recordings of a particular symphony in a month (unless I am getting into a new composer).
@@DavesClassicalGuideJust wanted your opinion, This is the performance that introduced me to Bruckner. I'm just re discovering my CD collection and I have a Fourth by Abbabo,but it doesn't do it for me, but I find The Kubelik exciting! Thanks!
@@richardgrassia5225 That's better, thank you for explaining. I find Kubelik to be very average--not terribly exciting or colorful, but if it works for you, then great. But do try some of the other versions mentioned if you get a chance.
@@DavesClassicalGuide Will do Thanks! I love your insights and the history behind the music that you present! I havent heard much of Kubelik but that Fourth seems very exciting to me. Give it a try. Great channel, learning so much!
David Hurwitz Yes. He’s especially fine in 20th century, e.g., the Berio and Stravinsky you reviewed. I was gifted the Bruckner symphony set on Decca and have gotten some pleasure from those recordings, though none would be my first choice.
In general agreement with you on all of the matters save for one: Wand's "final performance," the Bruckner 4th with NDR, is the one to get, not the Berlin offering. I'm surprised with Bohm and Celibidache in the mix, you didn't prefer the latter Wand/NDR version for the haunting rendering of the coda.
Klemperer was overall quite fast in the 1st and 4th movements and the trend has been for slower performances. So maybe that contributes to its neglect.
@@DavesClassicalGuide There is an important difference -- the Nowak ed. has the return of the horn call at the end of the finale. This gives a melodic element which is missing from Haas, and also gives a satisfying cyclical effect.
@@ThreadBomb I don't call that difference important, to be honest. The symphony already has plenty of cyclical elements, and we're only talking about a few notes. But if it makes a significant difference to how you hear the work, then I can certainly accept that it matters.
Spot on. You basically listed all my favorites. However, as I watch your videos I am watching for the sleepers or performances I have overlooked. Well, I haven't heard Honeck and it has been a long time since I have heard Barenboim, so those two will be fun to seek out! The only one that I ADORE that was left out was Skrowaczewski.
@@igorgregoryvedeltomaszewsk1148 No, the one that is part of his complete cycle, with Saarbrucken RSO, now on Oehms. I have his Halle one as well and I like it, but I think the one on Oehms is better.
Fully agree with your statements about early versions ( drafts really ). Poor Liszt is suffering the same fate. Leslie Howard has even completed earlier drafts and recorded them. A disservice to Liszt. Worse, they are being published. In other words an effort has been made to make inferior versions of works ( including the Dante sonata ).
Too bad you didn't include Blomstedt's first recording with the Staatskapelle Dresden in your review. It's a glorious performance with an astoundingly beautiful orchestra. And the recording is top notch.
I have found the Celibidache on Tidal and...well, I don't like it, Mr. Celibidache does not let the orchestra to breathe, it has too much control over it. On the other hand, his performance is also to slow.
Lovely review. There is actually a 2 CD set of a different Celibidache Bruckner 4 with the MPO recorded in Vienna that was released by Sony in a box along with DVDs of 6 7 & 8 filmed in Japan that is even slower at 83 minutes (with no applause) and even more intense and even more Celi-ish that you might want to hear. I think that Sony have recently released the audio versions of these in a box and each separately on CD. Movement timings of the Vienna 4 are I: 22.34 II: 18.18 III: 11.17 and IV: (wait for it) 31.43! Celi fans seem to love this one the best. You can listen to the coda of the final movement here: ua-cam.com/video/-GllbV1aXwM/v-deo.html
The most celebrated Celibidache recording of Bruckner's 4th among Celi nuts is this one from 1993. It hasn't been officially released and appears to be an in-house recording, and is only available on unofficial bootleg CDs - ua-cam.com/video/IVg9UEVc3cE/v-deo.html
I can't abide Cheli... Maybe he got something right here and there, but as an orchestral musician I find most of his work dreadful, arrogant, and musically indefensible). I would have hated to play for him. I avoid his recordings on principal. I do the like the Berlin/Wand. Somehow RCA (or TELDEC, who also recored the Barenboim/Berlin Bruckner, I think) was able to consistently produce a warmer, yet still clear live acoustic in the Philharmonie that DG seems always to struggle wth.
I wonder why some conductors play certain works (or in Klemperer's case, nearly everything) so s-l-o-w-l-y. It seldom if ever lends the music gravitas.
I'm sick of the interpretations of the "great grandfather with a cane" called Celibidache. they weigh a ton!! My favourites: Bohm, Jochum DGG and EMI, Wand and Solti.
Another "under the radar" recording in my view is Haitink's Vienna Philharmonic recording. A grand performance and also far superior to his other two recordings of this symphony.
Benjamin Korstvedt's 1888 version is a true disgrace, and so are his articles about the 5th symphony (Schalk ed) and his book about the 8th. The AB society is hijacked by some i- (music)ologists.
Much as I hate the 1888 "version" 4th, there is a "Mahler Re-orchestration" version which is equally bad in almost every perspective. Gennady Rozhdestvensky made a recording of this version.
