Hi all - we had an error in the upload that resulted in the design drawing Jonathan mentioned not getting included - here's a link to the relevant bit of the drawing: imgur.com/a/c3csxEc
Maybe since it's a prototype, they left the bayonet with a slightly rounded tip for safety while people examined the weapon design and concept, but if it had gone into production, the user versions would have been sharp?
This feels like the type of weapon you would send to resistance members or covert operators who were gonna be dressed in plainclothes. Probably primarily relying on it as a knuckleduster but if necessary you could fire a shot. The fact that its smoothbore and it takes so long to reload, makes me feel like this was meant to be used within very close quarters and you are shooting sparingly because you definitely cannot reload mid-combat.
@@datadavis That might also be why there's no front sight; allangibson8494's idea about a silencer is interesting, though, and in that case the silencer might have it's own front sight.
Or maybe a machinist just saw a old apache and thought it would be a fun project but needed a excuse to officially make it. Seems thoroughly impractical in every. If old johnny boy doesn't have a clue them none of us do
Jonathan, one of these videos popped up in my feed a couple of weeks ago. Had a passing interest in firearms in that they are attached to some aeroplanes which I love. I have now purchased books (one of them written by someone with your name, what a strange coincidence lol) watched alot of your videos.....fascinating! You've given me a new interest and I would like to thankyou so much! Thanks!
Do run over to "Forgotten Weapons" as well. Ian is very soothing to listen to as well and is a fund of knowledge. Between the two of them they make a fine cocktail, with only the slightest hint of cordite.
@@tarmaque Hi, thanks so much for that. I've discovered that pleasure already. Through the videos they have made together. Also, Gamespot, Jonathan's look at weapons in the gaming world. So much to learn! Love it. Thanks!
@@JonathanFergusonRoyalArmouriesCould PR stand for Parachute Revolver/Parachute Regiment? It would be an interesting weapon for a Paratrooper. The blunt blade is a bit like a fallschirmjaeger knive and the knuckleduster the Yarara blade for Argentinian Paratroopers.
Every time Jonathan calls a gun wacky I can't help but think of the Lisa's Wedding episode of the Simpsons. "Yes. It's a good thing they re-evaluated those wacky old designs." -cuts to plane with 12 wings flapping like a bird
Wow! I've only ever seen two grainy photographs of this pistol. I've been hoping this would appear at some point.Finally I understand how it loaded rimless ammunition. A strange one for sure. Thanks for sharing
I just visited the museum in leeds and thought a lot about this oddity of a weapon. It was displayed in front of a red velvet backdrop a few steps away from a 1570 Nuremburg wheellock pistol quite the facinating area in the exhibition. Would have loved to have a chat with jonathan about the gun, but here is the next best thing. Thanks for the video.
I think the blade is meant to be used in "knuckleduster" mode and it meant to make contact with a great deal of force on the side of the victim's head behind the ear. SOE did have little daggers specially-made to go in there and they were about the same length. Those were sharp, this might not need to be as it's penetrating thin bone.
The seriousness in his voice and salt&pepper hair says: I'm distinguished and intelligent. The Deadpool undershirt says: Nah, I'm just messing about with weird guns. 😂
@@Aconitum_napellus oh idk, i'm sure there were higher and lower ranks in resistance cells. militia guys who vanished when france announced surrender, old military commanders. the british secret service was always cooking up new tricks for them, like the pancake mix which was perfectly edible and yet, when prepared properly, could be used to blow up railways
I was thinking similar. Something along the lines of a home made alternative to the Liberator (also designed in 1942) but they stopped at the prototype model.
14:05: 'Dead-end, didn't go anywhere' sums it up. The barrel is short and smooth-bored, the 'blade' could not even be described as blunt, it's so blocky, and as a knuckleduster it's unwieldy, although the weight of the weapon would add to the force of the punch. So, it's not surprising the SOE made their own, if this is what Enfield could do for them! The smooth bore could be a benefit if you were firing armour-piercing flechettes, of course!
Yes, I think you were suppose to swing it at the enemy's ear and hope to punch through behind the ear. Everything about this is a non-firearm depends on swinging to provide enough force, because that's how the knuckleduster works as well.
