What’s the best swing thought to play great golf?
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- Опубліковано 27 вер 2024
- Do golf swing thoughts actually make you play worse? There's a lot of evidence to suggest that is the case, so I thought I'd test the theory by playing golf with no swing thoughts for the first time in my life.
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I took a lot from my first read of Golf is not a game of perfect at the start of this season (been playing for 18 months now having not swung a club for 15 years) but it really clicked into place a few months ago when I read Rotella's 'Your 15th Club', which is a follow up from many years later. He mentions how when we first learn to drive we're intentionally driving, ie making all the actions we need to in order to control the car. However, once we've been doing it for a while we allow our subconscious to perform those learned tasks and there will be times where you've driven somewhere and literally not even thought about the driving but everything else going on in your mind. I've taken this approach to the course and having started the season as an 18 handicapper and probably playing at about 15 in the summer, Arccos currently has me at 8.7
As for how trying to force a new swing process whilst out on course goes my round from yesterday further proves the point. I shot 10+ on the first 8 holes with just a single par as I was trying to force a draw, I switched that off from 9 onwards and just switched to my target selection process and I was 3+ thru that 10 and in 'flow' for 90% of it.
Be interested to see how you get on with your journey, as it's something you have to commit to and won't see instant results.
Interesting, will add that to my list of books to read. Thanks!
Rob- love your vids as they are pretty much always entertaining and often insightful. I have to say you remind me of me 20 years ago.
I used to drive the ball miles and loved 4 clubs in my bag- driver, 2 iron, wedge and putter!
Yet somehow I always remembered the bad shots, the duffed chips and shocking sand shots. I tried improving my swing to move onto the next level which was a massive disaster (short story the pro broke me for the next 18 years!).
But what I have learned is nothing positive comes out of a negative thought. And in golf every remembered negative thought gets carried over to the next shot. Learning from what just happened is fine but reliving it isn’t.
You only ever want one swing thought - target. That’s it.
If you continue in a permanent state of conscious competence and conscious incompetence you’ll never focus on the job at hand. Your vid was about “not having any swing thoughts” yet that was exactly your swing thought so arguably you didn’t achieve your intended goal.
Why not distract yourself? Tell us on each hole how you see the shot (the target) why you see it how you do. What is your feel for the challenge to achieve that target (hit draw, high fade, low cut, choked down on a 5, chipping with a hybrid..). Mention hazards or why your target is the right one but focus on EXACTLY where you want the ball to land and stop. To the blade of grass if you have to.
If it comes off then you called it. If doesn’t then maybe you called it wrong- fine. If the execution failed you then fine the main thing is that you approached the shot with “target intentions” and without thinking about something that you can’t change - the past. If you can say you did that on each shot then you won’t be able to remember the bad shots! Nothing wrong with a possible quick “Learn why” (alignment wrong, got the wind wrong or what ever) just don’t dwell on it and move on BEFORE the next shot. Having an exact target you’re likely to be closer with a positive set of decisions than any negative “well it’ll probably end up in the sh!t” type thought because that thought really only has “told you so” and “yeah well it wasn’t as bad as it could have been” outcomes. Nothing positive! Likewise if you’re still thinking of the last shot cos it wasn’t perfect you aren’t going to hit the next one perfect. But, at the end of the card, gross 71 won’t tell any one how you was robbed (no pun intended) on the 4th green or that you bladed one 300 yards onto a par 5 for 2 and then 4 putted or that you chipped in from 70yds for a par out of a divot so deep you needed a step ladder to identify your ball.
You clearly have physical ability (probably scratch material) but you’re a 15-18handicapper on the mental game.
That all said I love your honesty! I love your vids. Your personal journey is awesome and I think you are getting there you’re just standing in the way of yourself at times.
Come to Brock one day!
Rob don’t know if you’ve read it but “The inner game of golf” describes how to let go of swing thoughts perfectly…give it a go,it saved my game, especially with driver which was destroying my card.
Will read, thanks!
Do it,it’s not an easy read,it took me two attempts before I finished it, but well worth the effort!
Great content. I totally agree with everything you have said. Try this. Take the pressure off by only taking 7-8 clubs out with you. Rotate through these clubs per round. Take 1 wood, 1 recovery club, 4 or 5 irons including wedges and a putter. I was suprised at the results. Let's just say considering the heavy course conditions I still managed to hit in the mid to high 70's.
I've played my best golf just thinking about shot shape and target. Feels easy when you get it right. Just doesn't happen that often!