Korstvedt approves of the Schalk "defenestration" (^^) of the 5th? That DOES indeed substantially lower my estimation of the validity of K's thoughts...
The Rozhdestvensky is the most "uber-complete" cycle around, is it not? King Anton of the Steppes, someone once said. The Adagio 3rd movement of the Rozh / USSR State Large Radio Orchestra (-?) has the loudest and most perversely obnoxious orchestral trumpet playing in the history of recorded sound, or perhaps in all of human history. Even the most raucous screaming Latin / mariachi trumpets are a pale dolce mp in comparison with the sound Rozh extracts from his trumpets, at least on the borrowed public library version I heard. Maybe the CD remastering tamed the trumpets a little-? If anyone else can weigh in on this subject, I would be fascinated to hear other impressions.
@@klemmelchi9408 The 1889 version came from Bruckners own hand, while the Mahler arrangement was merely meant to make the symphony more attractive to american listeners. So it is fine not to hold the Mahler version in high regards (as he probably wouldn’t do so himself), but what would be the problem with the 1889 that you hate it so much? After all it is the last and most final version Bruckner has given to us.
I'm really glad you draw attention to the Celibidache coda. As you rightly say, you hear everything (unlike many other versions), but what for me makes this stand out is its mesmerising quality. Whenever I hear this I am utterly transfixed; I can hardly breathe. And when you hear something like this you realise what a truly great composer Bruckner was: there is nothing quite like it in the entire orchestral repertoire.
Same here! Couldn’t agree more !
Same here! Moved to tears every time.
That last 5 minutes of the fourth movement are the entire justification for recorded classical
Music.
@@ollierdevon Hyperbole, anyone?
Bom Camadel it’s not hyperbole. It is that good.
This is an excellent explanation of the different versions, something which has always been confusing to me.
I want to add my voice to others in saying that these videos are really enjoyable and informative and are a bright light during this stressful time.
Thank you very much for the message of support. I know, it's driving all of us crazy. We all need an outlet...thank you all for allowing me to do this.
the celibidache is one of the best things I've ever listened to in my life, it makes life worth-living, the pendulum-like finale, the horn solo, is the best you can listen to, today i was listening to the choral works conducted by jochum, thank you, you are the best.
My pleasure...
I absolutely adore Mr. Hurwitz on Bruckner; it's educating, entertaining and funny. Very much appreciated.
The Philharmonia, then and now, one of my favorite orchestras.
I also remember the performance by Celi, at the Concertgebouw Amsterdam very well, and i was astonished by it and especially the final bars, he played it twice as slow as you normally heard it (at least thats how i experienced it), but it worked, it felt like a big machine slowly coming to life, and couldnt be stopped...unforgettable. I also remember Celi would give a short scream from time to time. Unique conductor..(also heard a fantastic 8th at the Concertgebouw)
Sorry, but for me Celibidache has been entirely spoilt by his horrible cult. And the all too frequent misses, too (try his Dvorak 9th... Yikes).
Yeah, do many other works use that 2-flat - > 1 cadence? Or did composers think "yunno, Anton did that once, and anything else would be a pale comparison... "?
Absolutely, his interpretation of Bruckner's 4th final ending is so unique and you will never forget it once you listen to it!!
Thanks for an interesting video. When I heard the Honeck last year I was astounded. He also recorded a fantastic 9th. I was delighted that you picked the Barenboim/Chicago, too. I like that cycle. Agreed that the Celi must be heard...that finale is an experience. Jochum DG is my first pick and has been for a long time. Never warmed to the Bohm. The Wand/Berlin records are good, though. I like the Klemperer...I actually find that as I’ve gotten older I like Klemperer more and more. Go figure. I also like the Karajan on EMI, Muti/Berlin, Walter/Columbia Symphony, Dohnanyi/Cleveland, and Blomstedt/San Francisco. I really LOVE the Blomstedt/San Francisco Bruckner 6, too. A real gem! In fact, Blomstedt’s SACD cycle from Leipzig is an all around winner, as well...interpretation, sound, performance-all first rate. Much better than the ultra dull cycle from Nelsons, IMO.
Back some years ago, don't know what got into me, but the one single piece of music I would only ever listen to, for almost a period of two months, was the finale to Bruckner's 4th Symphony. Seems I kept discovering new things each and every time I listened. I couldn't believe it. That's how rich a reservoir of majesty it is.
Yes, the coda from Celibidache is the part that made me appreciate for the first time celibidache’s genious.
Completely agree about Celibidache especially the coda which is miraculous, full of tension and just glorious when in erupts into the full sound. Bruckner 4 is one of my favourite symphonies.
Heard Celi conduct the 4th with Munich Phil at Suntory Hall in 1993. One of the most exciting musical experiences I ever had.
Thank you for this video, really had fun listening! I can definitely go with Celibidache (my favourite), Jochum, Honeck and Wand. And the Brass in Barenboim is great, yet a bit too prominent and brassy for my taste. Other favorites of mine are Blomstedt live with Gewandhaus-Orchester, Skrowaczewski and Harnoncourt.