Perhaps one 'technique' was in close quarters, the blade stabs into the body *then* the pistol fired. It might reduce the sound of the shot and ensure a 'solid' hit.
Did you hear a gunshot? No, all I heard was Hans screaming bloody murder, like he'd just been stabbed really forcefully with a very dull blade. Ah, carry on then.
if this is a prototype, the knife is dull because proof of concept stage of prototype. if it was put into production, it would have gotten a proper sharp knife.
Are there any SOE weapons videos? I’d love for you to make a video with SOE weaponry if you haven’t already done so. This was a great video as always. I very much enjoy this channel, Jonathan is brilliant.
The Design Drawing (which unfortunately got left out of the video but see the new pinned comment) shows the exact same blade profile. Had this been mass-produced, the blade would have been similarly blunt. On the face of it, it's by design and more of a shiv than a blade!
All I can think looking at that rear sight is that they finally remembered 200 years later that the short and long land pattern infantry muskets only had front sights, and they wanted to achieve balance.
there are some japenese revolvers pre ww2 that use the japense 9mm revolver cartridge, but i dont know about 9mm parabellum, and a quick google search doesnt result in anything other then lugers, which isnt a revolver
What's the hole in the back for? If not for the folding melee weapons, I'd wonder if this has some DNA from an attempt to make a production expedient handgun (what the Sten was to an SMG) since the S&W Carbine to Victory Revolver debacle shows the WW2 Brits really needed handguns. The remove cylinder to reload thing is a classic of the absolute cheapest revolvers (e.g., Rohm), smoothbore barrel shows up in a lot of pre-34 equivlents in cheapness, and the sheet steel receiver reminds me of the Jaeger pistol of WW1.
Considering that it is a revolver, unless it is one of the few revolvers with a sealing mechanism (moving the cylinder forward or the barrel backward), it will already have a pressure release from the frontal sides of the cylinder.
@@williampratt1066 It may not be the ideal shape for a knife blade (although it could be reground in service) but it's an even less ideal shape to be some sort of unloading tool. It's too tight to the side of the weapon to function as a belt clip. It's directly analogous to the Apache design, where it's most definitely a knife blade. Why bother grinding it into a lenticular shape if it's not intended to be a knife?
@@JonathanFergusonRoyalArmouries ah the advantage of having the item in hand😉 a spike bayonet would have been a good idea then it could have been duel purpose. Ps enjoyed the Bullpup book😊
And it's a bit wild because the actual Apache people group never really called themselves that, The word is a corruption of the word for enemy, and not even in their own language in the language of the group that lived near them and called them the enemy. That's who the French explorers ran into first.
Perhaps this was intended to be dropped to resistance forces ala the Liberator? Small(ish), concealable, compatible with German ammo, cheap to manufacture. Though I would have thought if that was the case they would have just made the sheet metal revolver bit and not bothered with the folding knife and knuckleduster bits which must have added a lot of complication to the manufacture? People already had knives.
Maybe an early attempt at a PDW? Made for the back pockets/clutch purses/what-have-you of cooks, mechanics and secretaries all over the Commonwealth? I don't really think so, but it conjures some entertaining mental images. Edit: that barrel is the final clue that this is not so much a handgun, and more of a hand-to-hand gun. You'll have to be within grappling range to hit someone.
Richard Wattis the actor was in SOE's weapon design department in ww2 i wonder if he ever worked on this kind of thing. War service interrupted his career as an actor.He served as a second lieutenant in the Small Arms Section of Special Operations Executive at Station VI during the Second World War (James Bond author Ian Fleming worked in the same section).[2]
Suggestion for a future video: can you interview your resident staff archaeometallurgist expert Dr. David Starley? I suspect he will have much to say about the evolution of metals for arms manufacture.
Perhaps it was intended to go into a survival kit for pilots or sailors, or maybe, like the Liberator, to be dropped to partisan forces? I believe the Liberator was made in 1942, so maybe that was seen as a better option?
