Sabre Jet engine back after 10 years
Вставка
- Опубліковано 26 вер 2024
- An Orenda 14 turbojet that was the first engine I ever ran in our test cell was sent to us for a fuel system overhaul. All components of the fuel system were rebuilt to new condition or they were replaced with new parts. The hot section was also inspected for wear or damage. None was found.
This is the acceptance run in June 2023.
This is the same engine as featured in my August 2013 video "Sabre Jet Engine first start"
the link to it is here: • Sabre Jet Engine: fir...
"Voltagization" - I'm taking that word. 😂
Missed u I am a layman learnt a lot from ur videos about turbines thank you
hope all is well Jay. looking forward to the next video! appreciate the content from Australia. cheers mate
New subscriber here, Jay. Technical videos with easy to understand explanations, and a splash of humor really ease my ADHD. It's a shame you don't do more videos but looks like you have a bunch of them to keep me occupied for a while. Hopefully you'll have a new one by the time I catch up. Your no nonsense presentations are outstanding. The deadpan humor is the icing on the cake!
Several years ago, I held a contest to mark my 500th video.
For years, I made one per week.
I have slowed down, but the subjects covered have no expiry date.
Have a look at my channel page for a playlist called You Questions Answered...
@@AgentJayZ your work is amazing man...
Excellent demo.
Another great engine restored for posterity! Thanks for sharing this with us, including your Patreon posts. Canada Day!
DD
Good to see a new video from you, Jay. Even better that it’s a return customer.
Imagine you're a couple miles out on a long final, you accidentally pull it back to ground idle, the runway starts creeping up the canopy, you start sinking and the airspeed begins to decay, you slam the throttle forward......and you continue to sink.
That is a very common story from the 1950s, when airlines were moving from the big, torquey piston engines that had near instant throttle response, to the jets, which had more power... but you had to wait for it if you let the revs get too low.
Jet engines are a marvel of engineering Thank you for sharing that
So this particular jet engine spools up to just under 8,000 RPM, which is truly remarkable for such a large piece of machinery. Now I have to watch how something like this is balanced, especially over such a long shaft.
As the tech went to full power, there was a repeating whoosh sound and the rpms looked like they cycled between 7600 to 7900 rpm. I gather that's not a concern?
If you watch the temps, there is very little change. The two fuel pumps both govern each other, and the testing section of the manual states that this transient variation is to be expected, and stabilizes within ten seconds.
I truly was surprised when the EGT went above start-up EGT when at full throttle. Another surprise was the turbine lag from ground idle to max throttle. I could have gotten two beers and a hot dog from the fridge before she stabilized.
I think the excess fuel was blown past the thermocouples before it caught fire. The start was actually very civilized. The engine is limited by both rpm and temp at max, and yes, the egt was nowhere near the upper limit.
That means the jet nozzle can be adjusted to make more thrust. We were using our own jet nozzle, not the one out of the aircraft this engine is destined for.
I love your videos you have the coolest career❤
1st to the #76 safety wire - overpressure assembly .. tnx
very very cool.
Put that into your river boat.
Wow!
What a beaut!
Come down to Toronto for the Labour day long weekend airshow.. All expenses paid if you can handle a single waterbed and like bacon and eggs. ;)
Only if you come meet up in Oshkosh during the last week in July... that's a 5 day ride for me!
I apologize if this is an FAQ. But, I don’t recall hearing you talk about it… Do you use different fuel nozzles for different fuels on the same engine i.e. jet fuel vs LPG. Or are the fuel nozzles designed to dump anything passed through them and the combustion chamber compensates?
Got a series called Jet Fuel Nozzles...
@@AgentJayZ are there ones for kerosene
Tim, I guess you have not watched the series. There a liquid fuels, and there are gaseous fuels.
The liquids are gasoline, diesel, kerosene, Jet A, and basically any flammable liquid. They can all be used with the same fuel nozzle.
The gaseous fuels are hydrogen, natural gas, propane, methane, and any flammable gas. They could all be used with the same nozzle.
@@AgentJayZ Again, I apologize for this apparently being an FAQ. I searched your past videos for “Fuel Nozzles” and did come across the ones you referenced, recorded 13 years ago. I need to go back and view them.
@@AgentJayZ what happens if someone wants a Pratt & Whitney JT8D converted to diesel and a genset and do you have one
1st and watching
Spec sheet warrior .......hahahaha.....damn i love it so.