It is such a joy to listen to your inspired reviews being in the idyllic island of Santorini which seems like an ghostly place after the COVID-19 outbreak. In this respect the super slow Celibidache version seems more appropriate to the deserted island.
I'll bet it does! Thanks.
I loved Santorini when I visited it as a child. Always wished I could go back…but, in a way, I would think the absence of tourists would be somewhat refreshing. As long as you have music and UA-cam…
Hooray! David Hurwitz & more Bruckner! What's not to love?
Back in the day ("the day" in my case being circa Thanksgiving weekend, 1974) I came home with my first Bruckner purchase: the Bruno Walter Columbia Odyssey LP of the B4. Fast forward almost a half century later, and I've now got umpteen hundred Bruckner recordings in their various Fassungen and editions... but who's counting?
Yet I still have a soft spot for Bruno's B4. Yes, I know the entire performance is far too mellow, and that Walter was ill, and that the Columbia Symphony Orchestra was an undersized pick-up group that was made to sound like a full-size orchestra thanks to the warm acoustic properties of the American Legion Hall and the engineering acumen of John McClure... I still love that recording all the same, even if its appeal is mainly nostalgic.
~ John Drexel
And what's wrong with that? It speaks to you still and that's all that matters.
wow I have been reading your reviews for years and just found this channel! keep up the reviews! I started off hating Celi but his interpretations have become a favorite over time!
Welcome aboard!
Wand’s with Berlin is something out of this world. For me it hits the mark like no other in the coda were he emphasazies, in the finale, the bass line like no other and it sounds like a group of monks praying. Spinetingling.
My first experience, many years ago, was Jochum with the Berlin Philharmonic - and you knew you were in for something special from the very opening - the horn call above the shimmering strings is magical 🙂
THANK YOU for this, I just searched your Bruckner videos, because I'm seeing the 4th performed this weekend live for the first time ever (mainly because I want to go see Emmanuel Ax play Mozart's 18th piano concerto - the Bruckner 4 just happens to be on the bill). Thanks to you I now understand the challenges around the versions - and noticed my purchase was of the wrong version (yuck). I grabbed Honeck's immediately, and now can not only compare the two, I can figure out what the Philadelphia Orchestra is going to play on Saturday, and enjoy this more. Once again, sir, your channel is an amazing resource.
My favorite Bruckner! My sleeper is the ormandy, Philadelphia, my first Bruckner recording, still love it. I have to admit, I love the 1888 version myself. Guilty as charged, and he did ok the publication, didnt he ?
Paul G
Sure he did. He paid for it himself, which means nothing actually when the music itself sounds so unidiomatic. Remember, we have two authentic editions that show us how the same passages ought to sound.
I really liked the video, and you are so funny! Thank you.
Thank you too!
Another excellent discussion. We have and like all of the recommended versions you mention. Celibidache is incredibly compelling, and I'm glad you mention it, even though I agree it should not be one's sole Bruckner 4. For me the "ne plus ultra" is Wand/BPO, fantastically played and conducted. For a real adrenalin rush I play Barenboim/CSO. I look forward to a discussion of the eighth symphony and its various versions.
Nabbed a ticket (good seat, too!) for a Bruckner 4th with San Francisco Symphony, way off in June. First time hearing it live.
Coupled with Schumann Piano Concerto ... approx ~~~~ 30 minutes.
It would be fun to have a drop-the-needle party with you :) You are very entertaining. Thank you for these videos.
I wondered if you would list Ormandy (you seem to mention him a fair amount). It was my first Bruckner 4 and I think a very fine one. Ormandy absolutely NAILS a moment that I now listen for in every recording. It is about 9 minutes in (in the Ormandy), bar 304 in the 1880 score. The violas play upward quarter notes. As the brass come in with their chorale, some conductors allow the brass to just obliterate the violas. You can hear them the whole time in the Ormandy. Bohm is another conductor who gets this right. The moment is so much better when you can hear the violas AND the brass!
I see someone else has already mentioned Kertesz/LSO - unfussy, very well played with some terrific orchestral detail and beautifully paced by Kertesz. Otherwise Jochum (DG), Böhm (Decca) and Klemperer (EMI) are all fine, as you say. I must try Honeck which I don't know. Another one I always liked was Kempe/Munich PO on a BASF LP which seems to have been out on CD sporadically and is well worth tracking down in spite of slightly thin sound. In Bruckner, as in so much else, Kempe was a wonderful conductor (I remember going to a live No. 7 which was magnificent).
Between 1989 and 1985 I got to attend five performances of Bruckner symphonies by the Munich Philharmonic and Sergiu Celibidache, all at the National Auditorium in Madrid. 7th, 3rd (twice), 4th and 8th. His is a Bruckner like no other. I have and enjoy his EMI set that was released after he was no longer among us, but I am also very fond of his 4th with Stuttgart. Quite a character, but not among the conductors who moved me the most in live performances. Zubin Mehta is up there--pure electricity whenever I saw him conducting, though never with the Three Mamarrachos.