Clearly a rather more stout though much less stylish revival of the Dolne Apache. Jack-of-all-weapons designs are always extremely interesting and fun, but like other combination tools, struggle to perform any of their intended functions as well as single purpose versions. But I'd love to have one. Looks extremely fun to play around with. And I love weird firepower. 😛
Interesting to think that England thought of the Thompson submachine gun as a gangster gun. When England apparently made the most gangster gun of all 🤣
Don't forget Churchill liked the Thompson SMG so much he kept one for himself. So when he said "We shall fight in the fields and in the streets" he was dead serious.
I get a very strong feeling given the date that this wasnt intended for SOE use but for air crew. The knuckle duster can function as an escape tool for smashing a glass canopy. The knife is your strap cutter and the revolver element is meant to replace a side arm. I would be tempted to take this in its folded format and see if it fits in a specific pocket on a heated flight suit. Bomber operations really ramped up by 42 and they would have seriously been looking at air crew equipment.
I'm guessing somebody just had the idea and thought maybe they'd make one and see if the SOE was interested. I don't know what kind of policies and procedures there were though, whether enfield would have been allowed to just up and make something when SOE weapons weren't their job.
Just watched a Mark Felton video about Abwehr parachuters. They dropped with a small pistol and a 'round' tipped knife to cut out of harness if caught. They did not have a knuckle duster, though, which would only be useful in a highly aggressive open fight. (8:37 Did German paratroopers land in Britain? )
@@TE4358g : Many english words contain a ,wh' , so accidently writing wher instead of wehr is understandable. I am german, Brittas boyfriend ( using her Computer too), i write comments either in german or english ( et très rare en francais), but sometimes the Computer doesn' t recognize the language, with strange results- similar, but wrong words appear. In case of Wehr, die Wehr is a dated word for weapon, especially a bladed one ( so the military context , also Feuerwehr/ firebrigade) and sich wehren means to defend yourself. But das Wehr is somethng quite different. A kind of small dyke with a small door, to open or close a small waterway for using water power. In german language the change of der, die or das sometimes changes the meaning of a word, can't explain this phenomeon.
Did hi-powers tend to be issued to more well trained, important troops like paratroopers and commandos or did they prefer 1911s? I'm wondering if the british leaned towards creating larger wound channels with their sidearms, or they desired more professionalism and precision using a cartridge closer in diameter to the enfields or the same as the stens. Or was there no preference? I kind of assume the 1911s would be issued as sidearms to guys who would be more likely to use them more haphazardly
It was probably meant for resistance fighters as a covert handgun. The resistance would use it to eliminate lone enemy soldiers, then take their weapons and kit.
I’m honestly surprised that they even bothered with having that little pop up rear sight considering the thing is a smoothbore. It can’t have been accurate for shooting at anything farther away than a few meters an at that range you’re not going to be using sights anyways but just pointing and shooting.
SOE might be off it looks like something MI 6 would have in their inventory! seeing how it was a work in progress the bayonet may have been left blunt til the rest of the weapon was more developed!!
How likely would it be for one of the more executive people at Enfield to be familiar with the French pistol, and using their influence to prototype their own version to pitch to SOE types? I could certainly imagine the type of guy that'd do that in that era.
Ha one for the Classic science fiction buffs: Alfred's Bester's Classic "The Demolished Man" had this as the murder weapon in a cyberpunk detective story, before cyberpunk was a thing (Also had the first fictional example of someone using a touchscreen tablet, so ner ner to the Trekkies and their PADDS.) Not bad for something that was written in the 1950s
i honestly feel this could be for resistance groups, a bit like the liberator pistols stab, knock out or shoot someone, get a hold of their better weapon, and get out. cheap, concealable, able to be used in frantic close quarters situations, as if you are ganging up on a few enemy soldiers. and in an emergency it can be used and reloaded with german ammo, meaning if you get a hold of ammo but no gun, you can reuse it this to me screams resistance
Was it ever covered if it can first with the knife element extended? Also curious if it was more common if the Germans captured them you think officers would have taken them as status symbols
For all that weight, i think you'd be better off with a captured Walther and a Fairborn Sykes dagger. That contraption looks more likely to get its user killed than anything else.