I think it all depends on what your metric was for this being a successful round. Was it score, was it you feeling good after each shot, etc? On a crazy windy day with sub par chipping and not playing for a couple weeks seemed like a pretty good round. Also I think not thinking about anything is hardest with chipping/pitching at least for me. Great vid Rob!
My best playing partner is my 8 year old daughter. So young & innocent she prohibits me from thinking about anything technical.
I, too, have tried just about everything in 35 years. These days, and specifically this year where I got down to 4, my swing thoughts are generally simple. "Keep it smooth" helps the transition and was my favorite this year. Length isn't something I chase now so keeping it smooth keeps it straight. Cheers!
I honestly can't imagine not thinking about my setup and swing intentions before hitting a shot, but I sometimes try to do that first, then focus on target just before I actually take the club back and hit it. Seems like it might be a good middle ground. I know I do that with my putts and it really works. My last thought is to picture the hole and swing. I need to do it more with the longer clubs.
I have tried this once but it was a disaster for me. I find I have to have swing thoughts as that is what I have always done during practice and play. My guess on the bushes that you weren’t sure on was that they are just called brambles. Don’t know if I’m correct or not but that’s how I refer to them. Enjoyed the video. Thanks
What happened to the stack and tilt thing? 😂
I play my best having just one or two swing thoughts. I’ve never played with none. My main thoughts at the moment are to rotate hard on to my right heel and swing left through impact so I don’t put too much draw spin on it. Highly technical stuff 😂 Inspired by watching Xander Schauffele in the final round of the Scottish Open, I’m also really concentrating on maintaining a great tempo.
You were asking what causes that low thin shot to the right. Although hard to tell from the video, you’ve had a tendency to early extend in the past which can often result in inconsistent contact and flipping a bit at impact. Could be that. It’s often a clubface issue at the root cause of that.
In your backswing on the not a shank shots you allow the club further back around you vs other shots and your swing plane back down comes across with a more open face due to your hands staying more cupped from the backswing difference you’ve made
I think swing thoughts only belong on the practice range. Use them to find a swing feeling. Drill those swing feels until it becomes yours.
Like cursive writing, after enough repetitions, the movement is natural to you and it becomes difficult to do it any other way.
It's a very common sense type of thing to say that it's a bad idea to have multiple swing thoughts whilst trying to play a round of golf for a score. In my experience that approach is a kind of golfing euthanasia. Is the opposite true, that having zero swing thoughts can make you play better? It's the better of the two options but I'm not entirely convinced that it's going to magically improve scoring.
( I did listen to the last video which led to this one, btw).
In Mark Broadie's analysis, which you are familiar with, the thing that ultimately sets golfers apart all the way through amateur and pro rankings up to and including elite professional golf, is ball-striking. Which leads to the question, how does a golfer improve their ball-striking? In my opinion there is only answer to that which is, have confidence in your swing. My hypothesis would be that the best amateurs and pros have an awareness of their own swing and have at some point in their golfing journey found something in their swing which allows it to repeat, even under pressure. If a stellar short-game can be added to this confident swing then suddenly the sky is the limit.
Just my thoughts and good luck with the quest.
I’m off 1 I’m lucky I get to play with my mates off +1 and +3. The difference is their long game is way better than mine. I play most of my golf with my mate off 4 . My long game is better than his.
Also read 15 th club by Rotella recently … takes essence of game of perfect and deepens it - advocates personal affirmation, visualisation and purposeful practice - taking time to trust these processes but enjoying the journey- golf feeling less of a battle for me … hopefully do the same for you 🤞
You need to read playing lessons by Jack Nicklaus. Basically he visualises every golf shot before he hits the ball. Competitive round or practicing at the driving range. No swing thoughts but only target. Best golfer I played with he said when hitting bunker or chip shots he tried to hole every one instead of just hitting it within 6 foot circle. I was -2 when I list 5&3 he was -7. 100 yards and out we were the same but from 100 yards or less he was different class.
The "mini shank" as you called it. Is caused by the same thing that causes a shank. Which is hitting it to close the the hosel. I could be wrong on this one (haven't read the book you were talking about) but I don't think having no swing thoughts necessarily means: "walk up to the ball and hit it". I have never seen a pro golfer just walk up and it a ball. Instead I think it means forget about routines. Instead, live in the moment. Feel it out instead of think it out, do you know what I mean?
Allways love your videos, keep it going and keep the faith.. BTW what course is that ?
Cheers John. Royal North Devon.
