Bleeding for Jesus: John Smyth and the cult of the Iwerne Camps.
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- Опубліковано 25 лис 2024
- Andrew Graystone discusses his new book, Bleeding for Jesus: John Smyth and the cult of the Iwerne Camps, with presenter, broadcaster and journalist Jeremy Vine.
Bleeding for Jesus is the first book to tell the true story of John Smyth QC, the Christian barrister and moral crusader, who used his role in the church to abuse more than a hundred men and boys in three countries - and the Iwerne Camps movement which inspired and facilitated his crimes. The book also exposes the way that victims who disclosed since 2013 have been re-victimised by the alleged wilful negligence of the Church of England. It reveals how elements of the contemporary church, groomed in Iwerne culture, are still refusing to come to terms with their own role in events, and their responsibility towards victims. The story of John Smyth is a study in spiritual abuse.
Andrew Graystone is a writer, broadcaster and journalist who has written and presented over 1000 programmes and talks for BBC Radios 2, 4 and 5Live. He has written for many national publications including The Guardian, Third Way and the Church Times. He is an academic theologian specialising in theological communication and has written two books, Too Much Information? and Faith, Hope and Mischief. He was the first to bring the story of John Smyth’s abuse to public attention through a series of reports on Channel 4 news in 2017. He is based in Manchester.
Bleeding for Jesus: John Smyth and the cult of the Iwerne Camps is available to purchase here: www.dartonlong... .
Many Anglican leaders have been to boarding schools. Boarding schools very often are unloving and abusive places. There is also a deep taboo with many boarding school boys about blowing the whistle on abuse and telling someone in authority - even if the abuse gets really really bad. If you do - you will be "outed" by other pupils. I suspect this "anti whistle blowing taboo" - which you could translate into "calling in the police and the social services" remains with many ex-boarding school pupils including clergy long after they have physically (though not mentally) left their boarding schools behind. The wonderful poem by WH Auden Consider this and in our time talks about a monster or anti-christ figure "giving prizes to the wounded boys" - all sorts of levels to this. As an ex boarder he knew too well what he was talking about.
Thank you for saying this. Piers Cross has dedicated an entire channel to boarding school syndrome and recovery from it as he is an ex boarder himself. He also reads excerpts from autobiolgraphies from ex boarders such as Tony Blair, Charles Spencer, Stephen Fry and Bear Grylls. He also has guests on his series of podcasts who also talk about boarding school syndrome as they are ex boarders themselves. He mentioned that Welby was boarding school educated, which is why he covered up for Smyth. Piers Cross and Nick Duffell have said that you never tell on anyone else no matter how serious the abuse you experienced or witnessed. It took them years to undo all that.
Ministers in other Christian denominations either have been to boarding school or have sent their children to them so the boarding school ethos is endemic in church. Even though I never attended a boarding school my experiences are similar to those with boarding school syndrome. At home, at school, at free and in churches. I only felt free on long solo walks and cycle rides in the countryside where I was able to think more clearly.
In addition to this, the appalling "middle/upper class respectability" of the time silenced children. You NEVER TELL ANYONE WHAT GOES ON IN THIS HOUSE...sound familiar? Public/private schools back then got away with murder - I had a teacher at four who was an absolute psychopath but she knew all us "proper" children would stay quiet so picked on the (revolting, I know) children of the nouveau riche who just wanted to buy their children opportunities. She nearly killed a child a couple of years after I left. Similarly, both my brother's incredibly brutal public school and my got-to-1940-and-stayed-there had massive scandals the year after we left involving suicides and lethal attacks. Because nice middle-class gels don't terrorise others and parents who pay for education could never neglect or abuse, could they?
Entire generations of children have been scarred as badly as any child from the worst circumstances. We may have come out clever, but we also came out repressed and so broken. It's truly shameful that money bought silence and in far too many cases, such severe damage that lives were claimed.
I can't change anything for any of you, just know that plenty understand and I'm sorry. Stupid, pointless values allowed horrendous abuses and it should never have happened.
100 views and no comments! Thank you Andrew for your hard and brave work.
I attended a Bash camp, just after Smyth's successful prosecution of the Gay News blasphemy case. (Welby was a volunteer there) Luckiy the camp, and Smyth in particular, gave me the creeps, and I've stayed away from all involvement with evangelical Christian groups ever since.
