I was reminded the other day while talking to a high school friend about the look and feel of the IBM Selectric keyboard keys. When i was in school during the 80's the class was called Typing. When my younger brother took the course, it was called "Keyboarding."
Love the 80s setup you have! Reminds me of my dads 80s commodore 64 with his GI Joe lunchbox, It really shows how far your channel has grown and im excited to see more videos in the future!
I love that you are one of the most wholesome retro tech tubers out there. "this is my new set, my daughter designed it" is just so...wholesome proud dad moment. Like, if LGR is Bob Ross, Technology Connections is Nova...you're Mr. Rogers, in the absolute best way.
I am going to be looking into building a mechanical and backlit ergonomic keyboard. What you have provided here gives me a great jumping-off point. Thanks!
The only thing that I would add (for my own personal preference) would be doing a "tape mod" to add that deeper sound. Other than that, you pretty much just put together the exact custom keyboard that would make for myself
I know this comment is a year late, especially considering the keyboard is already built and you've most likely been using it for some time already, but I would like to add a suggestion, for a possible modification,based on my own experience, since you mentioned that you enjoyed the clicky sound and tactile feel of white alps and was picking switches based on what felt similar. As you probably already know, Alps switches derive both their clicks and tactile bump from the use of a metal click leaf which strikes against inside of the switch itself, producing a very distinct and snappy sound and feel, which you don't really get with most other MX-switches. MX switches tend to get their clicky sound from a plastic click jacket which sort of rattles around when you press the key and the tactile "event" comes from a plastic bump, making the clickiness sound rattly and the tactility feel a bit mushy. Now obviously this has been improved in a lot of clones and there have been some innovation in the field, like the addition of a spring tensioned click bar to provide that sound and tactility and they're a solid replacement, if not quite there in my honest opinion. There's always the option of sourcing actual Alps switches, but they're ridiculously expensive, require different mounting points on a PCB and severely limits your options when it comes to keycaps. There are some old hybrid switches, but they're even harder to find. I went through the same rabbit hole that you did about a year and a half ago. Unfortunately, or maybe fortunately, I didn't have the funds at hand to splurge on a switch sampler, so I spent a lot of time looking at graphs and talked to other enthusiasts. I ended up stumbling upon "Zeal Clickiez" and it turned out to be exactly what I was looking for. Their clickiez are MX-compatible so I can use the keycaps I want and they also have that metal click leaf which provides that very enjoyable click and makes the tactile feel so much more distinct than anything I've felt with most MX-clones. Incidentally, the keyboard I used came with Cherry MX browns and there is a world of difference between the two switches. They're not the cheapest switches on the market, though far from the most expensive either and they come in packs of 10, my only regret is getting the 75G instead of the 40G, since they ended up being somewhat on the heavier side, though still very much enjoyable to type on. By far the closest experience to the old Alps switches that I have found. I also went with MT3 keycaps. A note about the keycaps by the way, Matt3o recently released a line of mid-profile vintage style keycaps which he calls MTNU, they might be interesting to test out. Thanks for a fantastic video!
@Retro Hack Shack You mentioned creating a custom PCB for vintage keyboards. Well, I've already completed a base PCB design for the Atari 400/800/XL series. This procedure here is an avenue that I did consider, but I really wanted to avoid any adaptation or conversions to simplify the overall design and increase compatibility with each bespoke system. More to come in the future! Great video as always, Aaron!
FYI: That tighter cap fit you noticed has led to some cap stems coming-off when removed with those wire cap pullers, but the plastic ring-pull kind has not caused the same problems. This is because the wire pullers inevitably twist the keycap to greater or lesser degree, but the plastic kind is purely linear by grabbing the edges. You’re probably not going to be swapping caps regularly, but since you noticed them being tight, I figured I should mention it. Kailh makes to the original MX spec, but many modern keycap tolerances are designed around the slightly worn-out Cherry tooling. That leads to the edges of each tolerance colliding, and a very tight fit. Though if you’re not regularly removing caps that’s probably better, as they sure won’t fall off!
You could get a really quality keyboard for that amount of money, I must admit though these keyboards are very nice to use. Your attention to detail is amazing, great video as usual 😊
@@RetroHackShack I’m looking for an intel inboard since years, don’t have access to the recycling places you do. Would you please sell me one if you find any. Even if it’s another brand (as long as it’s an 8bit accelerator to 386 processor) thanks in advance!