I don't see any hose connected for an air starter. Does it have an electric starter then? I think we see a glimpse of a diesel powered generator outside the test cell which I guess is used for the starter.
Yes, the Orenda 14 has a big electric starter inside that nose fairing.
At full power, it oscillates back and forth. Wouldn't that make it difficult to use? Maybe an electronic limiter?
The testing section of the manual says that this is normal, and the effect will go away within 5 or 6 oscillations... like it does here.
Jay, why does the RPM fluctuate after it ramps up around 7500 to 79000 when your colleague rapidly pushes the stick forward?
Is it due to fuel pressure variation until it gets stable?
It's due to the interaction of the fuel pump governors, and it's normal for the first few seconds after a throttle burst. This is the most extreme test, and most pilots use smoother inputs... most of the time.
@@AgentJayZ Appreciated Jay!! Thank you for your info.
Ah, first I thought the title referred to the Sabre engine like Skylon haha
Your mistake. You confused Sabre jet with the (proposed) Synergetic Air Breathing Rocket Engine.
That is an ambitious design that has never run, and not even been built.
sorry if I offended you, it was not my intent. I was subbed to you before this video if that makes me less of a threat @@AgentJayZ
At least I looked it up. My comment was not meant to be mean.
No worries. The Skylon will never be built, and the S.A.B.R.E. will never run.
The purpose of the project was single stage to orbit, and to bring down the cost of reaching escape velocity.
Those goals have been achieved and surpassed by private corporations in the past few years.
@@AgentJayZ im pretty sure it will run
Good for you! The thing has not even been built, but your confidence is my guarantee.
I will bet you that it will not run by July 1 (Canada Day) 2027. My wager is 100.00USD.
I'm good for it. Get back to me. If I win, I expect nothing in return, so really, you can't lose!
Why is the RPM readout fluctuating that much when you throttle up or down?
It's the nature of the physical properties of the sensor. The aircraft uses a tach-generator, which reads out in percent.
We replace that with a magnetic pulse detector on a small toothed wheel. It's a bit like a guitar pickup. It's finicky, but the readout is in electrical pulses, and our computer turns that into a readout of actual rpm.
AgentJayZ do you think that the Blisk technology will ever overtake the old tried and true Blade,Fur tree design with the new 3D Printers creating metal parts? ~Ricvis
For a turbine, replacing a blade is the same amount of work as replacing a whole stage in the form of a blisk. For a compressor, many models feature a mounting system that makes it much easier to change a single blade as opposed to a stage, disk or blisk.
The blisk was developed as a way to reduce the parts count, not necessarily as a way to save money.
It's an idea that works in small axial flow engines, but I don't think it will ever be used for larger engines.
@@AgentJayZ I saw blisks for small turboshafts being machined by copy-milling, several at a time, 60 years ago.
The E200 engine has an all-blisk fan, and blisks in its HP compressor.. I wouldn't describe it as a small engine, at 13,000lb thrust dry and 20,000lb in reheat (not afterburning).
Some, if not all of the Trent engine series, have blisks in their HP compressors. Again, they're not small engines.
Thanks. I did not know that. There must be an advantage to the system, or it would not be used. So do YOU think the use of blisks will increase in the future?
@@AgentJayZ I believe it is already an accepted technology in the latest engines. So what is the advantage? Primarily weight saving.
If you think about it, to create a connection between a firtree (or dovetail) blade root and the rim of a disc must require additional material, relative to an aerofoil with its 'root' integral with the rim. Save weight at the rim of the disc and the whole disc can be that much lighter.
PS We were designing blisks before I retired twenty years ago. Blings should be well on the way by now.
Heya man. I don't know if you got the word about @MikePatey having a catastrophic failure on his Pratt & Whitney Canada PT6 engine lately.. Maybe please look up his video about that.
I had to think about you and actually come back to your video about engine "hot start" procedures, which he mentioned too..
But to make things short, i know it's not the main type of engine you deal with.. but i hope you might have some interesting insights on that failed engine, given that you get access to the remains of it an attempt a bit of a forensically analysis on it.
Well, at least i think and hope, that you might help a bit to find out, why this engine failed in _that_ catastrophic manner. ;)
I'll look into it after I return from Oshkosh, happening today to july 30.
Maybe I'll see Mike there.
@@AgentJayZ I'm pretty sure you will see him there.... Turbulence was on the way to Oshkosh when it happened. ;)
Sadly just, turbulence won't be there. ;)
Thanks for that Hackbyte!! I wanted to ask the same question. This is so unusual, from what little I know.