I went to the sister camp of irwene, Lymington Rushmore in the mid 2000s and it was toxic. Cult like, manipulative, legalistic. It may not have been straight up abusive but it was hardly a "holiday." More like going to a military boot camp for a week
Why did the man who wrote a report on this man’s criminal acts not go to the police? Why just report him to church authorities
Nothing to do with 'Bleeding for Jesus.' Jesus's name being used to cover up and hide behind pure sadism.
'The very best schools'...
Welcome to the English class system. All caught up with the sadism described in this and other discussions of this and other similar cases.
This abusive behaviour was not / is not confined to the abuse of boys from the 'best schools'. See Saville. But private schools / religious institutions seem to be a peculiarly fertile ground for it.
Please explore the South Aftican connection...i taught at a school wherd the chaplain was abusing boys on treks up mountains in Natal...also the emotional abuse of children in classrooms...
The Code of Silence in these schools allows for abuse to occur, the old boys allow it and its shocking
The victims have been groomed to be weak years before and not allowed to stand up for themselves or even lie their way out of abusive or dangerous situations. Both boys and girls in churches are trained to put other people's happiness ahead of their own happiness and even their safety. That being 'rude' is the worst they are told they can be.
Many a time, I was told that I was 'rude' for sneaking away from a date or a house. I am not going to wait for permission to leave or ask for it when I know it won't be given to me when I ask for it. So, I am going to disappear when the perpetrator's back is turned.
I applaud John Lydon for being aware that there were pedophiles in the Catholic church he was forced to atrend from an early age, both through his own intuition and the grapevine among young boys in his church. His way of keeping safe was to deliberately sing so badly in the church choir so he would get kicked out of it. Hardly anyone in the church was willing to join the church choir because of what was going on, so some of them were made to join it.
How dare these abusers and those who have harboured them tell humanists and others whose behaviour (although far from perfect) is considerably better than theirs that God sends no-one to hell but they are sending themselves there by not being a believer.
They dont' believe. Predators look for soft targets.
l'm so tired of vo!untary orgs NGOs Charities harboring human tapeworms, why am the only one that spots the charming psychopath within the 1st 5 mins of a meeting?
Clue: Altho psychopathology is 'invisible' you can spot the psycho by the goofy behaviour of their flying monkeys.
I heard someone say that Smyth could be in Heaven if he repented at the last minute. Crazy!
Just checked what 'spare the rod, spoil the child' from the Old Testament actually means (it was originally written in Hebrew presumably, the cultural language of the Jews):
"In Israelite culture, the rod (Hebrew: מַטֶּה maṭṭeh) was a natural symbol of authority, as the tool used by the shepherd to correct and guide his flock. Moses, in fact, initially carried his rod while tending his sheep, and later it became his symbol of authority over the Israelites." This abusive guy was of course unbelievably arrogant and cruel to interpret this biblical passage in the way that he did (and have many other people to justify physical/ corporal punishment); the problem to me is that people forget the the teachings of the Bible were written 2000 years ago plus, and addressing a completely different culture to our own. If we are to take it on ourselves to pronounce 'the truth' in biblical teachings, then we need to study the bible in the context of this culture.
So many Christians I know adore the ten commandments but have absolutely no idea what the beatitudes are!!
Why on earth Christianity, which has its roots in Middle Eastern goat and sheep herding tribes came to be such a powerful religion is beyond me.
@@TheTeach56because it grew quite a lot from those roots. See writers like Philo of Alexandria and Augustine of Hippo - the contemporary intellectual greats of the tradition at the time it went global.
“Extremely well financed”….St Helen’s Bishopsgate?? “A particular brand of Christianity”….white, middle class, wealthy City finance sector.
A horrible, horrible place. No connection with the love of God.
I can’t help but suspect Welby kept quiet about this case because he was a victim - not just because he was on the camps. I know I had huge shame and actively hid what happened to me - it would only be the same but at a higher institutional level
47.10 possibly from a culture in church schools where heavy physical abuse was considered totally normal and necessary. Since it was considered totally normal and was what Anglicans intended to do, and was considered normal for the times.
It affected the majority of men in UK schools till cp was criminalised. Smyth was likely made to bleed in his schools.