I like the combination of inexpensive base keyboard to start with and then going with switches and key caps you prefer. Your choices are also excellent. I did not know that the some keyboards had switches that could be removed as easily as the caps. I figured they were soldered in just like the mechboard I built. Too bad the keyboard manufacturers have dropped support for the PS/2 protocol. Having that really makes sense for a retro keyboard.
I am sure something could be rigged up with an Arduino or better yet a Teensy
Рік тому
If you want a similarly sculpted keycap to SA, but lower profile, then DSA is also a solid choice. I love those. But those caps are really nice. I don't personally like the plastic keycap pullers, because I find they can gouge the plastics in the keycaps if they slip, at least on wider keys like tab, enter and spacebar. My spacebar has a long unappealing scratch across it :(
If you look at the original brown Commodore 64 keys, you will see they are both double-shot (main key letters) and dye-sub (Colour/PETSCII characters )
I find it really interesting that you preferred Box White as an Alps White replacement. White Alps are one of my favourite too, yet I prefer Box Jade :) But that’s exactly the value in a sample pack!
@@RetroHackShack they’re very similar, white pink and jade all use the same spring. Only difference is click bar thickness, so also the strength of the tactile bump. I didn’t try them side by side with my Alps boards, so maybe jade is stronger than Alps white! In isolation I just prefer the strong tactile bump, even pink (stronger than white, weaker than jade) feels a little bit too weak in tactility for my liking. It’s also possible the click leaf in your white Alps is on the softer side, I’ve got “complex” ones from the mid-80s and “simplified” ones from the 00s, the latter has a “sharper” edge on its tactile bump but also less of a thonk. I’m sure there were subtle manufacturing tolerances affecting the click leaf thickness between batches too!
Maybe the 100gr keys are for people the have as I call it fat fingers and accidently press more then one key at a time. I do this quite often and need to backspace too much. a much lighter key press can result in this happening. I would also just take a photo of the keyboard so I know how to place them back into the keyboard.
I had one of those logitech keyboards - easily the worst keyboard I have ever had in 30 years and put me off ever buying logitech again. Same issue with plastic breaking and dust getting in to the switches leading to duplicated/bounced key-presses. Steelseries has been much better :)
This mechanical customizable keyboard thing is rather new to me. I've used various computers since I was a kid in the late 80s, and keyboards was never something I thought much about. I just made do with what I had, and it was fine. While the customization options seem great, the ability to test and compare seems like a big issue, and that the parts are overall quite expensive. Also, this trend seems awfully wasteful, as there will be a lot more keycaps and key switches than actual keyboards. And, as a shop owner, it seems likely to end up with a bunch of parts that not enough people are interested in. There's no value left in unpopular lose parts that has no function on their own. The more options available, the bigger this problem gets. If this was a really niche thing, I think that would be okay, but my impression is that these things have taken off a bit. It all seems a bit snobby, to be honest.
I'd have said the same thing, but the thing is that at a certain point cheap keyboards became really crap (one I bought a couple of years ago for my dad already has lost most of the legends, which never happened with my old 90s rubber domes), most mech keyboards in shop looked extremely stupid ("gamer" stupid to be precise) and original Cherry switches while serviceable (I'm typing on a cherry brown board right now) and having a stranglehold on the market are not quite as good as one might wish (their linears can be scratchy, their tactile inconsistent and their clicky don't sound as nice as old Alps and buckling springs). So many smaller manifacturers started making hot-swappable boards or assembly kits so one could just order on-line the switches they liked and the keycaps is just a side effect of MX keycaps being much easier to swap than on cheap keyboards. In particular this has given the impulse for example to try and improve the switch designs instead of just cloning cherries, the Kailh box white switches are a prime example as their internals are very different from cherry swtiches and their click mechanism sounds and feels much better.
I was reminded the other day while talking to a high school friend about the look and feel of the IBM Selectric keyboard keys. When i was in school during the 80's the class was called Typing. When my younger brother took the course, it was called "Keyboarding."
Yeah. They don't even teach typing in my kids schools any more.
Love the 80s setup you have! Reminds me of my dads 80s commodore 64 with his GI Joe lunchbox, It really shows how far your channel has grown and im excited to see more videos in the future!
Thanks!
I really liked the keyboard clicky transitions in this. It's a small detail, but it stood out to me.
Thanks for noticing that!
I love that you are one of the most wholesome retro tech tubers out there. "this is my new set, my daughter designed it" is just so...wholesome proud dad moment.
Like, if LGR is Bob Ross, Technology Connections is Nova...you're Mr. Rogers, in the absolute best way.