Your drives are looking great, man!
if i take a swing thought to the course would be 2 max very simple ones ie restrict leg action and first move
I seem to be in a similar state with my game as you are. Love watching your journey. I Have that book. Read it! Just need to take it onboard.
Great video - love the brutal but beautiful RND - if you need one thought and your following Saguto Golf, then how about pressure into left knee/side - playing whilst focusing on the shot is when I play my best, but I need 1 clear thought for my swing and the left knee idea seems to work for me.
Your lag putting was great and tee shots where good. Your irons in and wedge shots chips etc look like you where holding of and guiding your hands and slowing down before impact. But huge improvement’s, you just don’t notice because it’s yourself but watching from the outside you definitely have improved mate
I have played best when I have a had a consistent pre shot routine and making sure I’m set up perfect, then that is done so no more thinking about that and then have one swing feel more than a thought, usually for me it’s the thought of being inside a barrel and moving inside of that barrel smoothly, keeps me more compact instead of sliding and having too long of a back swing
I can so relate to your journey. keep going!
Adam Young... hammering a nail through the ball. Only swing thought. Seems to help.
I have got so used to thinking about technique that if I ever lapse for a minute I start hitting fat and thin shots and terrible putts, I think it's because I play infrequently so I have to keep reminding myself what to do all the time.
Rob, my best rounds have come when I really concentrate on my set up but during the actual swing I'm only thinking about tempo. Seems to work for me most of the time. I needed to somehow get to a place where I trusted my swing to do this so you have to practice. The range is where you do all the repetition if you're making any changes. Is that stuff hawthorne?
This is like trying not to think about polar bears. "What am I trying not to think about again? Oh yeah, polar bears... Shit."
I also read the same book recently, and another fundamental principle is acceptance of the end result no matter good or bad.. No offence but I think you weren't applying that principle on this round, seemed like you got really bothered by the bad shots and its difficult to not take that sort of energy/feeling into your next.
Anyway, this is my first time watching your channel, enjoyed it. Cheers mate.
G et yourself a set of hybrid irons, i play once in a blue moon and can shoot single figure rounds, they are stress free and effortless.
Great video, Rob.
I’m not convinced by this concept. Makes sense on the face of it, but Sam Snead etc. don’t need swing thoughts cos they are outrageously talented golfers. Also when you’re having a good round your swing thoughts are reduced because you’re already playing golf. Contrast that to feeling in a bad place with your swing and feeling completely lost on the course - in that scenario I’d suggest a few swing thoughts might help rather than hinder. The goal has to ultimately have no swing thoughts, but I’m not sure the majority of us will ever reach that level of skill, consistency and confidence.
Fair points! I think maybe the dream is to be playing well enough to have none, the happy medium is to have one (maybe two) and the bad scenario is starting the round with dozens floating around your head!
Brambles mate…..
My best swing thought is the word “tempo”… when I have a steady backswing and get max speed just after impact, I get the best results…as for good routines…do all your thinking as you look down the line at your target…when you’re over the ball ZERO thinking, just TEMPO!
Those are brambles, the long straight spiky things around 10, 11 and 12 are technically called "eye-poppers" because that's what they'll do if you go in there looking for your ball...
About 20 years ago I played this round with a very funny bloke in the group and basically laughed for the whole round. As we walked up the 18th fairway the captain said to me "you're about to shoot a women's record on this course" Haha - I had hardly thought about my golf at all. There's something in this alright!
the scientific term for the flora you were asking is: shyte !
Smooth..... that's what I try to think, until I get angry, then smash it....then back to Smooth after a fat or thin.
Are you still doing stack and tilt
Am I right in saying when they asked Sam Snead on his thoughts he said if I'm not thinking about sex, I'm not concentrating?
Rob, try Mental Golf Type. They check your personality type against the way you play golf. It maybe that your personality type needs a swing thought.
Just bought both Golf is Not a Game of Perfect and Your 15th Club. Will give both a read. May have been said before, but I think you are too hard on yourself with your "bad" shots. That will probably instill a negative mindset and affect your game. That being said I'm only a 28hc so don't listen to me! 😄
Look like Blackberry bushes. Can't help with the golf! 😄
The bush is bramble's I think
Nice video
Rob its been a while i havent reached out to you but today i am having a problem bro i met this lady at costco a couple days ago she is 28 years old we are 4 years apart and i really like her so i asked her to be friends and exchange phone numbers but when i asked her if we can exchange numbers she said we cant because she has a boyfriend so i asked her for a hug i gave her a hug and then walked away my question to you is rob is the reason she rejected me was because im losing my hair? Can losing your hair change your life in meeting females? Please let me know asap man i really need your advice 👍😁
I'm trying to watch golf on UA-cam without any thoughts! I thought it was an interesting ide.... D'oh!🤦
Was you thinking too much about thinking about nothing??