There must be an interesting story of the thinking behind this which has been lost to time. It looks like a step backwards from the apache? Much less pocketable and elegant
Hi all - we had an error in the upload that resulted in the design drawing Jonathan mentioned not getting included - here's a link to the relevant bit of the drawing:
imgur.com/a/c3csxEc
Huh, the bayonet does look like it has an actually sharp tip there, or at least much sharper of a tip than the prototype has.
got any high quality photos of the piece?
Too busy editing in the BttF music I bet 😂
Maybe since it's a prototype, they left the bayonet with a slightly rounded tip for safety while people examined the weapon design and concept, but if it had gone into production, the user versions would have been sharp?
The drawing linked above does indeed show a more pointy tip to the bayonet.
I was assuming that as well. You don't need to prove that knives are sharp as much as you need to prove that the gun and it's unusual set up work.
Came down here specifically to say the same thing. I'm sure it was a safety measure since this was only a one-off prototype weapon.
it looks like a Trench Weapon and I dig it. thanks, Jonathan, for covering it
“Trench weapon” “I dig it”
Lol
This feels like the type of weapon you would send to resistance members or covert operators who were gonna be dressed in plainclothes. Probably primarily relying on it as a knuckleduster but if necessary you could fire a shot. The fact that its smoothbore and it takes so long to reload, makes me feel like this was meant to be used within very close quarters and you are shooting sparingly because you definitely cannot reload mid-combat.
Yea it seems like a gun designed to use a jerry ribcage as silencer..
@@datadavisGiven the screw on barrel extension, an actual silencer is also an option…
Firearm for SOE radio operators?
@@datadavis That might also be why there's no front sight; allangibson8494's idea about a silencer is interesting, though, and in that case the silencer might have it's own front sight.
A more complex version of the liberator pistol perhaps
Or maybe a machinist just saw a old apache and thought it would be a fun project but needed a excuse to officially make it. Seems thoroughly impractical in every. If old johnny boy doesn't have a clue them none of us do
Jonathan, one of these videos popped up in my feed a couple of weeks ago. Had a passing interest in firearms in that they are attached to some aeroplanes which I love. I have now purchased books (one of them written by someone with your name, what a strange coincidence lol) watched alot of your videos.....fascinating! You've given me a new interest and I would like to thankyou so much! Thanks!
Thanks Nick!
Do run over to "Forgotten Weapons" as well. Ian is very soothing to listen to as well and is a fund of knowledge. Between the two of them they make a fine cocktail, with only the slightest hint of cordite.
@@tarmaque Hi, thanks so much for that. I've discovered that pleasure already. Through the videos they have made together. Also, Gamespot, Jonathan's look at weapons in the gaming world. So much to learn! Love it. Thanks!
@@JonathanFergusonRoyalArmouriesCould PR stand for Parachute Revolver/Parachute Regiment? It would be an interesting weapon for a Paratrooper. The blunt blade is a bit like a fallschirmjaeger knive and the knuckleduster the Yarara blade for Argentinian Paratroopers.
@@TE4358g Where are you getting 'PR' from, sorry?
Love the christening of this pistol/knuckle duster. It has been a very long time coming.
The rear sight popping up is just adorable
I suppose that the idea is that it is a reliable indicator that the handle is locked.
Every time Jonathan calls a gun wacky I can't help but think of the Lisa's Wedding episode of the Simpsons. "Yes. It's a good thing they re-evaluated those wacky old designs." -cuts to plane with 12 wings flapping like a bird
Wow! I've only ever seen two grainy photographs of this pistol. I've been hoping this would appear at some point.Finally I understand how it loaded rimless ammunition. A strange one for sure. Thanks for sharing
I just visited the museum in leeds and thought a lot about this oddity of a weapon. It was displayed in front of a red velvet backdrop a few steps away from a 1570 Nuremburg wheellock pistol quite the facinating area in the exhibition. Would have loved to have a chat with jonathan about the gun, but here is the next best thing. Thanks for the video.
I think the blade is meant to be used in "knuckleduster" mode and it meant to make contact with a great deal of force on the side of the victim's head behind the ear.