I always go to Celi's because he seems the only one to get the Coda right in regard to the strings as you have said. I can deal with the slow dawdle at times for the bliss of the finale.
I'm not sure I would call what he does "right" in the sense that everyone else is "wrong," but it is legitimate and it works wonderfully at the tempo he chooses.
I was only familiar with Barenboim's Berlin recordings, so I thought I'd try his Chicago Bruckner Four for a change. What a thrilling account! I nearly fell off my chair during the Scherzo. Thank you for the recommendation.
Yes it's true: Celibidache is very slow but his Bruckner's Fourth is very personal and striking...I like also the "Romantic" of Sinopoli...really very intriguing
Increíblemente de acuerdo...Gunter Wand y Eugene Joshum...Honeck a escucharla!
As a kid, I was always fascinated by that cover on Jochum's B4 in vinyl. Those are all great picks! With a gun to my head, Honeck/Pittsburgh would be my keeper.
The first Bruckner I owned was Solti with CSO. I also own Karajan/BPO, Celi, Furtwangler/VPO, Jochum/Dresden, Skrow/Halle, and Tintner/RSNO. love them all.
I never knew how to pronounce Sergiu Celibidache until I saw this video. Now I can pronounce it the right way. I do like Klemperer's Bruckner, especially the 4th. He speaks his language well, and gets his orchestra to do so as well (English orchestras are not-so-great with Bruckner). Jochum and Bohm are tops, pretty comparable.
Sorry to say, David does not pronounce it correctly. The "ch" is like a "k". The rest was quite right. (Think of it as an Italian spelling, if that helps.)
Wand BPO Bruckner 4 is one my favorite recordings of anything by anyone. I played it at the south rim of Yosemite Valley - 3k feet above the valley - and felt like I was flying into another world. That Celibifache is so slow though - compare finale to the Wand and you miss the rush of power unleashed by the orchestra. I do love Karajan’s Bruckner though especially the live video recordings from 70s with VPO in particular the 8th and 9th. And I think Abbado’s late Bruckner with Lucerne was solid. I agree that Abbado was better live most of the time his studio recordings depend a lot on the dynamic range and the engineering otherwise they can be boring.
I couldn't agree more! However (...isn't that you're new catch-phrase...HOW-EVER!!!!!!!), if I could sneak just one more in the batch....and it's beautifully recorded, exquisitely balanced and as stylistically sympathetic as they come....it would be Ormandy/Philadelphia. A really underrated Bruckner Fourth. Ormandy's Fifth, by the way, is no slouch either!
I agree. I mentioned the Fifth in that video and the only reason I didn't mention the Fourth is because I had enough of them. His Seventh is also gorgeous (and very quick).
Mr. Distler....you need to get in on this!
Wand 4th's adagio.... I fell asleep quite many times listening to it
That wasn't Wand's fault.
@@DavesClassicalGuide lol. true!
Dave, I own the Klemperer recording of this symphony - a single CD that was part of EMI's "Great Artists of the Century" series. On the first page of the booklet is a famous photo taken in Berlin in 1929, at a luncheon in Toscanini's honor. (I have forgotten the reason why Toscanini was in Berlin at that time.) In the photo are Bruno Walter, Arturo Toscanini, Erich Kleiber, Otto Klemperer, and Wilhelm Furtwangler. Arguably the five greatest conductors in the world (at that time) in one place at the same time - wow! The fact that four of those guys all worked in Berlin in 1929 is a testament to the artistic excellence of the Weimar Republic which was swept away by the Nazis only a few years later.
Yes, that's a very famous picture.
Live performance April, 1989 in Los Angeles with Celibidache/Munich Philharmonic was the most memorable musical experience of my life. I already loved my huge and varied record collection and was a reviewer for Fanfare and The Absolute Sound magazines, and had explored audio technology, starting with triode amps... Nothing prepared me for having my musical coordinates changed by this one live performance.
Hello Neil. I remember you vividly. Thank you for sharing.
Hello David. Your recent surveys, one after the other, are remarkably informative and fun. Thank you for all your great work!
Somewhere in this terrific series of videos, you told us to tell you why we like what we like. I’ve elected to do this for the Bruckner 4. My personal circumstances dictate that I had to re-hear the performances on iPhone to do this. Also, most of my comments refer to the 1st Mvt, the reason being that my wife gives me too much to do around the house. So, you’ll have to forgive me for my limited sampling.
Can’t agree about the Wand. Yes, it’s a digital recording - and yes, the opening horn call is beautifully caught, ringing harmonics and all; but, he allows the music to meander at times and lose the kind of focus that makes it dramatic - and unlike some I feel that Brucker can certainly be dramatic. Wand’s recording isn’t great either in terms of the whole palette of orchestral sound. For example, the upper strings ‘go missing’ at times; for another, the brass en masse lack the weight, focus and burnished tone that both Jochum and Karajan produce from the same band. The glorious brass chorale which is transcendent in the Karajan DG recording - and very good in Jochum and Bohm - goes almost for nothing with Wand.