Anglicans do not seem interested in providing any empathy or support for recipients.
Justin Welby needs to resign.
Fortunately he was forced to resign last week. He should be arrested.
Done !
It is not reflection that is required, but repentance. Reflection should have happened long ‘ere now.
@MH
Perhaps application of the law would galvanise those who behaved wrongly. Reflection and repentance are all very well as first steps; but they do not go far enough.
School teachers are mandated reporters - they must by law report any perceived abuse.
Similarly, church personnel in positions of authority should be mandated reporters to the national judicial authorities, not simply to the church's own judicial system.
how about a tad of punishment and retribution with a flutter of compensation?
Seems like churches everywhere need to include comprehensive training in how to deal with victims of abuse.
Abuse happened in thee 90’s in the Anglican Church in Norfolk. These were religious retreats. It happened everywhere all the time.
The Church of England's Jimmy Saville.
On steroids
Reminds me also of Cyril Smith who physically and sexually abused teenage boys and young men. One young tearaway was beaten by Smith when his parents called him into 'discipline' him but he struggled and escaped.
I haven’t read the book!
There's a very clear pattern with respect to the sexual inclination of offenders against minors in the various churches, but restrictions on freedom of speech prevent me from pointing it out
This is not a sexual inclination; it is sexual sadism (paraphilia). Educate yourself.
@dokpikun-bg3en Are you saying his sexual inclination was towards females? 🤣🤡😅
@dokpikun-bg3en His particular perversion was not indicative of his sexual inclination? 🤣🤡😅
@dokpikun-bg3en Are you saying his sexual inclination was heterosexual? 😅🤣😅
@dokpikun-bg3en That’s very funny, but it's not a laughing matter.
Has John Smyth been kicked out of church yet? Why isn't he in jail?
Last time they checked he was still dead.
@@paulrandall9705 🤣🤣
because you can't put a dead man in jail
@@paulrandall9705 Hahahaha!
@@MSA-uj7cp No but worse may happen because he must stand before God for judgement.
It is not true that what John Smyth did was "discipline" - at best it was highly sadistic and highly morally indisciplined "discipline". Ultimately discipline and love mean the same thing. Love is taking an active and conscious part in someone else's spiritual growth. It might be stern at times but it never ever ever involves corporal punishment or beating someone. Unfortunately the bible itself is not clear about this - which is what you would except from a large collection of books from different authors (all of them men which is in itself deeply wrong) Proverbs itself says spare the rod and spoil the child. It ought to read use the rod and ruin the child. Someone who sexually abused me was regularly slippered as a child and adolesccent. I told him that the slippering was wrong. He said say that again and I will punch your lights out. Abuse runs in families in that way - especially when parents are deluded enough to believe the sin and moral muck that is in that verse of proverbs. We call to account Smyth for beating young men and quite rightly so. Is it really any morally better to beat children? I am not such a softy that I think children or indeed adults shouldn't be punished sometimes. They need to be - punishment being about reform rather than just an end in itself. But a Christian father might beat his son for arriving very late home or being nasty to his sister. If a boss took an employee who turned up half an hour late for work or was rude to a fellow employee to his office, pulled down his pants and spanked his bottom there would be a clear legal case against that boss for indulging in assault. Modern law protects adults from assault even when they have behaved very selfishly or badly. The Bible - in the book of Proverbs - advocates assault against children.
To say the Bible advocates assault against children is a narrow interpretation of the Bible. Our Bible speaks against it and that is the story of the couple fleeing to escape violence against children and save Mary’s unborn child. Only people like John Smyth pick up passages to claim the Bible does so when it does not and the Bible spirit is against violence including religious intolerance and narrow minded interpretations of the Bible, we chose it as our Bible specifically because it is a book of resistance against oppression and adversity, against violence and intolerance and habotnic thinking and bigotry
@@MihaelaP-r8h Your Bible says many many things. After all it has many many authors all of whom like us all are deeply deeply flawed human beings. You may say they were filled with the holy sprit. I say spirit or no spirit we all leak very fast indeed. When we do we come up with statements like "spare the rod spoil the child" I cannot begin to tell you how upset and disgusted I am to be compared to John Smyth.
Could just as easily be spare the measure, as in measuring rod, meaning dont neglect and ignore or vent at them, stick to the golden mean, and model grace.