SOE did have little daggers specially-made to go in there and they were about the same length. Those were sharp, this might not need to be as it's penetrating thin bone.
The seriousness in his voice and salt&pepper hair says: I'm distinguished and intelligent.
The Deadpool undershirt says: Nah, I'm just messing about with weird guns. 😂
This would be an amazing piece for the collection! Love it 😄👌👌
I wonder if it was intended for distributing to the French resistance; a bit of a nod to their history might be a morale booster.
Way too complicated for resistance fighters though I reckon.
@@Aconitum_napellus oh idk, i'm sure there were higher and lower ranks in resistance cells. militia guys who vanished when france announced surrender, old military commanders. the british secret service was always cooking up new tricks for them, like the pancake mix which was perfectly edible and yet, when prepared properly, could be used to blow up railways
@@sleepCircle I'd forgotten about the "Aunt Jemima" flour. Mainly used in occupied China IIRC. Would certainly make your birthday go with a bang. 🎂💥
I was thinking similar. Something along the lines of a home made alternative to the Liberator (also designed in 1942) but they stopped at the prototype model.
that pixelated subscribe gif is awesome ❤
14:05: 'Dead-end, didn't go anywhere' sums it up. The barrel is short and smooth-bored, the 'blade' could not even be described as blunt, it's so blocky, and as a knuckleduster it's unwieldy, although the weight of the weapon would add to the force of the punch. So, it's not surprising the SOE made their own, if this is what Enfield could do for them!
The smooth bore could be a benefit if you were firing armour-piercing flechettes, of course!
concealable sights. I love it
I do wonder if not a prototype of an aircrew “Survival kit” weapon, and the “bayonet”more like a large awl for emergency tasks
Yea
Possibly
that could also serve as a knife if needed in an emergency
That's my thought as well. I think the screw on section took flares.
My thoughts are similar a weapon for paratroopers (or pilots) the blade is like a fallschirmjaeger imo.
Blunt does more damage.
I’m not an expert but I suspect a blunt object won’t get jammed in bone or skull as easy as a sharp one
Yes, I think you were suppose to swing it at the enemy's ear and hope to punch through behind the ear. Everything about this is a non-firearm depends on swinging to provide enough force, because that's how the knuckleduster works as well.
The exploding pixel art was quite cute
Perhaps one 'technique' was in close quarters, the blade stabs into the body *then* the pistol fired. It might reduce the sound of the shot and ensure a 'solid' hit.
Did you hear a gunshot?
No, all I heard was Hans screaming bloody murder, like he'd just been stabbed really forcefully with a very dull blade.
Ah, carry on then.
@@Dyre_Wolf I didn't say it was a good technique. 😁 This might be why the design isn't more common.
if this is a prototype, the knife is dull because proof of concept stage of prototype. if it was put into production, it would have gotten a proper sharp knife.
lol @ the editor for that BTTF joke 🤣
I appreciate the shirt.
I was hoping one of these videos would drop just before the movie came out but this is close enough :)
@@JonathanFergusonRoyalArmouriesvideo on Deadpool's Deagles please? 😊
@@elephaux5671 I'd love to but we don't have the modern Deagle to show. PSR has just dropped a video on them though :)
Are there any SOE weapons videos? I’d love for you to make a video with SOE weaponry if you haven’t already done so. This was a great video as always. I very much enjoy this channel, Jonathan is brilliant.
Looks like a giant Apache knuckle duster. Of course, Johnathan pulls one out as I get done leaving that comment, haha.
exactly what i was thinking, but couldn’t place the name
Always best to watch the entire video before chiming in.
Presumably being a prototype they wouldn't actually have a sharpened blade on it just an approximation to see if the mechanism works.
The Design Drawing (which unfortunately got left out of the video but see the new pinned comment) shows the exact same blade profile. Had this been mass-produced, the blade would have been similarly blunt. On the face of it, it's by design and more of a shiv than a blade!
Love the shirt 😮😂❤❤❤
Looks like a mini Boltok
Lol yes
All I can think looking at that rear sight is that they finally remembered 200 years later that the short and long land pattern infantry muskets only had front sights, and they wanted to achieve balance.