Bramble.
I'd say the expectation is that you practice quite a bit and as you say, gain trust in your swing, THEN you can forget the mechanics when you play...
Welcome to the revolution! I'm well down this rabbit hole myself after calling ballocks on traditional swing based instruction a few years ago. In fact I've had many great conversations with Stuart in the past! I would highly recommend looking into The inner game of Golf by Timothy Galway (the god father of this concept) The Motivation Game by Dr Mike Dr mike Grevlos (One of my all time favourite books - just so many answers) The Fluid Motion Factor by Stephen Yelin (Short and easy to read so start with this) and GYRA Golf by Dr Izzy Justice (This is the next level neuroscience shit right here) Most have been on pod casts discussing their concepts if you want to easy your way in. I would be creating content myself on this but life has put that on hold. Folks need saving as your story, like mine is all too common.
Hey Rob, thanks for the video. While the experiment of "no swing thoughts" might not have worked, it was a positive that you were able to have a plan and execute it. The game is a constant ebb and flow of "back to the drawing board". Cheers.
My golf thought depends on what sort of round I am playing. If it's to score, I try and just go through my routine, visualize the shot I want to make and just think about the target when I am swinging. So for a drive I pick a spot on the fairway, and I agree with your thinking - aim small miss small, so I pick a very small spot on the fairway versus a big area and keep that in my head. If I am playing a practice round though I might work on one aspect of my swing. Last time out I just kept the swing thought of "lead with hips" in my head on every shot since it seems to help with my timing - trying to ingrain that one into my subconscious. If I don't have a swing thought, my brain will go off willie nilly on it's own and I end up with too many thoughts in my head. So for me it helps to settle my brain if I give it some direction.
I can't help but notice how often you bemoan your shots and get very discouraged after anything less than an ideal shot. Why not just hit it and then go play the next shot without beating up on yourself? I think it makes you feel very ready to be disappointed and therefore quit on a lot of shots. Imagine if you went into every shot thinking I'm going to put this close and save a stroke here. I bet you'd find it very hard to say something good about your golf after every shot! A good check on your negative self-talk.
Just wondered, have you considered Zen Golf Mechanics? A few years ago you had a lesson of Danny Burstyn I think. He's part of their set up now and they seem to be doing good things.
Stick with it , need a couple more rounds getting used to more naturally moving your weight around. Hence the fat and thins definitely the way forward
I always have a swing thought - rhythm is a good one
'I'll run it through the mound....Noope!'
Total self-destruct at the end!
I played Sunday, been really struggling lately, two months ago I had two of my best ever rounds, both +1 gross, brought me down to 6.3. Since then, I've been struggling (but managing) to break 90. Been trying a few things up the range and thought I'd found something last week so decided to take it out on the course. Shot 92...
I think if you're going to have a swing thought, it needs to be something you've practiced a LOT, not something you've spent two sessions on the range "mucking about" with. So, I'll continue with this idea when I'm at the range (because it appears to work there), but next time I go on the course I'm not going to actively try to do it, I'll just be hoping by the time I next get to the course I'll be doing it automatically. We'll see. I'm not hopeful, largely because my next game will see my playing off 3, so I'm already going out thinking I've got no chance!
Playing the howling wind you were ripping the ball off the tee, your irons and wedges were a touch off but that's down to not having played in 3 weeks....loads of positives and love the idea of just picking specific targets and moving away from all swing thoughts!! Cracking looking course by the way
I think you've maybe taken this concept a bit too far, where "no swing thoughts" has turned into not making any effort to adjust outcomes. I don't think it's a "swing thought" in this sense to try to move your low point on your chipping and pitching forward to improve strike and not chunk it. But I think the key is not to overreact and only try to adjust things that are going consistently wrong.
I listened to the audiobook version went out and shot my lowest round ever next day. Just never been able to find pure “look at the target, look at the ball, swing” place since!
Always play best when relax enjoy it play carefree I've learnt that after being a hothead for years just hard to keep negative thoughts out
Brambles brah…. Otherwise known as F#uked on the golf course!
Chip on the last with the mound, go right 100% of the time and take a chance at making the putt. Cost you bigly