Jochum is great, tremendously exciting, can’t disagree. Wayward though - and to use the analogy of the chariot racer I’d have to say it sounds as if he’s struggling to rein in the BPO after whipping them up for Ben Hur. Great moments of course: I particularly love what happens after the trumpet tutti about 5 minutes in, after which Jochum leaves a distinct pause then lets the basses rip it up fortissimo. Now that’s drama!
But the Karajan DG is still my favourite. Now, I know that’s heresy, BUT: the entire band sounds glorious and the recorded orchestral perspective is much more ‘natural’ than Wand’s imo; then again, K’s control over the orchestra is in another league, the tempo is steady, yet nothing sounds static. None of those seemingly arbitrary accelerandos of Jochum’s, much as I enjoy those at times - and none of that occasional lack of impetus I find in Wand. The brass and strings sound glorious and you never escape the feeling that Karajan has the orchestra absolutely at the tip of his baton. For me, it’s an almost ‘spiritual’ experience. The only thing I really dislike about Karajan’s 4ths is the first violins playing an octave above the usual right at the beginning. Don’t like that at all, but it’s soon over.
I am totally sympathetic to your personal choices--they are yours--but I do take issue with the notion that you render judgment based largely on hearing first movements only. That is simply not a helpful comparison, especially when Karajan's horns go missing at the climaxes of the scherzo (indeed, his brass sonority is pretty clotted in general) and in other places. Furthermore, while Jochum does indulge in accelerandos while Karajan does not, I question your characterization of them as random. They aren't. You may not like them, but Jochum did not throw darts at the score and decide to speed up wherever one landed. Anyway, you get the point. By all means give us your thoughts--I love the detail and the care you took in writing--but you owe it to yourself (and to your readers) to listen to the performances whole, and if that means taking extra time to do it so that your marriage survives the experience, there is no rush and we will all understand.
@@DavesClassicalGuide Thanks David, that's fair enough. I should have explained perhaps, that I own all the recordings I wrote about and am familiar with all the movements, but was only able to make a brief revisit at the time. I mean damn, she won't even let me play Bruckner in the car. Anyway, I really love it that a professional reviewer will actually get back to ordinary listeners and have a conversation. And please don't get me wrong about Jochum - I wouldn't be without his Bruckner. My very best to you and yours from this side of the pond.
@@stuartclarke4683 Fair enough! Wow. No Bruckner in the car? The Eighth is my favorite auto symphony. It gets me exactly from New York to Connecticut in moderate traffic, and when it's over I have the double reward of one of the grandest finales in all of music, and having arrived! I'd be happy to speak to your wife if you think it would help.
Jochum DG for me!
These are all wonderful recordings but my favourite, thrilling, glorious version is that of Robert Heger with the decidedly imperfect Berlin Festival Orchestra. It’s here on UA-cam. Never before has the conclusion to the fourth movement struck me as a call to judgment that brings to mind the opening of the Tuba Mirum from the Verdi Requiem.
Can you please do the Bruckner 8?
Love your work, keep going, you’re doing a great job!
I'm saving it for a special occasion.
My first recording was a Capitol Lp of a Steinberg performance. Many have come along since then, though I don’t turn go Bruckner very often. The 4th and 9th are favorites. I also like Klemperer’s 6th.
a very tactical Celibidache thumbnail --> 15k views :)
Other channels use decorative women for that.
keep up the valuable work
All of my Top 5 got a mention! Klemperer, Bohm, Barenboim/Chicago, Jochum/Berlin and Wand/Berlin are the ones I pick from almost all the time. I like Honeck as well. Klemperer is still probably my all time favorite.
Looks like there's something of a consensus here...
A realy good review here thanks!
Böhm 7th great as well!
Dear David, I enjoyed your traversal of the Bruckner 4th recordings very much but was surprised you did not mention Klaus Tennstedt's version with the Berlin Philharmonic on E.M.I.. I have an affection for his version [I think it is Nowak ] having heard him conduct this symphony live with the BSO at Tanglewood. I love your reviews. Thanks.
My pleasure, and thanks for writing. I was never a fan of the Tennstedt, probably mostly because I thought the sonics were mediocre.
On EMI Gemini, that Berlin 4th was paired with an 8th with the LPO. The latter performance was much more satisfying in both recording and performance.
If you like your Bruckner at the completely opposite pole from Celibidache (at least timing wise) there's Heinz Rogner and the old East German Radio Sym. Orch. Berlin on Berlin and Brilliant classics. Rogner brings the symphony in at an amazing (or depending on your view ridiculous) 58:21.
I like the Rogner too!
For me, the B4 by Skrowaczewski with the Hallé on the IMP label is one of the best recordings of this symphony. Do you like that one?
All of his Bruckner is recommendable, I think.
I frequently return to Skrowaszewski's Hallé 4th for sheer pleasure; it is a truly great reading.
I agree that the seemingly endless editions is mind numbing,; but, this is the one symphony that makes a difference for me. I absolutely must have the third edition. If I don't hear the first violins jump the octave round about measure 47 I'm always let down. So thrilling. And Karajan is (for me) the absolute king of this symphony.