Fascinating! Were there any pre-war 9x19 revolvers?
None that I know of.
@@JonathanFergusonRoyalArmouries Thanks for the response, that makes this one all the more interesting!
there are some japenese revolvers pre ww2 that use the japense 9mm revolver cartridge, but i dont know about 9mm parabellum, and a quick google search doesnt result in anything other then lugers, which isnt a revolver
That is interesting, thanks!
What's the hole in the back for?
If not for the folding melee weapons, I'd wonder if this has some DNA from an attempt to make a production expedient handgun (what the Sten was to an SMG) since the S&W Carbine to Victory Revolver debacle shows the WW2 Brits really needed handguns. The remove cylinder to reload thing is a classic of the absolute cheapest revolvers (e.g., Rohm), smoothbore barrel shows up in a lot of pre-34 equivlents in cheapness, and the sheet steel receiver reminds me of the Jaeger pistol of WW1.
Excellent question - I would speculate a hole for adding lubricant and/or a drain hole for water but I don't know and there's no information on that.
your animated “subscribe” avatar bit always gets me 🤣
Good morning
Top o the mornin
Impressive
Literally the first thing that came to my mind was "Because things went fantastically well with the Apache, right?".
I think the "blade" is a stand off for the long barrel when pushed against a target so it doesn't pressurise the barrel and explode.
Considering that it is a revolver, unless it is one of the few revolvers with a sealing mechanism (moving the cylinder forward or the barrel backward), it will already have a pressure release from the frontal sides of the cylinder.
There is no issue with overpressure from a muzzle pressed into a body. The tissue is displaced on firing.
I thought it was a belt clip & unloading tool, (blunt tip and no edge to the blade)
@@williampratt1066 It may not be the ideal shape for a knife blade (although it could be reground in service) but it's an even less ideal shape to be some sort of unloading tool. It's too tight to the side of the weapon to function as a belt clip. It's directly analogous to the Apache design, where it's most definitely a knife blade. Why bother grinding it into a lenticular shape if it's not intended to be a knife?
@@JonathanFergusonRoyalArmouries ah the advantage of having the item in hand😉 a spike bayonet would have been a good idea then it could have been duel purpose.
Ps enjoyed the Bullpup book😊
I could see it being tucked in an emergency bailout bag for pilots
5:11 what a strange cut and wipe...
We had to go back...
Although the French criminal sub-culture was named after the Apache Native American tribe it's pronounced Ar-pash in French.
And it's a bit wild because the actual Apache people group never really called themselves that, The word is a corruption of the word for enemy, and not even in their own language in the language of the group that lived near them and called them the enemy. That's who the French explorers ran into first.
Perhaps this was intended to be dropped to resistance forces ala the Liberator? Small(ish), concealable, compatible with German ammo, cheap to manufacture. Though I would have thought if that was the case they would have just made the sheet metal revolver bit and not bothered with the folding knife and knuckleduster bits which must have added a lot of complication to the manufacture? People already had knives.
Awesome shirt!
Lets ask the users.Oh there weren't any. Love it 👍
Maybe an early attempt at a PDW? Made for the back pockets/clutch purses/what-have-you of cooks, mechanics and secretaries all over the Commonwealth?
I don't really think so, but it conjures some entertaining mental images.
Edit: that barrel is the final clue that this is not so much a handgun, and more of a hand-to-hand gun. You'll have to be within grappling range to hit someone.
Looks like a good piece for a kerfuffle.
Richard Wattis the actor was in SOE's weapon design department in ww2 i wonder if he ever worked on this kind of thing. War service interrupted his career as an actor.He served as a second lieutenant in the Small Arms Section of Special Operations Executive at Station VI during the Second World War (James Bond author Ian Fleming worked in the same section).[2]
Suggestion for a future video: can you interview your resident staff archaeometallurgist expert Dr. David Starley? I suspect he will have much to say about the evolution of metals for arms manufacture.
Ok, this is an object i was 100% sure did not exist, and this video, proving me wrong, has cost me $50 in a lost bet.
Jack of all trades skilled at none.