Mr. Rogers was an amazing person! That compliment is too big for me, but I thank you for the gracious comparison. 🙏
I worked at a software house that was all IBM. We had IBM PCs and I loved the keyboards. Even used OS/2 warp. Those were the days!
I am going to be looking into building a mechanical and backlit ergonomic keyboard. What you have provided here gives me a great jumping-off point. Thanks!
The only thing that I would add (for my own personal preference) would be doing a "tape mod" to add that deeper sound. Other than that, you pretty much just put together the exact custom keyboard that would make for myself
the set looks wonderful, it actually reminds of my childhood in the nineties in new zealand because we're always a decade behind the times 🤣
Ha. Thanks!
I know this comment is a year late, especially considering the keyboard is already built and you've most likely been using it for some time already, but I would like to add a suggestion, for a possible modification,based on my own experience, since you mentioned that you enjoyed the clicky sound and tactile feel of white alps and was picking switches based on what felt similar.
As you probably already know, Alps switches derive both their clicks and tactile bump from the use of a metal click leaf which strikes against inside of the switch itself, producing a very distinct and snappy sound and feel, which you don't really get with most other MX-switches. MX switches tend to get their clicky sound from a plastic click jacket which sort of rattles around when you press the key and the tactile "event" comes from a plastic bump, making the clickiness sound rattly and the tactility feel a bit mushy. Now obviously this has been improved in a lot of clones and there have been some innovation in the field, like the addition of a spring tensioned click bar to provide that sound and tactility and they're a solid replacement, if not quite there in my honest opinion.
There's always the option of sourcing actual Alps switches, but they're ridiculously expensive, require different mounting points on a PCB and severely limits your options when it comes to keycaps. There are some old hybrid switches, but they're even harder to find.
I went through the same rabbit hole that you did about a year and a half ago. Unfortunately, or maybe fortunately, I didn't have the funds at hand to splurge on a switch sampler, so I spent a lot of time looking at graphs and talked to other enthusiasts. I ended up stumbling upon "Zeal Clickiez" and it turned out to be exactly what I was looking for. Their clickiez are MX-compatible so I can use the keycaps I want and they also have that metal click leaf which provides that very enjoyable click and makes the tactile feel so much more distinct than anything I've felt with most MX-clones. Incidentally, the keyboard I used came with Cherry MX browns and there is a world of difference between the two switches. They're not the cheapest switches on the market, though far from the most expensive either and they come in packs of 10, my only regret is getting the 75G instead of the 40G, since they ended up being somewhat on the heavier side, though still very much enjoyable to type on. By far the closest experience to the old Alps switches that I have found. I also went with MT3 keycaps.
A note about the keycaps by the way, Matt3o recently released a line of mid-profile vintage style keycaps which he calls MTNU, they might be interesting to test out.
Thanks for a fantastic video!
Well done!
@Retro Hack Shack You mentioned creating a custom PCB for vintage keyboards. Well, I've already completed a base PCB design for the Atari 400/800/XL series. This procedure here is an avenue that I did consider, but I really wanted to avoid any adaptation or conversions to simplify the overall design and increase compatibility with each bespoke system. More to come in the future! Great video as always, Aaron!
Nice!
Set looks fantastic!
Cool. Thanks!
I like the 80s set!
Very tasteful background, I especially like the colors
Thanks
FYI: That tighter cap fit you noticed has led to some cap stems coming-off when removed with those wire cap pullers, but the plastic ring-pull kind has not caused the same problems. This is because the wire pullers inevitably twist the keycap to greater or lesser degree, but the plastic kind is purely linear by grabbing the edges.
You’re probably not going to be swapping caps regularly, but since you noticed them being tight, I figured I should mention it. Kailh makes to the original MX spec, but many modern keycap tolerances are designed around the slightly worn-out Cherry tooling. That leads to the edges of each tolerance colliding, and a very tight fit. Though if you’re not regularly removing caps that’s probably better, as they sure won’t fall off!
You could get a really quality keyboard for that amount of money, I must admit though these keyboards are very nice to use. Your attention to detail is amazing, great video as usual 😊
Thanks!
@@RetroHackShack I’m looking for an intel inboard since years, don’t have access to the recycling places you do. Would you please sell me one if you find any. Even if it’s another brand (as long as it’s an 8bit accelerator to 386 processor) thanks in advance!
Eventually I need to get stuff added to my eBay store. You could watch there in case I find one.
@@RetroHackShack thanks will do
I like the combination of inexpensive base keyboard to start with and then going with switches and key caps you prefer. Your choices are also excellent. I did not know that the some keyboards had switches that could be removed as easily as the caps. I figured they were soldered in just like the mechboard I built. Too bad the keyboard manufacturers have dropped support for the PS/2 protocol. Having that really makes sense for a retro keyboard.