@@AgentJayZ +1 on that one, I'd sure like to hear your take as well. Mike says 'never hot started'. I don't see how you can explode those blades like that. Maybe a part defect that went undetected from the normal tests ? If anyone knows it would be AJZ. Have fun and a safe trip out to Oshkosh. Riding the bike again? I miss my K100. Safe travels...
@@AgentJayZ ua-cam.com/video/pgpf5ktKVBc/v-deo.html
speaking of Orenda's, any advance on the Iroquois engine from the arrow?
Unfortunately all I can say is that it is safely stored indoors.
I noticed at full throttle that the thrust values fluctuated up an down , what causes that?
As indicated by the noise that literally shakes the building, testing a jet engine at max power is a violent process. That's the only explanation I can give.
Curious about the pulsing on the test stand during the max thrust throttle - is that the automatic fuel management trying to protect the engine egt?
Addendum reading other comments - self governing fuel pumps...makes sense.
Top marks! Many people are unable to read the comments or the description. Thank you for being curious and motivated.
With reference to wikipedia, it says the Sabre engine had 5900 lbs of thrust, but here you demonstrate 7000+. Does this engine have more modern parts or fuel? Or is wikipedia incorrect?
There were a few different engines used in Various license built versions of the Sabre Jet.
The American GE J47 was used in American Sabres, and it made around 5000 lbs of thrust.
The Canadian Sabre 5 used the Orenda 10, which made about 6600 lbs of therust, and the Sabre 6 used the Orenda 14, which made 7200 lbs of thrust.
The Australian Sabre used the RR Avon, making over 7500 lbs of thrust.
The engine in this video is an Orenda 14, out of a Canadair Sabre 6.
Many books and a few museums mention a version of the J47 that used an afterburner to produce over 9000 lbs of thrust. I have never seen or even heard of documentation of such an engine, but I would love to learn about it if it existed.
EDIT: after some poking around, I learned of the F-86H, and the J73-GE-3 engine that powered it with 9200 lbs of thrust.
What is the BSFC of this engine g/kn. my calculations it makes 32.1kn of thrust. Didn't think you still use pounds in Canada?
We use the system of measurement that the original design documents use. This engine was designed in the US during the 1950s and updated throughout the 1960s.
A smart guy like you should be able to guess the units.
SFC is readily available for different variants on the GE website, and on WIki.
Did I really need to steer you there?
@@AgentJayZ I've seen a lot of BSFC numbers but they are often different or stated at a percentage of power. Just thought you would have a fuel flow meter when you conduct the test. Wikipedia has so many mistakes on it, I rarely use it now. I tried correcting mistakes about hughes helicopters, but the original author stated that janes aircraft was a better source than the hughes (MD) company. Thanks.
@@AgentJayZ A lot of the engine specs on wikipedia state what the engine is rated to, not what it actually produces in the specific aircraft it is in. There are videos of professionals and others stating for example that the MD530F has 650SHP, but it does not, that is what the engine is rated to. In the helicopter its max power is only 375shp, but people believe wikipedia. It is the same for so many specs I have found.
You do seem like a well educated commenter.
We do not measure fuel consumption, because it is not required in the testing procedures.
However according to these guys "www.jet-engine.net/miltfspec.htm", in their huge table of engines, they list the Orenda 14 as having a fuel consumption of 0.9 lbs of fuel per hour per lb of thrust.
This is about right for a simple turbojet.
Took me less than 10 minutes to find that.
@@AgentJayZ Thanks for your time and replies. It's just seeing fuel flow in real time along side the power/thrust output I find is more reliable. Thanks again. I have used that site as a reference.
so here's a question with the start.... why does the EGT go so high on start and then come back down when it's running? im assuming it's a function of the amount of airflow through the engine out the tail pipe ?
A few months ago, I made a video about exactly that subject. It's called the Turbojet Start Sequence.
@@AgentJayZ ok cool. thnx. keep up the vids
Has it been that long since I misidentified a Sabre 6 (CL-13?) as an F-86?
A few CL-13s are flying around painted up as F-86Fs...
Beautiful aircraft!
@@AgentJayZ It is, I’d love to see an Orenda at work in person
what kind of planes are engines like this used for?
The Orenda 14 is used in the Sabre Jet.
The Canadair CL-13 Sabre is a license built version of the F-86F Sabre.
In cardiology, intermittent electric faults are hard to diagnose.