An aside on the Klemperer recording: when it was released in the LP era it had warnings that due to the dynamic range it could damage sound equipment (and probably do damage to ears, break window glass, hurt pets' ears, and perhaps cause your apartment lease to be terminated). .
Great fun. The 1st version seems a different work altogether. I only recently heard it. Very interesting but it is earlier Bruckner.
I once heard the usual version with Furtwaengler doing breathtaking rubato in the slow movement.
Don't forget to inhale!
Two under the radar discs for me: St. Louis /Vonk and a download from Milwaukee/Delfs.
I have a recording of the original version, and I like it for different reasons. But the 1878/80 version sounds better to me in many ways. (More congealed, more logical, more clearly melodical? Excuse me if I am off the mark here, I know next to nothing about music theory.) I don’t know where I heard Bruckner’s Fourth for the first time. It could be the Teldec Berlin Philharmonic under Barenboim, which I liked. I love the 1988 Celibidache with the Munich Philharmonic (that coda is simply wonderful. I really love that “cosmic metronome” feeling, building up unrelentingly towards some sublime “event”). I also love the Berlin Philharmonic under Gunter “So und nicht anders” Wand, which I have on CD too.
New to your channel on UA-cam and love it! Sent in the $49 gladly and am enjoying your reviews a lot. Im a trombone player and have a hard time not being biased for the brass sections on everything I hear. Would like to know your input on the Bruckner 5th with Wand but with the Berlin Phil. I know you like the earlier recording with NDR symphony but have not heard it yet. The finale with Berlin is breathtaking! Thanks for all you do!
Welcome, and thank you for your support! Both Wand 5ths are very good; I like the NDR versions because I think they have more edge and (you'd appreciate this) a less homogenized brass timbre--but they are great Bruckner performances in either case and the differences, interpretively, are minimal.
I have several Bruckner fourths I like Klemperer with the PO and also Karajan on DG but my benchmark version is the Vienna PO conducted by Karl Bohm from Decca!
Well, aren't we just crazily lucky, now that Jakub Hrúša with his Bambergers have just released their ultimate Bruckner Fourth Compendium? Three (!) CDs with every version of that piece ever conceived by the composer (and maybe not?), plus a fourth one wholly dedicated to bits and sketches hereto related. I admit I haven't (yet) listened to any of that. But I so dearly hope that YOU, Dave, won't resist the temptation to do so, and am highly curious to be granted a whole talk about this new addition to Bruckner's discography ::))
That's not very nice!
Two neglected Bruckner 4ths: Eduard van Beinum's live 1956(?), and Jochum's 1955 mono with the Bavarian Radio.
Can't stand the "Schalkisms" in either of Furtwangler's, though.
I understand that there was considerable controversy about Sinopoli's ability as a conductor. There is a 1988 video on UA-cam of Sinopoli conducting the Philharmonia Orchestra in the Bruckner 4th which I rather like. Do you think he had the potential to become a great Bruckner conductor?
I have no idea what might have been. He was pretty good as it was.
I have the Jochum Berlin version, but it's a DG "Musikfest" (1980s?) release, not the remastered "Originals" series. I wonder how the two compare, and if The Originals issue has any sonic advantage. Is it worth going with just the "Originals" version?
I recently discovered the Bruckner recordings (4,5,7,8,9) of Wolfgang Abendroth on UA-cam. Abendroth was a contemporary of Furtwängler, who ended up on the other side of the Iron Curtain. Anything here that deserves to be remembered?
I haven't heard them. You tell me.
It's Hermann Abendroth to begin with, not Wolfgang. He spent 20 years in Cologne, but then the Nazis gave him the Gewandhaus post to replace Bruno Walter. The recordings are 1949-56, mostly Leipzig Radio Symphony Orchestra, with pretty good sound quality. I tend to be forgiving there, as I date from the 78 rpm era. In general, they're up tempo and dramatic, reminiscent of Furtwängler. I'm enjoying them.
I figured your top choice would be either Böhm or Wand.
And these videos are not only entertaining, but also quite educational. Without seeing them, I would never have been able to figure out how to pronounce "Celibidache." Or "Fricsay," for that matter.
The "ch" in Celibidache is pronounced like a "k". Sorry to correct this.
[ Free -Tsjaj ] 😉
An hour and 20 minutes for Bruckner 4? No thank you. Celebidatch is the one I was hoping wouldn't be here. Nice to see the Barenboim/Chicago recording. "It's Furtwangler with good playing" had me rolling on the ground!!!!
Have the Böhm on blu-Ray.
Same. It sounds fantastic in 24/96.
I think the best introduction to the symphony is Ormandy and the Philadelphia Orchestra. Yes it's an easy listening performance that doesn't demand anything from the listener but it works and the orchestra playing is effortless as usual.
Karl Bohm / VPO (1878-1880 version) is unsurpassed. Full stop.^^ Confession, however: I have not yet heard the Honeck / Pittsburgh performance yet...
We neglect or forget Karajan 1970 EMI at our own peril.
No, we don't. It's a sludgefest.