Perhaps it was intended to go into a survival kit for pilots or sailors, or maybe, like the Liberator, to be dropped to partisan forces? I believe the Liberator was made in 1942, so maybe that was seen as a better option?
Partisans never used things like this or the Liberator.
Clearly a rather more stout though much less stylish revival of the Dolne Apache. Jack-of-all-weapons designs are always extremely interesting and fun, but like other combination tools, struggle to perform any of their intended functions as well as single purpose versions. But I'd love to have one. Looks extremely fun to play around with. And I love weird firepower. 😛
Interesting to think that England thought of the Thompson submachine gun as a gangster gun.
When England apparently made the most gangster gun of all 🤣
ikr
the OG gangster gun to boot 🤣
Don't forget Churchill liked the Thompson SMG so much he kept one for himself. So when he said "We shall fight in the fields and in the streets" he was dead serious.
@@johnanon6938He probably thought “man, I wish I had this back in the Sudan.”
oh dear a revolver 9mm gun
That's pretty much one of the most common revolver calibers. 😊
@@Immopimmo yeah 357 🤣
@@DinnoPF 0r .38
It has a similar feel to the American Liberator pistol, maybe not as cheap and simple but the sort of thing you could drop to resistance forces.
No.
"Bayonet Revolver" sounds like a great anime
I get a very strong feeling given the date that this wasnt intended for SOE use but for air crew. The knuckle duster can function as an escape tool for smashing a glass canopy. The knife is your strap cutter and the revolver element is meant to replace a side arm. I would be tempted to take this in its folded format and see if it fits in a specific pocket on a heated flight suit. Bomber operations really ramped up by 42 and they would have seriously been looking at air crew equipment.
strap cutter seems a stretch with how difficult it seems to deploy, plus it would be a straight downgrade to a typical sidearm
@@sabotabby3372 You completely failed to read and understand anything I said. You are also missing the threaded barrel. That's for screw on flares.
The apache was what I was thinking when I saw the silhouette.
It's got a crown top bottle opener on it!😋
I'm guessing somebody just had the idea and thought maybe they'd make one and see if the SOE was interested.
I don't know what kind of policies and procedures there were though, whether enfield would have been allowed to just up and make something when SOE weapons weren't their job.
That would be nice to have in a backpack.
Covers all the bases for shtf backup weapon
The blade looks like the blade from a pair of scissors.
Just watched a Mark Felton video about Abwehr parachuters. They dropped with a small pistol and a 'round' tipped knife to cut out of harness if caught. They did not have a knuckle duster, though, which would only be useful in a highly aggressive open fight. (8:37 Did German paratroopers land in Britain? )
Writing error: Abwehr, not Abwher , this doesn' t exist .
@@brittakriep2938 Thanks for addressing the typo
@@TE4358g : Many english words contain a ,wh' , so accidently writing wher instead of wehr is understandable. I am german, Brittas boyfriend ( using her Computer too), i write comments either in german or english ( et très rare en francais), but sometimes the Computer doesn' t recognize the language, with strange results- similar, but wrong words appear. In case of Wehr, die Wehr is a dated word for weapon, especially a bladed one ( so the military context , also Feuerwehr/ firebrigade) and sich wehren means to defend yourself. But das Wehr is somethng quite different. A kind of small dyke with a small door, to open or close a small waterway for using water power. In german language the change of der, die or das sometimes changes the meaning of a word, can't explain this phenomeon.
@brittakriep2938 yes predictive text catches me sometimes. The etymology of words is interesting too.
Did hi-powers tend to be issued to more well trained, important troops like paratroopers and commandos or did they prefer 1911s? I'm wondering if the british leaned towards creating larger wound channels with their sidearms, or they desired more professionalism and precision using a cartridge closer in diameter to the enfields or the same as the stens. Or was there no preference?
I kind of assume the 1911s would be issued as sidearms to guys who would be more likely to use them more haphazardly
The commandos often preferred the 1911 over the issue Enfield Mk2 due to ammunition compatibility with their Thompsons
It was nothing to do with that it was down to supply chain and theatre.
If it wasn't a museum showpiece I would love to see Ian from Forgotten Weapons run a BUG match with it.