Thanks! I must say I do like the convenience of the USB C though.
It is possible to have both, although not found so much these days.
I am sure something could be rigged up with an Arduino or better yet a Teensy
If you want a similarly sculpted keycap to SA, but lower profile, then DSA is also a solid choice. I love those. But those caps are really nice.
I don't personally like the plastic keycap pullers, because I find they can gouge the plastics in the keycaps if they slip, at least on wider keys like tab, enter and spacebar. My spacebar has a long unappealing scratch across it :(
If you look at the original brown Commodore 64 keys, you will see they are both double-shot (main key letters) and dye-sub (Colour/PETSCII characters )
Ah. Good point 👍
I find it really interesting that you preferred Box White as an Alps White replacement. White Alps are one of my favourite too, yet I prefer Box Jade :) But that’s exactly the value in a sample pack!
The box jade were close.
@@RetroHackShack they’re very similar, white pink and jade all use the same spring. Only difference is click bar thickness, so also the strength of the tactile bump.
I didn’t try them side by side with my Alps boards, so maybe jade is stronger than Alps white! In isolation I just prefer the strong tactile bump, even pink (stronger than white, weaker than jade) feels a little bit too weak in tactility for my liking.
It’s also possible the click leaf in your white Alps is on the softer side, I’ve got “complex” ones from the mid-80s and “simplified” ones from the 00s, the latter has a “sharper” edge on its tactile bump but also less of a thonk. I’m sure there were subtle manufacturing tolerances affecting the click leaf thickness between batches too!
Took me a month to get used to my Appple Magic Keyboard when I got it. I wonder how long it'll really take you to get use toi that one?
I can't stand that magic keyboard! This one was like coming home 😃 Works great for gaming too!
Maybe the 100gr keys are for people the have as I call it fat fingers and accidently press more then one key at a time. I do this quite often and need to backspace too much. a much lighter key press can result in this happening. I would also just take a photo of the keyboard so I know how to place them back into the keyboard.
I really hope that the keyborad you built is satisfactory, because custom keyboards are a rabbit hole you don't want to fall into.
So far so good
Looks great. Is it white or beige? Hard to tell in the video.
Light beige 🙂 The new keys are a little lighter in color, but not too much.
@@RetroHackShack perfect then!
Nice video and your daughter have make a beautifull background
Who is 'Matt 30' that you mentioned?
I don't know his real name, but he designs keycaps.
I had one of those logitech keyboards - easily the worst keyboard I have ever had in 30 years and put me off ever buying logitech again. Same issue with plastic breaking and dust getting in to the switches leading to duplicated/bounced key-presses. Steelseries has been much better :)
Does steelseries have hot swappable key switches? It has been a while since I looked at one of their keyboards.
im using my ibm model m to type this comment
Nice
This mechanical customizable keyboard thing is rather new to me. I've used various computers since I was a kid in the late 80s, and keyboards was never something I thought much about. I just made do with what I had, and it was fine. While the customization options seem great, the ability to test and compare seems like a big issue, and that the parts are overall quite expensive. Also, this trend seems awfully wasteful, as there will be a lot more keycaps and key switches than actual keyboards. And, as a shop owner, it seems likely to end up with a bunch of parts that not enough people are interested in. There's no value left in unpopular lose parts that has no function on their own. The more options available, the bigger this problem gets. If this was a really niche thing, I think that would be okay, but my impression is that these things have taken off a bit. It all seems a bit snobby, to be honest.
I'd have said the same thing, but the thing is that at a certain point cheap keyboards became really crap (one I bought a couple of years ago for my dad already has lost most of the legends, which never happened with my old 90s rubber domes), most mech keyboards in shop looked extremely stupid ("gamer" stupid to be precise) and original Cherry switches while serviceable (I'm typing on a cherry brown board right now) and having a stranglehold on the market are not quite as good as one might wish (their linears can be scratchy, their tactile inconsistent and their clicky don't sound as nice as old Alps and buckling springs).
So many smaller manifacturers started making hot-swappable boards or assembly kits so one could just order on-line the switches they liked and the keycaps is just a side effect of MX keycaps being much easier to swap than on cheap keyboards. In particular this has given the impulse for example to try and improve the switch designs instead of just cloning cherries, the Kailh box white switches are a prime example as their internals are very different from cherry swtiches and their click mechanism sounds and feels much better.