@@DavesClassicalGuide No other version has the same intensity, violence, volatility and expectancy - certainly not the boring Wand which has as much numinosity to its name as a bucket of chicken from the Colonel, nor the jumpy, wannabe-Furtwangler Jochum (at least you opted for DG and not EMI). And Uncle Otto in the B4 - dear lord! Again, at least you did not mention Harnoncourt or make the obligatory reference to Dohnanyi so we thank the lord for small mercies! Best wishes, B
Agree with Bernard on this. The B4 and B7 HVK recorded for EMI in the autumn of 1970 have a unique glow about them. The openings of both symphonies are - to my ears - unimprovably beautiful here.
@@davidgoulden5956 Thank you David for the ratification. The subsequent remasters since the EMI Studio releases have enhanced their appeal as well. I prefer HvK's B4 over Wand by virtue of the former's ferocity and numinosity. Best wishes, B
Thankfully we have some perspicacious reviews to guide us in our Marketplace searches... Wouldn't want to be without my shelf of Late EMI Karajan, with pride of place going to the Big Kahuna Heldenleben ;-)
Klemperer's the one. God I love it.
Dear Dave: This time, I have ALL your recommendations, plus 15 other versions (yes, we are not normal people, you are right). What do you think of the versions by Bruno Walter and Rudolf Kempe?
I think you have enough! So I'm not going to say!
Ho often do you listen to all of them? I struggle to get through 2 or 3 recordings of a particular symphony in a month (unless I am getting into a new composer).
My choice the San Francisco Symphony conducted by Blomstedt on Decca (their 6th is fine also)
How about Kubelik with the Bavarian Radio Symphony Orchestra?
What about them?
@@DavesClassicalGuideJust wanted your opinion, This is the performance that introduced me to Bruckner. I'm just re discovering my CD collection and I have a Fourth by Abbabo,but it doesn't do it for me, but I find The Kubelik exciting! Thanks!
@@richardgrassia5225 That's better, thank you for explaining. I find Kubelik to be very average--not terribly exciting or colorful, but if it works for you, then great. But do try some of the other versions mentioned if you get a chance.
@@DavesClassicalGuide Will do Thanks! I love your insights and the history behind the music that you present! I havent heard much of Kubelik but that Fourth seems very exciting to me. Give it a try. Great channel, learning so much!
@@richardgrassia5225 I know it well.
Böhm has always been my go-to recording, but I also like Chailly with the Concertgebouw. Dave, what is your take on Chailly?
In Bruckner? He doesn't thrill me, but he's nearly always solid. I like a lot of his work very much.
David Hurwitz Yes. He’s especially fine in 20th century, e.g., the Berio and Stravinsky you reviewed. I was gifted the Bruckner symphony set on Decca and have gotten some pleasure from those recordings, though none would be my first choice.
@@DavesClassicalGuide He's good in the early symphonies I think
David Kelly I agree. I like his 1 and 2 a lot.
In general agreement with you on all of the matters save for one: Wand's "final performance," the Bruckner 4th with NDR, is the one to get, not the Berlin offering. I'm surprised with Bohm and Celibidache in the mix, you didn't prefer the latter Wand/NDR version for the haunting rendering of the coda.
Oh, I'm just full of surprises!
@@DavesClassicalGuide Thanks for jogging my mind on the Jochum recording.... I'll have to give the Honeck a shot as well.
Klemperer was overall quite fast in the 1st and 4th movements and the trend has been for slower performances. So maybe that contributes to its neglect.
Possibly!
Hello David, can you explain something to me? What is the difference between the (1886 Version, Ed. Nowak) and the (1881 Version, Ed. Haas)
I can't do that here--it's a bit involved, but if it's any consolation, the differences aren't important, really.
@@DavesClassicalGuide Thats cool. I noticed Eugen Jochum, BPO, DG was 1886 Version and the Wand, BPO, Sony was the 1881 Version
@@DavesClassicalGuide There is an important difference -- the Nowak ed. has the return of the horn call at the end of the finale. This gives a melodic element which is missing from Haas, and also gives a satisfying cyclical effect.
@@ThreadBomb I don't call that difference important, to be honest. The symphony already has plenty of cyclical elements, and we're only talking about a few notes. But if it makes a significant difference to how you hear the work, then I can certainly accept that it matters.
Spot on. You basically listed all my favorites. However, as I watch your videos I am watching for the sleepers or performances I have overlooked. Well, I haven't heard Honeck and it has been a long time since I have heard Barenboim, so those two will be fun to seek out! The only one that I ADORE that was left out was Skrowaczewski.
Sorry. No horns in the scherzo. A great performance otherwise, though, I agree. They really all are in that set.
Skrowaszewski's Hallé recording you mean James Cameron ?
@@igorgregoryvedeltomaszewsk1148 No, the one that is part of his complete cycle, with Saarbrucken RSO, now on Oehms. I have his Halle one as well and I like it, but I think the one on Oehms is better.