Johnathan. The 9mm Luger round locates/'headspaces' on the mouth of the case does it not? Just like all rimless 'auto' cartridges.
Moonclip?
bit bulky but cool design, a 4 barrel pepperbox or Howdah style would make it easier to reload and less bulky
Nah, as soon as I saw it and read WWII, I immediately thought, SOE. A special purpose weapon for some specific imagined use.
I imagine the blade was left blunt simple as a convenience while prototyping
I was thinking along the lines of the Liberator Pistol...and being 9mm a very common round in German weapons of the time
where can I find high res photos?
It was probably meant for resistance fighters as a covert handgun. The resistance would use it to eliminate lone enemy soldiers, then take their weapons and kit.
I’ve seen a few of those at gun shows and always thought it would be fun just to have but probably not a great edc but cool
I see the blade more as a design concept to show the potential of having a blade on a punchy pistol , more than as a blunt pig sticker.
He's knows so much about them because he was in the gang that used these
I’m honestly surprised that they even bothered with having that little pop up rear sight considering the thing is a smoothbore. It can’t have been accurate for shooting at anything farther away than a few meters an at that range you’re not going to be using sights anyways but just pointing and shooting.
SOE might be off it looks like something MI 6 would have in their inventory! seeing how it was a work in progress the bayonet may have been left blunt til the rest of the weapon was more developed!!
This is in the new mad Max film Furiousa.
How likely would it be for one of the more executive people at Enfield to be familiar with the French pistol, and using their influence to prototype their own version to pitch to SOE types? I could certainly imagine the type of guy that'd do that in that era.
Ha one for the Classic science fiction buffs: Alfred's Bester's Classic "The Demolished Man" had this as the murder weapon in a cyberpunk detective story, before cyberpunk was a thing (Also had the first fictional example of someone using a touchscreen tablet, so ner ner to the Trekkies and their PADDS.) Not bad for something that was written in the 1950s
I think the user is supposed to stab the blade into an enemy’s eye during close quarter fighting Jonathan. 😅 What an interesting piece of history.
Have a look at that, official issue Apache revolver.
Could this have been designed to equip the Auxiliary units of the Home Guard?
The French pistol-bayonet-knuckle duster is the only gun my brother knows by name.
Can't wait to see this in an Assassin's Creed game.
wonder what the benefit of this would be over a snub .38
Availability of 9x19mm ammunition (from German military stocks).
wow these are fascinating ... grab a brew time
Threaded for a silencer?
Isn't there a gap between cylinder and barrel? There the noise dissappeares!
If it's designed for, commandos, it could be called, a Comanche.
My thoughts as well!
i honestly feel this could be for resistance groups, a bit like the liberator pistols
stab, knock out or shoot someone, get a hold of their better weapon, and get out.
cheap, concealable, able to be used in frantic close quarters situations, as if you are ganging up on a few enemy soldiers.
and in an emergency it can be used and reloaded with german ammo, meaning if you get a hold of ammo but no gun, you can reuse it
this to me screams resistance
That is not how the resistance worked. That's also why the liberators ended up in landfill.
@@zoiders and might also be why they are prototypes and never went into production
Writing this while watching the pre-roll ad: That thing looks so damn uncomfortable 😂
y'all watch the ads?
looks like a weapon used to take someone else's weapon to use, like the american 1 shot pistol
Was it ever covered if it can first with the knife element extended?
Also curious if it was more common if the Germans captured them you think officers would have taken them as status symbols
Big john
❤
For all that weight, i think you'd be better off with a captured Walther and a Fairborn Sykes dagger. That contraption looks more likely to get its user killed than anything else.
It smacks a bit of the "Good Idea Fairy"...
There must be an interesting story of the thinking behind this which has been lost to time. It looks like a step backwards from the apache? Much less pocketable and elegant
Since you are holding the topstrap in the palm of your hand when you are using it as a knuckle duster any form of front sight might be painful.
I wonder if they chambered it in 9x19mm so it could be dropped to Partisans much like the Liberator, but be fed with MP40 ammunition?
And when there was only ammunition for P38 or P08? :-))
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