Way back in my studies, I read that any heart beat was slightly erratic. A definite average bpm, but with microscopic differences in timing, beat to beat. If the frequency ever became perfectly timed, like a mechanical or electronic metronome... with zero variation from beat to beat... that was a very bad sign.
@@AgentJayZ Dysrrhythmias such as paroxysmal superventricular tachycardia, paroxysmal atrial fibrillation and various other occasional abnormal heart rhythms can be a devil to track down.
We used to use a 48 hour event monitor, now we have 14 day ones and my wife has a loop recorded implanted that downloads to a bedside smart phone device nightly.
She's had a successful ablation for PSVT, but chemotherapy has now induced paroxysmal A-Fib and may require a different type of ablation.
It makes jet engine electronics seem much easier and more definitive to fix.
I agree. Awhile ago a cardiac surgeon said that he and I did similar work. I respectfully disagreed.
Sometimes I might get impressed with myself, but I always try to remember there are skills and knowledge far exceeding my ability to grasp or even imagine.
@@AgentJayZ To make you feel better, your fixes are often better.
You have a great channel. I love it.
Thank you
whar about a video on Junkers Jumo 004B-1
... to quote the gun shop owner in T1: "hey, just what you see, pal"
@@AgentJayZ its a jet engine
Thank you captain obvious.
The Jumo is not in service anywhere, and what I meant by my answer is that I can only make videos about the stuff I work on. I thought you would get that reference, but I have failed again.
@@TimSmith-vl4qk I believe that there is an original Me262 undergoing restoration in the States, with the intention of flying it with Jumo 004 engines, which I fervently hope will be more reliable than the original WWII engines.
They were notoriously unreliable, lasting no more than 25hrs, with a part-life overhaul at 10hrs. Their handling was also abysmal, as any rapid throttle movement could cause a surge and a flameout. That's why they had to climb on a fixed throttle setting to engage the B-17s.
There are also four airworthy Me262 replicas flying, one of which is supposed to be performing here in the UK at RIAT (Royal International Air Tattoo). RAF Fairford, on 14th, 15th, 16th July. Fortunately, it is powered by GE CJ610 engines.
I'm ashamed of the RIAT publicity for the Me262. It states that the Me262 was the first jet fighter to reach operational service in April 1944. This is widely quoted, even in the UK, but is incorrect. The Me262 may have been operating with a trials unit from that date, but it was not released to operational service for combat until September or October of 1944.
So what was the first jet fighter genuinely to enter operational service? The Gloster Meteor went into RAF service with 616 Squadron in July 1944, and was credited with destroying 14 V-1 'doodlebugs', the first being downed on 4th August.
I always appreciate your comments, Graham. I like to think I know a thing or two, but I always learn from reading your contributions.
can a Sabre Jet engine run on Wood-Gas
The basic combustion section of any gas turbine can be made to run on any flammable material. Liquids, gases, or even dusts made out of solid combustible materials.
Obviously the fuel system needs to be created that will handle such materials.
So, can an engine taken directly out of a fighter jet run on gaseous fuel? No.
But it would not be difficult to replace the fuel system with one that would allow it to do so.
My video previous to this one features an Orenda running on gaseous propane.
@@AgentJayZ WOOD GAS IS SIMLER TO PROPANE
@@AgentJayZ have you worked on a Bristol Siddley Proteus engine
Not yet.
@@AgentJayZ could a genset jet engine run on coal dust
Hello from Greece as you can see I was looking at your wall with flags and I wanted to know why the Greek flag right on top just asking
Friends send me flags. I put them on the wall.
😂
Love the sound.
Meanwhile, Left Coast liberals in the US would ask: a) when will these methods of power transition to carbon-neutral, and b) when will they purr like my cat?
Never. You don't like the pollution of jet fighter engines? Then create a world where jet fighters are not necessary.
Also, this is a 1950's design, for collectors of vintage aircraft, so completely not relevant in any way.
2920
Could be my favorite engine. First one I built, and first one I ran as the operator.
This video is going to have 10m views after 5 years
That would be great. The first test run vid of this exact engine has 3.3 million views after 10 years...
It's been a while but and did not loose faith.. great test and thanks for sharing :-)
What is this liquid, dripping from the back and from the middle at startup 4:08?
As explained in the video, it's fuel from a previous, unsuccessful start attempt.
From "How to start a jet engine": "... and we don't like bangs! Thanks for watchin'!"
Us long-time viewers finally got to see a "bang"!
I know I say this on every test cell run you post, but I can watch these runs all day! Thanks for sharing!