Fully agree with your statements about early versions ( drafts really ). Poor Liszt is suffering the same fate. Leslie Howard has even completed earlier drafts and recorded them. A disservice to Liszt. Worse, they are being published. In other words an effort has been made to make inferior versions of works ( including the Dante sonata ).
Too bad you didn't include Blomstedt's first recording with the Staatskapelle Dresden in your review. It's a glorious performance with an astoundingly beautiful orchestra. And the recording is top notch.
No horns.
@@DavesClassicalGuide C'mon Peter Damm was one of the greatest horn players of his generation !
I'm fond of his recording with San Francisco.
Wasn't it Jochum's mission to do all the symphonies, due to what he considered a lack of interest and seriousness by other conductors toward Bruckner?
I have found the Celibidache on Tidal and...well, I don't like it, Mr. Celibidache does not let the orchestra to breathe, it has too much control over it. On the other hand, his performance is also to slow.
Why is everybody forgetting Dohnanyi? He made some fabulous Bruckner recordings with the Cleveland Orchestra, especially No. 4.
I hear you.
Dohnanyi's 3 - 8 are terrific!
I have kempe, klemperer, jochum, but I don t like the 4th :), I prefer 5th
Lovely review. There is actually a 2 CD set of a different Celibidache Bruckner 4 with the MPO recorded in Vienna that was released by Sony in a box along with DVDs of 6 7 & 8 filmed in Japan that is even slower at 83 minutes (with no applause) and even more intense and even more Celi-ish that you might want to hear. I think that Sony have recently released the audio versions of these in a box and each separately on CD. Movement timings of the Vienna 4 are I: 22.34 II: 18.18 III: 11.17 and IV: (wait for it) 31.43! Celi fans seem to love this one the best. You can listen to the coda of the final movement here: ua-cam.com/video/-GllbV1aXwM/v-deo.html
Yes, I have those too, but prefer Munich because it moves just a little...
The most celebrated Celibidache recording of Bruckner's 4th among Celi nuts is this one from 1993. It hasn't been officially released and appears to be an in-house recording, and is only available on unofficial bootleg CDs - ua-cam.com/video/IVg9UEVc3cE/v-deo.html
@@mozpiano2 This one sounds like he drank a bottle of scotch, took a couple of vallium and sounds like he's on the verge of dozing off.
Dave, what are your thoughts on Sawallisch/Philadelphia? Thank you for the great video as always :)
He was a very fine Bruckner conductor, but that performance did not strike me as memorable.
Honeck/Pittsburgh! . . . Honeck/Pittsburgh! . . etc.
I can't abide Cheli... Maybe he got something right here and there, but as an orchestral musician I find most of his work dreadful, arrogant, and musically indefensible). I would have hated to play for him. I avoid his recordings on principal. I do the like the Berlin/Wand. Somehow RCA (or TELDEC, who also recored the Barenboim/Berlin Bruckner, I think) was able to consistently produce a warmer, yet still clear live acoustic in the Philharmonie that DG seems always to struggle wth.
I wonder why some conductors play certain works (or in Klemperer's case, nearly everything) so s-l-o-w-l-y. It seldom if ever lends the music gravitas.
Klemperer was not notably slow. Indeed, he played slow movements rather quickly. Anyway, it's just how they feel the music.
I agree. Great strings are the acid test for me in Bruckner, not drowned out by brass.
I'm sick of the interpretations of the "great grandfather with a cane" called Celibidache. they weigh a ton!!
My favourites: Bohm, Jochum DGG and EMI, Wand and Solti.
Another "under the radar" recording in my view is Haitink's Vienna Philharmonic recording. A grand performance and also far superior to his other two recordings of this symphony.
Yes, it is.
Benjamin Korstvedt's 1888 version is a true disgrace, and so are his articles about the 5th symphony (Schalk ed) and his book about the 8th. The AB society is hijacked by some i- (music)ologists.
Much as I hate the 1888 "version" 4th, there is a "Mahler Re-orchestration" version which is equally bad in almost every perspective. Gennady Rozhdestvensky made a recording of this version.
Korstvedt approves of the Schalk "defenestration" (^^) of the 5th? That DOES indeed substantially lower my estimation of the validity of K's thoughts...
The Rozhdestvensky is the most "uber-complete" cycle around, is it not? King Anton of the Steppes, someone once said.
The Adagio 3rd movement of the Rozh / USSR State Large Radio Orchestra (-?) has the loudest and most perversely obnoxious orchestral trumpet playing in the history of recorded sound, or perhaps in all of human history. Even the most raucous screaming Latin / mariachi trumpets are a pale dolce mp in comparison with the sound Rozh extracts from his trumpets, at least on the borrowed public library version I heard. Maybe the CD remastering tamed the trumpets a little-? If anyone else can weigh in on this subject, I would be fascinated to hear other impressions.
@@klemmelchi9408 The 1889 version came from Bruckners own hand, while the Mahler arrangement was merely meant to make the symphony more attractive to american listeners. So it is fine not to hold the Mahler version in high regards (as he probably wouldn’t do so himself), but what would be the problem with the 1889 that you hate it so much? After all it is the last and most final version Bruckner has given to us.